@Rc5280 said:
He's already changing his tune & backtracking. You can see it a mile away.
However, it's soo refreshing to see a single sentence vs a 6 paragraph monologue that repeats itself over & over & over again for the entire thread! SMH.
This is one of those issues where I think any responsible assessment has to leave options open. It's a Mint first. It's a relatively low mintage, but not incredibly so, for a silver medal. It is a medal not a coin. The price is quite high. It's easy to see it as a 5 minute sell out or a total flop... and everything in between.
Just based on the sentiment here, it looks like the silver will sell out quickly. I'm not "backtracking" on anything.
I still think it's extremely overpriced crap, and have been consistently saying people only want it because they think they will be able to flip it for more. Not because any reasonable collector feels that their coin collection will not be complete without a $750+ half ounce silver ingot shaped in the form of the Liberty Bell.
There are flippers for sure. But I'd argue that many people want it because they feel if they don't buy it from the mint it'll be a) more expensive in the after market and b) hard to find after a few months.
Purchases based on nothing other than the greater fool theory always ends in pain and disappointment. And I haven't heard a single person here say anything positive about this, other than the low mintage.
Not always. Some people profit handsomely. If you're saying this you haven't been paying attention.
To date, the Mint has sold exactly 2,999 2024-W AGEs. Containing a full ounce of pure gold. Most of which at prices significantly below what people think the silver bells will be worth. Both sub 3K mintages. Both produced by the Mint.
But one is a tired series. The other is a novel offering tied to the semi-Q event. I don't think that's a fair comparison.
Not saying a silver bell is an AGE. Just saying everything does not have robust demand, just because it is made in very low numbers. And, absent very robust demand, it's puzzling why anyone would find these interesting at the price the Mint is seeking, regardless of the mintage. I personally find each of the BOM silver medals FAR more interesting than these. The fact that they are being sold at a fraction of the price is the least of the reasons why.
Why is it so puzzling?
a) The first non-asymmetrical us mint coin/medal.
b) SemiQ.
c) Low mintage
Just because these reasons don't excite you doesn't mean others aren't moved by them.
No one forced them to do this at all. Things like this should be made in reasonable quantities, at reasonable prices.
Modern Mint issues really should not be bespoke product only available to a select few. Maybe a 10 ounce gold whatever, if they want to test the market for something like that, but not a half ounce silver Liberty Bell commemorating the semisesquicentennial.
You are entitled to your opinion, but I see it that the mint is catering to the elite portion of their market base and have been for a few years now. Most people are just upset that they can't participate in the elite products, the same way most of us can't afford to participate in the market for Ferraris.
People here seem to imply this product offering is a miscalculation and "bad move" on the part of the mint. But I would bet this is a highly calculated move to cater to and serve higher margin clients and boost profits.
@NJCoin said:
To date, the Mint has sold exactly 2,999 2024-W AGEs. Containing a full ounce of pure gold. Most of which at prices significantly below what people think the silver bells will be worth. Both sub 3K mintages. Both produced by the Mint.
The mint has 4,759 more 24EH in inventory, so the final mintage will be around 7,759. Way over the gold bells.
These are also viewed as type coins by the market, so the total supply combines all the mintages. If it was a one-time issue it would have been a one-day sellout at a 3k mintage.
Not if they don't sell them and they are eventually melted down.
I'm not really convinced that the mint melts anything down anymore. I think that prior to the run up in platinum prices, in 2025 they were still trying to sell 2018 APEs. And from listening to coin dealer interviews, it seems like at some point someone with deep pockets makes deals with the mint to buy up old stale inventory.
As a result, as I've said before, that is going to leave you to battle with other flippers for one. A lot of people who might have actually wanted one will be out. Out at noon on the 16th, and out when you go to flip them.
But according to you this will be a dud and there will be a glut of these on ebay at sub-issue pricing. Which is it? Flipping opportunity depriving those who want one or dud leading to "dumping" on ebay at sub issue price?
@fathom said:
I'm struggling to know why the extreme pricing on the gold bells. Maybe they think they can retail them at a Tiffany or high end retailers besides the normal channels. It is an important milestone/anniversary.
Like I said, they are feeling confident about the brand.
Because they are catering to their elite customers, not us ASE/AGE & annual mint set rubes.
Thanks for the link to the very interesting article.
Some other differences w the Pan Pac...
Supposedly some of the profit from that issue was to support the event. This is just to make a ton for the Mint.
The Pac Pac was not super low mintage, it was super low sales due to price. Most got melted.
I also do not understand why The Mint seems to imply that these were so expensive to produce, while other world mints produce such items far, far less expensively. Also, many of them look nicer. I don't think these are that impressive looking for all the hype, price and discussion of technology. The Pan Pacs are fantastic looking.
Also, the Mint could have made each of these 2x their weight and still made a killing on them.
@Rc5280 said:
He's already changing his tune & backtracking. You can see it a mile away.
However, it's soo refreshing to see a single sentence vs a 6 paragraph monologue that repeats itself over & over & over again for the entire thread! SMH.
This is one of those issues where I think any responsible assessment has to leave options open. It's a Mint first. It's a relatively low mintage, but not incredibly so, for a silver medal. It is a medal not a coin. The price is quite high. It's easy to see it as a 5 minute sell out or a total flop... and everything in between.
Just based on the sentiment here, it looks like the silver will sell out quickly. I'm not "backtracking" on anything.
I still think it's extremely overpriced crap, and have been consistently saying people only want it because they think they will be able to flip it for more. Not because any reasonable collector feels that their coin collection will not be complete without a $750+ half ounce silver ingot shaped in the form of the Liberty Bell.
There are flippers for sure. But I'd argue that many people want it because they feel if they don't buy it from the mint it'll be a) more expensive in the after market and b) hard to find after a few months.
Purchases based on nothing other than the greater fool theory always ends in pain and disappointment. And I haven't heard a single person here say anything positive about this, other than the low mintage.
Not always. Some people profit handsomely. If you're saying this you haven't been paying attention.
To date, the Mint has sold exactly 2,999 2024-W AGEs. Containing a full ounce of pure gold. Most of which at prices significantly below what people think the silver bells will be worth. Both sub 3K mintages. Both produced by the Mint.
But one is a tired series. The other is a novel offering tied to the semi-Q event. I don't think that's a fair comparison.
Not saying a silver bell is an AGE. Just saying everything does not have robust demand, just because it is made in very low numbers. And, absent very robust demand, it's puzzling why anyone would find these interesting at the price the Mint is seeking, regardless of the mintage. I personally find each of the BOM silver medals FAR more interesting than these. The fact that they are being sold at a fraction of the price is the least of the reasons why.
Why is it so puzzling?
a) The first non-asymmetrical us mint coin/medal.
b) SemiQ.
c) Low mintage
Just because these reasons don't excite you doesn't mean others aren't moved by them.
No one forced them to do this at all. Things like this should be made in reasonable quantities, at reasonable prices.
Modern Mint issues really should not be bespoke product only available to a select few. Maybe a 10 ounce gold whatever, if they want to test the market for something like that, but not a half ounce silver Liberty Bell commemorating the semisesquicentennial.
You are entitled to your opinion, but I see it that the mint is catering to the elite portion of their market base and have been for a few years now. Most people are just upset that they can't participate in the elite products, the same way most of us can't afford to participate in the market for Ferraris.
People here seem to imply this product offering is a miscalculation and "bad move" on the part of the mint. But I would bet this is a highly calculated move to cater to and serve higher margin clients and boost profits.
@NJCoin said:
To date, the Mint has sold exactly 2,999 2024-W AGEs. Containing a full ounce of pure gold. Most of which at prices significantly below what people think the silver bells will be worth. Both sub 3K mintages. Both produced by the Mint.
The mint has 4,759 more 24EH in inventory, so the final mintage will be around 7,759. Way over the gold bells.
These are also viewed as type coins by the market, so the total supply combines all the mintages. If it was a one-time issue it would have been a one-day sellout at a 3k mintage.
Not if they don't sell them and they are eventually melted down.
I'm not really convinced that the mint melts anything down anymore. I think that prior to the run up in platinum prices, in 2025 they were still trying to sell 2018 APEs. And from listening to coin dealer interviews, it seems like at some point someone with deep pockets makes deals with the mint to buy up old stale inventory.
As a result, as I've said before, that is going to leave you to battle with other flippers for one. A lot of people who might have actually wanted one will be out. Out at noon on the 16th, and out when you go to flip them.
But according to you this will be a dud and there will be a glut of these on ebay at sub-issue pricing. Which is it? Flipping opportunity depriving those who want one or dud leading to "dumping" on ebay at sub issue price?
@fathom said:
I'm struggling to know why the extreme pricing on the gold bells. Maybe they think they can retail them at a Tiffany or high end retailers besides the normal channels. It is an important milestone/anniversary.
Like I said, they are feeling confident about the brand.
Because they are catering to their elite customers, not us ASE/AGE & annual mint set rubes.
I think they need the rubes (your terminology) that is partly what is confounding.
Also to NJ ultimately you don't capture market value you earn it and keep it with proper merchandising and pricing to go along. That is also what is confounding.
@Rc5280 said:
He's already changing his tune & backtracking. You can see it a mile away.
However, it's soo refreshing to see a single sentence vs a 6 paragraph monologue that repeats itself over & over & over again for the entire thread! SMH.
This is one of those issues where I think any responsible assessment has to leave options open. It's a Mint first. It's a relatively low mintage, but not incredibly so, for a silver medal. It is a medal not a coin. The price is quite high. It's easy to see it as a 5 minute sell out or a total flop... and everything in between.
Just based on the sentiment here, it looks like the silver will sell out quickly. I'm not "backtracking" on anything.
I still think it's extremely overpriced crap, and have been consistently saying people only want it because they think they will be able to flip it for more. Not because any reasonable collector feels that their coin collection will not be complete without a $750+ half ounce silver ingot shaped in the form of the Liberty Bell.
There are flippers for sure. But I'd argue that many people want it because they feel if they don't buy it from the mint it'll be a) more expensive in the after market and b) hard to find after a few months.
Purchases based on nothing other than the greater fool theory always ends in pain and disappointment. And I haven't heard a single person here say anything positive about this, other than the low mintage.
Not always. Some people profit handsomely. If you're saying this you haven't been paying attention.
To date, the Mint has sold exactly 2,999 2024-W AGEs. Containing a full ounce of pure gold. Most of which at prices significantly below what people think the silver bells will be worth. Both sub 3K mintages. Both produced by the Mint.
But one is a tired series. The other is a novel offering tied to the semi-Q event. I don't think that's a fair comparison.
Not saying a silver bell is an AGE. Just saying everything does not have robust demand, just because it is made in very low numbers. And, absent very robust demand, it's puzzling why anyone would find these interesting at the price the Mint is seeking, regardless of the mintage. I personally find each of the BOM silver medals FAR more interesting than these. The fact that they are being sold at a fraction of the price is the least of the reasons why.
Why is it so puzzling?
a) The first non-asymmetrical us mint coin/medal.
b) SemiQ.
c) Low mintage
Just because these reasons don't excite you doesn't mean others aren't moved by them.
No one forced them to do this at all. Things like this should be made in reasonable quantities, at reasonable prices.
Modern Mint issues really should not be bespoke product only available to a select few. Maybe a 10 ounce gold whatever, if they want to test the market for something like that, but not a half ounce silver Liberty Bell commemorating the semisesquicentennial.
You are entitled to your opinion, but I see it that the mint is catering to the elite portion of their market base and have been for a few years now. Most people are just upset that they can't participate in the elite products, the same way most of us can't afford to participate in the market for Ferraris.
People here seem to imply this product offering is a miscalculation and "bad move" on the part of the mint. But I would bet this is a highly calculated move to cater to and serve higher margin clients and boost profits.
@NJCoin said:
To date, the Mint has sold exactly 2,999 2024-W AGEs. Containing a full ounce of pure gold. Most of which at prices significantly below what people think the silver bells will be worth. Both sub 3K mintages. Both produced by the Mint.
The mint has 4,759 more 24EH in inventory, so the final mintage will be around 7,759. Way over the gold bells.
These are also viewed as type coins by the market, so the total supply combines all the mintages. If it was a one-time issue it would have been a one-day sellout at a 3k mintage.
Not if they don't sell them and they are eventually melted down.
I'm not really convinced that the mint melts anything down anymore. I think that prior to the run up in platinum prices, in 2025 they were still trying to sell 2018 APEs. And from listening to coin dealer interviews, it seems like at some point someone with deep pockets makes deals with the mint to buy up old stale inventory.
As a result, as I've said before, that is going to leave you to battle with other flippers for one. A lot of people who might have actually wanted one will be out. Out at noon on the 16th, and out when you go to flip them.
But according to you this will be a dud and there will be a glut of these on ebay at sub-issue pricing. Which is it? Flipping opportunity depriving those who want one or dud leading to "dumping" on ebay at sub issue price?
@fathom said:
I'm struggling to know why the extreme pricing on the gold bells. Maybe they think they can retail them at a Tiffany or high end retailers besides the normal channels. It is an important milestone/anniversary.
Like I said, they are feeling confident about the brand.
Because they are catering to their elite customers, not us ASE/AGE & annual mint set rubes.
I think they need the rubes (your terminology) that is partly what is confounding.
Also to NJ ultimately you don't capture market value you earn it and keep it with proper merchandising and pricing to go along. That is also what is confounding.
Respectfully disagree. At least with things like this. The Mint sells at a price, and, if the quantity is low enough relative to demand, flippers capture excess profits.
The flippers certainly are not doing anything to create that excess value. They are just capturing it. Can't blame the Mint, who creates the value by creating the product, for wanting to capture it for taxpayers.
My issue with the bells is that it's all artificial, and I lack the imagination to understand why anyone would want to own a half ounce of silver molded in the shape of a Liberty Bell, at a cost of $750, or maybe thousands of dollars, just because it was made by the US Mint, and just because they only made 2,026 of them.
Either I am missing something, or this is nothing more than a greater fool hot potato, where the last people holding are going to get burned.
I can't see purchasing the gold coins..... and I am still reluctant to purchase the silver medal ,however I will take a chance at getting one thou. Time will tell how this will pan out ?
Again I wish the best to all who wishes for them .
What you're saying is it's all "Reddit insanity" until they agree with you...
Correct. This thread did not consist of a bunch of images of pocket change, asking if it was worth anything. So, yeah, they agree with me and they didn't seem like trolls.
Like I said, for what it's worth. A view from the street, rather than from out penthouse.
And, for what it's worth, not a single dissenting post. These are the people the flippers will be hoping to flip to. Retail not savvy enough to hit the website at exactly noon.
I admittedly don't know a ton of people who don't blink at dropping a few grand, or tens of thousands of dollars, on a single coin or medal. But, other than here, I don't know anyone who has any interest in the bells.
So, other than the scammers and schemers and flippers, I honestly don't know a single person who cared about the bells before the mintages were announced, and who is now all excited over the prospect of acquiring one of only 2,026 of them.
I am starting to think that retail flippers will be going for the silver, because they can swing it, but that both golds will be easily obtainable, because the juice won't be worth the squeeze in trying to flip them. And that they won't sell out, any more than the superhero coins did, because people with that kind of money to burn on a single coin won't be looking to burn it on artificial rarities shaped like bells.
TBD. Maybe I'm totally off base, but at least I'm willing to put it out here, as with the FH gold privies, where I was right, and others where I have been wrong.
What you're saying is it's all "Reddit insanity" until they agree with you...
Correct. This thread did not consist of a bunch of images of pocket change, asking if it was worth anything. So, yeah, they agree with me and they didn't seem like trolls.
Like I said, for what it's worth. A view from the street, rather than from out penthouse.
And, for what it's worth, not a single dissenting post. These are the people the flippers will be hoping to flip to. Retail not savvy enough to hit the website at exactly noon.
I admittedly don't know a ton of people who don't blink at dropping a few grand, or tens of thousands of dollars, on a single coin or medal. But, other than here, I don't know anyone who has any interest in the bells.
So, other than the scammers and schemers and flippers, I honestly don't know a single person who cared about the bells before the mintages were announced, and who is now all excited over the prospect of acquiring one of only 2,026 of them.
I am starting to think that retail flippers will be going for the silver, because they can swing it, but that both golds will be easily obtainable, because the juice won't be worth the squeeze in trying to flip them. And that they won't sell out, any more than the superhero coins did, because people with that kind of money to burn on a single coin won't be looking to burn it on artificial rarities shaped like bells.
TBD. Maybe I'm totally off base, but at least I'm willing to put it out here, as with the FH gold privies, where I was right, and others where I have been wrong.
I'll agree, this forum isn't indicative of the average collector. The average collector has never spent $750 on any coin, ever. But any $750 and up offering isn't aimed at the "average collector" anyway. Gold eagles, even the bullion variety, are not aimed at the average collector or even the average stacker. Those "average" folks don't have $4000 to plunk down on a coin all at once, either.
But, who knows. There may be 2,000 people in the numismatic penthouse...or not.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@NJCoin said:
No one actually needs them. Make them inaccessible, and they just might be ignored by the people you hope to sell to.
Read the article I posted above. It really does say it all, in a fair, unbiased way.
What? Nobody needs any of the coins the mint produces for collectors, none at all. The mint is a casino and always has been. You can sit on the sidelines and tell everyone to stay away, but some people like the casino and want to play the slots.
The idea that there is no demand for these is ludicrous.
It is unfortunate but in years past we would have got an explanation for these from the PR person who often said what was happening. Now it is crickets from the mint.
Keep up the good work and scare lots of people away so those of us who want to pull the lever can.
Comments
There are flippers for sure. But I'd argue that many people want it because they feel if they don't buy it from the mint it'll be a) more expensive in the after market and b) hard to find after a few months.
Not always. Some people profit handsomely. If you're saying this you haven't been paying attention.
But one is a tired series. The other is a novel offering tied to the semi-Q event. I don't think that's a fair comparison.
Why is it so puzzling?
a) The first non-asymmetrical us mint coin/medal.
b) SemiQ.
c) Low mintage
Just because these reasons don't excite you doesn't mean others aren't moved by them.
You are entitled to your opinion, but I see it that the mint is catering to the elite portion of their market base and have been for a few years now. Most people are just upset that they can't participate in the elite products, the same way most of us can't afford to participate in the market for Ferraris.
People here seem to imply this product offering is a miscalculation and "bad move" on the part of the mint. But I would bet this is a highly calculated move to cater to and serve higher margin clients and boost profits.
I'm not really convinced that the mint melts anything down anymore. I think that prior to the run up in platinum prices, in 2025 they were still trying to sell 2018 APEs. And from listening to coin dealer interviews, it seems like at some point someone with deep pockets makes deals with the mint to buy up old stale inventory.
But according to you this will be a dud and there will be a glut of these on ebay at sub-issue pricing. Which is it? Flipping opportunity depriving those who want one or dud leading to "dumping" on ebay at sub issue price?
Because they are catering to their elite customers, not us ASE/AGE & annual mint set rubes.
Thanks for the link to the very interesting article.
Some other differences w the Pan Pac...
Supposedly some of the profit from that issue was to support the event. This is just to make a ton for the Mint.
The Pac Pac was not super low mintage, it was super low sales due to price. Most got melted.
I also do not understand why The Mint seems to imply that these were so expensive to produce, while other world mints produce such items far, far less expensively. Also, many of them look nicer. I don't think these are that impressive looking for all the hype, price and discussion of technology. The Pan Pacs are fantastic looking.
Also, the Mint could have made each of these 2x their weight and still made a killing on them.
Just my opinion, of course.
I think they need the rubes (your terminology) that is partly what is confounding.
Also to NJ ultimately you don't capture market value you earn it and keep it with proper merchandising and pricing to go along. That is also what is confounding.
What you're saying is it's all "Reddit insanity" until they agree with you...
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Respectfully disagree. At least with things like this. The Mint sells at a price, and, if the quantity is low enough relative to demand, flippers capture excess profits.
The flippers certainly are not doing anything to create that excess value. They are just capturing it. Can't blame the Mint, who creates the value by creating the product, for wanting to capture it for taxpayers.
My issue with the bells is that it's all artificial, and I lack the imagination to understand why anyone would want to own a half ounce of silver molded in the shape of a Liberty Bell, at a cost of $750, or maybe thousands of dollars, just because it was made by the US Mint, and just because they only made 2,026 of them.
Either I am missing something, or this is nothing more than a greater fool hot potato, where the last people holding are going to get burned.
I can't see purchasing the gold coins..... and I am still reluctant to purchase the silver medal ,however I will take a chance at getting one thou. Time will tell how this will pan out ?
Again I wish the best to all who wishes for them .
Correct. This thread did not consist of a bunch of images of pocket change, asking if it was worth anything. So, yeah, they agree with me and they didn't seem like trolls.
Like I said, for what it's worth. A view from the street, rather than from out penthouse.
And, for what it's worth, not a single dissenting post. These are the people the flippers will be hoping to flip to. Retail not savvy enough to hit the website at exactly noon.
I admittedly don't know a ton of people who don't blink at dropping a few grand, or tens of thousands of dollars, on a single coin or medal. But, other than here, I don't know anyone who has any interest in the bells.
So, other than the scammers and schemers and flippers, I honestly don't know a single person who cared about the bells before the mintages were announced, and who is now all excited over the prospect of acquiring one of only 2,026 of them.
I am starting to think that retail flippers will be going for the silver, because they can swing it, but that both golds will be easily obtainable, because the juice won't be worth the squeeze in trying to flip them. And that they won't sell out, any more than the superhero coins did, because people with that kind of money to burn on a single coin won't be looking to burn it on artificial rarities shaped like bells.
TBD. Maybe I'm totally off base, but at least I'm willing to put it out here, as with the FH gold privies, where I was right, and others where I have been wrong.
I'll agree, this forum isn't indicative of the average collector. The average collector has never spent $750 on any coin, ever. But any $750 and up offering isn't aimed at the "average collector" anyway. Gold eagles, even the bullion variety, are not aimed at the average collector or even the average stacker. Those "average" folks don't have $4000 to plunk down on a coin all at once, either.
But, who knows. There may be 2,000 people in the numismatic penthouse...or not.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
What? Nobody needs any of the coins the mint produces for collectors, none at all. The mint is a casino and always has been. You can sit on the sidelines and tell everyone to stay away, but some people like the casino and want to play the slots.
The idea that there is no demand for these is ludicrous.
It is unfortunate but in years past we would have got an explanation for these from the PR person who often said what was happening. Now it is crickets from the mint.
Keep up the good work and scare lots of people away so those of us who want to pull the lever can.