1965 Jefferson Nickel: Business Strike or SMS? Need your help
ricarf2386
Posts: 19 ✭
Hello everyone,
I’m back with another piece for discussion! Following my previous post about the 1962 cent, I want to thank you all for the amazing feedback. It was an incredible learning experience regarding axial lighting vs. true cameo.
Today, I would like to share a 1965 Jefferson Nickel that I recently acquired from a local collector here in Ecuador. It is in an exceptionally pristine, like-new condition.
In hand, under a standard incandescent light source, I can clearly observe a strong, sharp cartwheel luster when rotating the coin (the classic steering-wheel motion). The fields appear remarkably smooth and free of the usual heavy bag marks, and the primary focal points—specifically Jefferson's cheek, jaw, and profile—are incredibly clean for a non-SMS strike. The lettering edges also show the softer characteristics of a high-speed business strike production.
My technical assessment points toward an outstanding Business Strike (MS) candidate rather than an SMS piece. However, because a 1965 regular strike in elite tiers (MS-67/68) is such a monumental rarity, I am uploading these macro close-ups so you can apply your clinical eye.
I would love to read your opinions on the strike sharpness, die state, and whether you think this piece has a shot at a Top Pop grade. What do you think?
Thank you all for your time and expertise!
Comments
Not every coin you find is worthy of a discussion. A good rule of thumb is that if it is a coin you found, it is not a monumental rarity.
At your stage of collecting, you should not be thinking about submitting coins for top pop grades. Filling a Whitman folder would be much more appropriate.
The macro close-ups generally don't help. Think of it this way, if you would have a hard time interpreting the surfaces when you look at the images then we will have an even harder time. If I had to guess, which is what I have to do, I would guess it was from an SMS.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Thank you very much for your honest feedback, Tom. I highly value your perspective, especially since you all have the immense advantage of handling and analyzing top-tier coins every single day, which gives you an unmatched clinical eye.
I am aware that my current camera setup doesn't do justice to what I am seeing in hand. For my future posts, I am definitely planning to invest in a much better camera equipment to provide the high-quality, full-surface images that a proper grading discussion requires.
My goal is to stop guessing. That is why I have already planned to formally enroll in the American Numismatic Association (ANA) virtual courses very soon to get properly trained and specialized under official standards. Thank you again for your time and guidance.
it has the look of an sms coin
the marks on the obverse of the coin hold it back from being a high grade
it is not deep cameo or cameo. if it were a business strike coin it would not be said to have full steps on monticello
as a mid-grade coin without any special features like cam or dcam or fs, it is another nice looking coin that isn't worth grading. as an mention: for such a coin but in higher grades it would be worth more as a NOT sms coin. sms coins came in a hard plastic holder that protected them. business strike coins wee out in the mass of people getting marks on them. so it is harder to find a high grade not sms coin than a sms coin
the first few close up photos are way too grainy to show anything
Thank you for your very respectful and deeply technical analysis, I truly appreciate it.
I want to clarify that during my research, I have taken the time to thoroughly study high-grade specimens—specifically SMS SP-69 examples in official databases. To my surprise, many of those SP-69 coins actually display noticeable bag marks on Jefferson's face and do not even feature a complete Full Steps definition on the Monticello reverse.
When I evaluate my coin in hand under proper lighting, it shows a level of surface preservation that superiorly challenges those examples. The profile and primary focal points are remarkably free of those face hits, and the fields are exceptionally clean.
I understand that my current camera setup doesn't capture the true tridimensional depth or the cartwheel luster I see in person. But since it does not have those face marks and the surfaces are so clean, I believe it stands on its own merit based on these physical traits. Thank you again for such a brilliant discussion!
Posting unremarkable and mediocre coins and asking for advice and then ignoring that advice because you believe your coin to be special while translating everything into AI slop is going to get old quickly.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
You are absolutely right. I am indeed using AI, which is an incredibly important tool in this day and age, especially for interacting with people from other countries.
Years ago, it would have been nearly impossible for an Ecuadorian collector to engage with people of your status or expertise, simply because of the language barrier. Today, technology allows us to bridge that gap.
I sincerely appreciate your feedback nonetheless, and I apologize if my posts have caused you any frustration.
Tell him that his words are like gold nuggets and his personality sparkles like a diamond; that will win him over for sure.
I am wrapping this up and will not be replying to any more comments on this thread. I truly thank you all for your feedback.
I will not be uploading another post until I hold in my hand a true numismatic gem that traveled all the way from your country to Ecuador. I am talking about a 2010 Presidential Dollar with a 2011 edge lettering mule date error, a 90-degree rotated die error, weighing exactly 7.7g, and with several other technical errors that are currently being processed at ANACS. Once I have that piece officially certified, I will publish a new post.
Thank you all very much. A huge hug to everyone who makes up this PCGS forum. And just to be clear: these final words were not thought up by an AI.
as far as coins in CoinFacts that are graded 69 but with noticeable marks, there are 2 things to be said
"Mistakes Have Been Made"
and
there is a saying: "Buy the coin, not the holder"
both of those are SP67DCAM coins
the second one is the featured coin on CoinFacts. it is clearly not a 67, and definitely not fs despite being a sms coin. the dcam on the reverse is also weaker.
we are aware some coins are over graded. don't compare yours to an over graded coin and say mine is a point higher at least. survey a lot of coins to get an idea
The intent of the Mint when issuing SMS coins was to confuse collectors and thwart hoarders. This thread, more than 60 years later is proof that they succeeded.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin