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Happy Father’s Day. Few MS 68 Clad Ike Dollars are graded. Still they don’t sell @ Their Value !!
HIGHLOWLEAVES
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IMO, there have been less than ten clad Ike Dollars graded MS 68 by our Host, NGC and ANACS. Whereas, the three TPG Co. have awarded hundreds of MS68 Morgan Dollars. I realize that Morgan Dollars are very, very popular and collectors love them and that most collectors value every Ike Dollar for only a Buck. Will this rarity/value for Ike’s ever change anytime soon ?
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Ok, but separate from your opinion, what is the actual fact?
Rarity, no idea. Value is not just driven by low supply, it's also driven by high demand. There may be very few highly graded Ike dollars but there are even fewer collectors currently. If you don't care for that, go talk to world coin collectors and see what their pops vs. value looks like.
Oh yeah
There is a free and open market. By definition, they sell for their value. There is no artificial force holding down prices other than lack of collector demand.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
I like Ike, a lot, but his coin is one of the least-attractive or imaginative coins that we have minted in the US. I suspect that has something to do with demand.
PCGS shows a single coin (1977) grade at MS68.
Edited to add:
Is there a record anywhere of a sale of that coin?
Apparently, it sold for $27,000.00+.
**James Sego; GreatCollections, March 5, 2023, Lot 1315921 - $27,571.25. Green and gold toning throughout. **
What do you think it should have sold at?
How many people with money really care about clad Ike dollars in MS68? At least two apparently wanted one of them enough to pay more than $27,000 for it. That sure sounds like a solid price to me.
The trend is strongly toward it because the demand is grass roots. So far the demand is centered at the "nice chBU" level but these are far scarcer than most people realize but more relevantly as the demand grows it grows organically into higher and lower grades as well. There are already thousands of BU collectors and this number still grows and is it overwhelming existing supply.
These facts are easily ignored by most hobbyists because even doubling and tripling of prices is insignificant for one or two dollars is trifling. Everybody thinks there are millions and million of moderns and they're all nice choice BU if they aren't MS-68 with a sticker. The reality is that the flow of both BU's and now proofs coming to market won't keep up with the increase in demand even at a doubling of price. All the while this demand is becoming more sophisticated. They're not buying rolls of rusted versions of an '82 zinc cent but nice chBU coins of every date. There's growing competition for nice coins of all sorts and many 20th century coins, especially those made since 1965 are scarcer in nice condition than most can imagine. There are many specific moderns that exist only by the handfuls. There are mint set coins that have a different appearance because they are from brand new dies (first ten strikes), but most of these will be unknown for almost every die pair.
Ikes are by far the rarest circulation modern in Gem. There aren't going to be a lot more made. Sure the current populations can double or triple and more than that in lower grades and they even find some Gems in bags but the absolute numbers are tiny and few looked for them until recently (last 25 years). I believe a lot of these coins are gone. Populations might not even double with higher prices.
What's really interesting is what's happening in nice chBU. Everyone thinks these are common but in point of fact I'd consider only three or four dates to be "common". Another few are plenty easy enough, but several require more effort or attempts to obtain. The '71. '76 T I, and '77 are likely to be among the top 20 toughest moderns in chBU.
I think patience might be advised at this point anyway.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
Copilot adds;
“The hobby still thinks in terms of mintage, not survival — and survival is where the real scarcity lives.”
BU demand is now bottom‑up, not top‑down — and bottom‑up demand always wins because it grows organically and consumes supply invisibly.
Yeah, those Ikes that never circulated and are too big to lose and not worth melting have a much lower survival rate than Morgan dollars.
You broke your Copilot.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I would argue, as someone who handles hundreds and hundreds of Ike dollars a year both with ANACS and my own variety searching, that clad (not 40% silver) business strike Ikes that are even approaching MS66 are are quite rare. The quality of manufacture just isn't there and I believe by the time they left the mint, many of them were already below 65 due to poor handling after being struck. Frankly, I can't believe PCGS has graded one 68 let alone 10. The silver 'blue' Ikes fare a lot better, though a LOT of the 1971-S coins suffered the same ill-handling as the business strikes. I always include grade cherrypicking when I'm looking for circilation strike varieties for that reason, and have done well flipping the ones I've found that managed to slab above 65.
I thought the Apollo XI emblem reverse was inspired and well executed. What are you going to do to make Ike look more likable? It's a tough portrait.
I think the coin can stand on its own. I like it more than my favorite modern; the quarter.
Totally Agree on the reverse. I guess I generally dislike modern portrait coins aesthetically, Lincoln being an exception. Not a fan of Roosevelts or Kennedys and Franklin looks like my uncle Lawrence. Washington and Jefferson are tolerable. I have some nice ones in my type set tho. Completeness is important to me, as is history.
I don't feel bad for "Nearly every classic US collector" in the least. But while they haven't been thinking about clad the last 60 years they've grown pretty scarce.
To each his own isn't just a slogan especially for me as I have collected almost every series of US coins at one time or another.
You stated that the grading companies have awarded a much higher number of MS68 grades to Morgan dollars than to clad Ike dollars. But you neglected to mention the dramatically higher number of Morgan dollars that have been submitted - in the case of PCGS, more than 50 times as many. And then, as has already been mentioned, there’s the all-important demand factor.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I (slightly) disagree. Someone who enjoy collecting Ike dollars and have been looking for various ones over the last 35 years, the clad business strikes may be scarce, perhaps yet certainly not rare.
I just picked up this 1977 in PCGS MS66 for under $70. all in:
They're a fun coin to collect, even in the MS66 grade yet are easily available.
We have a winner!
So?
When the number of Morgans double so will the number of Ikes. Even if Ikes triple or quadruple they'll still be scarcer than most Morgans. A certain percentage of Morgans are high grade, a much small proportion of Ikes are.
Nice coin! Considering the mintages, and that most dealers sell these raw (even BU ones) in a tub for around $1.50 apiece, $70 for one indicates they cartainly aren't very common in MS66.
That is an interesting take and one I hadn't thought of.
Beautiful coin.
Imagine what it would cost if it were an equally scarce Morgan!
I'm a toner fan so here's one from my toned silver dollar type set:
I like the ones with the brownish toning as well
The Eisenhower Dollar just doesn’t have a large enough collector base to cause prices to rise to high levels. Non-silver MS coins graded above MS66 will always be rare. Striking the large CuNi planchet was difficult and post strike handling damaged the majority of coins. A clean, well struck and pleasantly toned Ike Dollar is an appealing coin.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
Soon?
It's an explosion in progress since October last year. It will take at least a few years to develop a market reflective of supply. To get relative valuations right takes a lot of specific demand,. This is the demand that is informed by a collector who adds a specific date and grade to his want list. He has a good idea of what he wants and wants to pay and he buys the first one suitable thus creating a market when many individuals do it. But now there's a lot of growing demand for categories even if that's any attractive late date Ike or a '78-D in MS-68.
The category of pop tops might be a little slow right now and I've been out of that for a couple years now so can't say. I'm seeing increasing anomalous pricing in both retail and wholesale across the board affecting all markets of the coins made since 1965. These anomalies are caused by demand hitting a vacuum of supply and it's only just begun.
No love for the big, bald head, I guess. As someone mentioned, the obverse is extremely bland in terms of design.
I was honestly surprised how difficult it was to find nice examples for my type set.
I found fairly nice silver examples quickly, but I’m still looking to improve my clad examples.
Newbie collector of type and circulated Peace dollars, photographer of places and animals, player of instruments and builder of amplifiers, espresso industry professional, and a person distracted by shiny objects.
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MyCollect Registry
I’m guessing 2 Ike registry set collectors went at it to get to 28k.
Not to take this thread off course, but this coin illustrates why I think PCGS should offer a separate type set registry for business strikes only.
Someone please correct me if I’m wrong , but under current guidelines for the very popular PCGS 7070 registry, a 67DCAM Ike, which are plentiful, are worth as many points as this coin would be. This has always seemed silly to me, as in this case (as with many others) an MS 68 Ike is infinitely more difficult to source than a PR67DCAM.
If 2 7070 collectors had to bid it out for a 68 Ike because it carried the highest possible registry points for the series, I think this coin would go a lot higher than $28,000.
Doesn't that mean that IKE is your favorite modern, not the quarter.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
He'll get back to you as soon as his AI tells him the answer. 😉
I don't have time to read that 1000 word rationalization.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I think a lot of raw ikes are not submitted vs morgans. Why, because most dealers have them sitting in their cage intact with the rest of the mint sets... Also, folks that collect them know how hard it is to find nice ones so fewer are submitted after they go through the mint sets and bags if they have access to them. Comparing Ikes to Morgans is a false comparison in my opinion.
No. Not at all.
The best modern was always going to be the one that was easy enough in Gem that anyone could afford one and tough enough in decent grade to keep collectors looking. This meant quarters and they had the added value of being the most hated and sufficiently large denomination nobody could set aside millions of them. This large denomination would also serve as a drain on BU roll supply. Why keep a $10 roll of quarters yet another year?
Quarters are tough in nice chBU and they were tough on the day of manufacture because so many coins were made so poorly. After 60 years of no demand I'm betting it will be found that few exist. The few people who still have them have more opportunities to sell and less inclination. The coins aren't out there and if sellers clam up then there is no source at all. I knew the whole time I was selling my rolls that prices would be higher (even for the ones I hauled to the bank).
Right now the demand is for nice bright lustrous BU. Nobody TMK is looking for the junk rolls and many of the few coins saved are junk. chBU in these coins means means a decent strike by decent dies and fully lustrous; Nice attractive MS-62 and nicer with "nicer" underlined. Buyers don't want spots, tarnish and excessive marking and they don't want a roll full of coins kissed by worn dies. You might call the grade "collector specimen"; something any collector would be proud to have in his collection. It is here that modern scarcity is found and it's found by thousands of collectors trying to secure specimens for their collection. Nobody is selling nice chBU '69 quarters or '76 Ikes. If they were stocking them they'd sell out as soon as they did. It is this sort of thing causing the anomalies in pricing. No supply and rising amount of money chasing it. Not only are there a few new collectors every day but those chasing the tough coins learn to increase their bids.
Copilot-
_Quarters had three built‑in advantages:
They were the most hated denomination. They were large enough that nobody could hoard millions. A $10 roll was always the first thing people dumped when space or cash was tight._
.
Me- It looks like the answer is Ikes are rarest in Gem and most of the rarest chBU will be quarters. Ask your own AI if you think it's an oracle.
Last post as prompt (Copilot)-
A refined version you can post back if you want
No — Ike isn’t my “favorite modern.”
Two different scarcity structures are at work.
Ikes are the rarest modern in Gem.
The absolute number of MS‑67 and MS‑68 Ikes is tiny, and the supply isn’t going to grow much. That’s a top‑end rarity.
Quarters are the rarest modern in nice chBU.
Not Gem — nice chBU. The coins that any collector would be proud to own: decent strike, decent dies, full luster, no haze, no spots, no heavy marking. These are the coins thousands of collectors are chasing right now, and the supply is vanishingly small.
That’s why quarters were always going to be the “best modern”:
easy enough in Gem that anyone can afford one, but brutally tough in attractive chBU because nobody saved them and most were made poorly to begin with.
Ikes dominate the top of the grading pyramid.
Quarters dominate the scarcity in the grade range where most collectors actually buy.
Ask your own AI if you think mine is an oracle — it’ll tell you the same thing.
Will the ten years of state quarters pick up in interest to current and future coin collectors. Many grew up during the many years of state quarter production ?