@Ballmrb said:
Ah man I hope that comment with your questions was a joke. You know that AI is not make believe right? What it does is gathers all the known information that is available form resource such as the DICTIONARY and then composes it into an easy to (for some) explanation based on actual facts . Not in every situation but I am willing to bet it can handle a simple definition of a word like experiment which is universal for any industry when you fare trying a new process to create something new . I did not use AI for that I learned that in 3rd grade And if other readers in this thread call out that AI response as questionable we have a completely different issue to discuss. Like the intelligence of humanity moving forward. You know AI is not a person right ? It’s a brain 1000 times smarter than you and I that can store documented facts that have been hence documented as real such as the dictionary. Thats a giant book with the definition of words. I believe it might have been an experiment at one point
Actually, that's not what an LLM does, at least not in total. When you're done researching SMS coins, you can research LLMs.
Someone other than @jmlanzaf is very confused about reality.
@Ballmrb said:
Yes a Large language Model as you researched it and thought I could not crack your LLM code. But the dictionary sgtays the same for the word experimental. Try to follow along with the smart people
Lmao
There was no code. If I thought you wouldn't know what an LLM is, I wouldn't have used the acronym.
I am following the smart people, and we all disagree with you.
We mostly accept that SMS coins exist for 1964. Mostly. But no one thinks yours is one for all the reasons laid out.
Trolling us is getting in the way of you filling out your PCGS submission form.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@Ballmrb said:
Ah man I hope that comment with your questions was a joke. You know that AI is not make believe right? What it does is gathers all the known information that is available form resource such as the DICTIONARY and then composes it into an easy to (for some) explanation based on actual facts . Not in every situation but I am willing to bet it can handle a simple definition of a word like experiment which is universal for any industry when you fare trying a new process to create something new . I did not use AI for that I learned that in 3rd grade And if other readers in this thread call out that AI response as questionable we have a completely different issue to discuss. Like the intelligence of humanity moving forward. You know AI is not a person right ? It’s a brain 1000 times smarter than you and I that can store documented facts that have been hence documented as real such as the dictionary. Thats a giant book with the definition of words. I believe it might have been an experiment at one point
Actually, that's not what an LLM does, at least not in total. When you're done researching SMS coins, you can research LLMs.
Someone other than @jmlanzaf is very confused about reality.
That's because I haven't started drinking...YET.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
No it’s already submitted And all of you with no knowledge of an SMS coin . Look up stupid ink the dictionary or ask AI it might help you in the future
@Ballmrb said:
No it’s already submitted And all of you with no knowledge of an SMS coin . Look up stupid ink the dictionary or ask AI it might help you in the future
Even Lincoln sitting in the middle of the Lincoln monument is telling you, "Naw, bro. I'm just a regular commercial UNC Lincoln cent".
Even if you want to pay no-neither-mind to the folks here, you just gotta listen to Lincoln.
Lincoln even admitted to chopping down a cherry tree. He won't lead you wrong.
Even Lincoln sitting in the middle of the Lincoln monument is telling you, "Naw, bro. I'm just a regular commercial UNC Lincoln cent".
Even if you want to pay no-neither-mind to the folks here, you just gotta listen to Lincoln.
Lincoln even admitted to chopping down a cherry tree. He won't lead you wrong.
I think you mean Washington.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Even Lincoln sitting in the middle of the Lincoln monument is telling you, "Naw, bro. I'm just a regular commercial UNC Lincoln cent".
Even if you want to pay no-neither-mind to the folks here, you just gotta listen to Lincoln.
Lincoln even admitted to chopping down a cherry tree. He won't lead you wrong.
@rooksmith said:
Well, I learned a few things from this thread.
1. I used to think that 1964 had no SMSs. (not so) There are coins that are called SMSs, minted before the mint started making Special Mint Sets! So the 1964 (five known examples?) of 1964 SMS are really first strikes, and were never intended for circulation.
2. Like a True Scotsman, there are none, but there are a lot of close relatives
3. For every coin there are a dozen opinions
There are a lot more than 5 1964 SMS coins, with the different denominations having different populations. That information can be found on the PCGS population report.
Weren’t these unknown until found in Adams’ safe after her death in 1991?
@rooksmith said:
Well, I learned a few things from this thread.
1. I used to think that 1964 had no SMSs. (not so) There are coins that are called SMSs, minted before the mint started making Special Mint Sets! So the 1964 (five known examples?) of 1964 SMS are really first strikes, and were never intended for circulation.
2. Like a True Scotsman, there are none, but there are a lot of close relatives
3. For every coin there are a dozen opinions
There are a lot more than 5 1964 SMS coins, with the different denominations having different populations. That information can be found on the PCGS population report.
Weren’t these unknown until found in Adams’ safe after her death in 1991?
See Flying Al's article. Not exactly.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@rooksmith said:
Well, I learned a few things from this thread.
1. I used to think that 1964 had no SMSs. (not so) There are coins that are called SMSs, minted before the mint started making Special Mint Sets! So the 1964 (five known examples?) of 1964 SMS are really first strikes, and were never intended for circulation.
2. Like a True Scotsman, there are none, but there are a lot of close relatives
3. For every coin there are a dozen opinions
There are a lot more than 5 1964 SMS coins, with the different denominations having different populations. That information can be found on the PCGS population report.
Weren’t these unknown until found in Adams’ safe after her death in 1991?
I don’t think so, as, while I don’t know it for a fact, I believe, that many of the coins were consigned to Stack’s by Lester Merkin’s widow. I’ve never heard that the coins were found in Eva Adams’ safe.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@rooksmith said:
Well, I learned a few things from this thread.
1. I used to think that 1964 had no SMSs. (not so) There are coins that are called SMSs, minted before the mint started making Special Mint Sets! So the 1964 (five known examples?) of 1964 SMS are really first strikes, and were never intended for circulation.
2. Like a True Scotsman, there are none, but there are a lot of close relatives
3. For every coin there are a dozen opinions
There are a lot more than 5 1964 SMS coins, with the different denominations having different populations. That information can be found on the PCGS population report.
Weren’t these unknown until found in Adams’ safe after her death in 1991?
I don’t think so, as, while I don’t know it for a fact, I believe, that many of the coins were consigned to Stack’s by Lester Merkin’s widow. I’ve never heard that the coins were found in Eva Adams’ safe.
The first set was sold May 2nd, 1990, over a year before Adams would die in 1991.
@rooksmith said:
Well, I learned a few things from this thread.
1. I used to think that 1964 had no SMSs. (not so) There are coins that are called SMSs, minted before the mint started making Special Mint Sets! So the 1964 (five known examples?) of 1964 SMS are really first strikes, and were never intended for circulation.
2. Like a True Scotsman, there are none, but there are a lot of close relatives
3. For every coin there are a dozen opinions
There are a lot more than 5 1964 SMS coins, with the different denominations having different populations. That information can be found on the PCGS population report.
Weren’t these unknown until found in Adams’ safe after her death in 1991?
I don’t think so, as, while I don’t know it for a fact, I believe, that many of the coins were consigned to Stack’s by Lester Merkin’s widow. I’ve never heard that the coins were found in Eva Adams’ safe.
The first set was sold May 2nd, 1990, over a year before Adams would die in 1991.
So the CoinWeek article published Sept. 2025 was wrong?
@rooksmith said:
Well, I learned a few things from this thread.
1. I used to think that 1964 had no SMSs. (not so) There are coins that are called SMSs, minted before the mint started making Special Mint Sets! So the 1964 (five known examples?) of 1964 SMS are really first strikes, and were never intended for circulation.
2. Like a True Scotsman, there are none, but there are a lot of close relatives
3. For every coin there are a dozen opinions
There are a lot more than 5 1964 SMS coins, with the different denominations having different populations. That information can be found on the PCGS population report.
Weren’t these unknown until found in Adams’ safe after her death in 1991?
I don’t think so, as, while I don’t know it for a fact, I believe, that many of the coins were consigned to Stack’s by Lester Merkin’s widow. I’ve never heard that the coins were found in Eva Adams’ safe.
The first set was sold May 2nd, 1990, over a year before Adams would die in 1991.
@rooksmith said:
Well, I learned a few things from this thread.
1. I used to think that 1964 had no SMSs. (not so) There are coins that are called SMSs, minted before the mint started making Special Mint Sets! So the 1964 (five known examples?) of 1964 SMS are really first strikes, and were never intended for circulation.
2. Like a True Scotsman, there are none, but there are a lot of close relatives
3. For every coin there are a dozen opinions
There are a lot more than 5 1964 SMS coins, with the different denominations having different populations. That information can be found on the PCGS population report.
Weren’t these unknown until found in Adams’ safe after her death in 1991?
I don’t think so, as, while I don’t know it for a fact, I believe, that many of the coins were consigned to Stack’s by Lester Merkin’s widow. I’ve never heard that the coins were found in Eva Adams’ safe.
The first set was sold May 2nd, 1990, over a year before Adams would die in 1991.
@rooksmith said:
Well, I learned a few things from this thread.
1. I used to think that 1964 had no SMSs. (not so) There are coins that are called SMSs, minted before the mint started making Special Mint Sets! So the 1964 (five known examples?) of 1964 SMS are really first strikes, and were never intended for circulation.
2. Like a True Scotsman, there are none, but there are a lot of close relatives
3. For every coin there are a dozen opinions
There are a lot more than 5 1964 SMS coins, with the different denominations having different populations. That information can be found on the PCGS population report.
Weren’t these unknown until found in Adams’ safe after her death in 1991?
I don’t think so, as, while I don’t know it for a fact, I believe, that many of the coins were consigned to Stack’s by Lester Merkin’s widow. I’ve never heard that the coins were found in Eva Adams’ safe.
The first set was sold May 2nd, 1990, over a year before Adams would die in 1991.
Where were these sold?
Correct to your first question and Stacks.
Stacks says the first appearance was at a Stacks auction in June 1991, which was before Eva Adams death in August.
591 1964‘P’ Cent through Half Dollar. Choice Brilliant Uncirculated. Nearly all show evidence of die refinishing at the Mint. The 1c is red gold with planchet striations on the obverse, the reverse fully struck up. The 5c has pastel iridescence and a mirror rim like a 1941 coin. The 10c has light russet toning on a satiny surface with faint striations. The 25c has normal lustre under gold toning. The 50c has a fully satiny obverse and a somewhat reflective reverse. The strike on all the coins is far sharper than is seen even on the Special Mint Sets. We suspect that these were struck as an experiment to determine the sort of finish the Mint would use from 1965 to 1967. 5 pieces.
"
@rooksmith said:
Well, I learned a few things from this thread.
1. I used to think that 1964 had no SMSs. (not so) There are coins that are called SMSs, minted before the mint started making Special Mint Sets! So the 1964 (five known examples?) of 1964 SMS are really first strikes, and were never intended for circulation.
2. Like a True Scotsman, there are none, but there are a lot of close relatives
3. For every coin there are a dozen opinions
There are a lot more than 5 1964 SMS coins, with the different denominations having different populations. That information can be found on the PCGS population report.
Weren’t these unknown until found in Adams’ safe after her death in 1991?
I don’t think so, as, while I don’t know it for a fact, I believe, that many of the coins were consigned to Stack’s by Lester Merkin’s widow. I’ve never heard that the coins were found in Eva Adams’ safe.
The first set was sold May 2nd, 1990, over a year before Adams would die in 1991.
So the CoinWeek article published Sept. 2025 was wrong?
Edited to correct source from CoinWorld to CoinWeek
That article sure has the appearance of AI slop. That was well after FlyingAl's article published in late 2024 which it appears the CoinWeek "author" did not have access to. It seems to present opinions and lore scraped from the internet as fact without supporting evidence.
I think FlyingAl could better elaborate on more of its problems if he chooses.
As far as when the coins first appeared on the market, here is one list of Stack's auction appearances in my February 12, 2024 post from this thread that presented various arguments before and after FlyingAl's article came out in late 2024.
.
.
Origins of the 1964 "SMS" Coins (Info Now Published in Nov. 2024 The Numismatist)
@rooksmith said:
Well, I learned a few things from this thread.
1. I used to think that 1964 had no SMSs. (not so) There are coins that are called SMSs, minted before the mint started making Special Mint Sets! So the 1964 (five known examples?) of 1964 SMS are really first strikes, and were never intended for circulation.
2. Like a True Scotsman, there are none, but there are a lot of close relatives
3. For every coin there are a dozen opinions
There are a lot more than 5 1964 SMS coins, with the different denominations having different populations. That information can be found on the PCGS population report.
Weren’t these unknown until found in Adams’ safe after her death in 1991?
I don’t think so, as, while I don’t know it for a fact, I believe, that many of the coins were consigned to Stack’s by Lester Merkin’s widow. I’ve never heard that the coins were found in Eva Adams’ safe.
The first set was sold May 2nd, 1990, over a year before Adams would die in 1991.
Where were these sold?
Correct to your first question and Stacks.
Stacks says the first appearance was at a Stacks auction in June 1991, which was before Eva Adams death in August.
@IkesT posted lot 1352, which was auctioned on May 2nd, 1990. I don’t know why Stacks doesn’t know what coins they auctioned, but they did sell that set.
I don’t know why Stacks doesn’t know what coins they auctioned, but they did sell that set.
Must be more “AI slop.”
The Stacks source doesn't read like AI, but I could be wrong.
I'd imagine they just never kept records of the coins because they became famous after they sold. It very well could have been a teenage intern having fun with a description that made up this whole story.
It’s not more AI crap it’s the real coin. To all you self proclaimed geniuses here is why they made the SMS coin In 1864 the last portrait of Lincoln was done in a satin finish because he thought it made his features less prominent as he was not the most attractive man and he thought it would it would make him a more approachable figure to citizens. If nobody agrees with the fact that Lincoln’s head is made up of many different caricatures of animals as he was a huge animal advocate. He had dogs, cats, goats, ducks and was the first president to pardon a turkey from death that his sons were going to kill and it became a pet. He was against being gifted elephants to use for any form of labor and in fact the elephant became the symbol for the Republican Party which he was the first president elected as such. They used to make pictures of Lincoln in the newspapers depicted as a giraffe because of his lanky stature which is also on the coins. You will see the number 3 all over the coins as he was known for creating his Rule of 3 and also grant who took office after his assassination was considering trying to run for a 3rd term which concerned the party as they saw he was going to create a dictatorship and why til this day 2 terms is the max. i have attached a picture that was used post his death that began with Lincoln and the elephant and was used extensively for the Republican Party in newspapers for the GOP votes. As you will notice what looks like the entire poster is covered in die scratches to give it the needed effect. That poster in similar detail but obviously limited to space and ability to have it on a coin is the in the hair of the 1964 penny . Stare at his hair long enough and like one of those pictures that you make your eyes go out of focus to see the images.
Comments
If this is a business strike then I will have the highest graded 1964 Lincoln cent
Someone other than @jmlanzaf is very confused about reality.
Lmao
There was no code. If I thought you wouldn't know what an LLM is, I wouldn't have used the acronym.
I am following the smart people, and we all disagree with you.
We mostly accept that SMS coins exist for 1964. Mostly. But no one thinks yours is one for all the reasons laid out.
Trolling us is getting in the way of you filling out your PCGS submission form.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
That's because I haven't started drinking...YET.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
No it’s already submitted And all of you with no knowledge of an SMS coin . Look up stupid ink the dictionary or ask AI it might help you in the future
You might take a grading course while you're waiting for your coin to come back from PCGS. That's nowhere near the first known.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Grading or attribution. That is also in the Dictionary
Less talkie; more fillie.
Even Lincoln sitting in the middle of the Lincoln monument is telling you, "Naw, bro. I'm just a regular commercial UNC Lincoln cent".
Even if you want to pay no-neither-mind to the folks here, you just gotta listen to Lincoln.
Lincoln even admitted to chopping down a cherry tree. He won't lead you wrong.
Grading.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I think you mean Washington.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Whooooosh
Weren’t these unknown until found in Adams’ safe after her death in 1991?
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
See Flying Al's article. Not exactly.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I don’t think so, as, while I don’t know it for a fact, I believe, that many of the coins were consigned to Stack’s by Lester Merkin’s widow. I’ve never heard that the coins were found in Eva Adams’ safe.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The first set was sold May 2nd, 1990, over a year before Adams would die in 1991.
Coin Photography
So the CoinWeek article published Sept. 2025 was wrong?
https://coinweek.com/the-mints-enigmatic-1964-special-mint-set-coins/
Edited to correct source from CoinWorld to CoinWeek
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
Where were these sold?
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
Correct to your first question and Stacks.
Coin Photography
Stacks says the first appearance was at a Stacks auction in June 1991, which was before Eva Adams death in August.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
"
AN UNUSUAL 1964‘P’ SET
591 1964‘P’ Cent through Half Dollar. Choice Brilliant Uncirculated. Nearly all show evidence of die refinishing at the Mint. The 1c is red gold with planchet striations on the obverse, the reverse fully struck up. The 5c has pastel iridescence and a mirror rim like a 1941 coin. The 10c has light russet toning on a satiny surface with faint striations. The 25c has normal lustre under gold toning. The 50c has a fully satiny obverse and a somewhat reflective reverse. The strike on all the coins is far sharper than is seen even on the Special Mint Sets. We suspect that these were struck as an experiment to determine the sort of finish the Mint would use from 1965 to 1967. 5 pieces.
"
Stack's 6/19/1991 catalog image via NNP
5/2/1990 appearance:
https://archive.org/details/unitedstatesgold1990stac/page/120/mode/2up
That article sure has the appearance of AI slop. That was well after FlyingAl's article published in late 2024 which it appears the CoinWeek "author" did not have access to. It seems to present opinions and lore scraped from the internet as fact without supporting evidence.
I think FlyingAl could better elaborate on more of its problems if he chooses.
As far as when the coins first appeared on the market, here is one list of Stack's auction appearances in my February 12, 2024 post from this thread that presented various arguments before and after FlyingAl's article came out in late 2024.
.
.
Origins of the 1964 "SMS" Coins (Info Now Published in Nov. 2024 The Numismatist)
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/13668445/#Comment_13668445
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
@IkesT posted lot 1352, which was auctioned on May 2nd, 1990. I don’t know why Stacks doesn’t know what coins they auctioned, but they did sell that set.
Coin Photography
You couldn’t get this kind of clarity on a business strike to shine. Zoom in and look at the art work
'
Must be more “AI slop.”
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
Ask AI if coins struck from brand new dies and specially made as specimens are typically loaded with thousands of very fine die polish scratches.
The Stacks source doesn't read like AI, but I could be wrong.
I'd imagine they just never kept records of the coins because they became famous after they sold. It very well could have been a teenage intern having fun with a description that made up this whole story.
Coin Photography
.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It’s not more AI crap it’s the real coin. To all you self proclaimed geniuses here is why they made the SMS coin In 1864 the last portrait of Lincoln was done in a satin finish because he thought it made his features less prominent as he was not the most attractive man and he thought it would it would make him a more approachable figure to citizens. If nobody agrees with the fact that Lincoln’s head is made up of many different caricatures of animals as he was a huge animal advocate. He had dogs, cats, goats, ducks and was the first president to pardon a turkey from death that his sons were going to kill and it became a pet. He was against being gifted elephants to use for any form of labor and in fact the elephant became the symbol for the Republican Party which he was the first president elected as such. They used to make pictures of Lincoln in the newspapers depicted as a giraffe because of his lanky stature which is also on the coins. You will see the number 3 all over the coins as he was known for creating his Rule of 3 and also grant who took office after his assassination was considering trying to run for a 3rd term which concerned the party as they saw he was going to create a dictatorship and why til this day 2 terms is the max. i have attached a picture that was used post his death that began with Lincoln and the elephant and was used extensively for the Republican Party in newspapers for the GOP votes. As you will notice what looks like the entire poster is covered in die scratches to give it the needed effect. That poster in similar detail but obviously limited to space and ability to have it on a coin is the in the hair of the 1964 penny . Stare at his hair long enough and like one of those pictures that you make your eyes go out of focus to see the images.
you weren't good at suckering people in about your pocket change and your attempt at trolling is terrible
Reading @Ballmrb makes me miss @emeraldATV.
That’s enough.