@MasonG said:
California has a $2000+ exemption. Ok.
Lots of collectors never spend anywhere near that amount on a purchase.
NY doesn't even have that. Yet the NY International is a premiere show and there are numerous local and regional shows, none of which have exemptions. And the Baltimore didn't have an exemption for a long time. It's not the show killer that someone is suggesting.
There's also a lot of sales tax fraud that goes on. I actually wish states would crack down on that. If there's going to be a sales tax, make sure it's enforced.
NY International is an international show. I'll bet no one is actually paying tax there.
I thought NY had a threshold exemption, but it turns out it's just for bullion. Maryland always had a threshold exemption, even before Whitman got the total exemption for the show.
It's a big enough deal that the ANA won't go anywhere where they don't get an exemption. So there's that.
And the best show in the country, FUN, has an exemption. So, yeah, I think it's a pretty big deal.
Lot of reasons DC might not fly. But, if it doesn't, you won't be able to tell me that sales taxes didn't play a part.
And if it does fly, can I tell you that sales tax wasn't a show stopper?
Yes, NY only has a bullion exemption. And Stacks and Heritage have nexus in NY, yet they also have NY buyers.
As I said, it's not ideal, but shows, including the Whitman show and the old Long Beach show succeeded despite having sales tax.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@MasonG said:
California has a $2000+ exemption. Ok.
Lots of collectors never spend anywhere near that amount on a purchase.
NY doesn't even have that. Yet the NY International is a premiere show and there are numerous local and regional shows, none of which have exemptions. And the Baltimore didn't have an exemption for a long time. It's not the show killer that someone is suggesting.
There's also a lot of sales tax fraud that goes on. I actually wish states would crack down on that. If there's going to be a sales tax, make sure it's enforced.
NY International is an international show. I'll bet no one is actually paying tax there.
I thought NY had a threshold exemption, but it turns out it's just for bullion. Maryland always had a threshold exemption, even before Whitman got the total exemption for the show.
It's a big enough deal that the ANA won't go anywhere where they don't get an exemption. So there's that.
And the best show in the country, FUN, has an exemption. So, yeah, I think it's a pretty big deal.
Lot of reasons DC might not fly. But, if it doesn't, you won't be able to tell me that sales taxes didn't play a part.
And if it does fly, can I tell you that sales tax wasn't a show stopper?
Yes, NY only has a bullion exemption. And Stacks and Heritage have nexus in NY, yet they also have NY buyers.
As I said, it's not ideal, but shows, including the Whitman show and the old Long Beach show succeeded despite having sales tax.
Absolutely!!!! No sure what SB buyers are doing, but I'll bet VERY few pay 8.875% on what they buy from Stacks. Maybe the folks buying Omega cents don't care, but most people do.
I can't speak to Long Beach, but I don't remember EVER paying tax in Baltimore, no matter how small the purchase. Other than maybe for accessories at Wizard.
@MasonG said:
California has a $2000+ exemption. Ok.
Lots of collectors never spend anywhere near that amount on a purchase.
NY doesn't even have that. Yet the NY International is a premiere show and there are numerous local and regional shows, none of which have exemptions. And the Baltimore didn't have an exemption for a long time. It's not the show killer that someone is suggesting.
There's also a lot of sales tax fraud that goes on. I actually wish states would crack down on that. If there's going to be a sales tax, make sure it's enforced.
NY International is an international show. I'll bet no one is actually paying tax there.
I thought NY had a threshold exemption, but it turns out it's just for bullion. Maryland always had a threshold exemption, even before Whitman got the total exemption for the show.
It's a big enough deal that the ANA won't go anywhere where they don't get an exemption. So there's that.
And the best show in the country, FUN, has an exemption. So, yeah, I think it's a pretty big deal.
Lot of reasons DC might not fly. But, if it doesn't, you won't be able to tell me that sales taxes didn't play a part.
And if it does fly, can I tell you that sales tax wasn't a show stopper?
Yes, NY only has a bullion exemption. And Stacks and Heritage have nexus in NY, yet they also have NY buyers.
As I said, it's not ideal, but shows, including the Whitman show and the old Long Beach show succeeded despite having sales tax.
Absolutely!!!! No sure what SB buyers are doing, but I'll bet VERY few pay 8.875% on what they buy from Stacks. Maybe the folks buying Omega cents don't care, but most people do.
I can't speak to Long Beach, but I don't remember EVER paying tax in Baltimore, no matter how small the purchase. Other than maybe for accessories at Wizard.
I looked it up. Whitman Expo has NO SPECIAL EXEMPTION. The state of Maryland has an exemption for $1000 and over purchases, much like NY. That exemption was repealed previously for the rest of the state but they exempted the convention center.
@MasonG said:
California has a $2000+ exemption. Ok.
Lots of collectors never spend anywhere near that amount on a purchase.
NY doesn't even have that. Yet the NY International is a premiere show and there are numerous local and regional shows, none of which have exemptions. And the Baltimore didn't have an exemption for a long time. It's not the show killer that someone is suggesting.
There's also a lot of sales tax fraud that goes on. I actually wish states would crack down on that. If there's going to be a sales tax, make sure it's enforced.
NY International is an international show. I'll bet no one is actually paying tax there.
I thought NY had a threshold exemption, but it turns out it's just for bullion. Maryland always had a threshold exemption, even before Whitman got the total exemption for the show.
It's a big enough deal that the ANA won't go anywhere where they don't get an exemption. So there's that.
And the best show in the country, FUN, has an exemption. So, yeah, I think it's a pretty big deal.
Lot of reasons DC might not fly. But, if it doesn't, you won't be able to tell me that sales taxes didn't play a part.
And if it does fly, can I tell you that sales tax wasn't a show stopper?
Yes, NY only has a bullion exemption. And Stacks and Heritage have nexus in NY, yet they also have NY buyers.
As I said, it's not ideal, but shows, including the Whitman show and the old Long Beach show succeeded despite having sales tax.
Absolutely!!!! No sure what SB buyers are doing, but I'll bet VERY few pay 8.875% on what they buy from Stacks. Maybe the folks buying Omega cents don't care, but most people do.
I can't speak to Long Beach, but I don't remember EVER paying tax in Baltimore, no matter how small the purchase. Other than maybe for accessories at Wizard.
I looked it up. Whitman Expo has NO SPECIAL EXEMPTION. The state of Maryland has an exemption for $1000 and over purchases, much like NY. That exemption was repealed previously for the rest of the state but they exempted the convention center.
[I can't find any evidence that sales under $1000 were ever exempt. Does anyone know?]
It's okay, but I won't do it. 😀
I misspoke when I said they had an exemption for sales under $1,000. What they DID have was an exemption for sales over $1,000 when the rest of the state lost it. I believe that has since been restored. But my point in the prior posts was that they fought hard for that exemption, an exemption they do not have in DC, and now they are acting like it's no big deal because they lost Baltimore and want to try DC.
I will, however, say you are right to the extent that compliance rates are low and no one cares. Otherwise, it IS a big deal. As I said, people who don't want to pay 2 cents to enter the show are not going to want to pay 5.75 cents on every dollar they spend at the show.
It's also a bit odd that they picked the one jurisdiction out of 5 in the surrounding area that does not have a sales tax exemption. So either it's something that matters to the industry or it is not.
I happen to think it does matter, and that the just grabbed DC because it was available, and now they are trying to sell it, downplaying something that has always been important in the past for no reason other than it does not fit their narrative. Not because it is no longer important. Because it was important enough for the industry to push to get it restored in Maryland when they lost it.
From the National Coin and Bullion Association, November 28, 2025:
"As of July 1, Maryland no longer exempts purchases of coins and bullion over $1,000 from state sales tax. The only exception is for transactions at coin shows held at the Baltimore Convention Center, which remain exempt. This change will likely lead to lost sales and customers choosing to buy elsewhere, putting pressure on local dealers and event organizers. Maryland businesses now face a disadvantage, as nearby states like Delaware, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and West Virginia still offer full exemptions.
We’re already preparing to push for new legislation in 2026 that will restore—and even expand—the exemption, removing the $1,000 threshold and including coins, paper money, and all bullion. The goal is to bring Maryland back in line with the 45 other states that currently provide these tax benefits."
What no one has brought up and John im sorry to be Debbie Downer but the biggest concern I have about the show is the weather…. You are hitting statistically the most unpredictable weather period along the east coast. It’s the heart of winter storm season.
For those in the know, these rumors started months ago and clearly had legs.
@MEJ7070 said:
I live an hour from the Baltimore convention center and about 20 minutes from DC convention center.
While I’ve got my Baltimore routine down pat and can often be slow to embrace change, I don’t think it will hurt the show one bit.
I get all the dealers and regulars have their Baltimore spots that they love frequenting……but DC honestly has a lot more to offer in terms of fine dining and nightlife.
Locally, I know of several other Northern Virginians who’d be much more likely to attend a show in DC than Baltimore due to traffic. That one hour trip to Baltimore can turn into 3 miserable hours at the drop of a hat.
And you're adding an hour onto the trip for everybody from Philly and NYC, which is undoubtedly millions more people than Northern Virginia. While I think this move becomes at least semi-permanent, I'm not a huge fan myself, but then again, I generally dislike change that isn't coins.
@PTVETTER said:
After reading this post I realized how good the PAN Show is! I only hope the PAN continues to grow.
Monroeville not-so-low-key sucks though. Most dealers can't wait to get out of there ASAP. Such a depressing place, the entire town feels like one giant strip mall that was built 40 years ago.
Take a serious look at the Greater Philadelphia Expo Center in Oaks, just outside King of Prussia.
>
Just my thoughts—from someone who has spent more than two decades helping organize and produce successful shows.
This is 100% where I would host it. Oaks outside of Philly. No union BS, easy accessibility, tons of parking and hotels and food, and shopping for the wives.
THANK YOU! Great suggestion. We have also been looking at King of Prussia. Definitely on the list of places we are considering. Baltimore is still the primary location but we are going to experiment a little in the next couple years while we work out best locations.
Please.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
@ScarsdaleCoin said:
What no one has brought up and John im sorry to be Debbie Downer but the biggest concern I have about the show is the weather…. You are hitting statistically the most unpredictable weather period along the east coast. It’s the heart of winter storm season.
Nice try, but no cigar. The weather in DC is substantially similar to Baltimore. 365 days a year, including all of February. If anything, it's a little further south, so maybe a degree or two warmer.
This is not a reason to shun DC. The sales tax is, given that DC does not accommodate like every other jurisdiction in the region does. @JohnF does think it will be a big deal, after lobbying hard to keep his MD exemption when everyone else in the state lost it. We'll see.
If it's not a big deal, then there is really no reason for any taxing jurisdiction to create a special carve out for coins or bullion, right? Try telling that to the National Coin and Bullion Association, or to any coin dealer operating in a state with a sales tax, but an exemption for their business. I think it's a bigger deal than @JohnF is letting on as he is trying to sell DC for his show.
@ScarsdaleCoin said:
What no one has brought up and John im sorry to be Debbie Downer but the biggest concern I have about the show is the weather…. You are hitting statistically the most unpredictable weather period along the east coast. It’s the heart of winter storm season.
Nice try, but no cigar. The weather in DC is substantially similar to Baltimore. 365 days a year, including all of February. If anything, it's a little further south, so maybe a degree or two warmer.
This is not a reason to shun DC. The sales tax is, given that DC does not accommodate like every other jurisdiction in the region does. @JohnF does think it will be a big deal, after lobbying hard to keep his MD exemption when everyone else in the state lost it. We'll see.
If it's not a big deal, then there is really no reason for any taxing jurisdiction to create a special carve out for coins or bullion, right? Try telling that to the National Coin and Bullion Association, or to any coin dealer operating in a state with a sales tax, but an exemption for their business. I think it's a bigger deal than @JohnF is letting on as he is trying to sell DC for his show.
Didn't they also move the show a month earlier?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@ScarsdaleCoin said:
What no one has brought up and John im sorry to be Debbie Downer but the biggest concern I have about the show is the weather…. You are hitting statistically the most unpredictable weather period along the east coast. It’s the heart of winter storm season.
Nice try, but no cigar. The weather in DC is substantially similar to Baltimore. 365 days a year, including all of February. If anything, it's a little further south, so maybe a degree or two warmer.
This is not a reason to shun DC. The sales tax is, given that DC does not accommodate like every other jurisdiction in the region does. @JohnF does think it will be a big deal, after lobbying hard to keep his MD exemption when everyone else in the state lost it. We'll see.
If it's not a big deal, then there is really no reason for any taxing jurisdiction to create a special carve out for coins or bullion, right? Try telling that to the National Coin and Bullion Association, or to any coin dealer operating in a state with a sales tax, but an exemption for their business. I think it's a bigger deal than @JohnF is letting on as he is trying to sell DC for his show.
Didn't they also move the show a month earlier?
I guess they did. I think we are all arguing the same thing for different reasons. We are a crusty old bunch that is resistant to change, although positive change is usually accepted.
No real reason for this show, in this place, at this time, other than Whitman apparently wants to maintain a cadence of 3 shows per year, and DC was available to them in February while Baltimore was not available to them in either February or March.
Bumping up against the ANA show in VA in March probably hurt them, and they probably should have just ceded the ground to them if they felt the conflict of two shows in the same general area in the same month was insurmountable, given that VA Beach is superior in pretty much every way to DC, and the ANA is generally superior to Whitman.
Otherwise, yes, you are correct, and I didn't consider the difference between March cherry blossoms and February snow. Probably accounts for why they could get February and not March. You get what you pay for.
I guess I owe @ScarsdaleCoin an apology. The risk of bad weather, plus sales tax, plus FUN, plus ANA, will likely keep the dealer table count a lot lower than early expressions of enthusiasm are leading Whitman to believe. Then again, the ANA runs shows in Colorado in March, so who knows?
@NJCoin said:
No real reason for this show, in this place, at this time, other than Whitman apparently wants to maintain a cadence of 3 shows per year, and DC was available to them in February while Baltimore was not available to them in either February or March.
@NJCoin said:
No real reason for this show, in this place, at this time, other than Whitman apparently wants to maintain a cadence of 3 shows per year, and DC was available to them in February while Baltimore was not available to them in either February or March.
@NJCoin said:
No real reason for this show, in this place, at this time, other than Whitman apparently wants to maintain a cadence of 3 shows per year, and DC was available to them in February while Baltimore was not available to them in either February or March.
@NJCoin said:
No real reason for this show, in this place, at this time, other than Whitman apparently wants to maintain a cadence of 3 shows per year, and DC was available to them in February while Baltimore was not available to them in either February or March.
Yes, sales tax is an issue. But not for everyone. Why not just give it a try and you can always say “I told you so.” later, if warranted.
Besides, Stacks is probably covering all or most of the costs because they are the main sponsor with lot viewing, etc.
Have you met NJCoin?
Never. But I usually agree with his ideas.
He’s pissed at the sales tax issue, and I get it. But unless we try new things, the hobby/industry won’t advance. This thinking also holds back the ANA. But look at the success of OKC.
I do think that Stacks is the reason it cannot be cancelled. They have a big Americana sale at that time every year.
@NJCoin said:
No real reason for this show, in this place, at this time, other than Whitman apparently wants to maintain a cadence of 3 shows per year, and DC was available to them in February while Baltimore was not available to them in either February or March.
Yes, sales tax is an issue. But not for everyone. Why not just give it a try and you can always say “I told you so.” later, if warranted.
Besides, Stacks is probably covering all or most of the costs because they are the main sponsor with lot viewing, etc.
Have you met NJCoin?
Never. But I usually agree with his ideas.
He’s pissed at the sales tax issue, and I get it. But unless we try new things, the hobby/industry won’t advance. This thinking also holds back the ANA. But look at the success of OKC.
I do think that Stacks is the reason it cannot be cancelled. They have a big Americana sale at that time every year.
Very true about OKC. I totally whiffed on that one.
On this one, I'm not so sure. But, as I said, let's wait and see.
Oaks, PA, is interesting, but it IS in the middle of nowhere. People might like it because it is inexpensive as compared to any city center, with the downside that it is not in a city center. Kind of like Rosemont, without the advantage of being on top of the airport. Downtown Philly would be ideal, if they can work things out with the unions.
Baltimore was a decent compromise. I'm shocked they are getting pushed out of there, given how so many people poop on the area around the convention center. It's clearly working for someone if the convention center doesn't even want Whitman.
@PTVETTER said:
After reading this post I realized how good the PAN Show is! I only hope the PAN continues to grow.
Monroeville not-so-low-key sucks though. Most dealers can't wait to get out of there ASAP. Such a depressing place, the entire town feels like one giant strip mall that was built 40 years ago.
I guess that is why it is always sold out with a waiting list. With lower expenses the dealers can't wait to leave with money in their pockets. I take it you will not be at the next PAN shows.
Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211
@PTVETTER said: @PTVETTER said:
After reading this post I realized how good the PAN Show is! I only hope the PAN continues to grow.
Monroeville not-so-low-key sucks though. Most dealers can't wait to get out of there ASAP. Such a depressing place, the entire town feels like one giant strip mall that was built 40 years ago.
I guess that is why it is always sold out with a waiting list. With lower expenses the dealers can't wait to leave with money in their pockets. I take it you will not be at the next PAN shows.
I go to every PAN show. That doesn't mean Monroeville doesn't suck. The whole town is dead by 8pm. There's gotta be a better place than that for PAN. PAN is a great and growing show in spite of being located in Monroeville. Plain and simple. If they moved it to Pittsburgh it would absolutely take off even more than it already has.
Highlights from reddit comment threads about Monroeville.
It's boring and the most culture you'll find out there will be an olive garden.
Monroeville is pretty depressing. Overall drab, lower middle class, lots of strip malls. It’s far enough from the city you probably won’t actually come to the city much to do things.
It’s dated for sure for sure...
Monroeville is exactly the sort of neighborhood you’d expect to find where housing is adjacent to a mile-long strip mall, which in turn takes you to the actual mall.
having grown up there I can tell you. It’s like someone’s memory of a town, and the memory’s fading.
Monroeville is one of the most depressing towns I’ve ever seen.
Monroeville would probably be the last place I'd move if I wanted to be close to everything good in Pgh.
Egh monroeville
I feel like Monroeville is the worst of both worlds. It’s far from anything and kind of a dump.
If chain restaurants and stores in strip malls are your thing, go for it.
Monroeville... I find it absolutely soul sucking.
The town has gone seriously downhill in the last 20 years
If you like strip malls, traffic and suburbia you made the right choice.
Monroeville isn't that bad. It's not that good, but it's not that bad.
its the 1985 version of strip mall hell.
Leave Monroeville and go have some fun in Pittsburgh
Those of us in the city can spend a decade without finding a reason to go to Monroeville.
Monroeville is boring af
it's a more run down strip mall mecca
If I was visiting I would not have Monroeville on my list of places to stay unless I had to be close to a conference at the convention center or something.
Monroeville is a like a suburban getto. Whoever told you that was a fun place to stay must not go outside.
Monroeville is western Pennsylvania’s older suburban hellscape
monroeville is something i only subject myself to in order to ge to india garden and guitar center.
endless chain restaurants, furniture stores and traffic
Monroeville really sucks.
I hate Monroeville.
Monroeville is to Pittsburgh, as what Staten Island is to New York
Everything but Sheetz and primantis is closed by 9
Enjoy seeing people deal drugs in the hotel parking lot
Monroeville is the armpit of Pittsburgh.
The highlight of my numerous trips to Monroeville was when a 50+ year old lady living on the... larger side of life attempted to pick up 35ish year old me at Primanti's.
I think you get the idea. I'm already dreading October.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
I go to every PAN show. That doesn't mean Monroeville doesn't suck. The whole town is dead by 8pm. There's gotta be a better place than that for PAN. PAN is a great and growing show in spite of being located in Monroeville. Plain and simple. If they moved it to Pittsburgh it would absolutely take off even more than it already has.
Sorry, having the PAN show in the suburbs is BETTER than having it in the city. As a collector, it's WAY easier then navigating the city. I am not going to the ANA show in Pittsburgh because it's too difficult to get around in the city, harder to park. I don't care about restaurants within walking distance of the show or hotel. The suburbs are way easier, just drive your car 5 minute to a restaurants with real parking. "The whole town is dead by 8pm", come on, is that why you go to a coin show? A show has to be EASY for collectors to get to, stay, park.
A show has to be EASY for collectors to get to, stay, park.
Maybe for you locals but that's why I love the ANA in Rosemont. Direct flights to O'Hare - complimentary shuttle from the airport to my hotel right across the street from the Convention Center. Can't get that in Pittsburgh.
@2ndCharter said: A show has to be EASY for collectors to get to, stay, park.
Maybe for you locals but that's why I love the ANA in Rosemont. Direct flights to O'Hare - complimentary shuttle from the airport to my hotel right across the street from the Convention Center. Can't get that in Pittsburgh.
I'm not local, just driving several hours to get to the show.
I go to every PAN show. That doesn't mean Monroeville doesn't suck. The whole town is dead by 8pm. There's gotta be a better place than that for PAN. PAN is a great and growing show in spite of being located in Monroeville. Plain and simple. If they moved it to Pittsburgh it would absolutely take off even more than it already has.
Sorry, having the PAN show in the suburbs is BETTER than having it in the city. As a collector, it's WAY easier then navigating the city. I am not going to the ANA show in Pittsburgh because it's too difficult to get around in the city, harder to park. I don't care about restaurants within walking distance of the show or hotel. The suburbs are way easier, just drive your car 5 minute to a restaurants with real parking. "The whole town is dead by 8pm", come on, is that why you go to a coin show? A show has to be EASY for collectors to get to, stay, park.
80% of the business at coin shows is wholesale. I determine a successful show based on selling to other dealers, not the public. Most dealers do.
I go to shows to do business between 8am and 6pm, and to go out and have a good time afterwards.The after-show life is a key part of the coin show experience from a dealers perspective, and it SUCKS in Monroeville.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
I go to every PAN show. That doesn't mean Monroeville doesn't suck. The whole town is dead by 8pm. There's gotta be a better place than that for PAN. PAN is a great and growing show in spite of being located in Monroeville. Plain and simple. If they moved it to Pittsburgh it would absolutely take off even more than it already has.
Sorry, having the PAN show in the suburbs is BETTER than having it in the city. As a collector, it's WAY easier then navigating the city. I am not going to the ANA show in Pittsburgh because it's too difficult to get around in the city, harder to park. I don't care about restaurants within walking distance of the show or hotel. The suburbs are way easier, just drive your car 5 minute to a restaurants with real parking. "The whole town is dead by 8pm", come on, is that why you go to a coin show? A show has to be EASY for collectors to get to, stay, park.
80% of the business at coin shows is wholesale. I determine a successful show based on selling to other dealers, not the public. Most dealers do.
I go to shows to do business between 8am and 6pm, and to go out and have a good time afterwards.The after-show life is a key part of the coin show experience from a dealers perspective, and it SUCKS in Monroeville.
I heard Monroeville has the best Denny’s in Pennsylvania.
80% of the business at coin shows is wholesale. I determine a successful show based on selling to other dealers, not the public. Most dealers do.
I go to shows to do business between 8am and 6pm, and to go out and have a good time afterwards.The after-show life is a key part of the coin show experience from a dealers perspective, and it SUCKS in Monroeville.
Wow, I don't feel to welcome at shows anymore. Are us lowly collectors in the way?
@coinkat said:
Dealers and collectors basically need to be careful what they wish for. The Baltimore Show in Winter and Fall have been well attended. Most dealers seem to do well. Summer seems to be not as popular… not sure if it is that Baltimore heat and humidity and getting motivated to deal with it. Instead of changing Baltimore, how about reducing the shows in Baltimore to two shows with the third rotating between DC and Philadelphia? This would keep the I-95 corridor in play. And perhaps the timing could be adjusted somewhat to avoid the worst of the heat- possibly Early February followed by the third week in May and either the third week in October or first or second week of November?
I think there is risk in leaving Baltimore completely, but it might be worth a shot to add DC and Philly into the rotation.
Philly is great. There was never an issue with Philly, other than what is now confronting Whitman with Baltimore. It is a huge convention town, and Whitman is a tiny convention.
So it's hard to make the numbers work for Whitman. And then, the unions are HUGE PITA to deal with in Philly. They add costs that the dealers hate, hate, hate. If Whitman can work these things out, Philly would be a gazillion times more successful for everyone than Baltimore ever was.
As for DC, I'm waiting to see how people react to a 5.75% sales tax on all transactions. Is it going to be cash only, with the taxing authorities looking the other way? Because I'm pretty sure retail is going to otherwise balk at the surcharge.
Which will kill the show, unless dealers are willing to make the trip, a month after FUN, just to do a day of dealer to dealer transactions before going home. Which will still kill the show aside from the dealer day. Really not much of a show then, no?
Philly would be awesome! I'd love to see it there!
I think Charlotte would be a nice destination. Don’t know about their Union situation.
Another might be Roanoke Virginia:
As the signature meeting and event destination in Virginia’s Blue Ridge, The Hotel Roanoke & Conference Center blends historic charm with modern sophistication. Located in the heart of downtown Roanoke, our fully renovated property offers more than 63,000 square feet of flexible event space—including a stunning 14,400 sq. ft. grand ballroom and a dedicated conference center designed to accommodate everything from executive board meetings to large-scale conventions and elegant receptions.
Following the completion of a $14 million guestroom renovation, we are excited to announce an upcoming expansion that will add nearly 10,000 sq. ft. of additional indoor and outdoor conference and recreation space. This continued investment underscores our commitment to providing world-class amenities and exceptional service in one of the region’s most inspiring settings. It has a nearby airport. No Union, no taxes.
I used to work with this guy who had specific needs when it came to whether or not he wanted to join in when we went for lunch. Wherever it was, it had to be someplace close and easy to get to, with lots of parking. There needed to be a big selection on the menu, the food had to be good and relatively inexpensive. It was necessary to be able to get a seat right away, the service needed to be quick and there couldn't be a long wait to pay before leaving.
Listening to people describe what they expect from a show sounds a lot like that.
80% of the business at coin shows is wholesale. I determine a successful show based on selling to other dealers, not the public. Most dealers do.
I go to shows to do business between 8am and 6pm, and to go out and have a good time afterwards.The after-show life is a key part of the coin show experience from a dealers perspective, and it SUCKS in Monroeville.
Wow, I don't feel to welcome at shows anymore. Are us lowly collectors in the way?
He didn't say collectors were in the way, he said they were the smaller percentage of his total business at a show. Dealers pay their bills and put food on the table for themselves and their family through the business they do, why wouldn't they focus on the portion of that business that generates the majority of their income?
80% of the business at coin shows is wholesale. I determine a successful show based on selling to other dealers, not the public. Most dealers do.
I go to shows to do business between 8am and 6pm, and to go out and have a good time afterwards.The after-show life is a key part of the coin show experience from a dealers perspective, and it SUCKS in Monroeville.
Wow, I don't feel to welcome at shows anymore. Are us lowly collectors in the way?
Sometimes.
You are welcome. You just aren't the sole reason coin shows exist. Sorry.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@MasonG said:
I used to work with this guy who had specific needs when it came to whether or not he wanted to join in when we went for lunch. Wherever it was, it had to be someplace close and easy to get to, with lots of parking. There needed to be a big selection on the menu, the food had to be good and relatively inexpensive. It was necessary to be able to get a seat right away, the service needed to be quick and there couldn't be a long wait to pay before leaving.
Listening to people describe what they expect from a show sounds a lot like that.
Yeah, well you can't blame people for wanting everything. That said, those unwilling to compromise while holding out for perfection end up missing out on a lot of life.
80% of the business at coin shows is wholesale. I determine a successful show based on selling to other dealers, not the public. Most dealers do.
I go to shows to do business between 8am and 6pm, and to go out and have a good time afterwards.The after-show life is a key part of the coin show experience from a dealers perspective, and it SUCKS in Monroeville.
Wow, I don't feel to welcome at shows anymore. Are us lowly collectors in the way?
He didn't say collectors were in the way, he said they were the smaller percentage of his total business at a show. Dealers pay their bills and put food on the table for themselves and their family through the business they do, why wouldn't they focus on the portion of that business that generates the majority of their income?
Because, at the end of the day, what actually generates all of the industry's income is the margin on sales to the public. There is no industry at all if it's all just dealers selling back and forth to each other.
This is what people running shows like IMEX fail to take into account. At least until they focus so much on dealers that retail traffic is light, and the show ends up sucking.
Yes, wholesale is very important, which is why they have dealer days and early bird admissions. But, trust me, if you build it primarily for dealers and the public doesn't show up, the show ends up sucking for dealers.
Not saying that will happen with DC in February. But it might.
No one will be taking a family trip to DC in the middle of the week in the middle of winter. The amenities are very similar to Baltimore.
And then, the sales tax. We'll see. But most people jonesing for a show have FUN in January and VA Beach in March. No one except Whitman really needs DC in February.
@MasonG said:
He didn't say collectors were in the way, he said they were the smaller percentage of his total business at a show. Dealers pay their bills and put food on the table for themselves and their family through the business they do, why wouldn't they focus on the portion of that business that generates the majority of their income?
Because, at the end of the day, what actually generates all of the industry's income is the margin on sales to the public.
"Industry's income" is not dependent solely on business transacted at coin shows. @DelawareDoons says he gets inventory for sales to the public from other dealers at shows and I would presume (based on the percentages he noted) that a majority of his sales to the public tend to occur elsewhere. I have no reason to doubt his conclusions, it's his business and I expect he knows better how it works than anyone else.
@MasonG said:
He didn't say collectors were in the way, he said they were the smaller percentage of his total business at a show. Dealers pay their bills and put food on the table for themselves and their family through the business they do, why wouldn't they focus on the portion of that business that generates the majority of their income?
Because, at the end of the day, what actually generates all of the industry's income is the margin on sales to the public.
"Industry's income" is not dependent solely on business transacted at coin shows. @DelawareDoons says he gets inventory for sales to the public from other dealers at shows and I would presume (based on the percentages he noted) that a majority of his sales to the public tend to occur elsewhere. I have no reason to doubt his conclusions, it's his business and I expect he knows better how it works than anyone else.
Totally understand. And, it's true, a dealer who only goes to a show to sell to or buy from other dealers does not need to do business with the public, and does not care whether or not the public attends. In fact, many of them don't even take tables, and just walk the floor offering their wares or perusing other dealers' inventories. If everyone did that, though it would not be much of a show if no one was paying to be there.
But where is their inventory coming from in the first place? Again, everything begins and ends with the public. Poop on the public, and you don't have an industry. The Mint just learned a micro lesson in this with its $10-20K gold Liberty Bell coins that were not meant for a retail audience. Turns out no one else wanted them either, since they could not be profitably marketed to the public.
The shows that don't have robust public attendance are the shows that suck, even if they work for people using the gatherings exclusively to do wholesale business. Believe it or not.
If this were not the case, many more shows would be intimate dealer-only gatherings, like the PCGS Invitationals (even though I realize PCGS members were invited, there also wasn't much for them to see or do there), and the public would not even be invited. Hardly what a retail publisher like Whitman is going for with its shows.
Comments
And if it does fly, can I tell you that sales tax wasn't a show stopper?
Yes, NY only has a bullion exemption. And Stacks and Heritage have nexus in NY, yet they also have NY buyers.
As I said, it's not ideal, but shows, including the Whitman show and the old Long Beach show succeeded despite having sales tax.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Absolutely!!!! No sure what SB buyers are doing, but I'll bet VERY few pay 8.875% on what they buy from Stacks. Maybe the folks buying Omega cents don't care, but most people do.
I can't speak to Long Beach, but I don't remember EVER paying tax in Baltimore, no matter how small the purchase. Other than maybe for accessories at Wizard.
I looked it up. Whitman Expo has NO SPECIAL EXEMPTION. The state of Maryland has an exemption for $1000 and over purchases, much like NY. That exemption was repealed previously for the rest of the state but they exempted the convention center.
https://whitmanexpo.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/WE_Dealer_Booth_application_Summer26_V2.pdf
It's okay to say that I was right.
[I can't find any evidence that sales under $1000 were ever exempt. Does anyone know?]
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
It's okay, but I won't do it. 😀
I misspoke when I said they had an exemption for sales under $1,000. What they DID have was an exemption for sales over $1,000 when the rest of the state lost it. I believe that has since been restored. But my point in the prior posts was that they fought hard for that exemption, an exemption they do not have in DC, and now they are acting like it's no big deal because they lost Baltimore and want to try DC.
I will, however, say you are right to the extent that compliance rates are low and no one cares. Otherwise, it IS a big deal. As I said, people who don't want to pay 2 cents to enter the show are not going to want to pay 5.75 cents on every dollar they spend at the show.
It's also a bit odd that they picked the one jurisdiction out of 5 in the surrounding area that does not have a sales tax exemption. So either it's something that matters to the industry or it is not.
I happen to think it does matter, and that the just grabbed DC because it was available, and now they are trying to sell it, downplaying something that has always been important in the past for no reason other than it does not fit their narrative. Not because it is no longer important. Because it was important enough for the industry to push to get it restored in Maryland when they lost it.
From the National Coin and Bullion Association, November 28, 2025:
"As of July 1, Maryland no longer exempts purchases of coins and bullion over $1,000 from state sales tax. The only exception is for transactions at coin shows held at the Baltimore Convention Center, which remain exempt. This change will likely lead to lost sales and customers choosing to buy elsewhere, putting pressure on local dealers and event organizers. Maryland businesses now face a disadvantage, as nearby states like Delaware, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and West Virginia still offer full exemptions.
We’re already preparing to push for new legislation in 2026 that will restore—and even expand—the exemption, removing the $1,000 threshold and including coins, paper money, and all bullion. The goal is to bring Maryland back in line with the 45 other states that currently provide these tax benefits."
What no one has brought up and John im sorry to be Debbie Downer but the biggest concern I have about the show is the weather…. You are hitting statistically the most unpredictable weather period along the east coast. It’s the heart of winter storm season.
For those in the know, these rumors started months ago and clearly had legs.
And you're adding an hour onto the trip for everybody from Philly and NYC, which is undoubtedly millions more people than Northern Virginia. While I think this move becomes at least semi-permanent, I'm not a huge fan myself, but then again, I generally dislike change that isn't coins.
Monroeville not-so-low-key sucks though. Most dealers can't wait to get out of there ASAP. Such a depressing place, the entire town feels like one giant strip mall that was built 40 years ago.
>
This is 100% where I would host it. Oaks outside of Philly. No union BS, easy accessibility, tons of parking and hotels and food, and shopping for the wives.
Please.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Nice try, but no cigar. The weather in DC is substantially similar to Baltimore. 365 days a year, including all of February. If anything, it's a little further south, so maybe a degree or two warmer.
This is not a reason to shun DC. The sales tax is, given that DC does not accommodate like every other jurisdiction in the region does. @JohnF does think it will be a big deal, after lobbying hard to keep his MD exemption when everyone else in the state lost it. We'll see.
If it's not a big deal, then there is really no reason for any taxing jurisdiction to create a special carve out for coins or bullion, right? Try telling that to the National Coin and Bullion Association, or to any coin dealer operating in a state with a sales tax, but an exemption for their business. I think it's a bigger deal than @JohnF is letting on as he is trying to sell DC for his show.
Didn't they also move the show a month earlier?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I guess they did. I think we are all arguing the same thing for different reasons. We are a crusty old bunch that is resistant to change, although positive change is usually accepted.
No real reason for this show, in this place, at this time, other than Whitman apparently wants to maintain a cadence of 3 shows per year, and DC was available to them in February while Baltimore was not available to them in either February or March.
Bumping up against the ANA show in VA in March probably hurt them, and they probably should have just ceded the ground to them if they felt the conflict of two shows in the same general area in the same month was insurmountable, given that VA Beach is superior in pretty much every way to DC, and the ANA is generally superior to Whitman.
Otherwise, yes, you are correct, and I didn't consider the difference between March cherry blossoms and February snow. Probably accounts for why they could get February and not March. You get what you pay for.
I guess I owe @ScarsdaleCoin an apology. The risk of bad weather, plus sales tax, plus FUN, plus ANA, will likely keep the dealer table count a lot lower than early expressions of enthusiasm are leading Whitman to believe. Then again, the ANA runs shows in Colorado in March, so who knows?
@NJCoin I think you need to let it go.
Yes, sales tax is an issue. But not for everyone. Why not just give it a try and you can always say “I told you so.” later, if warranted.
Besides, Stacks is probably covering all or most of the costs because they are the main sponsor with lot viewing, etc.
Have you met NJCoin?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I will let it go for now. It's happening, so let's just see how it goes.
Never. But I usually agree with his ideas.
He’s pissed at the sales tax issue, and I get it. But unless we try new things, the hobby/industry won’t advance. This thinking also holds back the ANA. But look at the success of OKC.
I do think that Stacks is the reason it cannot be cancelled. They have a big Americana sale at that time every year.
Very true about OKC. I totally whiffed on that one.
On this one, I'm not so sure. But, as I said, let's wait and see.
Oaks, PA, is interesting, but it IS in the middle of nowhere. People might like it because it is inexpensive as compared to any city center, with the downside that it is not in a city center. Kind of like Rosemont, without the advantage of being on top of the airport. Downtown Philly would be ideal, if they can work things out with the unions.
Baltimore was a decent compromise. I'm shocked they are getting pushed out of there, given how so many people poop on the area around the convention center. It's clearly working for someone if the convention center doesn't even want Whitman.
@PTVETTER said:
After reading this post I realized how good the PAN Show is! I only hope the PAN continues to grow.
Monroeville not-so-low-key sucks though. Most dealers can't wait to get out of there ASAP. Such a depressing place, the entire town feels like one giant strip mall that was built 40 years ago.
I guess that is why it is always sold out with a waiting list. With lower expenses the dealers can't wait to leave with money in their pockets. I take it you will not be at the next PAN shows.
I go to every PAN show. That doesn't mean Monroeville doesn't suck. The whole town is dead by 8pm. There's gotta be a better place than that for PAN. PAN is a great and growing show in spite of being located in Monroeville. Plain and simple. If they moved it to Pittsburgh it would absolutely take off even more than it already has.
Highlights from reddit comment threads about Monroeville.
The highlight of my numerous trips to Monroeville was when a 50+ year old lady living on the... larger side of life attempted to pick up 35ish year old me at Primanti's.
I think you get the idea. I'm already dreading October.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Sorry, having the PAN show in the suburbs is BETTER than having it in the city. As a collector, it's WAY easier then navigating the city. I am not going to the ANA show in Pittsburgh because it's too difficult to get around in the city, harder to park. I don't care about restaurants within walking distance of the show or hotel. The suburbs are way easier, just drive your car 5 minute to a restaurants with real parking. "The whole town is dead by 8pm", come on, is that why you go to a coin show? A show has to be EASY for collectors to get to, stay, park.
A show has to be EASY for collectors to get to, stay, park.
Maybe for you locals but that's why I love the ANA in Rosemont. Direct flights to O'Hare - complimentary shuttle from the airport to my hotel right across the street from the Convention Center. Can't get that in Pittsburgh.
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
I'm not local, just driving several hours to get to the show.
Mon> @Russell12 said:
80% of the business at coin shows is wholesale. I determine a successful show based on selling to other dealers, not the public. Most dealers do.
I go to shows to do business between 8am and 6pm, and to go out and have a good time afterwards.The after-show life is a key part of the coin show experience from a dealers perspective, and it SUCKS in Monroeville.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
I heard Monroeville has the best Denny’s in Pennsylvania.
>
Wow, I don't feel to welcome at shows anymore. Are us lowly collectors in the way?
Philly would be awesome! I'd love to see it there!
I think Charlotte would be a nice destination. Don’t know about their Union situation.
Another might be Roanoke Virginia:
As the signature meeting and event destination in Virginia’s Blue Ridge, The Hotel Roanoke & Conference Center blends historic charm with modern sophistication. Located in the heart of downtown Roanoke, our fully renovated property offers more than 63,000 square feet of flexible event space—including a stunning 14,400 sq. ft. grand ballroom and a dedicated conference center designed to accommodate everything from executive board meetings to large-scale conventions and elegant receptions.
Following the completion of a $14 million guestroom renovation, we are excited to announce an upcoming expansion that will add nearly 10,000 sq. ft. of additional indoor and outdoor conference and recreation space. This continued investment underscores our commitment to providing world-class amenities and exceptional service in one of the region’s most inspiring settings. It has a nearby airport. No Union, no taxes.
I used to work with this guy who had specific needs when it came to whether or not he wanted to join in when we went for lunch. Wherever it was, it had to be someplace close and easy to get to, with lots of parking. There needed to be a big selection on the menu, the food had to be good and relatively inexpensive. It was necessary to be able to get a seat right away, the service needed to be quick and there couldn't be a long wait to pay before leaving.
Listening to people describe what they expect from a show sounds a lot like that.
Looking forward to Washington DC. It should be a much nicer city than Baltimore.
Philadelphia and Boston would be interesting for trying out in the future too.
Sunshine Rare Coins
sunshinecoins.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html
He didn't say collectors were in the way, he said they were the smaller percentage of his total business at a show. Dealers pay their bills and put food on the table for themselves and their family through the business they do, why wouldn't they focus on the portion of that business that generates the majority of their income?
Sometimes.
You are welcome. You just aren't the sole reason coin shows exist. Sorry.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Yeah, well you can't blame people for wanting everything. That said, those unwilling to compromise while holding out for perfection end up missing out on a lot of life.
Because, at the end of the day, what actually generates all of the industry's income is the margin on sales to the public. There is no industry at all if it's all just dealers selling back and forth to each other.
This is what people running shows like IMEX fail to take into account. At least until they focus so much on dealers that retail traffic is light, and the show ends up sucking.
Yes, wholesale is very important, which is why they have dealer days and early bird admissions. But, trust me, if you build it primarily for dealers and the public doesn't show up, the show ends up sucking for dealers.
Not saying that will happen with DC in February. But it might.
No one will be taking a family trip to DC in the middle of the week in the middle of winter. The amenities are very similar to Baltimore.
And then, the sales tax. We'll see. But most people jonesing for a show have FUN in January and VA Beach in March. No one except Whitman really needs DC in February.
"Industry's income" is not dependent solely on business transacted at coin shows. @DelawareDoons says he gets inventory for sales to the public from other dealers at shows and I would presume (based on the percentages he noted) that a majority of his sales to the public tend to occur elsewhere. I have no reason to doubt his conclusions, it's his business and I expect he knows better how it works than anyone else.
Totally understand. And, it's true, a dealer who only goes to a show to sell to or buy from other dealers does not need to do business with the public, and does not care whether or not the public attends. In fact, many of them don't even take tables, and just walk the floor offering their wares or perusing other dealers' inventories. If everyone did that, though it would not be much of a show if no one was paying to be there.
But where is their inventory coming from in the first place? Again, everything begins and ends with the public. Poop on the public, and you don't have an industry. The Mint just learned a micro lesson in this with its $10-20K gold Liberty Bell coins that were not meant for a retail audience. Turns out no one else wanted them either, since they could not be profitably marketed to the public.
The shows that don't have robust public attendance are the shows that suck, even if they work for people using the gatherings exclusively to do wholesale business. Believe it or not.
If this were not the case, many more shows would be intimate dealer-only gatherings, like the PCGS Invitationals (even though I realize PCGS members were invited, there also wasn't much for them to see or do there), and the public would not even be invited. Hardly what a retail publisher like Whitman is going for with its shows.