Unopened Topps Wax and Rack Boxes from 1981-1985 BBCE FASC.
Yankees70
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One of my buddies recently started collecting cards again after being out of the hobby for close to 20 years. He decided to concentrate on purchasing unopened Wax and Rack boxes for the years 1981-1985, as those are the years he collected as a kid. He was unaware about the Baseball Card Exchange and I advised him to only purchase boxes from BBCE that are certified and from a sealed case.
Well after two months of collecting he was only able to find one box that was priced reasonably. There's ample product available on EBAY but 90% is not FASC. We both checked the Baseball Card Exchange website and Steve has no inventory available from these years that are FASC. It appears that these items are being put away by unopened collectors and the rare times they are for sale, the asking price is well above recent comps. Has anyone had recent success of purchasing these items at a fair price? I purchased some BBCE FASC from these years months ago and it seemed like there was a lot more available earlier in the year.
The last 3 main conventions I went to - Pasadena, Ontario, and Anaheim - had zero BBCE FASC from these years for sale and that included the Anaheim show where the Baseball Card Exchange was there selling and buying inventory.
Comments
Go to the National. Get there as early as possible when the first opportunity arises to line up at the BBCE setup. Then pray.
Greg Morris just listed an 1983 and 1985 Topps Wax Box FASC tonight on eBay with open bidding. Good luck to your buddy if he bids.
Steve had FASC wax cases of 1983, 1984 and 1985 Topps at the end of 2025. I haven’t seen any since. Those cases have really dried up!
I’ve posted in past years without knowing specifics about Steve’s intentions, but typically he withholds high demand stuff so he can be well stocked for the biggest event. A lot of great stuff surfaces at the National but also vanishes very quickly. If product you guys are used to seeing regularly suddenly ain’t available that might be the explanation.
BBCE national inventory will impress. What the price points will be is always a guess.
If you want to connect on a coupe specific boxes I’m happy to remark.
Thx
agree with above. BBCE will usually hold lots back for the National. then it will sell super fast!
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
The BBCE has dried up on a lot of its product since about last fall. It's true he is holding a lot for auctions and the National but in general it's hard to find a lot of stuff.. like even graded wax packs compared to just last year. The only place is various auctions. eBay has some stuff but crazy varied prices.
Agree with all of the above about going to the National, specifically to see BBCE's booth. Kurt with RVP also has FASC product regularly, so you might have him check them out as well. I will note that if you are someone who follows the pricing on unopened product from the 1980s, you would have observed that there has been a surge in the last several months. If your friend started trying to buy in the last 60 days, he couldn't have picked a worse time to do so. For example, 1985 Topps wax, which had been in the $400-500 range, is now pushing $800. 1984, which had been in the $300-350 range is now in the $500-600 range. Even stuff not as popular, like 1981 Topps, has seen a recent push upwards. You mention asking prices being "above recent comps." If you are looking at comps from the last 6 months, the selling price right now vs the selling price last December is completely and totally different. Prices have gone up significantly, and that's what you and your friend are seeing in real time. There is a lot of money being dumped into baseball cards right now, and unopened is just one of those market segments that are seeing significant upward momentum. What's hard to identify is whether this is another COVID type surge that will ease back off, or if this is finally a more permanent upward push that will take 40+ year old unopened product into a pricier level. All things considered, the fact that 1986 Topps wax is 40 years old but still available for less than $200 a box is remarkable. How cool is it for a 50 year old to be able to buy an unopened box of cards from his childhood to rip for less than a steak dinner for 2? Tell your friend not to despair; there is just tons and tons of this product out there. Finding it right now just takes patience and an open wallet.
I would also note this: there is, in my opinion, a weird fascination with FASC, especially with rack packs, that I think is ridiculous. With wax I understand it to a certain extent, but rack packs I just don't. If you understand math, the odds are very low of getting a FASC box that has inside of it a rack with a premier star on top. Buying a box that has known packs inside, specifically ones with stars on top, can sometimes be cheaper than a FASC box. I would encourage your friend, specifically with racks, to give some strong consideration to buying boxes with known star packs. The plus side to that is, you get to have the box open where you can see the individual packs and the stars on top.
Just my 2 cents.
kevin
Kevin - rack packs are easy to pick through. That would be issue with paying a lot for one, unless the stars are showing.
With cellos and racks i think part of the appeal for FASC (in addition to the box being original and not cherrypicked and the possibility of a key star on top) is the fact that the packs in a FASC box cannot be sequenced for certain stars within the packs.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
People know the sequences. Which with racks you can see all types of cards showing. You can even thumb through the entire pack and see every card and still leave it unopened. And knowing the sequence you dont need to use your thumbs. Thats a big reason FASC for racks is important.
Go buy 10 not from a sealed case 1981 FB Rack boxes. I bet you get under average J MS(Id wager 6-7) even though odds says 21.8 Joe Montanas in 10 Rack boxes.
I agree 100%. Which is why (and maybe I worded my comment terribly!) I was trying to say that if I had the choice between a rack box that was wrapped FASC but was (obviously) a blind purchase where I didn't know if there even were any star packs in there, and a non-wrapped box that had several star packs in it, I choose the box with known star packs every time. I like looking at my boxes, and the packs inside, which is why I prefer my boxes not to be wrapped at all. But that is simply a personal preference, and is not for everyone.
kevin
Tim,
I get that. But like you since I'm primarily an unopened collector, I'm not interested in what might or might not be sequenced inside the packs since I'm not going to open them. I'm more motivated by having a box of 24 or 36 factory wrapped packs that serve as a visible and physical reminder of how kids encountered these products 40+ years ago. The contents, as you often explain, are immaterial to me. I think FASC has its place, and I know there are certainly acolytes who worship at its altar. I'm just not one of them!
kevin
I'm really glad I completed the entire run of 1979–1992 baseball wax boxes (excluding OPC and Leaf, though I do have 1990 Leaf) five or six years ago. I bought everything through Steve. A lot of it is FASC, but there are also some boxes that aren't, and I'm perfectly fine with that.
The junk wax boxes almost certainly came from sealed cases, but they weren't wrapped. Ten years ago, Steve generally wasn't wrapping 1986–1992 boxes unless it was 1989 Upper Deck, the 1989 Fleer error box, or 1992 Bowman. Will that make a difference 20 years from now? I have no idea. Looking back, I do regret not asking him to wrap those boxes, because he gladly would have done it. He wrapped plenty of boxes for collectors during those BBCE case breaks 10–15 years ago.
As many have said, the National is the place to find some of the best material BBCE has to offer. When I bought my 1979 and 1980 boxes, Steve recognized me from my online orders and threw in a FASC box of 1983 Michigan. At the time, it was a $250–$300 box. Now it sits in my safe. LOL.
What is the point of hoarding unopened vs. opening it? investment?
For me, kinda. Centering is such a crap shoot. Back then set builders would open boxes and send in the mint cards. I just preferred to keep them sealed. With prices where they are now IMO it'd be stupid to open them.
I do pick up boxes of 89 Fleer when I find them and open one every so often. But it's been awhile for that too. I think I have 3 extras but have been sitting on them for a few years now waiting for a good night to open one.
I agree and share the same sentiment. But I do think that's primarily the reason for the FASC premiums (in addition to the scarcity of verifiable boxes straight from the case).
This is another reason why I love wax trays or as I like to call them FASC in miniature as the packs on the tray are untouched since being packaged by Topps and cannot be pressed for potential stars showing.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Absolutely. The rising value of authentic unopened vintage packs and boxes has been remarkable over the past 15-20 years.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
that makes sense. I was wondering if there's some aspect of keeping it in pristine form that unopened collectors prefer, which extends naturally to FASC. I am jealous of your patience.
Just another way of collecting. It's nostalgic. It's fun to look at. It's a challenge to acquire in its various packaging types. Some is more scarce than others. Some packaging types, even though the cards they hold are extremely plentiful, are themselves tough to find. You can do runs. Runs of wax, runs of cellos, runs of racks. You can try for every packaging type of a particular year. Or every manufacturer for a particular year. Stars on top. Stars on bottom. Cellos with every card from a particular team for that year on top. Racks with multiple HOFers on top. The possibilities are endless. The other fun thing, at least for me, is that you can have fun with it at lots of price points. Like 1975? Plan on $50k for a rack box. Like 1990? Go find every packaging variant (there are more than you think) and spend less than $500. You might have to pay $800 for a wax box of 1981 Topps, but a sealed box of 1981 Topps stickers is less than $100. Topps in the 1980s put out just tons of different fun stuff to collect. Mini leaders. Stickers. Coins. Jumbo sized cards. UK cards. Topps "Big" baseball. They did wax, and cello wax, and cellos, and racks, and grocery racks, and jumbo packs, and jumbo cellos etc. They did various display cases that can be extremely challenging to track down. Some people collect packs. Some collect boxes. Some collect cases. It also doesn't hurt that the supply is ever dwindling. Every breaker that rips a vintage pack or box lowers the supply. Overall, vintage unopened has done really well in terms of appreciation. So "investment" is probably in there somewhere, though as with all collectibles it's a dicey thing to bet your retirement on.
Hope that provides at least some answer.
kevin
I do enjoy seeing the collections of 'stars on top' cellos and racks. That is something I wish I found an appreciation for before it was too late.
me too, i have been purchasing quite a few lately.
Don't you think inflation and the weakening dollar might something to do with it? Generally within our system most everything goes up in price anyways if you go back in time far enough. So it stands to reason all product/services generally rise.
The problem is can wages keep up.
The true narrative of vintage unopened is there will always be more demand than supply. The more people want, the more values will rise.
That may be part of it but a lot of these boxes have increased in value by several hundred, even over 1000% over that span. I remember early 80s FASC wax boxes in group breaks at under $200.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I often wonder what % of collectors deal in the unopened market. Seems prices are getting out of reach for some.
Whatever that percentage may be, the collective intellect must be astounding.
I neglected to include investors as well with the collectors.
I think that is a really good question. I suspect it is an incredibly tiny % of the overall market, though it gets an outsized bit of attention. As anecdotal support for my thought that it is a very small %, consider the National. If you go hunting for vintage unopened (not modern shiny stuff, but pre-2000), you will be astonished at how very few tables have more than one or two isolated boxes of the stuff. There are plenty of dealers who might have one random box of 89 Fleer or 87 Topps, but the number of dealer tables that are dedicated to vintage unopened are probably less than 10. Definitely less than 20. Given the number of total tables, that is an anecdotal indicator that the bulk of buyers and sellers are focused on individual cards more than vintage unopened. The supply of vintage unopened, though in some cases still substantial, is also very, very tiny compared to the supply of available singles. That said, I think that the overall % of collectors that are truly unopened collectors is very small.
kevin
I wonder how much $$ in unopened this forum alone contains. Gotta be millions
For me, true vintage is when it is rare to find a complete unopened box….and no FASC is out there. True vintage is pre-1970….
Heh. Now add graded card collections, raw card collections, memorabilia, game used, etc. to the equation. That's quite a lot of millions.
I do prefer FASC. That said, I have sent rack boxes to be wrapped that have stars showing, so I wouldn't sell the non-FASC boxes short, in terms of the potential for stars showing.
I've been following and tracking the vintage unopened market on a daily basis for the past 25 years and there is no question in my mind that there are more buyers and more capital being poured into that part of the hobby than ever before. Whether those buyers would qualify as "unopened collectors" is a bit trickier, though. I think a lot of the money being spent now on unopened is with an eye towards ROI and a focus on the investment aspect of the product rather than a love and appreciation for unopened packs. I'm not saying that is necessarily a bad thing, either, but those buyers tend to cycle in and out of the hobby or change focus more easily than diehard unopened collectors. For now, it's an example of a rising tide lifting all boats but we'll see what the future holds. While I'd still classify unopened as a niche part of the overall hobby, the competition for desirable unopened product is fiercer now than it ever was.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
50 YEARS SHOULD BE THE VINTAGE SIGNAL - 1976. IMHO..
I def regret ripping and/or selling my mid size collection of BBCE unopened boxes.
Oh well!
Not me. I always enjoy ripping. Even on the boxes that suck. Nothing is better.
To be an authentic unopened collector you must be totally unattached to what's inside the box. 95% of my collection is unopened and that is only some Rickey Henderson and Nolan Ryan''s I had to pick up at card shows while looking for unopened materials. The wax pack cello or rack pack and box must mean something beyond getting the rare 10's that could be in there. It's a small niche but very fervent and annoying at times infiltrating regular card talk.
I've never opened any of the material I've picked up - I wouldn't call myself an unopened collector - but I can say - there's a certain allure to holding an unopened item in my hand akin to holding a really nice PSA 10 card.
Even though I also focus on FASC boxes, what is the logic of having a FASC premium for a wax box? I can understand the Cello and Rack boxes having big premiums, but why would there be a significant premium for a wax box? Is it about sequencing?
And pressing the wrappers for stars showing on front and/or back. Also, distribution of cards within the packs will be better for an original box vs a Frankenstein box with packs from all over (and typically better conditioned packs overall, too). For certain issues, that is more critical than others (80s Fleer basketball, 89 UD etc).
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Schrödinger's Cat. Always a fun way of viewing unopened.
I view it as the cards being buried alive. Can't you hear the screams!?
I hear them. They clamor and squirm. They’re shouting at me, “Hey! You’re not drinking again! Is there something wrong with you? How are we ever going to escape from these wrappers if you’re not drinking?! Hmmph!! 😠