While I'm neither of the folks that @oreville wants to hear from I will still give an opinion.
I'd guess the fact that the 1919 was a part of Stuart's massive high end collection really drove participation and a willingness to spend big to obtain the best pieces or those pieces that were squirreled away for many years. This coin lost both of those potential buzz enhancers in that it was not sold alongside those other monsters and it had just appeared on its own very recently.
@TomB said:
While I'm neither of the folks that @oreville wants to hear from I will still give an opinion.
I'd guess the fact that the 1919 was a part of Stuart's massive high end collection really drove participation and a willingness to spend big to obtain the best pieces or those pieces that were squirreled away for many years. This coin lost both of those potential buzz enhancers in that it was not sold alongside those other monsters and it had just appeared on its own very recently.
@TomB said:
While I'm neither of the folks that @oreville wants to hear from I will still give an opinion.
I'd guess the fact that the 1919 was a part of Stuart's massive high end collection really drove participation and a willingness to spend big to obtain the best pieces or those pieces that were squirreled away for many years. This coin lost both of those potential buzz enhancers in that it was not sold alongside those other monsters and it had just appeared on its own very recently.
A good start. I realize that these are just opinions.
@oreville said:
Only asking for opinions of others as well.
Perhaps the coin was burned as people saw that it didn’t make the reserve at $275,000 I believe when it was offered approximately 6-8 weeks earlier. Perhaps a big mistake to offer it with a reserve
@oreville said:
Only asking for opinions of others as well.
Perhaps the coin was burned as people saw that it didn’t make the reserve at $275,000 I believe when it was offered approximately 6-8 weeks earlier. Perhaps a big mistake to offer it with a reserve
Well, since it sold for 265,000 I'm not sure the 275,000 reserve kept it from getting to 400,000
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@Walkerlover said:
Perhaps the coin was burned as people saw that it didn’t make the reserve at $275,000 I believe when it was offered approximately 6-8 weeks earlier. Perhaps a big mistake to offer it with a reserve
No disrespect to GC, who did a great job selling the original collection, but I agree with @jmlanzaf that another venue may have been a better choice. The coin would have been better marketed and publicized, plus I imagine the fees could have been negotiated as any auction house would love to say they sold the highest graded wheat cent.
@oreville said:
I am only curious as to @tradedollarnut’s and @markfeld’s opinion as to why the Blay 1919 cent in MS-69 sold for much less in the second round than the first round!
Was it:
1) realization that the cent was not CAC stickered?
2) excitement died down in the second round?
3) venue?
4) too quick a re-sale meaning no longer “fresh? “
5) other reasons?
Wow. Thanks for making the rest of us feel included.
This coin is no different than any other top pop coin. There is a limited pool of buyers looking for the very best coins. Sometimes bidders get too exuberant and end up in a bidding war. All it takes is one underbidder to lose interest by settling for another coin (even a lowly 68 or dare I say 67+ RD), to give up collecting, die, etc., and the entire liquidity of the piece can fall markedly. The Registry set market for top pop otherwise widget coins is thinly capitalized.
I also agree with @TomB that the market dynamics were different this time around. Stewart had the finest known set of Wheat Cents, and the sale was much anticipated. It undoubtedly attracted exuberance and the very top Lincoln Cent collectors with fistfuls of cash to spend. This time the coin appeared more or less alone. That is not a criticism of GC, but "named sales" and hoards frequently bring strong prices because they generate more views.
@oreville said:
I am only curious as to @tradedollarnut’s and @markfeld’s opinion as to why the Blay 1919 cent in MS-69 sold for much less in the second round than the first round!
Was it:
1) realization that the cent was not CAC stickered?
2) excitement died down in the second round?
3) venue?
4) too quick a re-sale meaning no longer “fresh? “
5) other reasons?
Wow. Thanks for making the rest of us feel included.
I was not trying to pick on Feld or Morelin or anyone else but at near midnight it was not easy to remember everyone else names.
When the highly collectible (Blay) 1972 Doubled Die Cent resold 2 years later, grading a fabulous MS67+RD CAC, I added it to my Top 100 Modern set at “50 cents on the dollar” compared to the price it fetched in auction #1. A great addition to my set! Other great classic cents suffered a similar (pricing) fate. So, I am not surprised about the 1919 and I’m not sure the venue had anything to do with the price. And, of course, many Blay coins upgraded and sold, or likely will eventually sell, for solid profits. I’m sure the sharp upgraders, overall, did just fine in the sale paying record prices for the premium quality coins. The coins that failed to upgrade and got caught up in the bidding frenzy perhaps didn’t fare as well for the collectors or investors who bought them. Nothing terribly different I believe about this great collection as compared to myriad others that have crossed the auction block over the years.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@Walkerlover said:
If this coin was submitted to PCGS today raw would it grade MS 69? And conversely if it grade 68 or 68+ would it earn a gold sticker at CAC?
Buy it next time it comes around. Crack it out as an experiment, albeit an expensive one.
I agree that what I posted was obvious. And yet, it contradicted something you had posted.
So, maybe you should be addressed as Captain Obvious(ly) Wrong.
It's only Tuesday. Too early for Friday Night Smackdown.
A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.
@oreville said:
I am only curious as to @tradedollarnut’s and @markfeld’s opinion as to why the Blay 1919 cent in MS-69 sold for much less in the second round than the first round!
Was it:
1) realization that the cent was not CAC stickered?
2) excitement died down in the second round?
3) venue?
4) too quick a re-sale meaning no longer “fresh? “
5) other reasons?
Doesn't surprise me in the least with the price of groceries and gas being so high these days.
A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.
A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.
@MasonG said:
That's just silly. Nobody who's concerned about the price of gas and groceries would ever be in the market for a coin like that.
Are you confused or annoyed by my joke? Please give me some more feedback.
A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.
If I may, why would anybody be at all surprised when there is only a downward price change. If it sold for 420k or more nobody would be surprised in the least, but under they are? Doesn't make any sense. I thought $420k for a Lincoln cent was sick and I feel the exact same at a $200k price tag too.
I will take Bruce's 1794 any day of the week if I had the monies to burn, but a 1919, never.
I didn't think TDN was old enough to remember Agnew!
I looked at the coin closely in Pittsburgh - the best part was the OGH.
Gone but not forgotten: IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal, CoinsAreFun.
@wondercoin said:
When the highly collectible (Blay) 1972 Doubled Die Cent resold 2 years later, grading a fabulous MS67+RD CAC, I added it to my Top 100 Modern set at “50 cents on the dollar” compared to the price it fetched in auction #1.
I had a similar experience with my 1954-D Lincoln Cent. The Blay coin sold for $775 hammer on Jan 2023.
I won it on Feb 2025 for $401 hammer
@Walkerlover said:
If this coin was submitted to PCGS today raw would it grade MS 69? And conversely if it grade 68 or 68+ would it earn a gold sticker at CAC?
Buy it next time it comes around. Crack it out as an experiment, albeit an expensive one.
@Walkerlover said:
If this coin was submitted to PCGS today raw would it grade MS 69? And conversely if it grade 68 or 68+ would it earn a gold sticker at CAC?
Buy it next time it comes around. Crack it out as an experiment, albeit an expensive one.
Was the cancer spot on the "D" in "GOD" there when Blay/Blay Estate sold it?
Edited to Add:
There is also some minor spotting behind the head. Of course you can find imperfections on any coin blown up to extreme magnification, and I realize that it is copper and now more than 100 years old. I would, however, be very nervous about owning the coin with the spots. I sure hope it is stable when the next next grade down (68+) has a guide value of $30,000 and MS68 guide value is $18,500.
@Walkerlover said:
If this coin was submitted to PCGS today raw would it grade MS 69? And conversely if it grade 68 or 68+ would it earn a gold sticker at CAC?
Buy it next time it comes around. Crack it out as an experiment, albeit an expensive one.
@MasonG said:
So- you're confused or annoyed by my joke. Got it!
Good one!
A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.
@cameonut2011 said:
Was the cancer spot on the "D" in "GOD" there when Blay/Blay Estate sold it?
Edited to Add:
There is also some minor spotting behind the head. Of course you can find imperfections on any coin blown up to extreme magnification, and I realize that it is copper and now more than 100 years old. I would, however, be very nervous about owning the coin with the spots. I sure hope it is stable when the next next grade down (68+) has a guide value of $30,000 and MS68 guide value is $18,500.
A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.
The GC images from the 2023 sale aren't the greatest, but I don't see spots behind the head. The activity around the D looks worse in the True Views. It could be differences in imaging though.
Comments
.
.
.
Only asking for opinions of others as well.
While I'm neither of the folks that @oreville wants to hear from I will still give an opinion.
I'd guess the fact that the 1919 was a part of Stuart's massive high end collection really drove participation and a willingness to spend big to obtain the best pieces or those pieces that were squirreled away for many years. This coin lost both of those potential buzz enhancers in that it was not sold alongside those other monsters and it had just appeared on its own very recently.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I did like posted opinion about the ghost of Blay trying to buy it back at a deep discount.
A good start. I realize that these are just opinions.
Perhaps the coin was burned as people saw that it didn’t make the reserve at $275,000 I believe when it was offered approximately 6-8 weeks earlier. Perhaps a big mistake to offer it with a reserve
Well, since it sold for 265,000 I'm not sure the 275,000 reserve kept it from getting to 400,000
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Yes
No disrespect to GC, who did a great job selling the original collection, but I agree with @jmlanzaf that another venue may have been a better choice. The coin would have been better marketed and publicized, plus I imagine the fees could have been negotiated as any auction house would love to say they sold the highest graded wheat cent.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Wow. Thanks for making the rest of us feel included.
This coin is no different than any other top pop coin. There is a limited pool of buyers looking for the very best coins. Sometimes bidders get too exuberant and end up in a bidding war. All it takes is one underbidder to lose interest by settling for another coin (even a lowly 68 or dare I say 67+ RD), to give up collecting, die, etc., and the entire liquidity of the piece can fall markedly. The Registry set market for top pop otherwise widget coins is thinly capitalized.
I also agree with @TomB that the market dynamics were different this time around. Stewart had the finest known set of Wheat Cents, and the sale was much anticipated. It undoubtedly attracted exuberance and the very top Lincoln Cent collectors with fistfuls of cash to spend. This time the coin appeared more or less alone. That is not a criticism of GC, but "named sales" and hoards frequently bring strong prices because they generate more views.
Great coin, still sold for a mind-boggling sum: https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1745189/1919-Lincoln-Cent-PCGS-MS-69-RD-CAC-Green-OGH-Ex-Stewart-Blay-Red-Copper
GC is a great place for a flip of a 6 figure coin if you need to move quickly. That's the positive, guess what's negative.
I was not trying to pick on Feld or Morelin or anyone else but at near midnight it was not easy to remember everyone else names.
When the highly collectible (Blay) 1972 Doubled Die Cent resold 2 years later, grading a fabulous MS67+RD CAC, I added it to my Top 100 Modern set at “50 cents on the dollar” compared to the price it fetched in auction #1. A great addition to my set! Other great classic cents suffered a similar (pricing) fate. So, I am not surprised about the 1919 and I’m not sure the venue had anything to do with the price. And, of course, many Blay coins upgraded and sold, or likely will eventually sell, for solid profits. I’m sure the sharp upgraders, overall, did just fine in the sale paying record prices for the premium quality coins. The coins that failed to upgrade and got caught up in the bidding frenzy perhaps didn’t fare as well for the collectors or investors who bought them. Nothing terribly different I believe about this great collection as compared to myriad others that have crossed the auction block over the years.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Glad to see a Spiro Agnew quote take the edge off the petty childishness at play in this coin thread.
Thanks
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
Am I not understanding something? Are there a couple of posters that believe this coin didn’t sticker?
It was, of course, CAC stickered. I read Oreville’s comment earlier (in error).
Wondercoin.
If this coin was submitted to PCGS today raw would it grade MS 69? And conversely if it grade 68 or 68+ would it earn a gold sticker at CAC?
Buy it next time it comes around. Crack it out as an experiment, albeit an expensive one.
It's only Tuesday. Too early for Friday Night Smackdown.
A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.
Albert Einstein
Doesn't surprise me in the least with the price of groceries and gas being so high these days.
A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.
Albert Einstein
That's just silly. Nobody who's concerned about the price of gas and groceries would ever be in the market for a coin like that.
$265K is a lot of concert money...for sure.
A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.
Albert Einstein
There's that old saying: if you have to ask what a Rolls gets for gas mileage, you can't afford a Rolls
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Anyone have an opinion on the long term outlook for the spot on the “D” of “GOD” - is this likely to be stable as-is, or progress to something worse?
Are you confused or annoyed by my joke? Please give me some more feedback.
A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.
Albert Einstein
So- you're confused or annoyed by my joke. Got it!
If I may, why would anybody be at all surprised when there is only a downward price change. If it sold for 420k or more nobody would be surprised in the least, but under they are? Doesn't make any sense. I thought $420k for a Lincoln cent was sick and I feel the exact same at a $200k price tag too.
I will take Bruce's 1794 any day of the week if I had the monies to burn, but a 1919, never.
I didn't think TDN was old enough to remember Agnew!
I looked at the coin closely in Pittsburgh - the best part was the OGH.
I had a similar experience with my 1954-D Lincoln Cent. The Blay coin sold for $775 hammer on Jan 2023.
I won it on Feb 2025 for $401 hammer
Patience pays off
Mike
My Indians
Dansco Set
Can you please finance it for me. Thanks
Was the cancer spot on the "D" in "GOD" there when Blay/Blay Estate sold it?
Edited to Add:
There is also some minor spotting behind the head. Of course you can find imperfections on any coin blown up to extreme magnification, and I realize that it is copper and now more than 100 years old. I would, however, be very nervous about owning the coin with the spots. I sure hope it is stable when the next next grade down (68+) has a guide value of $30,000 and MS68 guide value is $18,500.
I’ll pay the grading fees if that helps.
Good one!
A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.
Albert Einstein
A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.
Albert Einstein
The GC images from the 2023 sale aren't the greatest, but I don't see spots behind the head. The activity around the D looks worse in the True Views. It could be differences in imaging though.