Raufus, thank you for the pictures and relating today's US Mint Store adventure!
Your pictures were very inspiring !
I really like that silver medal ! The female device is nice !
You inspired me to once again mentally toil over a possible purchase.
Fortunately, the soup pot burned while I was doing numbers and reckoning over my sole person 'collector' at significant age etc... Smoke alarm noise , alarm co. call, crazy......
Anyway, I decided to pull out my Intaglio Mint 2 oz silver 1804 modern re-creation.
I basically decided that this was nice enough.
No contest next to the Gold and Silver set, but my silver sample is also ultra-high relief and very finely minted.
I include pictures not to detract from the Gold 1804 re-creation or historical significance being the first time the US Mint has re-created this design, but to add to this thread's interest. (glare and small detractions are the plastic capsule.)
BTW, congratulations to all that bought this beautiful set !!
@bigmountainlion said:
On the payments page, the cheapest option is around $14. I selected that one. Once I received the email, it says shipping was free
samesies 👯🏻♀️
I guess I haven't bought enough items from the Mint as I've been charged $9.95 for shipping. I don't buy much but for this year, I've bought every one of the Best of the Mint gold coins issued so far.
Budget shipping went up to $9.95 maybe two months ago. For this coin it should have defaulted to $13.90 budget shipping with signature. If your 3 BOM purchases have all actually shipped, you would qualify for free budget shipping. I would contact the USM as there have been issues with this.
I bought each of the three previous Best of the Mint coins on the first day they became available and I did choose budget shipping ($13.90) for today's coin at checkout. I got an immediate shipping discount of $3.95 on the order summary which lowered the total cost of shipping to $9.95. On the order confirmation e-mail, it still shows $9.95 for shipping.
I'm going to have to consider if it's worth my time to call the Mint to recover that $10.
I see why I didn't get free shipping on my order while others did. A person becomes a U.S. Mint Loyalty Member when he has three purchases ship in a calendar year and he is signed up to receive e-mail updates. The free shipping lasts for the calendar year. I specifically did not want e-mail updates so I don't qualify.
@Heubschgold said:
Raufus, thank you for the pictures and relating today's US Mint Store adventure!
Your pictures were very inspiring !
I really like that silver medal ! The female device is nice !
You inspired me to once again mentally toil over a possible purchase.
Fortunately, the soup pot burned while I was doing numbers and reckoning over my sole person 'collector' at significant age etc... Smoke alarm noise , alarm co. call, crazy......
Anyway, I decided to pull out my Intaglio Mint 2 oz silver 1804 modern re-creation.
I basically decided that this was nice enough.
No contest next to the Gold and Silver set, but my silver sample is also ultra-high relief and very finely minted.
I include pictures not to detract from the Gold 1804 re-creation or historical significance being the first time the US Mint has re-created this design, but to add to this thread's interest. (glare and small detractions are the plastic capsule.)
BTW, congratulations to all that bought this beautiful set !!
Cancellations after placing an order less than 24 hours ago most likely. They aren't really moving this morning. Will see what the HHL being lifted at noon does
@tahbb143 said:
I dont get many things graded, so it's often years between experiences sending things in
outside of considering not opening box [or bag lol] it's shipped in to maintain longer term option of getting FDOI designation, are there any other callouts or best practices specific to this issue to remember when sending in for grading, or just do a normal submission process?
for example - would I want to open box [or bag lol] to see if I got a signed cert from the mint director to consider getting that slabbed too?
any reccos welcome and appreciated
Not an answer, sorry, but I've been wondering for a while now
...
Do the medal and coin have to go thru separate PCGS orders for these BoM sets?
@tahbb143 said:
I dont get many things graded, so it's often years between experiences sending things in
outside of considering not opening box [or bag lol] it's shipped in to maintain longer term option of getting FDOI designation, are there any other callouts or best practices specific to this issue to remember when sending in for grading, or just do a normal submission process?
for example - would I want to open box [or bag lol] to see if I got a signed cert from the mint director to consider getting that slabbed too?
any reccos welcome and appreciated
Not an answer, sorry, but I've been wondering for a while now
...
Do the medal and coin have to go thru separate PCGS orders for these BoM sets?
great question - also dont know 😅🫠
a callout to our hosts if they want to send a rep in here for guidance on submitting this set + potential signed cert for grading / encasement 🗣
@Goldbully said:
I'm surprised there are so many still left in the Mint store.
ats: 4026
I think that a lot of folks would love one. Unfortunately, the price is understandably just too high for many.
1000% this. things are tough in the world right now. I dont know anyone other than a die hard that's plunking down almost 6k for this. I realize everyone has different capabilties, priorites, etc etc.
The HHL is now gone and they're selling a few here and there. This one will be around for awhile. If gold drops, it may bring in a few more fence-sitters. 3759 to go
I see why I didn't get free shipping on my order while others did. A person becomes a U.S. Mint Loyalty Member when he has three purchases ship in a calendar year and he is signed up to receive e-mail updates. The free shipping lasts for the calendar year. I specifically did not want e-mail updates so I don't qualify.
I'm not sure if I'm getting free shipping or not, but a few emails are worth saving $50 or whatever. I can't see where you actually sign up for the mailings, though :'(
@stawick said:
...
Do the medal and coin have to go thru separate PCGS orders for these BoM sets?
I just packed up my BOM3 to send to PCGS. If you fill out the online form, it WILL split the medal and coin into two separate orders. I think it's based on price, though. Not because it's a medal and a coin. If you declared the value to be $100 for each, then you'd probably have them on one.
What's weird is I tossed my uncirculated 2026 Peace dollar in there, too (medal & dollar are on one order, Walker is on the other) but it wouldn't give me the option to select First Strike. After a lot of fumbling around, I found this description: 2026-(W) $1 Enhanced Peace Dollar w/ Liberty Bell 250 Privy FS and I put a comment in there saying "please mark this first strike." So we'll see how it goes!
Is 15k compared to other US mint releases a big mintage or small? Have their been examples where the productions have been high yet they still fetch insane prices? I've bought proof eagles before but nothing crazy like this for the ultimate collector.
ATS at noon when HHL switched from HHL1 to none: 3843
3833 at 1 minute // 3733 at 11 minutes // 3668 at 22 minutes
3832 at 2 minutes // 3729 at 12 minutes // 3663 at 23 minutes
3822 at 3 minutes // 3719 at 13 minutes // 3661 at 24 minutes
3817 at 4 minutes // 3710 at 14 minutes // 3656 at 25 minutes
3807 at 5 minutes // 3701 at 15 minutes // 3648 at 27 minutes
3797 at 6 minutes // 3692 at 16 minutes // 3648 at 28 minutes
3785 at 7 minutes // 3688 at 17 minutes // 3647 at 29 minutes
3772 at 8 minutes // 3684 at 18 minutes // 3646 at 30 minutes
3759 at 9 minutes // 3675 at 19 minutes
3742 at 10 minutes // 3673 at 20 minutes
Edited to add the last 5 minutes worth where the flow seems to have about stopped.
@Matt04 said:
Is 15k compared to other US mint releases a big mintage or small? Have their been examples where the productions have been high yet they still fetch insane prices? I've bought proof eagles before but nothing crazy like this for the ultimate collector.
if they fetched current for-sale price I think a lot of people would already classify that as an "insane price" lol
afa will these go for 2x 3x etc over price on release? I super duper highly doubt it unless gold spot skyrockets, which ... ¯|(ツ)|¯
@stawick said:
...
Do the medal and coin have to go thru separate PCGS orders for these BoM sets?
I just packed up my BOM3 to send to PCGS. If you fill out the online form, it WILL split the medal and coin into two separate orders. I think it's based on price, though. Not because it's a medal and a coin. If you declared the value to be $100 for each, then you'd probably have them on one.
What's weird is I tossed my uncirculated 2026 Peace dollar in there, too (medal & dollar are on one order, Walker is on the other) but it wouldn't give me the option to select First Strike. After a lot of fumbling around, I found this description: 2026-(W) $1 Enhanced Peace Dollar w/ Liberty Bell 250 Privy FS and I put a comment in there saying "please mark this first strike." So we'll see how it goes!
I'm thinking if you used the PCGS coin number that corresponds to FS (and its sealed in box) it should get the FS designation on the label.
@Matt04 said:
Is 15k compared to other US mint releases a big mintage or small? Have their been examples where the productions have been high yet they still fetch insane prices? I've bought proof eagles before but nothing crazy like this for the ultimate collector.
if they fetched current for-sale price I think a lot of people would already classify that as an "insane price" lol
afa will these go for 2x 3x etc over price on release? I super duper highly doubt it unless gold spot skyrockets, which ... ¯|(ツ)|¯
Well if we are talking long term, I don't believe we are far off. Gold has seemingly crashed the past hour but... At 4600-4800 an oz, with most certainly a premium over gold for the design + once sold out. You also have what I believe one of the most beautiful silver medals that come with it. I see this going 20-40% over retail down the line.
@MrBear said:
I'm not sure if I'm getting free shipping or not, but a few emails are worth saving $50 or whatever. I can't see where you actually sign up for the mailings, though :'(
Log in to your account at the U.S. Mint's web site
In the upper right corner of the web page, hover your mouse over the icon of the person to reveal a menu and click Account Dashboard
Click the Communications Preferences block on the My Account page
In the Email Preferences section, make sure that Product & Promotions Updates is checked. There is an asterisk showing that this must be enabled for the Loyalty program
Click the red Save Email Preferences button near the bottom of the screen
@Matt04 said:
Is 15k compared to other US mint releases a big mintage or small? Have their been examples where the productions have been high yet they still fetch insane prices? I've bought proof eagles before but nothing crazy like this for the ultimate collector.
I don't think 15,000 coins is all that scarce. If I remember correctly, some of the First Spouse coins (0.5 troy ounces each) had mintages on the order of 5,000. That has not made them particularly valuable as I believe most of them sell for something close to melt price.
I should add that I'm thinking of the proof coins. I seem to recall that there were also uncirculated versions of the First Spouse coins and those typically had even smaller sales than the proof coins. Nonetheless, I'm pretty sure that quite a few First Spouse coins sold fewer than 10,000 coins across both proof and uncirculated versions.
I asked Grok to give me some numbers and it says that the lowest sales for any of the First Spouse coins is the 2016 Betty Ford coin at 1,824. The lowest selling proof coin is the 2014 Grace Coolidge coin at 2,315. The 2014 Eleanore Roosevelt coin has the lowest combined sales at 4,263: 1,886 uncirculated and 2,377 proof.
ATS at noon when HHL switched from HHL1 to none: 3843
3833 at 1 minute // 3733 at 11 minutes // 3668 at 22 minutes
3832 at 2 minutes // 3729 at 12 minutes // 3663 at 23 minutes
3822 at 3 minutes // 3719 at 13 minutes // 3661 at 24 minutes
3817 at 4 minutes // 3710 at 14 minutes // 3656 at 25 minutes
3807 at 5 minutes // 3701 at 15 minutes // 3648 at 27 minutes
3797 at 6 minutes // 3692 at 16 minutes // 3648 at 28 minutes
3785 at 7 minutes // 3688 at 17 minutes // 3647 at 29 minutes
3772 at 8 minutes // 3684 at 18 minutes // 3646 at 30 minutes
3759 at 9 minutes // 3675 at 19 minutes
3742 at 10 minutes // 3673 at 20 minutes
Edited to add the last 5 minutes worth where the flow seems to have about stopped.
@MrBear said:
I'm not sure if I'm getting free shipping or not, but a few emails are worth saving $50 or whatever. I can't see where you actually sign up for the mailings, though :'(
Log in to your account at the U.S. Mint's web site
In the upper right corner of the web page, hover your mouse over the icon of the person to reveal a menu and click Account Dashboard
Click the Communications Preferences block on the My Account page
In the Email Preferences section, make sure that Product & Promotions Updates is checked. There is an asterisk showing that this must be enabled for the Loyalty program
Click the red Save Email Preferences button near the bottom of the screen
That should do it.
That was it! Thanks! This is a big Mint year for me. Not having that box checked has probably cost me at least $50. But at least BOM5, proof sets and a silver dollar or two will get free shipping
I should add that I'm thinking of the proof coins. I seem to recall that there were also uncirculated versions of the First Spouse coins and those typically had even smaller sales than the proof coins. Nonetheless, I'm pretty sure that quite a few First Spouse coins sold fewer than 10,000 coins across both proof and uncirculated versions.
I asked Grok to give me some numbers and it says that the lowest sales for any of the First Spouse coins is the 2016 Betty Ford coin at 1,824. The lowest selling proof coin is the 2014 Grace Coolidge coin at 2,315. The 2014 Eleanore Roosevelt coin has the lowest combined sales at 4,263: 1,886 uncirculated and 2,377 proof.
I guess its more about demand/the design than anything else. Me personally, I would never buy one of those first spouse coins, even with super low mintage I just don't have any interest in them. I assume that goes for others too. An iconic design though like the 1804 example do, there are collectors for that early type designs.
@MrBear said:
I'm not sure if I'm getting free shipping or not, but a few emails are worth saving $50 or whatever. I can't see where you actually sign up for the mailings, though :'(
Log in to your account at the U.S. Mint's web site
In the upper right corner of the web page, hover your mouse over the icon of the person to reveal a menu and click Account Dashboard
Click the Communications Preferences block on the My Account page
In the Email Preferences section, make sure that Product & Promotions Updates is checked. There is an asterisk showing that this must be enabled for the Loyalty program
Click the red Save Email Preferences button near the bottom of the screen
That should do it.
That was it! Thanks! This is a big Mint year for me. Not having that box checked has probably cost me at least $50. But at least BOM5, proof sets and a silver dollar or two will get free shipping
You can test whether you get the free shipping or not by putting an item into your shopping bag and going to the checkout page. I believe it should show the discount.
Come to think of it, there is one more coin in the Best of the Mint series and I guess I could enable product and promotions updates a day or so before the Saint Gaudens coin goes on sale and disable it after purchasing.
I'm sorely tempted to cancel my order for the fourth coin and buy it again after enabling product and promotions updates....
@Matt04 said:
Is 15k compared to other US mint releases a big mintage or small? Have their been examples where the productions have been high yet they still fetch insane prices? I've bought proof eagles before but nothing crazy like this for the ultimate collector.
if they fetched current for-sale price I think a lot of people would already classify that as an "insane price" lol
afa will these go for 2x 3x etc over price on release? I super duper highly doubt it unless gold spot skyrockets, which ... ¯|(ツ)|¯
Well if we are talking long term, I don't believe we are far off. Gold has seemingly crashed the past hour but... At 4600-4800 an oz, with most certainly a premium over gold for the design + once sold out. You also have what I believe one of the most beautiful silver medals that come with it. I see this going 20-40% over retail down the line.
Obviously no one knows, but from what I've read gold is expected to continue to increase next year.
I was thinking that I have 6 days to contemplate taking this back and rebuying it some time if gold goes down.
It is awesome looking as is the medal, but I'd sure love to be able to take it back and buy a cheaper down the line. Ofcourse, what will happen is unknowable.
@Matt04 said:
Is 15k compared to other US mint releases a big mintage or small? Have their been examples where the productions have been high yet they still fetch insane prices? I've bought proof eagles before but nothing crazy like this for the ultimate collector.
if they fetched current for-sale price I think a lot of people would already classify that as an "insane price" lol
afa will these go for 2x 3x etc over price on release? I super duper highly doubt it unless gold spot skyrockets, which ... ¯|(ツ)|¯
Well if we are talking long term, I don't believe we are far off. Gold has seemingly crashed the past hour but... At 4600-4800 an oz, with most certainly a premium over gold for the design + once sold out. You also have what I believe one of the most beautiful silver medals that come with it. I see this going 20-40% over retail down the line.
Obviously no one knows, but from what I've read gold is expected to continue to increase next year.
I was thinking that I have 6 days to contemplate taking this back and rebuying it some time if gold goes down.
It is awesome looking as is the medal, but I'd sure love to be able to take it back and buy a cheaper down the line. Ofcourse, what will happen is unknowable.
does the mint lower prices according to precious metals going down in price? How would you buy it cheaper?
@Matt04 said:
Is 15k compared to other US mint releases a big mintage or small? Have their been examples where the productions have been high yet they still fetch insane prices? I've bought proof eagles before but nothing crazy like this for the ultimate collector.
if they fetched current for-sale price I think a lot of people would already classify that as an "insane price" lol
afa will these go for 2x 3x etc over price on release? I super duper highly doubt it unless gold spot skyrockets, which ... ¯|(ツ)|¯
Well if we are talking long term, I don't believe we are far off. Gold has seemingly crashed the past hour but... At 4600-4800 an oz, with most certainly a premium over gold for the design + once sold out. You also have what I believe one of the most beautiful silver medals that come with it. I see this going 20-40% over retail down the line.
Obviously no one knows, but from what I've read gold is expected to continue to increase next year.
I was thinking that I have 6 days to contemplate taking this back and rebuying it some time if gold goes down.
It is awesome looking as is the medal, but I'd sure love to be able to take it back and buy a cheaper down the line. Ofcourse, what will happen is unknowable.
does the mint lower prices according to precious metals going down in price? How would you buy it cheaper?
lower - yes, except silver. there is a pricing grid on the mint website
I should add that I'm thinking of the proof coins. I seem to recall that there were also uncirculated versions of the First Spouse coins and those typically had even smaller sales than the proof coins. Nonetheless, I'm pretty sure that quite a few First Spouse coins sold fewer than 10,000 coins across both proof and uncirculated versions.
I asked Grok to give me some numbers and it says that the lowest sales for any of the First Spouse coins is the 2016 Betty Ford coin at 1,824. The lowest selling proof coin is the 2014 Grace Coolidge coin at 2,315. The 2014 Eleanore Roosevelt coin has the lowest combined sales at 4,263: 1,886 uncirculated and 2,377 proof.
I guess its more about demand/the design than anything else. Me personally, I would never buy one of those first spouse coins, even with super low mintage I just don't have any interest in them. I assume that goes for others too. An iconic design though like the 1804 example do, there are collectors for that early type designs.
Of course it is demand relative to supply that sets the price. The First Spouse coins were derided here as "First Hag" coins. Some of them were nice as Lady Liberty was on the obverse for presidents who didn't have a wife during their terms but the remainder were of relatively old women who perhaps were never particularly attractive even in their primes. To make matters worse, their faces were drawn in three-quarters perspective instead of profile which makes it look even worse.
Something humorous on the subject of price, supply, and demand. What would you pay for a kidney stone? Probably nothing, right? In 2006, William Shatner had a kidney stone removed that sold for $25,000. LOL
@Matt04 said:
Is 15k compared to other US mint releases a big mintage or small? Have their been examples where the productions have been high yet they still fetch insane prices? I've bought proof eagles before but nothing crazy like this for the ultimate collector.
if they fetched current for-sale price I think a lot of people would already classify that as an "insane price" lol
afa will these go for 2x 3x etc over price on release? I super duper highly doubt it unless gold spot skyrockets, which ... ¯|(ツ)|¯
Well if we are talking long term, I don't believe we are far off. Gold has seemingly crashed the past hour but... At 4600-4800 an oz, with most certainly a premium over gold for the design + once sold out. You also have what I believe one of the most beautiful silver medals that come with it. I see this going 20-40% over retail down the line.
Obviously no one knows, but from what I've read gold is expected to continue to increase next year.
I was thinking that I have 6 days to contemplate taking this back and rebuying it some time if gold goes down.
It is awesome looking as is the medal, but I'd sure love to be able to take it back and buy a cheaper down the line. Ofcourse, what will happen is unknowable.
does the mint lower prices according to precious metals going down in price? How would you buy it cheaper?
I mean on the secondary market.
They do reprice up or down depending on the price of gold, but I was referring to down the line on the secondary market.
Nicely executed coin and medal set - HOWEVER, these appear so "cold" and clinical. Technically good but IMHO should have been struck on a screw press to somewhat imitate the original draped bust pieces. I thought about it, but at that price it just does not pull me that hard. Perhaps Carr or Gallery Mint might have pulled it off a bit better??
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
@Matt04 said:
Is 15k compared to other US mint releases a big mintage or small? Have their been examples where the productions have been high yet they still fetch insane prices? I've bought proof eagles before but nothing crazy like this for the ultimate collector.
if they fetched current for-sale price I think a lot of people would already classify that as an "insane price" lol
afa will these go for 2x 3x etc over price on release? I super duper highly doubt it unless gold spot skyrockets, which ... ¯|(ツ)|¯
Well if we are talking long term, I don't believe we are far off. Gold has seemingly crashed the past hour but... At 4600-4800 an oz, with most certainly a premium over gold for the design + once sold out. You also have what I believe one of the most beautiful silver medals that come with it. I see this going 20-40% over retail down the line.
Obviously no one knows, but from what I've read gold is expected to continue to increase next year.
I was thinking that I have 6 days to contemplate taking this back and rebuying it some time if gold goes down.
It is awesome looking as is the medal, but I'd sure love to be able to take it back and buy a cheaper down the line. Ofcourse, what will happen is unknowable.
Raufus, yes Gold is on a bull run now and apparently for the foreseeable next 5 years. The Gold bear market is over. According to a somewhat consensus of metal market technicians, Gold may consolidate and correct in the near term by around 8% to around the $4350/oz level. Warsh seems to have indicated concern about inflation, so the prospect of interest rate increase(s) can spook the Gold market down but it remains in a Bull market, nonetheless. Eventually Gold will continue to hit higher marks "in time". There are other variables that affect Gold cash spot.
No financial advice here and not my personal analysis. Just gleamed 'info', for amusement purposes.
When the BOM excitement cools off and "IF" Gold is down some, you "might " be able to find a secondary market purchase as you hypothesized. A graded sample would be best to avoid raw duds in my opinion.
It is a hard call for short term arbitrage.
Sometimes a "bird in hand is worth two in a bush".
The BOM is a 'collector series' in my opinion with precious metal content.. Not like 'serious' numismatic coins in terms of "investment value" or "future premium value" etc...
I am sure that you have already run these scenarios, so I am just chatting.
@Matt04 said:
Is 15k compared to other US mint releases a big mintage or small? Have their been examples where the productions have been high yet they still fetch insane prices? I've bought proof eagles before but nothing crazy like this for the ultimate collector.
This reply is really for @Matt04 and anyone else who might have questions about US Mint releases and who might not typically buy something from the US Mint.
In my opinion, it is a bit dicey to buy most anything from the US Mint with the expectation of immediate and economic downturn-proof resale value. Years ago one could buy things from the US Mint and flip them repeatedly and make great money by doing so, heck even I did it with tremendous success at one point. However, in the last decade-plus it has been more difficult to obtain winners when they are spotted as more folks have zeroed in on those winners earlier and have devised plans to obtain the pieces.
For a random commem-type of coin I would suggest that 15k is indeed a large mintage, but not all issues behave the same way and sometimes you just want a coin for its design. I purchased a bunch of the 2009 UHR coins, sold all but two, made lots of money on the ones I sold and effectively have two that were obtained not just for free, but with extra cash. I like the issue so I kept two of them. Similarly, I purchased two of the 2024 FH and just sat on them and they are now worth well over their issue price because of where gold has gone. I enjoy them so they are fine to have. The newly released 1804 DB is in a similar boat in that I felt badly about paying "that much" for it, but that is the reality of where precious metals are and if I wanted to add one or two pieces then that is what it took to add them.
So, if you like it and can afford it then if you want to buy it go ahead, but keep in mind most recent data will suggest that the future value will be tied to the bullion value of the piece more than any numismatic value. As a buyer of gold for pieces that I like I am okay with that outlook, but as you can see in this thread there are others who either cannot justify the acquisition or who are incredibly skittish about future value and go back on forth on their decisions.
I agree with @Tom_B completely. I have done fairly well with my selective mint purchases over time. I just paid 10x what I paid for 1986 AGE proof from the mint. It is a design that I liked and wanted for my collection.
I am a little surprised that so many folks were excited about this release have been spooked by a 3% move in gold. The price is cheaper than what I expected since gold was well over 5K since these were announced.
@psuman08 said:
I agree with @Tom_B completely. I have done fairly well with my selective mint purchases over time. I just paid 10x what I paid for 1986 AGE proof from the mint. It is a design that I liked and wanted for my collection.
I am a little surprised that so many folks were excited about this release have been spooked by a 3% move in gold. The price is cheaper than what I expected since gold was well over 5K since these were announced.
I honestly think people are more spooked about ABPP not taking their full allotment, and then them not selling out in 5 minutes, than by a few hundred dollar move in the price of gold.
Human nature, especially on this forum -- people only want what they can't have. These very same people would be screaming to the high heavens, at the exact same price, if this turned out to be a flip and they couldn't get one.
The lesson isn't that they made too many, or that they priced them too high. The only lesson is that people are never happy.
Personally, I am thrilled that everyone who wanted one was able to get one, and that the bots stayed away. I just hope that the Mint figures out how to manage mintage and pricing so that this becomes the rule rather than the exception.
Even if that means flippers need to go back to focusing on their day jobs, and that collectors have to go back to actually paying for what they want for their collections rather than financing it with the proceeds from flips.
@psuman08 said:
I agree with @Tom_B completely. I have done fairly well with my selective mint purchases over time. I just paid 10x what I paid for 1986 AGE proof from the mint. It is a design that I liked and wanted for my collection.
I am a little surprised that so many folks were excited about this release have been spooked by a 3% move in gold. The price is cheaper than what I expected since gold was well over 5K since these were announced.
I honestly think people are more spooked about ABPP not taking their full allotment, and then them not selling out in 5 minutes, than by a few hundred dollar move in the price of gold.
Human nature, especially on this forum -- people only want what they can't have. These very same people would be screaming to the high heavens, at the exact same price, if this turned out to be a flip and they couldn't get one.
The lesson isn't that they made too many, or that they priced them too high. The only lesson is that people are never happy.
Personally, I am thrilled that everyone who wanted one was able to get one, and that the bots stayed away. I just hope that the Mint figures out how to manage mintage and pricing so that this becomes the rule rather than the exception.
Even if that means flippers need to go back to focusing on their day jobs, and that collectors have to go back to actually paying for what they want for their collections rather than financing it with the proceeds from flips.
Honestly, I don't know that anyone is "spooked". 10,000 or so may be the actual demand for such issues. When there is no open bid and no flip potential, you lose the flippers and speculators immediately
I would not anticipate that this coin will "appreciate". Coins that have greater supply than demand almost never do. But it's very pretty if you want one.
I'm still more interested in the silver medals than the gold and will probably acquire a set in 2 years or so.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@psuman08 said:
I agree with @Tom_B completely. I have done fairly well with my selective mint purchases over time. I just paid 10x what I paid for 1986 AGE proof from the mint. It is a design that I liked and wanted for my collection.
I am a little surprised that so many folks were excited about this release have been spooked by a 3% move in gold. The price is cheaper than what I expected since gold was well over 5K since these were announced.
I honestly think people are more spooked about ABPP not taking their full allotment, and then them not selling out in 5 minutes, than by a few hundred dollar move in the price of gold.
Human nature, especially on this forum -- people only want what they can't have. These very same people would be screaming to the high heavens, at the exact same price, if this turned out to be a flip and they couldn't get one.
The lesson isn't that they made too many, or that they priced them too high. The only lesson is that people are never happy.
Personally, I am thrilled that everyone who wanted one was able to get one, and that the bots stayed away. I just hope that the Mint figures out how to manage mintage and pricing so that this becomes the rule rather than the exception.
Even if that means flippers need to go back to focusing on their day jobs, and that collectors have to go back to actually paying for what they want for their collections rather than financing it with the proceeds from flips.
Honestly, I don't know that anyone is "spooked". 10,000 or so may be the actual demand for such issues. When there is no open bid and no flip potential, you lose the flippers and speculators immediately
I would not anticipate that this coin will "appreciate". Coins that have greater supply than demand almost never do. But it's very pretty if you want one.
I'm still more interested in the silver medals than the gold and will priceline acquire a set in 2 years or so.
Agreed, and I said pretty much the same thing a few weeks ago. 15K might actually turn out for the right number. Let's give it a little time.
But I did point out that 10K was a home run the last time, but at around $1,000 cheaper. These are very nice, and people won't get hurt if gold continues on its trajectory.
I also pointed out that those now sell for around $6500 raw, so $5500+ for these with a 50% higher mintage, plus a silver medal, is reasonable, but hardly a similar home run. And that's exactly how this is now playing out.
But no one should be buying these to flip, or as bullion investments. We should all just be buying things we like.
The Mint doesn't owe us risk free flips. I've been pretty consistent with everything.
The Mint should be satisfying collector demand at whatever price it sets. Not over producing to create dogs, and not under producing to give you a risk free side hustle.
And, as I have said repeatedly now, the annual coin sets should be priced low and made in large quantities if demand dictates. I have no opinion as to what pricing and mintage for things like this should be, other than, again, the sales process should not be a lottery in which you need third party technology in order to have a chance to participate.
As far as I am concerned, the BOM process was near perfect. Beautiful sets. Easy to get. And not wildly overpriced as compared to everything else they sell nowadays.
And, by the way, "spooked" just refers to the fact that people here were expecting a battle with the bots to get one when the mintage was first announced at half of the first 3 entries in the series, only to later back away. Supposedly over pricing, not mintage.
I don't think it's either. I think it's the ABPP not taking their full allotment, and buyers club members lacking interest in another risk free option while waiting for their $20K refunds from their last risk free option, with credit card bills past due and credit card points evaporating.
Once it was clear that they'd be easy to get, many lost interest. The same people would be whining that they were shut out if they were difficult to get.
Comments
Raufus, thank you for the pictures and relating today's US Mint Store adventure!
Your pictures were very inspiring !
I really like that silver medal ! The female device is nice !
You inspired me to once again mentally toil over a possible purchase.
Fortunately, the soup pot burned while I was doing numbers and reckoning over my sole person 'collector' at significant age etc... Smoke alarm noise , alarm co. call, crazy......
Anyway, I decided to pull out my Intaglio Mint 2 oz silver 1804 modern re-creation.
I basically decided that this was nice enough.
No contest next to the Gold and Silver set, but my silver sample is also ultra-high relief and very finely minted.
I include pictures not to detract from the Gold 1804 re-creation or historical significance being the first time the US Mint has re-created this design, but to add to this thread's interest. (glare and small detractions are the plastic capsule.)
BTW, congratulations to all that bought this beautiful set !!
I see why I didn't get free shipping on my order while others did. A person becomes a U.S. Mint Loyalty Member when he has three purchases ship in a calendar year and he is signed up to receive e-mail updates. The free shipping lasts for the calendar year. I specifically did not want e-mail updates so I don't qualify.
https://www.usmint.gov/help-center/loyalty-program.html
3919 left. How long will it take to eventually sell out?
@Heubschgold,
I'm glad that you enjoyed the photos and the Mint store narrative.
Great post.
I think that you did well. The 2 oz looks great. You also saved yourself 6K.
I wish that gold were way lower. At these levels collecting is really tough.
"isBackOrder": true,
"ats": 3925,
"perpetual": false
6 returns or order cancellations?
Cancellations after placing an order less than 24 hours ago most likely. They aren't really moving this morning. Will see what the HHL being lifted at noon does
Not an answer, sorry, but I've been wondering for a while now
...
Do the medal and coin have to go thru separate PCGS orders for these BoM sets?
great question - also dont know 😅🫠
a callout to our hosts if they want to send a rep in here for guidance on submitting this set + potential signed cert for grading / encasement 🗣
"isBackOrder": true,
"ats": 3865,
"perpetual": false
crawling towards a sellout? 🐌 😄
1000% this. things are tough in the world right now. I dont know anyone other than a die hard that's plunking down almost 6k for this. I realize everyone has different capabilties, priorites, etc etc.
We are soooooo hardcore, devoted, resilient, hopeful, and decadent.
No excuses.
The HHL is now gone and they're selling a few here and there. This one will be around for awhile. If gold drops, it may bring in a few more fence-sitters. 3759 to go
I'm not sure if I'm getting free shipping or not, but a few emails are worth saving $50 or whatever. I can't see where you actually sign up for the mailings, though :'(
I just packed up my BOM3 to send to PCGS. If you fill out the online form, it WILL split the medal and coin into two separate orders. I think it's based on price, though. Not because it's a medal and a coin. If you declared the value to be $100 for each, then you'd probably have them on one.
What's weird is I tossed my uncirculated 2026 Peace dollar in there, too (medal & dollar are on one order, Walker is on the other) but it wouldn't give me the option to select First Strike. After a lot of fumbling around, I found this description: 2026-(W) $1 Enhanced Peace Dollar w/ Liberty Bell 250 Privy FS and I put a comment in there saying "please mark this first strike." So we'll see how it goes!
Is 15k compared to other US mint releases a big mintage or small? Have their been examples where the productions have been high yet they still fetch insane prices? I've bought proof eagles before but nothing crazy like this for the ultimate collector.
Selling about 10 per minute.
ATS at noon when HHL switched from HHL1 to none: 3843
3833 at 1 minute // 3733 at 11 minutes // 3668 at 22 minutes
3832 at 2 minutes // 3729 at 12 minutes // 3663 at 23 minutes
3822 at 3 minutes // 3719 at 13 minutes // 3661 at 24 minutes
3817 at 4 minutes // 3710 at 14 minutes // 3656 at 25 minutes
3807 at 5 minutes // 3701 at 15 minutes // 3648 at 27 minutes
3797 at 6 minutes // 3692 at 16 minutes // 3648 at 28 minutes
3785 at 7 minutes // 3688 at 17 minutes // 3647 at 29 minutes
3772 at 8 minutes // 3684 at 18 minutes // 3646 at 30 minutes
3759 at 9 minutes // 3675 at 19 minutes
3742 at 10 minutes // 3673 at 20 minutes
Edited to add the last 5 minutes worth where the flow seems to have about stopped.
if they fetched current for-sale price I think a lot of people would already classify that as an "insane price" lol
afa will these go for 2x 3x etc over price on release? I super duper highly doubt it unless gold spot skyrockets, which ... ¯|(ツ)|¯
I'm thinking if you used the PCGS coin number that corresponds to FS (and its sealed in box) it should get the FS designation on the label.
"isBackOrder": true,
"ats": 3630,
"perpetual": false
$20M in sales left to go 🐌
Well if we are talking long term, I don't believe we are far off. Gold has seemingly crashed the past hour but... At 4600-4800 an oz, with most certainly a premium over gold for the design + once sold out. You also have what I believe one of the most beautiful silver medals that come with it. I see this going 20-40% over retail down the line.
That should do it.
I don't think 15,000 coins is all that scarce. If I remember correctly, some of the First Spouse coins (0.5 troy ounces each) had mintages on the order of 5,000. That has not made them particularly valuable as I believe most of them sell for something close to melt price.
I should add that I'm thinking of the proof coins. I seem to recall that there were also uncirculated versions of the First Spouse coins and those typically had even smaller sales than the proof coins. Nonetheless, I'm pretty sure that quite a few First Spouse coins sold fewer than 10,000 coins across both proof and uncirculated versions.
I asked Grok to give me some numbers and it says that the lowest sales for any of the First Spouse coins is the 2016 Betty Ford coin at 1,824. The lowest selling proof coin is the 2014 Grace Coolidge coin at 2,315. The 2014 Eleanore Roosevelt coin has the lowest combined sales at 4,263: 1,886 uncirculated and 2,377 proof.
Cool!
That was it! Thanks! This is a big Mint year for me. Not having that box checked has probably cost me at least $50. But at least BOM5, proof sets and a silver dollar or two will get free shipping
I guess its more about demand/the design than anything else. Me personally, I would never buy one of those first spouse coins, even with super low mintage I just don't have any interest in them. I assume that goes for others too. An iconic design though like the 1804 example do, there are collectors for that early type designs.
You can test whether you get the free shipping or not by putting an item into your shopping bag and going to the checkout page. I believe it should show the discount.
Come to think of it, there is one more coin in the Best of the Mint series and I guess I could enable product and promotions updates a day or so before the Saint Gaudens coin goes on sale and disable it after purchasing.
I'm sorely tempted to cancel my order for the fourth coin and buy it again after enabling product and promotions updates....
Obviously no one knows, but from what I've read gold is expected to continue to increase next year.
I was thinking that I have 6 days to contemplate taking this back and rebuying it some time if gold goes down.
It is awesome looking as is the medal, but I'd sure love to be able to take it back and buy a cheaper down the line. Ofcourse, what will happen is unknowable.
does the mint lower prices according to precious metals going down in price? How would you buy it cheaper?
I've got 9 different offers to buy...> @Matt04 said:
lower - yes, except silver. there is a pricing grid on the mint website
Yes. If gold dropped to $4000 this afternoon, and stayed there for six months, the price of the BOM4 would drop, and BOM5 would be the same price
Of course it is demand relative to supply that sets the price. The First Spouse coins were derided here as "First Hag" coins.
Some of them were nice as Lady Liberty was on the obverse for presidents who didn't have a wife during their terms but the remainder were of relatively old women who perhaps were never particularly attractive even in their primes. To make matters worse, their faces were drawn in three-quarters perspective instead of profile which makes it look even worse.
Something humorous on the subject of price, supply, and demand. What would you pay for a kidney stone? Probably nothing, right? In 2006, William Shatner had a kidney stone removed that sold for $25,000. LOL
I mean on the secondary market.
They do reprice up or down depending on the price of gold, but I was referring to down the line on the secondary market.
The Draped Bust is a really amazing design! This really brings it out in a way most of the older Draped Bust coins cannot!
shipped and arriving on monday
📪 👀 💦
Same here. Can't wait to see it.
where do you check to see when its shipped?
I got an email
you can also go into your orders on the mint website and check order status if you dont trust your email client for regular updates
Nicely executed coin and medal set - HOWEVER, these appear so "cold" and clinical. Technically good but IMHO should have been struck on a screw press to somewhat imitate the original draped bust pieces. I thought about it, but at that price it just does not pull me that hard. Perhaps Carr or Gallery Mint might have pulled it off a bit better??
Well, just Love coins, period.
Raufus, yes Gold is on a bull run now and apparently for the foreseeable next 5 years. The Gold bear market is over. According to a somewhat consensus of metal market technicians, Gold may consolidate and correct in the near term by around 8% to around the $4350/oz level. Warsh seems to have indicated concern about inflation, so the prospect of interest rate increase(s) can spook the Gold market down but it remains in a Bull market, nonetheless. Eventually Gold will continue to hit higher marks "in time". There are other variables that affect Gold cash spot.
No financial advice here and not my personal analysis. Just gleamed 'info', for amusement purposes.
When the BOM excitement cools off and "IF" Gold is down some, you "might " be able to find a secondary market purchase as you hypothesized. A graded sample would be best to avoid raw duds in my opinion.
It is a hard call for short term arbitrage.
Sometimes a "bird in hand is worth two in a bush".
The BOM is a 'collector series' in my opinion with precious metal content.. Not like 'serious' numismatic coins in terms of "investment value" or "future premium value" etc...
I am sure that you have already run these scenarios, so I am just chatting.
This reply is really for @Matt04 and anyone else who might have questions about US Mint releases and who might not typically buy something from the US Mint.
In my opinion, it is a bit dicey to buy most anything from the US Mint with the expectation of immediate and economic downturn-proof resale value. Years ago one could buy things from the US Mint and flip them repeatedly and make great money by doing so, heck even I did it with tremendous success at one point. However, in the last decade-plus it has been more difficult to obtain winners when they are spotted as more folks have zeroed in on those winners earlier and have devised plans to obtain the pieces.
For a random commem-type of coin I would suggest that 15k is indeed a large mintage, but not all issues behave the same way and sometimes you just want a coin for its design. I purchased a bunch of the 2009 UHR coins, sold all but two, made lots of money on the ones I sold and effectively have two that were obtained not just for free, but with extra cash. I like the issue so I kept two of them. Similarly, I purchased two of the 2024 FH and just sat on them and they are now worth well over their issue price because of where gold has gone. I enjoy them so they are fine to have. The newly released 1804 DB is in a similar boat in that I felt badly about paying "that much" for it, but that is the reality of where precious metals are and if I wanted to add one or two pieces then that is what it took to add them.
So, if you like it and can afford it then if you want to buy it go ahead, but keep in mind most recent data will suggest that the future value will be tied to the bullion value of the piece more than any numismatic value. As a buyer of gold for pieces that I like I am okay with that outlook, but as you can see in this thread there are others who either cannot justify the acquisition or who are incredibly skittish about future value and go back on forth on their decisions.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
X3.
Boom...we win.
I agree with @Tom_B completely. I have done fairly well with my selective mint purchases over time. I just paid 10x what I paid for 1986 AGE proof from the mint. It is a design that I liked and wanted for my collection.
I am a little surprised that so many folks were excited about this release have been spooked by a 3% move in gold. The price is cheaper than what I expected since gold was well over 5K since these were announced.
I honestly think people are more spooked about ABPP not taking their full allotment, and then them not selling out in 5 minutes, than by a few hundred dollar move in the price of gold.
Human nature, especially on this forum -- people only want what they can't have. These very same people would be screaming to the high heavens, at the exact same price, if this turned out to be a flip and they couldn't get one.
The lesson isn't that they made too many, or that they priced them too high. The only lesson is that people are never happy.
Personally, I am thrilled that everyone who wanted one was able to get one, and that the bots stayed away. I just hope that the Mint figures out how to manage mintage and pricing so that this becomes the rule rather than the exception.
Even if that means flippers need to go back to focusing on their day jobs, and that collectors have to go back to actually paying for what they want for their collections rather than financing it with the proceeds from flips.
Mint issues can't all be Flowing Hair High Relief Gold Coins.
Original mintage if I recall was 17,000......then without any warning, the Mint keeps the Mintage at 10,000 pieces.
Also, the privy version graded by PCGS was announced soon after, and the tiny mintage of 230 at auction was a nice kicker.
Honestly, I don't know that anyone is "spooked". 10,000 or so may be the actual demand for such issues. When there is no open bid and no flip potential, you lose the flippers and speculators immediately
I would not anticipate that this coin will "appreciate". Coins that have greater supply than demand almost never do. But it's very pretty if you want one.
I'm still more interested in the silver medals than the gold and will probably acquire a set in 2 years or so.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Agreed, and I said pretty much the same thing a few weeks ago. 15K might actually turn out for the right number. Let's give it a little time.
But I did point out that 10K was a home run the last time, but at around $1,000 cheaper. These are very nice, and people won't get hurt if gold continues on its trajectory.
I also pointed out that those now sell for around $6500 raw, so $5500+ for these with a 50% higher mintage, plus a silver medal, is reasonable, but hardly a similar home run. And that's exactly how this is now playing out.
But no one should be buying these to flip, or as bullion investments. We should all just be buying things we like.
The Mint doesn't owe us risk free flips. I've been pretty consistent with everything.
The Mint should be satisfying collector demand at whatever price it sets. Not over producing to create dogs, and not under producing to give you a risk free side hustle.
And, as I have said repeatedly now, the annual coin sets should be priced low and made in large quantities if demand dictates. I have no opinion as to what pricing and mintage for things like this should be, other than, again, the sales process should not be a lottery in which you need third party technology in order to have a chance to participate.
As far as I am concerned, the BOM process was near perfect. Beautiful sets. Easy to get. And not wildly overpriced as compared to everything else they sell nowadays.
And, by the way, "spooked" just refers to the fact that people here were expecting a battle with the bots to get one when the mintage was first announced at half of the first 3 entries in the series, only to later back away. Supposedly over pricing, not mintage.
I don't think it's either. I think it's the ABPP not taking their full allotment, and buyers club members lacking interest in another risk free option while waiting for their $20K refunds from their last risk free option, with credit card bills past due and credit card points evaporating.
Once it was clear that they'd be easy to get, many lost interest. The same people would be whining that they were shut out if they were difficult to get.
ats: 3,425
At this rate, it could be weeks before all are sold, hopefully.
While many on here will consider that a failure, I think that's how it's supposed to be.
It can be both. Lol. But I agree. I don't think everything needs to sell out. I also don't think coins need to go up in value.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Woke up this morning to find the 1804 is now sold out???