@Project Numismatics said:
Demand is there for now, dealers are already offering to buy at well above issue price and eBay solds further support.
It doesn’t take much mass market promotion to create enough demand to sell out such a low mintage.
What dealers? At what prices?
Pinehurst is my usual go-to for reputable buy offers on hot Mint releases. They have not yet published anything for these, to my knowledge.
I'm not sure what to make of Pure. Again, where are people getting product to complete sales? If nowhere, then they are not real. I remember someone got their hands on a lot of High Relief Gold coins last year via the back door at the Mint and offered them on Pure, and then here. They magically appeared back on the Mint website after there were no takers.
So, does someone actually have something to sell there, or is it another eBay? TBD.
I think you’d really benefit from attending ANA summer seminar or some of the major shows (e.g. FUN). There’s a whole world out there!
Okay. Now back to the question -- what dealers and what prices?
I can’t violate T&Cs to satisfy your curiosity.
You’re operating in the. “don’t know what I don’t know” space with respect to the coin market but not willing to learn.
Yes. T&Cs. Can't exchange information.
Great, so don't hint at things you can't discuss. Easy peasy.
Someone wants to buy, but you can't disclose? Because, T&Cs? Since when? Sounds like nonsense to me.
Nothing in the BST forum either. Nothing, even though I don't think something like this, pre-release would be limited to that pursuant to "T&Cs."
In any event, feels like you are gaslighting me. I don't care about "don’t know what I don’t know.”
I'll stick with what I see with my lyin' eyes, and discount your "I can’t violate T&Cs to satisfy your curiosity" after you confidently say "dealers are already offering to buy at well above issue price."
Don't say it if you can't talk about it. Otherwise, it does not exist.
Not T&C here or on BST - T&C of the various dealer sites and distribution lists which are invite and/or subscription only and do not permit reposting elsewhere.
Again, you’re speaking to things you don’t know. Strongly suggest you educate yourself if you want to have a meaningful opinion.
To be fair, your posting of anonymous offers with no details has little probative value and does lead to suspicion.
Sounds like you agree with @NJCoin and that these have no demand since you don’t believe any dealers have bids out on these. Guess we will find out very soon!
For as often as we are reminded about your dealer experience, would have thought you’d have seen some bids on these. But guess not.
That's a completely illogical non sequitur. I said no such thing and I think I've pushed more than enough arguments with NJ for a more correct understanding of my position to be easily determined.
As for my bids, they are secret like yours. Lol. Kidding aside, i am not making bids on these because they would be useless. At 2000 units, the people making locks are unlikely to be able to fulfill and more likely to back out if the price is higher.
This is exactly what I've been saying. Thanks for the support, but only to defend yourself.
The bids are all BS, because the bidders are only setting themselves up to be picked off if they bid high. If they bid low, they get nothing. If the seller sells low, the buy gets nothing.
The pre-sales for this are meaningless, unless you have a large dealer with a sterling reputation willing to take a big financial hit if things don't work out as expected. And no large dealer is going to set themselves up to be granting one way options either way here. Which is why the only things we are seeing are anonymous.
Again, I don't know Pure, but eBay is all low feedback sellers. A Pure was sketchy with the "dealer" trying to flip High Relief gold coins that ended up back at the Mint when the flip didn't work out. No reputable dealer operates like that. People here in the "swamp," taking shots on the Mint's dime, do that.
The difference is that I recognize that people are making legitimate offers. Just because i choose not to be one of them doesn't mean they don't exist.
But, are they? I'm saying it does not make sense to do so, for the reasons you are choosing not to.
So the bidders are either stupid, or the offers are phantom. Because unless people KNOW they will be getting inventory, people hitting those bids cannot guarantee performance. And the dealers know that.
So what's in it for them to put out bids? Why aren't you? Suddenly allergic to money?
@NJCoin said:
Whatever. But when their buy offers are super secret, insider only offers subject to NDAs, they don't really exist, since real buyers want their buy offers disseminated far and wide.
Because "most dealers" who "won't mingle in the swamp" don't actually have much of a business, do they? Certainly not retail, since that is, pretty much by definition, the swamp.
In the past when the mint did not allow dealers an allotted amount, it helped the aftermarket prices, especially when there was an HHL of only one is involved. You seem to be overlooking that.
These will be well distributed to as many buyers as possible due to the HHL. Many will likely not sell.
You also flip-flopped on the silver and now are in agreement with me. One down, two to go.
PS Some dealers might be hoping these don't sell out so they lift the HHL and can buy up what is left. We find out soon enough.
I haven't "flip-flopped" on anything. I'm only saying people like you are clearly in a frenzy, so it's pretty clear you will be slamming to website tomorrow looking for a score. Not to add a half ounce of silver to your collection, but for a flip.
TBD whether the flip will be there. Seriously.
If half ounces of gold sit unloved at $10K, the people you hope to flip to might question the wisdom of sinking $2K+ into a half ounce of silver. Then where will you be?
Probably filling out your Mint return labels, en masse. Plenty of time to take a victory lap next week if you turn out to be right. No need to jump the gun, or claim a flip-flop.
I'm not going anywhere, and will happily admit I was wrong if the silvers settle in at $2K when the dust settles. I've done it before, and will almost certainly be doing it again.
Will you be doing the same if the golds don't sell out, as is looking increasingly likely?
Why is $2k the standard? Aren't you still wrong if $900 is the price of settles at?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@morgansforever said:
They could've made the 1/2 oz. silver a full oz., this is commemorating 250 years free from the crown, plus it's $750, jmo. If I were Mint director it would've been a full oz.
Size matters. It may not be as easy as you think
Nonsense. They figured out how to make an ounce of gold.
I promise you, they realized what they were doing with the mintage, apparently corrected figured people would get hot and bothered regardless, and then just cut another corner, as with so many other things in recent memory.
If they sell out, as it appears they will, they saved themselves $60K in silver expense and cost themselves nothing in sales. Yet another reason people should have no interest in these, but like Pavlovian dogs, they can't help themselves.
Just check out the Coin World article on what Minted Assets has planned for the ANA show. Far more interesting and beautiful than anything the US Mint is putting out this year. At a fraction of the mintage, and presumably a fraction of the cost. But not a US Mint monopoly product, so just a fraction of the interest. really calls into question the value of what the US Mint is selling.
Density difference. The oune of silver would be bigger than the ounce of gold.
So what? Do you really think that's what's driving it?
Might be. Why else? It's not like the extra half ounce of silver adds much cost. They couldn't use normal production methods. There very well might have been a limit to the size they could handle with the method they used.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@NJCoin said:
Whatever. But when their buy offers are super secret, insider only offers subject to NDAs, they don't really exist, since real buyers want their buy offers disseminated far and wide.
Because "most dealers" who "won't mingle in the swamp" don't actually have much of a business, do they? Certainly not retail, since that is, pretty much by definition, the swamp.
In the past when the mint did not allow dealers an allotted amount, it helped the aftermarket prices, especially when there was an HHL of only one is involved. You seem to be overlooking that.
These will be well distributed to as many buyers as possible due to the HHL. Many will likely not sell.
You also flip-flopped on the silver and now are in agreement with me. One down, two to go.
PS Some dealers might be hoping these don't sell out so they lift the HHL and can buy up what is left. We find out soon enough.
I haven't "flip-flopped" on anything. I'm only saying people like you are clearly in a frenzy, so it's pretty clear you will be slamming to website tomorrow looking for a score. Not to add a half ounce of silver to your collection, but for a flip.
TBD whether the flip will be there. Seriously.
If half ounces of gold sit unloved at $10K, the people you hope to flip to might question the wisdom of sinking $2K+ into a half ounce of silver. Then where will you be?
Probably filling out your Mint return labels, en masse. Plenty of time to take a victory lap next week if you turn out to be right. No need to jump the gun, or claim a flip-flop.
I'm not going anywhere, and will happily admit I was wrong if the silvers settle in at $2K when the dust settles. I've done it before, and will almost certainly be doing it again.
Will you be doing the same if the golds don't sell out, as is looking increasingly likely?
Why is $2k the standard? Aren't you still wrong if $900 is the price of settles at?
No. If they are not at least a double, they are not a flip worth chasing with this mintage.
Pick nits all you want, but if they go to $900, they are as likely to go to $600. You can argue about angels on heads of pins. I am looking big picture.
These will either be $2K+ or they won't. People are comparing them to $6K FH silver privies, not Congratulations sets.
@Project Numismatics said:
Demand is there for now, dealers are already offering to buy at well above issue price and eBay solds further support.
It doesn’t take much mass market promotion to create enough demand to sell out such a low mintage.
What dealers? At what prices?
Pinehurst is my usual go-to for reputable buy offers on hot Mint releases. They have not yet published anything for these, to my knowledge.
I'm not sure what to make of Pure. Again, where are people getting product to complete sales? If nowhere, then they are not real. I remember someone got their hands on a lot of High Relief Gold coins last year via the back door at the Mint and offered them on Pure, and then here. They magically appeared back on the Mint website after there were no takers.
So, does someone actually have something to sell there, or is it another eBay? TBD.
I think you’d really benefit from attending ANA summer seminar or some of the major shows (e.g. FUN). There’s a whole world out there!
Okay. Now back to the question -- what dealers and what prices?
I can’t violate T&Cs to satisfy your curiosity.
You’re operating in the. “don’t know what I don’t know” space with respect to the coin market but not willing to learn.
Yes. T&Cs. Can't exchange information.
Great, so don't hint at things you can't discuss. Easy peasy.
Someone wants to buy, but you can't disclose? Because, T&Cs? Since when? Sounds like nonsense to me.
Nothing in the BST forum either. Nothing, even though I don't think something like this, pre-release would be limited to that pursuant to "T&Cs."
In any event, feels like you are gaslighting me. I don't care about "don’t know what I don’t know.”
I'll stick with what I see with my lyin' eyes, and discount your "I can’t violate T&Cs to satisfy your curiosity" after you confidently say "dealers are already offering to buy at well above issue price."
Don't say it if you can't talk about it. Otherwise, it does not exist.
Not T&C here or on BST - T&C of the various dealer sites and distribution lists which are invite and/or subscription only and do not permit reposting elsewhere.
Again, you’re speaking to things you don’t know. Strongly suggest you educate yourself if you want to have a meaningful opinion.
To be fair, your posting of anonymous offers with no details has little probative value and does lead to suspicion.
Sounds like you agree with @NJCoin and that these have no demand since you don’t believe any dealers have bids out on these. Guess we will find out very soon!
For as often as we are reminded about your dealer experience, would have thought you’d have seen some bids on these. But guess not.
That's a completely illogical non sequitur. I said no such thing and I think I've pushed more than enough arguments with NJ for a more correct understanding of my position to be easily determined.
As for my bids, they are secret like yours. Lol. Kidding aside, i am not making bids on these because they would be useless. At 2000 units, the people making locks are unlikely to be able to fulfill and more likely to back out if the price is higher.
This is exactly what I've been saying. Thanks for the support, but only to defend yourself.
The bids are all BS, because the bidders are only setting themselves up to be picked off if they bid high. If they bid low, they get nothing. If the seller sells low, the buy gets nothing.
The pre-sales for this are meaningless, unless you have a large dealer with a sterling reputation willing to take a big financial hit if things don't work out as expected. And no large dealer is going to set themselves up to be granting one way options either way here. Which is why the only things we are seeing are anonymous.
Again, I don't know Pure, but eBay is all low feedback sellers. A Pure was sketchy with the "dealer" trying to flip High Relief gold coins that ended up back at the Mint when the flip didn't work out. No reputable dealer operates like that. People here in the "swamp," taking shots on the Mint's dime, do that.
The difference is that I recognize that people are making legitimate offers. Just because i choose not to be one of them doesn't mean they don't exist.
But, are they? I'm saying it does not make sense to do so, for the reasons you are choosing not to.
So the bidders are either stupid, or the offers are phantom. Because unless people KNOW they will be getting inventory, people hitting those bids cannot guarantee performance. And the dealers know that.
So what's in it for them to put out bids? Why aren't you? Suddenly allergic to money?
I told you why I wasn't putting out bids. There are legitimate bids out there on PURE and PFS.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@NJCoin said:
Whatever. But when their buy offers are super secret, insider only offers subject to NDAs, they don't really exist, since real buyers want their buy offers disseminated far and wide.
Because "most dealers" who "won't mingle in the swamp" don't actually have much of a business, do they? Certainly not retail, since that is, pretty much by definition, the swamp.
In the past when the mint did not allow dealers an allotted amount, it helped the aftermarket prices, especially when there was an HHL of only one is involved. You seem to be overlooking that.
These will be well distributed to as many buyers as possible due to the HHL. Many will likely not sell.
You also flip-flopped on the silver and now are in agreement with me. One down, two to go.
PS Some dealers might be hoping these don't sell out so they lift the HHL and can buy up what is left. We find out soon enough.
I haven't "flip-flopped" on anything. I'm only saying people like you are clearly in a frenzy, so it's pretty clear you will be slamming to website tomorrow looking for a score. Not to add a half ounce of silver to your collection, but for a flip.
TBD whether the flip will be there. Seriously.
If half ounces of gold sit unloved at $10K, the people you hope to flip to might question the wisdom of sinking $2K+ into a half ounce of silver. Then where will you be?
Probably filling out your Mint return labels, en masse. Plenty of time to take a victory lap next week if you turn out to be right. No need to jump the gun, or claim a flip-flop.
I'm not going anywhere, and will happily admit I was wrong if the silvers settle in at $2K when the dust settles. I've done it before, and will almost certainly be doing it again.
Will you be doing the same if the golds don't sell out, as is looking increasingly likely?
Why is $2k the standard? Aren't you still wrong if $900 is the price of settles at?
No. If they are not at least a double, they are not a flip worth chasing with this mintage.
Pick nits all you want, but if they go to $900, they are as likely to go to $600. You can argue about angels on heads of pins. I am looking big picture.
These will either be $2K+ or they won't. People are comparing them to $6K FH silver privies, not Congratulations sets.
Really?
Lol.
But you were saying they wouldn't even sell out.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@morgansforever said:
They could've made the 1/2 oz. silver a full oz., this is commemorating 250 years free from the crown, plus it's $750, jmo. If I were Mint director it would've been a full oz.
Size matters. It may not be as easy as you think
Nonsense. They figured out how to make an ounce of gold.
I promise you, they realized what they were doing with the mintage, apparently corrected figured people would get hot and bothered regardless, and then just cut another corner, as with so many other things in recent memory.
If they sell out, as it appears they will, they saved themselves $60K in silver expense and cost themselves nothing in sales. Yet another reason people should have no interest in these, but like Pavlovian dogs, they can't help themselves.
Just check out the Coin World article on what Minted Assets has planned for the ANA show. Far more interesting and beautiful than anything the US Mint is putting out this year. At a fraction of the mintage, and presumably a fraction of the cost. But not a US Mint monopoly product, so just a fraction of the interest. really calls into question the value of what the US Mint is selling.
Density difference. The oune of silver would be bigger than the ounce of gold.
So what? Do you really think that's what's driving it?
Might be. Why else? It's not like the extra half ounce of silver adds much cost. They couldn't use normal production methods. There very well might have been a limit to the size they could handle with the method they used.
Understood. It's also not like a decent box for a $124.50 set containing $6 worth of pocket change would add much cost either.
The Mint is now charging as much as it can, and is also squeezing costs wherever possible. I'm honestly a little surprised it has any silver at all, given how much they are charging and as little silver as it has. But I guess they thought there would really be backlash if they tried that.
Just my guess, but I am confident they could have figured out how to do in silver what they did in gold if they wanted to. As they always seem to do.
In fact, it's the gold that is usually light, due to the cost of the metal, not production constraints in working with a whopping full ounce of anything. But thanks for your contribution in the continuing series of "anything at all is possible."
@morgansforever said:
They could've made the 1/2 oz. silver a full oz., this is commemorating 250 years free from the crown, plus it's $750, jmo. If I were Mint director it would've been a full oz.
Size matters. It may not be as easy as you think
Nonsense. They figured out how to make an ounce of gold.
I promise you, they realized what they were doing with the mintage, apparently corrected figured people would get hot and bothered regardless, and then just cut another corner, as with so many other things in recent memory.
If they sell out, as it appears they will, they saved themselves $60K in silver expense and cost themselves nothing in sales. Yet another reason people should have no interest in these, but like Pavlovian dogs, they can't help themselves.
Just check out the Coin World article on what Minted Assets has planned for the ANA show. Far more interesting and beautiful than anything the US Mint is putting out this year. At a fraction of the mintage, and presumably a fraction of the cost. But not a US Mint monopoly product, so just a fraction of the interest. really calls into question the value of what the US Mint is selling.
Density difference. The oune of silver would be bigger than the ounce of gold.
So what? Do you really think that's what's driving it?
Might be. Why else? It's not like the extra half ounce of silver adds much cost. They couldn't use normal production methods. There very well might have been a limit to the size they could handle with the method they used.
Understood. It's also not like a decent box for a $124.50 set containing $6 worth of pocket change would add much cost either.
The Mint is now charging as much as it can, and is also squeezing costs wherever possible. I'm honestly a little surprised it has any silver at all, given how much they are charging and as little silver as it has. But I guess they thought there would really be backlash if they tried that.
Just my guess, but I am confident they could have figured out how to do in silver what they did in gold if they wanted to. As they always seem to do.
In fact, it's the gold that is usually light, due to the cost of the metal, not production constraints in working with a whopping full ounce of anything. But thanks for your contribution in the continuing series of "anything at all is possible."
Actually, I proposed one reasonable suggestion, not "anything". But, I'm going to go easy on you are about to have a very busy week.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@NJCoin said:
Whatever. But when their buy offers are super secret, insider only offers subject to NDAs, they don't really exist, since real buyers want their buy offers disseminated far and wide.
Because "most dealers" who "won't mingle in the swamp" don't actually have much of a business, do they? Certainly not retail, since that is, pretty much by definition, the swamp.
In the past when the mint did not allow dealers an allotted amount, it helped the aftermarket prices, especially when there was an HHL of only one is involved. You seem to be overlooking that.
These will be well distributed to as many buyers as possible due to the HHL. Many will likely not sell.
You also flip-flopped on the silver and now are in agreement with me. One down, two to go.
PS Some dealers might be hoping these don't sell out so they lift the HHL and can buy up what is left. We find out soon enough.
I haven't "flip-flopped" on anything. I'm only saying people like you are clearly in a frenzy, so it's pretty clear you will be slamming to website tomorrow looking for a score. Not to add a half ounce of silver to your collection, but for a flip.
TBD whether the flip will be there. Seriously.
If half ounces of gold sit unloved at $10K, the people you hope to flip to might question the wisdom of sinking $2K+ into a half ounce of silver. Then where will you be?
Probably filling out your Mint return labels, en masse. Plenty of time to take a victory lap next week if you turn out to be right. No need to jump the gun, or claim a flip-flop.
I'm not going anywhere, and will happily admit I was wrong if the silvers settle in at $2K when the dust settles. I've done it before, and will almost certainly be doing it again.
Will you be doing the same if the golds don't sell out, as is looking increasingly likely?
Why is $2k the standard? Aren't you still wrong if $900 is the price of settles at?
No. If they are not at least a double, they are not a flip worth chasing with this mintage.
Pick nits all you want, but if they go to $900, they are as likely to go to $600. You can argue about angels on heads of pins. I am looking big picture.
These will either be $2K+ or they won't. People are comparing them to $6K FH silver privies, not Congratulations sets.
Really?
Lol.
But you were saying they wouldn't even sell out.
Yes. The action, the talk, the eBay pumping, PFS offer, etc., has made it clear that people will be taking shots for $750.
I still think it's crap. That won't change. But it's pretty clear flippers will be trying to flip.
So, the goal posts have moved. The question now is whether, if a half ounce gold coin sits unloved at $10K, as it increasing appears as though it will, and certainly the one ounce at $20K will not be selling out, given the absolute lack of chatter and increasing awareness that there will be no flip at that price, will a half ounce silver medal find a market at what these folks hope to get? If not, then at what price? $1500? $900? $750?
I honestly don't think anyone pumping here thinks they are a long term hold at $750. Or that anyone really wants them at any price due to their unique shape and beauty, simply due to their freakishly low mintage. As far as I'm concerned, if you like them, they'd be a "nice to have" at around $100, regardless of the mintage. No more.
So then, as with the Congratulations sets, what happens if 2K people don't really want them at all after 10K people slam the website chasing a flip? The 200 on Pure go to TV, where they try to sell them for $4K? What about everyone else? We've seen "legitimate" buy offers suddenly disappear before.
Maybe this becomes a thing, like the auctions. Maybe not.
Sorry, but I see a lot less value here than in $150 Hot Wheels being peddled by PAMP. And I also think those are hot garbage.
I'm really not impressed by what the Mint seems to want to turn into. Really calls into question the value and legitimacy of anything they produce. Trump coins, after what he tried to sell on TV after his second inauguration? Just like every other great nation that features an effigy of their beloved monarch on their money. TBD.
So then, as with the Congratulations sets, what happens if 2K people don't really want them at all after 10K people slam the website chasing a flip? The 200 on Pure go to TV, where they try to sell them for $4K? What about everyone else? We've seen "legitimate" buy offers suddenly disappear before.
This is why I am real hesitant to buy and flip. One of the regular buyers here, whom I had sold to before on several occasions, stiffed me on the BoM Dime set. He has sent out a very "wishy washy" offer for these - no $$ mentioned, just that he thinks they will be hot and that I/we should grab all we can and he would be happy to be the middle man. Not very enticing, especially since he bailed on me the previous time. Now I'm stuck with a coin I really don't want...
@NJCoin said:
So then, as with the Congratulations sets, what happens if 2K people don't really want them at all after 10K people slam the website chasing a flip? The 200 on Pure go to TV, where they try to sell them for $4K? What about everyone else? We've seen "legitimate" buy offers suddenly disappear before.
It is a lot harder to dry up all the inventory the flippers loaded on with the Congratulations sets at 60,000, than it is for one with barely 2000 and no dealer allotment, with a HHL of only one.
You flip-flopped on the silvers and now claim they will sell out, when you earlier said they would have no demand at all.The 1/2 ounce gold should sell out, being the lower price. many prefer the 1 ounce but it is not larger outer dimensions like with normal coins, so may not be such a factor here.
Multiple people have come forward and told you there are offers out there. Please accept reality. Just like you never accepted reality with the extra flowing hair silver medals, those missing 25,000 you claimed were struck by the mint. Are they still in Al Capones vault Lol
@mbogoman said: So then, as with the Congratulations sets, what happens if 2K people don't really want them at all after 10K people slam the website chasing a flip? The 200 on Pure go to TV, where they try to sell them for $4K? What about everyone else? We've seen "legitimate" buy offers suddenly disappear before.
This is why I am real hesitant to buy and flip. One of the regular buyers here, whom I had sold to before on several occasions, stiffed me on the BoM Dime set. He has sent out a very "wishy washy" offer for these - no $$ mentioned, just that he thinks they will be hot and that I/we should grab all we can and he would be happy to be the middle man. Not very enticing, especially since he bailed on me the previous time. Now I'm stuck with a coin I really don't want...
The advice, if you are comfortable doing it, is to return it to the Mint within 7 days of receipt if the flip doesn't develop. You might or might not have to pay return shipping, but that's your only real risk.
That, and the low mintage, is why people will apparently be killing themselves to take a perceived risk free shot. It's also why I have my doubts about actual demand for this. It's mostly a greater fool theory, where nobody actually wants them, but everyone thinks someone else will. At a significant premium. We'll see.
@NJCoin said:
So then, as with the Congratulations sets, what happens if 2K people don't really want them at all after 10K people slam the website chasing a flip? The 200 on Pure go to TV, where they try to sell them for $4K? What about everyone else? We've seen "legitimate" buy offers suddenly disappear before.
It is a lot harder to dry up all the inventory the flippers loaded on with the Congratulations sets at 60,000, than it is for one with barely 2000 and no dealer allotment, with a HHL of only one.
You flip-flopped on the silvers and now claim they will sell out, when you earlier said they would have no demand at all.The 1/2 ounce gold should sell out, being the lower price. many prefer the 1 ounce but it is not larger outer dimensions like with normal coins, so may not be such a factor here.
Multiple people have come forward and told you there are offers out there. Please accept reality. Just like you never accepted reality with the extra flowing hair silver medals, those missing 25,000 you claimed were struck by the mint. Are they still in Al Capones vault Lol
Only if 2K people actually want them. That's a huge TBD, since this is not part of any set, and the Mint has never done anything like this before. It is very similar to what the private mints do, slapping on some sovereign nation's name to turn it into the coinage you so know and love. But the Mint is doing it at a far higher price point.
The theory is that there is much more demand for US Mint product, so, as in Field of Dreams, if they make it, you will come. At whatever price they dictate. We'll see, since this is really no different than Hot Wheels, and if people see through that, they will be unwilling to pay up for these.
I'm glad you are staying in love with the half ounce gold. We'll see what you have to say about them tomorrow afternoon.
Not flip flopping, since I still think they are crap. It is just obvious that tons of people like you will chasing it. Let's see how many of you end up keeping them if you cannot profitably flip them.
Yes, "multiple people have come forward and told you there are offers out there." I have repeatedly explained why I discount them. If you cannot understand or accept what I am saying, I cannot help you with that.
No, the missing 25K FH silver medals are not in Al Capone's vault. Until they did it, it never occurred to me that the Mint would leave money on the table like that. Now I know better, and they are more than making up for it now, getting you to salivate over $1,500 per ounce silver shaped like a bell.
@mbogoman said: So then, as with the Congratulations sets, what happens if 2K people don't really want them at all after 10K people slam the website chasing a flip? The 200 on Pure go to TV, where they try to sell them for $4K? What about everyone else? We've seen "legitimate" buy offers suddenly disappear before.
This is why I am real hesitant to buy and flip. One of the regular buyers here, whom I had sold to before on several occasions, stiffed me on the BoM Dime set. He has sent out a very "wishy washy" offer for these - no $$ mentioned, just that he thinks they will be hot and that I/we should grab all we can and he would be happy to be the middle man. Not very enticing, especially since he bailed on me the previous time. Now I'm stuck with a coin I really don't want...
That sucks!! I'm pretty sure many of us know who you are talking about. I got the same "wishy washy" email and deleted it.
@mbogoman said: So then, as with the Congratulations sets, what happens if 2K people don't really want them at all after 10K people slam the website chasing a flip? The 200 on Pure go to TV, where they try to sell them for $4K? What about everyone else? We've seen "legitimate" buy offers suddenly disappear before.
This is why I am real hesitant to buy and flip. One of the regular buyers here, whom I had sold to before on several occasions, stiffed me on the BoM Dime set. He has sent out a very "wishy washy" offer for these - no $$ mentioned, just that he thinks they will be hot and that I/we should grab all we can and he would be happy to be the middle man. Not very enticing, especially since he bailed on me the previous time. Now I'm stuck with a coin I really don't want...
I would never do business with that person again. Once trust is broken, it is very hard to rebuild.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Remember when I said earlier that even if proven wrong he will just make things up to say he’s not wrong?? 😆 We’re seeing it live and in person as we speak. Somehow he started at “these (even silvers) will not sell out, total flop” to “these (silvers) have to sell at above $2,000 in the secondary market to not be a flop” in just a few pages. Next progression will be “those aren’t real offers or sales” if they do go for over $2,000. It’s comical really.
Remember when I said earlier that even if proven wrong he will just make things up to say he’s not wrong?? 😆 We’re seeing it live and in person as we speak. Somehow he started at “these (even silvers) will not sell out, total flop” to “these (silvers) have to sell at above $2,000 in the secondary market to not be a flop” in just a few pages. Next progression will be “those aren’t real offers or sales” if they do go for over $2,000. It’s comical really.
Not making anything up. Not even saying I wasn't wrong. Just saying you guys are jumping the gun. A bunch of people buying to sell to others doesn't mean there will be others interested in buying.
Get back to me 7 days after these are received. If there are a bunch of eBay completed sales at $1500+ then, and nothing ends up being returned to the Mint, I will admit I was wrong.
Until then, it is just you and your buddies chomping at the bit to say I told you so. No mention of the golds that will sit unloved, or any recognition of the possibility that might cause people to question the value of silver medals at inflated prices over an inflated issue price.
Right now, it's just a ton or people excited over a perceived risk free opportunity to make some money. Not a ton of people excited over a beautiful new unique issue from the Mint.
Just listen to yourself, and all the other chatter. This is unlike anything else the Mint has ever released. And no one cares about anything other than the flip potential. Not sure why that is not a big red flag to you.
Maybe you are right. We'll see. But things rarely work out for people chasing things for no reason other than they think other people will chase them. People chasing the SpaceX IPO learned that in only a few short weeks.
I don't get why the validity of ebay pre-sales is even a discussion. I've been selling on ebay for 20 years. The presales are real and the demand is real. (Of course some ppl may choose to game system but that is not really relevant.) Wholesale dismissal of that is delusional. Not saying that wont peter our somewhat. The presales are akin to pre/post-market movement on a stock after earnings announcement. Wont necessarily hold but absolutely is the best current market indicator.
I can pretty much guarantee that the silver medal will not sell for less than 1500+ on ebay day of release, but I expect even higher amounts easily.
Remember when I said earlier that even if proven wrong he will just make things up to say he’s not wrong?? 😆 We’re seeing it live and in person as we speak. Somehow he started at “these (even silvers) will not sell out, total flop” to “these (silvers) have to sell at above $2,000 in the secondary market to not be a flop” in just a few pages. Next progression will be “those aren’t real offers or sales” if they do go for over $2,000. It’s comical really.
Not making anything up. Not even saying I wasn't wrong. Just saying you guys are jumping the gun. A bunch of people buying to sell to others doesn't mean there will be others interested in buying.
Get back to me 7 days after these are received. If there are a bunch of eBay completed sales at $1500+ then, and nothing ends up being returned to the Mint, I will admit I was wrong.
Until then, it is just you and your buddies chomping at the bit to say I told you so. No mention of the golds that will sit unloved, or any recognition of the possibility that might cause people to question the value of silver medals at inflated prices over an inflated issue price.
Right now, it's just a ton or people excited over a perceived risk free opportunity to make some money. Not a ton of people excited over a beautiful new unique issue from the Mint.
Just listen to yourself, and all the other chatter. This is unlike anything else the Mint has ever released. And no one cares about anything other than the flip potential. Not sure why that is not a big red flag to you.
Maybe you are right. We'll see. But things rarely work out for people chasing things for no reason other than they think other people will chase them. People chasing the SpaceX IPO learned that in only a few short weeks.
I think your real problem is that you hate flippers and it skews your brain into immediately dismissing anything they are involved in as not real. Even with your SpaceX IPO example, the flippers could have made a lot of money if they bought the IPO and flipped it a few days later.
@engmtic said:
I don't get why the validity of ebay pre-sales is even a discussion. I've been selling on ebay for 20 years. The presales are real and the demand is real. (Of course some ppl may choose to game system but that is not really relevant.) Wholesale dismissal of that is delusional. Not saying that wont peter our somewhat. The presales are akin to pre/post-market movement on a stock after earnings announcement. Wont necessarily hold but absolutely is the best current market indicator.
I can pretty much guarantee that the silver medal will not sell for less than 1500+ on ebay day of release, but I expect even higher amounts easily.
Because, with something like this, where absolutely no one knows whether or not they will have anything to sell, the "vailidity of eBay pre-sales" is a very real question. Period.
No comparison at all the a regulated stock market. Not "akin" to anything. Neither side to an eBay pre-sale has to perform. And one side of another is almost certain to back out, depending on what happens at release. So the transactions are indicative of nothing. Nothing at all.
Show me pre-sales from known large dealers with known sources of inventory, who are willing to take a financial hit if the aftermarket prices exceed the pre-sale prices, and you'll be showing me something real. Not "confirmed order" pre-sales from people with low feedback counts when we all know there are no confirmed orders to date. Those are utter BS. Which is "why the validity of ebay pre-sales is even a discussion."
Remember when I said earlier that even if proven wrong he will just make things up to say he’s not wrong?? 😆 We’re seeing it live and in person as we speak. Somehow he started at “these (even silvers) will not sell out, total flop” to “these (silvers) have to sell at above $2,000 in the secondary market to not be a flop” in just a few pages. Next progression will be “those aren’t real offers or sales” if they do go for over $2,000. It’s comical really.
Not making anything up. Not even saying I wasn't wrong. Just saying you guys are jumping the gun. A bunch of people buying to sell to others doesn't mean there will be others interested in buying.
Get back to me 7 days after these are received. If there are a bunch of eBay completed sales at $1500+ then, and nothing ends up being returned to the Mint, I will admit I was wrong.
Until then, it is just you and your buddies chomping at the bit to say I told you so. No mention of the golds that will sit unloved, or any recognition of the possibility that might cause people to question the value of silver medals at inflated prices over an inflated issue price.
Right now, it's just a ton or people excited over a perceived risk free opportunity to make some money. Not a ton of people excited over a beautiful new unique issue from the Mint.
Just listen to yourself, and all the other chatter. This is unlike anything else the Mint has ever released. And no one cares about anything other than the flip potential. Not sure why that is not a big red flag to you.
Maybe you are right. We'll see. But things rarely work out for people chasing things for no reason other than they think other people will chase them. People chasing the SpaceX IPO learned that in only a few short weeks.
I think your real problem is that you hate flippers and it skews your brain into immediately dismissing anything they are involved in as not real. Even with your SpaceX IPO example, the flippers could have made a lot of money if they bought the IPO and flipped it a few days later.
I flipped the SpaceEx IPO at 195 even though it earned me a 60 day ban on IPOs. Lol.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Remember when I said earlier that even if proven wrong he will just make things up to say he’s not wrong?? 😆 We’re seeing it live and in person as we speak. Somehow he started at “these (even silvers) will not sell out, total flop” to “these (silvers) have to sell at above $2,000 in the secondary market to not be a flop” in just a few pages. Next progression will be “those aren’t real offers or sales” if they do go for over $2,000. It’s comical really.
Not making anything up. Not even saying I wasn't wrong. Just saying you guys are jumping the gun. A bunch of people buying to sell to others doesn't mean there will be others interested in buying.
Get back to me 7 days after these are received. If there are a bunch of eBay completed sales at $1500+ then, and nothing ends up being returned to the Mint, I will admit I was wrong.
Until then, it is just you and your buddies chomping at the bit to say I told you so. No mention of the golds that will sit unloved, or any recognition of the possibility that might cause people to question the value of silver medals at inflated prices over an inflated issue price.
Right now, it's just a ton or people excited over a perceived risk free opportunity to make some money. Not a ton of people excited over a beautiful new unique issue from the Mint.
Just listen to yourself, and all the other chatter. This is unlike anything else the Mint has ever released. And no one cares about anything other than the flip potential. Not sure why that is not a big red flag to you.
Maybe you are right. We'll see. But things rarely work out for people chasing things for no reason other than they think other people will chase them. People chasing the SpaceX IPO learned that in only a few short weeks.
I think your real problem is that you hate flippers and it skews your brain into immediately dismissing anything they are involved in as not real. Even with your SpaceX IPO example, the flippers could have made a lot of money if they bought the IPO and flipped it a few days later.
Nope. I don't hate anyone. Trust me, very few SpaceX flippers "made a lot of money." Most are probably still holding. If not, it will be the last IPO their brokers ever give them.
If this turns out to be a great flip, great. As I have been saying, I just don't see it. Everyone wants to sell. I don't see anyone buying, other than to sell to others.
Remember when I said earlier that even if proven wrong he will just make things up to say he’s not wrong?? 😆 We’re seeing it live and in person as we speak. Somehow he started at “these (even silvers) will not sell out, total flop” to “these (silvers) have to sell at above $2,000 in the secondary market to not be a flop” in just a few pages. Next progression will be “those aren’t real offers or sales” if they do go for over $2,000. It’s comical really.
Not making anything up. Not even saying I wasn't wrong. Just saying you guys are jumping the gun. A bunch of people buying to sell to others doesn't mean there will be others interested in buying.
Get back to me 7 days after these are received. If there are a bunch of eBay completed sales at $1500+ then, and nothing ends up being returned to the Mint, I will admit I was wrong.
Until then, it is just you and your buddies chomping at the bit to say I told you so. No mention of the golds that will sit unloved, or any recognition of the possibility that might cause people to question the value of silver medals at inflated prices over an inflated issue price.
Right now, it's just a ton or people excited over a perceived risk free opportunity to make some money. Not a ton of people excited over a beautiful new unique issue from the Mint.
Just listen to yourself, and all the other chatter. This is unlike anything else the Mint has ever released. And no one cares about anything other than the flip potential. Not sure why that is not a big red flag to you.
Maybe you are right. We'll see. But things rarely work out for people chasing things for no reason other than they think other people will chase them. People chasing the SpaceX IPO learned that in only a few short weeks.
I think your real problem is that you hate flippers and it skews your brain into immediately dismissing anything they are involved in as not real. Even with your SpaceX IPO example, the flippers could have made a lot of money if they bought the IPO and flipped it a few days later.
I flipped the SpaceEx IPO at 195 even though it earned me a 60 day ban on IPOs. Lol.
Good for you. Please report back after your 60 day ban is over. It might last a lot longer than you think.
@engmtic said:
I don't get why the validity of ebay pre-sales is even a discussion. I've been selling on ebay for 20 years. The presales are real and the demand is real. (Of course some ppl may choose to game system but that is not really relevant.) Wholesale dismissal of that is delusional. Not saying that wont peter our somewhat. The presales are akin to pre/post-market movement on a stock after earnings announcement. Wont necessarily hold but absolutely is the best current market indicator.
I can pretty much guarantee that the silver medal will not sell for less than 1500+ on ebay day of release, but I expect even higher amounts easily.
Because, with something like this, where absolutely no one knows whether or not they will have anything to sell, the "vailidity of eBay pre-sales" is a very real question. Period.
No comparison at all the a regulated stock market. Not "akin" to anything. Neither side to an eBay pre-sale has to perform. And one side of another is almost certain to back out, depending on what happens at release. So the transactions are indicative of nothing. Nothing at all.
Show me pre-sales from known large dealers with known sources of inventory, who are willing to take a financial hit if the aftermarket prices exceed the pre-sale prices, and you'll be showing me something real. Not "confirmed order" pre-sales from people with low feedback counts when we all know there are no confirmed orders to date. Those are utter BS. Which is "why the validity of ebay pre-sales is even a discussion."
There is still significant value to ebay pre-sales on a relative basis. Compared to other sets, there is material evidence that people are interested in this offering. Buyers cannot simply cancel purchases. Sellers may, but buyers have little recourse. So there definitely is confirmed orders, confirmed interest on an absolute basis and for sure on a relative basis.
Wholesale dismissal that it means "nothing" is silly.
I've been selling coins on ebay 20+ years. The demand here is definitely real.
@engmtic said:
I don't get why the validity of ebay pre-sales is even a discussion. I've been selling on ebay for 20 years. The presales are real and the demand is real. (Of course some ppl may choose to game system but that is not really relevant.) Wholesale dismissal of that is delusional. Not saying that wont peter our somewhat. The presales are akin to pre/post-market movement on a stock after earnings announcement. Wont necessarily hold but absolutely is the best current market indicator.
I can pretty much guarantee that the silver medal will not sell for less than 1500+ on ebay day of release, but I expect even higher amounts easily.
Because, with something like this, where absolutely no one knows whether or not they will have anything to sell, the "vailidity of eBay pre-sales" is a very real question. Period.
No comparison at all the a regulated stock market. Not "akin" to anything. Neither side to an eBay pre-sale has to perform. And one side of another is almost certain to back out, depending on what happens at release. So the transactions are indicative of nothing. Nothing at all.
Show me pre-sales from known large dealers with known sources of inventory, who are willing to take a financial hit if the aftermarket prices exceed the pre-sale prices, and you'll be showing me something real. Not "confirmed order" pre-sales from people with low feedback counts when we all know there are no confirmed orders to date. Those are utter BS. Which is "why the validity of ebay pre-sales is even a discussion."
Your complete misunderstanding/misrepresentation of how the resale "flipper" markets work is bewildering
Remember when I said earlier that even if proven wrong he will just make things up to say he’s not wrong?? 😆 We’re seeing it live and in person as we speak. Somehow he started at “these (even silvers) will not sell out, total flop” to “these (silvers) have to sell at above $2,000 in the secondary market to not be a flop” in just a few pages. Next progression will be “those aren’t real offers or sales” if they do go for over $2,000. It’s comical really.
Not making anything up. Not even saying I wasn't wrong. Just saying you guys are jumping the gun. A bunch of people buying to sell to others doesn't mean there will be others interested in buying.
Get back to me 7 days after these are received. If there are a bunch of eBay completed sales at $1500+ then, and nothing ends up being returned to the Mint, I will admit I was wrong.
Until then, it is just you and your buddies chomping at the bit to say I told you so. No mention of the golds that will sit unloved, or any recognition of the possibility that might cause people to question the value of silver medals at inflated prices over an inflated issue price.
Right now, it's just a ton or people excited over a perceived risk free opportunity to make some money. Not a ton of people excited over a beautiful new unique issue from the Mint.
Just listen to yourself, and all the other chatter. This is unlike anything else the Mint has ever released. And no one cares about anything other than the flip potential. Not sure why that is not a big red flag to you.
Maybe you are right. We'll see. But things rarely work out for people chasing things for no reason other than they think other people will chase them. People chasing the SpaceX IPO learned that in only a few short weeks.
I think your real problem is that you hate flippers and it skews your brain into immediately dismissing anything they are involved in as not real. Even with your SpaceX IPO example, the flippers could have made a lot of money if they bought the IPO and flipped it a few days later.
I flipped the SpaceEx IPO at 195 even though it earned me a 60 day ban on IPOs. Lol.
Good for you. Please report back after your 60 day ban is over. It might last a lot longer than you think.
Doubtful. They have rules. They enforce their own rules. Since I do about one IPO every 2 years, it may be awhile before I notice.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@engmtic said:
I don't get why the validity of ebay pre-sales is even a discussion. I've been selling on ebay for 20 years. The presales are real and the demand is real. (Of course some ppl may choose to game system but that is not really relevant.) Wholesale dismissal of that is delusional. Not saying that wont peter our somewhat. The presales are akin to pre/post-market movement on a stock after earnings announcement. Wont necessarily hold but absolutely is the best current market indicator.
I can pretty much guarantee that the silver medal will not sell for less than 1500+ on ebay day of release, but I expect even higher amounts easily.
Because, with something like this, where absolutely no one knows whether or not they will have anything to sell, the "vailidity of eBay pre-sales" is a very real question. Period.
No comparison at all the a regulated stock market. Not "akin" to anything. Neither side to an eBay pre-sale has to perform. And one side of another is almost certain to back out, depending on what happens at release. So the transactions are indicative of nothing. Nothing at all.
Show me pre-sales from known large dealers with known sources of inventory, who are willing to take a financial hit if the aftermarket prices exceed the pre-sale prices, and you'll be showing me something real. Not "confirmed order" pre-sales from people with low feedback counts when we all know there are no confirmed orders to date. Those are utter BS. Which is "why the validity of ebay pre-sales is even a discussion."
There is still significant value to ebay pre-sales on a relative basis. Compared to other sets, there is material evidence that people are interested in this offering. Buyers cannot simply cancel purchases. Sellers may, but buyers have little recourse. So there definitely is confirmed orders, confirmed interest on an absolute basis and for sure on a relative basis.
Wholesale dismissal that it means "nothing" is silly.
I've been selling coins on ebay 20+ years. The demand here is definitely real.
Yes. EBay is notoriously tough on buyers wanting their money back. 🤣🤣🤣
Please save it for someone who has no idea how things work. Lots of eBay transactions are going to be busted, one way or the other, after tomorrow. What you are seeing now is fiction.
@engmtic said:
I don't get why the validity of ebay pre-sales is even a discussion. I've been selling on ebay for 20 years. The presales are real and the demand is real. (Of course some ppl may choose to game system but that is not really relevant.) Wholesale dismissal of that is delusional. Not saying that wont peter our somewhat. The presales are akin to pre/post-market movement on a stock after earnings announcement. Wont necessarily hold but absolutely is the best current market indicator.
I can pretty much guarantee that the silver medal will not sell for less than 1500+ on ebay day of release, but I expect even higher amounts easily.
Because, with something like this, where absolutely no one knows whether or not they will have anything to sell, the "vailidity of eBay pre-sales" is a very real question. Period.
No comparison at all the a regulated stock market. Not "akin" to anything. Neither side to an eBay pre-sale has to perform. And one side of another is almost certain to back out, depending on what happens at release. So the transactions are indicative of nothing. Nothing at all.
Show me pre-sales from known large dealers with known sources of inventory, who are willing to take a financial hit if the aftermarket prices exceed the pre-sale prices, and you'll be showing me something real. Not "confirmed order" pre-sales from people with low feedback counts when we all know there are no confirmed orders to date. Those are utter BS. Which is "why the validity of ebay pre-sales is even a discussion."
Your complete misunderstanding/misrepresentation of how the resale "flipper" markets work is bewildering
Yes. Bewildering. You are the expert, with your 57 posts since November.
Remember when I said earlier that even if proven wrong he will just make things up to say he’s not wrong?? 😆 We’re seeing it live and in person as we speak. Somehow he started at “these (even silvers) will not sell out, total flop” to “these (silvers) have to sell at above $2,000 in the secondary market to not be a flop” in just a few pages. Next progression will be “those aren’t real offers or sales” if they do go for over $2,000. It’s comical really.
Not making anything up. Not even saying I wasn't wrong. Just saying you guys are jumping the gun. A bunch of people buying to sell to others doesn't mean there will be others interested in buying.
Get back to me 7 days after these are received. If there are a bunch of eBay completed sales at $1500+ then, and nothing ends up being returned to the Mint, I will admit I was wrong.
Until then, it is just you and your buddies chomping at the bit to say I told you so. No mention of the golds that will sit unloved, or any recognition of the possibility that might cause people to question the value of silver medals at inflated prices over an inflated issue price.
Right now, it's just a ton or people excited over a perceived risk free opportunity to make some money. Not a ton of people excited over a beautiful new unique issue from the Mint.
Just listen to yourself, and all the other chatter. This is unlike anything else the Mint has ever released. And no one cares about anything other than the flip potential. Not sure why that is not a big red flag to you.
Maybe you are right. We'll see. But things rarely work out for people chasing things for no reason other than they think other people will chase them. People chasing the SpaceX IPO learned that in only a few short weeks.
I think your real problem is that you hate flippers and it skews your brain into immediately dismissing anything they are involved in as not real. Even with your SpaceX IPO example, the flippers could have made a lot of money if they bought the IPO and flipped it a few days later.
I flipped the SpaceEx IPO at 195 even though it earned me a 60 day ban on IPOs. Lol.
Good for you. Please report back after your 60 day ban is over. It might last a lot longer than you think.
Doubtful. They have rules. They enforce their own rules. Since I do about one IPO every 2 years, it may be awhile before I notice.
Do you really not understand how it works? You might never notice. You might also never get another opportunity.
The "rules" are bare minimums. Not guarantees of future offer.
Totally depends on whether or not the next thing you look at is oversubscribed or not. "Hot" in our parlance.
Your brokerage firm does not care what you do. Not even a little.
But the issuers care a great deal. As a result, so do the banks that allocate the IPO shares.
Your conduct goes into a pool along with the conduct of all the other flippers at Schwab, Fidelity, Robinhood, or wherever. And their future allocations will be reduced or eliminated based on their ability to judiciously select who gets access. You didn't help their numbers, and you will likely be penalized for that beyond your 60 day time out.
You are now "banned" for 60 days according to their rules. After that, you might be fine, or you might be totally blacklisted. You won't know until you try again.
Another SpaceX? They'll probably tell you that they have nothing for you. Something they are having a hard time placing? You'll probably be able to get whatever you want. Knowing you, that won't be anything you are interested in.
Remember when I said earlier that even if proven wrong he will just make things up to say he’s not wrong?? 😆 We’re seeing it live and in person as we speak. Somehow he started at “these (even silvers) will not sell out, total flop” to “these (silvers) have to sell at above $2,000 in the secondary market to not be a flop” in just a few pages. Next progression will be “those aren’t real offers or sales” if they do go for over $2,000. It’s comical really.
Not making anything up. Not even saying I wasn't wrong. Just saying you guys are jumping the gun. A bunch of people buying to sell to others doesn't mean there will be others interested in buying.
Get back to me 7 days after these are received. If there are a bunch of eBay completed sales at $1500+ then, and nothing ends up being returned to the Mint, I will admit I was wrong.
Until then, it is just you and your buddies chomping at the bit to say I told you so. No mention of the golds that will sit unloved, or any recognition of the possibility that might cause people to question the value of silver medals at inflated prices over an inflated issue price.
Right now, it's just a ton or people excited over a perceived risk free opportunity to make some money. Not a ton of people excited over a beautiful new unique issue from the Mint.
Just listen to yourself, and all the other chatter. This is unlike anything else the Mint has ever released. And no one cares about anything other than the flip potential. Not sure why that is not a big red flag to you.
Maybe you are right. We'll see. But things rarely work out for people chasing things for no reason other than they think other people will chase them. People chasing the SpaceX IPO learned that in only a few short weeks.
I think your real problem is that you hate flippers and it skews your brain into immediately dismissing anything they are involved in as not real. Even with your SpaceX IPO example, the flippers could have made a lot of money if they bought the IPO and flipped it a few days later.
I flipped the SpaceEx IPO at 195 even though it earned me a 60 day ban on IPOs. Lol.
Good for you. Please report back after your 60 day ban is over. It might last a lot longer than you think.
Doubtful. They have rules. They enforce their own rules. Since I do about one IPO every 2 years, it may be awhile before I notice.
Do you really not understand how it works? You might never notice. You might also never get another opportunity.
The "rules" are bare minimums. Not guarantees of future offer.
Totally depends on whether or not the next thing you look at is oversubscribed or not. "Hot" in our parlance.
Your brokerage firm does not care what you do. Not even a little.
But the issuers care a great deal. As a result, so do the banks that allocate the IPO shares.
Your conduct goes into a pool along with the conduct of all the other flippers at Schwab, Fidelity, Robinhood, or wherever. And their future allocations will be reduced or eliminated based on their ability to judiciously select who gets access. You didn't help their numbers, and you will likely be penalized for that beyond your 60 day time out.
You are now "banned" for 60 days according to their rules. After that, you might be fine, or you might be totally blacklisted. You won't know until you try again.
Another SpaceX? They'll probably tell you that they have nothing for you. Something they are having a hard time placing? You'll probably be able to get whatever you want. Knowing you, that won't be anything you are interested in.
I don't care. I'm shocked that you do. I'm sure I'll have no trouble the next time I want to buy an IPO. I have multiple brokerage accounts and a long history of exemplary behavior. I'll be fine. But thank you for caring... or whatever you call this.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@engmtic said:
I don't get why the validity of ebay pre-sales is even a discussion. I've been selling on ebay for 20 years. The presales are real and the demand is real. (Of course some ppl may choose to game system but that is not really relevant.) Wholesale dismissal of that is delusional. Not saying that wont peter our somewhat. The presales are akin to pre/post-market movement on a stock after earnings announcement. Wont necessarily hold but absolutely is the best current market indicator.
I can pretty much guarantee that the silver medal will not sell for less than 1500+ on ebay day of release, but I expect even higher amounts easily.
Because, with something like this, where absolutely no one knows whether or not they will have anything to sell, the "vailidity of eBay pre-sales" is a very real question. Period.
No comparison at all the a regulated stock market. Not "akin" to anything. Neither side to an eBay pre-sale has to perform. And one side of another is almost certain to back out, depending on what happens at release. So the transactions are indicative of nothing. Nothing at all.
Show me pre-sales from known large dealers with known sources of inventory, who are willing to take a financial hit if the aftermarket prices exceed the pre-sale prices, and you'll be showing me something real. Not "confirmed order" pre-sales from people with low feedback counts when we all know there are no confirmed orders to date. Those are utter BS. Which is "why the validity of ebay pre-sales is even a discussion."
There is still significant value to ebay pre-sales on a relative basis. Compared to other sets, there is material evidence that people are interested in this offering. Buyers cannot simply cancel purchases. Sellers may, but buyers have little recourse. So there definitely is confirmed orders, confirmed interest on an absolute basis and for sure on a relative basis.
Wholesale dismissal that it means "nothing" is silly.
I've been selling coins on ebay 20+ years. The demand here is definitely real.
Yes. EBay is notoriously tough on buyers wanting their money back. 🤣🤣🤣
Please save it for someone who has no idea how things work. Lots of eBay transactions are going to be busted, one way or the other, after tomorrow. What you are seeing now is fiction.
It's not fiction at all. Relative to pre-sales of other coins, this shows demonstrable strong demand. That's meaningful.
You may disagree from a prediction perspective, and you may even be right.
But the market still is at where it's at. Warren buffet may claim any given stock will be bankrupt in a year and be right, but the market currently is what dictates todays value.
And currently the market is telling us that about 2,100 is the fair value.
Doubtful. They have rules. They enforce their own rules. Since I do about one IPO every 2 years, it may be awhile before I notice.
Who cares, just use another broker
Just how many brokerage accounts do you have, and just how many IPOs have you participated in?
Your complete misunderstanding/misrepresentation of how IPO allocations are determined is bewildering. 🤣🤣🤣
I can see why most people on this board think of you what they do. For your information, many people have numerous brokerage accounts with significant assets in them and they are able to leverage those accounts to optimize their investment and trading strategies, inclusive of IPO allocations and "flipping". It's apparent that you are stuck in a very rigid box of thinking for most things but you should not assume that others find themselves in the same predicament.
Remember when I said earlier that even if proven wrong he will just make things up to say he’s not wrong?? 😆 We’re seeing it live and in person as we speak. Somehow he started at “these (even silvers) will not sell out, total flop” to “these (silvers) have to sell at above $2,000 in the secondary market to not be a flop” in just a few pages. Next progression will be “those aren’t real offers or sales” if they do go for over $2,000. It’s comical really.
Not making anything up. Not even saying I wasn't wrong. Just saying you guys are jumping the gun. A bunch of people buying to sell to others doesn't mean there will be others interested in buying.
Get back to me 7 days after these are received. If there are a bunch of eBay completed sales at $1500+ then, and nothing ends up being returned to the Mint, I will admit I was wrong.
Until then, it is just you and your buddies chomping at the bit to say I told you so. No mention of the golds that will sit unloved, or any recognition of the possibility that might cause people to question the value of silver medals at inflated prices over an inflated issue price.
Right now, it's just a ton or people excited over a perceived risk free opportunity to make some money. Not a ton of people excited over a beautiful new unique issue from the Mint.
Just listen to yourself, and all the other chatter. This is unlike anything else the Mint has ever released. And no one cares about anything other than the flip potential. Not sure why that is not a big red flag to you.
Maybe you are right. We'll see. But things rarely work out for people chasing things for no reason other than they think other people will chase them. People chasing the SpaceX IPO learned that in only a few short weeks.
I think your real problem is that you hate flippers and it skews your brain into immediately dismissing anything they are involved in as not real. Even with your SpaceX IPO example, the flippers could have made a lot of money if they bought the IPO and flipped it a few days later.
I flipped the SpaceEx IPO at 195 even though it earned me a 60 day ban on IPOs. Lol.
Good for you. Please report back after your 60 day ban is over. It might last a lot longer than you think.
Doubtful. They have rules. They enforce their own rules. Since I do about one IPO every 2 years, it may be awhile before I notice.
Do you really not understand how it works? You might never notice. You might also never get another opportunity.
The "rules" are bare minimums. Not guarantees of future offer.
Totally depends on whether or not the next thing you look at is oversubscribed or not. "Hot" in our parlance.
Your brokerage firm does not care what you do. Not even a little.
But the issuers care a great deal. As a result, so do the banks that allocate the IPO shares.
Your conduct goes into a pool along with the conduct of all the other flippers at Schwab, Fidelity, Robinhood, or wherever. And their future allocations will be reduced or eliminated based on their ability to judiciously select who gets access. You didn't help their numbers, and you will likely be penalized for that beyond your 60 day time out.
You are now "banned" for 60 days according to their rules. After that, you might be fine, or you might be totally blacklisted. You won't know until you try again.
Another SpaceX? They'll probably tell you that they have nothing for you. Something they are having a hard time placing? You'll probably be able to get whatever you want. Knowing you, that won't be anything you are interested in.
I don't care. I'm shocked that you do. I'm sure I'll have no trouble the next time I want to buy an IPO. I have multiple brokerage accounts and a long history of exemplary behavior. I'll be fine. But thank you for caring... or whatever you call this.
Not caring. Just pointing things out.
You said "60 days lol." I pointed out not necessarily.
But it sounds like you know what you are doing, and have it covered. So, good for you, you made some money at some sucker's expense. Time for another round tomorrow at noon.
@engmtic said:
I don't get why the validity of ebay pre-sales is even a discussion. I've been selling on ebay for 20 years. The presales are real and the demand is real. (Of course some ppl may choose to game system but that is not really relevant.) Wholesale dismissal of that is delusional. Not saying that wont peter our somewhat. The presales are akin to pre/post-market movement on a stock after earnings announcement. Wont necessarily hold but absolutely is the best current market indicator.
I can pretty much guarantee that the silver medal will not sell for less than 1500+ on ebay day of release, but I expect even higher amounts easily.
Because, with something like this, where absolutely no one knows whether or not they will have anything to sell, the "vailidity of eBay pre-sales" is a very real question. Period.
No comparison at all the a regulated stock market. Not "akin" to anything. Neither side to an eBay pre-sale has to perform. And one side of another is almost certain to back out, depending on what happens at release. So the transactions are indicative of nothing. Nothing at all.
Show me pre-sales from known large dealers with known sources of inventory, who are willing to take a financial hit if the aftermarket prices exceed the pre-sale prices, and you'll be showing me something real. Not "confirmed order" pre-sales from people with low feedback counts when we all know there are no confirmed orders to date. Those are utter BS. Which is "why the validity of ebay pre-sales is even a discussion."
There is still significant value to ebay pre-sales on a relative basis. Compared to other sets, there is material evidence that people are interested in this offering. Buyers cannot simply cancel purchases. Sellers may, but buyers have little recourse. So there definitely is confirmed orders, confirmed interest on an absolute basis and for sure on a relative basis.
Wholesale dismissal that it means "nothing" is silly.
I've been selling coins on ebay 20+ years. The demand here is definitely real.
Yes. EBay is notoriously tough on buyers wanting their money back. 🤣🤣🤣
Please save it for someone who has no idea how things work. Lots of eBay transactions are going to be busted, one way or the other, after tomorrow. What you are seeing now is fiction.
It's not fiction at all. Relative to pre-sales of other coins, this shows demonstrable strong demand. That's meaningful.
You may disagree from a prediction perspective, and you may even be right.
But the market still is at where it's at. Warren buffet may claim any given stock will be bankrupt in a year and be right, but the market currently is what dictates todays value.
And currently the market is telling us that about 2,100 is the fair value.
It's arrogant to dismiss.
Yes, it's "fiction" because no one has anything to sell, no guarantee to have anything to sell, and there is a well documented history of people on eBay walking away from unprofitable pre-sale transactions. So these are nothing other than noise.
Real transactions will occur tomorrow once people have confirmed orders from the Mint. Then, after a few days, when everyone hits eBay with their treasures, we'll see where the market is for the first round of FOMO buyers.
It's actually not "arrogant to dismiss." It's naive to get this any credence.
There is no market at all right now, because no one has anything to sell, or obligation to perform. It's all just pre-sale fiction.
Doubtful. They have rules. They enforce their own rules. Since I do about one IPO every 2 years, it may be awhile before I notice.
Who cares, just use another broker
Just how many brokerage accounts do you have, and just how many IPOs have you participated in?
Your complete misunderstanding/misrepresentation of how IPO allocations are determined is bewildering. 🤣🤣🤣
I can see why most people on this board think of you what they do. For your information, many people have numerous brokerage accounts with significant assets in them and they are able to leverage those accounts to optimize their investment and trading strategies, inclusive of IPO allocations and "flipping". It's apparent that you are stuck in a very rigid box of thinking for most things but you should not assume that others find themselves in the same predicament.
As you should also be able to see, I really, really, really truly care.
I didn't ask you what people have. I asked what you have.
From your response, it's pretty clear that you have never, ever participated in a single IPO. So you really have nothing to teach me. Either about IPOs, or flipping. Carry on.
@NJCoin said:
Not flip flopping, since I still think they are crap.
You also flip-flopped and said you would buy one if the price was low enough.
So you have now flip-flopped on a flip-flop.
Yes. You got me.
I personally would have no interest at any price. Another "flip-flop." I misspoke.
Congratulations. It's hot garbage, made to compete with low mintage hot garbage manufactured by private and world mints.
I meant to say that I could see how people would be interested at a normal price. I can't see anyone having any interest in it at $750, given what it is, other than because, due to the mintage, someone else would think it is worth more. Greater fool theory. Nothing more.
It's amazing how some people will allow the US government to turn $30 worth of silver into thousands of dollars by paying a supplier to mold silver into the shape of a bell. Anyone else could do that, and they wouldn't pay $50 for it.
Congratulations to all the lucky collectors who manage to get their hands on one. Hopefully from you and others at like you, at a multiple to what you pay.
But I think you will see people balking at $10K and $20K for gold. And that might very well cause the people you hope to flip to question the wisdom of sinking $1500+ into a silver one. TBD.
Just received my third email from the third company asking people to buy all three tomorrow. Don’t tell NJ, he won’t believe me. My current plan is to go all out on silver. May try for a 1/2 gold. My credit card limit is not high enough to get an ounce gold. Not sure how those will do if others are in the same boat.
Doubtful. They have rules. They enforce their own rules. Since I do about one IPO every 2 years, it may be awhile before I notice.
Who cares, just use another broker
Just how many brokerage accounts do you have, and just how many IPOs have you participated in?
Your complete misunderstanding/misrepresentation of how IPO allocations are determined is bewildering. 🤣🤣🤣
I can see why most people on this board think of you what they do. For your information, many people have numerous brokerage accounts with significant assets in them and they are able to leverage those accounts to optimize their investment and trading strategies, inclusive of IPO allocations and "flipping". It's apparent that you are stuck in a very rigid box of thinking for most things but you should not assume that others find themselves in the same predicament.
As you should also be able to see, I really, really, really truly care.
I didn't ask you what people have. I asked what you have.
From your response, it's pretty clear that you have never, ever participated in a single IPO. So you really have nothing to teach me. Either about IPOs, or flipping. Carry on.
As someone what has several brokerage accounts, who actively trades (I love covered calls...), who has participated in many IPOS, who was allocated SpaceX shares in 2 accounts, and who sold the majority of the shares around 175, you time and time again demonstrate that you have absolutely no clue what you are writing about.
@jwitten said:
Just received my third email from the third company asking people to buy all three tomorrow. Don’t tell NJ, he won’t believe me. My current plan is to go all out on silver. May try for a 1/2 gold. My credit card limit is not high enough to get an ounce gold. Not sure how those will do if others are in the same boat.
Go for it. In spite of the all the back and forth here, I hope you don't get hurt.
Don't worry about the gold. They aren't going to do anything.
Doubtful. They have rules. They enforce their own rules. Since I do about one IPO every 2 years, it may be awhile before I notice.
Who cares, just use another broker
Just how many brokerage accounts do you have, and just how many IPOs have you participated in?
Your complete misunderstanding/misrepresentation of how IPO allocations are determined is bewildering. 🤣🤣🤣
I can see why most people on this board think of you what they do. For your information, many people have numerous brokerage accounts with significant assets in them and they are able to leverage those accounts to optimize their investment and trading strategies, inclusive of IPO allocations and "flipping". It's apparent that you are stuck in a very rigid box of thinking for most things but you should not assume that others find themselves in the same predicament.
As you should also be able to see, I really, really, really truly care.
I didn't ask you what people have. I asked what you have.
From your response, it's pretty clear that you have never, ever participated in a single IPO. So you really have nothing to teach me. Either about IPOs, or flipping. Carry on.
As someone what has several brokerage accounts, who actively trades (I love covered calls...), who has participated in many IPOS, who was allocated SpaceX shares in 2 accounts, and who sold the majority of the shares around 175, you time and time again demonstrate that you have absolutely no clue what you are writing about.
Really? What am I wrong about? That issuers don't like flippers, and that brokerage firms cut flippers off from future IPOs? Really? Absolutely no clue. Right. 🤣🤣🤣
Believe me, I know far more about this than can you possibly imagine.
You sound like a major wheeler dealer here. What are we talking about? 10 shares across 2 accounts?
@engmtic said:
I don't get why the validity of ebay pre-sales is even a discussion. I've been selling on ebay for 20 years. The presales are real and the demand is real. (Of course some ppl may choose to game system but that is not really relevant.) Wholesale dismissal of that is delusional. Not saying that wont peter our somewhat. The presales are akin to pre/post-market movement on a stock after earnings announcement. Wont necessarily hold but absolutely is the best current market indicator.
I can pretty much guarantee that the silver medal will not sell for less than 1500+ on ebay day of release, but I expect even higher amounts easily.
Because, with something like this, where absolutely no one knows whether or not they will have anything to sell, the "vailidity of eBay pre-sales" is a very real question. Period.
No comparison at all the a regulated stock market. Not "akin" to anything. Neither side to an eBay pre-sale has to perform. And one side of another is almost certain to back out, depending on what happens at release. So the transactions are indicative of nothing. Nothing at all.
Show me pre-sales from known large dealers with known sources of inventory, who are willing to take a financial hit if the aftermarket prices exceed the pre-sale prices, and you'll be showing me something real. Not "confirmed order" pre-sales from people with low feedback counts when we all know there are no confirmed orders to date. Those are utter BS. Which is "why the validity of ebay pre-sales is even a discussion."
Your complete misunderstanding/misrepresentation of how the resale "flipper" markets work is bewildering
Yes. Bewildering. You are the expert, with your 57 posts since November.
Comments
But, are they? I'm saying it does not make sense to do so, for the reasons you are choosing not to.
So the bidders are either stupid, or the offers are phantom. Because unless people KNOW they will be getting inventory, people hitting those bids cannot guarantee performance. And the dealers know that.
So what's in it for them to put out bids? Why aren't you? Suddenly allergic to money?
Why is $2k the standard? Aren't you still wrong if $900 is the price of settles at?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Might be. Why else? It's not like the extra half ounce of silver adds much cost. They couldn't use normal production methods. There very well might have been a limit to the size they could handle with the method they used.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
No. If they are not at least a double, they are not a flip worth chasing with this mintage.
Pick nits all you want, but if they go to $900, they are as likely to go to $600. You can argue about angels on heads of pins. I am looking big picture.
These will either be $2K+ or they won't. People are comparing them to $6K FH silver privies, not Congratulations sets.
I told you why I wasn't putting out bids. There are legitimate bids out there on PURE and PFS.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I wouldn't obsess over intial release flipper pricing. The long term success will be determined by months long price stability.
This is why we are all here posting right?........
Really?
Lol.
But you were saying they wouldn't even sell out.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Understood. It's also not like a decent box for a $124.50 set containing $6 worth of pocket change would add much cost either.
The Mint is now charging as much as it can, and is also squeezing costs wherever possible. I'm honestly a little surprised it has any silver at all, given how much they are charging and as little silver as it has. But I guess they thought there would really be backlash if they tried that.
Just my guess, but I am confident they could have figured out how to do in silver what they did in gold if they wanted to. As they always seem to do.
In fact, it's the gold that is usually light, due to the cost of the metal, not production constraints in working with a whopping full ounce of anything. But thanks for your contribution in the continuing series of "anything at all is possible."
Actually, I proposed one reasonable suggestion, not "anything". But, I'm going to go easy on you are about to have a very busy week.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Yes. The action, the talk, the eBay pumping, PFS offer, etc., has made it clear that people will be taking shots for $750.
I still think it's crap. That won't change. But it's pretty clear flippers will be trying to flip.
So, the goal posts have moved. The question now is whether, if a half ounce gold coin sits unloved at $10K, as it increasing appears as though it will, and certainly the one ounce at $20K will not be selling out, given the absolute lack of chatter and increasing awareness that there will be no flip at that price, will a half ounce silver medal find a market at what these folks hope to get? If not, then at what price? $1500? $900? $750?
I honestly don't think anyone pumping here thinks they are a long term hold at $750. Or that anyone really wants them at any price due to their unique shape and beauty, simply due to their freakishly low mintage. As far as I'm concerned, if you like them, they'd be a "nice to have" at around $100, regardless of the mintage. No more.
So then, as with the Congratulations sets, what happens if 2K people don't really want them at all after 10K people slam the website chasing a flip? The 200 on Pure go to TV, where they try to sell them for $4K? What about everyone else? We've seen "legitimate" buy offers suddenly disappear before.
Maybe this becomes a thing, like the auctions. Maybe not.
Sorry, but I see a lot less value here than in $150 Hot Wheels being peddled by PAMP. And I also think those are hot garbage.
I'm really not impressed by what the Mint seems to want to turn into. Really calls into question the value and legitimacy of anything they produce. Trump coins, after what he tried to sell on TV after his second inauguration? Just like every other great nation that features an effigy of their beloved monarch on their money. TBD.
So then, as with the Congratulations sets, what happens if 2K people don't really want them at all after 10K people slam the website chasing a flip? The 200 on Pure go to TV, where they try to sell them for $4K? What about everyone else? We've seen "legitimate" buy offers suddenly disappear before.
This is why I am real hesitant to buy and flip. One of the regular buyers here, whom I had sold to before on several occasions, stiffed me on the BoM Dime set. He has sent out a very "wishy washy" offer for these - no $$ mentioned, just that he thinks they will be hot and that I/we should grab all we can and he would be happy to be the middle man. Not very enticing, especially since he bailed on me the previous time. Now I'm stuck with a coin I really don't want...
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
It is a lot harder to dry up all the inventory the flippers loaded on with the Congratulations sets at 60,000, than it is for one with barely 2000 and no dealer allotment, with a HHL of only one.
You flip-flopped on the silvers and now claim they will sell out, when you earlier said they would have no demand at all.The 1/2 ounce gold should sell out, being the lower price. many prefer the 1 ounce but it is not larger outer dimensions like with normal coins, so may not be such a factor here.
Multiple people have come forward and told you there are offers out there. Please accept reality. Just like you never accepted reality with the extra flowing hair silver medals, those missing 25,000 you claimed were struck by the mint. Are they still in Al Capones vault Lol
The advice, if you are comfortable doing it, is to return it to the Mint within 7 days of receipt if the flip doesn't develop. You might or might not have to pay return shipping, but that's your only real risk.
That, and the low mintage, is why people will apparently be killing themselves to take a perceived risk free shot. It's also why I have my doubts about actual demand for this. It's mostly a greater fool theory, where nobody actually wants them, but everyone thinks someone else will. At a significant premium. We'll see.
Only if 2K people actually want them. That's a huge TBD, since this is not part of any set, and the Mint has never done anything like this before. It is very similar to what the private mints do, slapping on some sovereign nation's name to turn it into the coinage you so know and love. But the Mint is doing it at a far higher price point.
The theory is that there is much more demand for US Mint product, so, as in Field of Dreams, if they make it, you will come. At whatever price they dictate. We'll see, since this is really no different than Hot Wheels, and if people see through that, they will be unwilling to pay up for these.
I'm glad you are staying in love with the half ounce gold. We'll see what you have to say about them tomorrow afternoon.
Not flip flopping, since I still think they are crap. It is just obvious that tons of people like you will chasing it. Let's see how many of you end up keeping them if you cannot profitably flip them.
Yes, "multiple people have come forward and told you there are offers out there." I have repeatedly explained why I discount them. If you cannot understand or accept what I am saying, I cannot help you with that.
No, the missing 25K FH silver medals are not in Al Capone's vault. Until they did it, it never occurred to me that the Mint would leave money on the table like that. Now I know better, and they are more than making up for it now, getting you to salivate over $1,500 per ounce silver shaped like a bell.
That sucks!! I'm pretty sure many of us know who you are talking about. I got the same "wishy washy" email and deleted it.
I would never do business with that person again. Once trust is broken, it is very hard to rebuild.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@jmlanzaf said:
Remember when I said earlier that even if proven wrong he will just make things up to say he’s not wrong?? 😆 We’re seeing it live and in person as we speak. Somehow he started at “these (even silvers) will not sell out, total flop” to “these (silvers) have to sell at above $2,000 in the secondary market to not be a flop” in just a few pages. Next progression will be “those aren’t real offers or sales” if they do go for over $2,000. It’s comical really.
Not making anything up. Not even saying I wasn't wrong. Just saying you guys are jumping the gun. A bunch of people buying to sell to others doesn't mean there will be others interested in buying.
Get back to me 7 days after these are received. If there are a bunch of eBay completed sales at $1500+ then, and nothing ends up being returned to the Mint, I will admit I was wrong.
Until then, it is just you and your buddies chomping at the bit to say I told you so. No mention of the golds that will sit unloved, or any recognition of the possibility that might cause people to question the value of silver medals at inflated prices over an inflated issue price.
Right now, it's just a ton or people excited over a perceived risk free opportunity to make some money. Not a ton of people excited over a beautiful new unique issue from the Mint.
Just listen to yourself, and all the other chatter. This is unlike anything else the Mint has ever released. And no one cares about anything other than the flip potential. Not sure why that is not a big red flag to you.
Maybe you are right. We'll see. But things rarely work out for people chasing things for no reason other than they think other people will chase them. People chasing the SpaceX IPO learned that in only a few short weeks.
I don't get why the validity of ebay pre-sales is even a discussion. I've been selling on ebay for 20 years. The presales are real and the demand is real. (Of course some ppl may choose to game system but that is not really relevant.) Wholesale dismissal of that is delusional. Not saying that wont peter our somewhat. The presales are akin to pre/post-market movement on a stock after earnings announcement. Wont necessarily hold but absolutely is the best current market indicator.
I can pretty much guarantee that the silver medal will not sell for less than 1500+ on ebay day of release, but I expect even higher amounts easily.
I think your real problem is that you hate flippers and it skews your brain into immediately dismissing anything they are involved in as not real. Even with your SpaceX IPO example, the flippers could have made a lot of money if they bought the IPO and flipped it a few days later.
Because, with something like this, where absolutely no one knows whether or not they will have anything to sell, the "vailidity of eBay pre-sales" is a very real question. Period.
No comparison at all the a regulated stock market. Not "akin" to anything. Neither side to an eBay pre-sale has to perform. And one side of another is almost certain to back out, depending on what happens at release. So the transactions are indicative of nothing. Nothing at all.
Show me pre-sales from known large dealers with known sources of inventory, who are willing to take a financial hit if the aftermarket prices exceed the pre-sale prices, and you'll be showing me something real. Not "confirmed order" pre-sales from people with low feedback counts when we all know there are no confirmed orders to date. Those are utter BS. Which is "why the validity of ebay pre-sales is even a discussion."
I flipped the SpaceEx IPO at 195 even though it earned me a 60 day ban on IPOs. Lol.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Nope. I don't hate anyone. Trust me, very few SpaceX flippers "made a lot of money." Most are probably still holding. If not, it will be the last IPO their brokers ever give them.
If this turns out to be a great flip, great. As I have been saying, I just don't see it. Everyone wants to sell. I don't see anyone buying, other than to sell to others.
Good for you. Please report back after your 60 day ban is over. It might last a lot longer than you think.
There is still significant value to ebay pre-sales on a relative basis. Compared to other sets, there is material evidence that people are interested in this offering. Buyers cannot simply cancel purchases. Sellers may, but buyers have little recourse. So there definitely is confirmed orders, confirmed interest on an absolute basis and for sure on a relative basis.
Wholesale dismissal that it means "nothing" is silly.
I've been selling coins on ebay 20+ years. The demand here is definitely real.
Your complete misunderstanding/misrepresentation of how the resale "flipper" markets work is bewildering
Doubtful. They have rules. They enforce their own rules. Since I do about one IPO every 2 years, it may be awhile before I notice.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Who cares, just use another broker
Yes. EBay is notoriously tough on buyers wanting their money back. 🤣🤣🤣
Please save it for someone who has no idea how things work. Lots of eBay transactions are going to be busted, one way or the other, after tomorrow. What you are seeing now is fiction.
Yes. Bewildering. You are the expert, with your 57 posts since November.
Do you really not understand how it works? You might never notice. You might also never get another opportunity.
The "rules" are bare minimums. Not guarantees of future offer.
Totally depends on whether or not the next thing you look at is oversubscribed or not. "Hot" in our parlance.
Your brokerage firm does not care what you do. Not even a little.
But the issuers care a great deal. As a result, so do the banks that allocate the IPO shares.
Your conduct goes into a pool along with the conduct of all the other flippers at Schwab, Fidelity, Robinhood, or wherever. And their future allocations will be reduced or eliminated based on their ability to judiciously select who gets access. You didn't help their numbers, and you will likely be penalized for that beyond your 60 day time out.
You are now "banned" for 60 days according to their rules. After that, you might be fine, or you might be totally blacklisted. You won't know until you try again.
Another SpaceX? They'll probably tell you that they have nothing for you. Something they are having a hard time placing? You'll probably be able to get whatever you want. Knowing you, that won't be anything you are interested in.
Just how many brokerage accounts do you have, and just how many IPOs have you participated in?
Your complete misunderstanding/misrepresentation of how IPO allocations are determined is bewildering. 🤣🤣🤣
I don't care. I'm shocked that you do. I'm sure I'll have no trouble the next time I want to buy an IPO. I have multiple brokerage accounts and a long history of exemplary behavior. I'll be fine. But thank you for caring... or whatever you call this.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
It's not fiction at all.
Relative to pre-sales of other coins, this shows demonstrable strong demand. That's meaningful.
You may disagree from a prediction perspective, and you may even be right.
But the market still is at where it's at. Warren buffet may claim any given stock will be bankrupt in a year and be right, but the market currently is what dictates todays value.
And currently the market is telling us that about 2,100 is the fair value.
It's arrogant to dismiss.
He's like a broken record at this point. Same thing over & over, and over again.
Having the highest post-count on a thread, for an offering that he's not interested in.
Figure that one out.
I can see why most people on this board think of you what they do. For your information, many people have numerous brokerage accounts with significant assets in them and they are able to leverage those accounts to optimize their investment and trading strategies, inclusive of IPO allocations and "flipping". It's apparent that you are stuck in a very rigid box of thinking for most things but you should not assume that others find themselves in the same predicament.
Not caring. Just pointing things out.
You said "60 days lol." I pointed out not necessarily.
But it sounds like you know what you are doing, and have it covered. So, good for you, you made some money at some sucker's expense. Time for another round tomorrow at noon.
Yes, it's "fiction" because no one has anything to sell, no guarantee to have anything to sell, and there is a well documented history of people on eBay walking away from unprofitable pre-sale transactions. So these are nothing other than noise.
Real transactions will occur tomorrow once people have confirmed orders from the Mint. Then, after a few days, when everyone hits eBay with their treasures, we'll see where the market is for the first round of FOMO buyers.
It's actually not "arrogant to dismiss." It's naive to get this any credence.
There is no market at all right now, because no one has anything to sell, or obligation to perform. It's all just pre-sale fiction.
Yes. Same thing over and over. Thanks for adding to my post count by inviting me to post. I truly appreciate it.
Be ready for the mad rush tomorrow. Everybody should try for the silver !!!!
As you should also be able to see, I really, really, really truly care.
I didn't ask you what people have. I asked what you have.
From your response, it's pretty clear that you have never, ever participated in a single IPO. So you really have nothing to teach me. Either about IPOs, or flipping. Carry on.
You also flip-flopped and said you would buy one if the price was low enough.
So you have now flip-flopped on a flip-flop.
Yes. You got me.
I personally would have no interest at any price. Another "flip-flop." I misspoke.
Congratulations. It's hot garbage, made to compete with low mintage hot garbage manufactured by private and world mints.
I meant to say that I could see how people would be interested at a normal price. I can't see anyone having any interest in it at $750, given what it is, other than because, due to the mintage, someone else would think it is worth more. Greater fool theory. Nothing more.
It's amazing how some people will allow the US government to turn $30 worth of silver into thousands of dollars by paying a supplier to mold silver into the shape of a bell. Anyone else could do that, and they wouldn't pay $50 for it.
Congratulations to all the lucky collectors who manage to get their hands on one. Hopefully from you and others at like you, at a multiple to what you pay.
But I think you will see people balking at $10K and $20K for gold. And that might very well cause the people you hope to flip to question the wisdom of sinking $1500+ into a silver one. TBD.
Just received my third email from the third company asking people to buy all three tomorrow. Don’t tell NJ, he won’t believe me. My current plan is to go all out on silver. May try for a 1/2 gold. My credit card limit is not high enough to get an ounce gold. Not sure how those will do if others are in the same boat.
As someone what has several brokerage accounts, who actively trades (I love covered calls...), who has participated in many IPOS, who was allocated SpaceX shares in 2 accounts, and who sold the majority of the shares around 175, you time and time again demonstrate that you have absolutely no clue what you are writing about.
Go for it. In spite of the all the back and forth here, I hope you don't get hurt.
Don't worry about the gold. They aren't going to do anything.
Really? What am I wrong about? That issuers don't like flippers, and that brokerage firms cut flippers off from future IPOs? Really? Absolutely no clue. Right. 🤣🤣🤣
Believe me, I know far more about this than can you possibly imagine.
You sound like a major wheeler dealer here. What are we talking about? 10 shares across 2 accounts?
Clown Alert!
If only noise equated to expertise!
such a pleasant thread