One guy I know has 40-60 NGC slabs. He has no intention of getting any reholdered, etc. due to costs (negative hit on business costs) or getting them crossed. However ones that need preservation will need to be dipped: plus Reholdered) / those will be sent to be conserved, dipped, etc. (TPG).
He wb going thru all of the NGC slabs he has to see if any need a dip, etc. Any coins he crosses, cracks, dips wb going to PCGS or CACG.
What I am curious about is how much is all that going to cost. Then knowing that expense will he allocate project cost to item or some fixed cost acct?
Believe many fear of multiple slabs in transit will back away from sending ok coins maybe blow out bad ones then just keep the ones ok.
For the player which slabs need take down due to need be reholdered) slab, surfaces)?
@Cougar1978 said:
How much will all this revamping the roster cost?
One guy I know has 40-60 NGC slabs. He has no intention of getting any reholdered, etc. due to costs (negative hit on business costs) or getting them crossed. However ones that need preservation will need to be dipped: plus Reholdered) / those will be sent to be conserved, dipped, etc. (TPG).
He wb going thru all of the NGC slabs he has to see if any need a dip, etc. Any coins he crosses, cracks, dips wb going to PCGS or CACG.
What I am curious about is how much is all that going to cost. Then knowing that expense will he allocate project cost to item or some fixed cost acct?
Believe many fear of multiple slabs in transit will back away from sending ok coins maybe blow out bad ones then just keep the ones ok.
For the player which slabs need take down due to need be reholdered) slab, surfaces)?
How many already NGC certified coins could someone buy that need to be conserved with a dip? Especially someone who is likely a dealer and motivated by profit. What did he pay, cents on the dollar for such coins to account for the additional expense?
I see a difference whereby conservation is likely required due to PVC or deteriorating surfaces that clearly jeopardize the long-term stability of the coin. Enhanced is clearly an effort to improve the ultimate grade outcome that more often than not comes at a compromising price of sacrificing originality.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
@Cougar1978 said:
A Dealer - His first move not to panic. Next how many NGC slabs does he have. How many of those need conversation?
Why would the change in guarantee (even if it wasn't recanted) now make you concerned about conserving existing NGC coins? I really don't get it. For me the concern was about harming the stability of the markets and resale value of existing NGC coins as many collectors and dealers cannot grade and blindly rely on labels (and implicitly the guarantee that comes with that label).
Is there a significant record of NGC grading counterfeits? That would be the main venue for the guarantee imo. If you send in a coin that you think is over-graded, you'll either get something like "...looks good to us"; or yeah we agree the coin turned in the holder, if it wasn't due to your negligence, we'll dip it, downgrade it if necessary and give you a credit.
@logger7 said:
Is there a significant record of NGC grading counterfeits?
PCGS authenticated, graded, and slabbed 90 counterfeit Morgan dollars with the micro-O mintmark dated 1896, 1900, and 1902. PCGS had to issue a press release recalling them. NGC immediately recognized them as being counterfeit and refused slab any of them. Guess which grading service I consider to have the greatest expertise when it comes to authenticating coins?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@logger7 said:
Is there a significant record of NGC grading counterfeits?
PCGS authenticated, graded, and slabbed 90 counterfeit Morgan dollars with the micro-O mintmark dated 1896, 1900, and 1902. PCGS had to issue a press release recalling them. NGC immediately recognized them as being counterfeit and refused slab any of them. Guess which grading service I consider to have the greatest expertise when it comes to authenticating coins?
As that was 21 years ago and most of the graders present at that time have probably left both services since then, I wouldn't use that as a basis to opine on authentication skills (almost) a quarter century later. Do you know how many millions of coins both services have certified since then? And the best counterfeits have only become more advanced since that time.
Experience is not cumlative for a service. It is based on the people you have doing it. Personel changes occur often and so does a services ability to deal with consistently correct authenticity calls. Small "O" dollars are not a good litmus test as they have had calls both ways by respected numismatists.
ANACS has the best record and the least amount of buybacks. You can argue about whether they are TPG or not, but
they have the best record in authenticity and attribution for over 50 years. Michael Fahey and Rick Montgomery have over 45 years continuos grading service experience. Both ANACS trained in the early 1980's. J.P. Martin
62 yrs in Coins, 42 yrs Certifying/Grading, CoinWorld's Most Influential People In Numismatics, 1960-2020. 30 consecutive yrs teaching ANA Summer seminar, Numismatic Ambassador award, 1998 Doctorate in Numismatics, Glenn Smedley Award, ANA Governor 2009/2011, Author/ Host of ANA's best selling video's, courses on grading & counterfeit detection. Taught over 1,100 paying students, Secret service agents, San Diego to Boston, Anchorage to Miami, including 2 coin cruise lecturer. many Free presentations. NLG book and video awards. ANA photographer, SEM operator, ASA Appraiser, Contributor to Redbook, Numismatist, Coin World, Numismatic News, ANA Grading Guides, 40,000 Volume Library, Founder ANAAB, ICG, 1995 ANA collector services appraisal/conservation, First full service Ancient coin grading service. Navy 75-77, WIU 77-81, Dealer1981-1984, ANA 1984-1998, 60 year Collector U.S./ 50 Year Ancient coins. ANA Advisory Committee. Life member ANA, ANS. Semi-retired grader in Denver area
Comments
How much will all this revamping the roster cost?
One guy I know has 40-60 NGC slabs. He has no intention of getting any reholdered, etc. due to costs (negative hit on business costs) or getting them crossed. However ones that need preservation will need to be dipped: plus Reholdered) / those will be sent to be conserved, dipped, etc. (TPG).
He wb going thru all of the NGC slabs he has to see if any need a dip, etc. Any coins he crosses, cracks, dips wb going to PCGS or CACG.
What I am curious about is how much is all that going to cost. Then knowing that expense will he allocate project cost to item or some fixed cost acct?
Believe many fear of multiple slabs in transit will back away from sending ok coins maybe blow out bad ones then just keep the ones ok.
For the player which slabs need take down due to need be reholdered) slab, surfaces)?
How many already NGC certified coins could someone buy that need to be conserved with a dip? Especially someone who is likely a dealer and motivated by profit. What did he pay, cents on the dollar for such coins to account for the additional expense?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Keeping my NGC coins as is for now.
How often do people use the guarantee these days?
For things like putty, should 10 years be enough?
Not necessarily.
Conserved or enhanced?
I see a difference whereby conservation is likely required due to PVC or deteriorating surfaces that clearly jeopardize the long-term stability of the coin. Enhanced is clearly an effort to improve the ultimate grade outcome that more often than not comes at a compromising price of sacrificing originality.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
A Dealer - His first move not to panic. Next how many NGC slabs does he have. How many of those need conservation?
Why would the change in guarantee (even if it wasn't recanted) now make you concerned about conserving existing NGC coins? I really don't get it. For me the concern was about harming the stability of the markets and resale value of existing NGC coins as many collectors and dealers cannot grade and blindly rely on labels (and implicitly the guarantee that comes with that label).
Is there a significant record of NGC grading counterfeits? That would be the main venue for the guarantee imo. If you send in a coin that you think is over-graded, you'll either get something like "...looks good to us"; or yeah we agree the coin turned in the holder, if it wasn't due to your negligence, we'll dip it, downgrade it if necessary and give you a credit.
PCGS authenticated, graded, and slabbed 90 counterfeit Morgan dollars with the micro-O mintmark dated 1896, 1900, and 1902. PCGS had to issue a press release recalling them. NGC immediately recognized them as being counterfeit and refused slab any of them. Guess which grading service I consider to have the greatest expertise when it comes to authenticating coins?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
As that was 21 years ago and most of the graders present at that time have probably left both services since then, I wouldn't use that as a basis to opine on authentication skills (almost) a quarter century later. Do you know how many millions of coins both services have certified since then? And the best counterfeits have only become more advanced since that time.
Guess which grading service I consider to have the greatest expertise when it comes to authenticating coins?
CACG?
Experience is not cumlative for a service. It is based on the people you have doing it. Personel changes occur often and so does a services ability to deal with consistently correct authenticity calls. Small "O" dollars are not a good litmus test as they have had calls both ways by respected numismatists.
ANACS has the best record and the least amount of buybacks. You can argue about whether they are TPG or not, but
they have the best record in authenticity and attribution for over 50 years. Michael Fahey and Rick Montgomery have over 45 years continuos grading service experience. Both ANACS trained in the early 1980's. J.P. Martin
62 yrs in Coins, 42 yrs Certifying/Grading, CoinWorld's Most Influential People In Numismatics, 1960-2020. 30 consecutive yrs teaching ANA Summer seminar, Numismatic Ambassador award, 1998 Doctorate in Numismatics, Glenn Smedley Award, ANA Governor 2009/2011, Author/ Host of ANA's best selling video's, courses on grading & counterfeit detection. Taught over 1,100 paying students, Secret service agents, San Diego to Boston, Anchorage to Miami, including 2 coin cruise lecturer. many Free presentations. NLG book and video awards. ANA photographer, SEM operator, ASA Appraiser, Contributor to Redbook, Numismatist, Coin World, Numismatic News, ANA Grading Guides, 40,000 Volume Library, Founder ANAAB, ICG, 1995 ANA collector services appraisal/conservation, First full service Ancient coin grading service. Navy 75-77, WIU 77-81, Dealer1981-1984, ANA 1984-1998, 60 year Collector U.S./ 50 Year Ancient coins. ANA Advisory Committee. Life member ANA, ANS. Semi-retired grader in Denver area