@DCW said:
Did anyone on this forum actually get ine of the SILVERS? Seems odd, but I haven't seen anyone come forward with a confirmed order.
(MsMorrisine's 9, notwithstanding, 😆)
One of my friends was able to purchase one on release day a minute or so after release.
Collector Over 100 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 57 members and counting! instagram.com/klnumismatics
@coiner said:
BOTS can even defeat CAPTCHA and reCAPTCHA; these wont be foolproof either.
The USM will need to go to a lottery eventually. We have discussed many times. Enter the lottery to get picked. Check to make sure only one entry per account/HH/address/cc - all the checks you need to make sure only 1 entry.
Youll always battle F&F.
If Walmart can't figure it out for Pokemon, there is no way in hell the mint stands a chance.
The "solution" is easy, but everyone hates it. Just auction all limited edition items. With no flip potential, all buyers' groups just stay away.
The other alternative is unlimited mintages on everything, but then pretty much everyone except hard core Mint hoarders will stay away.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@coiner said:
BOTS can even defeat CAPTCHA and reCAPTCHA; these wont be foolproof either.
The USM will need to go to a lottery eventually. We have discussed many times. Enter the lottery to get picked. Check to make sure only one entry per account/HH/address/cc - all the checks you need to make sure only 1 entry.
Youll always battle F&F.
If Walmart can't figure it out for Pokemon, there is no way in hell the mint stands a chance.
The "solution" is easy, but everyone hates it. Just auction all limited edition items. With no flip potential, all buyers' groups just stay away.
The other alternative is unlimited mintages on everything, but then pretty much everyone except hard core Mint hoarders will stay away.
The other approach is to restrict purchases to established accounts, no guest checkouts and no newly created profiles. Of course the downside is anyone that is theoretically new to the hobby is shut out. Based on the mint's "abilities" of course, I would put the possibility of them doing a good job at this as zero.
Let customers purchase the item within a specified period of time on one day (i.e. 5 hours from noon to 5pm).
Vet the purchasers for HHL violations, etc. (stuffing the ballot box)
Select the "winners" by email. Non winners have authorization drop off their bills as normal.
we only wish the USM would take these ideas and run with them -
im sure between the many ideas on the forum you could come up with a process that works better
a couple ideas from this process, a couple from another and there you have it.
@coiner said:
Or the reverse of "entering" a lottery.
Let customers purchase the item within a specified period of time on one day (i.e. 5 hours from noon to 5pm).
Vet the purchasers for HHL violations, etc. (stuffing the ballot box)
Select the "winners" by email. Non winners have authorization drop off their bills as normal.
When I say select the winners by email - meaning your purchase is allowed to go thru - complete and you will receive the item.
Another forum member suggests established accounts only. Meaning you cant come in as a guest at the last minute......maybe have an account ready to go at the start of the year, or month, or even 5 days before release.........
@DCW said:
Did anyone on this forum actually get ine of the SILVERS? Seems odd, but I haven't seen anyone come forward with a confirmed order.
(MsMorrisine's 9, notwithstanding, 😆)
One of my friends was able to purchase one on release day a minute or so after release.
They didn’t make it a full minute but congrats to your friend if they got in before that.
Auctioning sounds reasonable but 6K items is a lot for an auction house to absorb. The marketplace houses do not have the retail coverage.
They could focus group the direct bulk retailers to establish reasonable pricing based on mintages, Then they would distribute through them but they may not get a consensus on pricing or commitment on quantities.
They are selling out this way but it will never be perceived as fair.
That's retailing, Congress may not approve at some point.
@fathom said:
Auctioning sounds reasonable but 6K items is a lot for an auction house to absorb. The marketplace houses do not have the retail coverage.
They could focus group the direct bulk retailers to establish reasonable pricing based on mintages, Then they would distribute through them but they may not get a consensus on pricing or commitment on quantities.
They are selling out this way but it will never be perceived as fair.
That's retailing, Congress may not approve at some point.
You just do a Dutch auction (there's different versions of this term). Everyone places a bid. If there are 2000 coins, everyone pays what the 2000th highest bid is. It's only one lot bit with 2000 items in it.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
1) Pre-established account holders only
2) Let customers purchase the item within a specified period of time on one day (i.e. 5 hours from noon to 5pm).
3) Vet the purchasers for HHL violations, etc. (stuffing the ballot box)
4) Select the "winners" by allowing purchase to complete as normal -email notify. Non winners have authorization drop off their bills as normal.
GSA Sales - fill out a card at your Post Office.....with your minimum bid above the floor set by GSA.
Wait to find out if you will receive an item - your qty - or reduced at the lowest successful bid.
You could do this via online today - --just dont show the lowest bid until auction period is over and have a HHL qty limit and time limit.
@coiner said:
1) Pre-established account holders only
2) Let customers purchase the item within a specified period of time on one day (i.e. 5 hours from noon to 5pm).
3) Vet the purchasers for HHL violations, etc. (stuffing the ballot box)
4) Select the "winners" by allowing purchase to complete as normal -email notify. Non winners have authorization drop off their bills as normal.
After the first "bell release" everyone in the buyers' clubs would be registered account holders.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Notwithstanding the snarly street fights some of our contentious "experts" have, as usual, contributed; this thread it has given us some useful information and good entertainment.
@coiner said:
1) Pre-established account holders only
2) Let customers purchase the item within a specified period of time on one day (i.e. 5 hours from noon to 5pm).
3) Vet the purchasers for HHL violations, etc. (stuffing the ballot box)
4) Select the "winners" by allowing purchase to complete as normal -email notify. Non winners have authorization drop off their bills as normal.
After the first "bell release" everyone in the buyers' coins would be registered account holders.
BUT - when you vet the winners - you throw out those with HHL/other violations - i.e. using same cc, duplicate addresses, etc. At least everyone has a chance to "enter".
Its not perfect......but this situation with the silver bells requires a remedy quick.
use the same BOT identification method to vet the winners......apparently they are throwing out 1000+ orders over the last 2 days.....they have some way of identifying the problem. They just cant stop it.
@coiner said:
1) Pre-established account holders only
2) Let customers purchase the item within a specified period of time on one day (i.e. 5 hours from noon to 5pm).
3) Vet the purchasers for HHL violations, etc. (stuffing the ballot box)
4) Select the "winners" by allowing purchase to complete as normal -email notify. Non winners have authorization drop off their bills as normal.
After the first "bell release" everyone in the buyers' coins would be registered account holders.
BUT - when you vet the winners - you throw out those with HHL/other violations - i.e. using same cc, duplicate addresses, etc. At least everyone has a chance to "enter".
Its not perfect......but this situation with the silver bells requires a remedy quick.
You're still going to have thousands of buyers' club members with registered accounts.
Only the auction eliminates any financial incentive to flip.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@MsMorrisine said:
managed to score 9 silver this morning. not sure the best place to sell them
Prove it, please.
Why would he lie?
Because he just throws posts up for a reaction. If he really got any, let alone 9, he'd know what to do with them without asking. Not to mention, no one could have possibly gotten more than one this morning in the 3 seconds they were available and the HHL was still in place.
I know you believe in the power of absolutely anything being possible, but when did you become so gullible?
Depending on his time zone, "morning" could have been after the HHL was lifted.
I don't think it's gullible to believe him until I have reason not to. It is possible that he's having us on. But it's a rather pointless joke, if it is.
Doesn’t really matter what time zone you live in. They all get released at the same time and the limit is lifted much later.
True, but I didn't know if any are released later. It's rare but not unheard of. He also didn't say he bought them directly from the Mint.
But he's not sime random troll who popped in to get a reaction. I still prefer to offer him grace, until it's proven to be misplaced.
Fine. But, again, gullible.
Things are sometimes released after 7:30 a.m., but I don't think I have ever seen anything released more than once in a single day. Have you? Come to think of it, maybe one of the ASE privies where they didn't release the entire mintage at noon, and then released some later in the day. But never anything where the entire release sold out, and then stragglers went up more than once on a subsequent day.
In any event, if there was a second release today, there would have been multiple posts about it. Not a single post from @MsMorrisine announcing nonchalantly that he picked up 9, and needs advice on where to unload them.
Admit it, you somehow got played by something that was so obvious that it really wasn't worth a reaction until @Rc5280 gave it one.
Not sure why this now warrants a full blown discussion, or why you are so sensitive about falling for it, but I thought my "🤣🤣🤣" said it all.
No one got 9 today. And anyone who got 9 yesterday with a bot likely accounted for the few that found their way to the website this morning.
With all humility, I nailed it.
About as easy as predicting that the sun will come up tomorrow.
I'm close to giving up on this forum.
Yes. You. You debating whether someone who made an innocuous comment actually picked up 9 silver Liberty Bell medals between yesterday and today, and can't figure out what to do with them.
You. You are the one debating. Because there is no actual debate. Unless the medals were picked up on Pure or eBay, or by running a buyers club.
I didn't "debate" anything. I asked for grace for our forum colleagues and was called names as a result.
I'm sorry, old friend, but i am done with you.
Sorry you are so sensitive.
Called "names"? Gullible? Not a name. A description. And I meant no offense.
In any event, with all the grace you are so anxious to dish out, you can never seem to bring yourself to acknowledge when anyone else is correct, because you are never wrong, since anything is always possible. Even when it really isn't.
Otherwise they will be forced to accept a ton of product and have ATS of at least 1500+ in a week or two time.
Then they will backdoor out the 1500 for spot +500 to the big boys to clear the inventory once they get dusty - just like they did with the backlog of silver eagle proofs a few years ago
@DotStore said:
Thank you for the pictures @HoneyMarket
That's really poor execution on the Mints' part to have such an expensive item just moving around in a round capsule like that. They really should be embarrased
This ^^^. Exactly this. The Mint wants to be PAMP, but PAMP knows how to do this, and the Mint does not. When PAMP sells something like this, with similar mintages (Fendi, Barbie, How Wheels, etc.) they include elaborate packaging and custom holders molded to the shape of the coin. And manage to do so at a far lower price point.
The Mint, OTOH, takes its customers for granted. With good reason. Because, while most on this forum are somewhat discerning, the majority of the public, including the dealers who are ultimately reselling to the public, are not. So you either hold your nose, close your eyes, and play according to their rules, or you sit on the sidelines and criticize like me.
@DCW said:
Did anyone on this forum actually get ine of the SILVERS? Seems odd, but I haven't seen anyone come forward with a confirmed order.
(MsMorrisine's 9, notwithstanding, 😆)
Forget this forum. As far as I know, none of the people in the coin buying groups that generally secure thousands of coins every release even got one. Again, this release attracted the cook groups that have never historically participated in mint drops. It's a tremendously ominous sign for the future if they are allowed to actually get them in hand,
"Cook groups"? If so few are actually available, that would explain the insane secondary market prices, and might not be a great sign when the remaining half finally make it into someone's hands.
@Raufus said:
The mint commented about the process used to do the windows. How does that detail look in hand?
Thank u!
@Raufus Here's a better pic of the windows. Between what they said in the video about the detail of the windows and the most clear pic I could get...I'll leave it up to you.
@DotStore said:
Silver Bells - 1,067
But I was never able to refresh my tab for the actual item -- assuming the bots were busy buying all of the Silver Bells
you saw 1,067 ATS? If that's true, they are reviewing these for bot footprints and mass cancelling. Only problem is, the bots just buy again the next day because their bot protection is so amateur.
I hope the bot protection gets better. I hope the people who have bought with the bots really get hosed if the orders get cancelled and they've already made deals for them.
@Kliao said:
I saw the silver bell open this morning, added to cart, then it was unavailable. The mint removed it from my cart when i tried to check-out.
The bots spam checkout to block the ability to check out manually. Plenty of people including myself can get it into the cart, the problem is the millions of simultaneous bot sessions make it so that you can't actually check out
It's amazing that the mint is not aware of this & working on improvements.
@DotStore said:
Silver Bells - 1,067
But I was never able to refresh my tab for the actual item -- assuming the bots were busy buying all of the Silver Bells
you saw 1,067 ATS? If that's true, they are reviewing these for bot footprints and mass cancelling. Only problem is, the bots just buy again the next day because their bot protection is so amateur.
I hope the bot protection gets better. I hope the people who have bought with the bots really get hosed if the orders get cancelled and they've already made deals for them.
No one is going to get hosed. If they can't fulfill, for reasons beyond their control, they will give refunds and be done with it. No one is going to get sued over the Mint canceling an order, and a reseller not going into the market to fulfill a sale at a loss.
Cook groups are different from buyers clubs. Cook groups are paid, private communities that focus on sharing tools, tips, etc. for people reselling limited-release products like sneakers, video game consoles, Pokemon, Supreme, or whatever is hot (they've targeted some coins in the past, like the 19XE). With a buyers club, people are sourcing the products for the club, but with a cook group, people are usually looking for an edge to source products for themselves (to flip).
@Kliao said:
I saw the silver bell open this morning, added to cart, then it was unavailable. The mint removed it from my cart when i tried to check-out.
The bots spam checkout to block the ability to check out manually. Plenty of people including myself can get it into the cart, the problem is the millions of simultaneous bot sessions make it so that you can't actually check out
It's amazing that the mint is not aware of this & working on improvements.
To be fair, it's rare, and they are "working on improvements" by auditing and canceling the orders. In the past, they've done nothing, and several members here, when they were not victims, have defending the use of bots, and even claimed they don't violate the Mint's T&Cs. Because they are just "tools" used by actual people.
All this said, yes, if the Mint wants to starting emulating other, smaller, world and private mints, it can start curating lists of preferred customers that it could use to pre-sell rare things like this. The Perth and Royal Canadian mints have different, early order windows for hot items that customers get access to based on status that is based on hitting annual purchase thresholds.
That would flush out bots while provoking inequity claims from people who don't have thousands or tens of thousands to spend annually on Mint product, but who want equal access to hot items. To be honest, that is probably where the Mint is heading if they continue down the path of making bespoke items that can not be reliably distributed via the public website. Either that, or distributing exclusively through dealers at set prices, like they tried to do with the original ATB bullion pucks.
@DotStore said:
Thank you for the pictures @HoneyMarket
That's really poor execution on the Mints' part to have such an expensive item just moving around in a round capsule like that. They really should be embarrased
The coin was not just freely sliding around in the capsule. After I opened the capsule last night, I could see that the the coin was resting on some sort of clear rubber piece within the capsule (that you could not tell was there). That at least kept the coin from freely sliding but it was still moving around - I don't know what the rubber piece was...as I had not encountered it before - Now I wish I had taken a picture of that as well.
Question about bots. Does the program run 24 hours a day or do you have to program the bot to execute at a particular time. If public knowledge knows that these are available daily at 0730, why doesn’t the mint simply change the availability time to 0725 or 0737 or any other random time to avoid bots. Of course this strategy does not work if the bots are running 24/7.
@jskillz95 said:
Question about bots. Does the program run 24 hours a day or do you have to program the bot to execute at a particular time. If public knowledge knows that these are available daily at 0730, why doesn’t the mint simply change the availability time to 0725 or 0737 or any other random time to avoid bots. Of course this strategy does not work if the bots are running 24/7.
Bots can do multiple things in multiple ways
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@jskillz95 said:
Question about bots. Does the program run 24 hours a day or do you have to program the bot to execute at a particular time. If public knowledge knows that these are available daily at 0730, why doesn’t the mint simply change the availability time to 0725 or 0737 or any other random time to avoid bots. Of course this strategy does not work if the bots are running 24/7.
They can be running all the time scanning to see if the add to cart button suddenly appears - they can scan every few seconds
This BOT attack was different - someone has a way (maybe via API) to circumvent even the UI.......then it becomes super fast.
@jskillz95 said:
Question about bots. Does the program run 24 hours a day or do you have to program the bot to execute at a particular time. If public knowledge knows that these are available daily at 0730, why doesn’t the mint simply change the availability time to 0725 or 0737 or any other random time to avoid bots. Of course this strategy does not work if the bots are running 24/7.
If the mint drops stock at a random time, page monitors can auto-ping the bot scripts to run faster than 99.9% of people will figure out that there is stock. The bottom line is that hitting these manually is virtually impossible.
@jskillz95 said:
Question about bots. Does the program run 24 hours a day or do you have to program the bot to execute at a particular time. If public knowledge knows that these are available daily at 0730, why doesn’t the mint simply change the availability time to 0725 or 0737 or any other random time to avoid bots. Of course this strategy does not work if the bots are running 24/7.
They can be running all the time scanning to see if the add to cart button suddenly appears - they can scan every few seconds
This BOT attack was different - someone has a way (maybe via API) to circumvent even the UI.......then it becomes super fast.
Circumventing the UI has been the case for years. Bots haven't been clicking through each page of the checkout flow, if that's what you were thinking.
@ms71 said:
Hopefully the rubber piece wasn't able to come in contact with the coin's surface.
I took a closer look at the coin within its capsule. The coin rests on a highly flexible, rubberized plastic mat at the bottom. The top of the capsule features the same flexible material stretched across it. This design allows for slight inward movement into the voided space. In theory, this setup should cushion the coin and limit contact strictly to the edges to prevent sliding. Unfortunately, the material is too flexible. It allows the coin to slide around and frequently comes into contact with the coin's surfaces.
Regarding the edges of the coin, I examined them using 10x and 20x magnification loupes. There is a raised rim around the entirety of the coin. However, the height of this rim is highly inconsistent. Certain sections of the edge are noticeably higher than others along the exact same patch of the coin.
I've got pictures but unfortunately, they are camera phone pics...so the quality just does not convey through the pictures produced. Let me see if I can add some more pics. Hopefully, more will get their packages today and provide better quality than I can here.
Comments
One of my friends was able to purchase one on release day a minute or so after release.
Collector
Over 100 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 57 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
The "solution" is easy, but everyone hates it. Just auction all limited edition items. With no flip potential, all buyers' groups just stay away.
The other alternative is unlimited mintages on everything, but then pretty much everyone except hard core Mint hoarders will stay away.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
True. The BOTS are here to stay. Advanced BOTS exploit back end entry via APIs - no need to run thru front end UI.
Solving for BOTS will never happen. If you change the rules of the game - a lottery of sorts - that may work better.
The other approach is to restrict purchases to established accounts, no guest checkouts and no newly created profiles. Of course the downside is anyone that is theoretically new to the hobby is shut out. Based on the mint's "abilities" of course, I would put the possibility of them doing a good job at this as zero.
Or the reverse of "entering" a lottery.
Let customers purchase the item within a specified period of time on one day (i.e. 5 hours from noon to 5pm).
Vet the purchasers for HHL violations, etc. (stuffing the ballot box)
Select the "winners" by email. Non winners have authorization drop off their bills as normal.
we only wish the USM would take these ideas and run with them -
im sure between the many ideas on the forum you could come up with a process that works better
a couple ideas from this process, a couple from another and there you have it.
When I say select the winners by email - meaning your purchase is allowed to go thru - complete and you will receive the item.
Another forum member suggests established accounts only. Meaning you cant come in as a guest at the last minute......maybe have an account ready to go at the start of the year, or month, or even 5 days before release.........
They didn’t make it a full minute but congrats to your friend if they got in before that.
One ounce liberty bell available on mint website at 8:05 CDT.
Auctioning sounds reasonable but 6K items is a lot for an auction house to absorb. The marketplace houses do not have the retail coverage.
They could focus group the direct bulk retailers to establish reasonable pricing based on mintages, Then they would distribute through them but they may not get a consensus on pricing or commitment on quantities.
They are selling out this way but it will never be perceived as fair.
That's retailing, Congress may not approve at some point.
You just do a Dutch auction (there's different versions of this term). Everyone places a bid. If there are 2000 coins, everyone pays what the 2000th highest bid is. It's only one lot bit with 2000 items in it.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
1) Pre-established account holders only
2) Let customers purchase the item within a specified period of time on one day (i.e. 5 hours from noon to 5pm).
3) Vet the purchasers for HHL violations, etc. (stuffing the ballot box)
4) Select the "winners" by allowing purchase to complete as normal -email notify. Non winners have authorization drop off their bills as normal.
Dont say lottery method or even a blind bid method doesnt work-----we did it in the 1970's with the GSA dollars!
GSA Sales - fill out a card at your Post Office.....with your minimum bid above the floor set by GSA.
Wait to find out if you will receive an item - your qty - or reduced at the lowest successful bid.
You could do this via online today - --just dont show the lowest bid until auction period is over and have a HHL qty limit and time limit.
After the first "bell release" everyone in the buyers' clubs would be registered account holders.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I suspect many will get returned by the bot flippers. Now the 1/2 gold is available.
Notwithstanding the snarly street fights some of our contentious "experts" have, as usual, contributed; this thread it has given us some useful information and good entertainment.
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me. . . . . . .
Not taking returns would probably stop or significantly slow many of the flippers who don't care about the coin/medals too
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700
I'll order one Silver Bell, and sign a waiver that I promise not to return it
When I logged in this morning, I got this
BUT - when you vet the winners - you throw out those with HHL/other violations - i.e. using same cc, duplicate addresses, etc. At least everyone has a chance to "enter".
Its not perfect......but this situation with the silver bells requires a remedy quick.
use the same BOT identification method to vet the winners......apparently they are throwing out 1000+ orders over the last 2 days.....they have some way of identifying the problem. They just cant stop it.
You're still going to have thousands of buyers' club members with registered accounts.
Only the auction eliminates any financial incentive to flip.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Bottom line:
20K for 1 oz is an unforced error.
Gov agencies aren't in the greed business. Cut the production cost or increase the mintage,
Probably. Although if they end up selling 1000, it's probably a win.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Sorry you are so sensitive.
Called "names"? Gullible? Not a name. A description. And I meant no offense.
In any event, with all the grace you are so anxious to dish out, you can never seem to bring yourself to acknowledge when anyone else is correct, because you are never wrong, since anything is always possible. Even when it really isn't.
Sorry you were having a bad day yesterday.
They are probably going to be forced with 75% returns on their first day shipments.
ATS=672 now on the 1 oz Gold.
The rememdy for them is to cut the price and issue refunds to those willing to keep the item.
Get it into the $6500 or less range and see them all go fast.
Interesting since I was let in at 12:00:10 and they were gone before I could put one in my cart at 12:00:15.
Otherwise they will be forced to accept a ton of product and have ATS of at least 1500+ in a week or two time.
Then they will backdoor out the 1500 for spot +500 to the big boys to clear the inventory once they get dusty - just like they did with the backlog of silver eagle proofs a few years ago
From the looks of the 1/2 oz posted pics - they dont look like they are free of defects.......
This ^^^. Exactly this. The Mint wants to be PAMP, but PAMP knows how to do this, and the Mint does not. When PAMP sells something like this, with similar mintages (Fendi, Barbie, How Wheels, etc.) they include elaborate packaging and custom holders molded to the shape of the coin. And manage to do so at a far lower price point.
The Mint, OTOH, takes its customers for granted. With good reason. Because, while most on this forum are somewhat discerning, the majority of the public, including the dealers who are ultimately reselling to the public, are not. So you either hold your nose, close your eyes, and play according to their rules, or you sit on the sidelines and criticize like me.
"Cook groups"? If so few are actually available, that would explain the insane secondary market prices, and might not be a great sign when the remaining half finally make it into someone's hands.
That's the weird thing as he said the 1/2 gold was gone on his end by 12:03 but I saw it available at 12:10
Collector
Over 100 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 57 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
Thank u!!!
Much appreciated!!!
Looks nicer in the pics than I expected.
It is truly unbelievable , given the cost and the supposed quality control.
I hope the bot protection gets better. I hope the people who have bought with the bots really get hosed if the orders get cancelled and they've already made deals for them.
It's amazing that the mint is not aware of this & working on improvements.
Sorry for so many posts...
I don't know anything about bots. Who has them?
What are cook groups?
Cook groupie are buyers' clubs.
Anyone, including you, can have a bot
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
No one is going to get hosed. If they can't fulfill, for reasons beyond their control, they will give refunds and be done with it. No one is going to get sued over the Mint canceling an order, and a reseller not going into the market to fulfill a sale at a loss.
Cook groups are different from buyers clubs. Cook groups are paid, private communities that focus on sharing tools, tips, etc. for people reselling limited-release products like sneakers, video game consoles, Pokemon, Supreme, or whatever is hot (they've targeted some coins in the past, like the 19XE). With a buyers club, people are sourcing the products for the club, but with a cook group, people are usually looking for an edge to source products for themselves (to flip).
To be fair, it's rare, and they are "working on improvements" by auditing and canceling the orders. In the past, they've done nothing, and several members here, when they were not victims, have defending the use of bots, and even claimed they don't violate the Mint's T&Cs. Because they are just "tools" used by actual people.
All this said, yes, if the Mint wants to starting emulating other, smaller, world and private mints, it can start curating lists of preferred customers that it could use to pre-sell rare things like this. The Perth and Royal Canadian mints have different, early order windows for hot items that customers get access to based on status that is based on hitting annual purchase thresholds.
That would flush out bots while provoking inequity claims from people who don't have thousands or tens of thousands to spend annually on Mint product, but who want equal access to hot items. To be honest, that is probably where the Mint is heading if they continue down the path of making bespoke items that can not be reliably distributed via the public website. Either that, or distributing exclusively through dealers at set prices, like they tried to do with the original ATB bullion pucks.
The coin was not just freely sliding around in the capsule. After I opened the capsule last night, I could see that the the coin was resting on some sort of clear rubber piece within the capsule (that you could not tell was there). That at least kept the coin from freely sliding but it was still moving around - I don't know what the rubber piece was...as I had not encountered it before - Now I wish I had taken a picture of that as well.
BST references available on request
Hopefully the rubber piece wasn't able to come in contact with the coin's surface.
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me. . . . . . .
Question about bots. Does the program run 24 hours a day or do you have to program the bot to execute at a particular time. If public knowledge knows that these are available daily at 0730, why doesn’t the mint simply change the availability time to 0725 or 0737 or any other random time to avoid bots. Of course this strategy does not work if the bots are running 24/7.
Bots can do multiple things in multiple ways
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
They can be running all the time scanning to see if the add to cart button suddenly appears - they can scan every few seconds
This BOT attack was different - someone has a way (maybe via API) to circumvent even the UI.......then it becomes super fast.
If the mint drops stock at a random time, page monitors can auto-ping the bot scripts to run faster than 99.9% of people will figure out that there is stock. The bottom line is that hitting these manually is virtually impossible.
Circumventing the UI has been the case for years. Bots haven't been clicking through each page of the checkout flow, if that's what you were thinking.
I took a closer look at the coin within its capsule. The coin rests on a highly flexible, rubberized plastic mat at the bottom. The top of the capsule features the same flexible material stretched across it. This design allows for slight inward movement into the voided space. In theory, this setup should cushion the coin and limit contact strictly to the edges to prevent sliding. Unfortunately, the material is too flexible. It allows the coin to slide around and frequently comes into contact with the coin's surfaces.
Regarding the edges of the coin, I examined them using 10x and 20x magnification loupes. There is a raised rim around the entirety of the coin. However, the height of this rim is highly inconsistent. Certain sections of the edge are noticeably higher than others along the exact same patch of the coin.
I've got pictures but unfortunately, they are camera phone pics...so the quality just does not convey through the pictures produced. Let me see if I can add some more pics. Hopefully, more will get their packages today and provide better quality than I can here.
BST references available on request