@IkesT you've been awfully quiet the past few days... Hopefully you're enjoying a nice three day weekend.
Trudging forward --> Interesting observation now that I have the face rotation range for the 1956 and figured out some of the stages. I believe these three are the same stage (post heavy lapping; lower leaf lapped off).
You can see the "wheel mark" very well on 127123369. Once the E/W running process marks are hammered into the metal flow, it looks like a flat roll mark right over the breast. I mean it really looks like a flattened roll over the chest of 127123369.
THEORY: The process marks on the High Relief variety are different than the process marks on the lower relief "normal" Washington Quarters. These dies were in different tooling, working on different machines, at different stations. Even if the Mint workers followed the same procedures for maintaining the High Relief and "normal" Quarter dies (likely), the process marks would be different due to (A) the dies being high relief, and (B) the stations being different (e.g. different table height, thus slightly different polish angle with the same motion).
It's not conclusive, but it does appear that many TPGS "wheel marked" coins are actually fresh process marks from heavy lapping + polishing. Will need to study other years from the High Relief business strike series to further confirm the process markers. Then big resubmission order time.
Fresh process marks from heavy lapping + polishing would be on the die before striking and identical on many coins. Wheel marks are made after striking and although some look similar in location, they are not the same.
Thanks Davewesen. I would have called those three above exactly the same. The mark on the neck looks the same to me. The flat relief on 2409 and 1271 looks like how over polishing would flatten out. But fair point that neither has the exact same lines. Your view may be the better one here...
I made an App for comparing coins. Check it out. Its still a bit buggy. PCGS import from web requires entering a PCGS API key. The App works best dragging and dropping CACG orders from the desktop (unzip then drag and drop all photos).
You can import most of the coins mentioned in this thread (lower resolution) by pasting the certificates listed below into the library.
Again, drag and drop high resolution photos from the desktop works best. The certificate number must be in the file name. API key required to import PCGS photos.
@davewesen said:
Fresh process marks from heavy lapping + polishing would be on the die before striking and identical on many coins. Wheel marks are made after striking and although some look similar in location, they are not the same.
Okay, I think we got it now... Struck through grease. Final answer.
You can actually see some struck through retained on two of them. I thought it was lapping at first, but it's grease...
A counting wheel would ride on top of the design. If the lines on the wing were from a wheel, they should sit on the crest of the wing and leave the valleys alone. They do the opposite. Think about it.
Comments
You shout too much.
Is this sudden push to buy wheel-marked coins related to another numismatic fantasy?
The signs are starting to look familiar.
An aside to the wheel mark correction...
Sorry. Not intended to be read as shouting. I will take that into consideration.
@IkesT you've been awfully quiet the past few days... Hopefully you're enjoying a nice three day weekend.
Trudging forward --> Interesting observation now that I have the face rotation range for the 1956 and figured out some of the stages. I believe these three are the same stage (post heavy lapping; lower leaf lapped off).
You can see the "wheel mark" very well on 127123369. Once the E/W running process marks are hammered into the metal flow, it looks like a flat roll mark right over the breast. I mean it really looks like a flattened roll over the chest of 127123369.
THEORY: The process marks on the High Relief variety are different than the process marks on the lower relief "normal" Washington Quarters. These dies were in different tooling, working on different machines, at different stations. Even if the Mint workers followed the same procedures for maintaining the High Relief and "normal" Quarter dies (likely), the process marks would be different due to (A) the dies being high relief, and (B) the stations being different (e.g. different table height, thus slightly different polish angle with the same motion).
It's not conclusive, but it does appear that many TPGS "wheel marked" coins are actually fresh process marks from heavy lapping + polishing. Will need to study other years from the High Relief business strike series to further confirm the process markers. Then big resubmission order time.
Fresh process marks from heavy lapping + polishing would be on the die before striking and identical on many coins. Wheel marks are made after striking and although some look similar in location, they are not the same.
Thanks Davewesen. I would have called those three above exactly the same. The mark on the neck looks the same to me. The flat relief on 2409 and 1271 looks like how over polishing would flatten out. But fair point that neither has the exact same lines. Your view may be the better one here...
I made an App for comparing coins. Check it out. Its still a bit buggy. PCGS import from web requires entering a PCGS API key. The App works best dragging and dropping CACG orders from the desktop (unzip then drag and drop all photos).
You can import most of the coins mentioned in this thread (lower resolution) by pasting the certificates listed below into the library.
diebench.grok.me
1956 CACG Certificates (paste into library lookup; will return lower resolution photos)
10229431
91509157
98951558
113386710
127123369
146610022
173869079
175131552
181472083
211441903
240911468
270077906
344783560
512221106
681132919
811327064
841305108
881748303
1962 FS-901 / 1963 FS-901a CACG Certificates (will return lower resolution photos).
317783541
526244746
654732066
703704820
733580197
846693054
13488065
96193284
369451440
Again, drag and drop high resolution photos from the desktop works best. The certificate number must be in the file name. API key required to import PCGS photos.
The link above might be broken. diebench.grok.me (paste into URL).
Okay, I think we got it now... Struck through grease. Final answer.
You can actually see some struck through retained on two of them. I thought it was lapping at first, but it's grease...
A counting wheel would ride on top of the design. If the lines on the wing were from a wheel, they should sit on the crest of the wing and leave the valleys alone. They do the opposite. Think about it.