@bgr YOWZA you one smart cookie foooo sure... In the pokemon example as long as one doesn't try to tie down specific production numbers can AI ascertain whether more pokemon cards were sold based on a combination of numerical pokemon numbers and qualitative opinions out there?
Maybe in the future the best AI alive will use a "FUDGE" factor to explain how $20 becomes $47 ... We can average our fudge factors maybe?
@BJY83 said:
Nope. I'm done with them. If I like a graded card, I'll buy it but I'm more than happy putting together nmmt raw vintage sets. They don't need my money and I don't need to contribute to a company who treats their customers like garbage.
Then Why are u in a PSA forum ? Lol
So I can only communicate with friends on a forum that I've been on for over 20 years if I agree with how their new ownership is running the company?
@71waxforever said:
Wouldn't PSA graded commons now go up in price. Just saying they would be carried along with the grade to a higher level now. Of course, there's a chance you're taking.
Isn't it more likely that graded commons would drop in price if it becomes unlikely anyone will be completing registry sets or if the registry dies?
Why is everyone looking for an excuse to make this stuff more expensive? The entire reason this is happening is because people are valuing slabbed cards too highly. If PSA thought they were kicking you in the nuts at 10-15 bucks they wouldn't raise the price. But they see everyone selling slabbed cards at huge multiples of what raw cards are selling for and start to think they're shot is off target.
People seem to be still be avidly collecting sets. Prices for higher grade commons are higher than ever before and competition is fierce. When you have a finite supply, prices tend to increase. I'm not sure how long this will last, but it's been that way for the past couple of years now at least for the 70s sets I track.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I would expect that SGC and BVG were purchased for assets only. They were most likely not succeeding. When mergers take place like this the value is in the assets and people only. The cost was most likely minimal to acquire them. I checked to see if there was a posted sale price and there was not.
It was undisclosed.
AI for newer cards might work decent, not sure, but for the cardboard cards and opc cards it won't. In fact on the OPC cards either they should have all received 8's or lower or they need a sliding grade. Way too many 10's on cards that aren't 10's.
@olb31 Fair concern, and you're right that OPC and older cardboard are the hard cases. But that's a training problem more than a limit of the tech.
A model doesn't learn "a 10 looks like this" in general. It learns from thousands of graded examples of that specific issue. If you want it to handle rough OPC edges, you feed it OPC cards whose edges have already been judged, including the ones that came from the factory rough. It learns what normal looks like for that issue, and what counts as damage beyond it. Same for centering on '70s Topps, print snow, diamond cuts, and so on. Each quirk is its own lesson.
Where it struggles is novelty. Show it something it hasn't seen enough of, like an odd stock or an unusual defect, and it gets it wrong. The useful part is that a good model also reports how sure it is. On a run-of-the-mill modern card it might be 98% confident. On a weird OPC it might say 60%, and that low number is the signal to hand the card to a person.
So the realistic setup isn't AI replacing graders. Machine learning does the bulk of the repetitive measuring, consistently, every time. The human graders spend their time on the new, the unusual and the borderline. Done that way, I'd expect fewer gift 10s on OPC, not more, because the model doesn't get tired at card 400 of the day.
Tom Lehrer... The Year that was which was recorded and released in 1965 is as funny today as it was then... New Math along with the Vatican Rag are just hysterical.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
So after looking at Bobby Witt jr. cards on eBay and then reading this thread about the high cost of grading….. who would have these in a pile of possible cards to send to psa, and then actually decide to spend good money to send them? I didn’t show the cert numbers but both are psa 8.
I just don’t understand what the grade expectation would have been. 🤔
@Darin said:
So after looking at Bobby Witt jr. cards on eBay and then reading this thread about the high cost of grading….. who would have these in a pile of possible cards to send to psa, and then actually decide to spend good money to send them? I didn’t show the cert numbers but both are psa 8.
I just don’t understand what the grade expectation would have been. 🤔
Got an alert for Ron Cey cards on ebay and this recently graded card popped up.
I checked cert #s around it and looks like the same submitter subbed dozens of cards not worth grading.
After grading fees and minimum $5 fee for selling through the vault, theyre all money losers.
More evidence why PSA got backlogged.
Here are a few (before PSA banned me again for looking through cert #s LOL)
@Darin said:
So after looking at Bobby Witt jr. cards on eBay and then reading this thread about the high cost of grading….. who would have these in a pile of possible cards to send to psa, and then actually decide to spend good money to send them? I didn’t show the cert numbers but both are psa 8.
I just don’t understand what the grade expectation would have been. 🤔
Got an alert for Ron Cey cards on ebay and this recently graded card popped up.
I checked cert #s around it and looks like the same submitter subbed dozens of cards not worth grading.
After grading fees and minimum $5 fee for selling through the vault, theyre all money losers.
More evidence why PSA got backlogged.
Here are a few (before PSA banned me again for looking through cert #s LOL)
Are you serious? You got banned for looking up certs? That’s what it’s for. I’m done with them anyway
I have also been kicked out of Cert Verification after rummaging through to view cards. I’ve needed to verify my ID by choosing buses, bridges and motorcycles over and over again. 🤪😂
A gembryo is the early developmental stage of a perfect card.
Just not worth grading anymore unless you have a high value card. When value was $8-12 a card, i would send in 50-200 cards at a time, usually stuff mostly worth $40-200. Was fun finding decent raw cards out in the wild and grading them. Just cant do it anymore at $40 being the lowest fee.
What I Collect:
PSA HOF Baseball Postwar Rookies Set Registry- (Currently 82.54% Complete)
PSA Pro Football HOF Rookie Players Set Registry- (Currently 22.44% Complete)
@BBBrkrr said:
Even if grading was $5/card why would anyone grade that 77 Fisk? That's a weird choice.
I'm going to guess someone new to the hobby, who heard "baseball cards are worth a lot of money" and decided to grade a Hall of Famer from his childhood collection. Learning curve.
I also think that it's impossible to know the back story on some of these cards. They might be the first ones somebody opened from their first pack of cards. They might be the only cards they have from their deceased dad or brother's collection. They might be ones that somehow survived mom's purge when they went off to college, and it's all they have left of their childhood collection. They might be the cards that someone got in a big trade with their best friend, and they have some special meaning. There are many reasons someone might want to preserve an otherwise relatively worthless card. Or, they could be someone who doesn't know any better.
kevin
You can easily find the category of those who didn’t know any better by viewing recently graded PSA cards on eBay in mid or low grade being offered at high grade prices. Suffice to say, mistakes will be made, but there are also plenty of folks to feed the monster simply because they want a slabbed card of their hero.
A gembryo is the early developmental stage of a perfect card.
I tested a binary search on PSA's database once. That was fun. But slowly over months to avoid their ire. I've found that as long as you stay at a normal pace on a haptic interface you don't get cloudflagged.
I like to think that I have the largest collection of PSA 4s - now I wonder. But when I get a nice card with wax on it, I prefer to have it encapsulated with it even if it will max out at a 4.
Those aren’t reasons to grade a card. A card is perfectly preserved in a CS1. Its not like a slab can survive a fire or flood, and I can drop a CS1 off the roof of my house and it would survive, a slab not so much.
Always thought the “grade to preserve” was a strange angle.
@tulsaboy said:
I also think that it's impossible to know the back story on some of these cards. They might be the first ones somebody opened from their first pack of cards. They might be the only cards they have from their deceased dad or brother's collection. They might be ones that somehow survived mom's purge when they went off to college, and it's all they have left of their childhood collection. They might be the cards that someone got in a big trade with their best friend, and they have some special meaning. There are many reasons someone might want to preserve an otherwise relatively worthless card. Or, they could be someone who doesn't know any better.
kevin
@tulsaboy said:
I also think that it's impossible to know the back story on some of these cards. They might be the first ones somebody opened from their first pack of cards. They might be the only cards they have from their deceased dad or brother's collection. They might be ones that somehow survived mom's purge when they went off to college, and it's all they have left of their childhood collection. They might be the cards that someone got in a big trade with their best friend, and they have some special meaning. There are many reasons someone might want to preserve an otherwise relatively worthless card. Or, they could be someone who doesn't know any better.
kevin
And I agree, but it seems in this case, the submitter graded the cards, then sent them to the vault, and listed them for sale with $.99 opening bid, so not exactly a sign of sentimentality.
I believe PSAs min charge is $5 for any vault sale on ebay.
If these sell for under $5, the submitter paid to grade AND paid to sell.
Comments
@bgr YOWZA you one smart cookie foooo sure... In the pokemon example as long as one doesn't try to tie down specific production numbers can AI ascertain whether more pokemon cards were sold based on a combination of numerical pokemon numbers and qualitative opinions out there?
Maybe in the future the best AI alive will use a "FUDGE" factor to explain how $20 becomes $47
... We can average our fudge factors maybe?
have a good one!
So I can only communicate with friends on a forum that I've been on for over 20 years if I agree with how their new ownership is running the company?
Brian
People seem to be still be avidly collecting sets. Prices for higher grade commons are higher than ever before and competition is fierce. When you have a finite supply, prices tend to increase. I'm not sure how long this will last, but it's been that way for the past couple of years now at least for the 70s sets I track.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
...and you'll get your food in about a week
I would expect that SGC and BVG were purchased for assets only. They were most likely not succeeding. When mergers take place like this the value is in the assets and people only. The cost was most likely minimal to acquire them. I checked to see if there was a posted sale price and there was not.
It was undisclosed.
Takes that long to catch the chicken.
AI for newer cards might work decent, not sure, but for the cardboard cards and opc cards it won't. In fact on the OPC cards either they should have all received 8's or lower or they need a sliding grade. Way too many 10's on cards that aren't 10's.
@olb31 Fair concern, and you're right that OPC and older cardboard are the hard cases. But that's a training problem more than a limit of the tech.
A model doesn't learn "a 10 looks like this" in general. It learns from thousands of graded examples of that specific issue. If you want it to handle rough OPC edges, you feed it OPC cards whose edges have already been judged, including the ones that came from the factory rough. It learns what normal looks like for that issue, and what counts as damage beyond it. Same for centering on '70s Topps, print snow, diamond cuts, and so on. Each quirk is its own lesson.
Where it struggles is novelty. Show it something it hasn't seen enough of, like an odd stock or an unusual defect, and it gets it wrong. The useful part is that a good model also reports how sure it is. On a run-of-the-mill modern card it might be 98% confident. On a weird OPC it might say 60%, and that low number is the signal to hand the card to a person.
So the realistic setup isn't AI replacing graders. Machine learning does the bulk of the repetitive measuring, consistently, every time. The human graders spend their time on the new, the unusual and the borderline. Done that way, I'd expect fewer gift 10s on OPC, not more, because the model doesn't get tired at card 400 of the day.
Tom Lehrer... The Year that was which was recorded and released in 1965 is as funny today as it was then... New Math along with the Vatican Rag are just hysterical.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
So after looking at Bobby Witt jr. cards on eBay and then reading this thread about the high cost of grading….. who would have these in a pile of possible cards to send to psa, and then actually decide to spend good money to send them? I didn’t show the cert numbers but both are psa 8.
I just don’t understand what the grade expectation would have been. 🤔
I’ve got to send these in sometime. I’ve had them probably since 2019-20 and should have sent them back then. The Immaculate is a valuable card.
A couple Bobby autos that need to be sent to Psa.
Got an alert for Ron Cey cards on ebay and this recently graded card popped up.
I checked cert #s around it and looks like the same submitter subbed dozens of cards not worth grading.
After grading fees and minimum $5 fee for selling through the vault, theyre all money losers.
More evidence why PSA got backlogged.
Here are a few (before PSA banned me again for looking through cert #s LOL)
I have also been kicked out of Cert Verification after rummaging through to view cards. I’ve needed to verify my ID by choosing buses, bridges and motorcycles over and over again. 🤪😂
A gembryo is the early developmental stage of a perfect card.
Just not worth grading anymore unless you have a high value card. When value was $8-12 a card, i would send in 50-200 cards at a time, usually stuff mostly worth $40-200. Was fun finding decent raw cards out in the wild and grading them. Just cant do it anymore at $40 being the lowest fee.
PSA HOF Baseball Postwar Rookies Set Registry- (Currently 82.54% Complete)
PSA Pro Football HOF Rookie Players Set Registry- (Currently 22.44% Complete)
Even if grading was $5/card why would anyone grade that 77 Fisk? That's a weird choice.
POP 1 None Lower.
Yeah. I think I mentioned it about a month ago when it happened before.
After about 10 cert lookups, I get locked out.
Another stellar business practice, brought to you by Collectors Universe.
Wow, that's not a good look if they're limiting cert lookups.
I'm going to guess someone new to the hobby, who heard "baseball cards are worth a lot of money" and decided to grade a Hall of Famer from his childhood collection. Learning curve.
I also think that it's impossible to know the back story on some of these cards. They might be the first ones somebody opened from their first pack of cards. They might be the only cards they have from their deceased dad or brother's collection. They might be ones that somehow survived mom's purge when they went off to college, and it's all they have left of their childhood collection. They might be the cards that someone got in a big trade with their best friend, and they have some special meaning. There are many reasons someone might want to preserve an otherwise relatively worthless card. Or, they could be someone who doesn't know any better.
kevin
You can easily find the category of those who didn’t know any better by viewing recently graded PSA cards on eBay in mid or low grade being offered at high grade prices. Suffice to say, mistakes will be made, but there are also plenty of folks to feed the monster simply because they want a slabbed card of their hero.
A gembryo is the early developmental stage of a perfect card.
I tested a binary search on PSA's database once. That was fun. But slowly over months to avoid their ire. I've found that as long as you stay at a normal pace on a haptic interface you don't get cloudflagged.
I like to think that I have the largest collection of PSA 4s - now I wonder. But when I get a nice card with wax on it, I prefer to have it encapsulated with it even if it will max out at a 4.
I guess the Fisk was a pop 9 afterall. NO EXCUSE!
Those aren’t reasons to grade a card. A card is perfectly preserved in a CS1. Its not like a slab can survive a fire or flood, and I can drop a CS1 off the roof of my house and it would survive, a slab not so much.
Always thought the “grade to preserve” was a strange angle.
they don't want people to see the large run of PSA 10's from that one submitter...you know...them...
And I agree, but it seems in this case, the submitter graded the cards, then sent them to the vault, and listed them for sale with $.99 opening bid, so not exactly a sign of sentimentality.
I believe PSAs min charge is $5 for any vault sale on ebay.
If these sell for under $5, the submitter paid to grade AND paid to sell.
Oh, 4sure.