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1943 Copper Penny 3.1g - Facebook Find from Ecuador
ricarf2386
Posts: 268 ✭✭✭
Hello everyone,
I wanted to share a post from a local Facebook group here in Ecuador. I took a few screenshots for reference so you can observe and analyze the details.
The post shows a 1943 Lincoln Cent on a scale weighing exactly 3.1 grams. Additionally, they performed a magnet test alongside a regular 1943 steel cent to show how it behaves.
I recommended to the person who posted it that the only way to officially know if this coin is real or not is by sending it to a top-tier grading service like NGC, PCGS, or ANACS.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this piece. Thanks!
3
Comments
Clearly a counterfeit.
No need to waste a lot of money submitting the coin for authentication/grading as (edited) it’s a copy with no numismatic value. The mushy design detail is an immediate giveaway.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Not just clearly a counterfeit, but it also looks like a modern mass-marketed counterfeit.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Superb collections are built more by omission than by addition.
Looks like the ones you can by on the Chinese site for a couple of dollars
The truth is, I also had many doubts from the start, especially since this is one of the most coveted cents by collectors. I imagine you have seen similar posts here for a long time, from people uploading these specific fake cents, so you already know them very well.
With this, I am going to help the person by sharing your comments and insights so they can save their money in case they were thinking about sending it for grading.
However, I would like to ask a question. Has it ever happened in this forum that a coin passed the filter of authenticity later on? I mean, has there been a case where a coin was universally deemed fake by the forum members here, but after being sent to a grading service, it actually came back authenticated as genuine?
Thank you for your comments!
Just to avoid any misunderstandings, I want to clarify that my question is strictly out of curiosity. I am not questioning for a single second your visual skills or your extensive knowledge, as you are all leading experts in this field. I just wanted to learn about any interesting past anecdotes.
Thank you again for your time and comments!
Bogus 👎
Certainly not for a counterfeit this poorly made
g.
In the interest of fair play, there was a Buffalo nickel presented here that the thread creator believed was a proof. Sceptics stated not to waste their time having it graded.
I was subsequently graded as a proof.
This single incident does not in any form or fashion validate the above "1943 copper" cent as it is a counterfeit of mass production.
To add:
Over the course of many years I've taken in albums of Lincoln cents. Whenever I come upon one that is not genuine I set it aside.
Here are a couple of them (your "copper 1943" on the right side).
And yes, it does not stick to a magnet.
(The ones that do I simply throw away.)
Just to avoid any misunderstandings, I want to clarify that my question is strictly out of curiosity. I am not questioning for a single second your visual skills or your extensive knowledge, as you are all leading experts in this field. I just wanted to learn about any interesting past anecdotes.
Thank you again for your time and comments!
Thank you, my friend, for your two comments.
First, that was a great anecdote regarding your Buffalo nickel! One thing I have truly learned here is that photos are often what validate or invalidate a specific specimen. The forum should probably make it a guideline that all posts must include high-quality photos taken with proper perspective and good lighting.
Second, your other comment was highly educational. I see that you have a few cents that look quite similar to the one in the Facebook post. I was wondering if you could explain how you determine they are counterfeits? To be honest, I don't think there are many of these available here in Ecuador, and I'm curious if there is a way or place to buy one just to have it in hand as a reference.
Could you please explain exactly how you evaluate them? That way, if anyone ever tries to sell me one in the future, I can keep my excitement in check and know what to look for. I would truly appreciate your explanation!
If you take a 1943 cent which is steel and harden it, you've just created a hub that can be used to create working dies to strike counterfeit 1943 cents.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Thank you for that excellent technical insight, PerryHall! That is a fascinating method used by counterfeiters to create nearly perfect fakes. This whole topic has sparked a huge interest in me, and I’ve been researching it deeply.
According to the official grading census data, only a handful of genuine specimens are known to exist across all three mints: around 15 to 20 from Philadelphia (no mint mark), exactly 6 from San Francisco ("S"), and only 1 unique specimen discovered so far from Denver ("D").
My question to you and the rest of the forum is: Do you think all the existing genuine specimens have already been found? Or is there still a statistical probability that new, undiscovered examples from this specific 1943 series could show up in the future?
Thanks again for your time!
It's a mistake for you to try to evaluate coins yourself; your posting history has shown this. Just know that if anyone offers a 1943 bronze cent to you for sale, it will always be counterfeit.
In a couple of recent instances (as in your first post above), you have been offering coin advice to people. That is also a mistake. Listen and learn, but do not try to give advice.
really bad counterfeit. totally obvious
there are counterfeits in many areas that fool experts
this won't be one of them
Okay, my friend, I take your advice 100 percent. I just want to clarify one thing: I spend a lot of time on these threads reading, learning, and self-educating. In that regard, I believe I am quite different from many others who have passed through here.
Second, I am a man who believes strongly in statistics, which is exactly why I asked PerryHall that question. Based on the figures, it seems statistically impossible that there is still a genuine 1943 bronze cent circulating out there today.
I appreciate the guidance and I will keep learning.
There’s no way, to know - statistically or otherwise - whether there are other genuine 1943 copper cents to be discovered. But it’s certainly not impossible.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Thank you, Mark. To be honest, I thought the exact number of these coins was completely unknown since there are no official Mint records from that chaotic wartime era. It was likely just a few leftover planchets trapped in the hopper or perhaps an oversight by a worker.
From what I’ve been reading in various threads here, the two key methods to verify authenticity are an XRF scan for exact metal composition and a microscopic comparison against the die characteristics of known, certified genuine examples.
Given that, I assume there will always be a few edge-case coins that deserve the benefit of the doubt. People will surely keep sending them in to the grading services in the future, hoping to discover that elusive "million-dollar penny" so frequently hyped on TikTok or Facebook.
@ricarf2386
If board members here are at times slightly stern in their approach with you it is simply due to the love of the hobby and a strong desire to quell misleading information.
I do believe you are sincere and are not like the typical new member who posts nonsense and then argues when opinions don't match expectation.
Thank you, my friend. I can see you have a great heart. But let me tell you, I am from Guayaquil, Ecuador. I am 40 years old, and what my eyes have seen and my ears have heard throughout my life are things that perhaps many here have never experienced or lived through. I come from a neighborhood called El Guasmo. If any of you search it up, you will see exactly what kind of place it is. So, trust me, the harsh comments here do not affect me at all. Thank God, I have a good education and I consider myself quite intelligent.
To be completely honest, visiting this forum has become a highlight of my day-to-day life. It is an amazing community, and I feed on this knowledge every single day. I joined on July 2nd, and I am close to reaching 1,000 visits to the site just from checking, reading, and studying past threads. If I didn't drop by to comment once in a while, I wouldn't have the reach I've achieved so far.
Lately, I’ve been deeply researching the discussions around Sacagawea and Presidential Dollars, which are precisely the types of coins that are within my reach on a daily basis. I now understand that when it comes to these series, the community is highly interested in key varieties and errors, such as Low Ball dollars, the Cheerio's dollar, the Wounded Eagle error, the Godless Presidential dollars, and the 3rd lightning bolt variety on the Washington coin.
In fact, I am currently working with one of the members of this forum on a marketing project for a music presentation. I am also helping another member source some specific coins here in my country; he had the trust to send me the funds upfront, and I have already located the coins to ship them out soon.
On top of that, regarding my custom t-shirts featuring coin errors, there will be some surprises coming up in the near future! To be honest, I’ve grown to truly care about many of the people in this forum. Every single day, I wake up excited just to see what new knowledge and discussions you all bring to the table. Thank you again for your time, your guidance, and for making me feel part of this great family!
Maybe not deemed counterfeit by a forum member, but there were once five famous 1913 Liberty Head nickels that we branded as fakes that turned out to be five of the most famous coins in numismatics, forty some years later. I think they were in a shoe box in a closet all that time. Surely some here have more accurate info on this story , so I would say, “ anything is possible.” With baby boomers passing, and some avid collectors out there , hoarding old coins, there could be some rarities surfacing in the upcoming years.
There was one (not five) genuine 1913 Liberty Nickel that at one time was deemed to be counterfeit, but years later, determined to be genuine.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
To be honest, as I mentioned before, I deeply enjoy researching and diving into numismatic history, so I spent some time investigating the fascinating story behind that specific fifth coin, the Walton Specimen.
When you break down the numerical improbability of that entire event, the math is simply mind-blowing. First, the chance of that specific coin being on George O. Walton during his fatal car crash in 1962, surviving the impact intact, and then being misdiagnosed as a fake by the top experts of the era is already mathematically microscopic. Then, add the improbability of his family casually tossing a multimillion-dollar treasure into a common shoebox, leaving it forgotten in the dark of a closet for forty-one long years without it getting lost, thrown away, or stolen. Finally, the statistical odds of that exact piece returning from the dead in 2003 to be placed under a microscope next to the other four genuine examples, only to prove the original experts wrong and rewrite the census, is effectively a 0.00001% event.
From the standpoint of the community back then, the probability of it being real was a strict 0% because the original expert verdict was considered absolute. Yet, this incredible chain of events perfectly validates my point: in this hobby, as in statistics, we can never completely close the door to that tiny 0.01% of doubt. Human errors happen, and sometimes miracles survive the craziest odds. Thank you for sharing your immense knowledge and for keeping the fascinating mystery of numismatics alive!
By the way, I want to mention that I truly enjoy researching, and using AI gives me a huge boost to investigate and draft all the historical data I share here.
Thanks for clarifying the number, I wasn’t sure, but I remember the story more about the car crash, the coins on the road and the police officer. Amazing they were recovered. Go Brewers !
I believe there are stories of the US Secret Service destroying several genuine 1969-S doubled dies thinking they were counterfeit before it was a known variety.
Collector, occasional seller