@WCC said:
Comparing this medal to the Pac Pac $50 is using a similar flawed inference to the assumptions in Jordan's books. He compared US NCLT to a variety of 1906-1936 US coins. He presumably wanted his readers to believe there is comparability, but there isn't and won't be, because the assumptions of collector motivation (hobbyist collectors, not "investors") in both books I bought are flat out wrong.
You bring this up repeatedly but the facts show the market behaves like there is. That is the whole point.
It is an attempt to make sense of the coin market, and nothing else.
These do compare to how the mint issued the panpacs by jacking up the price and making it difficult to buy. They have artificially done what happened in 1915 again.
However, I hope everyone listens to you, and stays away.
Because you want to gather a dozen to bequeath to your heirs, or because you think "everyone" will want to buy them from you at a huge premium, after "staying away" at launch?
Because, if "everyone" actually listens to us, you are going find yourself stuck with $750 half ounces of silver.
Reminds me of your 2024 silver and gold flowing hair projection and the abundance of pages worth of you being wrong. Plenty more pages too of your excuses.
No reason to not believe there is not buy and hold demand of at least 2026 people for the silver. If someone would guarantee me one for $1000 and I did not need to sneak away at work during order period I would pay the premium.
TBD. But go back and take another look, because I was pretty spot on regarding the FH gold privies, while everyone else thought I was nuts.
Now, we are all on the opposite side. People thought 230 FH gold privies would hardly sell for more than proof AGEs, because they weren't part of a series.
People now think 2,026 of anything is worth moon money. We'll see.
My point is that $750 is already moon money for these, and that no one will actually want them for their collection at $750.
Sure, 5,000 people might slam the website looking for a flip. I can't wait to see who they flip to, and at what prices, assuming anyone actually has an interest in building Liberty Bell sets, rather than just finding people to flip them to.
I don't think there are enough to get the telemarketers interested. If I'm right, that pulls significant organic demand right out of the pool. After that, who's left?
Who here actually wants them for their collections? I haven't seen a single person yet.
You, at $1,000? Or you, because you think you'll be able to flip it for at least $2,000?
@WCC said:
Comparing this medal to the Pac Pac $50 is using a similar flawed inference to the assumptions in Jordan's books. He compared US NCLT to a variety of 1906-1936 US coins. He presumably wanted his readers to believe there is comparability, but there isn't and won't be, because the assumptions of collector motivation (hobbyist collectors, not "investors") in both books I bought are flat out wrong.
You bring this up repeatedly but the facts show the market behaves like there is. That is the whole point.
It is an attempt to make sense of the coin market, and nothing else.
These do compare to how the mint issued the panpacs by jacking up the price and making it difficult to buy. They have artificially done what happened in 1915 again.
However, I hope everyone listens to you, and stays away.
Because you want to gather a dozen to bequeath to your heirs, or because you think "everyone" will want to buy them from you at a huge premium, after "staying away" at launch?
Because, if "everyone" actually listens to us, you are going find yourself stuck with $750 half ounces of silver.
Reminds me of your 2024 silver and gold flowing hair projection and the abundance of pages worth of you being wrong. Plenty more pages too of your excuses.
No reason to not believe there is not buy and hold demand of at least 2026 people for the silver. If someone would guarantee me one for $1000 and I did not need to sneak away at work during order period I would pay the premium.
TBD. But go back and take another look, because I was pretty spot on regarding the FH gold privies, while everyone else thought I was nuts.
Now, we are all on the opposite side. People thought 230 FH gold privies would hardly sell for more than proof AGEs, because they weren't part of a series.
People now think 2,026 of anything is worth moon money. We'll see.
My point is that $750 is already moon money for these, and that no one will actually want them for their collection at $750.
Sure, 5,000 people might slam the website looking for a flip. I can't wait to see who they flip to, and at what prices, assuming anyone actually has an interest in building Liberty Bell sets, rather than just finding people to flip them to.
I don't think there are enough to get the telemarketers interested. If I'm right, that pulls significant organic demand right out of the pool. After that, who's left?
Who here actually wants them for their collections? I haven't seen a single person yet.
You, at $1,000? Or you, because you think you'll be able to flip it for at least $2,000?
The blind opinion of who ever serves me coffee at drive thru is worth more than what you present. It is said, but the truth is you are consistently wrong and your posts are only for social engagement rather than presenting something of value. Sad and depressing to think some people have only this form of social interaction.
Of course I want one. Your negative bias gets in the way of what is clearly laid out. Why do you think I said would pay the premium for one that was guaranteed?
Like I said, your posts are only for social engagement and you got this response once, but in the end your content is not worth reading and will continue to be blocked.
Fortunately people were wise enough to dismiss you 2024. People are smart enough to dismiss you again. You’re free to make yourself into a fool.
2026 dime is nice, however there has not been anything of significance that personally appealed to me this year.
The mint stepped up with these bells.
People can complain about the weights, mintage, price….sad thing is a lot of people get on this forum to complain. In the end they don’t have it in themselves to be happy.
2026 dime is nice, however there has not been anything of significance that personally appealed to me this year.
The mint stepped up with these bells.
People can complain about the weights, mintage, price….sad thing is a lot of people get on this forum to complain. In the end they don’t have it in themselves to be happy.
I for one am glad to see the bells offered.
Yeah. I think it could go either way. But I don't see any reason to dump on them. If you don't want one, don't buy one.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@WCC said:
Comparing this medal to the Pac Pac $50 is using a similar flawed inference to the assumptions in Jordan's books. He compared US NCLT to a variety of 1906-1936 US coins. He presumably wanted his readers to believe there is comparability, but there isn't and won't be, because the assumptions of collector motivation (hobbyist collectors, not "investors") in both books I bought are flat out wrong.
You bring this up repeatedly but the facts show the market behaves like there is. That is the whole point.
It is an attempt to make sense of the coin market, and nothing else.
These do compare to how the mint issued the panpacs by jacking up the price and making it difficult to buy. They have artificially done what happened in 1915 again.
However, I hope everyone listens to you, and stays away.
Because you want to gather a dozen to bequeath to your heirs, or because you think "everyone" will want to buy them from you at a huge premium, after "staying away" at launch?
Because, if "everyone" actually listens to us, you are going find yourself stuck with $750 half ounces of silver.
Reminds me of your 2024 silver and gold flowing hair projection and the abundance of pages worth of you being wrong. Plenty more pages too of your excuses.
No reason to not believe there is not buy and hold demand of at least 2026 people for the silver. If someone would guarantee me one for $1000 and I did not need to sneak away at work during order period I would pay the premium.
TBD. But go back and take another look, because I was pretty spot on regarding the FH gold privies, while everyone else thought I was nuts.
Now, we are all on the opposite side. People thought 230 FH gold privies would hardly sell for more than proof AGEs, because they weren't part of a series.
People now think 2,026 of anything is worth moon money. We'll see.
My point is that $750 is already moon money for these, and that no one will actually want them for their collection at $750.
Sure, 5,000 people might slam the website looking for a flip. I can't wait to see who they flip to, and at what prices, assuming anyone actually has an interest in building Liberty Bell sets, rather than just finding people to flip them to.
I don't think there are enough to get the telemarketers interested. If I'm right, that pulls significant organic demand right out of the pool. After that, who's left?
Who here actually wants them for their collections? I haven't seen a single person yet.
You, at $1,000? Or you, because you think you'll be able to flip it for at least $2,000?
The blind opinion of who ever serves me coffee at drive thru is worth more than what you present. It is said, but the truth is you are consistently wrong and your posts are only for social engagement rather than presenting something of value. Sad and depressing to think some people have only this form of social interaction.
Of course I want one. Your negative bias gets in the way of what is clearly laid out. Why do you think I said would pay the premium for one that was guaranteed?
Like I said, your posts are only for social engagement and you got this response once, but in the end your content is not worth reading and will continue to be blocked.
Fortunately people were wise enough to dismiss you 2024. People are smart enough to dismiss you again. You’re free to make yourself into a fool.
Boo hoo. My content is going to be blocked.
Who asked? Who cares?
No one asked you to engage or respond. You have no one but yourself to blame.
@HalfDime said:
The 1915 U.S. population was roughly 28.81% of today's total population, meaning the country is nearly 3.5 times larger than it was back then.
Translated this into coin demand.
645 mintage 1915
2238 mintage 2026
Of coarse the absolute differences matter. But on a relative scale these are selling fewer per capita than back then.
Bottom line, "relative scale per capita" is meaningless. All that matters is demand.
There is organic demand for hundreds of thousands of some things, and virtually no demand for others. No one knows where these are going to fall yet, because the Mint has never made anything like this before.
If this was an ASE variant with a mintage of 2026, it would be a slam dunk. But it isn't. So we just don't know.
But this is where I am coming from, and if you think my analysis of the market is flawed, we can agree to disagree.
I happen to think that, unlike 2021 Morgan and Peace Dollars, or proof ASEs, if they tried to sell 100K of these at a normal price of around $100, that they would not sell out. That's my baseline. If you think I'm wrong, because hundreds of thousands of people would want these as a 250th keepsake if the price was right, that's the disconnect.
But, if you accept my theory that they couldn't sell 100K at $100, that's why I think they wouldn't even sell 2026 at $750 if they said they would make up to 100K at that price is demand so warranted. If that's correct, then the only reason people are interested is because they are answering the Pavlovian bell and jumping because they are being told only 2026 will be made.
Which is fine. But, if 2026 people wouldn't want them at $750 if they were easy to get, why would that many people want them at significantly higher prices just because they are not easy to get? This is why series like the First Spouse series die, and at far lower pricing.
That's the $64,000 Question here. Casual observers who might have wanted one as a 250th keepsake will be turned off by the price, $750 or higher. As I said before, not enough will be available to be worth mass marketers' time.
That leaves flippers, since serious coin collectors won't even view these as coins. I just can't wrap my head around who flippers will be flipping to. I guess we'll see.
If dealers like Pinehurst publish buy offers before release, I'm wrong. Otherwise, buyer beware here, if the game is greater fool rather than adding half ounce silver Liberty Bell replicas at $750 to your collection.
@NJCoin said:
Because, if "everyone" actually listens to us, you are going find yourself stuck with $750 half ounces of silver.
Oh, the horror of it. To be stuck with a silver bell from the US Mint celebrating 250 years of our nation.
No. To be stuck with a half ounce of silver at $750.
You could get yourself a beautiful replica bell, that rings and everything, for $8.99 plus shipping, if a Liberty Bell "to celebrate 250 years of our nation" is what you want. Direct from Philadelphia. Just like the Mint.
"From the US Mint" actually means next to nothing nowadays, given all the crap they have been pushing out lately. This is just the latest cynical example.
@WCC said:
Comparing this medal to the Pac Pac $50 is using a similar flawed inference to the assumptions in Jordan's books. He compared US NCLT to a variety of 1906-1936 US coins. He presumably wanted his readers to believe there is comparability, but there isn't and won't be, because the assumptions of collector motivation (hobbyist collectors, not "investors") in both books I bought are flat out wrong.
You bring this up repeatedly but the facts show the market behaves like there is. That is the whole point.
It is an attempt to make sense of the coin market, and nothing else.
These do compare to how the mint issued the panpacs by jacking up the price and making it difficult to buy. They have artificially done what happened in 1915 again.
However, I hope everyone listens to you, and stays away.
Because you want to gather a dozen to bequeath to your heirs, or because you think "everyone" will want to buy them from you at a huge premium, after "staying away" at launch?
Because, if "everyone" actually listens to us, you are going find yourself stuck with $750 half ounces of silver.
Reminds me of your 2024 silver and gold flowing hair projection and the abundance of pages worth of you being wrong. Plenty more pages too of your excuses.
No reason to not believe there is not buy and hold demand of at least 2026 people for the silver. If someone would guarantee me one for $1000 and I did not need to sneak away at work during order period I would pay the premium.
TBD. But go back and take another look, because I was pretty spot on regarding the FH gold privies, while everyone else thought I was nuts.
Now, we are all on the opposite side. People thought 230 FH gold privies would hardly sell for more than proof AGEs, because they weren't part of a series.
People now think 2,026 of anything is worth moon money. We'll see.
My point is that $750 is already moon money for these, and that no one will actually want them for their collection at $750.
Sure, 5,000 people might slam the website looking for a flip. I can't wait to see who they flip to, and at what prices, assuming anyone actually has an interest in building Liberty Bell sets, rather than just finding people to flip them to.
I don't think there are enough to get the telemarketers interested. If I'm right, that pulls significant organic demand right out of the pool. After that, who's left?
Who here actually wants them for their collections? I haven't seen a single person yet.
You, at $1,000? Or you, because you think you'll be able to flip it for at least $2,000?
I think most people on this forum have seen you be confidently wrong about enough to not really care or put much stock into your predictions. You talk just to hear your own voice.
@NJCoin said:
Because, if "everyone" actually listens to us, you are going find yourself stuck with $750 half ounces of silver.
Oh, the horror of it. To be stuck with a silver bell from the US Mint celebrating 250 years of our nation.
No. To be stuck with a half ounce of silver at $750.
You could get yourself a beautiful replica bell, that rings and everything, for $8.99 plus shipping, if a Liberty Bell "to celebrate 250 years of our nation" is what you want. Direct from Philadelphia. Just like the Mint.
"From the US Mint" actually means next to nothing nowadays, given all the crap they have been pushing out lately. This is just the latest cynical example.
@WCC said:
Comparing this medal to the Pac Pac $50 is using a similar flawed inference to the assumptions in Jordan's books. He compared US NCLT to a variety of 1906-1936 US coins. He presumably wanted his readers to believe there is comparability, but there isn't and won't be, because the assumptions of collector motivation (hobbyist collectors, not "investors") in both books I bought are flat out wrong.
You bring this up repeatedly but the facts show the market behaves like there is. That is the whole point.
It is an attempt to make sense of the coin market, and nothing else.
These do compare to how the mint issued the panpacs by jacking up the price and making it difficult to buy. They have artificially done what happened in 1915 again.
However, I hope everyone listens to you, and stays away.
Because you want to gather a dozen to bequeath to your heirs, or because you think "everyone" will want to buy them from you at a huge premium, after "staying away" at launch?
Because, if "everyone" actually listens to us, you are going find yourself stuck with $750 half ounces of silver.
Reminds me of your 2024 silver and gold flowing hair projection and the abundance of pages worth of you being wrong. Plenty more pages too of your excuses.
No reason to not believe there is not buy and hold demand of at least 2026 people for the silver. If someone would guarantee me one for $1000 and I did not need to sneak away at work during order period I would pay the premium.
TBD. But go back and take another look, because I was pretty spot on regarding the FH gold privies, while everyone else thought I was nuts.
Now, we are all on the opposite side. People thought 230 FH gold privies would hardly sell for more than proof AGEs, because they weren't part of a series.
People now think 2,026 of anything is worth moon money. We'll see.
My point is that $750 is already moon money for these, and that no one will actually want them for their collection at $750.
Sure, 5,000 people might slam the website looking for a flip. I can't wait to see who they flip to, and at what prices, assuming anyone actually has an interest in building Liberty Bell sets, rather than just finding people to flip them to.
I don't think there are enough to get the telemarketers interested. If I'm right, that pulls significant organic demand right out of the pool. After that, who's left?
Who here actually wants them for their collections? I haven't seen a single person yet.
You, at $1,000? Or you, because you think you'll be able to flip it for at least $2,000?
I think most people on this forum have seen you be confidently wrong about enough to not really care or put much stock into your predictions. You talk just to hear your own voice.
Maybe. Thanks for sharing. I really appreciate it, and will be sure to take it into consideration when deciding whether or not to post in the future. 🤣🤣🤣
@NJCoin said:
Because, if "everyone" actually listens to us, you are going find yourself stuck with $750 half ounces of silver.
Oh, the horror of it. To be stuck with a silver bell from the US Mint celebrating 250 years of our nation.
No. To be stuck with a half ounce of silver at $750.
You could get yourself a beautiful replica bell, that rings and everything, for $8.99 plus shipping, if a Liberty Bell "to celebrate 250 years of our nation" is what you want. Direct from Philadelphia. Just like the Mint.
"From the US Mint" actually means next to nothing nowadays, given all the crap they have been pushing out lately. This is just the latest cynical example.
So, you would recommend coin collectors buy the cheaper Chinese knockoff rather than the genuine US Mint product?
I'm not a huge fan of this particular issue, but I hardly think a $9 bell is a coin substitute.
No. I would recommend that coin collectors who want a replica Liberty Bell "celebrating 250 years of our nation" buy a cast metal one that rings for $8.99.
Coin collectors who want a flat half ounce silver one manufactured by the US Mint in extremely limited quantities should take out a 401k loan and spend whatever a predator on eBay demands in order to add one to their collection, before the opportunity is lost forever. 😀
You're right, the $9 bell is not a "coin substitute." Neither is the half ounce silver tchotchke being peddled by the Mint.
Neither are coins. One actually looks like the real thing, and rings. For $8.99. The other costs $750+ and does nothing.
@NJCoin said:
No. To be stuck with a half ounce of silver at $750.
six grand for one ounce
Sweet! The modern Mint must be doing something right!
The Mint sold that one for $104, so I'm not sure how the fact that someone bought it in a slab 2 years later for $6,000 has anything to do with the Mint, but okay.
Get back to me after they sell 6,078 Liberty Bells for a combined $40 million, and we can all congratulate the Mint on the fine job it is doing separating suckers from their money.
No one asked you to engage or respond. You have no one but yourself to blame.
We can only imagine you would be great with balloon animals and perhaps a more appropriate field you should pursue.
Your persistent illustration of ignorance absolutely lays upon yourself to blame.
Almost comical aside from the idea that someone not knowing better would give your misguided views any weight.
Guess my content hasn't been blocked yet, huh? 🤣🤣🤣
What are you waiting for?????
He's busy trying to find a ringing bell for less than $8.99
No. He's busy trying to insult me while hanging onto my every word.
I am actually starting to feel sorry for you...
No need. I'm fine, and don't need anyone reading my posts, ignoring my posts, liking me, disliking me, feeling sorry for me, whatever.
I post for myself, and for anyone who finds value in anything I have to say. Everyone else can read, ignore, block, get irritated, whatever. Doesn't impact me one way or the other.
@NJCoin said:
No. To be stuck with a half ounce of silver at $750.
six grand for one ounce
Sweet! The modern Mint must be doing something right!
The Mint sold that one for $104, so I'm not sure how the fact that someone bought it in a slab 2 years later for $6,000 has anything to do with the Mint, but okay.
They are making coins that collectors want!
And offering them at affordable prices at time of issue for this one.
@NJCoin said:
No. To be stuck with a half ounce of silver at $750.
six grand for one ounce
Sweet! The modern Mint must be doing something right!
The Mint sold that one for $104, so I'm not sure how the fact that someone bought it in a slab 2 years later for $6,000 has anything to do with the Mint, but okay.
They are making coins that collectors want!
And offering them at affordable prices at time of issue for this one.
True. TBD whether or not that will apply to this series, at these prices.
@WCC said:
Comparing this medal to the Pac Pac $50 is using a similar flawed inference to the assumptions in Jordan's books. He compared US NCLT to a variety of 1906-1936 US coins. He presumably wanted his readers to believe there is comparability, but there isn't and won't be, because the assumptions of collector motivation (hobbyist collectors, not "investors") in both books I bought are flat out wrong.
You bring this up repeatedly but the facts show the market behaves like there is. That is the whole point.
It is an attempt to make sense of the coin market, and nothing else.
These do compare to how the mint issued the panpacs by jacking up the price and making it difficult to buy. They have artificially done what happened in 1915 again.
However, I hope everyone listens to you, and stays away.
Because you want to gather a dozen to bequeath to your heirs, or because you think "everyone" will want to buy them from you at a huge premium, after "staying away" at launch?
Because, if "everyone" actually listens to us, you are going find yourself stuck with $750 half ounces of silver.
Reminds me of your 2024 silver and gold flowing hair projection and the abundance of pages worth of you being wrong. Plenty more pages too of your excuses.
No reason to not believe there is not buy and hold demand of at least 2026 people for the silver. If someone would guarantee me one for $1000 and I did not need to sneak away at work during order period I would pay the premium.
TBD. But go back and take another look, because I was pretty spot on regarding the FH gold privies, while everyone else thought I was nuts.
Now, we are all on the opposite side. People thought 230 FH gold privies would hardly sell for more than proof AGEs, because they weren't part of a series.
People now think 2,026 of anything is worth moon money. We'll see.
My point is that $750 is already moon money for these, and that no one will actually want them for their collection at $750.
Sure, 5,000 people might slam the website looking for a flip. I can't wait to see who they flip to, and at what prices, assuming anyone actually has an interest in building Liberty Bell sets, rather than just finding people to flip them to.
I don't think there are enough to get the telemarketers interested. If I'm right, that pulls significant organic demand right out of the pool. After that, who's left?
Who here actually wants them for their collections? I haven't seen a single person yet.
You, at $1,000? Or you, because you think you'll be able to flip it for at least $2,000?
I think most people on this forum have seen you be confidently wrong about enough to not really care or put much stock into your predictions. You talk just to hear your own voice.
@Liquidated said:
Reminds me of your 2024 silver and gold flowing hair projection and the abundance of pages worth of you being wrong. Plenty more pages too of your excuses.
This will be deja vu all over again for NJ. $750 is not moon money for a 2026 mintage.
@Liquidated said:
Reminds me of your 2024 silver and gold flowing hair projection and the abundance of pages worth of you being wrong. Plenty more pages too of your excuses.
This will be deja vu all over again for NJ. $750 is not moon money for a 2026 mintage.
I'm gonna put my name in the hat , I wish everyone the best !
@Liquidated said:
Reminds me of your 2024 silver and gold flowing hair projection and the abundance of pages worth of you being wrong. Plenty more pages too of your excuses.
This will be deja vu all over again for NJ. $750 is not moon money for a 2026 mintage.
TBD. Seems like a lot for a half ounce silver bell to me. No matter who made it, or how many they made.
He's already changing his tune & backtracking. You can see it a mile away.
However, it's soo refreshing to see a single sentence vs a 6 paragraph monologue that repeats itself over & over & over again for the entire thread! SMH.
@Rc5280 said:
He's already changing his tune & backtracking. You can see it a mile away.
However, it's soo refreshing to see a single sentence vs a 6 paragraph monologue that repeats itself over & over & over again for the entire thread! SMH.
This is one of those issues where I think any responsible assessment has to leave options open. It's a Mint first. It's a relatively low mintage, but not incredibly so, for a silver medal. It is a medal not a coin. The price is quite high. It's easy to see it as a 5 minute sell out or a total flop... and everything in between.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@WCC said:
Comparing this medal to the Pac Pac $50 is using a similar flawed inference to the assumptions in Jordan's books. He compared US NCLT to a variety of 1906-1936 US coins. He presumably wanted his readers to believe there is comparability, but there isn't and won't be, because the assumptions of collector motivation (hobbyist collectors, not "investors") in both books I bought are flat out wrong.
You bring this up repeatedly but the facts show the market behaves like there is. That is the whole point.
It is an attempt to make sense of the coin market, and nothing else.
These do compare to how the mint issued the panpacs by jacking up the price and making it difficult to buy. They have artificially done what happened in 1915 again.
However, I hope everyone listens to you, and stays away.
Wrong.
Most NCLT isn't difficult to buy for much of the far more affluent collector base of today. No one had to be affluent to buy most of the NCLT profiled in his books. It's that the coins he profiled and that you repeatedly financially promote aren't the collectibles either of you imply or claim.
That's where both of you go wrong.
He wasn't writing about inflated issue prices, and I'm not only writing of the $750 price. The entire point of his books was to identify candidates for future appreciation. Why else do you think he bothered to write it?
Do the math for yourself. Using the last Heritage sales, applying the Pan-Pac $50 increase since 1915 would make this silver medal issued @$750 worth $24K or $36K in today's money at some future date.
Seriously, you believe this is credible? If this wasn't your point, then why did you use the Pan-Pac $50 as an example? There is no similarity between these two, at all.
Maybe Jordan's premises in both books I read reflect financially motivated buyers who only buy NCLT, but it doesn't reflect how hobbyist collectors think. ASEs aren't Morgan dollars, the $50 platinum isn't comparable to the 1936 proof WLH, and the fractional gold buffalos doesn't compare to Indian Head proof QE.
He made all three comparisons, and numerous other inaccurate analogies.
No one who actually understands the coin market believes comparisons like this are accurate, which is the only reason anyone reading these two books would believe it either.
@HalfDime said:
The 1915 U.S. population was roughly 28.81% of today's total population, meaning the country is nearly 3.5 times larger than it was back then.
Translated this into coin demand.
645 mintage 1915
2238 mintage 2026
Of coarse the absolute differences matter. But on a relative scale these are selling fewer per capita than back then.
Population doesn't have the correlation you're implying. Participation rate doesn't change equally with the population, especially when the majority of the increase demographically is from groups who don't come from collecting cultures and have no reason to want any US coin at all.
@HalfDime said:
The 1915 U.S. population was roughly 28.81% of today's total population, meaning the country is nearly 3.5 times larger than it was back then.
Translated this into coin demand.
645 mintage 1915
2238 mintage 2026
Of coarse the absolute differences matter. But on a relative scale these are selling fewer per capita than back then.
Population doesn't have the correlation you're implying. Participation rate doesn't change equally with the population, especially when the majority of the increase demographically is from groups who don't come from collecting cultures and have no reason to want any US coin at all.
I'm not sure your demographics are accurate. Yes, recent immigration is from cultures that may not collect. But you're ignoring the broader wealth in the population than 1915 as well as the increase in collecting culture within the domestic population. Even if that has decreased in recent years, it exploded in the post war era.
Not that I think that the Pan Pac is remotely a good comparison, in part because of that increased collecting base.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@Rc5280 said:
He's already changing his tune & backtracking. You can see it a mile away.
However, it's soo refreshing to see a single sentence vs a 6 paragraph monologue that repeats itself over & over & over again for the entire thread! SMH.
This is one of those issues where I think any responsible assessment has to leave options open. It's a Mint first. It's a relatively low mintage, but not incredibly so, for a silver medal. It is a medal not a coin. The price is quite high. It's easy to see it as a 5 minute sell out or a total flop... and everything in between.
Just based on the sentiment here, it looks like the silver will sell out quickly. I'm not "backtracking" on anything.
I still think it's extremely overpriced crap, and have been consistently saying people only want it because they think they will be able to flip it for more. Not because any reasonable collector feels that their coin collection will not be complete without a $750+ half ounce silver ingot shaped in the form of the Liberty Bell.
I have also consistently said, not that I will "backtrack," but affirmatively admit I was wrong, if a robust secondary market develops for these things at prices significantly above $750. My point is that there needs to be organic demand for these at prices well above $750 in order for that to happen, and that I just don't think that demand will exist.
Purchases based on nothing other than the greater fool theory always ends in pain and disappointment. And I haven't heard a single person here say anything positive about this, other than the low mintage.
People promoting this are ignoring low mintages of plenty of other items sold at far more reasonable prices, thinking there will be instant demand for anything related to the semisesquicentennial. We'll see.
To date, the Mint has sold exactly 2,999 2024-W AGEs. Containing a full ounce of pure gold. Most of which at prices significantly below what people think the silver bells will be worth. Both sub 3K mintages. Both produced by the Mint.
Not saying a silver bell is an AGE. Just saying everything does not have robust demand, just because it is made in very low numbers. And, absent very robust demand, it's puzzling why anyone would find these interesting at the price the Mint is seeking, regardless of the mintage. I personally find each of the BOM silver medals FAR more interesting than these. The fact that they are being sold at a fraction of the price is the least of the reasons why.
The fact that you are correct insofar as it's a Mint first, so no one knows, is the whole point. People see 2,026, and their minds immediately race to FH silver privy medals, and they see a home run. I see a bunch of Pavlovian dogs responding to a 2,026 bell.
So we'll see. Either a lucky few will grab one at $750 and flip it for $3-5K, or 2,026 people will be slamming eBay 5 minutes after they slam the Mint website, and they will either be stuck with $1,500 an ounce silver they never really wanted, or will dump it for whatever they can get.
Or, but only if the stars perfectly align, the Mint will get slammed with 2,026 returns, and they will learn never to try anything like this ever again. Because, like many recent things with the Mint, this it totally unnecessary.
No one forced them to do this at all. Things like this should be made in reasonable quantities, at reasonable prices.
Modern Mint issues really should not be bespoke product only available to a select few. Maybe a 10 ounce gold whatever, if they want to test the market for something like that, but not a half ounce silver Liberty Bell commemorating the semisesquicentennial.
I'm frequently one to buy expensive modern issues if I like them and think that they'll hold value (thought I don't buy to sell).
I know it's somewhat stupid, but if the silver were a coin I'd really consider it and take a gamble. It has a lot of unique things going for it. With that said, "coin" is loose here for the reasons that others have stated. Foreign mints make stuff like this all the time. Some foreign gold issues are in the 50 mintage range (no idea how they make that worth it production wise).
However, being that it's a medal, it's just not for me.
I'd just never pay what they're asking for either of the gold.
For those who go after these I wish you the best of luck. I hope that you like them and that they appreciate if that is part of your calculus.
It will be very interesting to see how this plays out.
I would think that the silver being a medal and not a coin will really temper demand. I have no idea if I'm right, of course.
@WCC said:
He made all three comparisons, and numerous other inaccurate analogies.
No one who actually understands the coin market believes comparisons like this are accurate, which is the only reason anyone reading these two books would believe it either.
You can keep claiming all this but we made a lot of money back when his books were published and many people here have later as well whether they have read his book or not. The underlying fundamentals of the coin market are fairly accurately described. How did the US Mint arrive at the prices for these bells? It sounds like they read his book.
Now to be fair, his main book is outdated. If he updated it there would be changes made. Nobody is perfect and nobody should expect perfection in such a book. You seem to hate moderns and just have to run them down any chance you get.
The panpacs were not released into circulation, the ones that went unsold were melted down. These bells are artificially being released in a per capita mintage equivalent or slightly under the panpacs. Fact.
The future appreciation will involve inflation, and yes they can hit the number you mention.
Can you tell all of us here why the Flowing Hair silver Privy medals are selling for up to $10,000 using coin theory? No. But they are. His book makes the case using coin theory based on earlier examples.
Many of the low mintage classics you keep bringing up are viewed as type coins by the market, and as such they are priced that way. The market seems to separate coins a few different ways. You always confuse them together.
PS Many have made lots of money on moderns, they are not the NCLT disaster you claim.
@NJCoin said:
To date, the Mint has sold exactly 2,999 2024-W AGEs. Containing a full ounce of pure gold. Most of which at prices significantly below what people think the silver bells will be worth. Both sub 3K mintages. Both produced by the Mint.
The mint has 4,759 more 24EH in inventory, so the final mintage will be around 7,759. Way over the gold bells.
These are also viewed as type coins by the market, so the total supply combines all the mintages. If it was a one-time issue it would have been a one-day sellout at a 3k mintage.
@NJCoin said:
To date, the Mint has sold exactly 2,999 2024-W AGEs. Containing a full ounce of pure gold. Most of which at prices significantly below what people think the silver bells will be worth. Both sub 3K mintages. Both produced by the Mint.
The mint has 4,759 more 24EH in inventory, so the final mintage will be around 7,759. Way over the gold bells.
These are also viewed as type coins by the market, so the total supply combines all the mintages. If it was a one-time issue it would have been a one-day sellout at a 3k mintage.
Not if they don't sell them and they are eventually melted down.
My point is simply to note that low mintages are great, but are only one half of the equation. Your analysis is based on a Field of Dreams theory that anything the Mint makes will have significant demand. But we all know that is simply not the case.
And the only thing I am hearing now about Liberty Bells is low mintage. Not great design. Not accolades that the Mint is finally joining PAMP and making things they call coins and medals that bear no resemblance to traditional coins and medals.
Just "2,026 -- inevitable winner." And, that might actually be the case if they were sold at traditional pricing, creating a frenzied free for all at launch. You, and anyone else excited over this, are ignoring that $750 is going to kill a lot of organic demand right off the bat.
As a result, as I've said before, that is going to leave you to battle with other flippers for one. A lot of people who might have actually wanted one will be out. Out at noon on the 16th, and out when you go to flip them.
I also think mass marketers, who usually account for significant demand, will be out because there simply will not be enough of them for them to want to devote significant resources into hyping. I'll be wrong if Mike is offering the gold on HSN for $50K, in a special ANACS holder, and the silver for $10K. Otherwise, that's another market you won't be able to flip into.
So, who's left? I don't think anyone. And I admit, I'll be wrong if there are actually more than 2,000 people willing to pay whatever to add this to their collection.
@NJCoin said:
So, who's left? I don't think anyone. And I admit, I'll be wrong if there are actually more than 2,000 people willing to pay whatever to add this to their collection.
Don't worry, the mint will go back to only issuing round coins next year. That's what makes these so special.
@NJCoin said:
So, who's left? I don't think anyone. And I admit, I'll be wrong if there are actually more than 2,000 people willing to pay whatever to add this to their collection.
Don't worry, the mint will go back to only issuing round coins next year. That's what makes these so special.
Or, makes them so irrelevant. TBD.
No one actually needs them. Make them inaccessible, and they just might be ignored by the people you hope to sell to.
Read the article I posted above. It really does say it all, in a fair, unbiased way.
I'm struggling to know why the extreme pricing on the gold bells. Maybe they think they can retail them at a Tiffany or high end retailers besides the normal channels. It is an important milestone/anniversary.
Like I said, they are feeling confident about the brand.
@fathom said:
I'm struggling to know why the extreme pricing on the gold bells. Maybe they think they can retail them at a Tiffany or high end retailers besides the normal channels. It is an important milestone/anniversary.
Like I said, they are feeling confident about the brand.
Nothing to "struggle" over. They think they have something very desirable, are creating artificial scarcity, and are then taking the next natural progression in pricing by trying to capture as much of the ultimate market value as possible.
It's no different from $124.50 for a base metal annual coin set. Just on another scale. It actually makes perfect sense, assuming the demand is there.
I just happen to think it isn't. I also think it is obnoxious to go out of their way to create modern rarities, rather than giving average collectors the opportunity to collect. Alienate enough of them, and you enter a downward spiral that will ultimately result in the death of the hobby. As though the move away from cash in everyday commerce isn't already creating enough of a headwind.
But, if 2,026 one ounce gold Liberty Bells will be worth $20K on eBay a month after release, there is no reason for the Mint to leave $15K for flippers rather than capturing as much of that as possible for the taxpayers. Same with the other Liberty Bells.
I also just happen to think it's all overpriced crap, and the Mint should either not bother at all, or make these things in reasonable quantities and then sell them at reasonable prices.
Comments
TBD. But go back and take another look, because I was pretty spot on regarding the FH gold privies, while everyone else thought I was nuts.
Now, we are all on the opposite side. People thought 230 FH gold privies would hardly sell for more than proof AGEs, because they weren't part of a series.
People now think 2,026 of anything is worth moon money. We'll see.
My point is that $750 is already moon money for these, and that no one will actually want them for their collection at $750.
Sure, 5,000 people might slam the website looking for a flip. I can't wait to see who they flip to, and at what prices, assuming anyone actually has an interest in building Liberty Bell sets, rather than just finding people to flip them to.
I don't think there are enough to get the telemarketers interested. If I'm right, that pulls significant organic demand right out of the pool. After that, who's left?
Who here actually wants them for their collections? I haven't seen a single person yet.
You, at $1,000? Or you, because you think you'll be able to flip it for at least $2,000?
The blind opinion of who ever serves me coffee at drive thru is worth more than what you present. It is said, but the truth is you are consistently wrong and your posts are only for social engagement rather than presenting something of value. Sad and depressing to think some people have only this form of social interaction.
Of course I want one. Your negative bias gets in the way of what is clearly laid out. Why do you think I said would pay the premium for one that was guaranteed?
Like I said, your posts are only for social engagement and you got this response once, but in the end your content is not worth reading and will continue to be blocked.
Fortunately people were wise enough to dismiss you 2024. People are smart enough to dismiss you again. You’re free to make yourself into a fool.
The bicentennial quarter pulled me into coins.
2026 dime is nice, however there has not been anything of significance that personally appealed to me this year.
The mint stepped up with these bells.
People can complain about the weights, mintage, price….sad thing is a lot of people get on this forum to complain. In the end they don’t have it in themselves to be happy.
I for one am glad to see the bells offered.
.> @Liquidated said:
Yeah. I think it could go either way. But I don't see any reason to dump on them. If you don't want one, don't buy one.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Oh, the horror of it. To be stuck with a silver bell from the US Mint celebrating 250 years of our nation.
The 1915 U.S. population was roughly 28.81% of today's total population, meaning the country is nearly 3.5 times larger than it was back then.
Translated this into coin demand.
645 mintage 1915
2238 mintage 2026
Of coarse the absolute differences matter. But on a relative scale these are selling fewer per capita than back then.
Boo hoo. My content is going to be blocked.
Who asked? Who cares?
No one asked you to engage or respond. You have no one but yourself to blame.
Bottom line, "relative scale per capita" is meaningless. All that matters is demand.
There is organic demand for hundreds of thousands of some things, and virtually no demand for others. No one knows where these are going to fall yet, because the Mint has never made anything like this before.
If this was an ASE variant with a mintage of 2026, it would be a slam dunk. But it isn't. So we just don't know.
But this is where I am coming from, and if you think my analysis of the market is flawed, we can agree to disagree.
I happen to think that, unlike 2021 Morgan and Peace Dollars, or proof ASEs, if they tried to sell 100K of these at a normal price of around $100, that they would not sell out. That's my baseline. If you think I'm wrong, because hundreds of thousands of people would want these as a 250th keepsake if the price was right, that's the disconnect.
But, if you accept my theory that they couldn't sell 100K at $100, that's why I think they wouldn't even sell 2026 at $750 if they said they would make up to 100K at that price is demand so warranted. If that's correct, then the only reason people are interested is because they are answering the Pavlovian bell and jumping because they are being told only 2026 will be made.
Which is fine. But, if 2026 people wouldn't want them at $750 if they were easy to get, why would that many people want them at significantly higher prices just because they are not easy to get? This is why series like the First Spouse series die, and at far lower pricing.
That's the $64,000 Question here. Casual observers who might have wanted one as a 250th keepsake will be turned off by the price, $750 or higher. As I said before, not enough will be available to be worth mass marketers' time.
That leaves flippers, since serious coin collectors won't even view these as coins. I just can't wrap my head around who flippers will be flipping to. I guess we'll see.
If dealers like Pinehurst publish buy offers before release, I'm wrong. Otherwise, buyer beware here, if the game is greater fool rather than adding half ounce silver Liberty Bell replicas at $750 to your collection.
No. To be stuck with a half ounce of silver at $750.
You could get yourself a beautiful replica bell, that rings and everything, for $8.99 plus shipping, if a Liberty Bell "to celebrate 250 years of our nation" is what you want. Direct from Philadelphia. Just like the Mint.
"From the US Mint" actually means next to nothing nowadays, given all the crap they have been pushing out lately. This is just the latest cynical example.
https://pageneralstore.com/products/replica-liberty-bell-med?variant=49058746335525
Yes, it's from Stack's. Got it while at the So-Called Dollar Fellowship conference so it was memorable and well timed!
I think most people on this forum have seen you be confidently wrong about enough to not really care or put much stock into your predictions. You talk just to hear your own voice.
So, you would recommend coin collectors buy the cheaper Chinese knockoff rather than the genuine US Mint product?
I'm not a huge fan of this particular issue, but I hardly think a $9 bell is a coin substitute.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
six grand for one ounce
Maybe. Thanks for sharing. I really appreciate it, and will be sure to take it into consideration when deciding whether or not to post in the future. 🤣🤣🤣
Sweet! The modern Mint must be doing something right!
No. I would recommend that coin collectors who want a replica Liberty Bell "celebrating 250 years of our nation" buy a cast metal one that rings for $8.99.
Coin collectors who want a flat half ounce silver one manufactured by the US Mint in extremely limited quantities should take out a 401k loan and spend whatever a predator on eBay demands in order to add one to their collection, before the opportunity is lost forever. 😀
You're right, the $9 bell is not a "coin substitute." Neither is the half ounce silver tchotchke being peddled by the Mint.
Neither are coins. One actually looks like the real thing, and rings. For $8.99. The other costs $750+ and does nothing.
Nice, but that is not this. Anyone confusing the two is going to deserve exactly what they get.
such a pleasant thread
The Mint sold that one for $104, so I'm not sure how the fact that someone bought it in a slab 2 years later for $6,000 has anything to do with the Mint, but okay.
Get back to me after they sell 6,078 Liberty Bells for a combined $40 million, and we can all congratulate the Mint on the fine job it is doing separating suckers from their money.
We can only imagine you would be great with balloon animals and perhaps a more appropriate field you should pursue.
Your persistent illustration of ignorance absolutely lays upon yourself to blame.
Almost comical aside from the idea that someone not knowing better would give your misguided views any weight.
Guess my content hasn't been blocked yet, huh? 🤣🤣🤣
What are you waiting for?????
He's busy trying to find a ringing bell for less than $8.99
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
No. He's busy trying to insult me while hanging onto my every word.
I am actually starting to feel sorry for you...
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
No need. I'm fine, and don't need anyone reading my posts, ignoring my posts, liking me, disliking me, feeling sorry for me, whatever.
I post for myself, and for anyone who finds value in anything I have to say. Everyone else can read, ignore, block, get irritated, whatever. Doesn't impact me one way or the other.
They are making coins that collectors want!
And offering them at affordable prices at time of issue for this one.
True. TBD whether or not that will apply to this series, at these prices.
100%
This will be deja vu all over again for NJ. $750 is not moon money for a 2026 mintage.
I'm gonna put my name in the hat , I wish everyone the best !
TBD. Seems like a lot for a half ounce silver bell to me. No matter who made it, or how many they made.
He's already changing his tune & backtracking. You can see it a mile away.
However, it's soo refreshing to see a single sentence vs a 6 paragraph monologue that repeats itself over & over & over again for the entire thread! SMH.
This is one of those issues where I think any responsible assessment has to leave options open. It's a Mint first. It's a relatively low mintage, but not incredibly so, for a silver medal. It is a medal not a coin. The price is quite high. It's easy to see it as a 5 minute sell out or a total flop... and everything in between.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Wrong.
Most NCLT isn't difficult to buy for much of the far more affluent collector base of today. No one had to be affluent to buy most of the NCLT profiled in his books. It's that the coins he profiled and that you repeatedly financially promote aren't the collectibles either of you imply or claim.
That's where both of you go wrong.
He wasn't writing about inflated issue prices, and I'm not only writing of the $750 price. The entire point of his books was to identify candidates for future appreciation. Why else do you think he bothered to write it?
Do the math for yourself. Using the last Heritage sales, applying the Pan-Pac $50 increase since 1915 would make this silver medal issued @$750 worth $24K or $36K in today's money at some future date.
Seriously, you believe this is credible? If this wasn't your point, then why did you use the Pan-Pac $50 as an example? There is no similarity between these two, at all.
Maybe Jordan's premises in both books I read reflect financially motivated buyers who only buy NCLT, but it doesn't reflect how hobbyist collectors think. ASEs aren't Morgan dollars, the $50 platinum isn't comparable to the 1936 proof WLH, and the fractional gold buffalos doesn't compare to Indian Head proof QE.
He made all three comparisons, and numerous other inaccurate analogies.
No one who actually understands the coin market believes comparisons like this are accurate, which is the only reason anyone reading these two books would believe it either.
Population doesn't have the correlation you're implying. Participation rate doesn't change equally with the population, especially when the majority of the increase demographically is from groups who don't come from collecting cultures and have no reason to want any US coin at all.
I'm not sure your demographics are accurate. Yes, recent immigration is from cultures that may not collect. But you're ignoring the broader wealth in the population than 1915 as well as the increase in collecting culture within the domestic population. Even if that has decreased in recent years, it exploded in the post war era.
Not that I think that the Pan Pac is remotely a good comparison, in part because of that increased collecting base.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Just based on the sentiment here, it looks like the silver will sell out quickly. I'm not "backtracking" on anything.
I still think it's extremely overpriced crap, and have been consistently saying people only want it because they think they will be able to flip it for more. Not because any reasonable collector feels that their coin collection will not be complete without a $750+ half ounce silver ingot shaped in the form of the Liberty Bell.
I have also consistently said, not that I will "backtrack," but affirmatively admit I was wrong, if a robust secondary market develops for these things at prices significantly above $750. My point is that there needs to be organic demand for these at prices well above $750 in order for that to happen, and that I just don't think that demand will exist.
Purchases based on nothing other than the greater fool theory always ends in pain and disappointment. And I haven't heard a single person here say anything positive about this, other than the low mintage.
People promoting this are ignoring low mintages of plenty of other items sold at far more reasonable prices, thinking there will be instant demand for anything related to the semisesquicentennial. We'll see.
To date, the Mint has sold exactly 2,999 2024-W AGEs. Containing a full ounce of pure gold. Most of which at prices significantly below what people think the silver bells will be worth. Both sub 3K mintages. Both produced by the Mint.
Not saying a silver bell is an AGE. Just saying everything does not have robust demand, just because it is made in very low numbers. And, absent very robust demand, it's puzzling why anyone would find these interesting at the price the Mint is seeking, regardless of the mintage. I personally find each of the BOM silver medals FAR more interesting than these. The fact that they are being sold at a fraction of the price is the least of the reasons why.
The fact that you are correct insofar as it's a Mint first, so no one knows, is the whole point. People see 2,026, and their minds immediately race to FH silver privy medals, and they see a home run. I see a bunch of Pavlovian dogs responding to a 2,026 bell.
So we'll see. Either a lucky few will grab one at $750 and flip it for $3-5K, or 2,026 people will be slamming eBay 5 minutes after they slam the Mint website, and they will either be stuck with $1,500 an ounce silver they never really wanted, or will dump it for whatever they can get.
Or, but only if the stars perfectly align, the Mint will get slammed with 2,026 returns, and they will learn never to try anything like this ever again. Because, like many recent things with the Mint, this it totally unnecessary.
No one forced them to do this at all. Things like this should be made in reasonable quantities, at reasonable prices.
Modern Mint issues really should not be bespoke product only available to a select few. Maybe a 10 ounce gold whatever, if they want to test the market for something like that, but not a half ounce silver Liberty Bell commemorating the semisesquicentennial.
I’ll bet that it’s pushed as a “ great commemorative “ on whatnot.
Very interesting discussion!
Speaking only for myself....
I'm frequently one to buy expensive modern issues if I like them and think that they'll hold value (thought I don't buy to sell).
I know it's somewhat stupid, but if the silver were a coin I'd really consider it and take a gamble. It has a lot of unique things going for it. With that said, "coin" is loose here for the reasons that others have stated. Foreign mints make stuff like this all the time. Some foreign gold issues are in the 50 mintage range (no idea how they make that worth it production wise).
However, being that it's a medal, it's just not for me.
I'd just never pay what they're asking for either of the gold.
For those who go after these I wish you the best of luck. I hope that you like them and that they appreciate if that is part of your calculus.
It will be very interesting to see how this plays out.
I would think that the silver being a medal and not a coin will really temper demand. I have no idea if I'm right, of course.
You can keep claiming all this but we made a lot of money back when his books were published and many people here have later as well whether they have read his book or not. The underlying fundamentals of the coin market are fairly accurately described. How did the US Mint arrive at the prices for these bells? It sounds like they read his book.
Now to be fair, his main book is outdated. If he updated it there would be changes made. Nobody is perfect and nobody should expect perfection in such a book. You seem to hate moderns and just have to run them down any chance you get.
The panpacs were not released into circulation, the ones that went unsold were melted down. These bells are artificially being released in a per capita mintage equivalent or slightly under the panpacs. Fact.
The future appreciation will involve inflation, and yes they can hit the number you mention.
Can you tell all of us here why the Flowing Hair silver Privy medals are selling for up to $10,000 using coin theory? No. But they are. His book makes the case using coin theory based on earlier examples.
Many of the low mintage classics you keep bringing up are viewed as type coins by the market, and as such they are priced that way. The market seems to separate coins a few different ways. You always confuse them together.
PS Many have made lots of money on moderns, they are not the NCLT disaster you claim.
The mint has 4,759 more 24EH in inventory, so the final mintage will be around 7,759. Way over the gold bells.
These are also viewed as type coins by the market, so the total supply combines all the mintages. If it was a one-time issue it would have been a one-day sellout at a 3k mintage.
I don't think Whatnot is what you think it is. It's mystery boxes and bargain hunting, mostly.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Here is a photo of all three:
Not if they don't sell them and they are eventually melted down.
My point is simply to note that low mintages are great, but are only one half of the equation. Your analysis is based on a Field of Dreams theory that anything the Mint makes will have significant demand. But we all know that is simply not the case.
And the only thing I am hearing now about Liberty Bells is low mintage. Not great design. Not accolades that the Mint is finally joining PAMP and making things they call coins and medals that bear no resemblance to traditional coins and medals.
Just "2,026 -- inevitable winner." And, that might actually be the case if they were sold at traditional pricing, creating a frenzied free for all at launch. You, and anyone else excited over this, are ignoring that $750 is going to kill a lot of organic demand right off the bat.
As a result, as I've said before, that is going to leave you to battle with other flippers for one. A lot of people who might have actually wanted one will be out. Out at noon on the 16th, and out when you go to flip them.
I also think mass marketers, who usually account for significant demand, will be out because there simply will not be enough of them for them to want to devote significant resources into hyping. I'll be wrong if Mike is offering the gold on HSN for $50K, in a special ANACS holder, and the silver for $10K. Otherwise, that's another market you won't be able to flip into.
So, who's left? I don't think anyone. And I admit, I'll be wrong if there are actually more than 2,000 people willing to pay whatever to add this to their collection.
Don't worry, the mint will go back to only issuing round coins next year. That's what makes these so special.
Interesting Coin Week article really says it all.
https://coinweek.com/u-s-mint-liberty-bell-coins-revive-a-111-year-numismatic-rarity-but-also-raises-collector-concerns/
Or, makes them so irrelevant. TBD.
No one actually needs them. Make them inaccessible, and they just might be ignored by the people you hope to sell to.
Read the article I posted above. It really does say it all, in a fair, unbiased way.
For what it's worth. Not the usual Reddit insanity. Just a point of view from the trenches, rather than the CU luxury suite.
https://www.reddit.com/r/coins/comments/1uemu8n/2026_freedom_ringing_liberty_bell_onehalf_ounce/
I'm struggling to know why the extreme pricing on the gold bells. Maybe they think they can retail them at a Tiffany or high end retailers besides the normal channels. It is an important milestone/anniversary.
Like I said, they are feeling confident about the brand.
Nothing to "struggle" over. They think they have something very desirable, are creating artificial scarcity, and are then taking the next natural progression in pricing by trying to capture as much of the ultimate market value as possible.
It's no different from $124.50 for a base metal annual coin set. Just on another scale. It actually makes perfect sense, assuming the demand is there.
I just happen to think it isn't. I also think it is obnoxious to go out of their way to create modern rarities, rather than giving average collectors the opportunity to collect. Alienate enough of them, and you enter a downward spiral that will ultimately result in the death of the hobby. As though the move away from cash in everyday commerce isn't already creating enough of a headwind.
But, if 2,026 one ounce gold Liberty Bells will be worth $20K on eBay a month after release, there is no reason for the Mint to leave $15K for flippers rather than capturing as much of that as possible for the taxpayers. Same with the other Liberty Bells.
I also just happen to think it's all overpriced crap, and the Mint should either not bother at all, or make these things in reasonable quantities and then sell them at reasonable prices.