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Counterfeit rattler holders
56morgan
Posts: 62 ✭✭✭
Does anyone have pictures or information on the transition from slabs 1.2 to 2.0 because of conterfeit issues?
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I don't know if your title and your text match as well as they could in order to attract the information that you are asking about. I have lots of information on the era but am still not certain what you might actually want to know.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
There was a reason PCGS adapted the frame around the basic rattler holder. Some say this was because of an influx of conterfeit rattler holders. Do any of these "holders" exist or is this another urban myth?
I’m pretty sure those were the gen 2.0 and 2.1 holders
"Another day, another Collectors Universe forum scrolling session."
- Someone, probably
Do any of the holders with the frame exist? Absolutely, they exist. Was the story of counterfeit PCGS holders an urban myth? No, it happened.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
At the time, this was well reported by the coin press. Some US coin dealer was putting genuine high-end AU coins in counterfeit PCGS slab shells with counterfeit labels showing MS grades. The coins were mostly Morgans and Saints. Many of these coins were sent back to PCGS for their review under their grade guarantee where the fraud was discovered. PCGS then got the FBI involved and they were able to trace these coins back to a specific dealer. He was arrested, tried in court, and subsequently served time in prison. PCGS honored their guarantee to get these fake PCGS slabs out of the marketplace even though they had no legal obligation to do so. Of course, they also added several anti-counterfeiting features their new slab design. The easiest way to spot the counterfeit slabs is the letter E on the reverse of the label. On the counterfeits, the E is flat across the bottom while on the genuine slabs, the base of the E dips down slightly where the serif is on the lower right corner.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
To simplify- PCGS markets the rattler slab- holder. Someone counterfeits the rattler holder. PCGS counters wth the framed 2.0 2.1 2.2 slab holder. Does anyone have informaion on these counterfeit holders?
Maybe I’m remembering incorrectly, but I don’t think the coins being used were limited to high-end AU examples. I believe it was much broader than that. For example, MS63 coins were placed in counterfeit MS64 holders, MS 64 coins in counterfeit MS65 holders, etc.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
You might be correct. This happed in the late 1980s over 35 years ago so my memory of what transpired may be a little fuzzy. The bottom line is the slab counterfeiter used genuine US coins but he over graded them.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I have primary numismatic references to the events as they occurred and if the OP had given us direct questions about exactly what they wanted from the beginning I might have been able to help more. My recollection aligns with @MFekd in that I believe it was a case of MS63 coins in MS64 holders and similar. Also, it might have been limited to gold coins, as well, but I would have to look again.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Sounds like a scary thing. I liquidated all my rattlers decades ago never liked how they rotate in holder. It is scary how crooks out there will go after anything.
Yes, that is true. It is scary.
I was always told to check the reverse label and look at the alignment of the I. But I never held one I could be sure was counterfeit.
ANA 50+ year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Author: 3rd Edition of the SampleSlabs book, https://sampleslabs.info/