Advice needed: cracked NGC slab, Newman/Green provenance & special label, CAC sticker
I recently acquired this 1901 PF66 CAC with a special Newman/Green label. It's a beautiful coin, but the slab has unfortunately been mishandled—there are cracks on 3 of the 4 corners, and even the CAC sticker has seen better days.
I'm trying to figure out what to do with the coin (if anything), but every decision seems like a trade-off. If I reholder w/NGC, I lose the special label. If I cross to PCGS, I risk losing the bean and roll the dice on TrueView quality. If I cross to CACG, I lose the sticker and I'm not sure if they honor the provenance from another TPG.
Just looking for ideas—what would you guys do? I do not believe the integrity of the slab seal has been compromised. I also uploaded a video of the coin to my IG: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DcGhWA7APET
Comments
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Are you certain that NGC couldn’t/wouldn’t reholder the coin with its current label? I’d check with them.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
13 -
Contact NGC abs see if they can reholdee with the label.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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@MFeld said:
Are you certain that NGC couldn’t/wouldn’t reholder the coin with its current label? I’d check with them.I’m not, no. I’ve never had a provenance or special label reholdered, and I believe this is an older special label so I assumed it would not be replicated. Would they reprint it exactly, or just put the Newman/Green names on a standard label? I will ask them.
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@P0CKETCHANGE said:
@MFeld said:
Are you certain that NGC couldn’t/wouldn’t reholder the coin with its current label? I’d check with them.I’m not, no. I’ve never had a provenance or special label reholdered, and I believe this is an older special label so I assumed it would not be replicated. Would they reprint it exactly, or just put the Newman/Green names on a standard label?
I don’t know the answer, but again, I recommend contacting NGC and asking them. If they will do that, I’d get the coin reholdered and submit it (along with pictures of the coin In the current and new holder) to CAC.
Edited to add: The coin looks gorgeous.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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I wouldn't worry about it. I my opinion, those microscopic cracks are insignificant and don't hurt the integrity of the slab enough to be really noticeable.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire10 -
Just looking for ideas—what would you guys do?
Really nice coin! I don't care for NGC holders and don't particularly like the label either. I would either cross to CACG or cross it to PCGS and then attempt to re-sticker, depending on my registry goals, if any. If it doesn't re-sticker (unlikely) it's not such a highly valued coin that you'll be sleeping outside.
I'm moderately confident that PCGS would carry over the provenance and very confident that CACG would but any other documentation to support it besides the label might be helpful.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
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@PerryHall said:
I wouldn't worry about it. I my opinion, those microscopic cracks are insignificant and don't hurt the integrity of the slab enough to be really noticeable.I wish I could say it didn't bother me, but it definitely does (and could be a problem if/when I decide to sell).
@lermish said:
Really nice coin! I don't care for NGC holders and don't particularly like the label either. I would either cross to CACG or cross it to PCGS and then attempt to re-sticker, depending on my registry goals, if any.Thanks. I'm not necessarily a fan of the label design per se, but I think these are somewhat recognizable as the Newman Collection labels awhile back. Perhaps I'm putting more value on that than it's worth.
I'll probably reach out to CACG as well and see what they say about carrying over the provenance(s). If I let go of the special label, I think I'd be pretty happy with it in a 66 CACG holder (and it's guaranteed to cross given the sticker).
The other curveball is that Newman isn't actually listed as the coin's provenance. It's just a label design. If you look up the coin on NGC, under "pedigree" it only includes Green.
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@P0CKETCHANGE said:
@PerryHall said:
I wouldn't worry about it. I my opinion, those microscopic cracks are insignificant and don't hurt the integrity of the slab enough to be really noticeable.I wish I could say it didn't bother me, but it definitely does (and could be a problem if/when I decide to sell).
@lermish said:
Really nice coin! I don't care for NGC holders and don't particularly like the label either. I would either cross to CACG or cross it to PCGS and then attempt to re-sticker, depending on my registry goals, if any.Thanks. I'm not necessarily a fan of the label design per se, but I think these are somewhat recognizable as the Newman Collection labels awhile back. Perhaps I'm putting more value on that than it's worth.
I'll probably reach out to CACG as well and see what they say about carrying over the provenance(s). If I let go of the special label, I think I'd be pretty happy with it in a 66 CACG holder (and it's guaranteed to cross given the sticker).
The other curveball is that Newman isn't actually listed as the coin's provenance. It's just a label design. If you look up the coin on NGC, under "pedigree" it only includes Green.
Maybe contact CACG and see if they’d consider crossing the coin and listing “Green-Newman” on the label?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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@lermish said:
Just looking for ideas—what would you guys do?
Really nice coin! I don't care for NGC holders and don't particularly like the label either. I would either cross to CACG or cross it to PCGS and then attempt to re-sticker, depending on my registry goals, if any. If it doesn't re-sticker (unlikely) it's not such a highly valued coin that you'll be sleeping outside.
I'm moderately confident that PCGS would carry over the provenance and very confident that CACG would but any other documentation to support it besides the label might be helpful.
Read my mind!
Seated Half Society member #38
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."1 -
@PerryHall said:
I wouldn't worry about it. I my opinion, those microscopic cracks are insignificant and don't hurt the integrity of the slab enough to be really noticeable.^ This
Nothing I see in the photos, the slab, label, or bean that would make me want to spend monies to change any part of this. And I do not understand your resell concern, you bought it why do you think it will be hard to sell in the future?
3 -
I can't really add anything to the advice given in the above posts, but I continue to be amazed by the disregard some people (prior owners in this case) have for their slabs.
In this case the label, provenance, and sticker are all important, yet because of mishandling are now at risk.
A Zircon Case would have avoided all of this and saved money and anxiety in the long run.
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@coinbuf said:
Nothing I see in the photos, the slab, label, or bean that would make me want to spend monies to change any part of this. And I do not understand your resell concern, you bought it why do you think it will be hard to sell in the future?I don’t like stuff I own and collect to look like it was thrown around carelessly, and I never said it would be “hard to sell”.
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Nice looking coin!
I would leave it as is.There are 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who do not.
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I'd call NGC and ask, sometimes they have old labels on hand.
There's also the possibility they just reuse the current label in a new holder, although I don't know if they'd consider this.
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The way I see it,if it really bothers you, you can either
- Contact NGC and see what your options are.
- Send it to PCGS or CACG and see if they will add the provenance. If you send it to PCGS; I don’t think you would have any problem getting it restickered by CAC.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
3 -
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@P0CKETCHANGE said:
@coinbuf said:
Nothing I see in the photos, the slab, label, or bean that would make me want to spend monies to change any part of this. And I do not understand your resell concern, you bought it why do you think it will be hard to sell in the future?I don’t like stuff I own and collect to look like it was thrown around carelessly, and I never said it would be “hard to sell”.
Fair enough, and true you never said it would be hard to sell; what you did say in your reply to Perry is "I wish I could say it didn't bother me, but it definitely does (and could be a problem if/when I decide to sell)." I personally think the difference between difficult and hard is just semantics in this context, but if it bothers you then I can rephrase. As it was not a problem for you when you bought it why do you think it could be a problem if/when you decide to sell?
I am not judging you it's your coin, money and choice, and if this was one of those awful trader bee holders I would certainly understand your reservations. You asked for advice and my advice is that I'm just not seeing the need to worry about these minor things.
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- Explain the situation to NGC and see if they will preserve the label and just replace the shell. It will bean. Or…
- It is guaranteed to cross at CACG with a legacy sticker notation. Ask about provenance, but I think it very likely would include it. Ask for the original label back. The cACG holder is optically superior and lets more light onto the coin which is useful for smaller toned coins.
I personally would lean towards #2. It’s a better display and the value (IMHO) is better on resale. To be honest, I would almost always go this route for NGC CAC combo (legacy stickers) unless there is a registry issue or you are otherwise looking to get it into PCGS-CAC holder.
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@coinbuf said:
@P0CKETCHANGE said:
@coinbuf said:
Nothing I see in the photos, the slab, label, or bean that would make me want to spend monies to change any part of this. And I do not understand your resell concern, you bought it why do you think it will be hard to sell in the future?I don’t like stuff I own and collect to look like it was thrown around carelessly, and I never said it would be “hard to sell”.
Fair enough, and true you never said it would be hard to sell; what you did say in your reply to Perry is "I wish I could say it didn't bother me, but it definitely does (and could be a problem if/when I decide to sell)." I personally think the difference between difficult and hard is just semantics in this context, but if it bothers you then I can rephrase. As it was not a problem for you when you bought it why do you think it could be a problem if/when you decide to sell?
I am not judging you it's your coin, money and choice, and if this was one of those awful trader bee holders I would certainly understand your reservations. You asked for opinions and mine is that I'm just not seeing the need to worry about these minor things.
I wasn’t aware of the slab damage issues when I purchased the coin. If they were visible in the seller photo or buried in the coin description, I didn’t notice.
It’s mostly a pride of ownership thing for me. I enjoy having my collection presented well, and that includes the cleanliness and condition of slabs. I definitely understand why that’s a trivial matter to others.
As a buyer, if I see a cracked slab when considering buying a coin I may hesitate (wonder if the slab is compromised or the coin has issues and has been passed around the bourse), and/or discount my offer by the cost of reholdering or crossing and restickering.
So I don’t think it’d be hard or difficult to sell, but some buyers may shy away from it or offer less.
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@PerryHall said:
I wouldn't worry about it. I my opinion, those microscopic cracks are insignificant and don't hurt the integrity of the slab enough to be really noticeable.I agree. You might want to take a trip to Bedminster NJ and show this slab and sticker to JA in person and get his opinion on the sticker. I think he will be amused and tell you it is on the way to becoming a platinum sticker and leave it alone as well. Of course, he will be fine with restickering it.
A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!1 -
@oreville said:
I think he will be amused and tell you it is on the way to becoming a platinum sticker and leave it alone as well.Lol. You can actually strip all of the green color off with hand sanitizer, which I inadvertently did once. So this would be my second platinum CAC.
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@PerryHall said:
I wouldn't worry about it. I my opinion, those microscopic cracks are insignificant and don't hurt the integrity of the slab enough to be really noticeable.They aren’t microscopic. There’s a whole chunk of one of the obverse corners missing.
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@JBK said:
I can't really add anything to the advice given in the above posts, but I continue to be amazed by the disregard some people (prior owners in this case) have for their slabs.In this case the label, provenance, and sticker are all important, yet because of mishandling are now at risk.
A Zircon Case would have avoided all of this and saved money and anxiety in the long run.
Thanks for the shoutout! Protecting vintage and other special slabs is exactly why these cases exist. Additionally, reholdering any slab is not cheap and typically means risking the coin being in the mail (unless done at a show).
Hopefully NGC can holder this with the same label and if that doesn’t work perhaps PCGS will cross it with the Green-Newman pedigree (?).
Zircon Cases - Protect Your Vintage Slabs www.ZirconCases.com
Former CoFounder of Choice Numismatics
All of my collection is in a safe deposit box!3 -
I've always thought it odd that under replacement holders, one cannot get a replacement cover exactly like the one presented to the company for replacement. Surely, it would not be that hard to print a label like the one and if necessary, put an R at the end of the same number. I cannot see a problem for the issuer to do that. Is there something I'm missing? JMO
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain0 -
@P0CKETCHANGE said:
It’s mostly a pride of ownership thing for me. I enjoy having my collection presented well, and that includes the cleanliness and condition of slabs. I definitely understand why that’s a trivial matter to others.
I appreciate you posting this thread. I have a Newman/Green CAC approved Half Dime I am considering moving to a CAC holder and I also was wondering if they would honor the provenance on a CAC label (I think they would). If you end up contacting CAC, please let us know what they say!
1 -
@P0CKETCHANGE said:
@PerryHall said:
I wouldn't worry about it. I my opinion, those microscopic cracks are insignificant and don't hurt the integrity of the slab enough to be really noticeable.They aren’t microscopic. There’s a whole chunk of one of the obverse corners missing.
When I said "microscopic", it was a bit of hyperbole on my part. I still don't think it's significant enough to worry about but it's your coin and if you want to pay to get it reslabbed and the cost of round-trip insured shipping with the possibly of being lost in the mail, go for it. If you or someone you trust attends a major coin show where NGC is set up for on-site grading, they may be able to just replace the shell and keep everything else intact for a small fee.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire0 -
@CuKevin said:
@JBK said:
I can't really add anything to the advice given in the above posts, but I continue to be amazed by the disregard some people (prior owners in this case) have for their slabs.In this case the label, provenance, and sticker are all important, yet because of mishandling are now at risk.
A Zircon Case would have avoided all of this and saved money and anxiety in the long run.
Thanks for the shoutout! Protecting vintage and other special slabs is exactly why these cases exist. Additionally, reholdering any slab is not cheap and typically means risking the coin being in the mail (unless done at a show).
Hopefully NGC can holder this with the same label and if that doesn’t work perhaps PCGS will cross it with the Green-Newman pedigree (?).
When are we going to start putting the older Zircon holder in Zircons? I always thought it was kinda funny that we encapsulate the slab, but I understand why and I have done it myself
Micah Langford - https://www.oldglorycoinsandcurrency.com/
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@oldglorycoins said:
When are we going to start putting the older Zircon holder in Zircons? I always thought it was kinda funny that we encapsulate the slab, but I understand why and I have done it myselfIt’s totally possible that older slabs will be graded and encapsulated in the future, in the same way that video game boxes/packaging are graded based on condition.
1 -
I had PCGS do a reholder on a gold Buffalo that had developed an interior crack in the slab about 3/4” long near the coin. Apparently there was a run on bad slabs that were developing cracks for that date and coin as it was new when I purchased it and was stored in a presentation case. I never touched it after I received it and noticed the crack about two years ago…and it bothered me ever since. I took it to the FUN show in Orlando in May, and PCGS said they had no problem reholdering it with the original insert that was signed by John Mercanti. Ran me right around $60 for everything and now it’s back in its case looking as good as new! Good luck, karl
3 -
@P0CKETCHANGE said:
@coinbuf said:
@P0CKETCHANGE said:
@coinbuf said:
Nothing I see in the photos, the slab, label, or bean that would make me want to spend monies to change any part of this. And I do not understand your resell concern, you bought it why do you think it will be hard to sell in the future?I don’t like stuff I own and collect to look like it was thrown around carelessly, and I never said it would be “hard to sell”.
Fair enough, and true you never said it would be hard to sell; what you did say in your reply to Perry is "I wish I could say it didn't bother me, but it definitely does (and could be a problem if/when I decide to sell)." I personally think the difference between difficult and hard is just semantics in this context, but if it bothers you then I can rephrase. As it was not a problem for you when you bought it why do you think it could be a problem if/when you decide to sell?
I am not judging you it's your coin, money and choice, and if this was one of those awful trader bee holders I would certainly understand your reservations. You asked for opinions and mine is that I'm just not seeing the need to worry about these minor things.
I wasn’t aware of the slab damage issues when I purchased the coin. If they were visible in the seller photo or buried in the coin description, I didn’t notice.
It’s mostly a pride of ownership thing for me. I enjoy having my collection presented well, and that includes the cleanliness and condition of slabs. I definitely understand why that’s a trivial matter to others.
As a buyer, if I see a cracked slab when considering buying a coin I may hesitate (wonder if the slab is compromised or the coin has issues and has been passed around the bourse), and/or discount my offer by the cost of reholdering or crossing and restickering.
So I don’t think it’d be hard or difficult to sell, but some buyers may shy away from it or offer less.
I fully understand this sentiment. Presentation of a set is really important. For me, more importantly than the case, would be the photography. I'd venture a guess and say CACG would add the provenance AND take the best picture.
1 -
@P0CKETCHANGE said:
@oldglorycoins said:
When are we going to start putting the older Zircon holder in Zircons? I always thought it was kinda funny that we encapsulate the slab, but I understand why and I have done it myselfIt’s totally possible that older slabs will be graded and encapsulated in the future, in the same way that video game boxes/packaging are graded based on condition.
It’s a shame that many older slabs have been ruined by collectors and dealers over the years. I only collect coins that have slabs that are mainly scratch and smudge free from the visual display area of the coin.
0 -
I bought one of the Newman Green labeled quarters in a Heritage auction, or at least I thought I did.
The auction listing showed the coin with the special label. When the coin arrived it was in a plain white NGC slab with no provenance. I said whoa there Heritage- that’s not what you advertised in the listing and without the provenance and special label I don’t want it.
They took the coin back, and less than two weeks later sent it back to me with the correct special Newman Green insert- so NGC does have the ability to reproduce older slab inserts if they want to.
12 -
ALWAYS A PLEASURE to see an absolute favorite error coin of mine that I do not own !
Happy Tuesday !
Lindy
@JBK said:
I can't really add anything to the advice given in the above posts, but I continue to be amazed by the disregard some people (prior owners in this case) have for their slabs.In this case the label, provenance, and sticker are all important, yet because of mishandling are now at risk.
A Zircon Case would have avoided all of this and saved money and anxiety in the long run.
2 -
Update
As @MFeld and others suggested, I contacted NGC and CACG.
NGC took a couple days to reply, and stated that they could neither reprint nor reuse the current label, and that it would be reholdered with a standard generic label with the dual pedigree.
CACG responded to my email in 5 minutes (literally, exactly 5 minutes…wow!) and confirmed they’d honor and carry over both the Newman and Green pedigrees.
I will most likely go the CACG route and drop it off at the next FUN show.
12 -
@P0CKETCHANGE said:
UpdateAs @MFeld and others suggested, I contacted NGC and CACG.
NGC took a couple days to reply, and stated that they could neither reprint nor reuse the current label, and that it would be reholdered with a standard generic label with the dual pedigree.
CACG responded to my email in 5 minutes (literally, exactly 5 minutes…wow!) and confirmed they’d honor and carry over both the Newman and Green pedigrees.
I will most likely go the CACG route and drop it off at the next FUN show.
I’m sorry and disappointed to hear that about NGC, but glad and not surprised about CACG.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
4 -
On a reholdering of a CACG slabbed graded coin does CACG still take all submissions back to Virginia Beach?
A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!0 -
@oreville said:
On a reholdering of a CACG slabbed graded coin does CACG still take all submissions back to Virginia Beach?This is a crossover but yes, CACG does not do any on-site grading. They take all subs, regardless of type, back to Virginia Beach.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
0 -
@P0CKETCHANGE said:
UpdateAs @MFeld and others suggested, I contacted NGC and CACG.
NGC took a couple days to reply, and stated that they could neither reprint nor reuse the current label, and that it would be reholdered with a standard generic label with the dual pedigree.
CACG responded to my email in 5 minutes (literally, exactly 5 minutes…wow!) and confirmed they’d honor and carry over both the Newman and Green pedigrees.
I will most likely go the CACG route and drop it off at the next FUN show.
Seriously?! They’re going to crack it anyway, just keep the entire insert and put a new clear box around it, it’s not rocket science! Saves resources too!
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
2 -
Hey. You purchased this coin for a specific reason.
That reason has probably not changed. I vote Love it like it is.
or sell it to me if you no like.
1 -
Safe and secure in my new Zircon case. These things are awesome! Thanks @CuKevin
7 -
Is this the same holder? If it broke the hermetic seal, I would have it reholdered to provide chemical stability in the environment around the coin.
0 -
@P0CKETCHANGE said:
Safe and secure in my new Zircon case. These things are awesome! Thanks @CuKevinThe Zircon cases are super high quality and really nice but...they are quite bulky and heavy. I have one valuable coin in an OGH that I keep in a Zircon but it takes up A LOT of space in the safe deposit box.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy one for an old holder that needed protection but for any modern holder it is tough for me to trade-off the space and expense.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
0 -
@cameonut2011 said:
Is this the same holder? If it broke the hermetic seal, I would have it reholdered to provide chemical stability in the environment around the coin.I'm planning to reholder it with CACG in January.
@lermish said:
The Zircon cases are super high quality and really nice but...they are quite bulky and heavy. I have one valuable coin in an OGH that I keep in a Zircon but it takes up A LOT of space in the safe deposit box.I wouldn't hesitate to buy one for an old holder that needed protection but for any modern holder it is tough for me to trade-off the space and expense.
Yes, if I decide to get more of them to protect some of my older holders (I have quite a few), I may have to upgrade to a larger SDB. But SDB leases are pretty cheap. I think to double my box size it's like an extra $50 a year.
No real need to use them for modern holders, although I may throw my special label Bass patterns in them for a little extra safekeeping.
5 -
@P0CKETCHANGE said:
@cameonut2011 said:
Is this the same holder? If it broke the hermetic seal, I would have it reholdered to provide chemical stability in the environment around the coin.I'm planning to reholder it with CACG in January.
Sorry I had missed the update post before. I would ask for the original NGC label back in case any potential buyer is interested in it if you ever sell. I like the acrylic case you are using to protect the slab.
0 -
Off subject; but, those ordinary proof 1901 Barber dimes somehow preserved nicely. Here is mine. Also PF66 CAC.
1 -
@P0CKETCHANGE said:
Safe and secure in my new Zircon case. These things are awesome! Thanks @CuKevinYou are welcome! I'm glad you like it.
Zircon Cases - Protect Your Vintage Slabs www.ZirconCases.com
Former CoFounder of Choice Numismatics
All of my collection is in a safe deposit box!0
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