What am I missing here? Very high auction winning bid on 1909-S VDB
This 1909-S VDB MS-65 RED Green CAC sold for $15,187.50 (with fees) last night on GC.
Looks nice for the grade, but not for 66 money.
Comments
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In answer to your question, you’re missing a thread title that lets members know the subject of what you’ might be missing.
Regardless of how the coin looks in the pictures, someone thought it was undergraded.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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I think the 09-S VDB is overrated in the first place.
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@Raybo said:
I think the 09-S VDB is overrated in the first place.Yes, agreed. I wonder if it will enjoy the same demand in a couple more generations. Lots of us geezers still around that looked for one in change. The Holy Grail for us.
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@RedRocket said:
@MFeld said:
Regardless of how the coin looks in the pictures, someone thought it was undergraded.
Not to be a pest, it would take (at least) two bidders to believe it was under-graded.
That’s not being a pest - it’s being informative.
I almost wrote “at least two bidders” but considered the remote possibility that there was a high reserve which was met by a single bidder.Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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@MFeld said:
@RedRocket said:
@MFeld said:
Regardless of how the coin looks in the pictures, someone thought it was undergraded.
Not to be a pest, it would take (at least) two bidders to believe it was under-graded.
That’s not being a pest - it’s being informative.
I almost wrote “at least two bidders” but considered the remote possibility that there was a high reserve which was met by a single bidder.Excellent point.
I wasn't aware GC allowed owners/submitters to set a reserve. I know some coins start out somewhat high- at the request of the submitter, I just didn't know they could start low and set a reserve that is higher than the starting bid.0 -
Ill go with who wanted it more
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@RedRocket said:
@MFeld said:
@RedRocket said:
@MFeld said:
Regardless of how the coin looks in the pictures, someone thought it was undergraded.
Not to be a pest, it would take (at least) two bidders to believe it was under-graded.
That’s not being a pest - it’s being informative.
I almost wrote “at least two bidders” but considered the remote possibility that there was a high reserve which was met by a single bidder.Excellent point.
I wasn't aware GC allowed owners/submitters to set a reserve. I know some coins start out somewhat high- at the request of the submitter, I just didn't know they could start low and set a reserve that is higher than the starting bid.I don’t know their policy on reserves or if there was a high opening bid.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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I don't think there was a reserve on this coin. I had it on my watchlist and noticed that the bid kept steadily increasing throughout the week. I took it off my watch list when it went over $11k.
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It is my observation that, on Greysheet retail price guide, it is quite common for a coin of grade X, with a green CAC sticker, to have a higher value than the same issue of grade X+1. This is especially true of expensive coin sat high grades.
So I'm not the least bit surprised it went for MS66 price. Whatever anybody thinks of the CAC stickers, the market values them extremely highly. And that is a beautiful, iconic coin.
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@MFeld said:
I don’t know their policy on reserves or if there was a high opening bid.
For the record, GC posts all bids on their website. It's always fun to see the record of bids.
In this case, the opening bid was $1 by bidder #1 who topped out at $500. Bidder 12's opening bid was $8,750 and was finally topped out at $13,000 by Bidder 13's $13,500 last seven second "Hail Mary" bid.
Sometimes two collectors just need to own a coin in spite of a price guide. Irrational exuberance!
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My guess is: it'll get returned and reappear in a future GC sale.
Official PCGS account of:
www.TallahasseeCoinClub.com
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The spotting kills it for me.
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@Raybo said:
I think the 09-S VDB is overrated in the first place.Truth^. If I had $16,000$15,000 to spend on a Lincoln penny that penny would be a 1914-D.
"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.
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Why chase a lightly spotted, pop. 1035/1300+ coin?
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
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Consider it will be vaporized when the sun goes Nova….why collect coins at all ? ( a play on a line from Annie Hall ). 😁
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Maybe it got the CAC before the spots showed up. The marks between the 'E' and the 'N' kind of bother me.
"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.
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For some inexplicable reason, RED early cents with that rose glow (on the portrait) tone seem to go for hefty prices.
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The V.D.B. looks flat, complete but flat. I like them full struck like 3D
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When mr1931s speaks people like you and your buddy RedRocket need to listen. 1914-D in true MS66 RD is about a $15K, maybe a few thou more coin if the right buyer happens on it and thinks it's exceptional. The OP SVDB is at most a $10K coin as it stands and it's a real crapshoot taking one's chance for 66 designation, CAC sticker notwithstanding.
I've got an NGC MS 64 Barber nickel (no spots) that I purchased recently that has a tiny but noticeable contact mark on it's obverse. Not on LIBERTY mind you, on the perimeter of the piece at about 10:00. That's why it's only 64 and not 65. The OP SVDB has tiny marks on it's reverse that are noticeable. It's lucky to be a 65, even luckier to have a green CAC sticker. Just ask yourself this question when looking at a coin that has been graded MS-65, "Am I looking at a GEM piece?"
"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.
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@mr1931S said:
Maybe it got the CAC before the spots showed up. The marks between the 'E' and the 'N' kind of bother me.It’s possible. Regardless, yuck at 65 RD money much less the hammer.
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@mr1931S said:
When mr1931s speaks people like you and your buddy RedRocket need to listen. 1914-D in true MS66 RD is about a $15K, maybe a few thou more coin if the right buyer happens on it and thinks it's exceptional. The OP SVDB is at most a $10K coin as it stands and it's a real crapshoot taking one's chance for 66 designation, CAC sticker notwithstanding.
I've got an NGC MS 64 Barber nickel (no spots) that I purchased recently that has a tiny but noticeable contact mark on it's obverse. Not on LIBERTY mind you, on the perimeter of the piece at about 10:00. That's why it's only 64 and not 65. The OP SVDB has tiny marks on it's reverse that are noticeable. It's lucky to be a 65, even luckier to have a green CAC sticker. Just ask yourself this question when looking at a coin that has been graded MS-65, "Am I looking at a GEM piece?"
If you’re going to preach to people that they need to listen (to you) you should get your numbers straight.
An MS66 RD 1914-D cent is worth in excess of $30,000, not “about a $15K, maybe a few thou more…”And in these parts, there aren’t any “Barber” nickels.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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@RedRocket said:
@Raybo said:
I think the 09-S VDB is overrated in the first place.Collectors have been making this claim since 1909 and yet the 09-S VDB remains and always has been in the top five most popular and collected coins.
Yeah, one of life's imponderables is the way some people feel that, just because they don't see the charm in something, that everyone else is wrong. Go figure.
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@MFeld said:
@mr1931S said:
When mr1931s speaks people like you and your buddy RedRocket need to listen. 1914-D in true MS66 RD is about a $15K, maybe a few thou more coin if the right buyer happens on it and thinks it's exceptional. The OP SVDB is at most a $10K coin as it stands and it's a real crapshoot taking one's chance for 66 designation, CAC sticker notwithstanding.
I've got an NGC MS 64 Barber nickel (no spots) that I purchased recently that has a tiny but noticeable contact mark on it's obverse. Not on LIBERTY mind you, on the perimeter of the piece at about 10:00. That's why it's only 64 and not 65. The OP SVDB has tiny marks on it's reverse that are noticeable. It's lucky to be a 65, even luckier to have a green CAC sticker. Just ask yourself this question when looking at a coin that has been graded MS-65, "Am I looking at a GEM piece?"
If you’re going to preach to people that they need to listen (to you) you should get your numbers straight.
An MS66 RD 1914-D cent is worth in excess of $30,000, not “about a $15K, maybe a few thou more…”And in these parts, there aren’t any “Barber” nickels.
I should have said "at the least ($15K)". $15K is a lot of money for any Lincoln cent in my parts. What "parts" is Mr. Feld referring to? I suppose you are saying not a Barber nickel because Barber's initials as designer do not appear on Liberty Head nickels,1883-1912. Are Barber's initials on the 5 known 1913 Liberty Head nickels? Has anyone looked?
"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.
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@MFeld said:
@mr1931S said:
When mr1931s speaks people like you and your buddy RedRocket need to listen. 1914-D in true MS66 RD is about a $15K, maybe a few thou more coin if the right buyer happens on it and thinks it's exceptional. The OP SVDB is at most a $10K coin as it stands and it's a real crapshoot taking one's chance for 66 designation, CAC sticker notwithstanding.
I've got an NGC MS 64 Barber nickel (no spots) that I purchased recently that has a tiny but noticeable contact mark on it's obverse. Not on LIBERTY mind you, on the perimeter of the piece at about 10:00. That's why it's only 64 and not 65. The OP SVDB has tiny marks on it's reverse that are noticeable. It's lucky to be a 65, even luckier to have a green CAC sticker. Just ask yourself this question when looking at a coin that has been graded MS-65, "Am I looking at a GEM piece?"
If you’re going to preach to people that they need to listen (to you) you should get your numbers straight.
An MS66 RD 1914-D cent is worth in excess of $30,000, not “about a $15K, maybe a few thou more…”And in these parts, there aren’t any “Barber” nickels.
Well then he should definitely buy one at $15k.
Of course, if he had $15k to throw around, he wouldn't need to sell his SVDB to buy concert tickets. So... the price is effectively infinity
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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Penny Lady has a lovely '14-D in her personal collection. I should have grabbed some pics of it when she posted a pic of her '14-D here awhile back.
"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.
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@mr1931S said:
@MFeld said:
@mr1931S said:
When mr1931s speaks people like you and your buddy RedRocket need to listen. 1914-D in true MS66 RD is about a $15K, maybe a few thou more coin if the right buyer happens on it and thinks it's exceptional. The OP SVDB is at most a $10K coin as it stands and it's a real crapshoot taking one's chance for 66 designation, CAC sticker notwithstanding.
I've got an NGC MS 64 Barber nickel (no spots) that I purchased recently that has a tiny but noticeable contact mark on it's obverse. Not on LIBERTY mind you, on the perimeter of the piece at about 10:00. That's why it's only 64 and not 65. The OP SVDB has tiny marks on it's reverse that are noticeable. It's lucky to be a 65, even luckier to have a green CAC sticker. Just ask yourself this question when looking at a coin that has been graded MS-65, "Am I looking at a GEM piece?"
If you’re going to preach to people that they need to listen (to you) you should get your numbers straight.
An MS66 RD 1914-D cent is worth in excess of $30,000, not “about a $15K, maybe a few thou more…”And in these parts, there aren’t any “Barber” nickels.
I should have said "at the least ($15K)". $15K is a lot of money for any Lincoln cent in my parts. What "parts" is Mr. Feld referring to? I suppose you are saying not a Barber nickel because Barber's initials as designer do not appear on Liberty Head nickels,1883-1912. Are Barber's initials on the 5 known 1913 Liberty Head nickels? Has anyone looked?
Yes. They looked. Closely.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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What could be more irrelevant than infinity?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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@RedRocket said:
The above display of childish behavior on @mr1931S part is what happens when you give him an audience.He has such little joy in his life. It's the least we can do.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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@jmlanzaf said:
@MFeld said:
@mr1931S said:
When mr1931s speaks people like you and your buddy RedRocket need to listen. 1914-D in true MS66 RD is about a $15K, maybe a few thou more coin if the right buyer happens on it and thinks it's exceptional. The OP SVDB is at most a $10K coin as it stands and it's a real crapshoot taking one's chance for 66 designation, CAC sticker notwithstanding.
I've got an NGC MS 64 Barber nickel (no spots) that I purchased recently that has a tiny but noticeable contact mark on it's obverse. Not on LIBERTY mind you, on the perimeter of the piece at about 10:00. That's why it's only 64 and not 65. The OP SVDB has tiny marks on it's reverse that are noticeable. It's lucky to be a 65, even luckier to have a green CAC sticker. Just ask yourself this question when looking at a coin that has been graded MS-65, "Am I looking at a GEM piece?"
If you’re going to preach to people that they need to listen (to you) you should get your numbers straight.
An MS66 RD 1914-D cent is worth in excess of $30,000, not “about a $15K, maybe a few thou more…”And in these parts, there aren’t any “Barber” nickels.
Well then he should definitely buy one at $15k.
Of course, if he had $15k to throw around, he wouldn't need to sell his SVDB to buy concert tickets. So... the price is effectively infinity
I couldn't resist taking the money regardless of what I used it for. $1K is a chunk of change for a coin in my parts. Price is effectively infinity? Lame. You can do better than posting effectively...nonsense.
"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.
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. . ! ?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrelevant?
"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.
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Is the dynamic duo a brother-brother team? I'm beginning to think so.
"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.
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Rather than nitpicking every little nick and spot, you should stand back and look at the strike and luster it possesses.
Judging by the shadow around the date alone it’s easy to see that it has a liquid like luster with natural color.
It is a beautiful example and the price does not surprise me in the least.
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@RedRocket said:
@mr1931S said:
Is the dynamic duo a brother-brother team? I'm beginning to think so.Have you set boundaries between you and common sense? I'm beginning to think so.
He just likes to troll his own posts. @IkesT nailed it years ago: he will take any attention, even negative attention. I consider it a mitzvah to respond to his posts.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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It is a 66RD that is why.
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@IkesT said:
Hey, that $1,000 he spent on Captain & Tennille Tribute Band tickets was money well spent!
Poor Toni Tennile. She deserved better. What a tragedy that was.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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Oh, you're right. It was Karen Carpenter that I was thinking of. Toni Tennille is still alive - tragically.
Wow! She's 86. Makes me feel old.All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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Did Karen Carpenter choke on a ham sandwitch?
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@RedRocket said:
Did Karen Carpenter choke on a ham sandwitch?
No, actually nobody in that cohort choked on a ham sandwich. There was a widespread rumor that Cass Elliot had choked on ham sandwich, but she actually died of a heart attack.
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@RedRocket said:
Did Karen Carpenter choke on a ham sandwitch?
Poor Mama Cass. Her daughter got mad and debunked that story.
Someone I went to school with actually lost his mother to a sandwich. So, it does happen.
Karen Carpenter died of heart failure after recovering from anorexia, IIRC.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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