@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
I agree , I like the design .... again I just can't see the price ?
Right. That's the entire problem. People like you who would be attracted to the product are not in a position to buy it, and those with the wherewithal to drop $20K on a gimmicky trinket will have no interest. Which is why it will land with a tremendous thud.
Instead of getting too cute by half, they should have just issued it with the usual mintages at the usual, already excessive pricing. I just don't think there is going to be a market for these.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
So what would make you happy? A full ounce of silver?
That's really the deal breaker for you at $750? The missing thickness and $32 worth of silver?
The gold is already plenty big at one ounce, and the half ounce is almost the exact same size, just half as thick and half as expensive. And the silver is also the same size.
So again, is that really the problem, or just a nit to pick because you can't bring yourself to agree with those of us who just think it's crazy in general, not because it is a coin sized coin? It would be fine if it was a Mr. T sized trinket, but still priced at the same premium to spot?
No, it's not a 99 cent cheapie. It's just an artificial rarity that isn't really all that rare in relation to its pricing for what it is. Not one of 230 special FH gold coins, but one of 2026 trinkets, times 3, like a PAMP Hot Wheels or Barbie.
Those sell for around $200 each with similar mintages. True they are not official Mint products, but they are no more gimmicky. These are not coins. They are monetized tchotchkes. Attractive to some, but generally not to serious people with serious money to spend on coins.
The price is based on the artificial rarity. Not on the size, or the precious metal content. Clearly, given the wild premiums. TBD.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
I agree , I like the design .... again I just can't see the price ?
Right. That's the entire problem. People like you who would be attracted to the product are not in a position to buy it, and those with the wherewithal to drop $20K on a gimmicky trinket will have no interest. Which is why it will land with a tremendous thud.
Instead of getting too cute by half, they should have just issued it with the usual mintages at the usual, already excessive pricing. I just don't think there is going to be a market for these.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
I agree , I like the design .... again I just can't see the price ?
Right. That's the entire problem. People like you who would be attracted to the product are not in a position to buy it, and those with the wherewithal to drop $20K on a gimmicky trinket will have no interest. Which is why it will land with a tremendous thud.
Instead of getting too cute by half, they should have just issued it with the usual mintages at the usual, already excessive pricing. I just don't think there is going to be a market for these.
Yes , and is this a stepping stone for an increase for the ASE ? Who is to say the mint will not increase the mintage to whatever they feel like .... like in previous sales ?
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
I agree , I like the design .... again I just can't see the price ?
Right. That's the entire problem. People like you who would be attracted to the product are not in a position to buy it, and those with the wherewithal to drop $20K on a gimmicky trinket will have no interest. Which is why it will land with a tremendous thud.
Instead of getting too cute by half, they should have just issued it with the usual mintages at the usual, already excessive pricing. I just don't think there is going to be a market for these.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
I agree , I like the design .... again I just can't see the price ?
Right. That's the entire problem. People like you who would be attracted to the product are not in a position to buy it, and those with the wherewithal to drop $20K on a gimmicky trinket will have no interest. Which is why it will land with a tremendous thud.
Instead of getting too cute by half, they should have just issued it with the usual mintages at the usual, already excessive pricing. I just don't think there is going to be a market for these.
Yes , and is this a stepping stone for an increase for the ASE ? Who is to say the mint will not increase the mintage to whatever they feel like .... like in previous sales ?
Ehh. They have lately been doing whatever they want anyway. I don't see this as a stepping stone to anything. I think it's just a test to see what the market will tolerate.
@NJCoin said:
The gold is already plenty big at one ounce, and the half ounce is almost the exact same size, just half as thick and half as expensive. And the silver is also the same size.
No its not plenty big, at least you could read the specs on these. The are all the same length and width, only the thickness changes.
The 1 ounce gold and 1/2 ounce silver are nearly the same thickness. The 1/2 gold is half the thickness.
Wait until everyone gets them, they will not be saying "Wow are these big".
@NJCoin said:
The gold is already plenty big at one ounce, and the half ounce is almost the exact same size, just half as thick and half as expensive. And the silver is also the same size.
No its not plenty big, at least you could read the specs on these. The are all the same length and width, only the thickness changes.
The 1 ounce gold and 1/2 ounce silver are nearly the same thickness. The 1/2 gold is half the thickness.
Wait until everyone gets them, they will not be saying "Wow are these big".
Correct. They won't be saying anything about the size, because there is nothing extraordinary about the size. It is typical.
What's extraordinary is the price and the mintage. But they are still misaligned for what the product is.
Making them bigger, and even more expensive, wouldn't fix that. The Mint apparently thinks it is entitled to the premium due to the mintage. But that presupposes demand that just won't be there for something like this at this premium. Increasing the size while keeping the premium the same wouldn't change that.
This is not a very low mintage proof ASE. It's not a very low mintage FH gold dollar.
It's a freaking Liberty Bell, priced like it's a V75 AGE. Different market. I just don't see the Barbie and Hot Wheels crowd jumping at this at these prices. And not because of the size.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
I agree , I like the design .... again I just can't see the price ?
Right. That's the entire problem. People like you who would be attracted to the product are not in a position to buy it, and those with the wherewithal to drop $20K on a gimmicky trinket will have no interest. Which is why it will land with a tremendous thud.
Instead of getting too cute by half, they should have just issued it with the usual mintages at the usual, already excessive pricing. I just don't think there is going to be a market for these.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
I agree , I like the design .... again I just can't see the price ?
Right. That's the entire problem. People like you who would be attracted to the product are not in a position to buy it, and those with the wherewithal to drop $20K on a gimmicky trinket will have no interest. Which is why it will land with a tremendous thud.
Instead of getting too cute by half, they should have just issued it with the usual mintages at the usual, already excessive pricing. I just don't think there is going to be a market for these.
Yes , and is this a stepping stone for an increase for the ASE ? Who is to say the mint will not increase the mintage to whatever they feel like .... like in previous sales ?
Ehh. They have lately been doing whatever they want anyway. I don't see this as a stepping stone to anything. I think it's just a test to see what the market will tolerate.
@NJCoin said:
It's a freaking Liberty Bell, priced like it's a V75 AGE. Different market. I just don't see the Barbie and Hot Wheels crowd jumping at this at these prices. And not because of the size.
They priced them bigger, so the Liberty Bells should have been bigger. At these prices I would expect twice as much silver and gold. Yes it would make all the difference to many. The ones who will be buying these regardless are not talking as they don't want the competition.
The silver goes dark first, the 1/2 ounce second, the one ounce gold last.
@NJCoin said:
It's a freaking Liberty Bell, priced like it's a V75 AGE. Different market. I just don't see the Barbie and Hot Wheels crowd jumping at this at these prices. And not because of the size.
They priced them bigger, so the Liberty Bells should have been bigger. At these prices I would expect twice as much silver and gold. Yes it would make all the difference to many. The ones who will be buying these regardless are not talking as they don't want the competition.
The silver goes dark first, the 1/2 ounce second, the one ounce gold last.
I think your right my friend..... It just won't be me .
@NJCoin said:
It's a freaking Liberty Bell, priced like it's a V75 AGE. Different market. I just don't see the Barbie and Hot Wheels crowd jumping at this at these prices. And not because of the size.
They priced them bigger, so the Liberty Bells should have been bigger. At these prices I would expect twice as much silver and gold. Yes it would make all the difference to many. The ones who will be buying these regardless are not talking as they don't want the competition.
The silver goes dark first, the 1/2 ounce second, the one ounce gold last.
Sorry, but, once again, we are going to have to agree to disagree on this. They priced them rarer, not bigger.
And people aren't going to buy them. Not because they aren't the size of a Mr. T medallion, but because people with $20K to drop on a coin aren't interested in crap like this.
This belongs on HSN, next to the Hot Wheels, Barbies, Stratocasters and Dan Carr overstrikes, because that's the market for something like this. But not at these prices or in this low quantity. That's why this is going to be a huge miss.
They think the gold is a V75 AGE. But it isn't.
And, even if it was, they are pricing it in such a way as to squeeze all the juice out of it to keep for themselves, and that's no way to let a market develop. That's a way to kill it before it has a chance to take off.
If they want to make a small handful of something and let Stack's conduct price discovery, that's one thing. But you can't do that with 2K of anything, times 3, so this is what they chose to do.
IMHO, stupid. Simply no reason to make so few, and then price them so high. You'll see, there will not be a market for these, just like there isn't for the superhero coins and medals.
@NJCoin said:
IMHO, stupid. Simply no reason to make so few, and then price them so high. You'll see, there will not be a market for these, just like there isn't for the superhero coins and medals.
The market for these is the 250th anniversary buyers, and that is huge. They have already sold out 300,000 mintage products for them.
This is only 2026 mintage (or 6078 total), which is a tiny fraction.
The 1 ounce gold is the hard one, that may last hours. The other two I doubt it.
It is a unique product only done once. The mint is acting like they had to reinvent the wheel to make these.
@NJCoin said:
IMHO, stupid. Simply no reason to make so few, and then price them so high. You'll see, there will not be a market for these, just like there isn't for the superhero coins and medals.
The market for these is the 250th anniversary buyers, and that is huge. They have already sold out 300,000 mintage products for them.
This is only 2026 mintage (or 6078 total), which is a tiny fraction.
The 1 ounce gold is the hard one, that may last hours. The other two I doubt it.
It is a unique product only done once. The mint is acting like they had to reinvent the wheel to make these.
If I hit a good lottery ticket I will purchase the silver metal , not that I can't afford it now.....
other than that I will buy a bag of popcorn & see what transpires on July 16th
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
I agree , I like the design .... again I just can't see the price ?
Right. That's the entire problem. People like you who would be attracted to the product are not in a position to buy it, and those with the wherewithal to drop $20K on a gimmicky trinket will have no interest. Which is why it will land with a tremendous thud.
Instead of getting too cute by half, they should have just issued it with the usual mintages at the usual, already excessive pricing. I just don't think there is going to be a market for these.
They also could have made a clad version in a larger issuance for $100 or less. That might have had more appeal.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
So what would make you happy? A full ounce of silver?
That's really the deal breaker for you at $750? The missing thickness and $32 worth of silver?
The gold is already plenty big at one ounce, and the half ounce is almost the exact same size, just half as thick and half as expensive. And the silver is also the same size.
So again, is that really the problem, or just a nit to pick because you can't bring yourself to agree with those of us who just think it's crazy in general, not because it is a coin sized coin? It would be fine if it was a Mr. T sized trinket, but still priced at the same premium to spot?
No, it's not a 99 cent cheapie. It's just an artificial rarity that isn't really all that rare in relation to its pricing for what it is. Not one of 230 special FH gold coins, but one of 2026 trinkets, times 3, like a PAMP Hot Wheels or Barbie.
Those sell for around $200 each with similar mintages. True they are not official Mint products, but they are no more gimmicky. These are not coins. They are monetized tchotchkes. Attractive to some, but generally not to serious people with serious money to spend on coins.
The price is based on the artificial rarity. Not on the size, or the precious metal content. Clearly, given the wild premiums. TBD.
I agree!
Although I'm still toying with buying the silver - full disclosure.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@NJCoin said:
It's a freaking Liberty Bell, priced like it's a V75 AGE. Different market. I just don't see the Barbie and Hot Wheels crowd jumping at this at these prices. And not because of the size.
They priced them bigger, so the Liberty Bells should have been bigger. At these prices I would expect twice as much silver and gold. Yes it would make all the difference to many. The ones who will be buying these regardless are not talking as they don't want the competition.
The silver goes dark first, the 1/2 ounce second, the one ounce gold last.
Yes, if they put $20,000 in gold in them, I would be in for $19,000
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@NJCoin said:
It's a freaking Liberty Bell, priced like it's a V75 AGE. Different market. I just don't see the Barbie and Hot Wheels crowd jumping at this at these prices. And not because of the size.
They priced them bigger, so the Liberty Bells should have been bigger. At these prices I would expect twice as much silver and gold. Yes it would make all the difference to many. The ones who will be buying these regardless are not talking as they don't want the competition.
The silver goes dark first, the 1/2 ounce second, the one ounce gold last.
Sorry, but, once again, we are going to have to agree to disagree on this. They priced them rarer, not bigger.
And people aren't going to buy them. Not because they aren't the size of a Mr. T medallion, but because people with $20K to drop on a coin aren't interested in crap like this.
This belongs on HSN, next to the Hot Wheels, Barbies, Stratocasters and Dan Carr overstrikes, because that's the market for something like this. But not at these prices or in this low quantity. That's why this is going to be a huge miss.
They think the gold is a V75 AGE. But it isn't.
And, even if it was, they are pricing it in such a way as to squeeze all the juice out of it to keep for themselves, and that's no way to let a market develop. That's a way to kill it before it has a chance to take off.
If they want to make a small handful of something and let Stack's conduct price discovery, that's one thing. But you can't do that with 2K of anything, times 3, so this is what they chose to do.
IMHO, stupid. Simply no reason to make so few, and then price them so high. You'll see, there will not be a market for these, just like there isn't for the superhero coins and medals.
i'm not sure I would be so sure that "people with $20K to drop on a coin aren't interested in crap like this."
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@NJCoin said:
IMHO, stupid. Simply no reason to make so few, and then price them so high. You'll see, there will not be a market for these, just like there isn't for the superhero coins and medals.
The market for these is the 250th anniversary buyers, and that is huge. They have already sold out 300,000 mintage products for them.
This is only 2026 mintage (or 6078 total), which is a tiny fraction.
The 1 ounce gold is the hard one, that may last hours. The other two I doubt it.
It is a unique product only done once. The mint is acting like they had to reinvent the wheel to make these.
Is it huge? The 250th anniversary products are not all super hot in the secondary market.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
So what would make you happy? A full ounce of silver?
That's really the deal breaker for you at $750? The missing thickness and $32 worth of silver?
The gold is already plenty big at one ounce, and the half ounce is almost the exact same size, just half as thick and half as expensive. And the silver is also the same size.
So again, is that really the problem, or just a nit to pick because you can't bring yourself to agree with those of us who just think it's crazy in general, not because it is a coin sized coin? It would be fine if it was a Mr. T sized trinket, but still priced at the same premium to spot?
No, it's not a 99 cent cheapie. It's just an artificial rarity that isn't really all that rare in relation to its pricing for what it is. Not one of 230 special FH gold coins, but one of 2026 trinkets, times 3, like a PAMP Hot Wheels or Barbie.
Those sell for around $200 each with similar mintages. True they are not official Mint products, but they are no more gimmicky. These are not coins. They are monetized tchotchkes. Attractive to some, but generally not to serious people with serious money to spend on coins.
The price is based on the artificial rarity. Not on the size, or the precious metal content. Clearly, given the wild premiums. TBD.
I agree!
Although I'm still toying with buying the silver - full disclosure.
The silver one of course sells out first. I saw one completed EBay pre sale for that one at $1300. While the $19,000 gold OZ will take some time, I think it’s going to sellout as well. The Mint will learn from this sale, and will no doubt try something similar in the future.
(Edited after seeing one of the $1300 sales was ended and not sold. So far only one sold)
As an interesting comparison, consider the three lowest-priced examples of the 2009 UHR gold one ounce Double Eagle in PCGS MS70PL sold on ebay in the last 60 days. June 18th: sold at less than $5900 (BIN was $5900, but a "Best Offer" was accepted); May 2nd: sold at $5500; April 29th: sold at less than $6150 (BIN was $6150, but a "Best Offer" was accepted). Even using the original listed prices for the two that went cheaper with best offers, the total for all three was $17550. So the price of the Liberty Bell trinket at $19600 compares to three 2009 UHR double eagles in PCGS MS70PL with a little over $2000 left in your pocket. Make of it what you will, go with what pleases you.
@ms71 said:
As an interesting comparison, consider the three lowest-priced examples of the 2009 UHR gold one ounce Double Eagle in PCGS MS70PL sold on ebay in the last 60 days. June 18th: sold at less than $5900 (BIN was $5900, but a "Best Offer" was accepted); May 2nd: sold at $5500; April 29th: sold at less than $6150 (BIN was $6150, but a "Best Offer" was accepted). Even using the original listed prices for the two that went cheaper with best offers, the total for all three was $17550. So the price of the Liberty Bell trinket at $19600 compares to three 2009 UHR double eagles in PCGS MS70PL with a little over $2000 left in your pocket. Make of it what you will, go with what pleases you.
It's all about demand. The 2009 UHR is not old news, its ancient news.
I'm not saying to go buy the Liberty Bell in Gold, thats a tough pill to swallow. If you HAD to have one in GOLD, I would pass on the 1/2 oz. It's like buying a Tudor when you want a Rolex.
However, i'm thinking the 1/2 oz Silver is the one to target (IF ANY). Thats probably the best (dare I say) flip opportunity; or, if you just want a Liberty Bell medal by the USM at the lowest entry point.
What's extraordinary is the price and the mintage. But they are still misaligned for what the product is.
I am aware of two coins (and only two) ever made where there are 2026 or more survivors with each worth this price (or more), and that's assuming I'm right about the price since I do not care enough to confirm it. This would be the 1907 HR Saint and V75 AGE (which is close enough and I also consider exorbitantly overpriced). That's two out of 250,000+ for anyone who is counting.
The price is based on the artificial rarity. Not on the size, or the precious metal content. Clearly, given the wild premiums. TBD.
Except that it's not even actually rare, because it's not a circulating coin, and not even viewed as a coin at all by most collectors who can afford it (or not). That's what I read on these NCLT threads all the time, comparing NCLT mintages to those of circulating coinage. It's an invalid comparison, because the coin market doesn't view the two equivalently virtually ever. Where it does view it at least somewhat equivalently, it's evident in the price, like the 95-W ASE and V75 AGE.
I've never read anyone claim proof Barber halves or later date Liberty Seated halves (which have much lower mintages and even fewer survivors) are rare (though someone probably did), because it's not a circulating coin either. Virtually none of these coin prices reflect the relative scarcity (or anywhere near it) vs. circulating coinage, because of the difference in how it's collected.
Rarity alone doesn't make anyone want it, other a financially motivated buyer who predominantly or entirely wants to sell it for more and who usually doesn't even actually understand the coin market, which is my description of those posting in these threads who exaggerate the importance of these NCLT mintages.
And people aren't going to buy them. Not because they aren't the size of a Mr. T medallion, but because people with $20K to drop on a coin aren't interested in crap like this.
To those who are actually interested in collecting, as opposed to "investing", diversifying their portfolio, or liquidity, (practically) every coin ever made in this price range is more interesting as a collectible. If anyone wants it, with 2026, these "coins" will be available any day of the week.
I believe with supportive pre sale marketing these will sell out pretty quickly, surprisingly quickly, as people will join the 250 bandwagon. I suffer severe fomo, and while I still haven't 100% ruled out going for a silver, I find the appearance cheap and gimmicky. If better designed I would definitely want/need (lol) one. Is there a chance they are floating this pricing to judge reaction and it may come down?, probably not, as I say, I do believe these will sell out in under an hour, except possibly the 1 oz gold.
@NJCoin said:
IMHO, stupid. Simply no reason to make so few, and then price them so high. You'll see, there will not be a market for these, just like there isn't for the superhero coins and medals.
The market for these is the 250th anniversary buyers, and that is huge. They have already sold out 300,000 mintage products for them.
This is only 2026 mintage (or 6078 total), which is a tiny fraction.
The 1 ounce gold is the hard one, that may last hours. The other two I doubt it.
It is a unique product only done once. The mint is acting like they had to reinvent the wheel to make these.
We'll see, won't we? My point is that the 250th anniversary buyers for these are the same as for the Dan Carr overstrikes. And that's a very different market from the market for the FH gold privies. But they are pricing these for the latter, not the former. And making them in quantities that, albeit low, are far too high to support the prices they seek.
We'll see in a month, and I am not shy about putting my thoughts out here. If they sell out in an hour, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong. Just as I know you'll be the first to say "I told you so." I only hope I get an apology if you turn out to the be one who is wrong.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
I agree , I like the design .... again I just can't see the price ?
Right. That's the entire problem. People like you who would be attracted to the product are not in a position to buy it, and those with the wherewithal to drop $20K on a gimmicky trinket will have no interest. Which is why it will land with a tremendous thud.
Instead of getting too cute by half, they should have just issued it with the usual mintages at the usual, already excessive pricing. I just don't think there is going to be a market for these.
They also could have made a clad version in a larger issuance for $100 or less. That might have had more appeal.
They also could have the silver version in a larger issuance for a far lower price. Precious metal value is not driving the pricing here, and you know it.
They are testing the waters to see if the market will tolerate very low, but not Stack's auction low, mintages at extremely elevated prices. And doing it with a one-off unique thing like this rather than messing with a variant of a popular series, like a privy on an AGE, because that would like make peoples' heads explode.
If this sells out, then yeah, look for infinite takes on it in the future. Otherwise, the market will have spoken, these will sit on the website unsold for years, and we won't see things like this anymore. After the DC debacle, I am reasonably confident we won't be seeing any more IP licensing deals going forward.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
So what would make you happy? A full ounce of silver?
That's really the deal breaker for you at $750? The missing thickness and $32 worth of silver?
The gold is already plenty big at one ounce, and the half ounce is almost the exact same size, just half as thick and half as expensive. And the silver is also the same size.
So again, is that really the problem, or just a nit to pick because you can't bring yourself to agree with those of us who just think it's crazy in general, not because it is a coin sized coin? It would be fine if it was a Mr. T sized trinket, but still priced at the same premium to spot?
No, it's not a 99 cent cheapie. It's just an artificial rarity that isn't really all that rare in relation to its pricing for what it is. Not one of 230 special FH gold coins, but one of 2026 trinkets, times 3, like a PAMP Hot Wheels or Barbie.
Those sell for around $200 each with similar mintages. True they are not official Mint products, but they are no more gimmicky. These are not coins. They are monetized tchotchkes. Attractive to some, but generally not to serious people with serious money to spend on coins.
The price is based on the artificial rarity. Not on the size, or the precious metal content. Clearly, given the wild premiums. TBD.
I agree!
Although I'm still toying with buying the silver - full disclosure.
I have confidence you'll come to your senses when you don't see a buzz materialize pre-release.
@NJCoin said:
It's a freaking Liberty Bell, priced like it's a V75 AGE. Different market. I just don't see the Barbie and Hot Wheels crowd jumping at this at these prices. And not because of the size.
They priced them bigger, so the Liberty Bells should have been bigger. At these prices I would expect twice as much silver and gold. Yes it would make all the difference to many. The ones who will be buying these regardless are not talking as they don't want the competition.
The silver goes dark first, the 1/2 ounce second, the one ounce gold last.
Sorry, but, once again, we are going to have to agree to disagree on this. They priced them rarer, not bigger.
And people aren't going to buy them. Not because they aren't the size of a Mr. T medallion, but because people with $20K to drop on a coin aren't interested in crap like this.
This belongs on HSN, next to the Hot Wheels, Barbies, Stratocasters and Dan Carr overstrikes, because that's the market for something like this. But not at these prices or in this low quantity. That's why this is going to be a huge miss.
They think the gold is a V75 AGE. But it isn't.
And, even if it was, they are pricing it in such a way as to squeeze all the juice out of it to keep for themselves, and that's no way to let a market develop. That's a way to kill it before it has a chance to take off.
If they want to make a small handful of something and let Stack's conduct price discovery, that's one thing. But you can't do that with 2K of anything, times 3, so this is what they chose to do.
IMHO, stupid. Simply no reason to make so few, and then price them so high. You'll see, there will not be a market for these, just like there isn't for the superhero coins and medals.
i'm not sure I would be so sure that "people with $20K to drop on a coin aren't interested in crap like this."
Yes. That is the $64K Question. I was right about what would happen with the FH privies, so I'm doubling down on these.
They are interesting, but they are really not "coins," so I just don't see the people with the kind of money necessary to actually want to own these, rather than just dealing them, buying into the artificial rarity of what is nothing more than a curiosity, and paying the asking price, just because it is manufactured by the US Mint.
Lots of similar items, manufactured in much lower quantities, and containing much more intrinsic value, sell for far lower prices. These are not coins in the traditional sense, so I just don't think people are going to care that they were made by the Mint, or will be willing to assign the values to them that are routinely assigned to genuinely rare US coins.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
So what would make you happy? A full ounce of silver?
That's really the deal breaker for you at $750? The missing thickness and $32 worth of silver?
The gold is already plenty big at one ounce, and the half ounce is almost the exact same size, just half as thick and half as expensive. And the silver is also the same size.
So again, is that really the problem, or just a nit to pick because you can't bring yourself to agree with those of us who just think it's crazy in general, not because it is a coin sized coin? It would be fine if it was a Mr. T sized trinket, but still priced at the same premium to spot?
No, it's not a 99 cent cheapie. It's just an artificial rarity that isn't really all that rare in relation to its pricing for what it is. Not one of 230 special FH gold coins, but one of 2026 trinkets, times 3, like a PAMP Hot Wheels or Barbie.
Those sell for around $200 each with similar mintages. True they are not official Mint products, but they are no more gimmicky. These are not coins. They are monetized tchotchkes. Attractive to some, but generally not to serious people with serious money to spend on coins.
The price is based on the artificial rarity. Not on the size, or the precious metal content. Clearly, given the wild premiums. TBD.
I agree!
Although I'm still toying with buying the silver - full disclosure.
I have confidence you'll come to your senses when you don't see a buzz materialize pre-release.e
NJ, I’m really just torn here. I can see you being 100% right, but I can also see it going the other way as part of a “greater fools” test. If I was to take a stab at any of these, it would strictly and only be to flip and run away from. In that case, I could end up stuck in it and have it relegated to a bottom corner of a safe somewhere, rarely seen and unloved.
At this point, I don’t love it and don’t want it in my collection. It looks inferior for its price point at this mintage level. Time will tell which way it goes. As much as it infuriates the masses, I find it an intriguing test of Mint decision-making and leadership.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
So what would make you happy? A full ounce of silver?
That's really the deal breaker for you at $750? The missing thickness and $32 worth of silver?
The gold is already plenty big at one ounce, and the half ounce is almost the exact same size, just half as thick and half as expensive. And the silver is also the same size.
So again, is that really the problem, or just a nit to pick because you can't bring yourself to agree with those of us who just think it's crazy in general, not because it is a coin sized coin? It would be fine if it was a Mr. T sized trinket, but still priced at the same premium to spot?
No, it's not a 99 cent cheapie. It's just an artificial rarity that isn't really all that rare in relation to its pricing for what it is. Not one of 230 special FH gold coins, but one of 2026 trinkets, times 3, like a PAMP Hot Wheels or Barbie.
Those sell for around $200 each with similar mintages. True they are not official Mint products, but they are no more gimmicky. These are not coins. They are monetized tchotchkes. Attractive to some, but generally not to serious people with serious money to spend on coins.
The price is based on the artificial rarity. Not on the size, or the precious metal content. Clearly, given the wild premiums. TBD.
I agree!
Although I'm still toying with buying the silver - full disclosure.
I have confidence you'll come to your senses when you don't see a buzz materialize pre-release.e
NJ, I’m really just torn here. I can see you being 100% right, but I can also see it going the other way as part of a “greater fools” test. If I was to take a stab at any of these, it would strictly and only be to flip and run away from. In that case, I could end up stuck in it and have it relegated to a bottom corner of a safe somewhere, rarely seen and unloved.
At this point, I don’t love it and don’t want it in my collection. It looks inferior for its price point at this mintage level. Time will tell which way it goes. As much as it infuriates the masses, I find it an intriguing test of Mint decision-making and leadership.
In that case, please don't. Even if there is interest, at these prices the vast majority of the flip is already gone. You will do FAR better using $750 to buy 6 uncirculated sets to break up and have graded, or to just flip as is for whatever you can get.
Do you honestly see the half ounce silver Liberty Bell medal going for $1500, or $3K, in the secondary market? If so, please explain to me why 8300 of 25,000 2.5 ounce Superman medals sit unloved and unsold on the Mint website as we speak. Same with 4K out of 10K half ounce gold coins.
Also very low mintages, albeit admittedly not quite as low. Also very expensive, albeit not nearly as expensive.
Because this is different? I guess we'll see.
Some are salivating because the mintage is tantalizingly low, while ignoring the fact that the prices are eye wateringly high. They analogize to other things with low mintages selling for similar or higher premiums, while dismissing the fact that these are not those.
This is new and unique. Maybe a market develops for these at this mintage and price. Maybe not.
FWIW, I absolutely do not suffer from FOMO with this. As I have said repeatedly in the past, as a taxpayer and collector, I wish the US Mint nothing but success in all of its endeavors.
But this is a game I have no interest in playing. So I am perfectly content to sit on the sidelines, make my predictions, and then either take a victory lap or suffer a public shaming.
But I am not chasing artificial rarities that have nothing to do with the rest of my collection, or why I started collecting in the first place. Sure, if it was a guaranteed home run, I'd step up to the plate and accept the windfall, as I'm sure most of us would. But there are few guarantees in life, and 2,000 of anything at 5x to 23x very elevated intrinsic value are certainly not among them. Keep in mind that gold and silver are still historically very expensive, even after the recent pullback.
As a result, I don't want to have any part of encouraging the Mint to go in this direction. So I'm leaving that to others. I'm happy to sit in the cheap seats and just enjoy the show. Unless you have unlimited money to burn, I humbly suggest you do the same.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
I agree , I like the design .... again I just can't see the price ?
Right. That's the entire problem. People like you who would be attracted to the product are not in a position to buy it, and those with the wherewithal to drop $20K on a gimmicky trinket will have no interest. Which is why it will land with a tremendous thud.
Instead of getting too cute by half, they should have just issued it with the usual mintages at the usual, already excessive pricing. I just don't think there is going to be a market for these.
They also could have made a clad version in a larger issuance for $100 or less. That might have had more appeal.
They also could have the silver version in a larger issuance for a far lower price. Precious metal value is not driving the pricing here, and you know it.
They are testing the waters to see if the market will tolerate very low, but not Stacks auction low, mintages at extremely elevated prices. And doing it with a one-off unique thing like this rather than messing with a variant of a popular series, like a privy on an AGE, because that would like make peoples' heads explode.
If this sells out, then yeah, look for infinite takes on it in the future. Otherwise, the market will have spoken, these will sit on the website unsold for years, and we won't see things like this anymore. After the DC debacle, I am reasonably confident we won't be seeing any more IP licensing deals going forward.
I didn't say it was. But they don't sell anything silver for under $100. The clad halves are $64, i believe.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
So what would make you happy? A full ounce of silver?
That's really the deal breaker for you at $750? The missing thickness and $32 worth of silver?
The gold is already plenty big at one ounce, and the half ounce is almost the exact same size, just half as thick and half as expensive. And the silver is also the same size.
So again, is that really the problem, or just a nit to pick because you can't bring yourself to agree with those of us who just think it's crazy in general, not because it is a coin sized coin? It would be fine if it was a Mr. T sized trinket, but still priced at the same premium to spot?
No, it's not a 99 cent cheapie. It's just an artificial rarity that isn't really all that rare in relation to its pricing for what it is. Not one of 230 special FH gold coins, but one of 2026 trinkets, times 3, like a PAMP Hot Wheels or Barbie.
Those sell for around $200 each with similar mintages. True they are not official Mint products, but they are no more gimmicky. These are not coins. They are monetized tchotchkes. Attractive to some, but generally not to serious people with serious money to spend on coins.
The price is based on the artificial rarity. Not on the size, or the precious metal content. Clearly, given the wild premiums. TBD.
I agree!
Although I'm still toying with buying the silver - full disclosure.
I have confidence you'll come to your senses when you don't see a buzz materialize pre-release.e
NJ, I’m really just torn here. I can see you being 100% right, but I can also see it going the other way as part of a “greater fools” test. If I was to take a stab at any of these, it would strictly and only be to flip and run away from. In that case, I could end up stuck in it and have it relegated to a bottom corner of a safe somewhere, rarely seen and unloved.
At this point, I don’t love it and don’t want it in my collection. It looks inferior for its price point at this mintage level. Time will tell which way it goes. As much as it infuriates the masses, I find it an intriguing test of Mint decision-making and leadership.
In that case, please don't. Even if there is interest, at these prices the vast majority of the flip is already gone. You will do FAR better using $750 to buy 6 uncirculated sets to break up and have graded, or to just flip as is for whatever you can get.
Do you honestly see the half ounce silver Liberty Bell medal going for $1500, or $3K, in the secondary market? If so, please explain to me why 8300 of 25,000 2.5 ounce Superman medals sit unloved and unsold on the Mint website as we speak. Same with 4K out of 10K half ounce gold coins.
Also very low mintages, albeit admittedly not quite as low. Also very expensive, albeit not nearly as expensive.
Because this is different? I guess we'll see.
Some are salivating because the mintage is tantalizingly low, while ignoring the fact that the prices are eye wateringly high. They analogize to other things with low mintages selling for similar or higher premiums, while dismissing the fact that these are not those.
This is new and unique. Maybe a market develops for these at this mintage and price. Maybe not.
FWIW, I absolutely do not suffer from FOMO with this. As I have said repeatedly in the past, as a taxpayer and collector, I wish the US Mint nothing but success in all of its endeavors.
But this is a game I have no interest in playing. So I am perfectly content to sit on the sidelines, make my predictions, and then either take a victory lap or suffer a public shaming.
But I am not chasing artificial rarities that have nothing to do with the rest of my collection, or why I started collecting in the first place. Sure, if it was a guaranteed home run, I'd step up to the plate and accept the windfall, as I'm sure most of us would. But there are few guarantees in life, and 2,000 of anything at 5x to 23x very elevated intrinsic value are certainly not among them. Keep in mind that gold and silver are still historically very expensive, even after the recent pullback.
As a result, I don't want to have any part of encouraging the Mint to go in this direction. So I'm leaving that to others. I'm happy to sit in the cheap seats and just enjoy the show. Unless you have unlimited money to burn, I humbly suggest you do the same.
Coin vs medal is different.
This is both a SemiQ and a US Mint first.
I still think it could go either way.
All it takes is a little research
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
I agree , I like the design .... again I just can't see the price ?
Right. That's the entire problem. People like you who would be attracted to the product are not in a position to buy it, and those with the wherewithal to drop $20K on a gimmicky trinket will have no interest. Which is why it will land with a tremendous thud.
Instead of getting too cute by half, they should have just issued it with the usual mintages at the usual, already excessive pricing. I just don't think there is going to be a market for these.
They also could have made a clad version in a larger issuance for $100 or less. That might have had more appeal.
They also could have the silver version in a larger issuance for a far lower price. Precious metal value is not driving the pricing here, and you know it.
They are testing the waters to see if the market will tolerate very low, but not Stacks auction low, mintages at extremely elevated prices. And doing it with a one-off unique thing like this rather than messing with a variant of a popular series, like a privy on an AGE, because that would like make peoples' heads explode.
If this sells out, then yeah, look for infinite takes on it in the future. Otherwise, the market will have spoken, these will sit on the website unsold for years, and we won't see things like this anymore. After the DC debacle, I am reasonably confident we won't be seeing any more IP licensing deals going forward.
I didn't say it was. But they don't sell anything silver for under $100. The clad halves are $64, i believe.
So what? Given that the price of this is in no way tied to the price of silver, $32 worth of silver is not the reason they priced it at $750. As a result, there is no reason to think that bringing it down to $0 worth of silver would significantly move the needle on the price.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
So what would make you happy? A full ounce of silver?
That's really the deal breaker for you at $750? The missing thickness and $32 worth of silver?
The gold is already plenty big at one ounce, and the half ounce is almost the exact same size, just half as thick and half as expensive. And the silver is also the same size.
So again, is that really the problem, or just a nit to pick because you can't bring yourself to agree with those of us who just think it's crazy in general, not because it is a coin sized coin? It would be fine if it was a Mr. T sized trinket, but still priced at the same premium to spot?
No, it's not a 99 cent cheapie. It's just an artificial rarity that isn't really all that rare in relation to its pricing for what it is. Not one of 230 special FH gold coins, but one of 2026 trinkets, times 3, like a PAMP Hot Wheels or Barbie.
Those sell for around $200 each with similar mintages. True they are not official Mint products, but they are no more gimmicky. These are not coins. They are monetized tchotchkes. Attractive to some, but generally not to serious people with serious money to spend on coins.
The price is based on the artificial rarity. Not on the size, or the precious metal content. Clearly, given the wild premiums. TBD.
I agree!
Although I'm still toying with buying the silver - full disclosure.
I have confidence you'll come to your senses when you don't see a buzz materialize pre-release.e
NJ, I’m really just torn here. I can see you being 100% right, but I can also see it going the other way as part of a “greater fools” test. If I was to take a stab at any of these, it would strictly and only be to flip and run away from. In that case, I could end up stuck in it and have it relegated to a bottom corner of a safe somewhere, rarely seen and unloved.
At this point, I don’t love it and don’t want it in my collection. It looks inferior for its price point at this mintage level. Time will tell which way it goes. As much as it infuriates the masses, I find it an intriguing test of Mint decision-making and leadership.
In that case, please don't. Even if there is interest, at these prices the vast majority of the flip is already gone. You will do FAR better using $750 to buy 6 uncirculated sets to break up and have graded, or to just flip as is for whatever you can get.
Do you honestly see the half ounce silver Liberty Bell medal going for $1500, or $3K, in the secondary market? If so, please explain to me why 8300 of 25,000 2.5 ounce Superman medals sit unloved and unsold on the Mint website as we speak. Same with 4K out of 10K half ounce gold coins.
Also very low mintages, albeit admittedly not quite as low. Also very expensive, albeit not nearly as expensive.
Because this is different? I guess we'll see.
Some are salivating because the mintage is tantalizingly low, while ignoring the fact that the prices are eye wateringly high. They analogize to other things with low mintages selling for similar or higher premiums, while dismissing the fact that these are not those.
This is new and unique. Maybe a market develops for these at this mintage and price. Maybe not.
FWIW, I absolutely do not suffer from FOMO with this. As I have said repeatedly in the past, as a taxpayer and collector, I wish the US Mint nothing but success in all of its endeavors.
But this is a game I have no interest in playing. So I am perfectly content to sit on the sidelines, make my predictions, and then either take a victory lap or suffer a public shaming.
But I am not chasing artificial rarities that have nothing to do with the rest of my collection, or why I started collecting in the first place. Sure, if it was a guaranteed home run, I'd step up to the plate and accept the windfall, as I'm sure most of us would. But there are few guarantees in life, and 2,000 of anything at 5x to 23x very elevated intrinsic value are certainly not among them. Keep in mind that gold and silver are still historically very expensive, even after the recent pullback.
As a result, I don't want to have any part of encouraging the Mint to go in this direction. So I'm leaving that to others. I'm happy to sit in the cheap seats and just enjoy the show. Unless you have unlimited money to burn, I humbly suggest you do the same.
Coin vs medal is different.
This is both a SemiQ and a US Mint first.
I still think it could go either way.
All it takes is a little research
Not sure whether eBay presales a month before release are actually "research" or just noise. Because we both know those can and will be canceled by one party or the other if the actual secondary market develops wildly differently than expected.
Notoriously by sellers who will fail to deliver if they either cannot obtain inventory, or if they can later sell for far more than the presale price. Not exactly sure how buyers get their money back if it's not returnable and it turns out they vastly overpaid. The mere fact that anyone would even consider entering into a one-sided seller option is yet another reason presales like this are garbage in terms of indicating anything other than buyer stupidity.
People blindly paying double issue price a month before release, with absolutely no knowledge regarding how easy or difficult they will be to buy from the Mint, does nothing for me other than reaffirm my belief that the level of stupidity of the American public can never be overestimated. Because they are locking in a loss if the price is too high, and guaranteeing nothing if the price turns out to be good.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
I agree , I like the design .... again I just can't see the price ?
Right. That's the entire problem. People like you who would be attracted to the product are not in a position to buy it, and those with the wherewithal to drop $20K on a gimmicky trinket will have no interest. Which is why it will land with a tremendous thud.
Instead of getting too cute by half, they should have just issued it with the usual mintages at the usual, already excessive pricing. I just don't think there is going to be a market for these.
They also could have made a clad version in a larger issuance for $100 or less. That might have had more appeal.
They also could have the silver version in a larger issuance for a far lower price. Precious metal value is not driving the pricing here, and you know it.
They are testing the waters to see if the market will tolerate very low, but not Stacks auction low, mintages at extremely elevated prices. And doing it with a one-off unique thing like this rather than messing with a variant of a popular series, like a privy on an AGE, because that would like make peoples' heads explode.
If this sells out, then yeah, look for infinite takes on it in the future. Otherwise, the market will have spoken, these will sit on the website unsold for years, and we won't see things like this anymore. After the DC debacle, I am reasonably confident we won't be seeing any more IP licensing deals going forward.
I didn't say it was. But they don't sell anything silver for under $100. The clad halves are $64, i believe.
So what? Given that the price of this is in no way tied to the price of silver, $32 worth of silver is not the reason they priced it at $750. As a result, there is no reason to think that bringing it down to $0 worth of silver would significantly move the needle on the price.
Again, you are making an inference that I did not make. Yes, they could have sold it for $3. And, yes, they COULD have priced it at any price between $0 and $1 million with silver. But if you simply use their normal 2026 pricing scheme, there is no way (in my humble opinion) they are going to price the silver at under $100. Soooooo...If I wanted a sub-$100 price, it would likely have to be clad. That was my sole suggestion. Sure, they COULD price a clad at $1000 also, but you are either intentionally ignoring the point or trying to make a different point. You may continue to pick this nit at your pleasure.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
So what would make you happy? A full ounce of silver?
That's really the deal breaker for you at $750? The missing thickness and $32 worth of silver?
The gold is already plenty big at one ounce, and the half ounce is almost the exact same size, just half as thick and half as expensive. And the silver is also the same size.
So again, is that really the problem, or just a nit to pick because you can't bring yourself to agree with those of us who just think it's crazy in general, not because it is a coin sized coin? It would be fine if it was a Mr. T sized trinket, but still priced at the same premium to spot?
No, it's not a 99 cent cheapie. It's just an artificial rarity that isn't really all that rare in relation to its pricing for what it is. Not one of 230 special FH gold coins, but one of 2026 trinkets, times 3, like a PAMP Hot Wheels or Barbie.
Those sell for around $200 each with similar mintages. True they are not official Mint products, but they are no more gimmicky. These are not coins. They are monetized tchotchkes. Attractive to some, but generally not to serious people with serious money to spend on coins.
The price is based on the artificial rarity. Not on the size, or the precious metal content. Clearly, given the wild premiums. TBD.
I agree!
Although I'm still toying with buying the silver - full disclosure.
I have confidence you'll come to your senses when you don't see a buzz materialize pre-release.e
NJ, I’m really just torn here. I can see you being 100% right, but I can also see it going the other way as part of a “greater fools” test. If I was to take a stab at any of these, it would strictly and only be to flip and run away from. In that case, I could end up stuck in it and have it relegated to a bottom corner of a safe somewhere, rarely seen and unloved.
At this point, I don’t love it and don’t want it in my collection. It looks inferior for its price point at this mintage level. Time will tell which way it goes. As much as it infuriates the masses, I find it an intriguing test of Mint decision-making and leadership.
In that case, please don't. Even if there is interest, at these prices the vast majority of the flip is already gone. You will do FAR better using $750 to buy 6 uncirculated sets to break up and have graded, or to just flip as is for whatever you can get.
Do you honestly see the half ounce silver Liberty Bell medal going for $1500, or $3K, in the secondary market? If so, please explain to me why 8300 of 25,000 2.5 ounce Superman medals sit unloved and unsold on the Mint website as we speak. Same with 4K out of 10K half ounce gold coins.
Also very low mintages, albeit admittedly not quite as low. Also very expensive, albeit not nearly as expensive.
Because this is different? I guess we'll see.
Some are salivating because the mintage is tantalizingly low, while ignoring the fact that the prices are eye wateringly high. They analogize to other things with low mintages selling for similar or higher premiums, while dismissing the fact that these are not those.
This is new and unique. Maybe a market develops for these at this mintage and price. Maybe not.
FWIW, I absolutely do not suffer from FOMO with this. As I have said repeatedly in the past, as a taxpayer and collector, I wish the US Mint nothing but success in all of its endeavors.
But this is a game I have no interest in playing. So I am perfectly content to sit on the sidelines, make my predictions, and then either take a victory lap or suffer a public shaming.
But I am not chasing artificial rarities that have nothing to do with the rest of my collection, or why I started collecting in the first place. Sure, if it was a guaranteed home run, I'd step up to the plate and accept the windfall, as I'm sure most of us would. But there are few guarantees in life, and 2,000 of anything at 5x to 23x very elevated intrinsic value are certainly not among them. Keep in mind that gold and silver are still historically very expensive, even after the recent pullback.
As a result, I don't want to have any part of encouraging the Mint to go in this direction. So I'm leaving that to others. I'm happy to sit in the cheap seats and just enjoy the show. Unless you have unlimited money to burn, I humbly suggest you do the same.
Coin vs medal is different.
This is both a SemiQ and a US Mint first.
I still think it could go either way.
All it takes is a little research
Not sure whether eBay presales a month before release are actually "research" or just noise. Because we both know those can and will be canceled by one party or the other if the actual secondary market develops wildly differently than expected.
Notoriously by sellers who will fail to deliver if they either cannot obtain inventory, or if they can later sell for far more than the presale price. Not exactly sure how buyers get their money back if it's not returnable and it turns out they vastly overpaid. The mere fact that anyone would even consider entering into a one-sided seller option is yet another reason presales like this are garbage in terms of indicating anything other than buyer stupidity.
People blindly paying double issue price a month before release, with absolutely no knowledge regarding how easy or difficult they will be to buy from the Mint, does nothing for me other than reaffirm my belief that the level of stupidity of the American public can never be overestimated. Because they are locking in a loss if the price is too high, and guaranteeing nothing if the price turns out to be good.
You "observed" that you could not see these selling for $1500. They may or may not. HOWEVER, the FACT - no speculation involved - is that they are CURRENTLY selling for $1300 presale. So, your "observation" (hallucination?) that they could never sell for $1500 is close to already being false.
Again, to try and avoid further picking of nits, I am not saying they should sell for $1500, that they will sell for $1500, that they will (or won't) sell out in 5 minutes. I only offer this ACTUAL RESEARCH to indicate that they ARE CURRENTLY selling for $1300+ in pre-sales so it is not so outlandish that they sell for $1300+ upon release. There is more than one person willing to part with $1300 now. That's just a fact - no speculation, no future predictions, no nothing.
We had a nice run, but I see you're back to picking fights!
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
I agree , I like the design .... again I just can't see the price ?
Right. That's the entire problem. People like you who would be attracted to the product are not in a position to buy it, and those with the wherewithal to drop $20K on a gimmicky trinket will have no interest. Which is why it will land with a tremendous thud.
Instead of getting too cute by half, they should have just issued it with the usual mintages at the usual, already excessive pricing. I just don't think there is going to be a market for these.
They also could have made a clad version in a larger issuance for $100 or less. That might have had more appeal.
They also could have the silver version in a larger issuance for a far lower price. Precious metal value is not driving the pricing here, and you know it.
They are testing the waters to see if the market will tolerate very low, but not Stacks auction low, mintages at extremely elevated prices. And doing it with a one-off unique thing like this rather than messing with a variant of a popular series, like a privy on an AGE, because that would like make peoples' heads explode.
If this sells out, then yeah, look for infinite takes on it in the future. Otherwise, the market will have spoken, these will sit on the website unsold for years, and we won't see things like this anymore. After the DC debacle, I am reasonably confident we won't be seeing any more IP licensing deals going forward.
I didn't say it was. But they don't sell anything silver for under $100. The clad halves are $64, i believe.
So what? Given that the price of this is in no way tied to the price of silver, $32 worth of silver is not the reason they priced it at $750. As a result, there is no reason to think that bringing it down to $0 worth of silver would significantly move the needle on the price.
Again, you are making an inference that I did not make. Yes, they could have sold it for $3. And, yes, they COULD have priced it at any price between $0 and $1 million with silver. But if you simply use their normal 2026 pricing scheme, there is no way (in my humble opinion) they are going to price the silver at under $100. Soooooo...If I wanted a sub-$100 price, it would likely have to be clad. That was my sole suggestion. Sure, they COULD price a clad at $1000 also, but you are either intentionally ignoring the point or trying to make a different point. You may continue to pick this nit at your pleasure.
And again, with all due respect, it's a pointless point. They are pricing a half ounce of silver at $750.
Have they ever done that before? No?
But they are going to price clad under $100, to stick to convention? You're just saying stuff to say stuff. It makes no sense.
If they wanted to hit a lower price point, they could have just hit in the first place. With or without silver.
Why would I "simply use their normal 2026 pricing scheme," only for clad, and only for you to make a pointless point?
This has nothing to do with silver, gold, clad, or "their normal 2026 pricing scheme." This is something else entirely. Why do you feel the need to fight it?
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
So what would make you happy? A full ounce of silver?
That's really the deal breaker for you at $750? The missing thickness and $32 worth of silver?
The gold is already plenty big at one ounce, and the half ounce is almost the exact same size, just half as thick and half as expensive. And the silver is also the same size.
So again, is that really the problem, or just a nit to pick because you can't bring yourself to agree with those of us who just think it's crazy in general, not because it is a coin sized coin? It would be fine if it was a Mr. T sized trinket, but still priced at the same premium to spot?
No, it's not a 99 cent cheapie. It's just an artificial rarity that isn't really all that rare in relation to its pricing for what it is. Not one of 230 special FH gold coins, but one of 2026 trinkets, times 3, like a PAMP Hot Wheels or Barbie.
Those sell for around $200 each with similar mintages. True they are not official Mint products, but they are no more gimmicky. These are not coins. They are monetized tchotchkes. Attractive to some, but generally not to serious people with serious money to spend on coins.
The price is based on the artificial rarity. Not on the size, or the precious metal content. Clearly, given the wild premiums. TBD.
I agree!
Although I'm still toying with buying the silver - full disclosure.
I have confidence you'll come to your senses when you don't see a buzz materialize pre-release.e
NJ, I’m really just torn here. I can see you being 100% right, but I can also see it going the other way as part of a “greater fools” test. If I was to take a stab at any of these, it would strictly and only be to flip and run away from. In that case, I could end up stuck in it and have it relegated to a bottom corner of a safe somewhere, rarely seen and unloved.
At this point, I don’t love it and don’t want it in my collection. It looks inferior for its price point at this mintage level. Time will tell which way it goes. As much as it infuriates the masses, I find it an intriguing test of Mint decision-making and leadership.
In that case, please don't. Even if there is interest, at these prices the vast majority of the flip is already gone. You will do FAR better using $750 to buy 6 uncirculated sets to break up and have graded, or to just flip as is for whatever you can get.
Do you honestly see the half ounce silver Liberty Bell medal going for $1500, or $3K, in the secondary market? If so, please explain to me why 8300 of 25,000 2.5 ounce Superman medals sit unloved and unsold on the Mint website as we speak. Same with 4K out of 10K half ounce gold coins.
Also very low mintages, albeit admittedly not quite as low. Also very expensive, albeit not nearly as expensive.
Because this is different? I guess we'll see.
Some are salivating because the mintage is tantalizingly low, while ignoring the fact that the prices are eye wateringly high. They analogize to other things with low mintages selling for similar or higher premiums, while dismissing the fact that these are not those.
This is new and unique. Maybe a market develops for these at this mintage and price. Maybe not.
FWIW, I absolutely do not suffer from FOMO with this. As I have said repeatedly in the past, as a taxpayer and collector, I wish the US Mint nothing but success in all of its endeavors.
But this is a game I have no interest in playing. So I am perfectly content to sit on the sidelines, make my predictions, and then either take a victory lap or suffer a public shaming.
But I am not chasing artificial rarities that have nothing to do with the rest of my collection, or why I started collecting in the first place. Sure, if it was a guaranteed home run, I'd step up to the plate and accept the windfall, as I'm sure most of us would. But there are few guarantees in life, and 2,000 of anything at 5x to 23x very elevated intrinsic value are certainly not among them. Keep in mind that gold and silver are still historically very expensive, even after the recent pullback.
As a result, I don't want to have any part of encouraging the Mint to go in this direction. So I'm leaving that to others. I'm happy to sit in the cheap seats and just enjoy the show. Unless you have unlimited money to burn, I humbly suggest you do the same.
Coin vs medal is different.
This is both a SemiQ and a US Mint first.
I still think it could go either way.
All it takes is a little research
Not sure whether eBay presales a month before release are actually "research" or just noise. Because we both know those can and will be canceled by one party or the other if the actual secondary market develops wildly differently than expected.
Notoriously by sellers who will fail to deliver if they either cannot obtain inventory, or if they can later sell for far more than the presale price. Not exactly sure how buyers get their money back if it's not returnable and it turns out they vastly overpaid. The mere fact that anyone would even consider entering into a one-sided seller option is yet another reason presales like this are garbage in terms of indicating anything other than buyer stupidity.
People blindly paying double issue price a month before release, with absolutely no knowledge regarding how easy or difficult they will be to buy from the Mint, does nothing for me other than reaffirm my belief that the level of stupidity of the American public can never be overestimated. Because they are locking in a loss if the price is too high, and guaranteeing nothing if the price turns out to be good.
You "observed" that you could not see these selling for $1500. They may or may not. HOWEVER, the FACT - no speculation involved - is that they are CURRENTLY selling for $1300 presale. So, your "observation" (hallucination?) that they could never sell for $1500 is close to already being false.
Again, to try and avoid further picking of nits, I am not saying they should sell for $1500, that they will sell for $1500, that they will (or won't) sell out in 5 minutes. I only offer this ACTUAL RESEARCH to indicate that they ARE CURRENTLY selling for $1300+ in pre-sales so it is not so outlandish that they sell for $1300+ upon release. There is more than one person willing to part with $1300 now. That's just a fact - no speculation, no future predictions, no nothing.
We had a nice run, but I see you're back to picking fights!
Actually, that's not a "fact," because I have no way to know whether or not the sales are real or shills to try to stimulate some FOMO stupidity. Neither do you.
All I know is eBay presales for something like this are nothing more than free seller options, if they are not shills. You know this too.
After all, why would anyone with more brains than money commit to buying something from someone at 2x the issue price, with no assurance that the person will be able or willing to deliver, and without knowing whether or not they will be able to secure one at the issue price? What you refer to as fact looks a lot more like fiction to me. Sorry.
But thanks for getting back to arguing for the sake of arguing. I was getting worried there for a bit that you were going soft on me. Please let me know if those $1300 eBay sales motivate you to go in for a few, absent any dealer buying interest before release.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
I agree , I like the design .... again I just can't see the price ?
Right. That's the entire problem. People like you who would be attracted to the product are not in a position to buy it, and those with the wherewithal to drop $20K on a gimmicky trinket will have no interest. Which is why it will land with a tremendous thud.
Instead of getting too cute by half, they should have just issued it with the usual mintages at the usual, already excessive pricing. I just don't think there is going to be a market for these.
They also could have made a clad version in a larger issuance for $100 or less. That might have had more appeal.
They also could have the silver version in a larger issuance for a far lower price. Precious metal value is not driving the pricing here, and you know it.
They are testing the waters to see if the market will tolerate very low, but not Stacks auction low, mintages at extremely elevated prices. And doing it with a one-off unique thing like this rather than messing with a variant of a popular series, like a privy on an AGE, because that would like make peoples' heads explode.
If this sells out, then yeah, look for infinite takes on it in the future. Otherwise, the market will have spoken, these will sit on the website unsold for years, and we won't see things like this anymore. After the DC debacle, I am reasonably confident we won't be seeing any more IP licensing deals going forward.
I didn't say it was. But they don't sell anything silver for under $100. The clad halves are $64, i believe.
So what? Given that the price of this is in no way tied to the price of silver, $32 worth of silver is not the reason they priced it at $750. As a result, there is no reason to think that bringing it down to $0 worth of silver would significantly move the needle on the price.
Again, you are making an inference that I did not make. Yes, they could have sold it for $3. And, yes, they COULD have priced it at any price between $0 and $1 million with silver. But if you simply use their normal 2026 pricing scheme, there is no way (in my humble opinion) they are going to price the silver at under $100. Soooooo...If I wanted a sub-$100 price, it would likely have to be clad. That was my sole suggestion. Sure, they COULD price a clad at $1000 also, but you are either intentionally ignoring the point or trying to make a different point. You may continue to pick this nit at your pleasure.
And again, with all due respect, it's a pointless point. They are pricing a half ounce of silver at $750.
Have they ever done that before? No?
But they are going to price clad under $100, to stick to convention? You're just saying stuff to say stuff. It makes no sense.
If they wanted to hit a lower price point, they could have just it in the first place. With or without silver.
Why would I "simply use their normal 2026 pricing scheme," only for clad, and only for you to make a pointless point?
This has nothing to do with silver, gold, clad, or "their normal 2026 pricing scheme." This is something else entirely. Why do you feel the need to fight it?
And, again, it's apparently not so pointless, since you want to pick at it. LOL
My original "point" was simply the suggestion that: "They also could have made a clad version in a larger issuance for $100 or less. That might have had more appeal."
Let's examine my exact wording. They "COULD HAVE" - just an option that doesn't exist. "MADE A CLAD VERSION...FOR $100 OR LESS". And then I speculated that such an issuance "MIGHT" have had more appeal.
Despite your (continued) argument, my statement is inarguable. They could have made a clad version for $100 or less. And it may have had more appeal.
All your total BS about bullion prices and pricing of clads not being tethered is nothing but bloviating that is unrelated to my original statement. They absolutely COULD HAVE made a clad version for UNDER $100 and that might have had appeal.
Yes, I chose clad because I considered it impossible that they would offer the silver version for less than $100. But you actually agree with that point.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
So what would make you happy? A full ounce of silver?
That's really the deal breaker for you at $750? The missing thickness and $32 worth of silver?
The gold is already plenty big at one ounce, and the half ounce is almost the exact same size, just half as thick and half as expensive. And the silver is also the same size.
So again, is that really the problem, or just a nit to pick because you can't bring yourself to agree with those of us who just think it's crazy in general, not because it is a coin sized coin? It would be fine if it was a Mr. T sized trinket, but still priced at the same premium to spot?
No, it's not a 99 cent cheapie. It's just an artificial rarity that isn't really all that rare in relation to its pricing for what it is. Not one of 230 special FH gold coins, but one of 2026 trinkets, times 3, like a PAMP Hot Wheels or Barbie.
Those sell for around $200 each with similar mintages. True they are not official Mint products, but they are no more gimmicky. These are not coins. They are monetized tchotchkes. Attractive to some, but generally not to serious people with serious money to spend on coins.
The price is based on the artificial rarity. Not on the size, or the precious metal content. Clearly, given the wild premiums. TBD.
I agree!
Although I'm still toying with buying the silver - full disclosure.
I have confidence you'll come to your senses when you don't see a buzz materialize pre-release.e
NJ, I’m really just torn here. I can see you being 100% right, but I can also see it going the other way as part of a “greater fools” test. If I was to take a stab at any of these, it would strictly and only be to flip and run away from. In that case, I could end up stuck in it and have it relegated to a bottom corner of a safe somewhere, rarely seen and unloved.
At this point, I don’t love it and don’t want it in my collection. It looks inferior for its price point at this mintage level. Time will tell which way it goes. As much as it infuriates the masses, I find it an intriguing test of Mint decision-making and leadership.
In that case, please don't. Even if there is interest, at these prices the vast majority of the flip is already gone. You will do FAR better using $750 to buy 6 uncirculated sets to break up and have graded, or to just flip as is for whatever you can get.
Do you honestly see the half ounce silver Liberty Bell medal going for $1500, or $3K, in the secondary market? If so, please explain to me why 8300 of 25,000 2.5 ounce Superman medals sit unloved and unsold on the Mint website as we speak. Same with 4K out of 10K half ounce gold coins.
Also very low mintages, albeit admittedly not quite as low. Also very expensive, albeit not nearly as expensive.
Because this is different? I guess we'll see.
Some are salivating because the mintage is tantalizingly low, while ignoring the fact that the prices are eye wateringly high. They analogize to other things with low mintages selling for similar or higher premiums, while dismissing the fact that these are not those.
This is new and unique. Maybe a market develops for these at this mintage and price. Maybe not.
FWIW, I absolutely do not suffer from FOMO with this. As I have said repeatedly in the past, as a taxpayer and collector, I wish the US Mint nothing but success in all of its endeavors.
But this is a game I have no interest in playing. So I am perfectly content to sit on the sidelines, make my predictions, and then either take a victory lap or suffer a public shaming.
But I am not chasing artificial rarities that have nothing to do with the rest of my collection, or why I started collecting in the first place. Sure, if it was a guaranteed home run, I'd step up to the plate and accept the windfall, as I'm sure most of us would. But there are few guarantees in life, and 2,000 of anything at 5x to 23x very elevated intrinsic value are certainly not among them. Keep in mind that gold and silver are still historically very expensive, even after the recent pullback.
As a result, I don't want to have any part of encouraging the Mint to go in this direction. So I'm leaving that to others. I'm happy to sit in the cheap seats and just enjoy the show. Unless you have unlimited money to burn, I humbly suggest you do the same.
Coin vs medal is different.
This is both a SemiQ and a US Mint first.
I still think it could go either way.
All it takes is a little research
Not sure whether eBay presales a month before release are actually "research" or just noise. Because we both know those can and will be canceled by one party or the other if the actual secondary market develops wildly differently than expected.
Notoriously by sellers who will fail to deliver if they either cannot obtain inventory, or if they can later sell for far more than the presale price. Not exactly sure how buyers get their money back if it's not returnable and it turns out they vastly overpaid. The mere fact that anyone would even consider entering into a one-sided seller option is yet another reason presales like this are garbage in terms of indicating anything other than buyer stupidity.
People blindly paying double issue price a month before release, with absolutely no knowledge regarding how easy or difficult they will be to buy from the Mint, does nothing for me other than reaffirm my belief that the level of stupidity of the American public can never be overestimated. Because they are locking in a loss if the price is too high, and guaranteeing nothing if the price turns out to be good.
You "observed" that you could not see these selling for $1500. They may or may not. HOWEVER, the FACT - no speculation involved - is that they are CURRENTLY selling for $1300 presale. So, your "observation" (hallucination?) that they could never sell for $1500 is close to already being false.
Again, to try and avoid further picking of nits, I am not saying they should sell for $1500, that they will sell for $1500, that they will (or won't) sell out in 5 minutes. I only offer this ACTUAL RESEARCH to indicate that they ARE CURRENTLY selling for $1300+ in pre-sales so it is not so outlandish that they sell for $1300+ upon release. There is more than one person willing to part with $1300 now. That's just a fact - no speculation, no future predictions, no nothing.
We had a nice run, but I see you're back to picking fights!
Actually, that's not a "fact," because I have no way to know whether or not the sales are real or shills to try to stimulate some FOMO stupidity. Neither do you.
All I know is eBay presales for something like this are nothing more than free seller options, if they are not shills. You know this too.
But thanks for getting back to arguing for the sake of arguing. I was getting worried there for a bit that you were going soft on me. Please let me know if those $1300 eBay sales motivate you to go in for a few, absent any dealer buying interest before release.
There are multiple sales, not just one or two. Sure, they could ALL be fake. That is HIGHLY UNLIKELY.
And how the f&ck am I the one arguing for the sake of arguing? I posted a screenshot of sales on eBay and YOU DECIDED TO ARGUE THAT THEY MUST ALL BE FAKE. I think EVERYONE can see who is picking this fight.
But, I'm going to let it go.
You're right. You're always right.
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT EVERYTHING, ALWAYS.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
I agree , I like the design .... again I just can't see the price ?
Right. That's the entire problem. People like you who would be attracted to the product are not in a position to buy it, and those with the wherewithal to drop $20K on a gimmicky trinket will have no interest. Which is why it will land with a tremendous thud.
Instead of getting too cute by half, they should have just issued it with the usual mintages at the usual, already excessive pricing. I just don't think there is going to be a market for these.
They also could have made a clad version in a larger issuance for $100 or less. That might have had more appeal.
They also could have the silver version in a larger issuance for a far lower price. Precious metal value is not driving the pricing here, and you know it.
They are testing the waters to see if the market will tolerate very low, but not Stacks auction low, mintages at extremely elevated prices. And doing it with a one-off unique thing like this rather than messing with a variant of a popular series, like a privy on an AGE, because that would like make peoples' heads explode.
If this sells out, then yeah, look for infinite takes on it in the future. Otherwise, the market will have spoken, these will sit on the website unsold for years, and we won't see things like this anymore. After the DC debacle, I am reasonably confident we won't be seeing any more IP licensing deals going forward.
I didn't say it was. But they don't sell anything silver for under $100. The clad halves are $64, i believe.
So what? Given that the price of this is in no way tied to the price of silver, $32 worth of silver is not the reason they priced it at $750. As a result, there is no reason to think that bringing it down to $0 worth of silver would significantly move the needle on the price.
Again, you are making an inference that I did not make. Yes, they could have sold it for $3. And, yes, they COULD have priced it at any price between $0 and $1 million with silver. But if you simply use their normal 2026 pricing scheme, there is no way (in my humble opinion) they are going to price the silver at under $100. Soooooo...If I wanted a sub-$100 price, it would likely have to be clad. That was my sole suggestion. Sure, they COULD price a clad at $1000 also, but you are either intentionally ignoring the point or trying to make a different point. You may continue to pick this nit at your pleasure.
And again, with all due respect, it's a pointless point. They are pricing a half ounce of silver at $750.
Have they ever done that before? No?
But they are going to price clad under $100, to stick to convention? You're just saying stuff to say stuff. It makes no sense.
If they wanted to hit a lower price point, they could have just it in the first place. With or without silver.
Why would I "simply use their normal 2026 pricing scheme," only for clad, and only for you to make a pointless point?
This has nothing to do with silver, gold, clad, or "their normal 2026 pricing scheme." This is something else entirely. Why do you feel the need to fight it?
And, again, it's apparently not so pointless, since you want to pick at it. LOL
My original "point" was simply the suggestion that: "They also could have made a clad version in a larger issuance for $100 or less. That might have had more appeal."
Let's examine my exact wording. They "COULD HAVE" - just an option that doesn't exist. "MADE A CLAD VERSION...FOR $100 OR LESS". And then I speculated that such an issuance "MIGHT" have had more appeal.
Despite your (continued) argument, my statement is inarguable. They could have made a clad version for $100 or less. And it may have had more appeal.
All your total BS about bullion prices and pricing of clads not being tethered is nothing but bloviating that is unrelated to my original statement. They absolutely COULD HAVE made a clad version for UNDER $100 and that might have had appeal.
Yes, I chose clad because I considered it impossible that they would offer the silver version for less than $100. But you actually agree with that point.
Again, so what? They also could have a silver medal in greater quantity at a lower price.
They didn't, because that's not their game with this. This is an experiment to see if they could replicate what world mints do, at a multiple of the prices they charge, with gimmicks that aren't even really coins. TBD.
Any version at a more normal price would blow up the experiment, by satisfying demand from people who actually like it, and cannibalizing any FOMO demand for a $750 half ounce of silver or $20,000 ounce of gold.
The game here is not to have "appeal" at normal pricing. The game is to see if they can successfully market 10x what they sold at auction at near auction pricing. On something that is not part of an established series, and is not even round. A literal gold paperweight that is a coin in name only, because it has a denomination on it. TBD.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
I agree , I like the design .... again I just can't see the price ?
Right. That's the entire problem. People like you who would be attracted to the product are not in a position to buy it, and those with the wherewithal to drop $20K on a gimmicky trinket will have no interest. Which is why it will land with a tremendous thud.
Instead of getting too cute by half, they should have just issued it with the usual mintages at the usual, already excessive pricing. I just don't think there is going to be a market for these.
They also could have made a clad version in a larger issuance for $100 or less. That might have had more appeal.
They also could have the silver version in a larger issuance for a far lower price. Precious metal value is not driving the pricing here, and you know it.
They are testing the waters to see if the market will tolerate very low, but not Stacks auction low, mintages at extremely elevated prices. And doing it with a one-off unique thing like this rather than messing with a variant of a popular series, like a privy on an AGE, because that would like make peoples' heads explode.
If this sells out, then yeah, look for infinite takes on it in the future. Otherwise, the market will have spoken, these will sit on the website unsold for years, and we won't see things like this anymore. After the DC debacle, I am reasonably confident we won't be seeing any more IP licensing deals going forward.
I didn't say it was. But they don't sell anything silver for under $100. The clad halves are $64, i believe.
This is an invoice from the mint from 5 months ago
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
So what would make you happy? A full ounce of silver?
That's really the deal breaker for you at $750? The missing thickness and $32 worth of silver?
The gold is already plenty big at one ounce, and the half ounce is almost the exact same size, just half as thick and half as expensive. And the silver is also the same size.
So again, is that really the problem, or just a nit to pick because you can't bring yourself to agree with those of us who just think it's crazy in general, not because it is a coin sized coin? It would be fine if it was a Mr. T sized trinket, but still priced at the same premium to spot?
No, it's not a 99 cent cheapie. It's just an artificial rarity that isn't really all that rare in relation to its pricing for what it is. Not one of 230 special FH gold coins, but one of 2026 trinkets, times 3, like a PAMP Hot Wheels or Barbie.
Those sell for around $200 each with similar mintages. True they are not official Mint products, but they are no more gimmicky. These are not coins. They are monetized tchotchkes. Attractive to some, but generally not to serious people with serious money to spend on coins.
The price is based on the artificial rarity. Not on the size, or the precious metal content. Clearly, given the wild premiums. TBD.
I agree!
Although I'm still toying with buying the silver - full disclosure.
I have confidence you'll come to your senses when you don't see a buzz materialize pre-release.e
NJ, I’m really just torn here. I can see you being 100% right, but I can also see it going the other way as part of a “greater fools” test. If I was to take a stab at any of these, it would strictly and only be to flip and run away from. In that case, I could end up stuck in it and have it relegated to a bottom corner of a safe somewhere, rarely seen and unloved.
At this point, I don’t love it and don’t want it in my collection. It looks inferior for its price point at this mintage level. Time will tell which way it goes. As much as it infuriates the masses, I find it an intriguing test of Mint decision-making and leadership.
In that case, please don't. Even if there is interest, at these prices the vast majority of the flip is already gone. You will do FAR better using $750 to buy 6 uncirculated sets to break up and have graded, or to just flip as is for whatever you can get.
Do you honestly see the half ounce silver Liberty Bell medal going for $1500, or $3K, in the secondary market? If so, please explain to me why 8300 of 25,000 2.5 ounce Superman medals sit unloved and unsold on the Mint website as we speak. Same with 4K out of 10K half ounce gold coins.
Also very low mintages, albeit admittedly not quite as low. Also very expensive, albeit not nearly as expensive.
Because this is different? I guess we'll see.
Some are salivating because the mintage is tantalizingly low, while ignoring the fact that the prices are eye wateringly high. They analogize to other things with low mintages selling for similar or higher premiums, while dismissing the fact that these are not those.
This is new and unique. Maybe a market develops for these at this mintage and price. Maybe not.
FWIW, I absolutely do not suffer from FOMO with this. As I have said repeatedly in the past, as a taxpayer and collector, I wish the US Mint nothing but success in all of its endeavors.
But this is a game I have no interest in playing. So I am perfectly content to sit on the sidelines, make my predictions, and then either take a victory lap or suffer a public shaming.
But I am not chasing artificial rarities that have nothing to do with the rest of my collection, or why I started collecting in the first place. Sure, if it was a guaranteed home run, I'd step up to the plate and accept the windfall, as I'm sure most of us would. But there are few guarantees in life, and 2,000 of anything at 5x to 23x very elevated intrinsic value are certainly not among them. Keep in mind that gold and silver are still historically very expensive, even after the recent pullback.
As a result, I don't want to have any part of encouraging the Mint to go in this direction. So I'm leaving that to others. I'm happy to sit in the cheap seats and just enjoy the show. Unless you have unlimited money to burn, I humbly suggest you do the same.
Coin vs medal is different.
This is both a SemiQ and a US Mint first.
I still think it could go either way.
All it takes is a little research
Not sure whether eBay presales a month before release are actually "research" or just noise. Because we both know those can and will be canceled by one party or the other if the actual secondary market develops wildly differently than expected.
Notoriously by sellers who will fail to deliver if they either cannot obtain inventory, or if they can later sell for far more than the presale price. Not exactly sure how buyers get their money back if it's not returnable and it turns out they vastly overpaid. The mere fact that anyone would even consider entering into a one-sided seller option is yet another reason presales like this are garbage in terms of indicating anything other than buyer stupidity.
People blindly paying double issue price a month before release, with absolutely no knowledge regarding how easy or difficult they will be to buy from the Mint, does nothing for me other than reaffirm my belief that the level of stupidity of the American public can never be overestimated. Because they are locking in a loss if the price is too high, and guaranteeing nothing if the price turns out to be good.
You "observed" that you could not see these selling for $1500. They may or may not. HOWEVER, the FACT - no speculation involved - is that they are CURRENTLY selling for $1300 presale. So, your "observation" (hallucination?) that they could never sell for $1500 is close to already being false.
Again, to try and avoid further picking of nits, I am not saying they should sell for $1500, that they will sell for $1500, that they will (or won't) sell out in 5 minutes. I only offer this ACTUAL RESEARCH to indicate that they ARE CURRENTLY selling for $1300+ in pre-sales so it is not so outlandish that they sell for $1300+ upon release. There is more than one person willing to part with $1300 now. That's just a fact - no speculation, no future predictions, no nothing.
We had a nice run, but I see you're back to picking fights!
Actually, that's not a "fact," because I have no way to know whether or not the sales are real or shills to try to stimulate some FOMO stupidity. Neither do you.
All I know is eBay presales for something like this are nothing more than free seller options, if they are not shills. You know this too.
But thanks for getting back to arguing for the sake of arguing. I was getting worried there for a bit that you were going soft on me. Please let me know if those $1300 eBay sales motivate you to go in for a few, absent any dealer buying interest before release.
There are multiple sales, not just one or two. Sure, they could ALL be fake. That is HIGHLY UNLIKELY.
And how the f&ck am I the one arguing for the sake of arguing? I posted a screenshot of sales on eBay and YOU DECIDED TO ARGUE THAT THEY MUST ALL BE FAKE. I think EVERYONE can see who is picking this fight.
But, I'm going to let it go.
You're right. You're always right.
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT EVERYTHING, ALWAYS.
Sorry, but I believe it is as likely that they are all fake as only one is. Because it makes absolutely no sense to me that anyone would actually commit to spending that money without knowing whether they will be able to secure one from the Mint, or whether the seller will be able to secure one, or whether they will have any recourse, other than a refund, if the seller fails to deliver.
A guarantee to be able to buy at $1300, or the have the seller reimburse the difference between $1300 and the ultimate buy price if it's higher, would be stupid enough, because the buyer would be establishing a floor of almost 2x issue price with absolutely no visibility into the T+1 secondary market value. But this is not even that. It's just a free option to allow the buyer to get screwed if these don't sell out, and don't trade for at least 2x issue price when sellers actually have inventory to deliver.
In the real world, other than the eBay "fact" world you seem to live in, absolutely no one who knows anything about anything grants anyone one month financial Put options for free. But here, all of your "HIGHLY LIKELY" legitimate eBay sales transactions are actually nothing more than July 16, 2026, $1300 Puts exercisable at the seller's option. That the buyers prepaid $1300 for. In other words, valuable risk free options to the seller for free. Crazy.
So crazy, in fact, that I don't believe the sales are real. Any of them.
I believe they are meant to induce suckers to jump in. And, even though I said I think it's impossible to overestimate the stupidity of the American public, I'm still having a difficult time wrapping my head around anyone actually buying at that price, this far out, with no visibility into whether they will be obtainable from the Mint at release. Moreover, I can't believe 2026 people will want them at $750, let alone anyone wanting them at $1300.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
I agree , I like the design .... again I just can't see the price ?
Right. That's the entire problem. People like you who would be attracted to the product are not in a position to buy it, and those with the wherewithal to drop $20K on a gimmicky trinket will have no interest. Which is why it will land with a tremendous thud.
Instead of getting too cute by half, they should have just issued it with the usual mintages at the usual, already excessive pricing. I just don't think there is going to be a market for these.
They also could have made a clad version in a larger issuance for $100 or less. That might have had more appeal.
They also could have the silver version in a larger issuance for a far lower price. Precious metal value is not driving the pricing here, and you know it.
They are testing the waters to see if the market will tolerate very low, but not Stacks auction low, mintages at extremely elevated prices. And doing it with a one-off unique thing like this rather than messing with a variant of a popular series, like a privy on an AGE, because that would like make peoples' heads explode.
If this sells out, then yeah, look for infinite takes on it in the future. Otherwise, the market will have spoken, these will sit on the website unsold for years, and we won't see things like this anymore. After the DC debacle, I am reasonably confident we won't be seeing any more IP licensing deals going forward.
I didn't say it was. But they don't sell anything silver for under $100. The clad halves are $64, i believe.
This is an invoice from the mint from 5 months ago
Yeah. Pre price increase. No more. He's not wrong about that.
But he's out in left field speculating that clad would be the only way to go to sell these at reasonable prices. Or that the price for clad would be any more reasonable than that for a half ounce of silver if they also offered 2026 in clad. And he misses the point that selling a lot more clad would totally destroy what it is they are trying to do with this test.
The idea here was not to be reasonable. It was to test just how unreasonable they could be with 3 similar items with a collective mintage of a little over 6K.
@NJCoin
I believe they are meant to induce suckers to jump in. And, even though I said I think it's impossible to overestimate the stupidity of the American public, I'm still having a difficult time wrapping my head around anyone actually buying at that price, this far out, with no visibility into whether they will be obtainable from the Mint at release. Moreover, I can't believe 2026 people will want them at $750, let alone anyone wanting them at $1300.
Do you even read what you write? There already is comparison to these, and yes there is precedent for this. Here is something else.
2026 times $750 = $1.5 million
Any silver eagle, take the low mintage Congratulations set.
60,000 times $170= $10.2 million
Even with the much higher prices the revenues are far lower for the silver Bell product itself.
At the silver bell revenue figure i doubt they make them again ever.
These do not compare to the comic book coins and medals in any way, shape or form.
The Flowing hair privy is the closest. How can you justify those selling for nearly 5 grand with your logic and these being dramatically overpriced at $750 with a slightly higher mintage?
Yes they are not for everyone, but they are struck for a small number so it doesn't matter.
2026 is a very small mintage, it is so small that the hated gold Spouse coins even sold that much. Regular gold commemoratives took ages to sell that low. The gold privy v75 1945 mintage sells for 25 grand.
This is what the mint made and they set the prices. They have a clever employee dreaming all this up who did their homework.
@NJCoin
I believe they are meant to induce suckers to jump in. And, even though I said I think it's impossible to overestimate the stupidity of the American public, I'm still having a difficult time wrapping my head around anyone actually buying at that price, this far out, with no visibility into whether they will be obtainable from the Mint at release. Moreover, I can't believe 2026 people will want them at $750, let alone anyone wanting them at $1300.
Do you even read what you write? There already is comparison to these, and yes there is precedent for this. Here is something else.
2026 times $750 = $1.5 million
Any silver eagle, take the low mintage Congratulations set.
60,000 times $170= $10.2 million
Even with the much higher prices the revenues are far lower for the silver Bell product itself.
At the silver bell revenue figure i doubt they make them again ever.
These do not compare to the comic book coins and medals in any way, shape or form.
The Flowing hair privy is the closest. How can you justify those selling for nearly 5 grand with your logic and these being dramatically overpriced at $750 with a slightly higher mintage?
Yes they are not for everyone, but they are struck for a small number so it doesn't matter.
2026 is a very small mintage, it is so small that the hated gold Spouse coins even sold that much. Regular gold commemoratives took ages to sell that low. The gold privy v75 1945 mintage sells for 25 grand.
This is what the mint made and they set the prices. They have a clever employee dreaming all this up who did their homework.
Yes, I read what I write. So much so that I am constantly editing to correct typos.
I don't understand what your revenue analysis is supposed to mean. I can also throw a bunch of numbers up on a post. So what? They could make 5 and try to sell them for $300,000 each. Doesn't mean they will get it.
These compare to the comic book coins because they are also overpriced for what they are, and consequently did not sell out, despite relatively low mintages.
These are so different from the FH privy lottery medals that I don't know where to start. Other than I seriously doubt they would have sold out if the Mint straight up offered them at the $5K they currently trade for.
At $750? No way to know. The Mint never before had the nerve to try anything like that. But, based on where 230 coins containing an ounce of gold sold for at auction that year, 1794 silver medals would have seemed expensive at $750, let alone $5K.
TBD whether people care as much about Liberty Bell paperweights as they do about FH privy medals in 2026. I sure don't.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
I agree , I like the design .... again I just can't see the price ?
Right. That's the entire problem. People like you who would be attracted to the product are not in a position to buy it, and those with the wherewithal to drop $20K on a gimmicky trinket will have no interest. Which is why it will land with a tremendous thud.
Instead of getting too cute by half, they should have just issued it with the usual mintages at the usual, already excessive pricing. I just don't think there is going to be a market for these.
They also could have made a clad version in a larger issuance for $100 or less. That might have had more appeal.
They also could have the silver version in a larger issuance for a far lower price. Precious metal value is not driving the pricing here, and you know it.
They are testing the waters to see if the market will tolerate very low, but not Stacks auction low, mintages at extremely elevated prices. And doing it with a one-off unique thing like this rather than messing with a variant of a popular series, like a privy on an AGE, because that would like make peoples' heads explode.
If this sells out, then yeah, look for infinite takes on it in the future. Otherwise, the market will have spoken, these will sit on the website unsold for years, and we won't see things like this anymore. After the DC debacle, I am reasonably confident we won't be seeing any more IP licensing deals going forward.
I didn't say it was. But they don't sell anything silver for under $100. The clad halves are $64, i believe.
This is an invoice from the mint from 5 months ago
Christ Almighty.
Irrelevant. That's their old pricing structure. Should I pull an invoice from 5 years ago? You'll love the pricing then. There are NO silver issues available for under $100 in the CURRENT pricing. You can't buy anything at old pricing schemes.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@HalfDime said:
My problem with these is the size only for the price, as it is like ordering a premium hamburger and they serve you a McD 99 cent cheapie. The mint also has a clever new employee who is dreaming all this stuff up, they should probably have left them to go wild with many more products for this year. According to the court filings they drag out planning and production like they are making NASA spacecraft.
I agree , I like the design .... again I just can't see the price ?
Right. That's the entire problem. People like you who would be attracted to the product are not in a position to buy it, and those with the wherewithal to drop $20K on a gimmicky trinket will have no interest. Which is why it will land with a tremendous thud.
Instead of getting too cute by half, they should have just issued it with the usual mintages at the usual, already excessive pricing. I just don't think there is going to be a market for these.
They also could have made a clad version in a larger issuance for $100 or less. That might have had more appeal.
They also could have the silver version in a larger issuance for a far lower price. Precious metal value is not driving the pricing here, and you know it.
They are testing the waters to see if the market will tolerate very low, but not Stacks auction low, mintages at extremely elevated prices. And doing it with a one-off unique thing like this rather than messing with a variant of a popular series, like a privy on an AGE, because that would like make peoples' heads explode.
If this sells out, then yeah, look for infinite takes on it in the future. Otherwise, the market will have spoken, these will sit on the website unsold for years, and we won't see things like this anymore. After the DC debacle, I am reasonably confident we won't be seeing any more IP licensing deals going forward.
I didn't say it was. But they don't sell anything silver for under $100. The clad halves are $64, i believe.
This is an invoice from the mint from 5 months ago
Yeah. Pre price increase. No more. He's not wrong about that.
But he's out in left field speculating that clad would be the only way to go to sell these at reasonable prices. Or that the price for clad would be any more reasonable than that for a half ounce of silver if they also offered 2026 in clad. And he misses the point that selling a lot more clad would totally destroy what it is they are trying to do with this test.
The idea here was not to be reasonable. It was to test just how unreasonable they could be with 3 similar items with a collective mintage of a little over 6K.
I'm not wrong about anything. I NEVER SAID ANY OF THOSE THINGS.
I didn't say that a cheap clad version fit with their marketing. I didn't say that clad was the only way to make a cheaper product. I never said 2026 in clad, in fact, i specifically said a larger issuance.
You keep putting words in my mouth and then telling me that YOUR words are wrong. Why would you do that other than to create an argument that you want to have?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Comments
Right. That's the entire problem. People like you who would be attracted to the product are not in a position to buy it, and those with the wherewithal to drop $20K on a gimmicky trinket will have no interest. Which is why it will land with a tremendous thud.
Instead of getting too cute by half, they should have just issued it with the usual mintages at the usual, already excessive pricing. I just don't think there is going to be a market for these.
So what would make you happy? A full ounce of silver?
That's really the deal breaker for you at $750? The missing thickness and $32 worth of silver?
The gold is already plenty big at one ounce, and the half ounce is almost the exact same size, just half as thick and half as expensive. And the silver is also the same size.
So again, is that really the problem, or just a nit to pick because you can't bring yourself to agree with those of us who just think it's crazy in general, not because it is a coin sized coin? It would be fine if it was a Mr. T sized trinket, but still priced at the same premium to spot?
No, it's not a 99 cent cheapie. It's just an artificial rarity that isn't really all that rare in relation to its pricing for what it is. Not one of 230 special FH gold coins, but one of 2026 trinkets, times 3, like a PAMP Hot Wheels or Barbie.
Those sell for around $200 each with similar mintages. True they are not official Mint products, but they are no more gimmicky. These are not coins. They are monetized tchotchkes. Attractive to some, but generally not to serious people with serious money to spend on coins.
The price is based on the artificial rarity. Not on the size, or the precious metal content. Clearly, given the wild premiums. TBD.
Yes , and is this a stepping stone for an increase for the ASE ? Who is to say the mint will not increase the mintage to whatever they feel like .... like in previous sales ?
Ehh. They have lately been doing whatever they want anyway. I don't see this as a stepping stone to anything. I think it's just a test to see what the market will tolerate.
No its not plenty big, at least you could read the specs on these. The are all the same length and width, only the thickness changes.
The 1 ounce gold and 1/2 ounce silver are nearly the same thickness. The 1/2 gold is half the thickness.
Wait until everyone gets them, they will not be saying "Wow are these big".
The good news is that they'll probably never make it through a Coinstar machine so you might get lucky and find one in the reject slot.
Correct. They won't be saying anything about the size, because there is nothing extraordinary about the size. It is typical.
What's extraordinary is the price and the mintage. But they are still misaligned for what the product is.
Making them bigger, and even more expensive, wouldn't fix that. The Mint apparently thinks it is entitled to the premium due to the mintage. But that presupposes demand that just won't be there for something like this at this premium. Increasing the size while keeping the premium the same wouldn't change that.
This is not a very low mintage proof ASE. It's not a very low mintage FH gold dollar.
It's a freaking Liberty Bell, priced like it's a V75 AGE. Different market. I just don't see the Barbie and Hot Wheels crowd jumping at this at these prices. And not because of the size.
I hear what you are saying .
They priced them bigger, so the Liberty Bells should have been bigger. At these prices I would expect twice as much silver and gold. Yes it would make all the difference to many. The ones who will be buying these regardless are not talking as they don't want the competition.
The silver goes dark first, the 1/2 ounce second, the one ounce gold last.
I think your right my friend..... It just won't be me .
Sorry, but, once again, we are going to have to agree to disagree on this. They priced them rarer, not bigger.
And people aren't going to buy them. Not because they aren't the size of a Mr. T medallion, but because people with $20K to drop on a coin aren't interested in crap like this.
This belongs on HSN, next to the Hot Wheels, Barbies, Stratocasters and Dan Carr overstrikes, because that's the market for something like this. But not at these prices or in this low quantity. That's why this is going to be a huge miss.
They think the gold is a V75 AGE. But it isn't.
And, even if it was, they are pricing it in such a way as to squeeze all the juice out of it to keep for themselves, and that's no way to let a market develop. That's a way to kill it before it has a chance to take off.
If they want to make a small handful of something and let Stack's conduct price discovery, that's one thing. But you can't do that with 2K of anything, times 3, so this is what they chose to do.
IMHO, stupid. Simply no reason to make so few, and then price them so high. You'll see, there will not be a market for these, just like there isn't for the superhero coins and medals.
The market for these is the 250th anniversary buyers, and that is huge. They have already sold out 300,000 mintage products for them.
This is only 2026 mintage (or 6078 total), which is a tiny fraction.
The 1 ounce gold is the hard one, that may last hours. The other two I doubt it.
It is a unique product only done once. The mint is acting like they had to reinvent the wheel to make these.
If I hit a good lottery ticket I will purchase the silver metal , not that I can't afford it now.....
other than that I will buy a bag of popcorn & see what transpires on July 16th
They also could have made a clad version in a larger issuance for $100 or less. That might have had more appeal.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I agree!
Although I'm still toying with buying the silver - full disclosure.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I don't think it'll make it to the reject slot. LOL. It's going to jam the disks.
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Yes, if they put $20,000 in gold in them, I would be in for $19,000
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
i'm not sure I would be so sure that "people with $20K to drop on a coin aren't interested in crap like this."
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Is it huge? The 250th anniversary products are not all super hot in the secondary market.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The silver one of course sells out first. I saw one completed EBay pre sale for that one at $1300. While the $19,000 gold OZ will take some time, I think it’s going to sellout as well. The Mint will learn from this sale, and will no doubt try something similar in the future.
(Edited after seeing one of the $1300 sales was ended and not sold. So far only one sold)
As an interesting comparison, consider the three lowest-priced examples of the 2009 UHR gold one ounce Double Eagle in PCGS MS70PL sold on ebay in the last 60 days. June 18th: sold at less than $5900 (BIN was $5900, but a "Best Offer" was accepted); May 2nd: sold at $5500; April 29th: sold at less than $6150 (BIN was $6150, but a "Best Offer" was accepted). Even using the original listed prices for the two that went cheaper with best offers, the total for all three was $17550. So the price of the Liberty Bell trinket at $19600 compares to three 2009 UHR double eagles in PCGS MS70PL with a little over $2000 left in your pocket. Make of it what you will, go with what pleases you.
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me. . . . . . .
It's all about demand. The 2009 UHR is not old news, its ancient news.
I'm not saying to go buy the Liberty Bell in Gold, thats a tough pill to swallow. If you HAD to have one in GOLD, I would pass on the 1/2 oz. It's like buying a Tudor when you want a Rolex.
However, i'm thinking the 1/2 oz Silver is the one to target (IF ANY). Thats probably the best (dare I say) flip opportunity; or, if you just want a Liberty Bell medal by the USM at the lowest entry point.
I am aware of two coins (and only two) ever made where there are 2026 or more survivors with each worth this price (or more), and that's assuming I'm right about the price since I do not care enough to confirm it. This would be the 1907 HR Saint and V75 AGE (which is close enough and I also consider exorbitantly overpriced). That's two out of 250,000+ for anyone who is counting.
Except that it's not even actually rare, because it's not a circulating coin, and not even viewed as a coin at all by most collectors who can afford it (or not). That's what I read on these NCLT threads all the time, comparing NCLT mintages to those of circulating coinage. It's an invalid comparison, because the coin market doesn't view the two equivalently virtually ever. Where it does view it at least somewhat equivalently, it's evident in the price, like the 95-W ASE and V75 AGE.
I've never read anyone claim proof Barber halves or later date Liberty Seated halves (which have much lower mintages and even fewer survivors) are rare (though someone probably did), because it's not a circulating coin either. Virtually none of these coin prices reflect the relative scarcity (or anywhere near it) vs. circulating coinage, because of the difference in how it's collected.
Rarity alone doesn't make anyone want it, other a financially motivated buyer who predominantly or entirely wants to sell it for more and who usually doesn't even actually understand the coin market, which is my description of those posting in these threads who exaggerate the importance of these NCLT mintages.
To those who are actually interested in collecting, as opposed to "investing", diversifying their portfolio, or liquidity, (practically) every coin ever made in this price range is more interesting as a collectible. If anyone wants it, with 2026, these "coins" will be available any day of the week.
The world isn't about to "run out" of it.
I believe with supportive pre sale marketing these will sell out pretty quickly, surprisingly quickly, as people will join the 250 bandwagon. I suffer severe fomo, and while I still haven't 100% ruled out going for a silver, I find the appearance cheap and gimmicky. If better designed I would definitely want/need (lol) one. Is there a chance they are floating this pricing to judge reaction and it may come down?, probably not, as I say, I do believe these will sell out in under an hour, except possibly the 1 oz gold.
I have zero interest in these.
When I first saw the price, I assumed that they were 3 or so oz. I couldn't believe it when I saw that they were 1 oz.
For the insane markup I'd think the silver would at least be one oz. It's not even a coin.
It will be interesting to see how these do.
We'll see, won't we? My point is that the 250th anniversary buyers for these are the same as for the Dan Carr overstrikes. And that's a very different market from the market for the FH gold privies. But they are pricing these for the latter, not the former. And making them in quantities that, albeit low, are far too high to support the prices they seek.
We'll see in a month, and I am not shy about putting my thoughts out here. If they sell out in an hour, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong. Just as I know you'll be the first to say "I told you so." I only hope I get an apology if you turn out to the be one who is wrong.
They also could have the silver version in a larger issuance for a far lower price. Precious metal value is not driving the pricing here, and you know it.
They are testing the waters to see if the market will tolerate very low, but not Stack's auction low, mintages at extremely elevated prices. And doing it with a one-off unique thing like this rather than messing with a variant of a popular series, like a privy on an AGE, because that would like make peoples' heads explode.
If this sells out, then yeah, look for infinite takes on it in the future. Otherwise, the market will have spoken, these will sit on the website unsold for years, and we won't see things like this anymore. After the DC debacle, I am reasonably confident we won't be seeing any more IP licensing deals going forward.
I have confidence you'll come to your senses when you don't see a buzz materialize pre-release.
Yes. That is the $64K Question. I was right about what would happen with the FH privies, so I'm doubling down on these.
They are interesting, but they are really not "coins," so I just don't see the people with the kind of money necessary to actually want to own these, rather than just dealing them, buying into the artificial rarity of what is nothing more than a curiosity, and paying the asking price, just because it is manufactured by the US Mint.
Lots of similar items, manufactured in much lower quantities, and containing much more intrinsic value, sell for far lower prices. These are not coins in the traditional sense, so I just don't think people are going to care that they were made by the Mint, or will be willing to assign the values to them that are routinely assigned to genuinely rare US coins.
TBD. I could be wrong. Won't be the first time.
NJ, I’m really just torn here. I can see you being 100% right, but I can also see it going the other way as part of a “greater fools” test. If I was to take a stab at any of these, it would strictly and only be to flip and run away from. In that case, I could end up stuck in it and have it relegated to a bottom corner of a safe somewhere, rarely seen and unloved.
At this point, I don’t love it and don’t want it in my collection. It looks inferior for its price point at this mintage level. Time will tell which way it goes. As much as it infuriates the masses, I find it an intriguing test of Mint decision-making and leadership.
In that case, please don't. Even if there is interest, at these prices the vast majority of the flip is already gone. You will do FAR better using $750 to buy 6 uncirculated sets to break up and have graded, or to just flip as is for whatever you can get.
Do you honestly see the half ounce silver Liberty Bell medal going for $1500, or $3K, in the secondary market? If so, please explain to me why 8300 of 25,000 2.5 ounce Superman medals sit unloved and unsold on the Mint website as we speak. Same with 4K out of 10K half ounce gold coins.
Also very low mintages, albeit admittedly not quite as low. Also very expensive, albeit not nearly as expensive.
Because this is different? I guess we'll see.
Some are salivating because the mintage is tantalizingly low, while ignoring the fact that the prices are eye wateringly high. They analogize to other things with low mintages selling for similar or higher premiums, while dismissing the fact that these are not those.
This is new and unique. Maybe a market develops for these at this mintage and price. Maybe not.
FWIW, I absolutely do not suffer from FOMO with this. As I have said repeatedly in the past, as a taxpayer and collector, I wish the US Mint nothing but success in all of its endeavors.
But this is a game I have no interest in playing. So I am perfectly content to sit on the sidelines, make my predictions, and then either take a victory lap or suffer a public shaming.
But I am not chasing artificial rarities that have nothing to do with the rest of my collection, or why I started collecting in the first place. Sure, if it was a guaranteed home run, I'd step up to the plate and accept the windfall, as I'm sure most of us would. But there are few guarantees in life, and 2,000 of anything at 5x to 23x very elevated intrinsic value are certainly not among them. Keep in mind that gold and silver are still historically very expensive, even after the recent pullback.
As a result, I don't want to have any part of encouraging the Mint to go in this direction. So I'm leaving that to others. I'm happy to sit in the cheap seats and just enjoy the show. Unless you have unlimited money to burn, I humbly suggest you do the same.
I didn't say it was. But they don't sell anything silver for under $100. The clad halves are $64, i believe.
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Coin vs medal is different.
This is both a SemiQ and a US Mint first.
I still think it could go either way.
All it takes is a little research
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
So what? Given that the price of this is in no way tied to the price of silver, $32 worth of silver is not the reason they priced it at $750. As a result, there is no reason to think that bringing it down to $0 worth of silver would significantly move the needle on the price.
Not sure whether eBay presales a month before release are actually "research" or just noise. Because we both know those can and will be canceled by one party or the other if the actual secondary market develops wildly differently than expected.
Notoriously by sellers who will fail to deliver if they either cannot obtain inventory, or if they can later sell for far more than the presale price. Not exactly sure how buyers get their money back if it's not returnable and it turns out they vastly overpaid. The mere fact that anyone would even consider entering into a one-sided seller option is yet another reason presales like this are garbage in terms of indicating anything other than buyer stupidity.
People blindly paying double issue price a month before release, with absolutely no knowledge regarding how easy or difficult they will be to buy from the Mint, does nothing for me other than reaffirm my belief that the level of stupidity of the American public can never be overestimated. Because they are locking in a loss if the price is too high, and guaranteeing nothing if the price turns out to be good.
I'm all set with this silver rendition of the bell , at a much lower price .
Again, you are making an inference that I did not make. Yes, they could have sold it for $3. And, yes, they COULD have priced it at any price between $0 and $1 million with silver. But if you simply use their normal 2026 pricing scheme, there is no way (in my humble opinion) they are going to price the silver at under $100. Soooooo...If I wanted a sub-$100 price, it would likely have to be clad. That was my sole suggestion. Sure, they COULD price a clad at $1000 also, but you are either intentionally ignoring the point or trying to make a different point. You may continue to pick this nit at your pleasure.
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You "observed" that you could not see these selling for $1500. They may or may not. HOWEVER, the FACT - no speculation involved - is that they are CURRENTLY selling for $1300 presale. So, your "observation" (hallucination?) that they could never sell for $1500 is close to already being false.
Again, to try and avoid further picking of nits, I am not saying they should sell for $1500, that they will sell for $1500, that they will (or won't) sell out in 5 minutes. I only offer this ACTUAL RESEARCH to indicate that they ARE CURRENTLY selling for $1300+ in pre-sales so it is not so outlandish that they sell for $1300+ upon release. There is more than one person willing to part with $1300 now. That's just a fact - no speculation, no future predictions, no nothing.
We had a nice run, but I see you're back to picking fights!
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And again, with all due respect, it's a pointless point. They are pricing a half ounce of silver at $750.
Have they ever done that before? No?
But they are going to price clad under $100, to stick to convention? You're just saying stuff to say stuff. It makes no sense.
If they wanted to hit a lower price point, they could have just hit in the first place. With or without silver.
Why would I "simply use their normal 2026 pricing scheme," only for clad, and only for you to make a pointless point?
This has nothing to do with silver, gold, clad, or "their normal 2026 pricing scheme." This is something else entirely. Why do you feel the need to fight it?
Actually, that's not a "fact," because I have no way to know whether or not the sales are real or shills to try to stimulate some FOMO stupidity. Neither do you.
All I know is eBay presales for something like this are nothing more than free seller options, if they are not shills. You know this too.
After all, why would anyone with more brains than money commit to buying something from someone at 2x the issue price, with no assurance that the person will be able or willing to deliver, and without knowing whether or not they will be able to secure one at the issue price? What you refer to as fact looks a lot more like fiction to me. Sorry.
But thanks for getting back to arguing for the sake of arguing. I was getting worried there for a bit that you were going soft on me. Please let me know if those $1300 eBay sales motivate you to go in for a few, absent any dealer buying interest before release.
And, again, it's apparently not so pointless, since you want to pick at it. LOL
My original "point" was simply the suggestion that: "They also could have made a clad version in a larger issuance for $100 or less. That might have had more appeal."
Let's examine my exact wording. They "COULD HAVE" - just an option that doesn't exist. "MADE A CLAD VERSION...FOR $100 OR LESS". And then I speculated that such an issuance "MIGHT" have had more appeal.
Despite your (continued) argument, my statement is inarguable. They could have made a clad version for $100 or less. And it may have had more appeal.
All your total BS about bullion prices and pricing of clads not being tethered is nothing but bloviating that is unrelated to my original statement. They absolutely COULD HAVE made a clad version for UNDER $100 and that might have had appeal.
Yes, I chose clad because I considered it impossible that they would offer the silver version for less than $100. But you actually agree with that point.
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There are multiple sales, not just one or two. Sure, they could ALL be fake. That is HIGHLY UNLIKELY.
And how the f&ck am I the one arguing for the sake of arguing? I posted a screenshot of sales on eBay and YOU DECIDED TO ARGUE THAT THEY MUST ALL BE FAKE. I think EVERYONE can see who is picking this fight.
But, I'm going to let it go.
You're right. You're always right.
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT EVERYTHING, ALWAYS.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Again, so what? They also could have a silver medal in greater quantity at a lower price.
They didn't, because that's not their game with this. This is an experiment to see if they could replicate what world mints do, at a multiple of the prices they charge, with gimmicks that aren't even really coins. TBD.
Any version at a more normal price would blow up the experiment, by satisfying demand from people who actually like it, and cannibalizing any FOMO demand for a $750 half ounce of silver or $20,000 ounce of gold.
The game here is not to have "appeal" at normal pricing. The game is to see if they can successfully market 10x what they sold at auction at near auction pricing. On something that is not part of an established series, and is not even round. A literal gold paperweight that is a coin in name only, because it has a denomination on it. TBD.
This is an invoice from the mint from 5 months ago
Sorry, but I believe it is as likely that they are all fake as only one is. Because it makes absolutely no sense to me that anyone would actually commit to spending that money without knowing whether they will be able to secure one from the Mint, or whether the seller will be able to secure one, or whether they will have any recourse, other than a refund, if the seller fails to deliver.
A guarantee to be able to buy at $1300, or the have the seller reimburse the difference between $1300 and the ultimate buy price if it's higher, would be stupid enough, because the buyer would be establishing a floor of almost 2x issue price with absolutely no visibility into the T+1 secondary market value. But this is not even that. It's just a free option to allow the buyer to get screwed if these don't sell out, and don't trade for at least 2x issue price when sellers actually have inventory to deliver.
In the real world, other than the eBay "fact" world you seem to live in, absolutely no one who knows anything about anything grants anyone one month financial Put options for free. But here, all of your "HIGHLY LIKELY" legitimate eBay sales transactions are actually nothing more than July 16, 2026, $1300 Puts exercisable at the seller's option. That the buyers prepaid $1300 for. In other words, valuable risk free options to the seller for free. Crazy.
So crazy, in fact, that I don't believe the sales are real. Any of them.
I believe they are meant to induce suckers to jump in. And, even though I said I think it's impossible to overestimate the stupidity of the American public, I'm still having a difficult time wrapping my head around anyone actually buying at that price, this far out, with no visibility into whether they will be obtainable from the Mint at release. Moreover, I can't believe 2026 people will want them at $750, let alone anyone wanting them at $1300.
Yeah. Pre price increase. No more. He's not wrong about that.
But he's out in left field speculating that clad would be the only way to go to sell these at reasonable prices. Or that the price for clad would be any more reasonable than that for a half ounce of silver if they also offered 2026 in clad. And he misses the point that selling a lot more clad would totally destroy what it is they are trying to do with this test.
The idea here was not to be reasonable. It was to test just how unreasonable they could be with 3 similar items with a collective mintage of a little over 6K.
Do you even read what you write? There already is comparison to these, and yes there is precedent for this. Here is something else.
2026 times $750 = $1.5 million
Any silver eagle, take the low mintage Congratulations set.
60,000 times $170= $10.2 million
Even with the much higher prices the revenues are far lower for the silver Bell product itself.
At the silver bell revenue figure i doubt they make them again ever.
These do not compare to the comic book coins and medals in any way, shape or form.
The Flowing hair privy is the closest. How can you justify those selling for nearly 5 grand with your logic and these being dramatically overpriced at $750 with a slightly higher mintage?
Yes they are not for everyone, but they are struck for a small number so it doesn't matter.
2026 is a very small mintage, it is so small that the hated gold Spouse coins even sold that much. Regular gold commemoratives took ages to sell that low. The gold privy v75 1945 mintage sells for 25 grand.
This is what the mint made and they set the prices. They have a clever employee dreaming all this up who did their homework.
Yes, I read what I write. So much so that I am constantly editing to correct typos.
I don't understand what your revenue analysis is supposed to mean. I can also throw a bunch of numbers up on a post. So what? They could make 5 and try to sell them for $300,000 each. Doesn't mean they will get it.
These compare to the comic book coins because they are also overpriced for what they are, and consequently did not sell out, despite relatively low mintages.
These are so different from the FH privy lottery medals that I don't know where to start. Other than I seriously doubt they would have sold out if the Mint straight up offered them at the $5K they currently trade for.
At $750? No way to know. The Mint never before had the nerve to try anything like that. But, based on where 230 coins containing an ounce of gold sold for at auction that year, 1794 silver medals would have seemed expensive at $750, let alone $5K.
TBD whether people care as much about Liberty Bell paperweights as they do about FH privy medals in 2026. I sure don't.
Christ Almighty.
Irrelevant. That's their old pricing structure. Should I pull an invoice from 5 years ago? You'll love the pricing then. There are NO silver issues available for under $100 in the CURRENT pricing. You can't buy anything at old pricing schemes.
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I'm not wrong about anything. I NEVER SAID ANY OF THOSE THINGS.
I didn't say that a cheap clad version fit with their marketing. I didn't say that clad was the only way to make a cheaper product. I never said 2026 in clad, in fact, i specifically said a larger issuance.
You keep putting words in my mouth and then telling me that YOUR words are wrong. Why would you do that other than to create an argument that you want to have?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.