White label insanity

USMarine6 · June 30, 2026 2:48PM

https://coinweek.com/a-10419-walking-liberty-half-dollar-the-pcgs-white-rattler-made-the-difference/

Im all about old holders but this is just getting out of hand

MasonG · June 30, 2026 3:06PM

People collect all kinds of things, not much anybody can do about it.

AdamL · June 30, 2026 3:10PM

I wonder how many of the 1,335 coins graded before this one are still around in their original holders..

TomB · June 30, 2026 3:10PM

I don't know, lots of folks would think any of us paying beyond melt value for a coin is out-of-hand, too.

MFeld · June 30, 2026 3:23PM

@TomB said:
I don't know, lots of folks would think any of us paying beyond melt value for a coin is out-of-hand, too.

Yes, and each person has their own price level at which they think “this is just getting out of hand”.

bammbamm · June 30, 2026 3:45PM

@AdamL said:
I wonder how many of the 1,335 coins graded before this one are still around in their original holders..

Very few. There are less than 120 White Label Rattlers known to still exist.
This website is a great reference.:
https://oldslabholders.com
Here is the current census:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1g3DEhAtYUVPEHEd8uqGkC09xZNRzW2v5tlqOlWn605o/edit?gid=734937951#gid=734937951

Copperindian · June 30, 2026 4:22PM

@bammbamm: great info; thanks for the links! I have one of the 5 Saints showing in your census.

oldabeintx · June 30, 2026 4:42PM

Wish I knew then…if anyone told me in the 80’s that folks would be collecting holders I would have told them they were nuts. Not the first boat I’ve missed and won’t be the last.

oldabeintx · June 30, 2026 4:49PM

@TomB said:
I don't know, lots of folks would think any of us paying beyond melt value for a coin is out-of-hand, too.

My family included.

Walkerfan · June 30, 2026 5:11PM

I like vintage holders as much as the next guy, but that much of a premium. I can’t get my head around. If that’s what you like, well then, God bless you and more power to you. Just because I don’t value it in the same way doesn’t mean that it is “wrong”. There is certainly a lot of numismatic history associated with that slab.

RedRocket · June 30, 2026 5:13PM

@MasonG said:
People collect all kinds of things, not much anybody can do about it.

Why would anyone want to?

MasonG · June 30, 2026 5:16PM

@RedRocket said:

@MasonG said:
People collect all kinds of things, not much anybody can do about it.

Why would anyone want to?

I don't know.

jmlanzaf · June 30, 2026 5:26PM

@Walkerfan said:
I like vintage holders as much as the next guy, but that much of a premium. I can’t get my head around. If that’s what you like, well then, God bless you and more power to you. Just because I don’t value it in the same way doesn’t mean that it is “wrong”. There is certainly a lot of numismatic history associated with that slab.

The premium is pretty much zero, for the coin. It's just a purchase of a historical holder.

oldabeintx · June 30, 2026 5:26PM

Serious question: is there a holder registry?

jmlanzaf · June 30, 2026 5:27PM

@MasonG said:

@RedRocket said:

@MasonG said:
People collect all kinds of things, not much anybody can do about it.

Why would anyone want to?

I don't know.

Because it's important that you have fun in a manner acceptable to me.

Walkerfan · June 30, 2026 5:27PM

@jmlanzaf said:

@Walkerfan said:
I like vintage holders as much as the next guy, but that much of a premium. I can’t get my head around. If that’s what you like, well then, God bless you and more power to you. Just because I don’t value it in the same way doesn’t mean that it is “wrong”. There is certainly a lot of numismatic history associated with that slab.

The premium is pretty much zero, for the coin. It's just a purchase of a historical holder.

Thanks, Captain obvious.

MFeld · June 30, 2026 5:29PM

@jmlanzaf said:

@Walkerfan said:
I like vintage holders as much as the next guy, but that much of a premium. I can’t get my head around. If that’s what you like, well then, God bless you and more power to you. Just because I don’t value it in the same way doesn’t mean that it is “wrong”. There is certainly a lot of numismatic history associated with that slab.

The premium is pretty much zero, for the coin. It's just a purchase of a historical holder.

Actually, I think the label is worth as much as, if not more than the holder.

jmlanzaf · June 30, 2026 5:30PM

@Walkerfan said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Walkerfan said:
I like vintage holders as much as the next guy, but that much of a premium. I can’t get my head around. If that’s what you like, well then, God bless you and more power to you. Just because I don’t value it in the same way doesn’t mean that it is “wrong”. There is certainly a lot of numismatic history associated with that slab.

The premium is pretty much zero, for the coin. It's just a purchase of a historical holder.

Thanks, Captain obvious.

Dear Captain Obvious,

You used the term "premium". A VG 1958 Lincoln would have likely sold for the same. Just clarifying for anyone who didn't know.

You're welcome,
Dr. Joe

oldabeintx · June 30, 2026 5:30PM

Second serious question: has anyone given any thought to grading the condition of holders? Opportunity knocks.

jmlanzaf · June 30, 2026 5:31PM

@MFeld said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Walkerfan said:
I like vintage holders as much as the next guy, but that much of a premium. I can’t get my head around. If that’s what you like, well then, God bless you and more power to you. Just because I don’t value it in the same way doesn’t mean that it is “wrong”. There is certainly a lot of numismatic history associated with that slab.

The premium is pretty much zero, for the coin. It's just a purchase of a historical holder.

Actually, I think the label is worth as much as, if not more than the holder.

Thanks, General Obvious.

RedRocket · June 30, 2026 5:33PM

Where is Morgan White when you need him.

jmlanzaf · June 30, 2026 5:35PM

@RedRocket said:
Where is Morgan White when you need him.

Seriously. What the hell?

jmlanzaf · June 30, 2026 5:36PM

@oldabeintx said:
Second serious question: has anyone given any thought to grading the condition of holders? Opportunity knocks.

We've talked about it in the forum. I don't know that any corporate entity has actually considered it.

Something like that probably should be encased to protect the holder.

Walkerfan · June 30, 2026 5:37PM

@oldabeintx said:
Second serious question: has anyone given any thought to grading the condition of holders? Opportunity knocks.

This actually isn’t as crazy as it sounds. When I suggested grading video games years ago, people told me I was crazy. Now, they do it and they sell for tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars. Not a market I would ever participate in, but it is a real thing and it happens.

U1chicago · June 30, 2026 5:39PM

@oldabeintx said:
Second serious question: has anyone given any thought to grading the condition of holders? Opportunity knocks.

I have seen it discussed-mostly as a joke-but I would not be surprised if someone tried such a grading service.

U1chicago · June 30, 2026 5:43PM

@oldabeintx said:
Serious question: is there a holder registry?

I have not seen anything official but if you look through some of the registry sets, people have done sets with just rattlers (or other holders). There was a forum member several years ago that was doing a 1950-1964 proof set registry of all rattler holders (he was nowhere near the top since the highest grades are not in rattler holders but it was likely harder to complete the set since some coins have low populations in rattlers).

MFeld · June 30, 2026 5:43PM

@jmlanzaf said:

@MFeld said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Walkerfan said:
I like vintage holders as much as the next guy, but that much of a premium. I can’t get my head around. If that’s what you like, well then, God bless you and more power to you. Just because I don’t value it in the same way doesn’t mean that it is “wrong”. There is certainly a lot of numismatic history associated with that slab.

The premium is pretty much zero, for the coin. It's just a purchase of a historical holder.

Actually, I think the label is worth as much as, if not more than the holder.

Thanks, General Obvious.

While obvious, how many times have you heard the “label” (rather than the “holder”) receive credit for the added value?

oldabeintx · June 30, 2026 5:43PM

@U1chicago said:

@oldabeintx said:
Second serious question: has anyone given any thought to grading the condition of holders? Opportunity knocks.

I have seen it discussed-mostly as a joke-but I would not be surprised if someone tried such a grading service.

Not a lot of expertise required. The first to do it makes up their own criteria. A sticker would be the least difficult and costly to get it going.

oldabeintx · June 30, 2026 5:48PM

@U1chicago said:

@oldabeintx said:
Serious question: is there a holder registry?

I have not seen anything official but if you look through some of the registry sets, people have done sets with just rattlers (or other holders). There was a forum member several years ago that was doing a 1950-1964 proof set registry of all rattler holders (he was nowhere near the top since the highest grades are not in rattler holders but it was likely harder to complete the set since some coins have low populations in rattlers).

Up next: a type set. Is such a thing defined by holder fans? Not just PGGS and NGC holders.

Walkerfan · June 30, 2026 5:52PM

@oldabeintx said:

@U1chicago said:

@oldabeintx said:
Serious question: is there a holder registry?

I have not seen anything official but if you look through some of the registry sets, people have done sets with just rattlers (or other holders). There was a forum member several years ago that was doing a 1950-1964 proof set registry of all rattler holders (he was nowhere near the top since the highest grades are not in rattler holders but it was likely harder to complete the set since some coins have low populations in rattlers).

Up next: a type set. Is such a thing defined by holder fans? Not just PGGS and NGC holders.

That would be cool…A slab type set. With the NGC black and the PCGS white label being the keys.

jmlanzaf · June 30, 2026 6:14PM

@Walkerfan said:

@oldabeintx said:

@U1chicago said:

@oldabeintx said:
Serious question: is there a holder registry?

I have not seen anything official but if you look through some of the registry sets, people have done sets with just rattlers (or other holders). There was a forum member several years ago that was doing a 1950-1964 proof set registry of all rattler holders (he was nowhere near the top since the highest grades are not in rattler holders but it was likely harder to complete the set since some coins have low populations in rattlers).

Up next: a type set. Is such a thing defined by holder fans? Not just PGGS and NGC holders.

That would be cool…A slab type set. With the NGC black and the PCGS white label being the keys.

Idk. Since he expanded beyond NGC and PCGS, those might not be the hardest ones to get.

skier07 · June 30, 2026 6:20PM

Not for me but whatever floats your boat.

johnnyb · June 30, 2026 6:21PM

I actually thought it would sell for a little more. It’s not the coin, but who could have imagined that collectible / coin grading/slabbing would ever become so big when it first started (no withstanding ANACS and other earlier slabs/grading). There’s not a lot of these around. That coin has spent nearly half of its life in that slab.

U1chicago · June 30, 2026 6:30PM

@oldabeintx said:

@U1chicago said:

@oldabeintx said:
Serious question: is there a holder registry?

I have not seen anything official but if you look through some of the registry sets, people have done sets with just rattlers (or other holders). There was a forum member several years ago that was doing a 1950-1964 proof set registry of all rattler holders (he was nowhere near the top since the highest grades are not in rattler holders but it was likely harder to complete the set since some coins have low populations in rattlers).

Up next: a type set. Is such a thing defined by holder fans? Not just PGGS and NGC holders.

There are people doing slab sets with every (or close to it) possible holder. Some try to do it all with the same coin type (Buffalo Nickel or Morgan) while others just try for one of every holder. I don't think anyone has attempted a 7070 type set with each coin in a different grading party holder.

I had a run at a box of 20 set of holders about a decade ago. Eventually I went in a different direction but it was fun to see how many different holders one can find.

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/the-lordm-inspired-box-of-20-slab-edition.286751/

coinbuf · June 30, 2026 7:27PM

@oldabeintx said:
Serious question: is there a holder registry?

I have a custom set of old holders listed on the NGC registry. There are actually more than can be seen by visitors. For whatever reason the NGC registry will not show all of the old and defunct types (think Blanchard, ACG and others) to visitors only I can see them when I am signed in.

I had hoped to add more over time but these have, as the op suggested, gotten very pricey and is making it difficult to add much.

https://coins.collectors-society.com/wcm/CoinCustomSetView.aspx?s=52

tradedollarnut · June 30, 2026 7:38PM

I’d pay crazy $ for the right 1909 cent in the right holder. It’s not about the coin - it’s about the coin in that holder.

PerryHall · July 1, 2026 12:49AM

Since we're on the topic of high valued vintage coin slabs, which slab type is considered to be the most valuable? I'm guessing it's the first-generation black NGC slab. What is the current value of this slab? It's been a while since I've seen one for sale.

TorinoCobra71 · July 1, 2026 1:16AM

"Old Holders" and "Toners" have been bringing stupid money lately......

johnny9434 · July 1, 2026 2:11AM

We need a wrestling/boxing ring in the random room area, jmo

291fifth · July 1, 2026 4:34AM

The amount paid is probably pocket change to the buyer.

Goob · July 1, 2026 7:11AM

I mean…
If it exists, somebody somewhere is gonna collect it!!

RandomSchmoe · July 1, 2026 7:18AM

@U1chicago said:

@oldabeintx said:
Second serious question: has anyone given any thought to grading the condition of holders? Opportunity knocks.

I have seen it discussed-mostly as a joke-but I would not be surprised if someone tried such a grading service.

Then the holders will need holders. And then those holders will be collected and need holders. Where does it end?!

Cougar1978 · July 1, 2026 7:55AM

Idk if that will ever end. How does one even arrive at some valuation matrix for it?

I am not into the holder thing for various reasons but if that is part of somebody’s hobby from my pov that is their money / investment.

oldabeintx · July 1, 2026 8:10AM

@RandomSchmoe said:

@U1chicago said:

@oldabeintx said:
Second serious question: has anyone given any thought to grading the condition of holders? Opportunity knocks.

I have seen it discussed-mostly as a joke-but I would not be surprised if someone tried such a grading service.

Then the holders will need holders. And then those holders will be collected and need holders. Where does it end?!

Use a sticker.

Lakesammman · July 1, 2026 8:33AM

People pay crazy money for paintings that, if hung upside down, most people wouldn't notice it.

I prefer vintage holders from PCGS, NGC and Compugrade.

oldabeintx · July 1, 2026 8:39AM

@Lakesammman said:
People pay crazy money for paintings that, if hung upside down, most people wouldn't notice it.

I prefer vintage holders from PCGS, NGC and Compugrade.

Yeah, but paintings can be enjoyed by anyone visiting your space, and appreciated as well. Try that with a vintage holder. Also, do you seriously think that a vintage holder will mean anything to anyone 50 years from now? A painting might. I collect all sorts of stuff that is really for my eyes only and may well be lost on future generations, but I enjoy it and don’t worry about it. I collect art too.

skier07 · July 1, 2026 11:37AM

Would a blah looking circulated Lincoln from the 1920’s in a white label sell for crazy money?

logger7 · July 1, 2026 11:57AM

We're approaching peak bubble mania. I wonder what will deflate the bubbles...

oldabeintx · July 1, 2026 12:01PM

@logger7 said:
We're approaching peak bubble mania. I wonder what will deflate the bubbles...

Yes, it has that feel doesn’t it?

Old_Collector · July 1, 2026 12:10PM

@oldabeintx said:

@logger7 said:
We're approaching peak bubble mania. I wonder what will deflate the bubbles...

Yes, it has that feel doesn’t it?

The problem is that individual conscious feelings do not equate well with sentiment that controls markets and is the emergent property of the mass of all buyers and seller both conscious and unconscious. That is a basis of Elliott Wave analysis of markets. Feelings are highly specific to individuals and vary substantially. Markets usually deflate when least expected.

oldabeintx · July 1, 2026 12:17PM

@Old_Collector said:

@oldabeintx said:

@logger7 said:
We're approaching peak bubble mania. I wonder what will deflate the bubbles...

Yes, it has that feel doesn’t it?

The problem is that individual conscious feelings do not equate well with sentiment that controls markets and is the emergent property of the mass of all buyers and seller both conscious and unconscious. That is a basis of Elliott Wave analysis of markets. Feelings are highly specific to individuals and vary substantially. Markets usually deflate when least expected.

Thank you. Wouldn’t be the first time my gut was wrong. I suck at designing marketing materials and ads for example. Put too much emphasis on my own opinion/taste.

White label insanity

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