@pf70collector said:
Only buying to flip. 7 day return window if these bomb.
As a taxpayer, I'd like to raise a middle finger.
Why? The Mint knows what it is doing.
Not offering the free return option would kill it in its crib. And, they make plenty of money on everything at the prices they are now charging.
They can afford to do this, and are doing it for a reason. There is no principle involved in pretty much anything they do nowadays, so why take a stand on this.
I too would like the Mint to force people to put up or shut up, with no backsies on these, or on 69s,etc. But they know full well what people are doing, and why, and they are okay with it. You, as a taxpayer, should be fine, because they are not running at a loss here. Far from it.
The only things they get killed on are the Congressionally mandated commemoratives, and there is no return issue with them, given they are forced to mint in quantities far above demand. Which is why the programs bleed money.
I just personally find the abuse of the free returns to be reprehensible. It's just a "me thing". I don't mind flippers. I do mind flippers effing up distribution with massive returns. It forever killed the 2017 EU sets. They ended up with 60,000+ returns out of 225,000 sets and it never recovered, even though it had initially "sold out".
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The mint is abusing its customers when marking up silver outrageously. These markups of liberty bells are an abuse. Just seeing some opportunities on these. I do not return mint products in general. In fact I rarely do even when I have bought most of the sequentials this year at roughly $700 when I will probably take a loss straight out of the gate.
@pf70collector said:
The mint is abusing its customers when marking up silver outrageously. These markups of liberty bells are an abuse. Just seeing some opportunities on these. I do not return mint products in general. In fact I rarely do even when I have bought most of the sequentials this year at roughly $700 when I will probably take a loss straight out of the gate.
So is it abuse when Louis Vitton charges $10k for a leather hand bag? Or just charging what the market will bear?
@pf70collector said:
The mint is abusing its customers when marking up silver outrageously. These markups of liberty bells are an abuse. Just seeing some opportunities on these. I do not return mint products in general. In fact I rarely do even when I have bought most of the sequentials this year at roughly $700 when I will probably take a loss straight out of the gate.
So is it abuse when Louis Vitton charges $10k for a leather hand bag? Or just charging what the market will bear?
People just feel that they should be entitled to buy what they want at the price they want to pay. I have a hard time finding sympathy. If you don't like the $10k price tag, you just pass on the LV bag.
The only Mint issue I'll even listen to the complaint is the Mint set because the Mint is required to make those. NONE of these other coins need to be made at all. So, buy them if you want them, ignore them if you don't.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@HalfDime said:
ats for the silver Liberty Bell is 2026 so this is good news as all will be limited to one. The one ounce gold is also 2026.
None set aside for Big Boys, and no Big Boys soliciting you to buy tells you nothing? Tells me that all the buying is going to be speculative, with no solid buy offers on the other side. And Big Boys apparently staying away. That's going to seriously limit the flipping market.
Just a free option to send them back to the Mint, per the reseller article you helpfully posted. Hard to believe there is going to be organic demand for 6K of these at these prices. Or higher, which will be the plan for many all hot and bothered over these. TBD.
Buying groups are firing up their engines and spreading word about these. No one is guaranteeing a price in advance because the market is unknown. There will be a frenzy for the silvers, that's for sure, but I'm pretty confident flippers will also grab gold if they can.
Too bad the mint can’t reward faithful customers that have been buying for years instead of letting flippers and uninterested parties clog the system for the chance to make a few quick bucks…..🤔😏
@changeofpace said:
Buying groups are firing up their engines and spreading word about these. No one is guaranteeing a price in advance because the market is unknown. There will be a frenzy for the silvers, that's for sure, but I'm pretty confident flippers will also grab gold if they can.
If they are not guaranteeing a price in advance, what are they doing, other than encouraging other people to risk their money on a maybe, using the Mint's return policy as an insurance policy? Is that really going to get people to put $750 on a credit card for a half ounce of silver?
If so, then, yeah, it's going to seriously diminish the odds of getting one for those who actually want them. But, given how expensive they already are, good luck to the buyers clubs when it comes to flipping to someone they boxed out at release.
People fail to understand that the backbone of the flipping market is Big Boy dealers buying inventory they cannot otherwise get their hands on. If they have no interest in these, because there are too few of them, at too high a price, to make marketing them worth their time and money, then the flippers are left flipping to FOMO retail buyers. And no one really knows whether that market will develop, and at what price. Certainly the people behind the buyers clubs don't have a clue.
I wouldn't be "pretty confident" about the gold because, at the same mintage but at 13x and 26x the price, there really isn't much of a flip in them regardless. $20K for a one ounce gold coin with a mintage of 2K is simply no bargain to begin with. People who can't live without one will buy one, but there is not going to be a flipping market for 2K of them at a premium to that price.
Same for the half ounce gold. Silver is TBD, because the market for that is unknown. People are comparing to other silver things with similar mintages, but they are very different things. That said, $750 is doable for people in a way that $10K and $20K are not, and a 2K mintage for a $750 item is a very different thing than the same mintage for $10K and $20K items that have so little intrinsic value relative to the price.
So, sure, it looks like people are going to be taking a shot. I still don't think anyone is actually going to want to own them, but lots of folks might take a perceived risk free shot at flipping them. Especially if the buyers clubs are egging them on.
@safari_dude said:
Too bad the mint can’t reward faithful customers that have been buying for years instead of letting flippers and uninterested parties clog the system for the chance to make a few quick bucks…..🤔😏
They could. But, at the end of the day, like Knicks season ticket holders cashing in on flipping playoff tickets, you can rest assured that, for something like this, it would just be the "faithful customers that have been buying for years" who would be making the "few quick bucks."
VERY few people who buy directly from the Mint will end up with these in their collections long term. No matter who the initial buyers are.
Because there are no long time faithful customers for something like this, and the people buying base metal proof sets for $40 are not the same people buying $750 half ounce silver Liberty Bells to add to their collections.
@safari_dude said:
Too bad the mint can’t reward faithful customers that have been buying for years instead of letting flippers and uninterested parties clog the system for the chance to make a few quick bucks…..🤔😏
Define faithful. There are numerous flippers who buy 10x as much product as your "faithful ". Maybe they should be rewarded 10x as much?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@safari_dude said:
Too bad the mint can’t reward faithful customers that have been buying for years instead of letting flippers and uninterested parties clog the system for the chance to make a few quick bucks…..🤔😏
They could. But, at the end of the day, like Knicks season ticket holders cashing in on flipping playoff tickets, you can rest assured that, for something like this, it would just be the "faithful customers that have been buying for years" who would be making the "few quick bucks."
VERY few people who buy directly from the Mint will end up with these in their collections long term. No matter who the initial buyers are.
Because there are no long time faithful customers for something like this, and the people buying base metal proof sets for $40 are not the same people buying $750 half ounce silver Liberty Bells to add to their collections.
Kinda of agree although we DO have a few posters here that are interested in adding to their collections as I am, but for whatever reason the flippers market ends up costing way more than they/myself would pay. Yesterday at the FUN show in Orlando, the US Mint director was signing any COA’s or boxes for purchases made there. I bought the reverse proof Peace and Morgan dollars that had just been released and stood in line. I was the last person in line and was two from having my COA’s signed. The security guard got in front of me and said he wasn’t signing anymore after the two in front of me were done. Mind you, there was NO ONE behind me as I checked twice….and the security guard wasn’t budging. I returned my purchases because it was evident that my purchase/loyalty wasn’t important. I was only there for the day and was told to ‘come back tomorrow’…….but flying to Orlando again wasn’t happening. Sure left me with a bad taste of the US Mint again….😏
Define faithful. They are numerous flippers who buy 10x as much product as your "faithful ". Maybe they should be rewarded 10x as much?
The word “flippers” doesn’t come across as a faithful customer. The greediness in this field is really pushing a lot of collectors out of it in my opinion. Not sure why so many are okay with that. Maybe I’m wrong, but I’d think customer loyalty should have at least some benefit in these sales…..
Define faithful. They are numerous flippers who buy 10x as much product as your "faithful ". Maybe they should be rewarded 10x as much?
The word “flippers” doesn’t come across as a faithful customer. The greediness in this field is really pushing a lot of collectors out of it in my opinion. Not sure why so many are okay with that. Maybe I’m wrong, but I’d think customer loyalty should have at least some benefit in these sales…..
You don't think of it that way. Many are equally negative, but not all. I flip 10x more than I keep, but I've been buying from the Mint for 30+ years FAITHFULLY.
And, even "true collectors" occasionally flip but sometimes don't consider themselves "flippers".
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@changeofpace said:
Buying groups are firing up their engines and spreading word about these. No one is guaranteeing a price in advance because the market is unknown. There will be a frenzy for the silvers, that's for sure, but I'm pretty confident flippers will also grab gold if they can.
If they are not guaranteeing a price in advance, what are they doing, other than encouraging other people to risk their money on a maybe, using the Mint's return policy as an insurance policy? Is that really going to get people to put $750 on a credit card for a half ounce of silver?
Don't underestimate the points & miles credit card community! They'll leap at the prospect of knocking out the $20k minimum spend requirement for an Amex Business Platinum sign up bonus in one shot. One transaction to earn a bonus worth at least $3k, plus rewards from the purchase worth an additional $400 (that card earns 2x on transactions $5k+). This is without any profit from reselling. If it's a dud, the credit card rewards cushion will be factored in before doing a return.
I'm not saying it's risk free - the golds could be a bust. Just trying to help explain why come release day, there could be a sizable crowd online.
The U.S. Mint's 7-day return period begins the day you receive your order. To qualify for a refund or exchange, your returned package must be postmarked within seven calendar days of that delivery date.
"This product is currently on back order and is estimated to ship on Thu Jul 16 2026."
So a day for some to get them and others maybe a week. Assuming all are ready to ship, then returns end about the end of the month (except for relistings).
Everyone still holding from order day at that point is locked in.
@HalfDime said:
The U.S. Mint's 7-day return period begins the day you receive your order. To qualify for a refund or exchange, your returned package must be postmarked within seven calendar days of that delivery date.
"This product is currently on back order and is estimated to ship on Thu Jul 16 2026."
So a day for some to get them and others maybe a week. Assuming all are ready to ship, then returns end about the end of the month (except for relistings).
Everyone still holding from order day at that point is locked in.
Oh, I bet you can still return it later, if you push the issue.
Worst case scenario, claim SNAD and file a charge back.
Since we're abusing the Mint, why stop at 7 days. 🤣
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@safari_dude said:
Too bad the mint can’t reward faithful customers that have been buying for years instead of letting flippers and uninterested parties clog the system for the chance to make a few quick bucks…..🤔😏
They could. But, at the end of the day, like Knicks season ticket holders cashing in on flipping playoff tickets, you can rest assured that, for something like this, it would just be the "faithful customers that have been buying for years" who would be making the "few quick bucks."
VERY few people who buy directly from the Mint will end up with these in their collections long term. No matter who the initial buyers are.
Because there are no long time faithful customers for something like this, and the people buying base metal proof sets for $40 are not the same people buying $750 half ounce silver Liberty Bells to add to their collections.
Kinda of agree although we DO have a few posters here that are interested in adding to their collections as I am, but for whatever reason the flippers market ends up costing way more than they/myself would pay. Yesterday at the FUN show in Orlando, the US Mint director was signing any COA’s or boxes for purchases made there. I bought the reverse proof Peace and Morgan dollars that had just been released and stood in line. I was the last person in line and was two from having my COA’s signed. The security guard got in front of me and said he wasn’t signing anymore after the two in front of me were done. Mind you, there was NO ONE behind me as I checked twice….and the security guard wasn’t budging. I returned my purchases because it was evident that my purchase/loyalty wasn’t important. I was only there for the day and was told to ‘come back tomorrow’…….but flying to Orlando again wasn’t happening. Sure left me with a bad taste of the US Mint again….😏
Wow! I'm shocked to hear this, and equally shocked that Hollis didn't step in to fix it. Totally obnoxious, no matter how many people were left.
In the past, and, basically, anywhere for that matter, if the person doing the signing had a cut-off, they would stop people from getting in line, but would ALWAYS accommodate anyone already in line.
I'm sorry this happened to you. It's just another sign that the Mint is becoming something other than what we all grew up with. For better or worse. Mostly worse.
Also, FWIW, given all the recent changes, I wouldn't want his autograph anyway, and wouldn't ask for it even if there was no line. But that's just me. I'm also not going to be chasing silver Liberty Bells, with no regrets, no matter what they do in the secondary market.
@HalfDime said:
The U.S. Mint's 7-day return period begins the day you receive your order. To qualify for a refund or exchange, your returned package must be postmarked within seven calendar days of that delivery date.
"This product is currently on back order and is estimated to ship on Thu Jul 16 2026."
So a day for some to get them and others maybe a week. Assuming all are ready to ship, then returns end about the end of the month (except for relistings).
Everyone still holding from order day at that point is locked in.
I just returned my BOTM 1/10oz set purchased on release day for “changed my mind” and no issues.
@NJCoin said:
That's going to seriously limit the flipping market.
Just a free option to send them back to the Mint, per the reseller article you helpfully posted. Hard to believe there is going to be organic demand for 6K of these at these prices. Or higher, which will be the plan for many all hot and bothered over these. TBD.
The mint tried it your way and it bombed. Get over it.
@NJCoin said:
That's going to seriously limit the flipping market.
Just a free option to send them back to the Mint, per the reseller article you helpfully posted. Hard to believe there is going to be organic demand for 6K of these at these prices. Or higher, which will be the plan for many all hot and bothered over these. TBD.
The mint tried it your way and it bombed. Get over it.
I am trying to cancel a back ordered BOM Gold Mercury dime set. Can’t find anywhere to do it and it’s ridiculous for them to ship me something I no longer want. I couldn’t find anything on the US Mint site about canceling a back order….. Anyone have any luck with this? Cheers, karl
@safari_dude said:
I am trying to cancel a back ordered BOM Gold Mercury dime set. Can’t find anywhere to do it and it’s ridiculous for them to ship me something I no longer want. I couldn’t find anything on the US Mint site about canceling a back order….. Anyone have any luck with this? Cheers, karl
Just give them a call, you may have to do it over the phone. That’s how I canceled mine when my buyer backed out.
@NJCoin said:
That's going to seriously limit the flipping market.
Just a free option to send them back to the Mint, per the reseller article you helpfully posted. Hard to believe there is going to be organic demand for 6K of these at these prices. Or higher, which will be the plan for many all hot and bothered over these. TBD.
The mint tried it your way and it bombed. Get over it.
How so?
No particular order, not necessarily exclusive to your perceived Mint ideals, and not the only examples of bombed Mint Policy.
1) Strike the full stated Mintage Limits... (bombed)
2) Price the core sets (proof/unc) so low, for so long that net income/seigniorage is zero or in the negative for stated product... (bombed)
3) Create unnecessary front office departments & jobs, ie; DEI/Equity - causing an unnecessarily high Selling, General and Administrative (SG&A) expense percentage... (bombed)
4) Fail to properly survey or to provide better options to collectors as to what they want, ie: BOM sets, Comics... (bombed)
@NJCoin said:
That's going to seriously limit the flipping market.
Just a free option to send them back to the Mint, per the reseller article you helpfully posted. Hard to believe there is going to be organic demand for 6K of these at these prices. Or higher, which will be the plan for many all hot and bothered over these. TBD.
The mint tried it your way and it bombed. Get over it.
How so?
No particular order, not necessarily exclusive to your perceived Mint ideals, and not the only examples of bombed Mint Policy.
1) Strike the full stated Mintage Limits... (bombed)
2) Price the core sets (proof/unc) so low, for so long that net income/seigniorage is zero or in the negative for stated product... (bombed)
3) Create unnecessary front office departments & jobs, ie; DEI/Equity - causing an unnecessarily high Selling, General and Administrative (SG&A) expense percentage... (bombed)
4) Fail to properly survey or to provide better options to collectors as to what they want, ie: BOM sets, Comics... (bombed)
🤣🤣🤣
FINALLY, some detail, But I', not sure what any of this has to do with me.
Who ever said that, if demand doesn't warrant? And what exactly is a "bomb" if it does?
Who ever lost money selling proof or uncirculated sets? To my knowledge, the only things the Mint makes that lose money are cents and nickels for circulation, and commemoratives where Congress dictates subjects and mintages. The Mint as a whole generates a TON of money for the Treasury.
What the hell does any of this have to do with me?
@NJCoin said:
Correct. I read the response, and I still don't. I think you guys have lost your minds.
Have we?
You have easily written a novel here about your views, and in that is enough for anyone who has a long history with the mint to likely conclude that it makes sense to say it.
It is crystal clear to me that the mint has tried it your way and it has bombed. They are moving on with you or without you.
@NJCoin said:
That's going to seriously limit the flipping market.
Just a free option to send them back to the Mint, per the reseller article you helpfully posted. Hard to believe there is going to be organic demand for 6K of these at these prices. Or higher, which will be the plan for many all hot and bothered over these. TBD.
The mint tried it your way and it bombed. Get over it.
How so?
No particular order, not necessarily exclusive to your perceived Mint ideals, and not the only examples of bombed Mint Policy.
1) Strike the full stated Mintage Limits... (bombed)
2) Price the core sets (proof/unc) so low, for so long that net income/seigniorage is zero or in the negative for stated product... (bombed)
3) Create unnecessary front office departments & jobs, ie; DEI/Equity - causing an unnecessarily high Selling, General and Administrative (SG&A) expense percentage... (bombed)
4) Fail to properly survey or to provide better options to collectors as to what they want, ie: BOM sets, Comics... (bombed)
🤣🤣🤣
FINALLY, some detail, But I', not sure what any of this has to do with me.
Who ever said that, if demand doesn't warrant? And what exactly is a "bomb" if it does?
Who ever lost money selling proof or uncirculated sets? To my knowledge, the only things the Mint makes that lose money are cents and nickels for circulation, and commemoratives where Congress dictates subjects and mintages. The Mint as a whole generates a TON of money for the Treasury.
What the hell does any of this have to do with me?
See #3.
Before the Mint raised the prices about 5 years ago, they did lose money every year on proof and uncirculated coin sets. They don't anymore.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@safari_dude said:
I am trying to cancel a back ordered BOM Gold Mercury dime set. Can’t find anywhere to do it and it’s ridiculous for them to ship me something I no longer want. I couldn’t find anything on the US Mint site about canceling a back order….. Anyone have any luck with this? Cheers, karl
Just give them a call, you may have to do it over the phone. That’s how I canceled mine when my buyer backed out.
Yes, you have to call. Very quick and easy if you do. I actually canceled a back order a couple of weeks ago because it was going to be shipped to my work address when I wouldn't be there to receive it.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@NJCoin said:
Correct. I read the response, and I still don't. I think you guys have lost your minds.
Have we?
You have easily written a novel here about your views, and in that is enough for anyone who has a long history with the mint to likely conclude that it makes sense to say it.
It is crystal clear to me that the mint has tried it your way and it has bombed. They are moving on with you or without you.
Yes. And my only view that you even captured partially correctly is that they should not short mint if demand exists up to their limit.
Whatever you are saying about alleged losses on base metal proof and uncirculated sets is unmitigated nonsense, and is an artifact of creative government accounting regarding the allocation of overhead. I PROMISE you that the marginal cost of producing between $3-6 of pocket change, packaging it, and then shipping it, is nowhere near what they used to charge, let alone what they squeeze people for now.
And, the other claptrap you attribute to me was just spun out of thin air. Not my issues, and I never posted about any of them. You are just pulling things out of your butts, which is what I thought when talking about "my way" and "bomb."
@NJCoin said:
That's going to seriously limit the flipping market.
Just a free option to send them back to the Mint, per the reseller article you helpfully posted. Hard to believe there is going to be organic demand for 6K of these at these prices. Or higher, which will be the plan for many all hot and bothered over these. TBD.
The mint tried it your way and it bombed. Get over it.
How so?
No particular order, not necessarily exclusive to your perceived Mint ideals, and not the only examples of bombed Mint Policy.
1) Strike the full stated Mintage Limits... (bombed)
2) Price the core sets (proof/unc) so low, for so long that net income/seigniorage is zero or in the negative for stated product... (bombed)
3) Create unnecessary front office departments & jobs, ie; DEI/Equity - causing an unnecessarily high Selling, General and Administrative (SG&A) expense percentage... (bombed)
4) Fail to properly survey or to provide better options to collectors as to what they want, ie: BOM sets, Comics... (bombed)
🤣🤣🤣
FINALLY, some detail, But I', not sure what any of this has to do with me.
Who ever said that, if demand doesn't warrant? And what exactly is a "bomb" if it does?
Who ever lost money selling proof or uncirculated sets? To my knowledge, the only things the Mint makes that lose money are cents and nickels for circulation, and commemoratives where Congress dictates subjects and mintages. The Mint as a whole generates a TON of money for the Treasury.
What the hell does any of this have to do with me?
See #3.
Before the Mint raised the prices about 5 years ago, they did lose money every year on proof and uncirculated coin sets. They don't anymore.
Yeah. See my response to the other comment. Only due to overhead and other fixed cost allocations that would need to be reallocated to other product anyway.
Not sure what kind of professor you are, but if it was in business, you'd know that production and pricing decisions are made based on marginal costs. Not fixed costs.
What the Mint is presently doing is squeezing customers, and creating a flip, but artificially reducing supply while increasing price. Especially now with the cents, they could easily sell a lot more, at a far lower price, and still hit their revenue and profit targets. They choose not to.
And, accusing me of advocating that they make more of anything than they could easily sell is simply not true. My complaint is when they post a mintage limit of x, sell out x-y in 10 minutes, and then don't make more.
Not that they should make 50K of something when they make 30K and only sell 20K. Never in a million years would I want them flooding the market with anything. I just want them satisfying the market, up to published limits, while not artificially restricting limits far below organic demand.
In short, I want them to cater to collectors. Not flippers, and not elitists looking for instant rarities. Nothing I have ever suggested was a "bomb," or would be for anyone other than flippers. Certainly not for the Mint, that could often sell a lot more of whatever at whatever price they are charging if they didn't create flips by restricting quantity.
@NJCoin said:
In short, I want them to cater to collectors. Not flippers, and not elitists looking for instant rarities. Nothing I have ever suggested was a "bomb," or would be for anyone other than flippers. Certainly not for the Mint, that could often sell a lot more of whatever at whatever price they are charging if they didn't create flips by restricting quantity.
The mint has the bullion program for people that want that. You can go to any dealer and buy all you want. That is not what the collector market is meant to be.
Let it sink in for once.
The mint tried it your way and it bombed. End of story.
And why did you initially claim nobody would want the liberty bells? Because they weren't round? LOLOLOL
@NJCoin said:
That's going to seriously limit the flipping market.
Just a free option to send them back to the Mint, per the reseller article you helpfully posted. Hard to believe there is going to be organic demand for 6K of these at these prices. Or higher, which will be the plan for many all hot and bothered over these. TBD.
The mint tried it your way and it bombed. Get over it.
How so?
No particular order, not necessarily exclusive to your perceived Mint ideals, and not the only examples of bombed Mint Policy.
1) Strike the full stated Mintage Limits... (bombed)
2) Price the core sets (proof/unc) so low, for so long that net income/seigniorage is zero or in the negative for stated product... (bombed)
3) Create unnecessary front office departments & jobs, ie; DEI/Equity - causing an unnecessarily high Selling, General and Administrative (SG&A) expense percentage... (bombed)
4) Fail to properly survey or to provide better options to collectors as to what they want, ie: BOM sets, Comics... (bombed)
🤣🤣🤣
FINALLY, some detail, But I', not sure what any of this has to do with me.
Who ever said that, if demand doesn't warrant? And what exactly is a "bomb" if it does?
Who ever lost money selling proof or uncirculated sets? To my knowledge, the only things the Mint makes that lose money are cents and nickels for circulation, and commemoratives where Congress dictates subjects and mintages. The Mint as a whole generates a TON of money for the Treasury.
What the hell does any of this have to do with me?
See #3.
Before the Mint raised the prices about 5 years ago, they did lose money every year on proof and uncirculated coin sets. They don't anymore.
Yeah. See my response to the other comment. Only due to overhead and other fixed cost allocations that would need to be reallocated to other product anyway.
Not sure what kind of professor you are, but if it was in business, you'd know that production and pricing decisions are made based on marginal costs. Not fixed costs.
What the Mint is presently doing is squeezing customers, and creating a flip, but artificially reducing supply while increasing price. Especially now with the cents, they could easily sell a lot more, at a far lower price, and still hit their revenue and profit targets. They choose not to.
And, accusing me of advocating that they make more of anything than they could easily sell is simply not true. My complaint is when they post a mintage limit of x, sell out x-y in 10 minutes, and then don't make more.
Not that they should make 50K of something when they make 30K and only sell 20K. Never in a million years would I want them flooding the market with anything. I just want them satisfying the market, up to published limits, while not artificially restricting limits far below organic demand.
In short, I want them to cater to collectors. Not flippers, and not elitists looking for instant rarities. Nothing I have ever suggested was a "bomb," or would be for anyone other than flippers. Certainly not for the Mint, that could often sell a lot more of whatever at whatever price they are charging if they didn't create flips by restricting quantity.
You originally said the mint sets this year were too expensive and they made too many so they wouldn’t do well. Now you’re saying the mint is artificially keeping mintage low on them. LOL 😆
@NJCoin said:
That's going to seriously limit the flipping market.
Just a free option to send them back to the Mint, per the reseller article you helpfully posted. Hard to believe there is going to be organic demand for 6K of these at these prices. Or higher, which will be the plan for many all hot and bothered over these. TBD.
The mint tried it your way and it bombed. Get over it.
How so?
No particular order, not necessarily exclusive to your perceived Mint ideals, and not the only examples of bombed Mint Policy.
1) Strike the full stated Mintage Limits... (bombed)
2) Price the core sets (proof/unc) so low, for so long that net income/seigniorage is zero or in the negative for stated product... (bombed)
3) Create unnecessary front office departments & jobs, ie; DEI/Equity - causing an unnecessarily high Selling, General and Administrative (SG&A) expense percentage... (bombed)
4) Fail to properly survey or to provide better options to collectors as to what they want, ie: BOM sets, Comics... (bombed)
🤣🤣🤣
FINALLY, some detail, But I', not sure what any of this has to do with me.
Who ever said that, if demand doesn't warrant? And what exactly is a "bomb" if it does?
Who ever lost money selling proof or uncirculated sets? To my knowledge, the only things the Mint makes that lose money are cents and nickels for circulation, and commemoratives where Congress dictates subjects and mintages. The Mint as a whole generates a TON of money for the Treasury.
What the hell does any of this have to do with me?
See #3.
Before the Mint raised the prices about 5 years ago, they did lose money every year on proof and uncirculated coin sets. They don't anymore.
Yeah. See my response to the other comment. Only due to overhead and other fixed cost allocations that would need to be reallocated to other product anyway.
Not sure what kind of professor you are, but if it was in business, you'd know that production and pricing decisions are made based on marginal costs. Not fixed costs.
What the Mint is presently doing is squeezing customers, and creating a flip, but artificially reducing supply while increasing price. Especially now with the cents, they could easily sell a lot more, at a far lower price, and still hit their revenue and profit targets. They choose not to.
And, accusing me of advocating that they make more of anything than they could easily sell is simply not true. My complaint is when they post a mintage limit of x, sell out x-y in 10 minutes, and then don't make more.
Not that they should make 50K of something when they make 30K and only sell 20K. Never in a million years would I want them flooding the market with anything. I just want them satisfying the market, up to published limits, while not artificially restricting limits far below organic demand.
In short, I want them to cater to collectors. Not flippers, and not elitists looking for instant rarities. Nothing I have ever suggested was a "bomb," or would be for anyone other than flippers. Certainly not for the Mint, that could often sell a lot more of whatever at whatever price they are charging if they didn't create flips by restricting quantity.
Dude...I just pointed out what they were referring to. Do you have to expand everything to a novel?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@NJCoin said:
Correct. I read the response, and I still don't. I think you guys have lost your minds.
Have we?
You have easily written a novel here about your views, and in that is enough for anyone who has a long history with the mint to likely conclude that it makes sense to say it.
It is crystal clear to me that the mint has tried it your way and it has bombed. They are moving on with you or without you.
Yes. And my only view that you even captured partially correctly is that they should not short mint if demand exists up to their limit.
Whatever you are saying about alleged losses on base metal proof and uncirculated sets is unmitigated nonsense, and is an artifact of creative government accounting regarding the allocation of overhead. I PROMISE you that the marginal cost of producing between $3-6 of pocket change, packaging it, and then shipping it, is nowhere near what they used to charge, let alone what they squeeze people for now.
And, the other claptrap you attribute to me was just spun out of thin air. Not my issues, and I never posted about any of them. You are just pulling things out of your butts, which is what I thought when talking about "my way" and "bomb."
Crystal clear indeed. 🤣🤣🤣
Actually, I can fully believe that the marginal cost of selling $6 worth of change is nearer the $18 to $22 they used to charge. They have to design and produce the packaging. They have to put the coins in the packages. They have to pay for payment processing, QC, CS, returns, sales and fulfillment services. They also pay postage for a large number of the sets shipped. They don't break out the numbers with that granularity, so you have ZERO actual information on the fixed vs variable costs.
I don't see the need to just ASSUME a reality that conforms to your preconceptions.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Comments
I just personally find the abuse of the free returns to be reprehensible. It's just a "me thing". I don't mind flippers. I do mind flippers effing up distribution with massive returns. It forever killed the 2017 EU sets. They ended up with 60,000+ returns out of 225,000 sets and it never recovered, even though it had initially "sold out".
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The mint is abusing its customers when marking up silver outrageously. These markups of liberty bells are an abuse. Just seeing some opportunities on these. I do not return mint products in general. In fact I rarely do even when I have bought most of the sequentials this year at roughly $700 when I will probably take a loss straight out of the gate.
Box of 20
So is it abuse when Louis Vitton charges $10k for a leather hand bag? Or just charging what the market will bear?
People just feel that they should be entitled to buy what they want at the price they want to pay. I have a hard time finding sympathy. If you don't like the $10k price tag, you just pass on the LV bag.
The only Mint issue I'll even listen to the complaint is the Mint set because the Mint is required to make those. NONE of these other coins need to be made at all. So, buy them if you want them, ignore them if you don't.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
ats for the silver Liberty Bell is 2026 so this is good news as all will be limited to one. The one ounce gold is also 2026.
I’ve got my card loaded and ready to go. I’ll try to get the half ounce silver metal when it’s available and see what happens.
unless someone besides pure is offering, i wouldn't buy and see what happens
I hope others follow your lead. I personally think they will be a really hard one to get. I’m going to have several trying to buy for me.
I only have myself trying to snag a silver metal .... If I should get one , I will be happy . If not I will be ok !
None set aside for Big Boys, and no Big Boys soliciting you to buy tells you nothing? Tells me that all the buying is going to be speculative, with no solid buy offers on the other side. And Big Boys apparently staying away. That's going to seriously limit the flipping market.
Just a free option to send them back to the Mint, per the reseller article you helpfully posted. Hard to believe there is going to be organic demand for 6K of these at these prices. Or higher, which will be the plan for many all hot and bothered over these. TBD.
Buying groups are firing up their engines and spreading word about these. No one is guaranteeing a price in advance because the market is unknown. There will be a frenzy for the silvers, that's for sure, but I'm pretty confident flippers will also grab gold if they can.
Too bad the mint can’t reward faithful customers that have been buying for years instead of letting flippers and uninterested parties clog the system for the chance to make a few quick bucks…..🤔😏
If they are not guaranteeing a price in advance, what are they doing, other than encouraging other people to risk their money on a maybe, using the Mint's return policy as an insurance policy? Is that really going to get people to put $750 on a credit card for a half ounce of silver?
If so, then, yeah, it's going to seriously diminish the odds of getting one for those who actually want them. But, given how expensive they already are, good luck to the buyers clubs when it comes to flipping to someone they boxed out at release.
People fail to understand that the backbone of the flipping market is Big Boy dealers buying inventory they cannot otherwise get their hands on. If they have no interest in these, because there are too few of them, at too high a price, to make marketing them worth their time and money, then the flippers are left flipping to FOMO retail buyers. And no one really knows whether that market will develop, and at what price. Certainly the people behind the buyers clubs don't have a clue.
I wouldn't be "pretty confident" about the gold because, at the same mintage but at 13x and 26x the price, there really isn't much of a flip in them regardless. $20K for a one ounce gold coin with a mintage of 2K is simply no bargain to begin with. People who can't live without one will buy one, but there is not going to be a flipping market for 2K of them at a premium to that price.
Same for the half ounce gold. Silver is TBD, because the market for that is unknown. People are comparing to other silver things with similar mintages, but they are very different things. That said, $750 is doable for people in a way that $10K and $20K are not, and a 2K mintage for a $750 item is a very different thing than the same mintage for $10K and $20K items that have so little intrinsic value relative to the price.
So, sure, it looks like people are going to be taking a shot. I still don't think anyone is actually going to want to own them, but lots of folks might take a perceived risk free shot at flipping them. Especially if the buyers clubs are egging them on.
They could. But, at the end of the day, like Knicks season ticket holders cashing in on flipping playoff tickets, you can rest assured that, for something like this, it would just be the "faithful customers that have been buying for years" who would be making the "few quick bucks."
VERY few people who buy directly from the Mint will end up with these in their collections long term. No matter who the initial buyers are.
Because there are no long time faithful customers for something like this, and the people buying base metal proof sets for $40 are not the same people buying $750 half ounce silver Liberty Bells to add to their collections.
Define faithful. There are numerous flippers who buy 10x as much product as your "faithful ". Maybe they should be rewarded 10x as much?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Kinda of agree although we DO have a few posters here that are interested in adding to their collections as I am, but for whatever reason the flippers market ends up costing way more than they/myself would pay. Yesterday at the FUN show in Orlando, the US Mint director was signing any COA’s or boxes for purchases made there. I bought the reverse proof Peace and Morgan dollars that had just been released and stood in line. I was the last person in line and was two from having my COA’s signed. The security guard got in front of me and said he wasn’t signing anymore after the two in front of me were done. Mind you, there was NO ONE behind me as I checked twice….and the security guard wasn’t budging. I returned my purchases because it was evident that my purchase/loyalty wasn’t important. I was only there for the day and was told to ‘come back tomorrow’…….but flying to Orlando again wasn’t happening. Sure left me with a bad taste of the US Mint again….😏
The word “flippers” doesn’t come across as a faithful customer. The greediness in this field is really pushing a lot of collectors out of it in my opinion. Not sure why so many are okay with that. Maybe I’m wrong, but I’d think customer loyalty should have at least some benefit in these sales…..
You don't think of it that way. Many are equally negative, but not all. I flip 10x more than I keep, but I've been buying from the Mint for 30+ years FAITHFULLY.
And, even "true collectors" occasionally flip but sometimes don't consider themselves "flippers".
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
You can read what one of them is saying here: https://milesperday.com/2026/07/us-mint-releasing-liberty-bell-coins-on-7-16-26/
Don't underestimate the points & miles credit card community!
They'll leap at the prospect of knocking out the $20k minimum spend requirement for an Amex Business Platinum sign up bonus in one shot. One transaction to earn a bonus worth at least $3k, plus rewards from the purchase worth an additional $400 (that card earns 2x on transactions $5k+). This is without any profit from reselling. If it's a dud, the credit card rewards cushion will be factored in before doing a return.
I'm not saying it's risk free - the golds could be a bust. Just trying to help explain why come release day, there could be a sizable crowd online.
The U.S. Mint's 7-day return period begins the day you receive your order. To qualify for a refund or exchange, your returned package must be postmarked within seven calendar days of that delivery date.
"This product is currently on back order and is estimated to ship on Thu Jul 16 2026."
So a day for some to get them and others maybe a week. Assuming all are ready to ship, then returns end about the end of the month (except for relistings).
Everyone still holding from order day at that point is locked in.
Oh, I bet you can still return it later, if you push the issue.
Worst case scenario, claim SNAD and file a charge back.
Since we're abusing the Mint, why stop at 7 days. 🤣
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
This thing is rattling around in my head like a bell clapper. ( there's lots of room).
I think I'm in for the silver.
Wow! I'm shocked to hear this, and equally shocked that Hollis didn't step in to fix it. Totally obnoxious, no matter how many people were left.
In the past, and, basically, anywhere for that matter, if the person doing the signing had a cut-off, they would stop people from getting in line, but would ALWAYS accommodate anyone already in line.
I'm sorry this happened to you. It's just another sign that the Mint is becoming something other than what we all grew up with. For better or worse. Mostly worse.
Also, FWIW, given all the recent changes, I wouldn't want his autograph anyway, and wouldn't ask for it even if there was no line. But that's just me. I'm also not going to be chasing silver Liberty Bells, with no regrets, no matter what they do in the secondary market.
I just returned my BOTM 1/10oz set purchased on release day for “changed my mind” and no issues.
The mint tried it your way and it bombed. Get over it.
How so?
I went to a debate once , and a coin forum broke out
I am trying to cancel a back ordered BOM Gold Mercury dime set. Can’t find anywhere to do it and it’s ridiculous for them to ship me something I no longer want. I couldn’t find anything on the US Mint site about canceling a back order….. Anyone have any luck with this? Cheers, karl
Just give them a call, you may have to do it over the phone. That’s how I canceled mine when my buyer backed out.
No particular order, not necessarily exclusive to your perceived Mint ideals, and not the only examples of bombed Mint Policy.
1) Strike the full stated Mintage Limits... (bombed)
2) Price the core sets (proof/unc) so low, for so long that net income/seigniorage is zero or in the negative for stated product... (bombed)
3) Create unnecessary front office departments & jobs, ie; DEI/Equity - causing an unnecessarily high Selling, General and Administrative (SG&A) expense percentage... (bombed)
4) Fail to properly survey or to provide better options to collectors as to what they want, ie: BOM sets, Comics... (bombed)
Too many acronyms for me.... What is BOM sets ?
Best of Mint …it’s the start of the gold series with a medal accompanying it. The first is the gold 1916 Mercury dime with a silver medal.
We have a new record, NJCoin has finally given only a two word post here. Not in a million posts would I have guessed it was ever possible.
Even more amazing is he can't figure out how the mint tried it his way, and it bombed.
Thank you !
🤣🤣🤣
FINALLY, some detail, But I', not sure what any of this has to do with me.
Correct. I read the response, and I still don't. I think you guys have lost your minds.
Have we?
You have easily written a novel here about your views, and in that is enough for anyone who has a long history with the mint to likely conclude that it makes sense to say it.
It is crystal clear to me that the mint has tried it your way and it has bombed. They are moving on with you or without you.
You can buy commem $5 gold with mintages in the same vicinity for small premiums to melt. Seems like a much better play to me.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Yes, you have to call. Very quick and easy if you do. I actually canceled a back order a couple of weeks ago because it was going to be shipped to my work address when I wouldn't be there to receive it.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Yes. And my only view that you even captured partially correctly is that they should not short mint if demand exists up to their limit.
Whatever you are saying about alleged losses on base metal proof and uncirculated sets is unmitigated nonsense, and is an artifact of creative government accounting regarding the allocation of overhead. I PROMISE you that the marginal cost of producing between $3-6 of pocket change, packaging it, and then shipping it, is nowhere near what they used to charge, let alone what they squeeze people for now.
And, the other claptrap you attribute to me was just spun out of thin air. Not my issues, and I never posted about any of them. You are just pulling things out of your butts, which is what I thought when talking about "my way" and "bomb."
Crystal clear indeed. 🤣🤣🤣
Yeah. See my response to the other comment. Only due to overhead and other fixed cost allocations that would need to be reallocated to other product anyway.
Not sure what kind of professor you are, but if it was in business, you'd know that production and pricing decisions are made based on marginal costs. Not fixed costs.
What the Mint is presently doing is squeezing customers, and creating a flip, but artificially reducing supply while increasing price. Especially now with the cents, they could easily sell a lot more, at a far lower price, and still hit their revenue and profit targets. They choose not to.
And, accusing me of advocating that they make more of anything than they could easily sell is simply not true. My complaint is when they post a mintage limit of x, sell out x-y in 10 minutes, and then don't make more.
Not that they should make 50K of something when they make 30K and only sell 20K. Never in a million years would I want them flooding the market with anything. I just want them satisfying the market, up to published limits, while not artificially restricting limits far below organic demand.
In short, I want them to cater to collectors. Not flippers, and not elitists looking for instant rarities. Nothing I have ever suggested was a "bomb," or would be for anyone other than flippers. Certainly not for the Mint, that could often sell a lot more of whatever at whatever price they are charging if they didn't create flips by restricting quantity.
The mint has the bullion program for people that want that. You can go to any dealer and buy all you want. That is not what the collector market is meant to be.
Let it sink in for once.
The mint tried it your way and it bombed. End of story.
And why did you initially claim nobody would want the liberty bells? Because they weren't round? LOLOLOL
You originally said the mint sets this year were too expensive and they made too many so they wouldn’t do well. Now you’re saying the mint is artificially keeping mintage low on them. LOL 😆
Dude...I just pointed out what they were referring to. Do you have to expand everything to a novel?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Actually, I can fully believe that the marginal cost of selling $6 worth of change is nearer the $18 to $22 they used to charge. They have to design and produce the packaging. They have to put the coins in the packages. They have to pay for payment processing, QC, CS, returns, sales and fulfillment services. They also pay postage for a large number of the sets shipped. They don't break out the numbers with that granularity, so you have ZERO actual information on the fixed vs variable costs.
I don't see the need to just ASSUME a reality that conforms to your preconceptions.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
This is a speculative buy period.
There are no comps so if it fails and you said it would you guessed right.
If it succeeds and you said it would you guessed right.
This is why even a focus group study will not do you much good.
Boils down to the Mint is very confident in the brand.
More likely they won’t come close to selling out.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.