Also, one thing that has not been mentioned is the Liberty bells are proofs, and as such normally sell more than mint state coins. it is about 50%, but varies by a lot. So if we go by 50% that means 2026 proofs would be 1350 mint state. Will it matter with these? We will see.
Also, one thing that has not been mentioned is the Liberty bells are proofs, and as such normally sell more than mint state coins. it is about 50%, but varies by a lot. So if we go by 50% that means 2026 proofs would be 1350 mint state. Will it matter with these? We will see.
You REALLY don't need to keep promoting them. Just keep it on the down low, and grab as many as you can for yourself. Why do you need validation from the forum?
Because, I'll tell you, while Coin Week was linking them to Pan Pac, Magic Mike was on TV linking them to the beautiful monstrosity linked below:
Mike's coin, of course, being the much better deal, due to the lower price and higher silver content.
The fact is that the Liberty Bell is in many ways similar to Mike's coin. Except Mike's coin is prettier, colorized, and comes in nicer packaging. An indictment of what the Mint is becoming with things like this. So, pimp away.
But, if you take off the rose colored glasses, there really isn't much difference between a gimmicky coin shaped like the Continental US and one shaped like a Liberty Bell. Both made in very limited quantities. Both sold at large premiums to intrinsic value. The Mint's version sold at a far larger premium due to lower mintage and far higher implied demand. We'll have to see about that.
Yes, I get anything made by the Mint will have a larger audience than PAMP enjoys. But still, peel the onion and see both products for the cynical money grab they are. You don't need to whip up interest. Either it will be there or it won't.
Also, one thing that has not been mentioned is the Liberty bells are proofs, and as such normally sell more than mint state coins. it is about 50%, but varies by a lot. So if we go by 50% that means 2026 proofs would be 1350 mint state. Will it matter with these? We will see.
You REALLY don't need to keep promoting them. Just keep it on the down low, and grab as many as you can for yourself. Why do you need validation from the forum?
Because, I'll tell you, while Coin Week was linking them to Pan Pac, Magic Mike was on TV linking them to the beautiful monstrosity linked below:
Mike's coin, of course, being the much better deal, due to the lower price and higher silver content.
The fact is that the Liberty Bell is in many ways similar to Mike's coin. Except Mike's coin is prettier, colorized, and comes in nicer packaging. An indictment of what the Mint is becoming with things like this. So, pimp away.
But, if you take off the rose colored glasses, there really isn't much difference between a gimmicky coin shaped like the Continental US and one shaped like a Liberty Bell. Both made in very limited quantities. Both sold at large premiums to intrinsic value. The Mint's version sold at a far larger premium due to lower mintage and far higher implied demand. We'll have to see about that.
Yes, I get anything made by the Mint will have a larger audience than PAMP enjoys. But still, peel the onion and see both products for the cynical money grab they are. You don't need to whip up interest. Either it will be there or it won't.
I’m anxious to see it play out. It’s not something I want for my collection. If I did buy one it would be with the intention of flipping it to put towards something else that I would keep. We know that the silver is already a flipper’s desire (that shared article from earlier in the week)
I’m just going to watch this one from the sidelines but I wish everyone luck getting one, no matter if they are keeping it forever or trying to flip it.
The silver is a a goner in under 5 minutes. The golds…..????
@NJCoin said:
But, if you take off the rose colored glasses, there really isn't much difference between a gimmicky coin shaped like the Continental US and one shaped like a Liberty Bell. Both made in very limited quantities. Both sold at large premiums to intrinsic value. The Mint's version sold at a far larger premium due to lower mintage and far higher implied demand. We'll have to see about that.
This is like saying little league has no difference with MLB. The difference here is one comes from the US Mint, and the other is a foreign issue. That is all the difference in the world. But if you don't know the difference I can't help you.
@NJCoin said:
But, if you take off the rose colored glasses, there really isn't much difference between a gimmicky coin shaped like the Continental US and one shaped like a Liberty Bell. Both made in very limited quantities. Both sold at large premiums to intrinsic value. The Mint's version sold at a far larger premium due to lower mintage and far higher implied demand. We'll have to see about that.
This is like saying little league has no difference with MLB. The difference here is one comes from the US Mint, and the other is a foreign issue. That is all the difference in the world. But if you don't know the difference I can't help you.
No. It's like saying a trinket isn't a trinket, just because it is made by the Mint. But if you don't see the similarities, I can't help you.
Yes, of course there will be a difference. One is a one ounce, 3,000 mintage monstrosity being offered on TV for $250, and elsewhere for as low as $135. Not sold out.
The other is a half ounce, 2,000 mintage monstrosity being offered directly by the Mint for $750. Absolutely always far more interest in Mint product than PAMP product, but that's not a guarantee that there will be a lot of interest in anything so unique, and shlocky, at that price, just because they aren't making a lot of them. Other than from people like you disrespecting your fellow citizens and thinking other dummies will be willing to buy them from you for even more.
That's a huge TBD. But, to the extent you are a true believer, you really don't need to keep coming here hyping them. People who are thinking like you will already be chasing them. Others won't.
And, again, I really don't see anyone, anywhere, claiming they are keepers. Everyone excited about them, including you, just thinks they are a low mintage flip. Still waiting for the Pinehurst buy offer to hit my inbox.
@NJCoin said:
No. It's like saying a trinket isn't a trinket, just because it is made by the Mint. But if you don't see the similarities, I can't help you.
CoinWeek calls the gold ones coins. Coins aren't trinkets, just like coins aren't medals. These will go down in the US coin books as coins. What HSN is selling are not US coins. Isn't it very ironic you are comparing HSN as a bastion of numismatics now when you bashed them in the D Carr thread repeatedly?
@NJCoin said:
No. It's like saying a trinket isn't a trinket, just because it is made by the Mint. But if you don't see the similarities, I can't help you.
CoinWeek calls the gold ones coins. Coins aren't trinkets, just like coins aren't medals. These will go down in the US coin books as coins. What HSN is selling are not US coins. Isn't it very ironic you are comparing HSN as a bastion of numismatics now when you bashed them in the D Carr thread repeatedly?
Sorry, but coins shaped like odd objects are trinkets. According to me. I go by what coins have looked like throughout history, and certainly the history of the US. Not by what PAMP and the Mint are redefining it to be today.
It's a coin because it has been monetized. Not because it's any more a coin than the silver Liberty Bell medal, or the Solomon Islands Continental US "coin" that has the King Charles effigy and a Solomon Islands Dollar denomination.
Good luck chasing the gold. I don't see them selling out at the obnoxious prices they will be charging. Because, no matter how low the mintage, there is no flip in a half ounce of gold that is starting at $10K, or a full ounce at $20K. And, again, no one really thinks they will be keepers.
These are not 1907 High Relief Double Eagles here. Or V75 AGEs, or FH gold privies, no matter how much you want them to be. They are very expensive trinkets.
And no, not "very ironic you are comparing HSN as a bastion of numismatics now when you bashed them in the D Carr thread repeatedly." You are missing the point. I mention it to make the point that the Liberty Bells are in the same class as the crap he is currently peddling on TV, and he is making the explicit connection for me.
@NJCoin said:
Good luck chasing the gold. I don't see them selling out at the obnoxious prices they will be charging. Because, no matter how low the mintage, there is no flip in a half ounce of gold that is starting at $10K, or a full ounce at $20K. And, again, no one really thinks they will be keepers.
I wouldn't count on that If i was you. These are a one year issue special only for now, and will not be done again. As such all interest will have to be with the 2026 versions alone, and no more. If someone wants to own one, they have to buy one of the three releases. Some will want all three. Nobody wanted the panpacs back then, and now why are they do valuable? You sound like the critics of the panpacs. That didn't work out too well for them.
@NJCoin said:
No. It's like saying a trinket isn't a trinket, just because it is made by the Mint. But if you don't see the similarities, I can't help you.
CoinWeek calls the gold ones coins. Coins aren't trinkets, just like coins aren't medals. These will go down in the US coin books as coins. What HSN is selling are not US coins. Isn't it very ironic you are comparing HSN as a bastion of numismatics now when you bashed them in the D Carr thread repeatedly?
Sorry, but coins shaped like odd objects are trinkets. According to me. I go by what coins have looked like throughout history, and certainly the history of the US. Not by what PAMP and the Mint are redefining it to be today.
It's a coin because it has been monetized. Not because it's any more a coin than the silver Liberty Bell medal, or the Solomon Islands Continental US "coin" that has the King Charles effigy and a Solomon Islands Dollar denomination.
Good luck chasing the gold. I don't see them selling out at the obnoxious prices they will be charging. Because, no matter how low the mintage, there is no flip in a half ounce of gold that is starting at $10K, or a full ounce at $20K. And, again, no one really thinks they will be keepers.
These are not 1907 High Relief Double Eagles here. Or V75 AGEs, or FH gold privies, no matter how much you want them to be. They are very expensive trinkets.
And no, not "very ironic you are comparing HSN as a bastion of numismatics now when you bashed them in the D Carr thread repeatedly." You are missing the point. I mention it to make the point that the Liberty Bells are in the same class as the crap he is currently peddling on TV, and he is making the explicit connection for me.
Says you. The reality is that this is the first non-traditional coin or medal product ever for the US Mint. We don't know how it will be received. Your crystal ball is notoriously defective. With the backing of the US Mint it has the possibility of being wildly successful, even at these price points.
@NJCoin said:
No. It's like saying a trinket isn't a trinket, just because it is made by the Mint. But if you don't see the similarities, I can't help you.
CoinWeek calls the gold ones coins. Coins aren't trinkets, just like coins aren't medals. These will go down in the US coin books as coins. What HSN is selling are not US coins. Isn't it very ironic you are comparing HSN as a bastion of numismatics now when you bashed them in the D Carr thread repeatedly?
Sorry, but coins shaped like odd objects are trinkets. According to me. I go by what coins have looked like throughout history, and certainly the history of the US. Not by what PAMP and the Mint are redefining it to be today.
It's a coin because it has been monetized. Not because it's any more a coin than the silver Liberty Bell medal, or the Solomon Islands Continental US "coin" that has the King Charles effigy and a Solomon Islands Dollar denomination.
Good luck chasing the gold. I don't see them selling out at the obnoxious prices they will be charging. Because, no matter how low the mintage, there is no flip in a half ounce of gold that is starting at $10K, or a full ounce at $20K. And, again, no one really thinks they will be keepers.
These are not 1907 High Relief Double Eagles here. Or V75 AGEs, or FH gold privies, no matter how much you want them to be. They are very expensive trinkets.
And no, not "very ironic you are comparing HSN as a bastion of numismatics now when you bashed them in the D Carr thread repeatedly." You are missing the point. I mention it to make the point that the Liberty Bells are in the same class as the crap he is currently peddling on TV, and he is making the explicit connection for me.
Coins have not always been round. That's a late European bias. I don't think the shape is relevant.
I will admit, NCLT are coins in monetization only. But the round "trinkets" are as questionable as the non-round ones.
The fact is that monetization by the US Mint, no matter how gimmicky, makes a difference in the market. Maybe not to you, but that isn't really the question.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@NJCoin said:
No. It's like saying a trinket isn't a trinket, just because it is made by the Mint. But if you don't see the similarities, I can't help you.
CoinWeek calls the gold ones coins. Coins aren't trinkets, just like coins aren't medals. These will go down in the US coin books as coins. What HSN is selling are not US coins. Isn't it very ironic you are comparing HSN as a bastion of numismatics now when you bashed them in the D Carr thread repeatedly?
Sorry, but coins shaped like odd objects are trinkets. According to me. I go by what coins have looked like throughout history, and certainly the history of the US. Not by what PAMP and the Mint are redefining it to be today.
It's a coin because it has been monetized. Not because it's any more a coin than the silver Liberty Bell medal, or the Solomon Islands Continental US "coin" that has the King Charles effigy and a Solomon Islands Dollar denomination.
Good luck chasing the gold. I don't see them selling out at the obnoxious prices they will be charging. Because, no matter how low the mintage, there is no flip in a half ounce of gold that is starting at $10K, or a full ounce at $20K. And, again, no one really thinks they will be keepers.
These are not 1907 High Relief Double Eagles here. Or V75 AGEs, or FH gold privies, no matter how much you want them to be. They are very expensive trinkets.
And no, not "very ironic you are comparing HSN as a bastion of numismatics now when you bashed them in the D Carr thread repeatedly." You are missing the point. I mention it to make the point that the Liberty Bells are in the same class as the crap he is currently peddling on TV, and he is making the explicit connection for me.
Says you. The reality is that this is the first non-traditional coin or medal product ever for the US Mint. We don't know how it will be received. Your crystal ball is notoriously defective. With the backing of the US Mint it has the possibility of being wildly successful, even at these price points.
Absolutely. We don't know how it will be received. I stated an opinion, and have repeatedly stated I might be wrong.
On the other side, all I see is "2026; big winner. FH silver privy medal. Big winner. V75 AGE. Big winner."
I'm saying demand might not be there, and that I don't hear anyone saying that they want to own them. Only that they have incredibly low mintages, and will therefore represent incredibly lucrative flips.
And I'm saying that's predicated on people needing to add very expensive low mintage novelty trinkets to their collections. Not just a bunch of flippers flipping to each other.
Just go back and search my posts for the number of times I have said TBD. TBD.
I'm not "saysing" anything, beyond that I think these are hot garbage. Doesn't mean 6078 people with money to burn won't become the receptacles of a lucrative flip.
I have now repeatedly said that I agree that the silver will be a quick sell out, due to all the flippers thinking they have something here. I also currently doubt that they do, since I don't see any dealers having any interest in buying right now, and don't see anyone saying they will be highly valued additions to their collections at $750. Just that things with comparable mintages that are nothing like this sell for thousands, so these obviously will as well
As for the gold, the Mint's odd choice of not scaling mintage to selling price means that what is a low mintage at $750 is not so low at $10K or $20K. So I honestly don't see the golds selling out, since I really don't think anyone is going to be chasing any of these to keep, and it seems pretty obvious that the risk/reward is not going to be there for a flip starting at $10-20K.
Not sure that it's relevant, but also not sure that it isn't. The new issue of Coin World has an article on the Mint World Cup offerings. Very anemic sales for all of them, although the World Cup itself is extremely popular.
Yes, maximum mintages are high, but actual mintages are going to be very low. Why isn't everyone pointing to Pan Pac looking to World Cup for a score, at much lower price points than Liberty Bells, with far higher intrinsic values? Because they are all Pavlovian dogs, responding to a maximum mintage figure without even considering possible lack of demand at a stupid high starting price point? TBD. Especially on gold coins at those highly obnoxious prices.
@NJCoin said:
No. It's like saying a trinket isn't a trinket, just because it is made by the Mint. But if you don't see the similarities, I can't help you.
CoinWeek calls the gold ones coins. Coins aren't trinkets, just like coins aren't medals. These will go down in the US coin books as coins. What HSN is selling are not US coins. Isn't it very ironic you are comparing HSN as a bastion of numismatics now when you bashed them in the D Carr thread repeatedly?
Sorry, but coins shaped like odd objects are trinkets. According to me. I go by what coins have looked like throughout history, and certainly the history of the US. Not by what PAMP and the Mint are redefining it to be today.
It's a coin because it has been monetized. Not because it's any more a coin than the silver Liberty Bell medal, or the Solomon Islands Continental US "coin" that has the King Charles effigy and a Solomon Islands Dollar denomination.
Good luck chasing the gold. I don't see them selling out at the obnoxious prices they will be charging. Because, no matter how low the mintage, there is no flip in a half ounce of gold that is starting at $10K, or a full ounce at $20K. And, again, no one really thinks they will be keepers.
These are not 1907 High Relief Double Eagles here. Or V75 AGEs, or FH gold privies, no matter how much you want them to be. They are very expensive trinkets.
And no, not "very ironic you are comparing HSN as a bastion of numismatics now when you bashed them in the D Carr thread repeatedly." You are missing the point. I mention it to make the point that the Liberty Bells are in the same class as the crap he is currently peddling on TV, and he is making the explicit connection for me.
Says you. The reality is that this is the first non-traditional coin or medal product ever for the US Mint. We don't know how it will be received. Your crystal ball is notoriously defective. With the backing of the US Mint it has the possibility of being wildly successful, even at these price points.
Absolutely. We don't know how it will be received. I stated an opinion, and have repeatedly stated I might be wrong.
On the other side, all I see is "2026; big winner. FH silver privy medal. Big winner. V75 AGE. Big winner."
I'm saying demand might not be there, and that I don't hear anyone saying that they want to own them. Only that they have incredibly low mintages, and will therefore represent incredibly lucrative flips.
And I'm saying that's predicated on people needing to add very expensive low mintage novelty trinkets to their collections. Not just a bunch of flippers flipping to each other.
Just go back and search my posts for the number of times I have said TBD. TBD.
I'm not "saysing" anything, beyond that I think these are hot garbage. Doesn't mean 6078 people with money to burn won't become the receptacles of a lucrative flip.
I have now repeatedly said that I agree that the silver will be a quick sell out, due to all the flippers thinking they have something here. I also currently doubt that they do, since I don't see any dealers having any interest in buying right now, and don't see anyone saying they will be highly valued additions to their collections at $750. Just that things with comparable mintages that are nothing like this sell for thousands, so these obviously will as well
As for the gold, the Mint's odd choice of not scaling mintage to selling price means that what is a low mintage at $750 is not so low at $10K or $20K. So I honestly don't see the golds selling out, since I really don't think anyone is going to be chasing any of these to keep, and it seems pretty obvious that the risk/reward is not going to be there for a flip starting at $10-20K.
Not sure that it's relevant, but also not sure that it isn't. The new issue of Coin World has an article on the Mint World Cup offerings. Very anemic sales for all of them, although the World Cup itself is extremely popular.
Yes, maximum mintages are high, but actual mintages are going to be very low. Why isn't everyone pointing to Pan Pac looking to World Cup for a score, at much lower price points than Liberty Bells, with far higher intrinsic values? Because they are all Pavlovian dogs, responding to a maximum mintage figure without even considering possible lack of demand at a stupid high starting price point? TBD. Especially on gold coins at those highly obnoxious prices.
Multiple people including me have said they will be adding the silver to their collection. And you have acknowledged at least one of them. Now you’re saying you haven’t seen anyone wanting them for their collections.
@NJCoin said:
No. It's like saying a trinket isn't a trinket, just because it is made by the Mint. But if you don't see the similarities, I can't help you.
CoinWeek calls the gold ones coins. Coins aren't trinkets, just like coins aren't medals. These will go down in the US coin books as coins. What HSN is selling are not US coins. Isn't it very ironic you are comparing HSN as a bastion of numismatics now when you bashed them in the D Carr thread repeatedly?
Sorry, but coins shaped like odd objects are trinkets. According to me. I go by what coins have looked like throughout history, and certainly the history of the US. Not by what PAMP and the Mint are redefining it to be today.
It's a coin because it has been monetized. Not because it's any more a coin than the silver Liberty Bell medal, or the Solomon Islands Continental US "coin" that has the King Charles effigy and a Solomon Islands Dollar denomination.
Good luck chasing the gold. I don't see them selling out at the obnoxious prices they will be charging. Because, no matter how low the mintage, there is no flip in a half ounce of gold that is starting at $10K, or a full ounce at $20K. And, again, no one really thinks they will be keepers.
These are not 1907 High Relief Double Eagles here. Or V75 AGEs, or FH gold privies, no matter how much you want them to be. They are very expensive trinkets.
And no, not "very ironic you are comparing HSN as a bastion of numismatics now when you bashed them in the D Carr thread repeatedly." You are missing the point. I mention it to make the point that the Liberty Bells are in the same class as the crap he is currently peddling on TV, and he is making the explicit connection for me.
Says you. The reality is that this is the first non-traditional coin or medal product ever for the US Mint. We don't know how it will be received. Your crystal ball is notoriously defective. With the backing of the US Mint it has the possibility of being wildly successful, even at these price points.
Absolutely. We don't know how it will be received. I stated an opinion, and have repeatedly stated I might be wrong.
On the other side, all I see is "2026; big winner. FH silver privy medal. Big winner. V75 AGE. Big winner."
I'm saying demand might not be there, and that I don't hear anyone saying that they want to own them. Only that they have incredibly low mintages, and will therefore represent incredibly lucrative flips.
And I'm saying that's predicated on people needing to add very expensive low mintage novelty trinkets to their collections. Not just a bunch of flippers flipping to each other.
Just go back and search my posts for the number of times I have said TBD. TBD.
I'm not "saysing" anything, beyond that I think these are hot garbage. Doesn't mean 6078 people with money to burn won't become the receptacles of a lucrative flip.
I have now repeatedly said that I agree that the silver will be a quick sell out, due to all the flippers thinking they have something here. I also currently doubt that they do, since I don't see any dealers having any interest in buying right now, and don't see anyone saying they will be highly valued additions to their collections at $750. Just that things with comparable mintages that are nothing like this sell for thousands, so these obviously will as well
As for the gold, the Mint's odd choice of not scaling mintage to selling price means that what is a low mintage at $750 is not so low at $10K or $20K. So I honestly don't see the golds selling out, since I really don't think anyone is going to be chasing any of these to keep, and it seems pretty obvious that the risk/reward is not going to be there for a flip starting at $10-20K.
Not sure that it's relevant, but also not sure that it isn't. The new issue of Coin World has an article on the Mint World Cup offerings. Very anemic sales for all of them, although the World Cup itself is extremely popular.
Yes, maximum mintages are high, but actual mintages are going to be very low. Why isn't everyone pointing to Pan Pac looking to World Cup for a score, at much lower price points than Liberty Bells, with far higher intrinsic values? Because they are all Pavlovian dogs, responding to a maximum mintage figure without even considering possible lack of demand at a stupid high starting price point? TBD. Especially on gold coins at those highly obnoxious prices.
Multiple people including me have said they will be adding the silver to their collection. And you have acknowledged at least one of them. Now you’re saying you haven’t seen anyone wanting them for their collections.
Yeah, we'll see. Sorry that I keep forgetting about you while getting caught up in the debate.
The fact remains that the major use case seems to be the flip. It's not the usual thing where people are talking about having them graded, saving them for grand kids, etc.
You're the exception, not the rule here. And, good for you. I really hope you don't end up buried in a half ounce silver bell.
@NJCoin said:
I'm saying demand might not be there, and that I don't hear anyone saying that they want to own them. Only that they have incredibly low mintages, and will therefore represent incredibly lucrative flips.
Nobody here knows if they will get past the rickety website to order any, so how can they tell you they will own one for sure now? They may not even get one if they want it if these sell out ASAP. I doubt I get any, but I will if I get through the hoops the mint throws up.
@mach19 said:
With the price of the privy quarters .... one would think the silver metal will be a hit on the market
Not comparable. The quarter is a coin that is part of a long running, collected series. The liberty bell is a stand alone offering that's not part of any widely collected series: US Mint medals.
Supply must always be viewed relative to demand. It remains to be seen how much demand there is.
You've probably also seen the highs for the quarters. It is unlikely that it's a $1000 coin moving forward.
I think it's likely the silver bells sell out. I thick it's equally likely that it's below issue price in s couple years. But it's just really hard to know because they're really aren't any ideal comps.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@NJCoin said:
No. It's like saying a trinket isn't a trinket, just because it is made by the Mint. But if you don't see the similarities, I can't help you.
CoinWeek calls the gold ones coins. Coins aren't trinkets, just like coins aren't medals. These will go down in the US coin books as coins. What HSN is selling are not US coins. Isn't it very ironic you are comparing HSN as a bastion of numismatics now when you bashed them in the D Carr thread repeatedly?
Sorry, but coins shaped like odd objects are trinkets. According to me. I go by what coins have looked like throughout history, and certainly the history of the US. Not by what PAMP and the Mint are redefining it to be today.
It's a coin because it has been monetized. Not because it's any more a coin than the silver Liberty Bell medal, or the Solomon Islands Continental US "coin" that has the King Charles effigy and a Solomon Islands Dollar denomination.
This is a very important point. The interesting thing is that in some countries issuing these novelty coins, they aren't even legal-tender, as in you cannot take the novelty coin to the issuing country and spend it!
@ProofCollection said:
10 sales of the silver @ $2k and 10 sales of the 1oz at $24k on Pure. That's a pretty good indication that these are hot.
No. It's not.
It looks like a single buyer put in bids for 10 of each item, with a price that's enough to convince someone (Could be literally anyone....big wholesaler....top eBay market maker....or maybe mint mole looking to chum the waters just enough to steer sentiment initially) agreeing to fulfill one order of 10 silvers and 10 one ounce golds.
All this indicates is that someone is willing to take a gamble (Shocker, right?) on pre orders without knowing how they are received or how they will perform sales wise.
I'm sure that we can all see that the silvers will probably be ok at that price point, but at this point the only backtracking that's warranted is from those who are jumping to ANY conclusions based off of a transaction or two, between unknown parties with unknown connections....and a couple bids that could be retracted at a moment notice.
@ProofCollection said:
10 sales of the silver @ $2k and 10 sales of the 1oz at $24k on Pure. That's a pretty good indication that these are hot.
No. It's not.
It looks like a single buyer put in bids for 10 of each item, with a price that's enough to convince someone (Could be literally anyone....big wholesaler....top eBay market maker....or maybe mint mole looking to chum the waters just enough to steer sentiment initially) agreeing to fulfill one order of 10 silvers and 10 one ounce golds.
All this indicates is that someone is willing to take a gamble (Shocker, right?) on pre orders without knowing how they are received or how they will perform sales wise.
I'm sure that we can all see that the silvers will probably be ok at that price point, but at this point the only backtracking that's warranted is from those who are jumping to ANY conclusions based off of a transaction or two, between unknown parties with unknown connections....and a couple bids that could be retracted at a moment notice.
I think that's fair. "Hot" is the wrong word. It is an indication that they COULD have secondary market interest
We all know that no one is going to back track because it is a religion. The two pumpers have been pumping every Mint release for their alleged rarity and the strongest negative voice has been trashing all of the Mint releases. Even when the results have started coming in, no one has modified their stance.
I wish that I was that certain about anything in my life. LOL.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@ProofCollection said:
10 sales of the silver @ $2k and 10 sales of the 1oz at $24k on Pure. That's a pretty good indication that these are hot.
No. It's not.
It looks like a single buyer put in bids for 10 of each item, with a price that's enough to convince someone (Could be literally anyone....big wholesaler....top eBay market maker....or maybe mint mole looking to chum the waters just enough to steer sentiment initially) agreeing to fulfill one order of 10 silvers and 10 one ounce golds.
All this indicates is that someone is willing to take a gamble (Shocker, right?) on pre orders without knowing how they are received or how they will perform sales wise.
I'm sure that we can all see that the silvers will probably be ok at that price point, but at this point the only backtracking that's warranted is from those who are jumping to ANY conclusions based off of a transaction or two, between unknown parties with unknown connections....and a couple bids that could be retracted at a moment notice.
Those aren't bids that can be retracted. It's a done transaction. Those are 10 sales. CollectPure takes payment when the deal is made. Someone has locked up real money making the purchase. The seller could fail to perform and the buyer will get their money back, but that's the only chance of that deal falling through at this point.
@ProofCollection said:
10 sales of the silver @ $2k and 10 sales of the 1oz at $24k on Pure. That's a pretty good indication that these are hot.
No. It's not.
It looks like a single buyer put in bids for 10 of each item, with a price that's enough to convince someone (Could be literally anyone....big wholesaler....top eBay market maker....or maybe mint mole looking to chum the waters just enough to steer sentiment initially) agreeing to fulfill one order of 10 silvers and 10 one ounce golds.
All this indicates is that someone is willing to take a gamble (Shocker, right?) on pre orders without knowing how they are received or how they will perform sales wise.
I'm sure that we can all see that the silvers will probably be ok at that price point, but at this point the only backtracking that's warranted is from those who are jumping to ANY conclusions based off of a transaction or two, between unknown parties with unknown connections....and a couple bids that could be retracted at a moment notice.
Those aren't bids that can be retracted. It's a done transaction. Those are 10 sales. CollectPure takes payment when the deal is made. Someone has locked up real money making the purchase. The seller could fail to perform and the buyer will get their money back, but that's the only chance of that deal falling through at this point.
How is anything a "done transaction" when no one has any product to deliver?
What you said is exactly right, and is what I have been saying pre-sales are all along. The buyer granted a free Put option to the seller at the agreed upon price.
If these turn out sucking, they are foolishly locked into a buy at an inflated price. Otherwise, they have nothing other than a refund. What knowledgeable arm's length buyer would enter into a transaction like that? Heads you win, tails I lose.
On eBay, there are lots of dummies, so anything is possible. But Pure is not eBay, which is why @PeakRarities is spot on, and this is likely nothing more than related parties chumming the waters to get people like you all hot and bothered ahead of release.
It’s just crazy to me that 2,026 won’t even put this coins near modern lowest US mintages. I think there’s a dozen first spouses and $5 commems with lower mintages than that and if you take into the fact how many spouses have been melted in these past couple of years, probably a lot more.
"I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
@ProofCollection said:
10 sales of the silver @ $2k and 10 sales of the 1oz at $24k on Pure. That's a pretty good indication that these are hot.
No. It's not.
It looks like a single buyer put in bids for 10 of each item, with a price that's enough to convince someone (Could be literally anyone....big wholesaler....top eBay market maker....or maybe mint mole looking to chum the waters just enough to steer sentiment initially) agreeing to fulfill one order of 10 silvers and 10 one ounce golds.
All this indicates is that someone is willing to take a gamble (Shocker, right?) on pre orders without knowing how they are received or how they will perform sales wise.
I'm sure that we can all see that the silvers will probably be ok at that price point, but at this point the only backtracking that's warranted is from those who are jumping to ANY conclusions based off of a transaction or two, between unknown parties with unknown connections....and a couple bids that could be retracted at a moment notice.
Those aren't bids that can be retracted. It's a done transaction. Those are 10 sales. CollectPure takes payment when the deal is made. Someone has locked up real money making the purchase. The seller could fail to perform and the buyer will get their money back, but that's the only chance of that deal falling through at this point.
How is anything a "done transaction" when no one has any product to deliver?
The buyer has paid. There's no backing out on that end.
What you said is exactly right, and is what I have been saying pre-sales are all along. The buyer granted a free Put option to the seller at the agreed upon price.
If these turn out sucking, they are foolishly locked into a buy at an inflated price. Otherwise, they have nothing other than a refund. What knowledgeable arm's length buyer would enter into a transaction like that? Heads you win, tails I lose.
CP isn't going to let the seller back out, especially without consequences. They don't operate like ebay. Seller is likely some buyer's club where they know they'll get what they need and the profit will be adequate. They have a "bird in hand."
On eBay, there are lots of dummies, so anything is possible. But Pure is not eBay, which is why @PeakRarities is spot on, and this is likely nothing more than related parties chumming the waters to get people like you all hot and bothered ahead of release.
"Related parties" are not going to lock up hundreds of thousands of dollars and spend a bunch of money on fees spoofing transactions just to get people hot and bothered.
@ProofCollection said:
10 sales of the silver @ $2k and 10 sales of the 1oz at $24k on Pure. That's a pretty good indication that these are hot.
No. It's not.
It looks like a single buyer put in bids for 10 of each item, with a price that's enough to convince someone (Could be literally anyone....big wholesaler....top eBay market maker....or maybe mint mole looking to chum the waters just enough to steer sentiment initially) agreeing to fulfill one order of 10 silvers and 10 one ounce golds.
All this indicates is that someone is willing to take a gamble (Shocker, right?) on pre orders without knowing how they are received or how they will perform sales wise.
I'm sure that we can all see that the silvers will probably be ok at that price point, but at this point the only backtracking that's warranted is from those who are jumping to ANY conclusions based off of a transaction or two, between unknown parties with unknown connections....and a couple bids that could be retracted at a moment notice.
Those aren't bids that can be retracted. It's a done transaction. Those are 10 sales. CollectPure takes payment when the deal is made. Someone has locked up real money making the purchase. The seller could fail to perform and the buyer will get their money back, but that's the only chance of that deal falling through at this point.
How is anything a "done transaction" when no one has any product to deliver?
The buyer has paid. There's no backing out on that end.
What you said is exactly right, and is what I have been saying pre-sales are all along. The buyer granted a free Put option to the seller at the agreed upon price.
If these turn out sucking, they are foolishly locked into a buy at an inflated price. Otherwise, they have nothing other than a refund. What knowledgeable arm's length buyer would enter into a transaction like that? Heads you win, tails I lose.
CP isn't going to let the seller back out, especially without consequences. They don't operate like ebay. Seller is likely some buyer's club where they know they'll get what they need and the profit will be adequate. They have a "bird in hand."
On eBay, there are lots of dummies, so anything is possible. But Pure is not eBay, which is why @PeakRarities is spot on, and this is likely nothing more than related parties chumming the waters to get people like you all hot and bothered ahead of release.
"Related parties" are not going to lock up hundreds of thousands of dollars and spend a bunch of money on fees spoofing transactions just to get people hot and bothered.
Yes. That's why it's a free, one way option. The buyer is stuck if they price goes down.
The seller can freely fail to deliver, and only has to give a refund, if the price goes up and they cannot deliver without taking a loss. Not a mystery. We see it happen all the time with pre-sales.
Pure has no choice. It's a pre-sale. What consequences, beyond the refund you stated in your original post?
What "some buyer's club" Have you seen any offers yet? And what guarantee do they have that any of their members will be willing and able to deliver?
Think what you want, but pre-sales, other than from known, reputable dealers who will take a loss to maintain a reputation, are nothing other than speculative garbage. Indicative of nothing.
Have you seen any reputable dealers offering pre-sales on these, on their websites, eBay, Pure, or anywhere? If not, why doesn't that tell you anything?
Open your eyes, and see the pre-sales for what they are. If they are related parties, they are not tying up anything. Instead, ask yourself why a buyer would give a several hundred thousand dollar one way option to an anonymous seller with nothing in hand to sell?
If you are hot and bothered, as you appear to be, then, yeah, people looking to pump up a market in anticipation of selling into it would indeed spoof transactions in order to do so. Believe it or not, that's really a thing in this world.
@kiyote said:
It’s just crazy to me that 2,026 won’t even put this coins near modern lowest US mintages. I think there’s a dozen first spouses and $5 commems with lower mintages than that and if you take into the fact how many spouses have been melted in these past couple of years, probably a lot more.
If these were UNC they would not be lowest, but as proofs they are close. None of the modern proof commemoratives have a lower proof gold mintage. The lowest proof spouse is about 2315. The lowest of regular commemoratives are way higher due to the 3 coin proof sets they sell, with the last one being over 9000 in total sales. The v75 gold proof is the closest, at 1945 mintage and sell for up to 30k. The privy Flowing Hair silver medal is the closest for the silver.
These gold need to be looked at as a one year type coin with a 2026 mintage alone. It is the design that will make or break these, and if this is the only Liberty bell ever made then all interest will be in these for the design. People can decide if it is worth the premium.
If 60,000 people try to buy then the odds of anyone getting into the rickety website is about 1 in 30.
PS The Omega gold Lincoln cent coin was not a proof so is not comparable.
@NJCoin said:
If you are hot and bothered, as you appear to be, then, yeah, people looking to pump up a market in anticipation of selling into it would indeed spoof transactions in order to do so. Believe it or not, that's really a thing in this world.
The odds of anyone getting in is going to be very low is my guess, so pumping this up without anything to sell makes no sense.
That in no way, shape or form constitutes backtracking on having any interest in a half ounce of silver in the shape of the Liberty Bell for $750, just because the Mint chose to make you salivate over it by only making 2026. It's still only a half ounce of silver shaped like a Liberty Bell.
By all means, to preserve your mental well-being and peace of mind, don't ever look up the prices on GEM Proof Trimes.
@ProofCollection said:
10 sales of the silver @ $2k and 10 sales of the 1oz at $24k on Pure. That's a pretty good indication that these are hot.
No. It's not.
It looks like a single buyer put in bids for 10 of each item, with a price that's enough to convince someone (Could be literally anyone....big wholesaler....top eBay market maker....or maybe mint mole looking to chum the waters just enough to steer sentiment initially) agreeing to fulfill one order of 10 silvers and 10 one ounce golds.
All this indicates is that someone is willing to take a gamble (Shocker, right?) on pre orders without knowing how they are received or how they will perform sales wise.
I'm sure that we can all see that the silvers will probably be ok at that price point, but at this point the only backtracking that's warranted is from those who are jumping to ANY conclusions based off of a transaction or two, between unknown parties with unknown connections....and a couple bids that could be retracted at a moment notice.
Those aren't bids that can be retracted. It's a done transaction. Those are 10 sales. CollectPure takes payment when the deal is made. Someone has locked up real money making the purchase. The seller could fail to perform and the buyer will get their money back, but that's the only chance of that deal falling through at this point.
How is anything a "done transaction" when no one has any product to deliver?
The buyer has paid. There's no backing out on that end.
What you said is exactly right, and is what I have been saying pre-sales are all along. The buyer granted a free Put option to the seller at the agreed upon price.
If these turn out sucking, they are foolishly locked into a buy at an inflated price. Otherwise, they have nothing other than a refund. What knowledgeable arm's length buyer would enter into a transaction like that? Heads you win, tails I lose.
CP isn't going to let the seller back out, especially without consequences. They don't operate like ebay. Seller is likely some buyer's club where they know they'll get what they need and the profit will be adequate. They have a "bird in hand."
On eBay, there are lots of dummies, so anything is possible. But Pure is not eBay, which is why @PeakRarities is spot on, and this is likely nothing more than related parties chumming the waters to get people like you all hot and bothered ahead of release.
"Related parties" are not going to lock up hundreds of thousands of dollars and spend a bunch of money on fees spoofing transactions just to get people hot and bothered.
Yes. That's why it's a free, one way option. The buyer is stuck if they price goes down.
The seller can freely fail to deliver, and only has to give a refund, if the price goes up and they cannot deliver without taking a loss. Not a mystery. We see it happen all the time with pre-sales.
The seller doesn't even touch the money until it's delivered.
Pure has no choice. It's a pre-sale. What consequences, beyond the refund you stated in your original post?
Pure will close the account. They don't put up with that BS. You confuse them with ebay. The CP platform is a valuable tool, not worth loosing use of that platform over one deal.
What "some buyer's club" Have you seen any offers yet? And what guarantee do they have that any of their members will be willing and able to deliver?
Nothing specific. But if ran one and managed to lock in a deal with a guaranteed profit all I have to do is put the offer out and get armies of people buying product for me.
Think what you want, but pre-sales, other than from known, reputable dealers who will take a loss to maintain a reputation, are nothing other than speculative garbage. Indicative of nothing.
CP is a known, reputable dealer.
Open your eyes, and see the pre-sales for what they are. If they are related parties, they are not tying up anything. Instead, ask yourself why a buyer would give a several hundred thousand dollar one way option to an anonymous seller with nothing in hand to sell?
Ask yourself, why would related parties pay CP a few percentage points on ~$250k just to game the market?
If you are hot and bothered, as you appear to be, then, yeah, people looking to pump up a market in anticipation of selling into it would indeed spoof transactions in order to do so. Believe it or not, that's really a thing in this world.
Spoofing is this case is expensive and there's just no need for it.
@kiyote said:
It’s just crazy to me that 2,026 won’t even put this coins near modern lowest US mintages. I think there’s a dozen first spouses and $5 commems with lower mintages than that and if you take into the fact how many spouses have been melted in these past couple of years, probably a lot more.
You can’t even compare in my opinion. Not many people would have an interest in a random low number first spouse that is part of a bigger boring set. A ton of people will be interested in a low mintage one year only coin to celebrate 250.
@pf70collector said:
Probably a minute sell out for all 3. Though U.S. is not very popular so the overseas buyers may stay away. I may go after the 1/2 ounce gold.
If US coins are not very popular overseas, don't they always stay away?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@pf70collector said:
Probably a minute sell out for all 3. Though U.S. is not very popular so the overseas buyers may stay away. I may go after the 1/2 ounce gold.
If US coins are not very popular overseas, don't they always stay away?
This forum by and large assumes the market for these coins is the rank and file US mint customer. It is not. The target market for these is the elite highfalutin collectors and gift givers. The kind that buy $20k hand bags with the a special logo. Not the crowd that obsesses over intrinsic value. For that reason the 1/2oz gold will be the dog of the group. If the elite are going to buy a coin like this they want the full ounce. Many will want the full the set which will provide some demand for the 1/2oz gold.
@pf70collector said:
Probably a minute sell out for all 3. Though U.S. is not very popular so the overseas buyers may stay away. I may go after the 1/2 ounce gold.
If US coins are not very popular overseas, don't they always stay away?
This forum by and large assumes the market for these coins is the rank and file US mint customer. It is not. The target market for these is the elite highfalutin collectors and gift givers. The kind that buy $20k hand bags with the a special logo. Not the crowd that obsesses over intrinsic value. For that reason the 1/2oz gold will be the dog of the group. If the elite are going to buy a coin like this they want the full ounce. Many will want the full the set which will provide some demand for the 1/2oz gold.
That, in no way addresses my question. Then don't they always stay away?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@pf70collector said:
Only buying to flip. 7 day return window if these bomb.
As a taxpayer, I'd like to raise a middle finger.
Why? The Mint knows what it is doing.
Not offering the free return option would kill it in its crib. And, they make plenty of money on everything at the prices they are now charging.
They can afford to do this, and are doing it for a reason. There is no principle involved in pretty much anything they do nowadays, so why take a stand on this.
I too would like the Mint to force people to put up or shut up, with no backsies on these, or on 69s,etc. But they know full well what people are doing, and why, and they are okay with it. You, as a taxpayer, should be fine, because they are not running at a loss here. Far from it.
The only things they get killed on are the Congressionally mandated commemoratives, and there is no return issue with them, given they are forced to mint in quantities far above demand. Which is why the programs bleed money.
@pf70collector said:
Probably a minute sell out for all 3. Though U.S. is not very popular so the overseas buyers may stay away. I may go after the 1/2 ounce gold.
If US coins are not very popular overseas, don't they always stay away?
He said "Though U.S. is not very popular", no mention of US coins being unpopular.
Try telling the FIFA World Cup fans/visitors from Europe & elsewhere that the US is unpopular.
They're in shock as to how they've been lied to by their Media about how bad America/Americans are.
"Then don't they always stay away?" - No, they don't stay away, they love it here once they experience America...
@kiyote said:
It’s just crazy to me that 2,026 won’t even put this coins near modern lowest US mintages. I think there’s a dozen first spouses and $5 commems with lower mintages than that and if you take into the fact how many spouses have been melted in these past couple of years, probably a lot more.
You can’t even compare in my opinion. Not many people would have an interest in a random low number first spouse that is part of a bigger boring set. A ton of people will be interested in a low mintage one year only coin to celebrate 250.
That’s a good point. Nobody at a coin show is going to stop and look at a first spouse coin in the case, but I can see people gathered around to look at this these bell shaped coins.
Non-collecting members of the public would even at least be interested
I’m not a nay sayer on these items, just the price.
"I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
@pf70collector said:
Probably a minute sell out for all 3. Though U.S. is not very popular so the overseas buyers may stay away. I may go after the 1/2 ounce gold.
If US coins are not very popular overseas, don't they always stay away?
He said "Though U.S. is not very popular", no mention of US coins being unpopular.
Try telling the FIFA World Cup fans/visitors from Europe & elsewhere that the US is unpopular.
They're in shock as to how they've been lied to by their Media about how bad America/Americans are.
"Then don't they always stay away?" - No, they don't stay away, they love it here once they experience America...
Yes, I know what he said. However, I was probing what he meant. Anyone who hates America doesn't ever buy U.S. coins (probably) and I don't know why they would hate us anymore now. As you said, the world cup feedback from fans has been very good. They are smuggling ranch dressing back to Europe. LOL
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Comments
Here is a panpac article linking the Liberty Bell coins with the panpacs.
https://coinweek.com/1915-s-panama-pacific-50-octagonal-americas-gold-coin-that-broke-the-circle/
Also, one thing that has not been mentioned is the Liberty bells are proofs, and as such normally sell more than mint state coins. it is about 50%, but varies by a lot. So if we go by 50% that means 2026 proofs would be 1350 mint state. Will it matter with these? We will see.
You REALLY don't need to keep promoting them. Just keep it on the down low, and grab as many as you can for yourself. Why do you need validation from the forum?
Because, I'll tell you, while Coin Week was linking them to Pan Pac, Magic Mike was on TV linking them to the beautiful monstrosity linked below:
https://www.hsn.com/products/2026-stars-and-stripes-usa-250th-anniversary-1-oz-silve/23957914
Mike's coin, of course, being the much better deal, due to the lower price and higher silver content.
The fact is that the Liberty Bell is in many ways similar to Mike's coin. Except Mike's coin is prettier, colorized, and comes in nicer packaging. An indictment of what the Mint is becoming with things like this. So, pimp away.
But, if you take off the rose colored glasses, there really isn't much difference between a gimmicky coin shaped like the Continental US and one shaped like a Liberty Bell. Both made in very limited quantities. Both sold at large premiums to intrinsic value. The Mint's version sold at a far larger premium due to lower mintage and far higher implied demand. We'll have to see about that.
Yes, I get anything made by the Mint will have a larger audience than PAMP enjoys. But still, peel the onion and see both products for the cynical money grab they are. You don't need to whip up interest. Either it will be there or it won't.
I’m anxious to see it play out. It’s not something I want for my collection. If I did buy one it would be with the intention of flipping it to put towards something else that I would keep. We know that the silver is already a flipper’s desire (that shared article from earlier in the week)
I’m just going to watch this one from the sidelines but I wish everyone luck getting one, no matter if they are keeping it forever or trying to flip it.
The silver is a a goner in under 5 minutes. The golds…..????
This is like saying little league has no difference with MLB. The difference here is one comes from the US Mint, and the other is a foreign issue. That is all the difference in the world. But if you don't know the difference I can't help you.
No. It's like saying a trinket isn't a trinket, just because it is made by the Mint. But if you don't see the similarities, I can't help you.
Yes, of course there will be a difference. One is a one ounce, 3,000 mintage monstrosity being offered on TV for $250, and elsewhere for as low as $135. Not sold out.
The other is a half ounce, 2,000 mintage monstrosity being offered directly by the Mint for $750. Absolutely always far more interest in Mint product than PAMP product, but that's not a guarantee that there will be a lot of interest in anything so unique, and shlocky, at that price, just because they aren't making a lot of them. Other than from people like you disrespecting your fellow citizens and thinking other dummies will be willing to buy them from you for even more.
That's a huge TBD. But, to the extent you are a true believer, you really don't need to keep coming here hyping them. People who are thinking like you will already be chasing them. Others won't.
And, again, I really don't see anyone, anywhere, claiming they are keepers. Everyone excited about them, including you, just thinks they are a low mintage flip. Still waiting for the Pinehurst buy offer to hit my inbox.
CoinWeek calls the gold ones coins. Coins aren't trinkets, just like coins aren't medals. These will go down in the US coin books as coins. What HSN is selling are not US coins. Isn't it very ironic you are comparing HSN as a bastion of numismatics now when you bashed them in the D Carr thread repeatedly?
Sorry, but coins shaped like odd objects are trinkets. According to me. I go by what coins have looked like throughout history, and certainly the history of the US. Not by what PAMP and the Mint are redefining it to be today.
It's a coin because it has been monetized. Not because it's any more a coin than the silver Liberty Bell medal, or the Solomon Islands Continental US "coin" that has the King Charles effigy and a Solomon Islands Dollar denomination.
Good luck chasing the gold. I don't see them selling out at the obnoxious prices they will be charging. Because, no matter how low the mintage, there is no flip in a half ounce of gold that is starting at $10K, or a full ounce at $20K. And, again, no one really thinks they will be keepers.
These are not 1907 High Relief Double Eagles here. Or V75 AGEs, or FH gold privies, no matter how much you want them to be. They are very expensive trinkets.
And no, not "very ironic you are comparing HSN as a bastion of numismatics now when you bashed them in the D Carr thread repeatedly." You are missing the point. I mention it to make the point that the Liberty Bells are in the same class as the crap he is currently peddling on TV, and he is making the explicit connection for me.
I wouldn't count on that If i was you. These are a one year issue special only for now, and will not be done again. As such all interest will have to be with the 2026 versions alone, and no more. If someone wants to own one, they have to buy one of the three releases. Some will want all three. Nobody wanted the panpacs back then, and now why are they do valuable? You sound like the critics of the panpacs. That didn't work out too well for them.
Says you. The reality is that this is the first non-traditional coin or medal product ever for the US Mint. We don't know how it will be received. Your crystal ball is notoriously defective. With the backing of the US Mint it has the possibility of being wildly successful, even at these price points.
Coins have not always been round. That's a late European bias. I don't think the shape is relevant.
I will admit, NCLT are coins in monetization only. But the round "trinkets" are as questionable as the non-round ones.
The fact is that monetization by the US Mint, no matter how gimmicky, makes a difference in the market. Maybe not to you, but that isn't really the question.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Absolutely. We don't know how it will be received. I stated an opinion, and have repeatedly stated I might be wrong.
On the other side, all I see is "2026; big winner. FH silver privy medal. Big winner. V75 AGE. Big winner."
I'm saying demand might not be there, and that I don't hear anyone saying that they want to own them. Only that they have incredibly low mintages, and will therefore represent incredibly lucrative flips.
And I'm saying that's predicated on people needing to add very expensive low mintage novelty trinkets to their collections. Not just a bunch of flippers flipping to each other.
Just go back and search my posts for the number of times I have said TBD. TBD.
I'm not "saysing" anything, beyond that I think these are hot garbage. Doesn't mean 6078 people with money to burn won't become the receptacles of a lucrative flip.
I have now repeatedly said that I agree that the silver will be a quick sell out, due to all the flippers thinking they have something here. I also currently doubt that they do, since I don't see any dealers having any interest in buying right now, and don't see anyone saying they will be highly valued additions to their collections at $750. Just that things with comparable mintages that are nothing like this sell for thousands, so these obviously will as well
As for the gold, the Mint's odd choice of not scaling mintage to selling price means that what is a low mintage at $750 is not so low at $10K or $20K. So I honestly don't see the golds selling out, since I really don't think anyone is going to be chasing any of these to keep, and it seems pretty obvious that the risk/reward is not going to be there for a flip starting at $10-20K.
Not sure that it's relevant, but also not sure that it isn't. The new issue of Coin World has an article on the Mint World Cup offerings. Very anemic sales for all of them, although the World Cup itself is extremely popular.
Yes, maximum mintages are high, but actual mintages are going to be very low. Why isn't everyone pointing to Pan Pac looking to World Cup for a score, at much lower price points than Liberty Bells, with far higher intrinsic values? Because they are all Pavlovian dogs, responding to a maximum mintage figure without even considering possible lack of demand at a stupid high starting price point? TBD. Especially on gold coins at those highly obnoxious prices.
Multiple people including me have said they will be adding the silver to their collection. And you have acknowledged at least one of them. Now you’re saying you haven’t seen anyone wanting them for their collections.
Yeah, we'll see. Sorry that I keep forgetting about you while getting caught up in the debate.
The fact remains that the major use case seems to be the flip. It's not the usual thing where people are talking about having them graded, saving them for grand kids, etc.
You're the exception, not the rule here. And, good for you. I really hope you don't end up buried in a half ounce silver bell.
Nobody here knows if they will get past the rickety website to order any, so how can they tell you they will own one for sure now? They may not even get one if they want it if these sell out ASAP. I doubt I get any, but I will if I get through the hoops the mint throws up.
With the price of the privy quarters .... one would think the silver metal will be a hit on the market
Forget the bell and get the ultimate medal everyone wants...
Not comparable. The quarter is a coin that is part of a long running, collected series. The liberty bell is a stand alone offering that's not part of any widely collected series: US Mint medals.
Supply must always be viewed relative to demand. It remains to be seen how much demand there is.
You've probably also seen the highs for the quarters. It is unlikely that it's a $1000 coin moving forward.
I think it's likely the silver bells sell out. I thick it's equally likely that it's below issue price in s couple years. But it's just really hard to know because they're really aren't any ideal comps.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
https://www.collectpure.com/marketplace/product/freedom-ringing--liberty-bell-onehalf-ounce-silver-medal-26ld0486
Freedom Ringing – Liberty Bell One-Half Ounce Silver Medal (26LD)
Highest Bid
$1,500.00
Well, they’re going to be gone in under two minutes if the world thinks they can double their $750.
Let’s see how the gold ones do. N
This is a very important point. The interesting thing is that in some countries issuing these novelty coins, they aren't even legal-tender, as in you cannot take the novelty coin to the issuing country and spend it!
https://www.collectpure.com/marketplace/product/freedom-ringing--liberty-bell-one-ounce-gold-coin-26lb0488
Freedom Ringing – Liberty Bell One Ounce Gold Coin (26LB)
Highest Bid
$24,000.00
https://www.collectpure.com/marketplace/product/freedom-ringing--liberty-bell-onehalf-ounce-gold-coin-26lc0487
Freedom Ringing – Liberty Bell One-Half Ounce Gold Coin (26LC)
Highest Bid
$11,000.00
I was planning to go after some silvers but that is tempting..
That is a solid buy offer too! I’d go after the 1 oz but my credit card limit isn’t that high.
10 sales of the silver @ $2k and 10 sales of the 1oz at $24k on Pure. That's a pretty good indication that these are hot.
Let the backtracking begin on the gold.
No. It's not.
It looks like a single buyer put in bids for 10 of each item, with a price that's enough to convince someone (Could be literally anyone....big wholesaler....top eBay market maker....or maybe mint mole looking to chum the waters just enough to steer sentiment initially) agreeing to fulfill one order of 10 silvers and 10 one ounce golds.
All this indicates is that someone is willing to take a gamble (Shocker, right?) on pre orders without knowing how they are received or how they will perform sales wise.
I'm sure that we can all see that the silvers will probably be ok at that price point, but at this point the only backtracking that's warranted is from those who are jumping to ANY conclusions based off of a transaction or two, between unknown parties with unknown connections....and a couple bids that could be retracted at a moment notice.
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I think that's fair. "Hot" is the wrong word. It is an indication that they COULD have secondary market interest
We all know that no one is going to back track because it is a religion. The two pumpers have been pumping every Mint release for their alleged rarity and the strongest negative voice has been trashing all of the Mint releases. Even when the results have started coming in, no one has modified their stance.
I wish that I was that certain about anything in my life. LOL.
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Those aren't bids that can be retracted. It's a done transaction. Those are 10 sales. CollectPure takes payment when the deal is made. Someone has locked up real money making the purchase. The seller could fail to perform and the buyer will get their money back, but that's the only chance of that deal falling through at this point.
Is it? How does anyone have anything to sell yet?
How is anything a "done transaction" when no one has any product to deliver?
What you said is exactly right, and is what I have been saying pre-sales are all along. The buyer granted a free Put option to the seller at the agreed upon price.
If these turn out sucking, they are foolishly locked into a buy at an inflated price. Otherwise, they have nothing other than a refund. What knowledgeable arm's length buyer would enter into a transaction like that? Heads you win, tails I lose.
On eBay, there are lots of dummies, so anything is possible. But Pure is not eBay, which is why @PeakRarities is spot on, and this is likely nothing more than related parties chumming the waters to get people like you all hot and bothered ahead of release.
It’s just crazy to me that 2,026 won’t even put this coins near modern lowest US mintages. I think there’s a dozen first spouses and $5 commems with lower mintages than that and if you take into the fact how many spouses have been melted in these past couple of years, probably a lot more.
The buyer has paid. There's no backing out on that end.
CP isn't going to let the seller back out, especially without consequences. They don't operate like ebay. Seller is likely some buyer's club where they know they'll get what they need and the profit will be adequate. They have a "bird in hand."
"Related parties" are not going to lock up hundreds of thousands of dollars and spend a bunch of money on fees spoofing transactions just to get people hot and bothered.
Yes. That's why it's a free, one way option. The buyer is stuck if they price goes down.
The seller can freely fail to deliver, and only has to give a refund, if the price goes up and they cannot deliver without taking a loss. Not a mystery. We see it happen all the time with pre-sales.
Pure has no choice. It's a pre-sale. What consequences, beyond the refund you stated in your original post?
What "some buyer's club" Have you seen any offers yet? And what guarantee do they have that any of their members will be willing and able to deliver?
Think what you want, but pre-sales, other than from known, reputable dealers who will take a loss to maintain a reputation, are nothing other than speculative garbage. Indicative of nothing.
Have you seen any reputable dealers offering pre-sales on these, on their websites, eBay, Pure, or anywhere? If not, why doesn't that tell you anything?
Open your eyes, and see the pre-sales for what they are. If they are related parties, they are not tying up anything. Instead, ask yourself why a buyer would give a several hundred thousand dollar one way option to an anonymous seller with nothing in hand to sell?
If you are hot and bothered, as you appear to be, then, yeah, people looking to pump up a market in anticipation of selling into it would indeed spoof transactions in order to do so. Believe it or not, that's really a thing in this world.
If these were UNC they would not be lowest, but as proofs they are close. None of the modern proof commemoratives have a lower proof gold mintage. The lowest proof spouse is about 2315. The lowest of regular commemoratives are way higher due to the 3 coin proof sets they sell, with the last one being over 9000 in total sales. The v75 gold proof is the closest, at 1945 mintage and sell for up to 30k. The privy Flowing Hair silver medal is the closest for the silver.
These gold need to be looked at as a one year type coin with a 2026 mintage alone. It is the design that will make or break these, and if this is the only Liberty bell ever made then all interest will be in these for the design. People can decide if it is worth the premium.
If 60,000 people try to buy then the odds of anyone getting into the rickety website is about 1 in 30.
PS The Omega gold Lincoln cent coin was not a proof so is not comparable.
The odds of anyone getting in is going to be very low is my guess, so pumping this up without anything to sell makes no sense.
Not everything in life is a conspiracy.
By all means, to preserve your mental well-being and peace of mind, don't ever look up the prices on GEM Proof Trimes.
The seller doesn't even touch the money until it's delivered.
Pure will close the account. They don't put up with that BS. You confuse them with ebay. The CP platform is a valuable tool, not worth loosing use of that platform over one deal.
Nothing specific. But if ran one and managed to lock in a deal with a guaranteed profit all I have to do is put the offer out and get armies of people buying product for me.
CP is a known, reputable dealer.
Ask yourself, why would related parties pay CP a few percentage points on ~$250k just to game the market?
Spoofing is this case is expensive and there's just no need for it.
You can’t even compare in my opinion. Not many people would have an interest in a random low number first spouse that is part of a bigger boring set. A ton of people will be interested in a low mintage one year only coin to celebrate 250.
Probably a minute sell out for all 3. Though U.S. is not very popular so the overseas buyers may stay away. I may go after the 1/2 ounce gold.
Box of 20
If US coins are not very popular overseas, don't they always stay away?
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This forum by and large assumes the market for these coins is the rank and file US mint customer. It is not. The target market for these is the elite highfalutin collectors and gift givers. The kind that buy $20k hand bags with the a special logo. Not the crowd that obsesses over intrinsic value. For that reason the 1/2oz gold will be the dog of the group. If the elite are going to buy a coin like this they want the full ounce. Many will want the full the set which will provide some demand for the 1/2oz gold.
Only buying to flip. 7 day return window if these bomb.
Box of 20
That, in no way addresses my question. Then don't they always stay away?
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As a taxpayer, I'd like to raise a middle finger.
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You're not alone, no matter what some people claim.
Why? The Mint knows what it is doing.
Not offering the free return option would kill it in its crib. And, they make plenty of money on everything at the prices they are now charging.
They can afford to do this, and are doing it for a reason. There is no principle involved in pretty much anything they do nowadays, so why take a stand on this.
I too would like the Mint to force people to put up or shut up, with no backsies on these, or on 69s,etc. But they know full well what people are doing, and why, and they are okay with it. You, as a taxpayer, should be fine, because they are not running at a loss here. Far from it.
The only things they get killed on are the Congressionally mandated commemoratives, and there is no return issue with them, given they are forced to mint in quantities far above demand. Which is why the programs bleed money.
He said "Though U.S. is not very popular", no mention of US coins being unpopular.
Try telling the FIFA World Cup fans/visitors from Europe & elsewhere that the US is unpopular.
They're in shock as to how they've been lied to by their Media about how bad America/Americans are.
"Then don't they always stay away?" - No, they don't stay away, they love it here once they experience America...
That’s a good point. Nobody at a coin show is going to stop and look at a first spouse coin in the case, but I can see people gathered around to look at this these bell shaped coins.
Non-collecting members of the public would even at least be interested
I’m not a nay sayer on these items, just the price.
Yes, I know what he said. However, I was probing what he meant. Anyone who hates America doesn't ever buy U.S. coins (probably) and I don't know why they would hate us anymore now. As you said, the world cup feedback from fans has been very good. They are smuggling ranch dressing back to Europe. LOL
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