Seems they should not release at the EXACT same time every day…. My guess is the bots go live when the ats flips. Maybe If the mint released at random times, I think they would have a much easier time figuring out who is refreshing browser every minute 🤷♂️
It’s a lose lose situation any way you look at it.
I only have 31 minutes left in the waiting room before I get in
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Does anyone actually believe the buyer is going to pay $15,000 or $12,000 given the nonexistent demand on 1/2 ounce golds? Come on, let’s use some common sense here. The odds of these being actual sales where money is actually exchanged for the coin are very low.
@jessewvu said:
Seems they should not release at the EXACT same time every day…. My guess is the bots go live when the ats flips. Maybe If the mint released at random times, I think they would have a much easier time figuring out who is refreshing browser every minute 🤷♂️
It’s a lose lose situation any way you look at it.
The bots can probe constantly all day. If they go to random release, it actually favors the bots.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@CoinPhysicist said:
Does anyone actually believe the buyer is going to pay $15,000 or $12,000 given the nonexistent demand on 1/2 ounce golds? Come on, let’s use some common sense here. The odds of these being actual sales where money is actually exchanged for the coin are very low.
Edit: typo.
I hope you are correct. Given the high initial price from the Mint and the low quality (as reported by some), it's hard to see these gold coins holding their long-term value. Then again, what do I know.
@CoinPhysicist said:
Does anyone actually believe the buyer is going to pay $15,000 or $12,000 given the nonexistent demand on 1/2 ounce golds? Come on, let’s use some common sense here. The odds of these being actual sales where money is actually exchanged for the coin are very low.
Edit: typo.
I watch in amazement on eBay how some people are still in bidding wars for the 2026 July 4th privy quarter. Active bids over $300 when many others are selling for Buy It Now prices of $200 or so. I do find it funny how many are now lowering their BIN prices all while boosting their shipping fees above $30 for a quarter…..
This ringing liberty coin might be a bust for the mint. They all were claimed quite quickly. I was thrilled to get both the 1oz and the 1/2oz coins. However, after considering the 5x spot price, the fact that so many have been returned to the mint that they are still available with no limit, the fact that they are not moving on ebay, and the fact that no bullion buyers will touch them, I canceled my orders. Buyer's remorse, I suppose. But, I still have my $29,650 for other things. I think the mint got a little greedy on this one.
@playbill said:
This ringing liberty coin might be a bust for the mint. They all were claimed quite quickly. I was thrilled to get both the 1oz and the 1/2oz coins. However, after considering the 5x spot price, the fact that so many have been returned to the mint that they are still available with no limit, the fact that they are not moving on ebay, and the fact that no bullion buyers will touch them, I canceled my orders. Buyer's remorse, I suppose. But, I still have my $29,650 for other things. I think the mint got a little greedy on this one.
This just proves my original point. Very few, including, apparently, you, actually wanted these. Everyone wanted them only because they thought others would want them. No FOMO, no demand.
Not really buyer's remorse, because it's not like you bought it, and it's not exactly what you thought it was. Other than the fact that they are not sold out, and cannot be flipped for a profit.
In hindsight, yes, of course "no bullion buyers will touch them." It's $30K for 1.5 ounces of gold shaped like 2 bells.
Quality most definitely lacking though interesting design on the golds I received today. So poor couldn't stomach taking pics before quickly repackaging and shipping back. Probably get shut down for excessive returns of 250 products this year. Oh well, bring it US Mint.
The irony is that the most "unwanted" and "unpopular" mint products end up being the most desirable in the future after the dust settles. Still it's too early to make that judgement.
ATS= 656 & 438.
Assuming that by now that dust has settled on cancellations and have been returned to inventory, they've sold a good percentage of the total production. They can easily sell the rest by the end of the year which by all accounts is a success.
@ProofCollection said:
The irony is that the most "unwanted" and "unpopular" mint products end up being the most desirable in the future after the dust settles. Still it's too early to make that judgement.
ATS= 656 & 438.
Assuming that by now that dust has settled on cancellations and have been returned to inventory, they've sold a good percentage of the total production. They can easily sell the rest by the end of the year which by all accounts is a success.
We don't know how many returns there have been. That ATS number could increase considerably.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@ProofCollection said:
The irony is that the most "unwanted" and "unpopular" mint products end up being the most desirable in the future after the dust settles. Still it's too early to make that judgement.
ATS= 656 & 438.
Assuming that by now that dust has settled on cancellations and have been returned to inventory, they've sold a good percentage of the total production. They can easily sell the rest by the end of the year which by all accounts is a success.
Still plenty of returns to come, especially on the 1/2 oz. People just got them Friday, they haven't even arrived back in Dallas and have not been placed back in inventory.
@ProofCollection said:
The irony is that the most "unwanted" and "unpopular" mint products end up being the most desirable in the future after the dust settles. Still it's too early to make that judgement.
ATS= 656 & 438.
Assuming that by now that dust has settled on cancellations and have been returned to inventory, they've sold a good percentage of the total production. They can easily sell the rest by the end of the year which by all accounts is a success.
Agreed on the most unpopular and undesirable stance. If the returns are not recycled the total might adjust. Dust most probably will not settle for some time on returns though in the end likely a success story, manufactured rarity or otherwise. Still contemplating re-ordering now before returns begin flooding the mailroom and my ban takes effect.
@ProofCollection said:
The irony is that the most "unwanted" and "unpopular" mint products end up being the most desirable in the future after the dust settles. Still it's too early to make that judgement.
ATS= 656 & 438.
Assuming that by now that dust has settled on cancellations and have been returned to inventory, they've sold a good percentage of the total production. They can easily sell the rest by the end of the year which by all accounts is a success.
If you say so. I say put a fork in them, because they are done, and that ATS is actually going to go up, not down, by the end of the year.
Cancellations are done. Returns have not even begun yet from last Thursday. I wouldn't be surprised if those ATS numbers don't double from here in the next few weeks.
As I said in other posts, very few actually wanted them for any reason other than to flip. There is no flip here. On to the next big thing.
Yes, if you set the mintage low enough, you can sell a "good percentage" of anything. Sure, 68% is a lot. But it's not close to a sell out, and still only 1370 units. Nothing for a Mint product, but yes, a crazy amount for anything sold at $20,000 per ounce with the mintage in the thousands as opposed to hundreds.
People don't love these. More will come back.
Because they are huge losers. Those $20K gold bells will be $10K in a year or so, if not less. That's a LOT of money to lose on a single unit of a single modern NCLT.
For some reason, people are chasing half ounce silver medals because they are only making 2026 of them. Those will not come back to the Mint. I was wrong about them.
But, current pricing will not hold once the fever breaks, and people see half ounce and full ounce gold versions sit unsold at the Mint, albeit at higher prices, but far lower premiums to intrinsic value. And actual coins, not medals.
@ProofCollection said:
The irony is that the most "unwanted" and "unpopular" mint products end up being the most desirable in the future after the dust settles. Still it's too early to make that judgement.
ATS= 656 & 438.
Assuming that by now that dust has settled on cancellations and have been returned to inventory, they've sold a good percentage of the total production. They can easily sell the rest by the end of the year which by all accounts is a success.
We don't know how meant returns there have been. That ATS number could increase considerably.
Agreed. It's physically impossible for anything to have been shipped, received, returned, received, examined, restocked, and added back to ATS in 3 business days.
The ATS thus far is just cancellations. All the returns are pending. And common sense dictates there will be MANY of them. For, among other reasons, because we know buyers clubs instructed their buyers to do just that.
@ProofCollection said:
The irony is that the most "unwanted" and "unpopular" mint products end up being the most desirable in the future after the dust settles. Still it's too early to make that judgement.
ATS= 656 & 438.
Assuming that by now that dust has settled on cancellations and have been returned to inventory, they've sold a good percentage of the total production. They can easily sell the rest by the end of the year which by all accounts is a success.
If you say so. I say put a fork in them, because they are done, and that ATS is actually going to go up, not down, by the end of the year.
Cancellations are done. Returns have not even begun yet from last Thursday. I wouldn't be surprised if those ATS numbers don't double from here in the next few weeks.
As I said in other posts, very few actually wanted them for any reason other than to flip. There is no flip here. On to the next big thing.
Yes, if you set the mintage low enough, you can sell a "good percentage" of anything. Sure, 68% is a lot. But it's not close to a sell out, and still only 1370 units. Nothing for a Mint product, but yes, a crazy amount for anything sold at $20,000 per ounce with the mintage in the thousands as opposed to hundreds.
People don't love these. More will come back.
Only 2076 people need to love them. I'm sure there are at least that many.
Because they are huge losers. Those $20K gold bells will be $10K in a year or so, if not less. That's a LOT of money to lose on a single unit of a single modern NCLT.
I guess if you define a winner only as an instant sellout. I think a more traditional view of retail success is appropriate for selling $40M of product. It would be a huge success for them to sell out by the end of the year.
For some reason, people are chasing half ounce silver medals because they are only making 2026 of them. Those will not come back to the Mint. I was wrong about them.
People love them. Just because you don't doesn't mean other people don't. The issue here is the you need love plus the wherewithal to purchase them at issue price which limits the pool of buyers. It will take time for them to find their way into those hands but they will get there.
But, current pricing will not hold once the fever breaks, and people see half ounce and full ounce gold versions sit unsold at the Mint, albeit at higher prices, but far lower premiums to intrinsic value. And actual coins, not medals.
Only if the people ending up with them are desperate to sell. Most loose hands have cancelled or will return. The rest should end up in diamond hands.
@ProofCollection said:
The irony is that the most "unwanted" and "unpopular" mint products end up being the most desirable in the future after the dust settles. Still it's too early to make that judgement.
ATS= 656 & 438.
Assuming that by now that dust has settled on cancellations and have been returned to inventory, they've sold a good percentage of the total production. They can easily sell the rest by the end of the year which by all accounts is a success.
If you say so. I say put a fork in them, because they are done, and that ATS is actually going to go up, not down, by the end of the year.
Cancellations are done. Returns have not even begun yet from last Thursday. I wouldn't be surprised if those ATS numbers don't double from here in the next few weeks.
As I said in other posts, very few actually wanted them for any reason other than to flip. There is no flip here. On to the next big thing.
Yes, if you set the mintage low enough, you can sell a "good percentage" of anything. Sure, 68% is a lot. But it's not close to a sell out, and still only 1370 units. Nothing for a Mint product, but yes, a crazy amount for anything sold at $20,000 per ounce with the mintage in the thousands as opposed to hundreds.
People don't love these. More will come back.
Only 2076 people need to love them. I'm sure there are at least that many.
Because they are huge losers. Those $20K gold bells will be $10K in a year or so, if not less. That's a LOT of money to lose on a single unit of a single modern NCLT.
I guess if you define a winner only as an instant sellout. I think a more traditional view of retail success is appropriate for selling $40M of product. It would be a huge success for them to sell out by the end of the year.
For some reason, people are chasing half ounce silver medals because they are only making 2026 of them. Those will not come back to the Mint. I was wrong about them.
People love them. Just because you don't doesn't mean other people don't. The issue here is the you need love plus the wherewithal to purchase them at issue price which limits the pool of buyers. It will take time for them to find their way into those hands but they will get there.
But, current pricing will not hold once the fever breaks, and people see half ounce and full ounce gold versions sit unsold at the Mint, albeit at higher prices, but far lower premiums to intrinsic value. And actual coins, not medals.
Only if the people ending up with them are desperate to sell. Most loose hands have cancelled or will return. The rest should end up in diamond hands.
No. Not at all. But I am also not a fan of calling games early when you are ahead, while stressing patience when you are not.
I keep pointing this out, and you keep ignoring it. The silvers are actually far more likely to fall from their lofty heights than people are to suddenly discover the joys of $20,000 per ounce and gobble up gold Liberty Bell coins they currently have no interest in.
Yes, the mintages are tiny, but the prices are astronomical. Again, people were really only interested in the flip. Very, very few actually love any of them at these prices.
The flip manifested for the silver. Good for the lucky winners.
Almost everyone who ended up with them were "desperate to sell." Which is why silvers rocketed in price while golds were canceled and will be returned.
Dealers apparently see a market to resell the silver into, but not the gold. So there was a bid for the silver, and not the gold. The golds are not now being bought and kept by retail, even though they are freely available, in strictly limited quantities, and with no purchase limits. They are, instead, being returned by those hoping for a flip, and sitting unsold.
That game is now over, and they really have nowhere to go from here but down. A half ounce of gold sits unsold at $10K. Many, many of them. How much higher than $5K can a half ounce of silver possibly go? How can it even maintain that price?
TBD, but I don't think it will, because I honestly don't think retail have been the buyers to date, and dealers are not going to sit on them indefinitely if they don't move at whatever price they set. I didn't think it was worth $750. Retail is now shunning half ounce gold at $10K. How much are they going to pay for silver FDOI 70s when they make their way to market?
It's really, really, really, is not like people are going to give gold a second look now. Not sure why you can't see what is right in front of you.
Probably because they are too expensive for dealers to profitably flip, and regular people just don't want them at $20K per ounce. If this was not the case, they'd be gone, gone, gone, given how few there are.
Instead, people who bought them to flip, which is almost all of them, will be returning the majority of those that were not already canceled and returned to inventory. You haven't seen them yet, but you will. Maybe then you will no longer be in denial.
In the meantime, feel free to declare the silvers winners while the golds are too early to call. Your prerogative. I'm taking my half a win and going home. I'm not interested in playing heads you win, tails I lose coin flips with you.
The Gold returns have only just started.
The USM could stop the bleed by reducing the price immediately and issuing credits to those that bought already.
They won't do it.
They would rather take the rediculous price on 1/2 of the inventory and sit on the other half (which will be discounted out the door later to the big boys at a reduced price - just like some of the products a few years ago)
@coiner said:
The Gold returns have only just started.
The USM could stop the bleed by reducing the price immediately and issuing credits to those that bought already.
They won't do it.
They would rather take the rediculous price on 1/2 of the inventory and sit on the other half (which will be discounted out the door later to the big boys at a reduced price - just like some of the products a few years ago)
No. And no.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
No to what?
I know you have been around long enough to remember the firesale of excess ASE inventory out the back door at reduced prices a few years back.
I never saw Silver today (screen froze about a minute - so they might have been there but those dang BOTS)
ATS on both Golds up again today (+52 for 1 oz, +59 for 1/2 oz)
@coiner said:
No to what?
I know you have been around long enough to remember the firesale of excess ASE inventory out the back door at reduced prices a few years back.
No, they won't do it.
And the "firesale" was a sealed bid auction of mostly proof eagles, not a 50% off sale. They did it once, 6 years ago, and not since
Wow you guys are really concerned about unsold mint inventory! If it doesn't sell out in a week the mint needs to fire sale it?
You realize they still have products like the 2024 Proof Gold Buffalos (ats 2079) and 2023 Proof APEs right (ats 640)? Why would they be so anxious to liquidate less than 1000oz of gold bells a week after going on sale?
@BStrauss3 said:
Sales #s on the 1oz Gold are going backwards... 688 yesterday 698 today
Patience. They sold 4 in the last hour or so. These are still selling.
They also released a bunch of excess inventory to the general public.
I dont agree with your assessment at all.
This issue (Gold Liberty Bells) - if it dies on the vine and excess inventory exists at year end- is PRIME for another "firesale" - call it what it whatever you want - but you can bet heavily that the "sealed bid" wont make it over 1.5x spot.
@ProofCollection said:
Wow you guys are really concerned about unsold mint inventory! If it doesn't sell out in a week the mint needs to fire sale it?
You realize they still have products like the 2024 Proof Gold Buffalos (ats 2079) and 2023 Proof APEs right (ats 640)? Why would they be so anxious to liquidate less than 1000oz of gold bells a week after going on sale?
The USM will realize thier pricing was "moon money" on the Golds - cannabalized by the Silver (even though a medal) of the same design and topic.
The other issues you mention were priced at GRID, they can hang around a while.
Assuming the USM will never reduce the price on these Gold Liberty Bells - they will sit for a long time with thick dust accumulating on those boxes.
@ProofCollection said:
Wow you guys are really concerned about unsold mint inventory! If it doesn't sell out in a week the mint needs to fire sale it?
You realize they still have products like the 2024 Proof Gold Buffalos (ats 2079) and 2023 Proof APEs right (ats 640)? Why would they be so anxious to liquidate less than 1000oz of gold bells a week after going on sale?
The USM will realize thier pricing was "moon money" on the Golds - cannabalized by the Silver (even though a medal) of the same design and topic.
The other issues you mention were priced at GRID, they can hang around a while.
Assuming the USM will never reduce the price on these Gold Liberty Bells - they will sit for a long time with thick dust accumulating on those boxes.
Why does it matter what they are priced at? It cost the mint approximately the same. The other products examples I provided are also collecting dust but the mint doesn't care.
Why does it matter what they are priced at? It cost the mint approximately the same. The other products examples I provided are also collecting dust but the mint doesn't care.
It's 20k. If you want the item to move - price it right.
It's not going to matter going forward with these extremely limited releases.......the party is over; the BOTS have ruined the landscape.
You'll never beat them to get the product unless some serious changes are made.
They just sold out the EU ASE in seconds as well. Luckily, you could subscribe and ensure getting some product on that issue.
The USM has to update thier TOS and take immediate steps to block these BOTS- which are also "clogging the UI pipes" so even if you get to checkout you "spin forever" and never lock in the purchase.
Lots of good ideas, the USM should dilligently start enacting "all of the above" 1) changing API immediatly before release; 2) 2FA at checkout; 3) various CAPTCHA throughout the ordering process, etc etc etc.
Or, just go to a "Lottery Method" instead -
They also released a bunch of excess inventory to the general public.
I dont agree with your assessment at all.
This issue (Gold Liberty Bells) - if it dies on the vine and excess inventory exists at year end- is PRIME for another "firesale" - call it what it whatever you want - but you can bet heavily that the "sealed bid" wont make it over 1.5x spot.
Which is a reason they won't do it. They would be totally burning whoever bought these things if they turn around sell them for 1.5x spot 5 months after selling them for 5x spot.
NEVER going to happen. Maybe years from now. But likely never. Better to melt them and preserve whatever value those that sold have than to liquidate them in a fire sale. If they do that with these, people will be reluctant to play in the future. Even more so than they will be anyway after seeing this.
@ProofCollection said:
Wow you guys are really concerned about unsold mint inventory! If it doesn't sell out in a week the mint needs to fire sale it?
You realize they still have products like the 2024 Proof Gold Buffalos (ats 2079) and 2023 Proof APEs right (ats 640)? Why would they be so anxious to liquidate less than 1000oz of gold bells a week after going on sale?
The USM will realize thier pricing was "moon money" on the Golds - cannabalized by the Silver (even though a medal) of the same design and topic.
The other issues you mention were priced at GRID, they can hang around a while.
Assuming the USM will never reduce the price on these Gold Liberty Bells - they will sit for a long time with thick dust accumulating on those boxes.
Why does it matter what they are priced at? It cost the mint approximately the same. The other products examples I provided are also collecting dust but the mint doesn't care.
I agree with this - although I'm not sure why you are pumping these so hard.
There is zero risk to the Mint to let them sit. They generally hedge their gold and platinum positions, so fluctuations in the price of gold don't affect them.
The reason failure to sell out is important is because you can count on one hand the number of Mint issues in the last 30 years that didn't sell out in a week and ended up being anything more than bullion. That is not a big deal for something like the Gold Buffalos that is around $800 above spot. It's a HUGE problem for a coin that is $15,000 above spot.
While it may be too soon to totally bury these, it is also too late to be pumping these so hard.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@ProofCollection said:
Wow you guys are really concerned about unsold mint inventory! If it doesn't sell out in a week the mint needs to fire sale it?
You realize they still have products like the 2024 Proof Gold Buffalos (ats 2079) and 2023 Proof APEs right (ats 640)? Why would they be so anxious to liquidate less than 1000oz of gold bells a week after going on sale?
The USM will realize thier pricing was "moon money" on the Golds - cannabalized by the Silver (even though a medal) of the same design and topic.
The other issues you mention were priced at GRID, they can hang around a while.
Assuming the USM will never reduce the price on these Gold Liberty Bells - they will sit for a long time with thick dust accumulating on those boxes.
Why does it matter what they are priced at? It cost the mint approximately the same. The other products examples I provided are also collecting dust but the mint doesn't care.
I agree with this - although I'm not sure why you are pumping these so hard.
There is zero risk to the Mint to let them sit. They generally hedge their gold and platinum positions, so fluctuations in the price of gold don't affect them.
The reason failure to sell out is important is because you can count on one hand the number of Mint issues in the last 30 years that didn't sell out in a week and ended up being anything more than bullion. That is not a big deal for something like the Gold Buffalos that is around $800 above spot. It's a HUGE problem for a coin that is $15,000 above spot.
While it may be too soon to totally bury these, it is also too late to be pumping these so hard.
I disagree with your characterization, I'm not pumping them at all. I'm just being the lone voice of reason that says a successful product doesn't have to sell out in 5 minutes to be declared a success for the US Mint. I am not advocating that the gold bells will be good investments, or if people don't like the term investments, that these will appreciate in value at a noticeable rate. The silver might be. The mint doesn't care about this. For all we know, the mint may have been targeting a 6 month sell out because any thing faster actually indicates that they left money on the table.
Now if we're defining a successful product as a product that can be flipped for immediate profit, then yes these are a failure (although a few were successful at that). I don't think it's the yard stick that the community should use.
I disagree with your characterization, I'm not pumping them at all. I'm just being the lone voice of reason that says a successful product doesn't have to sell out in 5 minutes to be declared a success for the US Mint. I am not advocating that the gold bells will be good investments, or if people don't like the term investments, that these will appreciate in value at a noticeable rate. The silver might be. The mint doesn't care about this. For all we know, the mint may have been targeting a 6 month sell out because any thing faster actually indicates that they left money on the table.
Now if we're defining a successful product as a product that can be flipped for immediate profit, then yes these are a failure (although a few were successful at that). I don't think it's the yard stick that the community should use.
at 5x spot it was a pricing failure.
if there were 250 units @ 19,600 they would have sold out.
hey maybe they just tried to wrap up all their R&D costs and recover them thru into this one product - now they have to eat them on their P/L.
no bonuses this year
Comments
I managed to get one (silver) into my cart this morning, then the system froze while trying to check out.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
No waiting room whatsoever, red button-add to bag at 7:31,..."your bag is empty"
Seems they should not release at the EXACT same time every day…. My guess is the bots go live when the ats flips. Maybe If the mint released at random times, I think they would have a much easier time figuring out who is refreshing browser every minute 🤷♂️
It’s a lose lose situation any way you look at it.
I only have 31 minutes left in the waiting room before I get in
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Looks like some of the one-half ounce Liberty Bells were sold on eBay near their original Mint price. Others sold for a lot more.
Does anyone actually believe the buyer is going to pay $15,000 or $12,000 given the nonexistent demand on 1/2 ounce golds? Come on, let’s use some common sense here. The odds of these being actual sales where money is actually exchanged for the coin are very low.
Edit: typo.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, coinlieutenant, bigjpst, and joebb21.
The bots can probe constantly all day. If they go to random release, it actually favors the bots.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Does this mean we need to start checking at 7 am?
I hope you are correct. Given the high initial price from the Mint and the low quality (as reported by some), it's hard to see these gold coins holding their long-term value. Then again, what do I know.
The 3 gold offers are bag~able three minutes ago...
Happy Shopping !
I watch in amazement on eBay how some people are still in bidding wars for the 2026 July 4th privy quarter. Active bids over $300 when many others are selling for Buy It Now prices of $200 or so. I do find it funny how many are now lowering their BIN prices all while boosting their shipping fees above $30 for a quarter…..
Latest mint sales report has the silver at 2,021
Sorry, no, my mistake. I fixed it. I was surprised to see the add to bag button at 7:31 to be sure.
You had everyone changing the alarms on their iPhones!
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
It baffles me why would someone buy the gold version on Ebay, when they're still available at the Mint?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
For nearly 20? Unreal.
This ringing liberty coin might be a bust for the mint. They all were claimed quite quickly. I was thrilled to get both the 1oz and the 1/2oz coins. However, after considering the 5x spot price, the fact that so many have been returned to the mint that they are still available with no limit, the fact that they are not moving on ebay, and the fact that no bullion buyers will touch them, I canceled my orders. Buyer's remorse, I suppose. But, I still have my $29,650 for other things. I think the mint got a little greedy on this one.
This just proves my original point. Very few, including, apparently, you, actually wanted these. Everyone wanted them only because they thought others would want them. No FOMO, no demand.
Not really buyer's remorse, because it's not like you bought it, and it's not exactly what you thought it was. Other than the fact that they are not sold out, and cannot be flipped for a profit.
In hindsight, yes, of course "no bullion buyers will touch them." It's $30K for 1.5 ounces of gold shaped like 2 bells.
Quality most definitely lacking though interesting design on the golds I received today. So poor couldn't stomach taking pics before quickly repackaging and shipping back. Probably get shut down for excessive returns of 250 products this year. Oh well, bring it US Mint.
The irony is that the most "unwanted" and "unpopular" mint products end up being the most desirable in the future after the dust settles. Still it's too early to make that judgement.
ATS= 656 & 438.
Assuming that by now that dust has settled on cancellations and have been returned to inventory, they've sold a good percentage of the total production. They can easily sell the rest by the end of the year which by all accounts is a success.
We don't know how many returns there have been. That ATS number could increase considerably.
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It was the first time I've ever seen gold get that close to $20,000/oz.
Still plenty of returns to come, especially on the 1/2 oz. People just got them Friday, they haven't even arrived back in Dallas and have not been placed back in inventory.
Agreed on the most unpopular and undesirable stance. If the returns are not recycled the total might adjust. Dust most probably will not settle for some time on returns though in the end likely a success story, manufactured rarity or otherwise. Still contemplating re-ordering now before returns begin flooding the mailroom and my ban takes effect.
But you get the bonus of the Errors in the pressing of the coins (ahem, bell shape).
The extra value from the errors help offset the exorbitant cost!
/s
BST references available on request
If you say so. I say put a fork in them, because they are done, and that ATS is actually going to go up, not down, by the end of the year.
Cancellations are done. Returns have not even begun yet from last Thursday. I wouldn't be surprised if those ATS numbers don't double from here in the next few weeks.
As I said in other posts, very few actually wanted them for any reason other than to flip. There is no flip here. On to the next big thing.
Yes, if you set the mintage low enough, you can sell a "good percentage" of anything. Sure, 68% is a lot. But it's not close to a sell out, and still only 1370 units. Nothing for a Mint product, but yes, a crazy amount for anything sold at $20,000 per ounce with the mintage in the thousands as opposed to hundreds.
People don't love these. More will come back.
Because they are huge losers. Those $20K gold bells will be $10K in a year or so, if not less. That's a LOT of money to lose on a single unit of a single modern NCLT.
For some reason, people are chasing half ounce silver medals because they are only making 2026 of them. Those will not come back to the Mint. I was wrong about them.
But, current pricing will not hold once the fever breaks, and people see half ounce and full ounce gold versions sit unsold at the Mint, albeit at higher prices, but far lower premiums to intrinsic value. And actual coins, not medals.
Agreed. It's physically impossible for anything to have been shipped, received, returned, received, examined, restocked, and added back to ATS in 3 business days.
The ATS thus far is just cancellations. All the returns are pending. And common sense dictates there will be MANY of them. For, among other reasons, because we know buyers clubs instructed their buyers to do just that.
Only 2076 people need to love them. I'm sure there are at least that many.
I guess if you define a winner only as an instant sellout. I think a more traditional view of retail success is appropriate for selling $40M of product. It would be a huge success for them to sell out by the end of the year.
People love them. Just because you don't doesn't mean other people don't. The issue here is the you need love plus the wherewithal to purchase them at issue price which limits the pool of buyers. It will take time for them to find their way into those hands but they will get there.
Only if the people ending up with them are desperate to sell. Most loose hands have cancelled or will return. The rest should end up in diamond hands.
No. Not at all. But I am also not a fan of calling games early when you are ahead, while stressing patience when you are not.
I keep pointing this out, and you keep ignoring it. The silvers are actually far more likely to fall from their lofty heights than people are to suddenly discover the joys of $20,000 per ounce and gobble up gold Liberty Bell coins they currently have no interest in.
Yes, the mintages are tiny, but the prices are astronomical. Again, people were really only interested in the flip. Very, very few actually love any of them at these prices.
The flip manifested for the silver. Good for the lucky winners.
Almost everyone who ended up with them were "desperate to sell." Which is why silvers rocketed in price while golds were canceled and will be returned.
Dealers apparently see a market to resell the silver into, but not the gold. So there was a bid for the silver, and not the gold. The golds are not now being bought and kept by retail, even though they are freely available, in strictly limited quantities, and with no purchase limits. They are, instead, being returned by those hoping for a flip, and sitting unsold.
That game is now over, and they really have nowhere to go from here but down. A half ounce of gold sits unsold at $10K. Many, many of them. How much higher than $5K can a half ounce of silver possibly go? How can it even maintain that price?
TBD, but I don't think it will, because I honestly don't think retail have been the buyers to date, and dealers are not going to sit on them indefinitely if they don't move at whatever price they set. I didn't think it was worth $750. Retail is now shunning half ounce gold at $10K. How much are they going to pay for silver FDOI 70s when they make their way to market?
It's really, really, really, is not like people are going to give gold a second look now. Not sure why you can't see what is right in front of you.
Probably because they are too expensive for dealers to profitably flip, and regular people just don't want them at $20K per ounce. If this was not the case, they'd be gone, gone, gone, given how few there are.
Instead, people who bought them to flip, which is almost all of them, will be returning the majority of those that were not already canceled and returned to inventory. You haven't seen them yet, but you will. Maybe then you will no longer be in denial.
In the meantime, feel free to declare the silvers winners while the golds are too early to call. Your prerogative. I'm taking my half a win and going home. I'm not interested in playing heads you win, tails I lose coin flips with you.
Enlighten me. What is a fake Ebay sale?
A sale that doesn't involve actual exchange of goods for money.
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The Gold returns have only just started.
The USM could stop the bleed by reducing the price immediately and issuing credits to those that bought already.
They won't do it.
They would rather take the rediculous price on 1/2 of the inventory and sit on the other half (which will be discounted out the door later to the big boys at a reduced price - just like some of the products a few years ago)
No. And no.
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No to what?
I know you have been around long enough to remember the firesale of excess ASE inventory out the back door at reduced prices a few years back.
I do not doubt they could take that route again -if enough unsold inventory remains late this year.
I never saw Silver today (screen froze about a minute - so they might have been there but those dang BOTS)
ATS on both Golds up again today (+52 for 1 oz, +59 for 1/2 oz)
No, they won't do it.
And the "firesale" was a sealed bid auction of mostly proof eagles, not a 50% off sale. They did it once, 6 years ago, and not since
https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/u-s-mint-sells-older-gold-silver-coinage-to-select-dealers-in-sealed-bid-auction
They also released a bunch of excess inventory to the general public.
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Sales #s on the 1oz Gold are going backwards... 688 yesterday 698 today
ANA 50+ year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
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Wow you guys are really concerned about unsold mint inventory! If it doesn't sell out in a week the mint needs to fire sale it?
You realize they still have products like the 2024 Proof Gold Buffalos (ats 2079) and 2023 Proof APEs right (ats 640)? Why would they be so anxious to liquidate less than 1000oz of gold bells a week after going on sale?
Patience. They sold 4 in the last hour or so. These are still selling.
I dont agree with your assessment at all.
This issue (Gold Liberty Bells) - if it dies on the vine and excess inventory exists at year end- is PRIME for another "firesale" - call it what it whatever you want - but you can bet heavily that the "sealed bid" wont make it over 1.5x spot.
The USM will realize thier pricing was "moon money" on the Golds - cannabalized by the Silver (even though a medal) of the same design and topic.
The other issues you mention were priced at GRID, they can hang around a while.
Assuming the USM will never reduce the price on these Gold Liberty Bells - they will sit for a long time with thick dust accumulating on those boxes.
Unless of course the whole world goes nuts and we see 20k gold/oz shortly!
Why does it matter what they are priced at? It cost the mint approximately the same. The other products examples I provided are also collecting dust but the mint doesn't care.
It's 20k. If you want the item to move - price it right.
It's not going to matter going forward with these extremely limited releases.......the party is over; the BOTS have ruined the landscape.
You'll never beat them to get the product unless some serious changes are made.
They just sold out the EU ASE in seconds as well. Luckily, you could subscribe and ensure getting some product on that issue.
The USM has to update thier TOS and take immediate steps to block these BOTS- which are also "clogging the UI pipes" so even if you get to checkout you "spin forever" and never lock in the purchase.
Lots of good ideas, the USM should dilligently start enacting "all of the above" 1) changing API immediatly before release; 2) 2FA at checkout; 3) various CAPTCHA throughout the ordering process, etc etc etc.
Or, just go to a "Lottery Method" instead -
Which is a reason they won't do it. They would be totally burning whoever bought these things if they turn around sell them for 1.5x spot 5 months after selling them for 5x spot.
NEVER going to happen. Maybe years from now. But likely never. Better to melt them and preserve whatever value those that sold have than to liquidate them in a fire sale. If they do that with these, people will be reluctant to play in the future. Even more so than they will be anyway after seeing this.
I agree with this - although I'm not sure why you are pumping these so hard.
There is zero risk to the Mint to let them sit. They generally hedge their gold and platinum positions, so fluctuations in the price of gold don't affect them.
The reason failure to sell out is important is because you can count on one hand the number of Mint issues in the last 30 years that didn't sell out in a week and ended up being anything more than bullion. That is not a big deal for something like the Gold Buffalos that is around $800 above spot. It's a HUGE problem for a coin that is $15,000 above spot.
While it may be too soon to totally bury these, it is also too late to be pumping these so hard.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I disagree with your characterization, I'm not pumping them at all. I'm just being the lone voice of reason that says a successful product doesn't have to sell out in 5 minutes to be declared a success for the US Mint. I am not advocating that the gold bells will be good investments, or if people don't like the term investments, that these will appreciate in value at a noticeable rate. The silver might be. The mint doesn't care about this. For all we know, the mint may have been targeting a 6 month sell out because any thing faster actually indicates that they left money on the table.
Now if we're defining a successful product as a product that can be flipped for immediate profit, then yes these are a failure (although a few were successful at that). I don't think it's the yard stick that the community should use.
at 5x spot it was a pricing failure.
if there were 250 units @ 19,600 they would have sold out.
hey maybe they just tried to wrap up all their R&D costs and recover them thru into this one product - now they have to eat them on their P/L.
no bonuses this year