@mintonlypls said:
The cracking out game is officially over...higher grading standards today than just a few years ago. Todays 8s...look like yesterdays 9s.
8's? Try 6's!
I haven't subbed cards in almost a year. Most of which were vintage and agreed with what I got on those. But I did send in some ultra moderns that at lowest should have 9'd and came back as 7's. So who knows. But at $40 a card (including shipping and tax), I'm just holding onto my cards raw for the time being, and maybe someday they'll be worth sending in. For the most part all of them are PC cards that I'd like slabbed, but don't think it's worth the fees as of right now.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ca8AAeSwcShqdPN1/s-l1600.webp
Just one of many examples of why I won't be submitting any of the numerous '70s and early '80s OPC (as well as some Topps) baseball I've acquired over the past 10+ years. Not very long ago, these cards would have been 8's on most days and at other times 7's and 9's since I've been very particular about corner quality and centering when selecting cards. Unless this particular example has surface issues which aren't evident in the photo, the centering and corners would have been good enough for a 9 for most of PSA's existence; that's potentially a 3-point differential!!! Graders who don't understand the basic differences between cards produced 40+ years ago and modern/ultra modern sports and TCG cards have no business grading older cards. My assumption is that is exactly what the problem is with grading today, nothing more, nothing less. The upside for me is that I will still have the exact same cards in my collection and will be able to purchase more raw and accurately graded (in my opinion, of course) cards with the money I would have otherwise spent on grading.
@80sOPC said:
Looks to be within or close to 9 guidelines for centering and looks like an 8 all day to me.
Agreed. Absent any other issues, centering is within PSA 9 guidelines.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
so the big change when Cohen took over was the surface issues. SGC takes them to account that's why you don't hardly see any SCG 10 from 1986 and down. BUt now, PSA is hammering them a little more than SGC, by a grade or so most times. At least that's what is was about 1 year ago.
If these same grading standards would have been used in the past, no one would hardly have 10's. This is also the reason I post about 4SC. They seem to have endless 10's even when they don't look like 10's.
The Gossage should be an 8 8.5 or 9, just viewing it from here.
I stand corrected. It looked off to me, but I measured it... My eyes can't be trusted.
border inches ratio
left / right 53 / 43 px 0.116 / 0.094 55/45 (left wider by 0.56 mm)
top / bottom 30 / 45 px 0.067 / 0.100 40/60 (design sits high by 0.85 mm)
Against PSA's front-centering ceilings — 10 = 55/45, 9 = 60/40, 8 = 65/35, 7 = 70/30, 6 = 80/20 — this card is at the Gem Mint limit left-to-right and the Mint limit top-to-bottom. So centering supports a 9. Whatever pulled it to a 6 is surface, edges or corners, not the cut.
Potential legitimate surface issues makes buying lower grade cards online tricky. If I saw this card in person and felt that it was undergraded, I’d have no hesitation about buying it at a fair price. However, buying it online without having a clue about potential surface issues is another matter. I suppose I just need to attend more card shows, although finding nice OPC’s from the era I collect is like trying to find needles in haystacks. Thanks for all the good feedback!
This was my concern with my last sub. They gave most of the card, early 2000s pack pulled cards 7s. Just an endless string of 7s on my order that all look like early generation 8-9s. That was my thought, the grader basically hit the 7 button over and over. Totally bizarre, no variance, no half grades, just spammed 7s on cards with the odd small issue.
Stop sending them cards. People are suggesting that grading is nothing but a money grab and only benefits the select few who have a golden ticket with a system gone totally rogue. It’s hard to argue with mounds of evidence being presented by people with a long history of submitting. Did they all suddenly forget how to examine their cards? The drug dependence of grading is a sickness. Go to rehab.
Well one issue is that a graded card reduces the transactional friction between buyers and sellers as most aren't experts and in the age of online shopping is almost necessary to have as the buyer knows pretty much what the are getting. Even in the old days purchasing a raw card in person at a show could be dubious because of restoration and such.
@HOMETOWNSPORTS said:
Well one issue is that a graded card reduces the transactional friction between buyers and sellers as most aren't experts and in the age of online shopping is almost necessary to have as the buyer knows pretty much what the are getting. Even in the old days purchasing a raw card in person at a show could be dubious because of restoration and such.
The transactional friction is significantly reduced for those who can't get stuff back in a reasonable amount of time. If the process of getting cards graded causes further anxiety and stress, then I must believe that there's a symbiotic relationship developing between PSA and the drug distributors who make Xanax.
As for buyers knowing what they are getting, plenty of evidence exists about how reckless the grading process has become while favoring the aforementioned holders of golden tickets. It just reinforces the notion that we all need to get very cautious about how and where we put our funds. Never get cheated.
Not sure who you’re addressing but no anxiety here. One sub in like 5 years for me. I’m leveraging up on this environment and buying undergraded bangers. And when it comes time to sell, will send my raw stuff to a guy like Greg Morris. Will probably crack a bunch of under graded stuff as well to realize the proper price.
The hobby is constantly changing and I’ve never had any issues keeping it fun.
@ElMagoStrikeZone I certainly try to never get cheated (which is what almost everyone does I think). Maybe I need to get or learn how to get a "Golden Ticket". . I think you mean transactional friction is increased due to delays of service. Yeah I got off Xanax years ago and feel much better. I do like time travel so maybe I go back in time and fix a few things . Rock on!
@80sOPC said:
Not sure who you’re addressing but no anxiety here. One sub in like 5 years for me. I’m leveraging up on this environment and buying undergraded bangers. And when it comes time to sell, will send my raw stuff to a guy like Greg Morris. Will probably crack a bunch of under graded stuff as well to realize the proper price.
The hobby is constantly changing and I’ve never had any issues keeping it fun.
It does feel like there’s a way to take advantage of the current situation. You sound like you’ve found one.
Find undergraded cards in new slab - easy, crack them out and consign to greg morris, some "raw dog" overpays, then submits to PSA, the cycle then begins anew.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972) Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
@HOMETOWNSPORTS said:
Well one issue is that a graded card reduces the transactional friction between buyers and sellers as most aren't experts and in the age of online shopping is almost necessary to have as the buyer knows pretty much what the are getting.
True. One of the reasons for grading, especially in the old days, was that you could buy sight unseen and have some confidence in what you're getting. Now, it's 'buy the card, not the slab' where the buyer must evaluate the card, despite the grade, since the grade can barely be trusted anymore.
Even in the old days purchasing a raw card in person at a show could be dubious because of restoration and such.
Buying a slab can be dubious now as well. Youtube guys like Kurts card care and Slab Rehab have shown time and time again that their restored cards are getting slabbed. And it seems the sentiment, at least from modern collectors, is that restoring cards is an acceptable practice.
My guess is that as grading gets more and more expensive, exclusionary and questionable (in terms of standards) that more and more folks will be OK with restored cards in slabs. Lots of things will be more acceptable as it gets harder/more expensive to obtain shorter supplies of things by more people.
I feel like the amount of cards graded on a monthly/yearly basis has to decrease. Because clearly at a certain price point, it cant be done. Grading feels expensive now, its certainly more expensive than it used to be, but its not expensive enough to keep 15 million cards from coming through their doors. And clearly the folks that stopped doing Doordash and Uber to become PSA graders have degraded the overall product/service substantially. So I think the only path to keep PSA from dealing with another 15 to 30 to 45 million cards next year is substantially raise prices.
Then people check out fully or partially. 15 to 20 years ago, I used to feel like grading was too expensive to justify sending in a lot of cards in a year, even when it was a lot cheaper. I think its a situation where the price of grading has increased but the value of cards you can pull from a pack that was produced in the last 3 years has gone up a lot more than that per card grading fee. It used to feel like you had to buy a box from BBCE that was 25 years old to maybe pull anything worth submitting at a $10 $12 per card fee.
Now you have maybe 800 people every day busting new Pokemon boxes and streaming it. Then a ton of others opening who just dont have an audience. So PSA probably needs to do something to keep that from being something that makes so much sense. Maybe some folks need to open some boxes and then feel like it was a fail and decide hey that was expensive and I missed. Maybe I should not spend 2 hours every day on Youtube opening packs. Let me save up some money and decide if it makes sense to buy more boxes and packs then.
I think you just need to have more people say out of all those packs and boxes I opened only 1 or 2 is worth a $50 fee. Then Pokemon can stop printing 10 million boxes of every new series. Then maybe all the Doordash folks can go back to delivering food and people who spend $50 on getting one card graded can feel that the grade received is a little more true to the established standards.
All this grading and not one person on this board shares a Pokémon pick up. Who and where are they. Probably flying around in there jet right now. Pokémon!!! When will you learn grading doesn’t make you better it actually make s you worse!
My prediction is grading will
Slow when the cost to grade 1 card is 2x the cost of 1 box of cards. Why not right?
@ElMagoStrikeZone said:
Stop sending them cards. People are suggesting that grading is nothing but a money grab and only benefits the select few who have a golden ticket with a system gone totally rogue. It’s hard to argue with mounds of evidence being presented by people with a long history of submitting. Did they all suddenly forget how to examine their cards? The drug dependence of grading is a sickness. Go to rehab.
I recently sent a bunch of my PSA 9's from the late 70's to Greg Morris and I received at least double of what I paid on every card. Every sale was much higher then recent comps. I purchased all of the cards within the last 18 months. If they were not graded I would have received a lot less. The final figure would not have been close. Having your cards graded by PSA is a must if one plans on selling them for the best possible profit.
If a guy is buying to hold for the long term than I guess buying and keeping your cards raw could make sense but IMO that would only be for a small group of collectors who are experts on grading and restoration.
@ElMagoStrikeZone said:
Stop sending them cards. People are suggesting that grading is nothing but a money grab and only benefits the select few who have a golden ticket with a system gone totally rogue. It’s hard to argue with mounds of evidence being presented by people with a long history of submitting. Did they all suddenly forget how to examine their cards? The drug dependence of grading is a sickness. Go to rehab.
I recently sent a bunch of my PSA 9's from the late 70's to Greg Morris and I received at least double of what I paid on every card. Every sale was much higher then recent comps. I purchased all of the cards within the last 18 months. If they were not graded I would have received a lot less. The final figure would not have been close. Having your cards graded by PSA is a must if one plans on selling them for the best possible profit.
If a guy is buying to hold for the long term than I guess buying and keeping your cards raw could make sense but IMO that would only be for a small group of collectors who are experts on grading and restoration.
My reply is honestly directed at those who complain about PSA redundantly while knowing the truth about their methods. I’ve no reservations about the importance of getting the most for your dollars spent on behalf of cards and building a nice stash. I’m doing the same thing as you. Buy cards, sell cards, make money. The methods may differ but the goal is exactly the same. Whether they’re graded or not. I used to sell graded cards by the thousands. These days I sell raw cards by the thousands. Same same.
@ElMagoStrikeZone said:
Stop sending them cards. People are suggesting that grading is nothing but a money grab and only benefits the select few who have a golden ticket with a system gone totally rogue. It’s hard to argue with mounds of evidence being presented by people with a long history of submitting. Did they all suddenly forget how to examine their cards? The drug dependence of grading is a sickness. Go to rehab.
I recently sent a bunch of my PSA 9's from the late 70's to Greg Morris and I received at least double of what I paid on every card. Every sale was much higher then recent comps. I purchased all of the cards within the last 18 months. If they were not graded I would have received a lot less. The final figure would not have been close. Having your cards graded by PSA is a must if one plans on selling them for the best possible profit.
If a guy is buying to hold for the long term than I guess buying and keeping your cards raw could make sense but IMO that would only be for a small group of collectors who are experts on grading and restoration.
My reply is honestly directed at those who complain about PSA redundantly while knowing the truth about their methods. I’ve no reservations about the importance of getting the most for your dollars spent on behalf of cards and building a nice stash. I’m doing the same thing as you. Buy cards, sell cards, make money. The methods may differ but the goal is exactly the same. Whether they’re graded or not. I used to sell graded cards by the thousands. These days I sell raw cards by the thousands. Same same.
Appreciate the response and what you said makes sense.
@UlyssesExtravaganza said:
I feel like the amount of cards graded on a monthly/yearly basis has to decrease. Because clearly at a certain price point, it cant be done. Grading feels expensive now, its certainly more expensive than it used to be, but its not expensive enough to keep 15 million cards from coming through their doors. And clearly the folks that stopped doing Doordash and Uber to become PSA graders have degraded the overall product/service substantially. So I think the only path to keep PSA from dealing with another 15 to 30 to 45 million cards next year is substantially raise prices.
Then people check out fully or partially. 15 to 20 years ago, I used to feel like grading was too expensive to justify sending in a lot of cards in a year, even when it was a lot cheaper. I think its a situation where the price of grading has increased but the value of cards you can pull from a pack that was produced in the last 3 years has gone up a lot more than that per card grading fee. It used to feel like you had to buy a box from BBCE that was 25 years old to maybe pull anything worth submitting at a $10 $12 per card fee.
Now you have maybe 800 people every day busting new Pokemon boxes and streaming it. Then a ton of others opening who just dont have an audience. So PSA probably needs to do something to keep that from being something that makes so much sense. Maybe some folks need to open some boxes and then feel like it was a fail and decide hey that was expensive and I missed. Maybe I should not spend 2 hours every day on Youtube opening packs. Let me save up some money and decide if it makes sense to buy more boxes and packs then.
I think you just need to have more people say out of all those packs and boxes I opened only 1 or 2 is worth a $50 fee. Then Pokemon can stop printing 10 million boxes of every new series. Then maybe all the Doordash folks can go back to delivering food and people who spend $50 on getting one card graded can feel that the grade received is a little more true to the established standards.
You're right on with this. To piggyback, my question would be, if Pokemon is indeed running the show at PSA and is where all the money and backlog both are coming from, why not raise only the TCG prices and lower/leave the sports cards prices? They're two different markets that ebb and flow within the grading business. They'd still be capitalising on the Pokemon craze with raising those prices, while also eventually getting to a point of lower subs because financially it doesn't make sense. Plus, if they put effort back into sports cards subbing prices, it would drive that market up as well.
Good point. Let’s see what next year tells us. 230.00 bulk price? Slow down or it jumps to 699.00(just the cost of a nice luxury auto per month) Psa 5 chazy
@swish54 Great idea, hopefully PSA will segment the grading of Vintage sports cards from TCG such as Pokemon. Vintage Sports card grading was the CORE of the business and should NOT be abandoned!!
@ElMagoStrikeZone said:
Stop sending them cards. People are suggesting that grading is nothing but a money grab and only benefits the select few who have a golden ticket with a system gone totally rogue. It’s hard to argue with mounds of evidence being presented by people with a long history of submitting. Did they all suddenly forget how to examine their cards? The drug dependence of grading is a sickness. Go to rehab.
I recently sent a bunch of my PSA 9's from the late 70's to Greg Morris and I received at least double of what I paid on every card. Every sale was much higher then recent comps. I purchased all of the cards within the last 18 months. If they were not graded I would have received a lot less. The final figure would not have been close. Having your cards graded by PSA is a must if one plans on selling them for the best possible profit.
If a guy is buying to hold for the long term than I guess buying and keeping your cards raw could make sense but IMO that would only be for a small group of collectors who are experts on grading and restoration.
It's a version of high stakes gambling. People will always try to stretch a PSA 9 to a PSA 10.
I sent in plenty of 89 UD KGJ rookies before I hit my PSA 10. I wish I hadn't sold it.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
@HOMETOWNSPORTS said: @swish54 Great idea, hopefully PSA will segment the grading of Vintage sports cards from TCG such as Pokemon. Vintage Sports card grading was the CORE of the business and should NOT be abandoned!!
I spoke with a PSA representative at the National about this exact thing. PSA needs to recognize that the whole reason they are the leaders in TPG is because of the vintage collectors. The set registry idea was a brilliant concept and those who invested in that idea took PSA to a different level. Collectors took their hard-earned money and graded $1-10 commons for the hefty price of $6. At the time this was a great value. However, now the price is $25.00 to grade $1-10 commons all to have them misgrade/undergrade the card 50% of the time? Any legitimate business would separate the Pokemon/Disney cards from the vintage. Pricing is different because the market is different. Every country is opening up new cards and using PSA to grade it. PSA can't think vintage collectors will continue with this absorbent cost for their $20 cards. Or can they?
Looking for high grade rookie cards and unopened boxes/cases
@HOMETOWNSPORTS said: @swish54 Great idea, hopefully PSA will segment the grading of Vintage sports cards from TCG such as Pokemon. Vintage Sports card grading was the CORE of the business and should NOT be abandoned!!
I spoke with a PSA representative at the National about this exact thing. PSA needs to recognize that the whole reason they are the leaders in TPG is because of the vintage collectors. The set registry idea was a brilliant concept and those who invested in that idea took PSA to a different level. Collectors took their hard-earned money and graded $1-10 commons for the hefty price of $6. At the time this was a great value. However, now the price is $25.00 to grade $1-10 commons all to have them misgrade/undergrade the card 50% of the time? Any legitimate business would separate the Pokemon/Disney cards from the vintage. Pricing is different because the market is different. Every country is opening up new cards and using PSA to grade it. PSA can't think vintage collectors will continue with this absorbent cost for their $20 cards. Or can they?
I agree with you completely regarding the set registry. It's kind of sad that PSA has effectively torpedoed the process of subbing even pack fresh mint commons because of the higher submission fees.
That said, the value of PSA 8, 9 and 10 common cards has risen significantly over the years and is likely to continue to do so as supply of freshly graded mint common cards is likely to continue dwindling due to lack of volume. I remember when you could purchase PSA 9 70s Topps commons for 10 bucks or less in many cases. These days, even the easier PSA 9s are commanding nice premiums with the low pop cards reaching almost stratospheric levels.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@HOMETOWNSPORTS said: @swish54 Great idea, hopefully PSA will segment the grading of Vintage sports cards from TCG such as Pokemon. Vintage Sports card grading was the CORE of the business and should NOT be abandoned!!
I spoke with a PSA representative at the National about this exact thing. PSA needs to recognize that the whole reason they are the leaders in TPG is because of the vintage collectors. The set registry idea was a brilliant concept and those who invested in that idea took PSA to a different level. Collectors took their hard-earned money and graded $1-10 commons for the hefty price of $6. At the time this was a great value. However, now the price is $25.00 to grade $1-10 commons all to have them misgrade/undergrade the card 50% of the time? Any legitimate business would separate the Pokemon/Disney cards from the vintage. Pricing is different because the market is different. Every country is opening up new cards and using PSA to grade it. PSA can't think vintage collectors will continue with this absorbent cost for their $20 cards. Or can they?
If you glance at your rear view mirror, you can barely make out the images of vintage collectors waving a fond farewell. Providing for the set registry was the reason I even bothered to get cards graded and sold in the first place. Then it snowballed. In similar fashion, PSA's own snowball has now consumed everything else in its path. Vintage died in the avalanche. Kudos to those who managed to hang onto whatever they have now that they've become rather pricey cards, long ago cheap due to perception and 6 dollar grading.
Elmago is correct. Looks like SGC is the vintage (sports) grader right now either by design or by happen chance. They are grading about 2.5 million per year currently and are stockpiled also.
PSA CGC are on the POKEMON stuff, BECKETT newer sports stuff. 1998 and up
So it looks like the following
PSA mainly Pokemon Magic etc
CGC same as above
SGC all sports cards including vintage
BEckett all sports cards mainly from 1998 and up. (not sure about pokemon)
TAG - no clue I assume Pokemon
^ and CU cut SGC staff down to almost nothing. The ones left probably are taking out their frustrations on the submitters as there is no one else they can do that to...
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972) Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
PSA included a sticker with my order, what's the sticker for?
It appears to be a cert number for a card that isnt mine
Llamas and alpacas are camels. They aren't like camels, or related. They are camels. When was anyone going to tell me this?! How long had Bill Nye been holding out on us?
@handyman said:
Submission number sticker they put on the outside box ? or the lable on the boxes with cards. Not for a card or case I think
The number was not my submission number or account number or customer. It is a cert number for a Carmelo Anthony card with may just have sold on ebay by PSA. I think this was included with my order by mistake
Llamas and alpacas are camels. They aren't like camels, or related. They are camels. When was anyone going to tell me this?! How long had Bill Nye been holding out on us?
I think that is looking at the back side of the new slab label inserts. One of the security improvements to prevent the labels from being taken out and reused they will now stick to the slab. Is the number the same on both sides of the label? ie. if you peel it back a bit.
Now lets see. I have no clue. As what anything is here.
Wow I got a POKEMON Card go figure.
2017 POKEMON JAPANESE SUN & MOON STRENGTH EXPANSION PACK SHINING LEGENDS #028 SHNG.VOLCANION-HOLO S.E.P. SHINING LEGENDS PSA 10
Comments
Census medians will be maintained.
Those here should be very careful in cracking out and resubbing
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
8's? Try 6's!
I haven't subbed cards in almost a year. Most of which were vintage and agreed with what I got on those. But I did send in some ultra moderns that at lowest should have 9'd and came back as 7's. So who knows. But at $40 a card (including shipping and tax), I'm just holding onto my cards raw for the time being, and maybe someday they'll be worth sending in. For the most part all of them are PC cards that I'd like slabbed, but don't think it's worth the fees as of right now.
So, basically you got the 3 point discount instead of have the MK assigned to the label!
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ca8AAeSwcShqdPN1/s-l1600.webp
Just one of many examples of why I won't be submitting any of the numerous '70s and early '80s OPC (as well as some Topps) baseball I've acquired over the past 10+ years. Not very long ago, these cards would have been 8's on most days and at other times 7's and 9's since I've been very particular about corner quality and centering when selecting cards. Unless this particular example has surface issues which aren't evident in the photo, the centering and corners would have been good enough for a 9 for most of PSA's existence; that's potentially a 3-point differential!!! Graders who don't understand the basic differences between cards produced 40+ years ago and modern/ultra modern sports and TCG cards have no business grading older cards. My assumption is that is exactly what the problem is with grading today, nothing more, nothing less. The upside for me is that I will still have the exact same cards in my collection and will be able to purchase more raw and accurately graded (in my opinion, of course) cards with the money I would have otherwise spent on grading.
That looks like 7 centering though. Is a 6 that far off?
Looks to be within or close to 9 guidelines for centering and looks like an 8 all day to me.
Agreed. Absent any other issues, centering is within PSA 9 guidelines.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
so the big change when Cohen took over was the surface issues. SGC takes them to account that's why you don't hardly see any SCG 10 from 1986 and down. BUt now, PSA is hammering them a little more than SGC, by a grade or so most times. At least that's what is was about 1 year ago.
If these same grading standards would have been used in the past, no one would hardly have 10's. This is also the reason I post about 4SC. They seem to have endless 10's even when they don't look like 10's.
The Gossage should be an 8 8.5 or 9, just viewing it from here.
I stand corrected. It looked off to me, but I measured it... My eyes can't be trusted.
left / right 53 / 43 px 0.116 / 0.094 55/45 (left wider by 0.56 mm)
top / bottom 30 / 45 px 0.067 / 0.100 40/60 (design sits high by 0.85 mm)
Against PSA's front-centering ceilings — 10 = 55/45, 9 = 60/40, 8 = 65/35, 7 = 70/30, 6 = 80/20 — this card is at the Gem Mint limit left-to-right and the Mint limit top-to-bottom. So centering supports a 9. Whatever pulled it to a 6 is surface, edges or corners, not the cut.
Or NOT surface, edges, or corners.
Potential legitimate surface issues makes buying lower grade cards online tricky. If I saw this card in person and felt that it was undergraded, I’d have no hesitation about buying it at a fair price. However, buying it online without having a clue about potential surface issues is another matter. I suppose I just need to attend more card shows, although finding nice OPC’s from the era I collect is like trying to find needles in haystacks. Thanks for all the good feedback!
Yeah. That was just the bot output. It has to synthesize something human sounding or it hasn't done it's job.
This guy sent in (8) 1969 Topps Clemente's.
They all got the same grade of PSA6.
Is PSA actually evaluating the cards or just rushing through them to catch up on their backlog?
(reddit post includes a 1-minute video):
https://www.reddit.com/r/baseballcards/comments/1vi969g/8_of_the_same_cards_all_got_psa_6s/
This was my concern with my last sub. They gave most of the card, early 2000s pack pulled cards 7s. Just an endless string of 7s on my order that all look like early generation 8-9s. That was my thought, the grader basically hit the 7 button over and over. Totally bizarre, no variance, no half grades, just spammed 7s on cards with the odd small issue.
Stop sending them cards. People are suggesting that grading is nothing but a money grab and only benefits the select few who have a golden ticket with a system gone totally rogue. It’s hard to argue with mounds of evidence being presented by people with a long history of submitting. Did they all suddenly forget how to examine their cards? The drug dependence of grading is a sickness. Go to rehab.
Well one issue is that a graded card reduces the transactional friction between buyers and sellers as most aren't experts and in the age of online shopping is almost necessary to have as the buyer knows pretty much what the are getting. Even in the old days purchasing a raw card in person at a show could be dubious because of restoration and such.
The transactional friction is significantly reduced for those who can't get stuff back in a reasonable amount of time. If the process of getting cards graded causes further anxiety and stress, then I must believe that there's a symbiotic relationship developing between PSA and the drug distributors who make Xanax.
As for buyers knowing what they are getting, plenty of evidence exists about how reckless the grading process has become while favoring the aforementioned holders of golden tickets. It just reinforces the notion that we all need to get very cautious about how and where we put our funds. Never get cheated.
Not sure who you’re addressing but no anxiety here. One sub in like 5 years for me. I’m leveraging up on this environment and buying undergraded bangers. And when it comes time to sell, will send my raw stuff to a guy like Greg Morris. Will probably crack a bunch of under graded stuff as well to realize the proper price.
The hobby is constantly changing and I’ve never had any issues keeping it fun.
@ElMagoStrikeZone I certainly try to never get cheated (which is what almost everyone does I think). Maybe I need to get or learn how to get a "Golden Ticket".
. I think you mean transactional friction is increased due to delays of service. Yeah I got off Xanax years ago and feel much better. I do like time travel so maybe I go back in time and fix a few things 
. Rock on!
It does feel like there’s a way to take advantage of the current situation. You sound like you’ve found one.
Find undergraded cards in new slab - easy, crack them out and consign to greg morris, some "raw dog" overpays, then submits to PSA, the cycle then begins anew.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
Goes to show… just buy PSA 6-7 to get signed, if PSA is going to give you a 6-7 either way . Better yet buy sgc 6-7 even cheaper
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
True. One of the reasons for grading, especially in the old days, was that you could buy sight unseen and have some confidence in what you're getting. Now, it's 'buy the card, not the slab' where the buyer must evaluate the card, despite the grade, since the grade can barely be trusted anymore.
Buying a slab can be dubious now as well. Youtube guys like Kurts card care and Slab Rehab have shown time and time again that their restored cards are getting slabbed. And it seems the sentiment, at least from modern collectors, is that restoring cards is an acceptable practice.
My guess is that as grading gets more and more expensive, exclusionary and questionable (in terms of standards) that more and more folks will be OK with restored cards in slabs. Lots of things will be more acceptable as it gets harder/more expensive to obtain shorter supplies of things by more people.
I feel like the amount of cards graded on a monthly/yearly basis has to decrease. Because clearly at a certain price point, it cant be done. Grading feels expensive now, its certainly more expensive than it used to be, but its not expensive enough to keep 15 million cards from coming through their doors. And clearly the folks that stopped doing Doordash and Uber to become PSA graders have degraded the overall product/service substantially. So I think the only path to keep PSA from dealing with another 15 to 30 to 45 million cards next year is substantially raise prices.
Then people check out fully or partially. 15 to 20 years ago, I used to feel like grading was too expensive to justify sending in a lot of cards in a year, even when it was a lot cheaper. I think its a situation where the price of grading has increased but the value of cards you can pull from a pack that was produced in the last 3 years has gone up a lot more than that per card grading fee. It used to feel like you had to buy a box from BBCE that was 25 years old to maybe pull anything worth submitting at a $10 $12 per card fee.
Now you have maybe 800 people every day busting new Pokemon boxes and streaming it. Then a ton of others opening who just dont have an audience. So PSA probably needs to do something to keep that from being something that makes so much sense. Maybe some folks need to open some boxes and then feel like it was a fail and decide hey that was expensive and I missed. Maybe I should not spend 2 hours every day on Youtube opening packs. Let me save up some money and decide if it makes sense to buy more boxes and packs then.
I think you just need to have more people say out of all those packs and boxes I opened only 1 or 2 is worth a $50 fee. Then Pokemon can stop printing 10 million boxes of every new series. Then maybe all the Doordash folks can go back to delivering food and people who spend $50 on getting one card graded can feel that the grade received is a little more true to the established standards.
^ I wish that what you wrote was offbase but its NOT.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
All this grading and not one person on this board shares a Pokémon pick up. Who and where are they. Probably flying around in there jet right now. Pokémon!!! When will you learn grading doesn’t make you better it actually make s you worse!
My prediction is grading will
Slow when the cost to grade 1 card is 2x the cost of 1 box of cards. Why not right?
I recently sent a bunch of my PSA 9's from the late 70's to Greg Morris and I received at least double of what I paid on every card. Every sale was much higher then recent comps. I purchased all of the cards within the last 18 months. If they were not graded I would have received a lot less. The final figure would not have been close. Having your cards graded by PSA is a must if one plans on selling them for the best possible profit.
If a guy is buying to hold for the long term than I guess buying and keeping your cards raw could make sense but IMO that would only be for a small group of collectors who are experts on grading and restoration.
My reply is honestly directed at those who complain about PSA redundantly while knowing the truth about their methods. I’ve no reservations about the importance of getting the most for your dollars spent on behalf of cards and building a nice stash. I’m doing the same thing as you. Buy cards, sell cards, make money. The methods may differ but the goal is exactly the same. Whether they’re graded or not. I used to sell graded cards by the thousands. These days I sell raw cards by the thousands. Same same.
Appreciate the response and what you said makes sense.
You're right on with this. To piggyback, my question would be, if Pokemon is indeed running the show at PSA and is where all the money and backlog both are coming from, why not raise only the TCG prices and lower/leave the sports cards prices? They're two different markets that ebb and flow within the grading business. They'd still be capitalising on the Pokemon craze with raising those prices, while also eventually getting to a point of lower subs because financially it doesn't make sense. Plus, if they put effort back into sports cards subbing prices, it would drive that market up as well.
Good point. Let’s see what next year tells us. 230.00 bulk price? Slow down or it jumps to 699.00(just the cost of a nice luxury auto per month) Psa 5 chazy
@swish54 Great idea, hopefully PSA will segment the grading of Vintage sports cards from TCG such as Pokemon. Vintage Sports card grading was the CORE of the business and should NOT be abandoned!!
Pokémon live$ forever.
It's a version of high stakes gambling. People will always try to stretch a PSA 9 to a PSA 10.
I sent in plenty of 89 UD KGJ rookies before I hit my PSA 10. I wish I hadn't sold it.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
I spoke with a PSA representative at the National about this exact thing. PSA needs to recognize that the whole reason they are the leaders in TPG is because of the vintage collectors. The set registry idea was a brilliant concept and those who invested in that idea took PSA to a different level. Collectors took their hard-earned money and graded $1-10 commons for the hefty price of $6. At the time this was a great value. However, now the price is $25.00 to grade $1-10 commons all to have them misgrade/undergrade the card 50% of the time? Any legitimate business would separate the Pokemon/Disney cards from the vintage. Pricing is different because the market is different. Every country is opening up new cards and using PSA to grade it. PSA can't think vintage collectors will continue with this absorbent cost for their $20 cards. Or can they?
I agree with you completely regarding the set registry. It's kind of sad that PSA has effectively torpedoed the process of subbing even pack fresh mint commons because of the higher submission fees.
That said, the value of PSA 8, 9 and 10 common cards has risen significantly over the years and is likely to continue to do so as supply of freshly graded mint common cards is likely to continue dwindling due to lack of volume. I remember when you could purchase PSA 9 70s Topps commons for 10 bucks or less in many cases. These days, even the easier PSA 9s are commanding nice premiums with the low pop cards reaching almost stratospheric levels.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
If you glance at your rear view mirror, you can barely make out the images of vintage collectors waving a fond farewell. Providing for the set registry was the reason I even bothered to get cards graded and sold in the first place. Then it snowballed. In similar fashion, PSA's own snowball has now consumed everything else in its path. Vintage died in the avalanche. Kudos to those who managed to hang onto whatever they have now that they've become rather pricey cards, long ago cheap due to perception and 6 dollar grading.
Elmago is correct. Looks like SGC is the vintage (sports) grader right now either by design or by happen chance. They are grading about 2.5 million per year currently and are stockpiled also.
PSA CGC are on the POKEMON stuff, BECKETT newer sports stuff. 1998 and up
So it looks like the following
PSA mainly Pokemon Magic etc
CGC same as above
SGC all sports cards including vintage
BEckett all sports cards mainly from 1998 and up. (not sure about pokemon)
TAG - no clue I assume Pokemon
^ and CU cut SGC staff down to almost nothing. The ones left probably are taking out their frustrations on the submitters as there is no one else they can do that to...
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
PSA included a sticker with my order, what's the sticker for?
It appears to be a cert number for a card that isnt mine
Llamas and alpacas are camels. They aren't like camels, or related. They are camels. When was anyone going to tell me this?! How long had Bill Nye been holding out on us?
Submission number sticker they put on the outside box ? or the lable on the boxes with cards. Not for a card or case I think
someones sub box may never have received the sticker and they could now be "lost".
Hoping that not the case but with greater volume comes greater errors and historically PSA is CCM (now CCMI) Level 0
P.S. Yeah I know there is no Level 0 but IMHO they need improvement to reach Level 1
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
The number was not my submission number or account number or customer. It is a cert number for a Carmelo Anthony card with may just have sold on ebay by PSA. I think this was included with my order by mistake
Llamas and alpacas are camels. They aren't like camels, or related. They are camels. When was anyone going to tell me this?! How long had Bill Nye been holding out on us?
I think that is looking at the back side of the new slab label inserts. One of the security improvements to prevent the labels from being taken out and reused they will now stick to the slab. Is the number the same on both sides of the label? ie. if you peel it back a bit.
Could also just be the luck any number matches a cards . Ill just type 8 randoms numbers right now and see if it s a PSA card. Eyes closed!
28953561
Now lets see. I have no clue. As what anything is here.
Wow I got a POKEMON Card go figure.
2017 POKEMON JAPANESE SUN & MOON STRENGTH EXPANSION PACK SHINING LEGENDS #028 SHNG.VOLCANION-HOLO S.E.P. SHINING LEGENDS PSA 10
1 voucher for my Customer service effort please.
Fine. It's free! It's just cards.
Oh. That's my lottery combo. I just won a billion dollars.
No you won a psa 10 Pokémon card. Thanks for playing.