@logger7 said:
How is eBay absorbing the added costs? Does anyone have an estimate of how much they're having to pay for the detour to PCGS, the crew that takes the package apart, then assesses whether the coin is counterfeit or not, and then repackages the shipment, pays for yet more shipping, etc.? How will they pay for this?
Part of that cost is probably offset by reducing the amount of charge backs and time spent mediating cases where someone either claimed or was sent something other than what they ordered. They have done this with cards for years, so the benefits must outweigh the costs or else they would have axed the program a while ago instead of expanding it.
I think there are direct cost recovery, as you point out. But it also helps more sales to occur because of greater trust in the platform.
As you say, they've done it with cards for almost 5 years but also sneakers, watches, and IIRC handbags.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I think this will ultimately turn some coin collector traffic away. I dont disagree with what ebay is doing. I just dont think people are that patient and will look for quicker avenues to make purchases.
Places like GC, HA, Stacks etc...
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan MWallace logger7 JWP BruceS bigjpst
JWP PROMETHIUS88
@Morgan13 said:
I think this will ultimately turn some coin collector traffic away. I dont disagree with what ebay is doing. I just dont think people are that patient and will look for quicker avenues to make purchases.
Places like GC, HA, Stacks etc...
I think it will attract more than it loses.
GC, HA etc take just as long or longer if you consider the first appearance of the item and not when the hammer comes down, it could be weeks before you get the item relative to when you first saw it.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
My direct experience with PCGS customer service has been incredibly slow, incompetent, indifferent, and apparently biased against individual collectors. Telephone calls and messages have gone unanswered, complaints have not received meaningful responses, and submissions have not always received the services or attention requested.
That record raises a serious practical concern about the eBay program. Adding PCGS as an intermediary between an eBay seller and buyer introduces another shipping destination, another inspection process, and another organization that must accurately receive, document, process, and forward the coin.
Given PCGS’s customer-service and order-processing problems, this additional step may unnecessarily delay delivery of coins purchased through the open market. If a coin is misplaced, incorrectly identified, damaged, or delayed during inspection, buyers and sellers may be forced to depend upon the same slow and unresponsive customer-service system that I have already experienced.
Collectors are paying substantial amounts of money for these coins. They should not have to wait additional days or weeks because eBay has inserted PCGS into a transaction that was otherwise directly between a willing buyer and seller. This is particularly objectionable when the coin has already been authenticated and graded by NGC or another recognized grading service.
page 2
I would appreciate a direct explanation of:
1. Whether buyers can decline PCGS authentication on eligible eBay purchases.
2. How much additional delivery time PCGS authentication is expected to add.
3. What procedures exist when PCGS delays, damages, misidentifies, or loses an eBay purchase.
4. Why previously purchased TrueView images do not automatically remain available to the current owner of the certified coin.
5. What PCGS will do to make existing TrueView images available to subsequent owners.
6. Which published PCGS fee schedule and declared-value limits are controlling.
7. How PCGS could have seriously reconsidered my 1953-S Franklin half dollar for Full Bell Lines while an adhesive label remained over the bell-line area.
8. How PCGS intends to improve its responsiveness and fairness toward individual collectors.
9. How PCGS intends to restore confidence when its published policies, customer service, and actual order processing do not agree.
@BEBPE said:
Collectors are paying substantial amounts of money for these coins. They should not have to wait additional days or weeks because eBay has inserted PCGS into a transaction that was otherwise directly between a willing buyer and seller. This is particularly objectionable when the coin has already been authenticated and graded by NGC or another recognized grading service.
eBay should only send counterfeit coins for authentication so that the authentic ones are not delayed by the authentication process? Wouldn't that require a pre-authentication examination in order that authentic coins are not sent for authentication?
Not every coin/slab on eBay has already been authenticated and graded by NGC or another recognized grading service. There's still the counterfeits, they need to be weeded out. That's sort of the purpose of the whole exercise.
Both PCGS and NGC already provide online certification-verification services. Before purchasing a certified coin, a buyer can enter its certification number on the grading company’s website and confirm the coin’s date, mintmark, denomination, grade, designation, and holder information.
PCGS could make that verification substantially more effective by permanently displaying every high-resolution obverse and reverse image taken through TrueView or Gold Shield on the coin’s certification-verification page. Potential buyers would then be able to compare both sides of the coin offered for sale with PCGS’s own official photographs. They could examine the coin’s marks, toning, strike characteristics, surface features, and holder information to determine whether the coin being advertised is the same coin PCGS originally certified.
These images would also help buyers identify counterfeit coins, altered holders, mismatched certification numbers, misleading photographs, and listings in which the seller is not offering the actual certified coin shown in PCGS’s records. Just as importantly, buyers could see exactly what they are purchasing before sending thousands—or tens of thousands—of dollars to a seller.
PCGS has already taken these photographs, and in many cases a collector paid specifically for TrueView or Gold Shield imaging. Every available photograph should remain permanently connected to the certification number and accessible to the coin’s current owner and prospective buyers. Access should not disappear simply because ownership changes or because the photographs were originally ordered by a previous submitter.
I recognize that eBay’s new program adds a physical comparison of the coin and holder with the listing. However, if PCGS consistently provided complete, high-resolution obverse and reverse images for every TrueView and Gold Shield coin, buyers could perform a meaningful comparison themselves before completing a purchase. This would greatly reduce—if not eliminate—the claimed need for PCGS to physically insert itself between an eBay buyer and seller.
Instead, PCGS is creating an additional shipping destination, inspection step, expense, delay, and risk while failing to make full use of the verification tools and photographs it already possesses. From my perspective, this appears to be another attempt by PCGS to insert itself into collectors’ private-market purchases and generate additional revenue from transactions that PCGS did not originate.
If PCGS wants to increase its business, it should earn that business by improving grading consistency, order accuracy, turnaround performance, customer service, and access to the TrueView and Gold Shield photographs collectors have already paid for. Revenue should come from collectors voluntarily choosing PCGS because of excellent service—not from inserting PCGS as an unnecessary intermediary between buyers and sellers on eBay.
Anybody can get all the pictures they want of authentic certified coins. In order to confirm that the image of a coin listed for sale on the internet is the one that a buyer will receive, somebody needs to examine the coin in hand.
Do all certified coins from the TPG's listed below have corresponding pictures when doing a certification lookup?
From the program FAQS Section:
For graded coins, eligible coins must be graded by one of the following companies:
Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS)
Numismatic Guaranty Company (NGC)
Certified Acceptance Corporation Grading (CACG)
American Numismatic Association Certification (ANACS)
Independent Coin Graders (ICG)
@DotStore said:
Do all certified coins from the TPG's listed below have corresponding pictures when doing a certification lookup?
From the program FAQS Section:
For graded coins, eligible coins must be graded by one of the following companies:
Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS)
Numismatic Guaranty Company (NGC)
Certified Acceptance Corporation Grading (CACG)
American Numismatic Association Certification (ANACS)
Independent Coin Graders (ICG)
No, not "all certified coins" have corresponding pictures when doing a certification lookup.
@MasonG said:
Anybody can get all the pictures they want of authentic certified coins. In order to confirm that the image of a coin listed for sale on the internet is the one that a buyer will receive, somebody needs to examine the coin in hand.
It's amazing how suddenly they trust everyone on ebay! 😆
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@Rc5280 said: @jmlanzaf
"even large commercial ventures that have their own websites also cross-list on eBay including numismatic giants like Apmex, JM Bullion, Pinehurst, etc."
True, and a lot of these guys, big or small will offer you a better price if you buy off of their website (to avoid a portion/all of eBay's fees).
@Desert Moon have you considered expanding your online presence on the bay?
Zero chance, 1, security, 2, fees, 3, ebay overlord rules that one has to abide by. Many highly recognized numismatic dealers don't use ebay. After a few months of research on how I wanted to start an online coin store, I chose to not make connections with ebay. It reminds me too much of working at universities for decades where they put loads of barriers in your way to success. I have been quite successful without dealing with them. Why would I want to suffer under their regime? Sure it makes sense for certain kinds of inventory. But not mine....................
Similar coins to what you offer sell every day on eBay. It's not that your inventory can't be sold on eBay successfully, it's that you chose not to.
Desert Moon has an across-the-board high quality inventory. The typical ebay seller inventory is riddled with shlock.
A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.
Even if that's so ("schlock" often means "things I'm not interested in and have no idea of what their value might be", BTW), does the typical eBay buyer buy everything in a seller's inventory? Or do they select only the item(s) they think are "high quality"?
@Rc5280 said: @jmlanzaf
"even large commercial ventures that have their own websites also cross-list on eBay including numismatic giants like Apmex, JM Bullion, Pinehurst, etc."
True, and a lot of these guys, big or small will offer you a better price if you buy off of their website (to avoid a portion/all of eBay's fees).
@Desert Moon have you considered expanding your online presence on the bay?
Zero chance, 1, security, 2, fees, 3, ebay overlord rules that one has to abide by. Many highly recognized numismatic dealers don't use ebay. After a few months of research on how I wanted to start an online coin store, I chose to not make connections with ebay. It reminds me too much of working at universities for decades where they put loads of barriers in your way to success. I have been quite successful without dealing with them. Why would I want to suffer under their regime? Sure it makes sense for certain kinds of inventory. But not mine....................
Similar coins to what you offer sell every day on eBay. It's not that your inventory can't be sold on eBay successfully, it's that you chose not to.
Desert Moon has an across-the-board high quality inventory. The typical ebay seller inventory is riddled with shlock.
There are plenty of eBay sellers who have similar quality coins for sale.
@Rc5280 said: @jmlanzaf
"even large commercial ventures that have their own websites also cross-list on eBay including numismatic giants like Apmex, JM Bullion, Pinehurst, etc."
True, and a lot of these guys, big or small will offer you a better price if you buy off of their website (to avoid a portion/all of eBay's fees).
@Desert Moon have you considered expanding your online presence on the bay?
Zero chance, 1, security, 2, fees, 3, ebay overlord rules that one has to abide by. Many highly recognized numismatic dealers don't use ebay. After a few months of research on how I wanted to start an online coin store, I chose to not make connections with ebay. It reminds me too much of working at universities for decades where they put loads of barriers in your way to success. I have been quite successful without dealing with them. Why would I want to suffer under their regime? Sure it makes sense for certain kinds of inventory. But not mine....................
Similar coins to what you offer sell every day on eBay. It's not that your inventory can't be sold on eBay successfully, it's that you chose not to.
Desert Moon has an across-the-board high quality inventory. The typical ebay seller inventory is riddled with shlock.
There are plenty of eBay sellers who have similar quality coins for sale.
And even much better coins for sale.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@logger7 said:
I don't get the certified coin "authenticity guarantee" requirement. If you're selling raw over $500 that would make some sense, or a seller with a low rating with counterfeit claims and returns.
Probably because so many certified coins are actually counterfeit pieces in counterfeit holders.
Haven't the ebay listings of counterfeits of fake PCGS and NGC holders been by sketchy sellers with limited or problem feedback? Also why are they doing this with Anacs and ICG certified coins, have there been any counferfeits over $500 sold in those holders?
No. Fake slabs are mostly from sketchy sellers, but not all. It also looks that the coins match the listing.
Turns out people prefer that ebay do nothing about fakes and scam artists.
They'll dislike it till they get scammed.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Got my first coin bought through the program today. It was mailed from San Diego on Sep 14 and got to me in Phoenix a week later. Here are my thoughts on this:
1. The extra delay sucks. Would like the ability as a buyer to opt out if I trust the seller, even if it meant waiving some rights or guarantees.
2. I was looking at a dubious coin earlier today but then I realized I didn't need to fear because it would be authenticated which was an encouragement to go ahead and pull the trigger (even thought I decided not to).
3. In my case I had to buy the coin twice because the coin I bought was MS65 but the title said MS64. I knew what I was getting, but I wonder if they would have rejected it in this case with the coin being BETTER than advertised? That would have sucked.
4. As others mentioned, not being able to combine shipping sucks and is a limitation that makes no sense.
5. I'm sure the program is a net benefit or a wash for ebay by eliminating claims on expensive items and adding sales volume and finally "doing something" about fake coins (at least the ones above $500).
6. It saves me money on shipping because shipping to LA from PHX is cheaper than to the East coast, and I can consider forgoing signatures or express shipping because mail from PHX-LA pretty much just takes one day anyway regardless of service level. And any old basic packaging will do because ebay will repackage it.
7. PCGS/ebay authenticated a coin I sold on Labor Day, which was unexpected.
2 purchases so far. Both will have taken in excess of 12 days from payment to delivery.
The presentation boxes are lovely, but they would lead me to believe I ordered the coin from PCGS. Are they just disposing of the sellers’ invoices/business cards, etc?
I live 20 miles from Dave Kahn as the crow flies……the fact that i cannot opt out of a program that would require my (hypothetical) eBay purchases to go from Maryland to CA and then back to VA seems heavy handed to say the least.
I don’t fault eBay for trying to improve their landscape but I’d love to see this program become a $5 service the buyer opts into…….or remain a free service that can be opted out.
2 purchases so far. Both will have taken in excess of 12 days from payment to delivery.
The presentation boxes are lovely, but they would lead me to believe I ordered the coin from PCGS. Are they just disposing of the sellers’ invoices/business cards, etc?
I live 20 miles from Dave Kahn as the crow flies……the fact that i cannot opt out of a program that would require my (hypothetical) eBay purchases to go from Maryland to CA and then back to VA seems heavy handed to say the least.
I don’t fault eBay for trying to improve their landscape but I’d love to see this program become a $5 service the buyer opts into…….or remain a free service that can be opted out.
So, there's a buyer opt out. I'm a scammer, so I offer a 20% discount to opt out.
Personally, I'd rather have control. Why not a seller opt out also? But, that said, eBay has 5 years experience with this, I trust they know what they are doing.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Since I have been banned by PSGC I am now getting eBay jumping on the bandwagon.
I just received an email from eBay declaring that one of my Washington quarters is a counterfeit. It is not counterfeit. Nevertheless, eBay canceled the listing and then provided a roundabout, confusing explanation of how I am supposedly expected to resolve the issue. The instructions make little sense and offer no clear, direct appeal process.
So here we go. eBay is now apparently making authenticity judgments, canceling legitimate coin listings, and placing the burden on the seller to prove that its decision was wrong. This means more paperwork, more wasted time, more aggravation, and yet another obstacle for legitimate collectors trying to sell genuine coins.
Instead of making coin transactions safer and easier, eBay is creating a bigger burden and a major pain for honest collectors simply trying to list their coins.
@BEBPE said:
Well, it has officially begun—with me.
Since I have been banned by PSGC I am now getting eBay jumping on the bandwagon.
I just received an email from eBay declaring that one of my Washington quarters is a counterfeit. It is not counterfeit. Nevertheless, eBay canceled the listing and then provided a roundabout, confusing explanation of how I am supposedly expected to resolve the issue. The instructions make little sense and offer no clear, direct appeal process.
So here we go. eBay is now apparently making authenticity judgments, canceling legitimate coin listings, and placing the burden on the seller to prove that its decision was wrong. This means more paperwork, more wasted time, more aggravation, and yet another obstacle for legitimate collectors trying to sell genuine coins.
Instead of making coin transactions safer and easier, eBay is creating a bigger burden and a major pain for honest collectors simply trying to list their coins.
@BEBPE said:
Well, it has officially begun—with me.
Since I have been banned by PSGC I am now getting eBay jumping on the bandwagon.
I just received an email from eBay declaring that one of my Washington quarters is a counterfeit. It is not counterfeit. Nevertheless, eBay canceled the listing and then provided a roundabout, confusing explanation of how I am supposedly expected to resolve the issue. The instructions make little sense and offer no clear, direct appeal process.
So here we go. eBay is now apparently making authenticity judgments, canceling legitimate coin listings, and placing the burden on the seller to prove that its decision was wrong. This means more paperwork, more wasted time, more aggravation, and yet another obstacle for legitimate collectors trying to sell genuine coins.
Instead of making coin transactions safer and easier, eBay is creating a bigger burden and a major pain for honest collectors simply trying to list their coins.
I'm unclear on whether a coin actually went through the Authenticity Guarantee process, or if eBay just cancelled an active listing with claims it was a counterfeit coin. Did you actually sell a coin and then ship to the address as instructed?
I finally learned what triggered this: PCGS apparently objected to the generic plastic holder I used to protect and present the coin because it resembles an NGC-style slab, and PCGS then designated or reported the coin as counterfeit. That is simply not true.
I use these holders because they protect the coin, make it more presentable, and provide the buyer with attractive packaging when it is shipped. The holder does not display the NGC name, logo, certification number, barcode, hologram, or trademark. I never claimed that the coin was graded or certified by NGC, PCGS, or any other grading service.
Based on my repeated experiences with PCGS, I increasingly feel that I have been blackballed, banned, or declared persona non grata. It appears that PCGS now looks for fault in virtually anything I do and goes out of its way to interfere with or damage my ability to buy, grade, and sell coins.
Labeling this genuine coin as counterfeit merely because it is housed in a generic, NGC-looking protective holder is an unreasonable and damaging mischaracterization. The holder bears only my own identification and was intended solely for protection and presentation. It was never represented as an NGC or PCGS slab.
@BEBPE said:
I finally learned what triggered this: PCGS apparently objected to the generic plastic holder I used to protect and present the coin because it resembles an NGC-style slab, and PCGS then designated or reported the coin as counterfeit. That is simply not true.
I use these holders because they protect the coin, make it more presentable, and provide the buyer with attractive packaging when it is shipped. The holder does not display the NGC name, logo, certification number, barcode, hologram, or trademark. I never claimed that the coin was graded or certified by NGC, PCGS, or any other grading service.
Based on my repeated experiences with PCGS, I increasingly feel that I have been blackballed, banned, or declared persona non grata. It appears that PCGS now looks for fault in virtually anything I do and goes out of its way to interfere with or damage my ability to buy, grade, and sell coins.
Labeling this genuine coin as counterfeit merely because it is housed in a generic, NGC-looking protective holder is an unreasonable and damaging mischaracterization. The holder bears only my own identification and was intended solely for protection and presentation. It was never represented as an NGC or PCGS slab.
Now I need to see this slab/coin. Is it the exact look of an NGC slab?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Presented below are four 1953-S Franklin half dollars. I currently own three of these coins and am negotiating to purchase the fourth. All four are graded MS65 or better.
Please vote for the coin you believe has the strongest and best-defined Full Bell Lines. Consider the continuity, separation, and completeness of the lines across the entire bell, including the areas around the bell crack and beneath the clapper.
Please rank all four coins if possible and explain what you see. Any comments, observations, criticisms, or suggestions are welcome.
The purpose is to have an open, objective discussion based solely on the visible quality of the bell lines, not the grading service, assigned numerical grade, or designation shown on the holder.
@BEBPE said:
Well, it has officially begun—with me.
Since I have been banned by PSGC I am now getting eBay jumping on the bandwagon.
I just received an email from eBay declaring that one of my Washington quarters is a counterfeit. It is not counterfeit. Nevertheless, eBay canceled the listing and then provided a roundabout, confusing explanation of how I am supposedly expected to resolve the issue. The instructions make little sense and offer no clear, direct appeal process.
So here we go. eBay is now apparently making authenticity judgments, canceling legitimate coin listings, and placing the burden on the seller to prove that its decision was wrong. This means more paperwork, more wasted time, more aggravation, and yet another obstacle for legitimate collectors trying to sell genuine coins.
Instead of making coin transactions safer and easier, eBay is creating a bigger burden and a major pain for honest collectors simply trying to list their coins.
I'm on the side of eBay and PCGS.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
They do not want me to go away mad, ** JUST** go away. I do not believe they value a lowly collector. They only only want high volume dealers.
I believe I have effectively been blackballed by PCGS because I forcefully complained about its repeated mistakes. During the past two months, I submitted five orders, and PCGS mishandled four of them. That does not include the second submission of my 1953-S Franklin half dollar for reconsideration of the Full Bell Lines designation. The first submission took over 20 days to be received damaged and returned
I specifically paid for Walkthrough reconsideration because I believe the coin clearly qualifies for Full Bell Lines. PCGS initially told me that the submission had been processed as a reholder rather than a reconsideration. PCGS later reversed that explanation and claimed that the coin had, in fact, received reconsideration and had not been reholdered.
I do not find that second explanation credible. The extraordinary speed with which the coin moved through PCGS’s system creates serious doubt that it received a proper reconsideration. This was extremely unusual and completely out of character for a company that frequently takes several days merely to receive and enter coins into its system.
According to the order history, this coin passed through receipt, the claimed reconsideration or reholder processing, quality-control checks, and preparation for return shipment in less than one day. Walkthrough service was supposed to take approximately five business days, yet the entire process was reportedly completed almost immediately.
I called and emailed PCGS multiple times seeking an explanation and an opportunity to discuss what had been done. PCGS did not return my calls or respond to my emails until approximately three days later. By then, the coin had already been shipped back to me by Next Day Air. PCGS’s decision to ship the coin immediately eliminated any meaningful opportunity for follow-up, clarification, or corrective action before the coin left its facility.
Based on the less-than-one-day processing time, PCGS’s contradictory explanations, and the fact that the coin was shipped before anyone responded to my repeated calls and emails, I do not believe the coin received the careful and genuine reconsideration for which I paid. PCGS accepted my payment, but I have seen no credible evidence that the Full Bell Lines designation was properly evaluated.
@BEBPE there are two things here; first you are in the wrong thread for the Franklin half questions and second you are making yourself look like a troll or extraordinarily difficult person to deal with if you don't at least give a link to what you believe is your persecuted ebay listing.
@TomB said: @BEBPE there are two things here; first you are in the wrong thread for the Franklin half questions and second you are making yourself look like a troll or extraordinarily difficult person to deal with if you don't at least give a link to what you believe is your persecuted ebay listing.
Third thing: Enough with the overly verbose AI slop on nearly every post. Not only does it make you look like a troll, it makes you look a scammy, uneducated troll.
Comments
I think there are direct cost recovery, as you point out. But it also helps more sales to occur because of greater trust in the platform.
As you say, they've done it with cards for almost 5 years but also sneakers, watches, and IIRC handbags.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I think this will ultimately turn some coin collector traffic away. I dont disagree with what ebay is doing. I just dont think people are that patient and will look for quicker avenues to make purchases.
Places like GC, HA, Stacks etc...
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan MWallace logger7 JWP BruceS bigjpst
JWP PROMETHIUS88
I think it will attract more than it loses.
GC, HA etc take just as long or longer if you consider the first appearance of the item and not when the hammer comes down, it could be weeks before you get the item relative to when you first saw it.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
My direct experience with PCGS customer service has been incredibly slow, incompetent, indifferent, and apparently biased against individual collectors. Telephone calls and messages have gone unanswered, complaints have not received meaningful responses, and submissions have not always received the services or attention requested.
That record raises a serious practical concern about the eBay program. Adding PCGS as an intermediary between an eBay seller and buyer introduces another shipping destination, another inspection process, and another organization that must accurately receive, document, process, and forward the coin.
Given PCGS’s customer-service and order-processing problems, this additional step may unnecessarily delay delivery of coins purchased through the open market. If a coin is misplaced, incorrectly identified, damaged, or delayed during inspection, buyers and sellers may be forced to depend upon the same slow and unresponsive customer-service system that I have already experienced.
Collectors are paying substantial amounts of money for these coins. They should not have to wait additional days or weeks because eBay has inserted PCGS into a transaction that was otherwise directly between a willing buyer and seller. This is particularly objectionable when the coin has already been authenticated and graded by NGC or another recognized grading service.
page 2
I would appreciate a direct explanation of:
1. Whether buyers can decline PCGS authentication on eligible eBay purchases.
2. How much additional delivery time PCGS authentication is expected to add.
3. What procedures exist when PCGS delays, damages, misidentifies, or loses an eBay purchase.
4. Why previously purchased TrueView images do not automatically remain available to the current owner of the certified coin.
5. What PCGS will do to make existing TrueView images available to subsequent owners.
6. Which published PCGS fee schedule and declared-value limits are controlling.
7. How PCGS could have seriously reconsidered my 1953-S Franklin half dollar for Full Bell Lines while an adhesive label remained over the bell-line area.
8. How PCGS intends to improve its responsiveness and fairness toward individual collectors.
9. How PCGS intends to restore confidence when its published policies, customer service, and actual order processing do not agree.
eBay should only send counterfeit coins for authentication so that the authentic ones are not delayed by the authentication process? Wouldn't that require a pre-authentication examination in order that authentic coins are not sent for authentication?
Not every coin/slab on eBay has already been authenticated and graded by NGC or another recognized grading service. There's still the counterfeits, they need to be weeded out. That's sort of the purpose of the whole exercise.
An Unnecessary and Revenue-Driven Process
Both PCGS and NGC already provide online certification-verification services. Before purchasing a certified coin, a buyer can enter its certification number on the grading company’s website and confirm the coin’s date, mintmark, denomination, grade, designation, and holder information.
PCGS could make that verification substantially more effective by permanently displaying every high-resolution obverse and reverse image taken through TrueView or Gold Shield on the coin’s certification-verification page. Potential buyers would then be able to compare both sides of the coin offered for sale with PCGS’s own official photographs. They could examine the coin’s marks, toning, strike characteristics, surface features, and holder information to determine whether the coin being advertised is the same coin PCGS originally certified.
These images would also help buyers identify counterfeit coins, altered holders, mismatched certification numbers, misleading photographs, and listings in which the seller is not offering the actual certified coin shown in PCGS’s records. Just as importantly, buyers could see exactly what they are purchasing before sending thousands—or tens of thousands—of dollars to a seller.
PCGS has already taken these photographs, and in many cases a collector paid specifically for TrueView or Gold Shield imaging. Every available photograph should remain permanently connected to the certification number and accessible to the coin’s current owner and prospective buyers. Access should not disappear simply because ownership changes or because the photographs were originally ordered by a previous submitter.
I recognize that eBay’s new program adds a physical comparison of the coin and holder with the listing. However, if PCGS consistently provided complete, high-resolution obverse and reverse images for every TrueView and Gold Shield coin, buyers could perform a meaningful comparison themselves before completing a purchase. This would greatly reduce—if not eliminate—the claimed need for PCGS to physically insert itself between an eBay buyer and seller.
Instead, PCGS is creating an additional shipping destination, inspection step, expense, delay, and risk while failing to make full use of the verification tools and photographs it already possesses. From my perspective, this appears to be another attempt by PCGS to insert itself into collectors’ private-market purchases and generate additional revenue from transactions that PCGS did not originate.
If PCGS wants to increase its business, it should earn that business by improving grading consistency, order accuracy, turnaround performance, customer service, and access to the TrueView and Gold Shield photographs collectors have already paid for. Revenue should come from collectors voluntarily choosing PCGS because of excellent service—not from inserting PCGS as an unnecessary intermediary between buyers and sellers on eBay.
⇈ Off topic sour grapes expressed towards PCGS with a couple of on topic questions sprinkled in.
BTW, TrueViews are available to those who do not own the coin anymore.
Anybody can get all the pictures they want of authentic certified coins. In order to confirm that the image of a coin listed for sale on the internet is the one that a buyer will receive, somebody needs to examine the coin in hand.
Do all certified coins from the TPG's listed below have corresponding pictures when doing a certification lookup?
From the program FAQS Section:
For graded coins, eligible coins must be graded by one of the following companies:
Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS)
Numismatic Guaranty Company (NGC)
Certified Acceptance Corporation Grading (CACG)
American Numismatic Association Certification (ANACS)
Independent Coin Graders (ICG)
No, not "all certified coins" have corresponding pictures when doing a certification lookup.
It's amazing how suddenly they trust everyone on ebay! 😆
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Desert Moon has an across-the-board high quality inventory. The typical ebay seller inventory is riddled with shlock.
A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.
Albert Einstein
Even if that's so ("schlock" often means "things I'm not interested in and have no idea of what their value might be", BTW), does the typical eBay buyer buy everything in a seller's inventory? Or do they select only the item(s) they think are "high quality"?
There are plenty of eBay sellers who have similar quality coins for sale.
And even much better coins for sale.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
They'll dislike it till they get scammed.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Got my first coin bought through the program today. It was mailed from San Diego on Sep 14 and got to me in Phoenix a week later. Here are my thoughts on this:
1. The extra delay sucks. Would like the ability as a buyer to opt out if I trust the seller, even if it meant waiving some rights or guarantees.
2. I was looking at a dubious coin earlier today but then I realized I didn't need to fear because it would be authenticated which was an encouragement to go ahead and pull the trigger (even thought I decided not to).
3. In my case I had to buy the coin twice because the coin I bought was MS65 but the title said MS64. I knew what I was getting, but I wonder if they would have rejected it in this case with the coin being BETTER than advertised? That would have sucked.
4. As others mentioned, not being able to combine shipping sucks and is a limitation that makes no sense.
5. I'm sure the program is a net benefit or a wash for ebay by eliminating claims on expensive items and adding sales volume and finally "doing something" about fake coins (at least the ones above $500).
6. It saves me money on shipping because shipping to LA from PHX is cheaper than to the East coast, and I can consider forgoing signatures or express shipping because mail from PHX-LA pretty much just takes one day anyway regardless of service level. And any old basic packaging will do because ebay will repackage it.
7. PCGS/ebay authenticated a coin I sold on Labor Day, which was unexpected.
I’m on the East Coast……
2 purchases so far. Both will have taken in excess of 12 days from payment to delivery.
The presentation boxes are lovely, but they would lead me to believe I ordered the coin from PCGS. Are they just disposing of the sellers’ invoices/business cards, etc?
I live 20 miles from Dave Kahn as the crow flies……the fact that i cannot opt out of a program that would require my (hypothetical) eBay purchases to go from Maryland to CA and then back to VA seems heavy handed to say the least.
I don’t fault eBay for trying to improve their landscape but I’d love to see this program become a $5 service the buyer opts into…….or remain a free service that can be opted out.
So, there's a buyer opt out. I'm a scammer, so I offer a 20% discount to opt out.
Personally, I'd rather have control. Why not a seller opt out also? But, that said, eBay has 5 years experience with this, I trust they know what they are doing.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
But, that said, eBay has 5 years experience with this, I trust they know what they are doing.
Are you sure? People keep finding problems with the program.
Well, it has officially begun—with me.
Since I have been banned by PSGC I am now getting eBay jumping on the bandwagon.
I just received an email from eBay declaring that one of my Washington quarters is a counterfeit. It is not counterfeit. Nevertheless, eBay canceled the listing and then provided a roundabout, confusing explanation of how I am supposedly expected to resolve the issue. The instructions make little sense and offer no clear, direct appeal process.
So here we go. eBay is now apparently making authenticity judgments, canceling legitimate coin listings, and placing the burden on the seller to prove that its decision was wrong. This means more paperwork, more wasted time, more aggravation, and yet another obstacle for legitimate collectors trying to sell genuine coins.
Instead of making coin transactions safer and easier, eBay is creating a bigger burden and a major pain for honest collectors simply trying to list their coins.
Can we see this declared counterfeit quarter?
I'm unclear on whether a coin actually went through the Authenticity Guarantee process, or if eBay just cancelled an active listing with claims it was a counterfeit coin. Did you actually sell a coin and then ship to the address as instructed?
I finally learned what triggered this: PCGS apparently objected to the generic plastic holder I used to protect and present the coin because it resembles an NGC-style slab, and PCGS then designated or reported the coin as counterfeit. That is simply not true.
I use these holders because they protect the coin, make it more presentable, and provide the buyer with attractive packaging when it is shipped. The holder does not display the NGC name, logo, certification number, barcode, hologram, or trademark. I never claimed that the coin was graded or certified by NGC, PCGS, or any other grading service.
Based on my repeated experiences with PCGS, I increasingly feel that I have been blackballed, banned, or declared persona non grata. It appears that PCGS now looks for fault in virtually anything I do and goes out of its way to interfere with or damage my ability to buy, grade, and sell coins.
Labeling this genuine coin as counterfeit merely because it is housed in a generic, NGC-looking protective holder is an unreasonable and damaging mischaracterization. The holder bears only my own identification and was intended solely for protection and presentation. It was never represented as an NGC or PCGS slab.
Now I need to see this slab/coin. Is it the exact look of an NGC slab?
Also, why are you banned at PCGS?
Cheers!
@BEBPE Can we get some pics of this coin?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I am looking for feedback from the group.
Presented below are four 1953-S Franklin half dollars. I currently own three of these coins and am negotiating to purchase the fourth. All four are graded MS65 or better.
Please vote for the coin you believe has the strongest and best-defined Full Bell Lines. Consider the continuity, separation, and completeness of the lines across the entire bell, including the areas around the bell crack and beneath the clapper.
Please rank all four coins if possible and explain what you see. Any comments, observations, criticisms, or suggestions are welcome.
The purpose is to have an open, objective discussion based solely on the visible quality of the bell lines, not the grading service, assigned numerical grade, or designation shown on the holder.
Coin 1
Coin 2
Coin 3
Coin 4
sorry 3 and 4 are the same coin.
Here is 3
You’re doing a disservice to yourself and others by changing the subject of this thread to your questions about the Franklin halves.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm on the side of eBay and PCGS.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
They do not want me to go away mad, ** JUST** go away. I do not believe they value a lowly collector. They only only want high volume dealers.
I believe I have effectively been blackballed by PCGS because I forcefully complained about its repeated mistakes. During the past two months, I submitted five orders, and PCGS mishandled four of them. That does not include the second submission of my 1953-S Franklin half dollar for reconsideration of the Full Bell Lines designation. The first submission took over 20 days to be received damaged and returned
I specifically paid for Walkthrough reconsideration because I believe the coin clearly qualifies for Full Bell Lines. PCGS initially told me that the submission had been processed as a reholder rather than a reconsideration. PCGS later reversed that explanation and claimed that the coin had, in fact, received reconsideration and had not been reholdered.
I do not find that second explanation credible. The extraordinary speed with which the coin moved through PCGS’s system creates serious doubt that it received a proper reconsideration. This was extremely unusual and completely out of character for a company that frequently takes several days merely to receive and enter coins into its system.
According to the order history, this coin passed through receipt, the claimed reconsideration or reholder processing, quality-control checks, and preparation for return shipment in less than one day. Walkthrough service was supposed to take approximately five business days, yet the entire process was reportedly completed almost immediately.
I called and emailed PCGS multiple times seeking an explanation and an opportunity to discuss what had been done. PCGS did not return my calls or respond to my emails until approximately three days later. By then, the coin had already been shipped back to me by Next Day Air. PCGS’s decision to ship the coin immediately eliminated any meaningful opportunity for follow-up, clarification, or corrective action before the coin left its facility.
Based on the less-than-one-day processing time, PCGS’s contradictory explanations, and the fact that the coin was shipped before anyone responded to my repeated calls and emails, I do not believe the coin received the careful and genuine reconsideration for which I paid. PCGS accepted my payment, but I have seen no credible evidence that the Full Bell Lines designation was properly evaluated.
@BEBPE there are two things here; first you are in the wrong thread for the Franklin half questions and second you are making yourself look like a troll or extraordinarily difficult person to deal with if you don't at least give a link to what you believe is your persecuted ebay listing.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Third thing: Enough with the overly verbose AI slop on nearly every post. Not only does it make you look like a troll, it makes you look a scammy, uneducated troll.
If you're going to troll, at least be funny.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
PCGS too slow- people complain.
PCGS too fast- people complain.