"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
@2windy2fish said:
Fascinating really…Because unless the US government decides to sell them at some point (highly unlikely) they are completely worthless…
Likely 400 million dollars worth of numismatics…
If they were sold, they wouldnt bring anywhere near that. You can't take a sale price for a 1 of 1 only legal one of its kind coin and assume 11 more becoming legal would sell at the same price. They would still be highly prized, but you'd likely be looking at closer to 30 - 40 million total for all 11, not each.
True. They also aren't completely worthless now. They are worth melt!
They are held by the US Mint not under any statutory authority, but simply as government property under common law property rules, as they were never issued and thus considered stolen property that over time was recovered.
That means that the President could direct the Secretary of the Treasury under an executive order to auction the 11 coins off at any time without any further legal authority, the money to be simply added to the general fund of the Treasury.
I see no legal reason why this is not being considered, it is not the same as property held at the Smithsonian for all Americans in a museum setting, which is controlled under a variety of federal laws and cannot be sold without Congressional authority or returned to the owners in the case of loaned property.
Sure. But that's different than monetizing them.
Personally, they should melt them or display them at the Smithsonian. There's something unseemly about seizing them and then parading then around like tribute.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@2windy2fish said:
Fascinating really…Because unless the US government decides to sell them at some point (highly unlikely) they are completely worthless…
Likely 400 million dollars worth of numismatics…
If they were sold, they wouldnt bring anywhere near that. You can't take a sale price for a 1 of 1 only legal one of its kind coin and assume 11 more becoming legal would sell at the same price. They would still be highly prized, but you'd likely be looking at closer to 30 - 40 million total for all 11, not each.
True. They also aren't completely worthless now. They are worth melt!
They are held by the US Mint not under any statutory authority, but simply as government property under common law property rules, as they were never issued and thus considered stolen property that over time was recovered.
That means that the President could direct the Secretary of the Treasury under an executive order to auction the 11 coins off at any time without any further legal authority, the money to be simply added to the general fund of the Treasury.
I see no legal reason why this is not being considered, it is not the same as property held at the Smithsonian for all Americans in a museum setting, which is controlled under a variety of federal laws and cannot be sold without Congressional authority or returned to the owners in the case of loaned property.
As far as a legal reason precluding auctioning off of the coins, what about the agreement that the government made prior to the sale of the Fenton coin, that it would be the only one which could be legally owned?
Just counterstamp them as "copy". 🤣
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@2windy2fish said:
Fascinating really…Because unless the US government decides to sell them at some point (highly unlikely) they are completely worthless…
Likely 400 million dollars worth of numismatics…
If they were sold, they wouldnt bring anywhere near that. You can't take a sale price for a 1 of 1 only legal one of its kind coin and assume 11 more becoming legal would sell at the same price. They would still be highly prized, but you'd likely be looking at closer to 30 - 40 million total for all 11, not each.
True. They also aren't completely worthless now. They are worth melt!
They are held by the US Mint not under any statutory authority, but simply as government property under common law property rules, as they were never issued and thus considered stolen property that over time was recovered.
That means that the President could direct the Secretary of the Treasury under an executive order to auction the 11 coins off at any time without any further legal authority, the money to be simply added to the general fund of the Treasury.
I see no legal reason why this is not being considered, it is not the same as property held at the Smithsonian for all Americans in a museum setting, which is controlled under a variety of federal laws and cannot be sold without Congressional authority or returned to the owners in the case of loaned property.
As far as a legal reason precluding auctioning off of the coins, what about the agreement that the government made prior to the sale of the Fenton coin, that it would be the only one which could be legally owned?
All this for a bunch of coins that got out early ? Ridiculous overkill. Like they were disposing of radioactive Plutonium, for crissakes.
"Stolen from the Mint" -- what a bunch of crap. As if Israel Switt or a 7-year old Joan Langbord sneaked into the Mint at night like Tom Cruise in the original MISSION IMPOSSIBLE film and breached their security measures.
And then....by good fortune...someone snuck into the same Mint and REPLACED those stolen coins with an equivalent number of ounces of gold coins. Will miracles never cease ?
Meanwhile, nothing ever done about $5,000 (250 1928 DEs) stolen in an official Mint bag. The size of a grocery bag, if not larger, and it somehow got out of Vault F in the subtarreanean levels. Maybe "Israel Switt" isn't the only 2 words that explain where some DEs went -- maybe the term "slush fund" should also be introduced ?
Friday @ ANA & they were on display (finally), but….
3 security guards & no one could get to within 20 feet of the coins while the talk was going on. Hopefully, the public would be able to get up close afterwards. Too bad for me as I wanted to see them but had to leave the show to catch my flight.
JMO - this should have been better planned out & the coins should have been displayed before day #4 of WFOM!
Here’s a pic from the bleachers:
As they won’t rotate around like past displays (think 1913 5C), it’s hard to imagine the public being able to view both sides of the coins, given the necessity of passing both sides, along with the downward tilt of the reverses.
It would be interesting to see the 11 coins on display.
Even more interesting would be having the opportunity to talk to the persons in uniform that are standing guard over the display. I would like hear from them how they view the 11 coins on display, how they view the persons connected to putting the 11 coins on display, how they view the members of the public who wait in line to get a chance to approach and view the 11 coins and how they view their employment as security personnel assigned to guard the 11 coins.
I was thinking comically about the abundant security. The U.S. government who stole the coins from the Langbord family, were extra secure they wouldn't be stolen back.
Here is a catwalk shot of the coins on display and presentation.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
I managed to briefly get there and I saw the 1921 Saint. From a distance, it really had an attractive look. No further comment as I do not consider my look to be within the scope of an in hand review. I also saw the 1913 Liberty Nickel… I did not see the 1933 Saints.
In all fairness, I thought the David Lawrence convention center was a good venue. My main criticism was that there were no places to really sit for a spell…and there was room for that within the hall. And everyone can chime about age… but first please read the room.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
@SanctionII said:
It would be interesting to see the 11 coins on display.
Even more interesting would be having the opportunity to talk to the persons in uniform that are standing guard over the display. I would like hear from them how they view the 11 coins on display, how they view the persons connected to putting the 11 coins on display, how they view the members of the public who wait in line to get a chance to approach and view the 11 coins and how they view their employment as security personnel assigned to guard the 11 coins.
I imagine they are from the us mint's very own police force and would either no comment or defer
@2windy2fish said:
Fascinating really…Because unless the US government decides to sell them at some point (highly unlikely) they are completely worthless…
Likely 400 million dollars worth of numismatics…
If they were sold, they wouldnt bring anywhere near that. You can't take a sale price for a 1 of 1 only legal one of its kind coin and assume 11 more becoming legal would sell at the same price. They would still be highly prized, but you'd likely be looking at closer to 30 - 40 million total for all 11, not each.
If 250 privy marked sets of Lincoln cents can bring 18 million or so dollars in a fast paced auction, you can bet 10 or so monetized 1933 DE’s would bring more
I was thinking comically about the abundant security. The U.S. government who stole the coins from the Langbord family, were extra secure they wouldn't be stolen back.
Here is a catwalk shot of the coins on display and presentation.
As much as I disagreed with and disliked the outcome of the court decision in favor of the government, it didn’t steal the coins from the Langbord family.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
May I respectfully suggest that a separate thread be started with the 1921 picture?
Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
@2windy2fish said:
Fascinating really…Because unless the US government decides to sell them at some point (highly unlikely) they are completely worthless…
Likely 400 million dollars worth of numismatics…
If they were sold, they wouldnt bring anywhere near that. You can't take a sale price for a 1 of 1 only legal one of its kind coin and assume 11 more becoming legal would sell at the same price. They would still be highly prized, but you'd likely be looking at closer to 30 - 40 million total for all 11, not each.
If 250 privy marked sets of Lincoln cents can bring 18 million or so dollars in a fast paced auction, you can bet 10 or so monetized 1933 DE’s would bring more
Last time I checked, 30-40 million was larger than 18 million. So I guess you're agreeing with me? Even if it was 60 million, that's nowhere near the previously mentioned 400 million.
There are significantly more people who can shell out 50-75k than a couple million, it's not the same market.
I saw the coins as well as you could from the distance the public was kept at. When I walked around to see the reverses (near impossible because of distance and they were displayed on an angle) I asked the police officer guarding the back of the case if he ever thought he'd be one day guarding coins. He got a pretty good laugh in and said no never would have guessed it.
@Raufus said:
Did\nAnyone attend the talk by the Mont Chief Counsel? It sounded like it would have been fascinating.
What would have been better is a debate with someone from the other side -- Roger Burdette, someone from these forums -- to debate someone from the Mint or David Tripp or whoever on who is entitled to the coins.
@MsMorrisine said:
I imagine they are from the us mint's very own police force and would either no comment or defer
I doubt they are up to speed with any of the details on the history of these 1933 Double Eagles. They probably know there was a custody dispute and a court trial but that's about it.
I was surprised that none of the eleven DEs were in graded NGC holders. I just looked at the old thread and it was stated they were graded but placed in re-closable holders.
Comments
@WinLoseWin Very good, thank you
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
Ad nauseam. Justice isn’t blind. It just isn’t.
Sure. But that's different than monetizing them.
Personally, they should melt them or display them at the Smithsonian. There's something unseemly about seizing them and then parading then around like tribute.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Just counterstamp them as "copy". 🤣
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Or “reconstituted”
All this for a bunch of coins that got out early ? Ridiculous overkill. Like they were disposing of radioactive Plutonium, for crissakes.
"Stolen from the Mint" -- what a bunch of crap. As if Israel Switt or a 7-year old Joan Langbord sneaked into the Mint at night like Tom Cruise in the original MISSION IMPOSSIBLE film and breached their security measures.
And then....by good fortune...someone snuck into the same Mint and REPLACED those stolen coins with an equivalent number of ounces of gold coins. Will miracles never cease ?
Meanwhile, nothing ever done about $5,000 (250 1928 DEs) stolen in an official Mint bag. The size of a grocery bag, if not larger, and it somehow got out of Vault F in the subtarreanean levels. Maybe "Israel Switt" isn't the only 2 words that explain where some DEs went -- maybe the term "slush fund" should also be introduced ?
Anybody get any images of these yet ?
I was there a few days this week and they were covered. I guess the reveal is only Friday. Left today…bummer.
I saw them on display at I think it was the ANA world fair of money in 2006 in Denver.
Friday @ ANA & they were on display (finally), but….
3 security guards & no one could get to within 20 feet of the coins while the talk was going on. Hopefully, the public would be able to get up close afterwards. Too bad for me as I wanted to see them but had to leave the show to catch my flight.
JMO - this should have been better planned out & the coins should have been displayed before day #4 of WFOM!
Here’s a pic from the bleachers:
As they won’t rotate around like past displays (think 1913 5C), it’s hard to imagine the public being able to view both sides of the coins, given the necessity of passing both sides, along with the downward tilt of the reverses.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
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David Tripp is on the right.
Did\nAnyone attend the talk by the Mont Chief Counsel? It sounded like it would have been fascinating.
It would be interesting to see the 11 coins on display.
Even more interesting would be having the opportunity to talk to the persons in uniform that are standing guard over the display. I would like hear from them how they view the 11 coins on display, how they view the persons connected to putting the 11 coins on display, how they view the members of the public who wait in line to get a chance to approach and view the 11 coins and how they view their employment as security personnel assigned to guard the 11 coins.
I was thinking comically about the abundant security. The U.S. government who stole the coins from the Langbord family, were extra secure they wouldn't be stolen back.
Here is a catwalk shot of the coins on display and presentation.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
Those guards don't look so tough. Somebody needs to get in there and F around to find out.
Long as no one tosses in any smokers were fine 😑
I managed to briefly get there and I saw the 1921 Saint. From a distance, it really had an attractive look. No further comment as I do not consider my look to be within the scope of an in hand review. I also saw the 1913 Liberty Nickel… I did not see the 1933 Saints.
In all fairness, I thought the David Lawrence convention center was a good venue. My main criticism was that there were no places to really sit for a spell…and there was room for that within the hall. And everyone can chime about age… but first please read the room.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I imagine they are from the us mint's very own police force and would either no comment or defer
If 250 privy marked sets of Lincoln cents can bring 18 million or so dollars in a fast paced auction, you can bet 10 or so monetized 1933 DE’s would bring more
Empty Nest Collection
,> @jacrispies said:
As much as I disagreed with and disliked the outcome of the court decision in favor of the government, it didn’t steal the coins from the Langbord family.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
May I respectfully suggest that a separate thread be started with the 1921 picture?
Last time I checked, 30-40 million was larger than 18 million. So I guess you're agreeing with me? Even if it was 60 million, that's nowhere near the previously mentioned 400 million.
There are significantly more people who can shell out 50-75k than a couple million, it's not the same market.
I saw the coins as well as you could from the distance the public was kept at. When I walked around to see the reverses (near impossible because of distance and they were displayed on an angle) I asked the police officer guarding the back of the case if he ever thought he'd be one day guarding coins. He got a pretty good laugh in and said no never would have guessed it.
What would have been better is a debate with someone from the other side -- Roger Burdette, someone from these forums -- to debate someone from the Mint or David Tripp or whoever on who is entitled to the coins.
I doubt they are up to speed with any of the details on the history of these 1933 Double Eagles. They probably know there was a custody dispute and a court trial but that's about it.
I was surprised that none of the eleven DEs were in graded NGC holders. I just looked at the old thread and it was stated they were graded but placed in re-closable holders.