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Help with AT coins.
Charleswhall1
Posts: 11 ✭
As i have gotten older I want to shrink and improve my collection. What in your opinion is my best option for these AT coins. Send to auction, keep and let heirs deal with them or remove toning and resubmit. Thank you for your time.
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I think it would be a waste of money to remove the toning and resubmit, as the cost would (edited to) almost certainly exceed whatever added value might result.
Unless your heirs would appreciate the coins, I see no reason to hold them for that purpose.
I’d consign the coins to auction - eBay or other. Some of them look as if they could still bring decent prices. And even with commissions, my guess is that you’d still net you more than if you were to sell them, yourself.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I largely agree with what @MFeld said, if the decision is to sell them.
If you enjoy them,;I would just keep them and let your heirs deal with it.
What i wouldn't do is spend any time or money trying to "fix" them.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Thank you for the good advice.
I've told people many times that if you want to get out of a hole...stop digging.
If your motivation is to trim the collection and save the heirs time and aggravation then get rid of them as-is. Someone will buy them with the idea they are pretty or that they will crack them out and sell them raw as monsters. You can't control downstream behavior.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Have to ask, did you AT them yourself or buy as such?
I was looking up CDN bid on a common Morgan dollar and noticed how a number of slabbed toners brought well over CDN bid in auction (4-6 times) especially if early holders. Am sure toner specialists participate in that arena. The ones that brought the money had considerable vibrant color.
Sigh... artificially toned or straight grades?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Maybe it’s just me, but I purchased a beautiful “UNC” 1931S cent over 45 years ago from a major coin dealer in Dallas. I submitted it around 20 years ago and it came back graded as “questionable color.” I was shocked….and really upset as the dealer I bought it from was extremely well known, so there was no way in my mind that I had purchased an ‘artificially toned’ semi-key Lincoln. It has bothered me for years so I decided to take it to the show in Orlando a few weeks ago. I had a few dealers and a grader look at it and they couldn’t understand the grade either…..so I am doing a crossover and will see how it goes. Just something about ‘questionable color’ and ‘details’ graded coins that really bug me…..so I am disposing of them as I can and replacing them with straight graded coins. Good luck with yours…some look very nice!
That's interesting. My issue of CDN doesn't include bid values on "Questionable Color" coins, though- is that a new feature?
You know he was referring to straight grade coins, even though the “information” he posted had nothing to do with the topic at hand. This wouldn’t be the first time or the second time (or fill in your own higher number) for him to have done that.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
don't let heirs deal with your problems
when the time comes you'll be trying to figure out how to make it easier on them
When the time comes, I'll be dead and really won't care.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Of course, hence my sigh.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
For the most money in your pocket - crack them and sell on ebay - for some reason "toned" coins sell for crazy high prices. The "Questionable color" slab will hold the bidding down. Although I don't know how ethical people will feel about doing that.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Yes, if cracked out and offered on eBay without disclosing their prior history, I think there’s a good chance that the coins would sell for more money. I also think that would be unethical.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
CDN does not give bid / CPG for toners. The point of my post was how some toners researched in auction results went for multiples vs non toners.
Ethics would involve intent and belief. If I owned a PCGS Questionable Toning coin and I believed it was authentic toning and not AT I'd think cracking it out and selling it raw would be fine.
Let me add: Perhaps it would be best if done so to suggest or state it had been previously graded with PCGS and the insert stated it was QT.
In the unlikely event that I were cracking the coins out because I believed the toning was natural, I’d do as you mentioned in your “Let me add”. But if you’re going to disclose the past history, why crack the coins out?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Has anyone here ever resubmitted a coin slabbed as "QT" for reconsideration and had the coin come back straight graded?
I bet you know the answer to that. And it’s happened in reverse, too. But to me, it’s not justification for a seller of a coin that was previously detail-graded, failing to disclose its past history. However, I’m aware that a lot of people feel differently.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
From what I see of the photos, many appear correctly graded as questionable color. There is no point in grading any of those. You are better off selling as-is on a venue like eBay (not at a local coin store as there you will likely be offered under melt while on eBay, even after fees, you would do better). The first Morgan pictured would get a decent amount more than what a local store would offer.
IMO, disclosure of past history is not a black-and-white issue, I think it's more of a case-by-case deal. Coins get upgraded (or, as in the 43-D Lincoln thread, downgraded) all the time and I don't know that it's an ethical failing for not disclosing a past grading event that the grading company itself has determined was inaccurate.
I agree that it’s not a black and white issue.
On the subject of disclosure of a coin’s history - and I might have posted this a long time ago…
At the time, I was working for Pinnacle Rarities and we had submitted a superb and pristine looking sandblast Proof $10 Indian. Right before I submitted it, because so many of those coins had been altered, I remember saying something like “So many of these have been messed with, they might not know what a wholly original one looks like. So I wouldn’t be surprised if it comes back altered surfaces”. And sure enough, it did.
Soon thereafter, I showed the coin to a knowledgeable dealer whom I thought would have interest in it. I told him that the coin had body-bagged at PCGS (as detail-grading hadn’t been introduced yet), what I thought of it and priced it at PR67 money. At the time, that was about as high as such coins had been graded. It might have taken him as long as a minute to buy it. But probably not.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I just submitted one to CACG that was a 91 in a PCGS holder. Everyone I showed it to including a professional grader said they thought the questionable color grade was wrong. So we will see what CACG thinks…..🤔😬
This brings up an interesting question related to the "matte proof" 1921 Peace dollar on the other thread. It was in an MS holder earlier this year. How would people feel about it being broken out and sold as a proof? Seems to me, it's a similar issue.
I'll admit QT is a more inconsistent standard than proof vs MS. But it is still someone replacing their judgment for the TPG when it profits them. There is an eBay seller who specializes in breaking out details coins and selling them raw. "Cleaned" is often as flexible as QT when mild. Yet I haven't seen any grace offered to individuals who break out details coins.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Cleaning and toning appear to both exist on a continuum where, on one hand, everybody agrees the coin is original and on the other, altered. And then there's a whole bunch of coins in the middle between those endpoints. Which everybody doesn't agree on when it comes to picking one of the endpoint labels.
I think it’s a similar issue, as well.
There might be more than one eBay seller who specializes in breaking out details coins and selling them raw. 😏
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
There is a quaint little town, northeast of San Diego that specializes in Apple pie.
That town reminds me of the seller whom you may be referring to.
How far from San Diego? I used to live there and think I might have had that apple pie.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Not anywhere near the same amount of money, but very pertinent here… I think this was after you left Pinnacle, but I’m not sure it matters. I bought a proof 3CN graded by NGC with great color from you. You made sure I knew that PCGS had previously bagged the coin for color. That didn’t bother you and it didn’t bother me, but it was still worth noting. All these years later (pushing 20) I still love the coin. I also bet it has a much better chance at grading at PCGS, though I have no need to do anything but enjoy it as it is.
We stayed at a bed and breakfast in Pacific Beach, close to San Diego and from I recall it was about a 50-minute car ride.
Jeremy, I’m pretty sure I remember what that coin looked like. I’m thinking primarily rose/pink and green color (and some violet) ? How did I do? Feel free to roast me if I’m way off. 😧
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Thanks - it was Julian and Julian Pie Co.😊
Sorry to all for my thread detour.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'll let you judge... these photos are from January 2007, but they're decent enough:
Thanks for posting that. I’ll give myself a B+, as I omitted the orange. But since it’s been about 20 years and considering gradeflation, should I get an A-? 🤞
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Mark, you get the A-
I call it "GWO"
(Grading While Old)
Thank you - I think? - Pat.😀
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
That is a quite a group of questionable color coins. Did you buy them raw are already in their slabs?
With current grading costs, I would suggest just sending the ones you do not like to GreatCollections in their slabs. Some people pay strong if they like the color.
For you, Mark… l’ll give you the minus 😊
Straight grades.
So why did you swerve from the topic (which pertained to questionable/artificial color) with an irrelevant post?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Some of the AT seen on those coins is recognizable as to a specific coin doctor. They are clearly (to me) coins that were removed from very recent PCI holders with straight grades that were then subsequently and appropriately given the "questionable color" disclaimer by PCGS.
Official PCGS account of:
www.TallahasseeCoinClub.com
A scorpion wants to cross a river but cannot swim, so it asks a frog to carry it on its back. The frog hesitates, fearing the scorpion’s sting, but the scorpion promises not to harm it, reasoning that stinging the frog would also lead to its own death. Convinced, the frog agrees. Midway across the river, the scorpion stings the frog anyway, dooming them both. When the frog asks why, the scorpion replies, "It is my nature"
I’ve heard that a number of times and liked it each time. Well done, as it certainly applies here.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.