The "What Not" craze
logger7
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I spoke to a grading company that said due to the "What Not" craze they're greatly expanding their facility with lots of new employees. This does not make a lot of sense to me. People bidding on things as if collectibles were the new tulip mania. Does anyone have a handle on this?
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I have never heard of the "what Not" craze. What is it?
It's an auction platform, sort of like eBay.
You "spoke to a grading company" and they said this? What grading company?
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Yes, I'm familiar with it. So are most of you. Lol. Some of those custom labels that people are occasionally asking about on this forum are due to the "Whatnot craze". It's been going on for more than a year.
Lots of mystery box action, also. Vault Box, Witter Bricks, etc.
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It's really not like ebay, although ebay started running more live auctions because of it. It's almost all live auctions on Whatnot with very little BIN or timed auctions. It's more like a social media sales platform. It drives me a little crazy, but people who love it, love it.
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I would think it's "not" the best visibility auction site for coins.
Everyone wants everything entombed in plastic with a number on it, so it seems. I remember thinking 11+ years ago it could happen to video games and then it did.
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This is one company that tried it with phenomenal results but said it was a lot of work: https://boardwalknumismatics.com/ The grader didn't want me to break the news fully, so hopefully there is a news site covering this.
Well let's think this out. Impossible to contact PCGS so that rules them out, NGC is better but not that much better with communications so they are out. That leaves ICG, ANACS, or Joe's basement graders, my money is on ANACS but the odds are about even between them and ICG.
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ICG seems to be making a resurgence lately. My money is on them. They are prime Whatnot fodder.
What Not craze?!
I hope not.
Coin livestreams such as Whatnot, eBay live, and others (if there are any others) attract the type of bidders that are fueled by fear of missing out on a coin and will pay however much they need to secure a coin they like. This results in extremely competitive bidding even on some of the most common coins. It seems like a cheat code to making money in the industry. I watched an eBay livestream once where the auctioneer was using greysheet prices to get bids on ICG PR70DCAM Ikes for $700+. Coupled with the ability to remove unwanted chat messages, the livestream format can be dangerous for new collectors who don’t know what to watch out for. Some may say this is just part of the “new wave” of collectors, but in my opinion, it isn’t the right direction for the hobby.
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We started live streaming on Whatnot almost 2 years ago, and recently on eBay live as well. I am all for anything that brings new collectors into the market, and I can tell you for certain, this has brought new collectors into the market. That being said, not all of the 'streamers' selling on these platforms actually have numismatic knowledge or ethics. We have sort of used it as a cross between a live auction and a coin show. It is much more work than it would appear to be on the outside looking in- a 5 hour stream is about 15 hours worth of actual work when you add in all of the preparation, set up, shipping, ect.
Justin Meunier
Boardwalk Numismatics
I did it for a few months. It is a lot of set up work and shipping, of course. But I have a friend who does it occasionally with zero prep. Lol. His auctions are a grab bag of stuff with prices all over the place but people seem to enjoy that also.
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I have viewed them a couple of times. The material seems to be all over the place.
I really don't like the idea of watching these zanny types of livestream auctions.
Im a little more focused on what I like to buy.
To each their own. If the buyers are being treated fairly and not overpaying then more power to them.
I don't think the collectors on this forum would have much interest but who am I to say. Just my opinion.
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Yeah, it's a whole different market. You have to have the patience to just wait and watch for things to come up and then purchase them with little or no research and planning. A good way for shops to blow out widget inventory and bullion it seems although some does go for under-market value, maybe enough sells for more than it should to offset any losses for the dealers. Not something I have the patience for and they almost never have inventory I'm interested in.
ICG is making a resurgence on whatnot. Lots of sellers with top pop coins in ICG holders quoting PCGS guide. Of course the buyers don’t pay those prices.
Selling an ICG 70 for $150 when the same coin graded by PCGS would be $1000 makes the buyers think they are getting a deal. Of course the same coin in a PC69 is $20.
Lots of shady marketing on the platform.
There are also lots of good honest sellers as well. But they can get lost in the crowd.
Full disclosure:
I sell on whatnot, but don’t bs or hype. My low auction prices reflect that. Haha.
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ICG has offered $5 custom label numerical grades for submissions for as little as 50 coin submissions for Whatnot resellers.
That's a good move for them.
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Sure is. ICG and the sellers can’t lose. That just leaves the buyers.
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In the long run this will likely expand the perception of this company being “less than” the others as many many more coins will come to market in these holders and collector sellers will find out the harsh reality in price disparity.
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Depends on which buyers. Classic US, probably, although ICG grading in the current period is pretty good. But the NCLT, silver widget people don't really get hurt. In fact, it could raise the visibility of ICG and help them in the long run. The Whatnot and Insta crowd is different. IMHO
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I’ve heard about it and know what it is, but have no interest in it. They must sell a lot of raw coins for it to impact the grading services. I think buying raw these days is extremely risky and is not something I would advocate.
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I watch WhatNot shows occasionally. Some are pretty amusing.
Seems to me that many dealers simply use WhatNot as a means to liquidate inventory they want to move FAST. I see many newbies overpaying for things, so it apparently works. To each his own.
Dave
I agree that in Classic U.S. ICG is fairly good right now. But I will still only buy them when viewed in hand without a discount. I have in the past purchased bulk graded groups of ICG coins online and even with a 1 grade discount struggled to get them sold.
The coins I'm seeing on on whatnot mostly are the US widgets that tend to sell for melt or just above in NGC/PCGS 67,68 etc. with large jumps in 69 or even 70. Silver IKES and other modern MS coins. The buyers are smart enough to not price the ICG like the PCGS coins, but the discount is somehere in between and when they decide to sell they will likely find they still overpaid by 3-4x.
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There's also this auction network: https://www.liveauctioneers.com/ I mentioned that an auction company in Massachusetts in a local shop's town had a better date GSA cc Morgan that sold through that network and they were familiar with the company with their low ball buying practices. The coins I saw selling on "live auctioneers" tend to go high.
Live auctions with product on display in background and in hand. There is a host (auctioneer) who talks about the item holds it up to the camera and on the side you see comments from people. You have set up your account with CC Card you can bid. You have a handle and you can message the auctioneer and he/she will usually respond real time. They do things live put some high value coins in mystery pouches and auction them for a low starting rate like $189. They sell 50 of them one by one and some lucky bidder will get an 89 cc morgan or a gold coin etc... They open the pouch after the sale real time so if you win you can see can what you got and so does everyone else. It's quite exciting but beware, no returns..
It's not just coins, it is all sorts of things..
I like watching the live auction format from time to time but do not buy or bid. To understand it I did set up an account and watched for about a week on and off to see how it works. Then bid a a coin or two... Kinda fun really.
Some dealers have won some nice coins on that platform for good prices..
Anyway Traderbea is a big one on Whatnot and they have PCGS making the inserts for them which is kinda weird.
They guys and gals that do it are doing quite well so far. They come to local shows, set up and buy up a lot of product from dealers.
It's quite brilliant because it ties into the social media aspect of life and you can bid anywhere from your smartphone..