Local Coin Show Find: I almost never buy raw coins, but...
P0CKETCHANGE
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At a small local show this morning, I was pretty surprised to come across an 1876 Philly issue double dime. At a mintage of just 14,750, is by far the scarcest circulation strike to find (outside the ultra-rare 76-CC).
I own very few raw classic coins and have never owned a raw 20c piece, not even a slick. This one has surely been messed with, but for a details coin it's got decent eye appeal and the seller offered it at a price that I couldn't pass up. 
The fields have a flashy reflective quality to them. I think it's a semi-PL or PL business strike (with the low mintage, many of the examples were struck off fresh dies), but the thought of it being a low grade proof crossed my mind.
I've attributed the coin as BF-4, which is a die pairing that was discovered after the publication of the Double Dime book (which is available in its entirely at www.doubledimes.com ). From the book's 2016 addendum:
While proofs & circulation strikes were struck from the same dies, and the text says BF-4 "proofs are very rare", I found a PCGS Proof Genuine example that sold on GC just a few months ago with the exact same die pairing.
And here's video showing the in-hand look of the coin. Sorry for the jerky images; the original videos got compressed when converting to a filetype that the forum accepts. Any and all thoughts on the coin are welcome. 
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Comments
Unfortunate about the cleaning in the obv fields, still a nice album coin.
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She is pretty flashy. I don't have any experience with proofs, but I would expect a sharper rim edge if it was a proof. Unfortunate about the hairlines, but it is a nice looking coin. Nice pickup.
Nice! Many of us, myself included, don't do a ton with raw coins but it's super gratifying to find a tough one raw for a good price. Well done 👍🏼
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I once bought a gold dollar in a PL ANACS old white holder. I thought the coin wasn't PL, it was an actual proof. We cracked the coin out and the edge left no doubt, it was a proof and PCGS slabbed it as such.
I think the same thing would be true about this 20c, the edge would go a long way in saying proof or not.
Maybe I should start going to local shows more often! Great pickup Eric - that’s one of your specialties, so EXTRA GREAT!
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My gut says Proof, but either way great find!
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Thats a cool catch, jmo ( I like ) 👍
I wonder if that 1876 double dime was in a "cleaned" details slab and the dealer cracked it out thinking he could get a better price for it raw. In any case, it's a neat and attractive coin from America's centennial year.
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@POCKETCHANGE. Great post and a great coin. One of my favorite coins has golden devices and steel blue fields but is deservedly in a Details holder. I have never seen such a flashy coin with such a natural look in a details holder before. People, (and graders), do make mistakes. I just wonder; no money out of my pocket, but wow that is a stunning piece. James
Was it in a “details” slab when you bought it?
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No, it was in a plastic flip labeled MS61.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
I'm guessing impaired proof.
No doubt someone has sent it in for grading at least once, more likely more than that. Worth as much as $2K as an Unc. straight grade as unlikely as that may be. https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1876-20c/5304 PLs are worth a lot more but since they don't do "PL" details, you'd need it to go straight: https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1876-20c-pl/85299
It'll be an interesting study project for me. I just compared it against my PR64 example, and surprisingly, that one also appears to be the BF-4 die pairing (which Brunner & Frost said would be "very rare" as a proof, but it is unquestionably proof).
My initial educated guess is still a semi-PL or PL business strike. The rims, which several commenters mentioned as a good diagnostic, do not appear to be as squared off as my PR64.
PCGS has certified one PL example, NGC has certified a few. Pretty much all of them are low MS. I doubt I'll want to play expensive games with the TPGs, but we'll see where I land after I do more research.
For reference, here's the sole PCGS 61PL example and the Proof Genuine example I mentioned in my OP.
I think my coin resembles the PL example more, although the die pairing matches the PR Genuine. The PR Genuine example's rims do not look squared off, however, although the mirrors look deeper.
There seems to be a lot of confusion distinguishing between proofs and business strikes on coins that use the same dies for both strike types, similar to many of the gold dollars.
61PL (not BF-4)
PR Genuine, Altered Surfaces, UNC Detail (also BF-4)
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Scratches in obv fields - no go for me.
I like that a lot. As a collector, I don't mind buying nice raw examples... even ones with slight problems. I've got a "general" dansco album with plastic pocket sleeves for flips or 2X2's that I just keep stuff in. Over the years, it's a fun album to flip through and go "oh yeah, that's a nice one".
Of course there’s doubt - even if not substantial - as to whether the coin has been submitted for grading at least once. You’ve been on this forum long enough to have seen a large number of much more valuable coins enter the marketplace for the first time in years or decades and get graded for the first time.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Chances are it has been submitted; since it was apparently purchased from a show dealer. I know I would have sent it in. At HA you see a lot of raw collections coming into the marketplace for the first time. Every dealer I know is looking to maximize their profit on inventory and you do that by getting the coins graded.
In fact it would be numismatic malpractice for someone in your position to not get coins graded and possibly sent to cac before they are sold at Heritage. Are you telling us that it is your practice or the practice of dealers you know not to get coins graded worth over $1000?
Assuming that's true, I'd be curious to know the grading result(s) that led to the dealer cracking the coin and offering it raw. From my estimation of the coin and market values, it should realize more in a details holder than I paid.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
I actually just called the dealer and asked him. He said he never sent this one in. Sure, it's possible he wasn't being truthful, but that's less likely given we've already consummated the sale and I bought it knowingly at details pricing.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
I have handled PL designated Seated coinage in the past (but sadly not double dimes), and while mirrored, the mirrors of your coin have a much deeper quality. Often on a PL business strike, there is hidden luster in protected areas. I'm not seeing that on this coin at all. If it is a business strike, then I suspect it has been graded as a details coin with altered surfaces. My deep gut, however, is that we are looking at an impaired proof. The quality of mirrors on your coin is very different from what I have experienced on the PL pieces I've owned in the past - that's across Seated half dimes, dimes, quarters, and half dollars of the same era. I suppose double dimes could have some differences, but I doubt PL double dimes would be that much different than PL coinage for the rest of the Seated series.
Edited: I'm basing my comments on the video which show deeper mirrors than the still shots.
If it were me, I would use the PCGS number for a proof and throw it in an economy submission and see what happens.
If I do end up deciding to grade it, I was considering leaning towards NGC. My gut is NGC may be the better choice for a borderline coin, and they've also graded more PL examples of this date, but interested to hear opinions.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Unfortunately I haven't submitted to NGC since it was bought out by a private equity firm. I wouldn't be of help to you there. Are you going to any major coin shows in the future? Maybe one of the major Seated experts will have a table and you can ask them their thoughts.
If you're just looking to get it in plastic, from the coins I've seen on GC, ICG seems really loose right now.
I'll probably bring it to FUN in January. Hopefully can show it to John Frost.
The video in my OP probably shows the mirrors at their most reflective; in other lighting they are a bit more dull, but not as dull as the stills. They are sharply reflecting text, however, which is kind of cool:
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Not a proof.