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Last GTG for Halloween 1888-o Scar Face Terminal Die State and verified
CivilWarBuff
Posts: 109 ✭✭✭
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I’m guessing 63+ or 64. I’ve never seen a cleaner one.
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MS64
DPOTD-3
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Don
63
Mr_Spud
Ms 63
63!
MS64 nice coin!!!
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
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MS63, really nice coin!
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63 here.
62
USAF veteran 1984-2005
Lock 64 and if NGC maybe even higher.
Monster coin for Halloween. How fitting. 64
Going strictly by the photos, the OP dollar does not appear to be the true terminal die-state, although it is very close and probably qualifies for the "Scarface" nomenclature.
I would guess MS-63 and quite possibly higher than that.
Official PCGS account of:
www.TallahasseeCoinClub.com
Wow very nice! I'd say MS64.
Collector, occasional seller
Based on what I read on VAM World I would say it is, but I would be very interested in you explaining why you feel it isn't. I never want to stop learning.
Just showing a comparison between VAM World's terminal die state and mine. to make it easier fro all concerned. If I am incorrect on the length of the crack and anything else then its is my ignorance with the subject matter and I will stand corrected. This is what learning is all about.
An attractive example for the type. A tough call. I think 63+ is the most probably grade.
I have never owned this one... perhaps a name change for this would help. I sort of like the Elsa Lanchester die state
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
nice, 64
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It is absolutely the H-10 terminal die stage as described by Ash Harrison in his article describing all 10 stages. The die crack extends into the second lowest hair curl and as of now, nothing has surfaced that extends any further.
This looks like it was graded by Anacs and with all the hits on the eagle’s breast, I would grade it MS 62. Nice coin. Zack.
The obverse is very clean.
reveal?
Does it have a damaged obverse next to star 5? It looks like a scrape there.
Nice MS63. wonderful example.
bob
Nice looking coin! They don't come in high grade, and that scrape in the field limits it to 62.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
A nice dramatic coin, nice 👍
Does the die-crack cross over the bridge of Liberty's nose? It could well be a characteristic of the image that makes it not so apparent!
I personally handled an PCGS/CAC MS-62 example that was the latest die-state that I have ever personally examined, with a complete and uninterrupted die-crack across the entire obverse. And of course, virtually all Scarface dollars are weakly struck, which is why they are frequently overly baggy - production could not entirely erase pre-strike planchet abrasions.
All this aside, I do like the OP coin very much.
Official PCGS account of:
www.TallahasseeCoinClub.com
I have never seen or heard of any instance, where the 1888-O Scarface obverse is entirely bisected by the crack, extending from rim to rim. The only way to prove this would be to produce the actual coin in a third party holder from the 3 major grading companies. Otherwise I wouldn’t think it exists.
Here is my PCGS example that has the die crack extending into the first lower hair curl. It is the H-10 terminal die stage.
PCGS is VERY strict on these. I grade the OP coin MS-63 but wouldn't be surprised if PCGS entombs it in a 62.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
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I will retrieve it from the sdb, I cannot remember the mark in the field. I thought it wasn't much at all but I will double check because you asked and it is where one's eye goes to.
REALLY nice one!
I’m guessing the rim dings held it back.
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My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Very nice 1B coin, the ANACs photo looks like it has nice luster. The reverse hits would probably hold it back from a 63. Also not sure if that impure metal streak slag on obverse effects the grade at 63.
There are a couple reasons for strict grading on these. First, as has been mentioned, the messed-up die adversely affects the strike, making planchet flaws and bag marks more prominent. Second, the prime focal area shifts on this one to the path along the break, and anything that can distract from the break is a strike against eye appeal, especially if a hit is on the break. Normally, the field isn't so important, but there's lots of cool stuff to see in the field on this coin, in particular the rippled die in front of the nose. The rippled die probably causes the coin to pick up hits differently there. I don't think the reverse is what is preventing a grade of 63.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Tallashassee was quoting the VAM material where it discusses the die crack closet to the eye at the bridge of the nose (vs the more pronounced die crack further away closer to the tip of the nose). The author said that the 2 pups were the major die crack dying into the hair of Miss Liberty and the light die crack closest to the eye. I retrieved my Scar Face today from the sdb and it had that die crack that Tallahassee quoted. So I understand now his concern when describing the Terminal Die State.