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Opinions on this Stan Musial autograph?
BaltimoreYankee
Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭✭✭
I acquired the signature directly from Musial through the mail in the 1980's as he was very well known as a reliable signer. I recently sold it on eBay and the buyer will be returning it since it failed his authentication service. The authenticator is "Gary Stiles Out or Safe Baseball Signature Review LLC". Anybody hear of him or have an opinion on the signature? There is currently a PSA/DNA '83 HOF Heroes card with pretty much the exact same sig.
Daniel
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I get an 80% match from my own tool - which is kind of the best you allow is 8/10 unless you know. Here are 4 of the same issue from my training set. I don't know how they do their authentication but there are accepted methods and I use one of them. So it does look authentic to me compared to hundreds to examples which were slabbed authentic already.
if I'm not out of line, can you kindly explain your "own tool". I've a keen interest in what you use and how you created it. Dave
You're not out of line. Here's a high level.
it compares against known examples from a graded and authenticated corpus of signatures. These are organized into categories based on known era or style - some athletes have a short-pen for example.
It measures natural variation. Most people really don't sign identically ever so does the signature, and the nature of it, confirm to an expected range. Overlay spread for example.
It analyzes both the shape and how the instrument moved. model detection for tremor, hesitation and blunts, lifts & pressure.
Many athletes have known forgeries so I also capture those and use them as negative analysis.
The output of this gives up to 80% confidence. There are some limitations around resolution. Ideally you have 2 1200dpi scans at perpendicular angles from a CCD scanner, but sometimes you can only be so confident.
Here's what an overlay looks like: This is generated with over 2000 Nolan Ryan signatures that have been authenticated. He has a very consistent signature.
Does it meet diagnostic criteria elements for what would be necessary in forensics? I wouldn't certify it, but it does follow the same ACE-V steps which would be used by a human evaluator. Similar to most offline tools it can be fooled by a skilled forgery so I'm not shooting for the moon with a pet project; I'm just trying to filter out those which appear questionable and do a little era detection.
I gave it to chatGPT and got an 80 to 90%
If that sig is a fake Daniel? It's one hell of a good one - just my impression.
Musiał sigs are pretty easy. There's a plethora of them available thanks to his willingness to sign and serve the collecting community for many years. I even have a letter with Stan's actual signature on it, which authenticates the baseball card he signed to go along with it. He would sign literally anything you could ask for. He also played a rockin' harmonica for us in St. Louis at a show way back when. Just a stellar guy.
my old man is a lifer Cards fan
this is a ball he got signed by the entire team back in the 40s
the John Hancock he received from Musial, for comparative purposes
(Joe Garagiola two beneath him)
This is from a team ball around 1960-1962