No grey area here -very straightforward.
I have and always used human keystrokes to get my order in. I am successful 99% of the time.
V75 Gold - Flowing Hair Silvers - etc. all of the hard ones.
Sometimes was even lucky enough to get in on quantities when HHL was released on Day 2 of offerings.
But something has to be done about these BOTS. Some say CAPTCHA in the middle of the ordering process (or at the very end) could disrupt any automation. Maybe there are other ways as well.
It has now been raised to a point where typically a $5000 gold coin with a mintage in the mid 7000 range would be available for at least 7-10 minutes with the most demand.....now we are seeing sellouts in 2 minutes....absolutely nuts.
Good luck to everyone for the "Best of the Mint" series - another 2 minute sellout?
@jclovescoins said:
This looks like a neat coin. I will admit that I tried to buy one to flip, not keep. The process is ridiculous, though, and I feel worse and worse about the US Mint after each one of these new releases. I am on the site 10 minutes early, hit refresh right at noon and get placed in a waiting room that tells me only 1 minute wait, only to see if take 2.5 minutes and then none available. I do not believe that there are 6000 unique people logging in at 12 on the dot to spend $5400. In fact, we know that is not the case because certain people brag about getting 3 or getting 15, whatever. It's all using bots or circumventing the rules. Even though it was also my intention to flip, I feel bad for the collectors who wanted to buy one and were shut out due to this stupid process that the US Mint employs and the dishonest people getting 15 using bots. I think it's one thing to have multiple accounts and send to family members, but another to use bots that operate at record speed shutting everyone else out.
Ehh. I hate the bots as much as anyone else, but all you are saying is that "it's one thing" to do what you are comfortable with ("have multiple accounts and send to family members"), but another to do what benefits someone else. It's all cheating.
Or it's all legitimate.
OR, bots are not cheating and multiple accounts are.
People are never really consistent on their situational ethics.
Correct. They justify what they do, and vilify anything that prevents them from doing it.
That said, there is no denying that the bots take the common practice of a few friends and family accounts to a whole new level.
Or they don't. If I use a bit to buy my HHL of 1, there really shouldn't be a problem with that. I've just automated the purchase.
I understand. That's not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is that someone who thinks it's okay to bypass the HHL by using F&F to buy 5 has a big problem with someone using a bot to buy 15, because that bot might prevent them from getting their 5.
I have a problem with all of it. No one is using a bot to only buy 1. So your argument is interesting, but, like most of them, is only theoretical and tantamount to arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
I understand that. And I don't really disagree. I think you can consider both wrong or both not wrong. [I don't want to go all the way to right.]
And it's not as theoretical as you think. (Why did you have to go all the way to a borderline insult, when we were getting along so well?) I could use a script to automate ordering. Some people on here may already be doing it that way. You don't have to be using a commercial bot to purchase.
They are actually pretty cheap to rent, by the way. I don't know if you can just rent one for a week or month, though.
Because you are being professorial in arguing every angle in order to stimulate a debate. Bots are qualitatively different from manual ordering.
So the fact that buying 1 with a bot is technically in compliance with the HHL while using using F&F to manually buy 5 is not, that is not what bots are used for, and you know it. Bots are used by buying club members to buy hundreds, all for the beneficial ownership of the buying club. Not for the individual members obeying marching orders in return for $50 and airline miles.
As a result, you can argue all you want, but they are both bad, and one is far, far worse than the other.
Lol. My whole discussion on this thread started with my AGREEMENT with you.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@RAWcoin said:
Saw 1370 available this morning.
Gone in under a minute.
New stock? Did theUSM simply hold some back? Combined with Thursday that would bring the total close to the 7500. Were today's backorder status?
I think so. Showing "inStockDate": "Fri Aug 14 2026",
So that would indicate they didn't mint the total 7500 in the first run?
They might be minted, just need packaging. But pretty sure the ones ordered this morning are backordered, but we'll need someone who was able to get one to confirm. I doubt there will be another large quantity available on these, just a few randoms available at 7:30 for a few mornings, if any.
@RAWcoin said:
Saw 1370 available this morning.
Gone in under a minute.
New stock? Did theUSM simply hold some back? Combined with Thursday that would bring the total close to the 7500. Were today's backorder status?
I think so. Showing "inStockDate": "Fri Aug 14 2026",
So that would indicate they didn't mint the total 7500 in the first run?
They might be minted, just need packaging. But pretty sure the ones ordered this morning are backordered, but we'll need someone who was able to get one to confirm. I doubt there will be another large quantity available on these, just a few randoms available at 7:30 for a few mornings, if any.
Will be more informed when they release sales numbers this week. Have seen a few comments from folks who got one this morning. Can anyone here who got one chime in on backorder status, if any?
Mine left Texas at 1 am this morning and is due Monday with next day air shipping.
Just to add another possible reason why more Gold Coins showed up this morning:
One of my "family member's" coins had issues in the past because the shipping address was different from the billing address on the card being used (also a Chase card).
Yesterday, I didn't like seeing one order sitting in "Processing" all day while the others had already shipped, so I called the Mint. They verified that the order was being held up because of a flag from Chase and the payment wasn't going through. They recommended that I call Chase.
When I called Chase, they confirmed there was a hold on the card because it was a newer credit card (one of their hotel bonus signup cards) and the purchase amount was large. They cleared the fraud alert. I then called the Mint back, they reprocessed the payment, and it went through. Later that day, I could see the pending charge on Chase's website.
I was a little disappointed that neither Chase nor the Mint reached out to let me know there was a problem with the charge. I'm pretty sure that if I hadn't called to check on the order status, the coin would have eventually been returned to virtual stock and become available for someone else to pick up, either at today's 7:30 release or a future one.
Again, this is just one possible scenario.
Going forward, I think I'll use other card issuers for larger purchases. Chase already burned me once on one of these and was about to do it again with their fraud/security checks and lack of communication that there was an issue.
I've also got a few other things I'm planning to do to improve my chances in the future, but those would probably be pretty controversial to discuss here.
@jclovescoins said:
This looks like a neat coin. I will admit that I tried to buy one to flip, not keep. The process is ridiculous, though, and I feel worse and worse about the US Mint after each one of these new releases. I am on the site 10 minutes early, hit refresh right at noon and get placed in a waiting room that tells me only 1 minute wait, only to see if take 2.5 minutes and then none available. I do not believe that there are 6000 unique people logging in at 12 on the dot to spend $5400. In fact, we know that is not the case because certain people brag about getting 3 or getting 15, whatever. It's all using bots or circumventing the rules. Even though it was also my intention to flip, I feel bad for the collectors who wanted to buy one and were shut out due to this stupid process that the US Mint employs and the dishonest people getting 15 using bots. I think it's one thing to have multiple accounts and send to family members, but another to use bots that operate at record speed shutting everyone else out.
Ehh. I hate the bots as much as anyone else, but all you are saying is that "it's one thing" to do what you are comfortable with ("have multiple accounts and send to family members"), but another to do what benefits someone else. It's all cheating.
Or it's all legitimate.
OR, bots are not cheating and multiple accounts are.
People are never really consistent on their situational ethics.
Correct. They justify what they do, and vilify anything that prevents them from doing it.
That said, there is no denying that the bots take the common practice of a few friends and family accounts to a whole new level.
Or they don't. If I use a bit to buy my HHL of 1, there really shouldn't be a problem with that. I've just automated the purchase.
I understand. That's not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is that someone who thinks it's okay to bypass the HHL by using F&F to buy 5 has a big problem with someone using a bot to buy 15, because that bot might prevent them from getting their 5.
I have a problem with all of it. No one is using a bot to only buy 1. So your argument is interesting, but, like most of them, is only theoretical and tantamount to arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
I understand that. And I don't really disagree. I think you can consider both wrong or both not wrong. [I don't want to go all the way to right.]
And it's not as theoretical as you think. (Why did you have to go all the way to a borderline insult, when we were getting along so well?) I could use a script to automate ordering. Some people on here may already be doing it that way. You don't have to be using a commercial bot to purchase.
They are actually pretty cheap to rent, by the way. I don't know if you can just rent one for a week or month, though.
Because you are being professorial in arguing every angle in order to stimulate a debate. Bots are qualitatively different from manual ordering.
So the fact that buying 1 with a bot is technically in compliance with the HHL while using using F&F to manually buy 5 is not, that is not what bots are used for, and you know it. Bots are used by buying club members to buy hundreds, all for the beneficial ownership of the buying club. Not for the individual members obeying marching orders in return for $50 and airline miles.
As a result, you can argue all you want, but they are both bad, and one is far, far worse than the other.
I don't know that bots are bad. They are an advantage that you could employ if you wanted to.
There's really no difference between me using a bot to buy my 1 unit and me completing checkout manually other than the chance of sellout increases the longer it takes. If I'm on my game I can probably complete manual checkout in 15s. My elderly father would probably take over a minute. Is he forever disadvantaged because he can't compete with us "young folk?" Or should my father be able to use a technical advantage to overcome his slowness? When a bot is just used to perform manual actions automatically, I see no problem. That's like complaining that your neighbor gets to the store faster because he drives a car and you walk. You're making the choice not to use the car technology and compete the "old fashioned" way.
@jclovescoins said:
This looks like a neat coin. I will admit that I tried to buy one to flip, not keep. The process is ridiculous, though, and I feel worse and worse about the US Mint after each one of these new releases. I am on the site 10 minutes early, hit refresh right at noon and get placed in a waiting room that tells me only 1 minute wait, only to see if take 2.5 minutes and then none available. I do not believe that there are 6000 unique people logging in at 12 on the dot to spend $5400. In fact, we know that is not the case because certain people brag about getting 3 or getting 15, whatever. It's all using bots or circumventing the rules. Even though it was also my intention to flip, I feel bad for the collectors who wanted to buy one and were shut out due to this stupid process that the US Mint employs and the dishonest people getting 15 using bots. I think it's one thing to have multiple accounts and send to family members, but another to use bots that operate at record speed shutting everyone else out.
Ehh. I hate the bots as much as anyone else, but all you are saying is that "it's one thing" to do what you are comfortable with ("have multiple accounts and send to family members"), but another to do what benefits someone else. It's all cheating.
Or it's all legitimate.
OR, bots are not cheating and multiple accounts are.
People are never really consistent on their situational ethics.
Correct. They justify what they do, and vilify anything that prevents them from doing it.
That said, there is no denying that the bots take the common practice of a few friends and family accounts to a whole new level.
Or they don't. If I use a bit to buy my HHL of 1, there really shouldn't be a problem with that. I've just automated the purchase.
I understand. That's not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is that someone who thinks it's okay to bypass the HHL by using F&F to buy 5 has a big problem with someone using a bot to buy 15, because that bot might prevent them from getting their 5.
I have a problem with all of it. No one is using a bot to only buy 1. So your argument is interesting, but, like most of them, is only theoretical and tantamount to arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
I understand that. And I don't really disagree. I think you can consider both wrong or both not wrong. [I don't want to go all the way to right.]
And it's not as theoretical as you think. (Why did you have to go all the way to a borderline insult, when we were getting along so well?) I could use a script to automate ordering. Some people on here may already be doing it that way. You don't have to be using a commercial bot to purchase.
They are actually pretty cheap to rent, by the way. I don't know if you can just rent one for a week or month, though.
Because you are being professorial in arguing every angle in order to stimulate a debate. Bots are qualitatively different from manual ordering.
So the fact that buying 1 with a bot is technically in compliance with the HHL while using using F&F to manually buy 5 is not, that is not what bots are used for, and you know it. Bots are used by buying club members to buy hundreds, all for the beneficial ownership of the buying club. Not for the individual members obeying marching orders in return for $50 and airline miles.
As a result, you can argue all you want, but they are both bad, and one is far, far worse than the other.
I don't know that bots are bad. They are an advantage that you could employ if you wanted to.
There's really no difference between me using a bot to buy my 1 unit and me completing checkout manually other than the chance of sellout increases the longer it takes. If I'm on my game I can probably complete manual checkout in 15s. My elderly father would probably take over a minute. Is he forever disadvantaged because he can't compete with us "young folk?" Or should my father be able to use a technical advantage to overcome his slowness? When a bot is just used to perform manual actions automatically, I see no problem. That's like complaining that your neighbor gets to the store faster because he drives a car and you walk. You're making the choice not to use the car technology and compete the "old fashioned" way.
They are bad because they are prone to abuse, and because they box out people playing by the rules. Because most people don't use them to buy just one, when they can just as easily buy 15. Or 100. Or whatever. They are not designed for people to buy just one. They are designed for people to buy as many as they want.
@jclovescoins said:
This looks like a neat coin. I will admit that I tried to buy one to flip, not keep. The process is ridiculous, though, and I feel worse and worse about the US Mint after each one of these new releases. I am on the site 10 minutes early, hit refresh right at noon and get placed in a waiting room that tells me only 1 minute wait, only to see if take 2.5 minutes and then none available. I do not believe that there are 6000 unique people logging in at 12 on the dot to spend $5400. In fact, we know that is not the case because certain people brag about getting 3 or getting 15, whatever. It's all using bots or circumventing the rules. Even though it was also my intention to flip, I feel bad for the collectors who wanted to buy one and were shut out due to this stupid process that the US Mint employs and the dishonest people getting 15 using bots. I think it's one thing to have multiple accounts and send to family members, but another to use bots that operate at record speed shutting everyone else out.
Ehh. I hate the bots as much as anyone else, but all you are saying is that "it's one thing" to do what you are comfortable with ("have multiple accounts and send to family members"), but another to do what benefits someone else. It's all cheating.
Or it's all legitimate.
OR, bots are not cheating and multiple accounts are.
People are never really consistent on their situational ethics.
Correct. They justify what they do, and vilify anything that prevents them from doing it.
That said, there is no denying that the bots take the common practice of a few friends and family accounts to a whole new level.
Or they don't. If I use a bit to buy my HHL of 1, there really shouldn't be a problem with that. I've just automated the purchase.
I understand. That's not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is that someone who thinks it's okay to bypass the HHL by using F&F to buy 5 has a big problem with someone using a bot to buy 15, because that bot might prevent them from getting their 5.
I have a problem with all of it. No one is using a bot to only buy 1. So your argument is interesting, but, like most of them, is only theoretical and tantamount to arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
I understand that. And I don't really disagree. I think you can consider both wrong or both not wrong. [I don't want to go all the way to right.]
And it's not as theoretical as you think. (Why did you have to go all the way to a borderline insult, when we were getting along so well?) I could use a script to automate ordering. Some people on here may already be doing it that way. You don't have to be using a commercial bot to purchase.
They are actually pretty cheap to rent, by the way. I don't know if you can just rent one for a week or month, though.
Because you are being professorial in arguing every angle in order to stimulate a debate. Bots are qualitatively different from manual ordering.
So the fact that buying 1 with a bot is technically in compliance with the HHL while using using F&F to manually buy 5 is not, that is not what bots are used for, and you know it. Bots are used by buying club members to buy hundreds, all for the beneficial ownership of the buying club. Not for the individual members obeying marching orders in return for $50 and airline miles.
As a result, you can argue all you want, but they are both bad, and one is far, far worse than the other.
I don't know that bots are bad. They are an advantage that you could employ if you wanted to.
There's really no difference between me using a bot to buy my 1 unit and me completing checkout manually other than the chance of sellout increases the longer it takes. If I'm on my game I can probably complete manual checkout in 15s. My elderly father would probably take over a minute. Is he forever disadvantaged because he can't compete with us "young folk?" Or should my father be able to use a technical advantage to overcome his slowness? When a bot is just used to perform manual actions automatically, I see no problem. That's like complaining that your neighbor gets to the store faster because he drives a car and you walk. You're making the choice not to use the car technology and compete the "old fashioned" way.
The waiting room should actually eliminate the bot advantage.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@jclovescoins said:
This looks like a neat coin. I will admit that I tried to buy one to flip, not keep. The process is ridiculous, though, and I feel worse and worse about the US Mint after each one of these new releases. I am on the site 10 minutes early, hit refresh right at noon and get placed in a waiting room that tells me only 1 minute wait, only to see if take 2.5 minutes and then none available. I do not believe that there are 6000 unique people logging in at 12 on the dot to spend $5400. In fact, we know that is not the case because certain people brag about getting 3 or getting 15, whatever. It's all using bots or circumventing the rules. Even though it was also my intention to flip, I feel bad for the collectors who wanted to buy one and were shut out due to this stupid process that the US Mint employs and the dishonest people getting 15 using bots. I think it's one thing to have multiple accounts and send to family members, but another to use bots that operate at record speed shutting everyone else out.
Ehh. I hate the bots as much as anyone else, but all you are saying is that "it's one thing" to do what you are comfortable with ("have multiple accounts and send to family members"), but another to do what benefits someone else. It's all cheating.
Or it's all legitimate.
OR, bots are not cheating and multiple accounts are.
People are never really consistent on their situational ethics.
Correct. They justify what they do, and vilify anything that prevents them from doing it.
That said, there is no denying that the bots take the common practice of a few friends and family accounts to a whole new level.
Or they don't. If I use a bit to buy my HHL of 1, there really shouldn't be a problem with that. I've just automated the purchase.
I understand. That's not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is that someone who thinks it's okay to bypass the HHL by using F&F to buy 5 has a big problem with someone using a bot to buy 15, because that bot might prevent them from getting their 5.
I have a problem with all of it. No one is using a bot to only buy 1. So your argument is interesting, but, like most of them, is only theoretical and tantamount to arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
I understand that. And I don't really disagree. I think you can consider both wrong or both not wrong. [I don't want to go all the way to right.]
And it's not as theoretical as you think. (Why did you have to go all the way to a borderline insult, when we were getting along so well?) I could use a script to automate ordering. Some people on here may already be doing it that way. You don't have to be using a commercial bot to purchase.
They are actually pretty cheap to rent, by the way. I don't know if you can just rent one for a week or month, though.
Because you are being professorial in arguing every angle in order to stimulate a debate. Bots are qualitatively different from manual ordering.
So the fact that buying 1 with a bot is technically in compliance with the HHL while using using F&F to manually buy 5 is not, that is not what bots are used for, and you know it. Bots are used by buying club members to buy hundreds, all for the beneficial ownership of the buying club. Not for the individual members obeying marching orders in return for $50 and airline miles.
As a result, you can argue all you want, but they are both bad, and one is far, far worse than the other.
I don't know that bots are bad. They are an advantage that you could employ if you wanted to.
There's really no difference between me using a bot to buy my 1 unit and me completing checkout manually other than the chance of sellout increases the longer it takes. If I'm on my game I can probably complete manual checkout in 15s. My elderly father would probably take over a minute. Is he forever disadvantaged because he can't compete with us "young folk?" Or should my father be able to use a technical advantage to overcome his slowness? When a bot is just used to perform manual actions automatically, I see no problem. That's like complaining that your neighbor gets to the store faster because he drives a car and you walk. You're making the choice not to use the car technology and compete the "old fashioned" way.
They are bad because they are prone to abuse, and because they box out people playing by the rules. Because most people don't use them to buy just one, when they can just as easily buy 15. Or 100. Or whatever. They are not designed for people to buy just one. They are designed for people to buy as many as they want.
That's not necessarily true. They are designed to do whatever you want them to. It's a script that does whatever you design it to.
They may be designed just to handle staggered releases so you don't have to sit there all day.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@jclovescoins said:
This looks like a neat coin. I will admit that I tried to buy one to flip, not keep. The process is ridiculous, though, and I feel worse and worse about the US Mint after each one of these new releases. I am on the site 10 minutes early, hit refresh right at noon and get placed in a waiting room that tells me only 1 minute wait, only to see if take 2.5 minutes and then none available. I do not believe that there are 6000 unique people logging in at 12 on the dot to spend $5400. In fact, we know that is not the case because certain people brag about getting 3 or getting 15, whatever. It's all using bots or circumventing the rules. Even though it was also my intention to flip, I feel bad for the collectors who wanted to buy one and were shut out due to this stupid process that the US Mint employs and the dishonest people getting 15 using bots. I think it's one thing to have multiple accounts and send to family members, but another to use bots that operate at record speed shutting everyone else out.
Ehh. I hate the bots as much as anyone else, but all you are saying is that "it's one thing" to do what you are comfortable with ("have multiple accounts and send to family members"), but another to do what benefits someone else. It's all cheating.
Or it's all legitimate.
OR, bots are not cheating and multiple accounts are.
People are never really consistent on their situational ethics.
Correct. They justify what they do, and vilify anything that prevents them from doing it.
That said, there is no denying that the bots take the common practice of a few friends and family accounts to a whole new level.
Or they don't. If I use a bit to buy my HHL of 1, there really shouldn't be a problem with that. I've just automated the purchase.
I understand. That's not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is that someone who thinks it's okay to bypass the HHL by using F&F to buy 5 has a big problem with someone using a bot to buy 15, because that bot might prevent them from getting their 5.
I have a problem with all of it. No one is using a bot to only buy 1. So your argument is interesting, but, like most of them, is only theoretical and tantamount to arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
I understand that. And I don't really disagree. I think you can consider both wrong or both not wrong. [I don't want to go all the way to right.]
And it's not as theoretical as you think. (Why did you have to go all the way to a borderline insult, when we were getting along so well?) I could use a script to automate ordering. Some people on here may already be doing it that way. You don't have to be using a commercial bot to purchase.
They are actually pretty cheap to rent, by the way. I don't know if you can just rent one for a week or month, though.
Because you are being professorial in arguing every angle in order to stimulate a debate. Bots are qualitatively different from manual ordering.
So the fact that buying 1 with a bot is technically in compliance with the HHL while using using F&F to manually buy 5 is not, that is not what bots are used for, and you know it. Bots are used by buying club members to buy hundreds, all for the beneficial ownership of the buying club. Not for the individual members obeying marching orders in return for $50 and airline miles.
As a result, you can argue all you want, but they are both bad, and one is far, far worse than the other.
I don't know that bots are bad. They are an advantage that you could employ if you wanted to.
There's really no difference between me using a bot to buy my 1 unit and me completing checkout manually other than the chance of sellout increases the longer it takes. If I'm on my game I can probably complete manual checkout in 15s. My elderly father would probably take over a minute. Is he forever disadvantaged because he can't compete with us "young folk?" Or should my father be able to use a technical advantage to overcome his slowness? When a bot is just used to perform manual actions automatically, I see no problem. That's like complaining that your neighbor gets to the store faster because he drives a car and you walk. You're making the choice not to use the car technology and compete the "old fashioned" way.
They are bad because they are prone to abuse, and because they box out people playing by the rules. Because most people don't use them to buy just one, when they can just as easily buy 15. Or 100. Or whatever. They are not designed for people to buy just one. They are designed for people to buy as many as they want.
That's not necessarily true. They are designed to do whatever you want them to. It's a script that does whatever you design it to.
Again, argue for the sake of arguing. Someone has a tool that allows them to circumvent HHLs and buy a ton of "hot" MInt releases.
And they will restrain themselves by staying within the HHL, when everyone here who doesn't use them grabs as many as they can. Because, theoretically, you could be right, and the person with the bot might control themself. People go out of their way to use bots to only buy one when they can buy many.
Sure. Because "that's not necessarily true." Yes, as you point out time and time again, anything is potentially true, so let's always ignore the obvious and consider the highly unlikely.
@jclovescoins said:
This looks like a neat coin. I will admit that I tried to buy one to flip, not keep. The process is ridiculous, though, and I feel worse and worse about the US Mint after each one of these new releases. I am on the site 10 minutes early, hit refresh right at noon and get placed in a waiting room that tells me only 1 minute wait, only to see if take 2.5 minutes and then none available. I do not believe that there are 6000 unique people logging in at 12 on the dot to spend $5400. In fact, we know that is not the case because certain people brag about getting 3 or getting 15, whatever. It's all using bots or circumventing the rules. Even though it was also my intention to flip, I feel bad for the collectors who wanted to buy one and were shut out due to this stupid process that the US Mint employs and the dishonest people getting 15 using bots. I think it's one thing to have multiple accounts and send to family members, but another to use bots that operate at record speed shutting everyone else out.
Ehh. I hate the bots as much as anyone else, but all you are saying is that "it's one thing" to do what you are comfortable with ("have multiple accounts and send to family members"), but another to do what benefits someone else. It's all cheating.
Or it's all legitimate.
OR, bots are not cheating and multiple accounts are.
People are never really consistent on their situational ethics.
Correct. They justify what they do, and vilify anything that prevents them from doing it.
That said, there is no denying that the bots take the common practice of a few friends and family accounts to a whole new level.
Or they don't. If I use a bit to buy my HHL of 1, there really shouldn't be a problem with that. I've just automated the purchase.
I understand. That's not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is that someone who thinks it's okay to bypass the HHL by using F&F to buy 5 has a big problem with someone using a bot to buy 15, because that bot might prevent them from getting their 5.
I have a problem with all of it. No one is using a bot to only buy 1. So your argument is interesting, but, like most of them, is only theoretical and tantamount to arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
I understand that. And I don't really disagree. I think you can consider both wrong or both not wrong. [I don't want to go all the way to right.]
And it's not as theoretical as you think. (Why did you have to go all the way to a borderline insult, when we were getting along so well?) I could use a script to automate ordering. Some people on here may already be doing it that way. You don't have to be using a commercial bot to purchase.
They are actually pretty cheap to rent, by the way. I don't know if you can just rent one for a week or month, though.
Because you are being professorial in arguing every angle in order to stimulate a debate. Bots are qualitatively different from manual ordering.
So the fact that buying 1 with a bot is technically in compliance with the HHL while using using F&F to manually buy 5 is not, that is not what bots are used for, and you know it. Bots are used by buying club members to buy hundreds, all for the beneficial ownership of the buying club. Not for the individual members obeying marching orders in return for $50 and airline miles.
As a result, you can argue all you want, but they are both bad, and one is far, far worse than the other.
I don't know that bots are bad. They are an advantage that you could employ if you wanted to.
There's really no difference between me using a bot to buy my 1 unit and me completing checkout manually other than the chance of sellout increases the longer it takes. If I'm on my game I can probably complete manual checkout in 15s. My elderly father would probably take over a minute. Is he forever disadvantaged because he can't compete with us "young folk?" Or should my father be able to use a technical advantage to overcome his slowness? When a bot is just used to perform manual actions automatically, I see no problem. That's like complaining that your neighbor gets to the store faster because he drives a car and you walk. You're making the choice not to use the car technology and compete the "old fashioned" way.
The waiting room should actually eliminate the bot advantage.
Potentially. But only if it activates. Which it did not for most on Thursday.
@jclovescoins said:
This looks like a neat coin. I will admit that I tried to buy one to flip, not keep. The process is ridiculous, though, and I feel worse and worse about the US Mint after each one of these new releases. I am on the site 10 minutes early, hit refresh right at noon and get placed in a waiting room that tells me only 1 minute wait, only to see if take 2.5 minutes and then none available. I do not believe that there are 6000 unique people logging in at 12 on the dot to spend $5400. In fact, we know that is not the case because certain people brag about getting 3 or getting 15, whatever. It's all using bots or circumventing the rules. Even though it was also my intention to flip, I feel bad for the collectors who wanted to buy one and were shut out due to this stupid process that the US Mint employs and the dishonest people getting 15 using bots. I think it's one thing to have multiple accounts and send to family members, but another to use bots that operate at record speed shutting everyone else out.
Ehh. I hate the bots as much as anyone else, but all you are saying is that "it's one thing" to do what you are comfortable with ("have multiple accounts and send to family members"), but another to do what benefits someone else. It's all cheating.
Or it's all legitimate.
OR, bots are not cheating and multiple accounts are.
People are never really consistent on their situational ethics.
Correct. They justify what they do, and vilify anything that prevents them from doing it.
That said, there is no denying that the bots take the common practice of a few friends and family accounts to a whole new level.
Or they don't. If I use a bit to buy my HHL of 1, there really shouldn't be a problem with that. I've just automated the purchase.
I understand. That's not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is that someone who thinks it's okay to bypass the HHL by using F&F to buy 5 has a big problem with someone using a bot to buy 15, because that bot might prevent them from getting their 5.
I have a problem with all of it. No one is using a bot to only buy 1. So your argument is interesting, but, like most of them, is only theoretical and tantamount to arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
I understand that. And I don't really disagree. I think you can consider both wrong or both not wrong. [I don't want to go all the way to right.]
And it's not as theoretical as you think. (Why did you have to go all the way to a borderline insult, when we were getting along so well?) I could use a script to automate ordering. Some people on here may already be doing it that way. You don't have to be using a commercial bot to purchase.
They are actually pretty cheap to rent, by the way. I don't know if you can just rent one for a week or month, though.
Because you are being professorial in arguing every angle in order to stimulate a debate. Bots are qualitatively different from manual ordering.
So the fact that buying 1 with a bot is technically in compliance with the HHL while using using F&F to manually buy 5 is not, that is not what bots are used for, and you know it. Bots are used by buying club members to buy hundreds, all for the beneficial ownership of the buying club. Not for the individual members obeying marching orders in return for $50 and airline miles.
As a result, you can argue all you want, but they are both bad, and one is far, far worse than the other.
I don't know that bots are bad. They are an advantage that you could employ if you wanted to.
There's really no difference between me using a bot to buy my 1 unit and me completing checkout manually other than the chance of sellout increases the longer it takes. If I'm on my game I can probably complete manual checkout in 15s. My elderly father would probably take over a minute. Is he forever disadvantaged because he can't compete with us "young folk?" Or should my father be able to use a technical advantage to overcome his slowness? When a bot is just used to perform manual actions automatically, I see no problem. That's like complaining that your neighbor gets to the store faster because he drives a car and you walk. You're making the choice not to use the car technology and compete the "old fashioned" way.
The waiting room should actually eliminate the bot advantage.
Potentially. But only if it activates. Which it did not for most on Thursday.
True. Bot can't, by itself, violate the HHL either. FWIW
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@jclovescoins said:
This looks like a neat coin. I will admit that I tried to buy one to flip, not keep. The process is ridiculous, though, and I feel worse and worse about the US Mint after each one of these new releases. I am on the site 10 minutes early, hit refresh right at noon and get placed in a waiting room that tells me only 1 minute wait, only to see if take 2.5 minutes and then none available. I do not believe that there are 6000 unique people logging in at 12 on the dot to spend $5400. In fact, we know that is not the case because certain people brag about getting 3 or getting 15, whatever. It's all using bots or circumventing the rules. Even though it was also my intention to flip, I feel bad for the collectors who wanted to buy one and were shut out due to this stupid process that the US Mint employs and the dishonest people getting 15 using bots. I think it's one thing to have multiple accounts and send to family members, but another to use bots that operate at record speed shutting everyone else out.
Ehh. I hate the bots as much as anyone else, but all you are saying is that "it's one thing" to do what you are comfortable with ("have multiple accounts and send to family members"), but another to do what benefits someone else. It's all cheating.
Or it's all legitimate.
OR, bots are not cheating and multiple accounts are.
People are never really consistent on their situational ethics.
Correct. They justify what they do, and vilify anything that prevents them from doing it.
That said, there is no denying that the bots take the common practice of a few friends and family accounts to a whole new level.
Or they don't. If I use a bit to buy my HHL of 1, there really shouldn't be a problem with that. I've just automated the purchase.
I understand. That's not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is that someone who thinks it's okay to bypass the HHL by using F&F to buy 5 has a big problem with someone using a bot to buy 15, because that bot might prevent them from getting their 5.
I have a problem with all of it. No one is using a bot to only buy 1. So your argument is interesting, but, like most of them, is only theoretical and tantamount to arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
I understand that. And I don't really disagree. I think you can consider both wrong or both not wrong. [I don't want to go all the way to right.]
And it's not as theoretical as you think. (Why did you have to go all the way to a borderline insult, when we were getting along so well?) I could use a script to automate ordering. Some people on here may already be doing it that way. You don't have to be using a commercial bot to purchase.
They are actually pretty cheap to rent, by the way. I don't know if you can just rent one for a week or month, though.
Because you are being professorial in arguing every angle in order to stimulate a debate. Bots are qualitatively different from manual ordering.
So the fact that buying 1 with a bot is technically in compliance with the HHL while using using F&F to manually buy 5 is not, that is not what bots are used for, and you know it. Bots are used by buying club members to buy hundreds, all for the beneficial ownership of the buying club. Not for the individual members obeying marching orders in return for $50 and airline miles.
As a result, you can argue all you want, but they are both bad, and one is far, far worse than the other.
I don't know that bots are bad. They are an advantage that you could employ if you wanted to.
There's really no difference between me using a bot to buy my 1 unit and me completing checkout manually other than the chance of sellout increases the longer it takes. If I'm on my game I can probably complete manual checkout in 15s. My elderly father would probably take over a minute. Is he forever disadvantaged because he can't compete with us "young folk?" Or should my father be able to use a technical advantage to overcome his slowness? When a bot is just used to perform manual actions automatically, I see no problem. That's like complaining that your neighbor gets to the store faster because he drives a car and you walk. You're making the choice not to use the car technology and compete the "old fashioned" way.
The waiting room should actually eliminate the bot advantage.
Potentially. But only if it activates. Which it did not for most on Thursday.
True. Bot can't, by itself, violate the HHL either. FWIW
I'm going to ignore this. Someone posted a screenshot of 15 charges in less than 2 minutes.
The bot enabled the user to violate the HHL. Yes, guns don't kill people. I get it. Except, people can't seriously injure or kill other people with tiny pieces of lead without a gun.
@jclovescoins said:
This looks like a neat coin. I will admit that I tried to buy one to flip, not keep. The process is ridiculous, though, and I feel worse and worse about the US Mint after each one of these new releases. I am on the site 10 minutes early, hit refresh right at noon and get placed in a waiting room that tells me only 1 minute wait, only to see if take 2.5 minutes and then none available. I do not believe that there are 6000 unique people logging in at 12 on the dot to spend $5400. In fact, we know that is not the case because certain people brag about getting 3 or getting 15, whatever. It's all using bots or circumventing the rules. Even though it was also my intention to flip, I feel bad for the collectors who wanted to buy one and were shut out due to this stupid process that the US Mint employs and the dishonest people getting 15 using bots. I think it's one thing to have multiple accounts and send to family members, but another to use bots that operate at record speed shutting everyone else out.
Ehh. I hate the bots as much as anyone else, but all you are saying is that "it's one thing" to do what you are comfortable with ("have multiple accounts and send to family members"), but another to do what benefits someone else. It's all cheating.
Or it's all legitimate.
OR, bots are not cheating and multiple accounts are.
People are never really consistent on their situational ethics.
Correct. They justify what they do, and vilify anything that prevents them from doing it.
That said, there is no denying that the bots take the common practice of a few friends and family accounts to a whole new level.
Or they don't. If I use a bit to buy my HHL of 1, there really shouldn't be a problem with that. I've just automated the purchase.
I understand. That's not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is that someone who thinks it's okay to bypass the HHL by using F&F to buy 5 has a big problem with someone using a bot to buy 15, because that bot might prevent them from getting their 5.
I have a problem with all of it. No one is using a bot to only buy 1. So your argument is interesting, but, like most of them, is only theoretical and tantamount to arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
I understand that. And I don't really disagree. I think you can consider both wrong or both not wrong. [I don't want to go all the way to right.]
And it's not as theoretical as you think. (Why did you have to go all the way to a borderline insult, when we were getting along so well?) I could use a script to automate ordering. Some people on here may already be doing it that way. You don't have to be using a commercial bot to purchase.
They are actually pretty cheap to rent, by the way. I don't know if you can just rent one for a week or month, though.
Because you are being professorial in arguing every angle in order to stimulate a debate. Bots are qualitatively different from manual ordering.
So the fact that buying 1 with a bot is technically in compliance with the HHL while using using F&F to manually buy 5 is not, that is not what bots are used for, and you know it. Bots are used by buying club members to buy hundreds, all for the beneficial ownership of the buying club. Not for the individual members obeying marching orders in return for $50 and airline miles.
As a result, you can argue all you want, but they are both bad, and one is far, far worse than the other.
I don't know that bots are bad. They are an advantage that you could employ if you wanted to.
There's really no difference between me using a bot to buy my 1 unit and me completing checkout manually other than the chance of sellout increases the longer it takes. If I'm on my game I can probably complete manual checkout in 15s. My elderly father would probably take over a minute. Is he forever disadvantaged because he can't compete with us "young folk?" Or should my father be able to use a technical advantage to overcome his slowness? When a bot is just used to perform manual actions automatically, I see no problem. That's like complaining that your neighbor gets to the store faster because he drives a car and you walk. You're making the choice not to use the car technology and compete the "old fashioned" way.
They are bad because they are prone to abuse, and because they box out people playing by the rules. Because most people don't use them to buy just one, when they can just as easily buy 15. Or 100. Or whatever. They are not designed for people to buy just one. They are designed for people to buy as many as they want.
That's not necessarily true. They are designed to do whatever you want them to. It's a script that does whatever you design it to.
Again, argue for the sake of arguing. Someone has a tool that allows them to circumvent HHLs and buy a ton of "hot" MInt releases.
And they will restrain themselves by staying within the HHL, when everyone here who doesn't use them grabs as many as they can. Because, theoretically, you could be right, and the person with the bot might control themself. People go out of their way to use bots to only buy one when they can buy many.
Sure. Because "that's not necessarily true." Yes, as you point out time and time again, anything is potentially true, so let's always ignore the obvious and consider the highly unlikely.
Sigh...
Please explain for the audience how a bot circumvents the HHL.
By itself, it doesn't.
It's also not "arguing for arguing's sake". You've jumped in a partial understanding of bots and are running with it. Bots are used to just check for availability and buy. They are just a script to automate tasks so you don't have to. They can't buy more than the HHL unless they have multiple cards and addresses.
Bots will absolutely trounce humans at finding random dumps and buying, especially those early morning dumps after the HHL is lifted. Their advantafe is less obvious when the waiting room is on and the HHL is in place.
@jclovescoins said:
This looks like a neat coin. I will admit that I tried to buy one to flip, not keep. The process is ridiculous, though, and I feel worse and worse about the US Mint after each one of these new releases. I am on the site 10 minutes early, hit refresh right at noon and get placed in a waiting room that tells me only 1 minute wait, only to see if take 2.5 minutes and then none available. I do not believe that there are 6000 unique people logging in at 12 on the dot to spend $5400. In fact, we know that is not the case because certain people brag about getting 3 or getting 15, whatever. It's all using bots or circumventing the rules. Even though it was also my intention to flip, I feel bad for the collectors who wanted to buy one and were shut out due to this stupid process that the US Mint employs and the dishonest people getting 15 using bots. I think it's one thing to have multiple accounts and send to family members, but another to use bots that operate at record speed shutting everyone else out.
Ehh. I hate the bots as much as anyone else, but all you are saying is that "it's one thing" to do what you are comfortable with ("have multiple accounts and send to family members"), but another to do what benefits someone else. It's all cheating.
Or it's all legitimate.
OR, bots are not cheating and multiple accounts are.
People are never really consistent on their situational ethics.
Correct. They justify what they do, and vilify anything that prevents them from doing it.
That said, there is no denying that the bots take the common practice of a few friends and family accounts to a whole new level.
Or they don't. If I use a bit to buy my HHL of 1, there really shouldn't be a problem with that. I've just automated the purchase.
I understand. That's not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is that someone who thinks it's okay to bypass the HHL by using F&F to buy 5 has a big problem with someone using a bot to buy 15, because that bot might prevent them from getting their 5.
I have a problem with all of it. No one is using a bot to only buy 1. So your argument is interesting, but, like most of them, is only theoretical and tantamount to arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
I understand that. And I don't really disagree. I think you can consider both wrong or both not wrong. [I don't want to go all the way to right.]
And it's not as theoretical as you think. (Why did you have to go all the way to a borderline insult, when we were getting along so well?) I could use a script to automate ordering. Some people on here may already be doing it that way. You don't have to be using a commercial bot to purchase.
They are actually pretty cheap to rent, by the way. I don't know if you can just rent one for a week or month, though.
Because you are being professorial in arguing every angle in order to stimulate a debate. Bots are qualitatively different from manual ordering.
So the fact that buying 1 with a bot is technically in compliance with the HHL while using using F&F to manually buy 5 is not, that is not what bots are used for, and you know it. Bots are used by buying club members to buy hundreds, all for the beneficial ownership of the buying club. Not for the individual members obeying marching orders in return for $50 and airline miles.
As a result, you can argue all you want, but they are both bad, and one is far, far worse than the other.
I don't know that bots are bad. They are an advantage that you could employ if you wanted to.
There's really no difference between me using a bot to buy my 1 unit and me completing checkout manually other than the chance of sellout increases the longer it takes. If I'm on my game I can probably complete manual checkout in 15s. My elderly father would probably take over a minute. Is he forever disadvantaged because he can't compete with us "young folk?" Or should my father be able to use a technical advantage to overcome his slowness? When a bot is just used to perform manual actions automatically, I see no problem. That's like complaining that your neighbor gets to the store faster because he drives a car and you walk. You're making the choice not to use the car technology and compete the "old fashioned" way.
The waiting room should actually eliminate the bot advantage.
Potentially. But only if it activates. Which it did not for most on Thursday.
True. Bot can't, by itself, violate the HHL either. FWIW
I'm going to ignore this. Someone posted a screenshot of 15 charges in less than 2 minutes.
The bot enabled the user to violate the HHL. Yes, guns don't kill people. I get it. Except, people can't seriously injure or kill other people with tiny pieces of lead without a gun.
Ignoring this SHOULD mean not responding. Lol. I guess you're just posting for posting's sake.
How many of those 15 were canceled due to HHL violations.
I look forward to your ignoring this with a response.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@originalsandman said:
Was able to grab one and put in cart, but still wasn’t fast enough to complete.
Hmmm, would it behoove the Mint to secure items in bag until final check out so that running inventory does not adversely affect the desired purchase or would this give an advantage to the so called 'bots' and sundry schemers??
In other words, once bagged, it is yours regardless of background noise. Maybe just Quixotic of a thought....
@originalsandman said:
Was able to grab one and put in cart, but still wasn’t fast enough to complete.
Hmmm, would it behoove the Mint to secure items in bag until final check out so that running inventory does not adversely affect the desired purchase or would this give an advantage to the so called 'bots' and sundry schemers??
In other words, once bagged, it is yours regardless of background noise. Maybe just Quixotic of a thought....
I don't know that bots are bad. They are an advantage that you could employ if you wanted to.
There's really no difference between me using a bot to buy my 1 unit and me completing checkout manually other than the chance of sellout increases the longer it takes. If I'm on my game I can probably complete manual checkout in 15s. My elderly father would probably take over a minute. Is he forever disadvantaged because he can't compete with us "young folk?" Or should my father be able to use a technical advantage to overcome his slowness? When a bot is just used to perform manual actions automatically, I see no problem. That's like complaining that your neighbor gets to the store faster because he drives a car and you walk. You're making the choice not to use the car technology and compete the "old fashioned" way.
There is a problem. You are using automated means to gain the upper hand and checkout faster - you are not using keystrokes like everyone else. It is an unfair advantage.
The car analogy makes no sense. Why not say pumping steroids into professional athletes is fine too? Then they can perform better. Anyone can do it, right?
Wrong.
The USM TOS expressly forbids using BOTS or any automation to place orders. Period.
@originalsandman said:
Was able to grab one and put in cart, but still wasn’t fast enough to complete.
Hmmm, would it behoove the Mint to secure items in bag until final check out so that running inventory does not adversely affect the desired purchase or would this give an advantage to the so called 'bots' and sundry schemers??
In other words, once bagged, it is yours regardless of background noise. Maybe just Quixotic of a thought....
No. No one does this, because people abandoning items in bags would be a problem. With just about all e-commerce sites, the bag doesn't mean anything. Your items are removed from inventory when a transaction is completed and you receive a confirmation number. Not before.
They could put you on a timer once in a bag, like Ticketmaster does, but that's a PITA, and would lead to items being unavailable for some while others who come later would be able to buy, once the timer times out. Ticketmaster does it because you are buying a specific seat, not one of many that are identical, and it would be very frustrating to have to repeat the process every time someone else grabs your seat. Or to just stick you in a seat you didn't select.
"the U.S. Mint strictly prohibits the use of automated purchasing software, technological solutions, and web robots (bots) by both retail and bulk customers"
"the U.S. Mint strictly prohibits the use of automated purchasing software, technological solutions, and web robots (bots) by both retail and bulk customers"
Can you point to the source for this quotation? I'm having trouble tracking down this exact phrase. Thanks!
@originalsandman said:
Was able to grab one and put in cart, but still wasn’t fast enough to complete.
Hmmm, would it behoove the Mint to secure items in bag until final check out so that running inventory does not adversely affect the desired purchase or would this give an advantage to the so called 'bots' and sundry schemers??
In other words, once bagged, it is yours regardless of background noise. Maybe just Quixotic of a thought....
No, as other have said they want to sell items to the first person to pay for them, not have someone put it in their bag, holding up inventory. They sell commodities that are all identical, not one-of-a-kind tickets like Ticketmaster.
I don't know that bots are bad. They are an advantage that you could employ if you wanted to.
There's really no difference between me using a bot to buy my 1 unit and me completing checkout manually other than the chance of sellout increases the longer it takes. If I'm on my game I can probably complete manual checkout in 15s. My elderly father would probably take over a minute. Is he forever disadvantaged because he can't compete with us "young folk?" Or should my father be able to use a technical advantage to overcome his slowness? When a bot is just used to perform manual actions automatically, I see no problem. That's like complaining that your neighbor gets to the store faster because he drives a car and you walk. You're making the choice not to use the car technology and compete the "old fashioned" way.
There is a problem. You are using automated means to gain the upper hand and checkout faster - you are not using keystrokes like everyone else. It is an unfair advantage.
Is it really unfair when you have the option to use a bot also?
The car analogy makes no sense. Why not say pumping steroids into professional athletes is fine too? Then they can perform better. Anyone can do it, right?
Sure the car analogy makes perfect sense. You can make your purchase the old fashioned way (manually) or you can use a bot. Why the hate and disdain for those opting to use technology that you haven't bothered to obtain or use? A farmer can chose to pick his corn one at a time or use a tractor. If the farmer chooses not to use a tractor that doesn't mean every with a tractor has an unfair advantage in the corn marketplace.
Wrong.
The USM TOS expressly forbids using BOTS or any automation to place orders. Period.
Please provide a specific link and citation. The only prohibition I found against it was for participants in the ABPP and even then the only thing that is prohibited is violating the HHL, not the use of automation itself.
"the U.S. Mint strictly prohibits the use of automated purchasing software, technological solutions, and web robots (bots) by both retail and bulk customers"
Can you point to the source for this quotation? I'm having trouble tracking down this exact phrase. Thanks!
I was going to ask the same thing as I can't find it. There are similar terms in the ABPP agreement, but I'm not sure the bot users are participating in that program and again, the prohibition is against violating the HHL, not the use of bots.
@jclovescoins said:
This looks like a neat coin. I will admit that I tried to buy one to flip, not keep. The process is ridiculous, though, and I feel worse and worse about the US Mint after each one of these new releases. I am on the site 10 minutes early, hit refresh right at noon and get placed in a waiting room that tells me only 1 minute wait, only to see if take 2.5 minutes and then none available. I do not believe that there are 6000 unique people logging in at 12 on the dot to spend $5400. In fact, we know that is not the case because certain people brag about getting 3 or getting 15, whatever. It's all using bots or circumventing the rules. Even though it was also my intention to flip, I feel bad for the collectors who wanted to buy one and were shut out due to this stupid process that the US Mint employs and the dishonest people getting 15 using bots. I think it's one thing to have multiple accounts and send to family members, but another to use bots that operate at record speed shutting everyone else out.
Ehh. I hate the bots as much as anyone else, but all you are saying is that "it's one thing" to do what you are comfortable with ("have multiple accounts and send to family members"), but another to do what benefits someone else. It's all cheating.
Or it's all legitimate.
OR, bots are not cheating and multiple accounts are.
People are never really consistent on their situational ethics.
Correct. They justify what they do, and vilify anything that prevents them from doing it.
That said, there is no denying that the bots take the common practice of a few friends and family accounts to a whole new level.
Or they don't. If I use a bit to buy my HHL of 1, there really shouldn't be a problem with that. I've just automated the purchase.
I understand. That's not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is that someone who thinks it's okay to bypass the HHL by using F&F to buy 5 has a big problem with someone using a bot to buy 15, because that bot might prevent them from getting their 5.
I have a problem with all of it. No one is using a bot to only buy 1. So your argument is interesting, but, like most of them, is only theoretical and tantamount to arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
I understand that. And I don't really disagree. I think you can consider both wrong or both not wrong. [I don't want to go all the way to right.]
And it's not as theoretical as you think. (Why did you have to go all the way to a borderline insult, when we were getting along so well?) I could use a script to automate ordering. Some people on here may already be doing it that way. You don't have to be using a commercial bot to purchase.
They are actually pretty cheap to rent, by the way. I don't know if you can just rent one for a week or month, though.
Because you are being professorial in arguing every angle in order to stimulate a debate. Bots are qualitatively different from manual ordering.
So the fact that buying 1 with a bot is technically in compliance with the HHL while using using F&F to manually buy 5 is not, that is not what bots are used for, and you know it. Bots are used by buying club members to buy hundreds, all for the beneficial ownership of the buying club. Not for the individual members obeying marching orders in return for $50 and airline miles.
As a result, you can argue all you want, but they are both bad, and one is far, far worse than the other.
I don't know that bots are bad. They are an advantage that you could employ if you wanted to.
There's really no difference between me using a bot to buy my 1 unit and me completing checkout manually other than the chance of sellout increases the longer it takes. If I'm on my game I can probably complete manual checkout in 15s. My elderly father would probably take over a minute. Is he forever disadvantaged because he can't compete with us "young folk?" Or should my father be able to use a technical advantage to overcome his slowness? When a bot is just used to perform manual actions automatically, I see no problem. That's like complaining that your neighbor gets to the store faster because he drives a car and you walk. You're making the choice not to use the car technology and compete the "old fashioned" way.
The waiting room should actually eliminate the bot advantage.
Potentially. But only if it activates. Which it did not for most on Thursday.
True. Bot can't, by itself, violate the HHL either. FWIW
I'm going to ignore this. Someone posted a screenshot of 15 charges in less than 2 minutes.
And we don't know the details either. Did they photoshop that graphic? Was it all on one account? Did they use 15 accounts and 15 households? did they or will they be cancelled? We all know you like to fill in the holes with your imagination and consider it fact. But the reality is we don't have any of those answers.
My order is still processing. I paid for two the UPS shipping. Nothing has changed since I ordered it still shows processing. Does anybody have a similar situation with the two day shipping?
@originalsandman said:
Was able to grab one and put in cart, but still wasn’t fast enough to complete.
Hmmm, would it behoove the Mint to secure items in bag until final check out so that running inventory does not adversely affect the desired purchase or would this give an advantage to the so called 'bots' and sundry schemers??
In other words, once bagged, it is yours regardless of background noise. Maybe just Quixotic of a thought....
And what is to keep someone from failing to complete the purchase?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@Mk1995 said:
My order is still processing. I paid for two the UPS shipping. Nothing has changed since I ordered it still shows processing. Does anybody have a similar situation with the two day shipping?
2 day shipping is the method of delivery not the time it takes to leave the Mint. Could take days or weeks to be shipped.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
"the U.S. Mint strictly prohibits the use of automated purchasing software, technological solutions, and web robots (bots) by both retail and bulk customers"
Can you point to the source for this quotation? I'm having trouble tracking down this exact phrase. Thanks!
It's in the bulk buyers program. He's (accidentally?) quoting it incorrectly. There is no mention of the word "bot" or similar in the Terms of Service.
@originalsandman said:
Was able to grab one and put in cart, but still wasn’t fast enough to complete.
Hmmm, would it behoove the Mint to secure items in bag until final check out so that running inventory does not adversely affect the desired purchase or would this give an advantage to the so called 'bots' and sundry schemers??
In other words, once bagged, it is yours regardless of background noise. Maybe just Quixotic of a thought....
And what is to keep someone from failing to complete the purchase?
A 10- or 15-minute cart timer seems like a practical solution. It would give collectors enough time to complete a purchase without having to rush through checkout, which could be especially helpful for older collectors or anyone dealing with website delays.
If the purchase isn't completed within that window, the item simply returns to inventory for the next buyer. While these aren't assigned seats like Ticketmaster tickets, adding a temporary cart hold is a common e-commerce feature and should be technically feasible for the Mint.
The Mint would still sell out popular releases—the difference is that the sellout might happen in 15–20 minutes instead of 2 minutes. That gives actual collectors a fair chance to complete a purchase before automated scripts can sweep up large portions of the inventory in seconds.
No system will eliminate bots entirely, but a cart timer would at least level the playing field and improve access for collectors who genuinely want the coins rather than those using automated purchasing tools.
The Citizens advisory committee CCAC supposedly represents the general public. Cannot one of those members who post here get an answer on the current automated ordering situation. Specifically how effective is Mint oversight, as it relates to limited releases and private/bulk seller instant sellouts.
The Mint is a gov agency, they have a responsibility to be transparent.
Stick a fork in it. It's over.
Eventually, when the bots suck up all product within a minute of release - and you too are shut out with your automation - you will be steaming.
Go about it the old fashioned way - on the site on time; quickly move thru the screens and place you order with human keystrokes. Any other way is just cheating.
@Mk1995 said:
My order is still processing. I paid for two the UPS shipping. Nothing has changed since I ordered it still shows processing. Does anybody have a similar situation with the two day shipping?
It wouldn't hurt to call the Mint at (800) 872-6468 and ask about the status of your order. You may find there's a hold or verification issue with your credit card, as happened in my case.
It's also possible, as others have mentioned, that orders are not shipped from the warehouse based on the shipping method selected. Priority shipping generally applies once the package has been handed over to the carrier, not necessarily while it's waiting to be processed and packed by the Mint.
This is America in its 250th year. If the Founding Fathers could spend an entire summer debating a Constitution, surely we can spend a few pages discussing Mint checkout timers.
Let's put the forks and pitchforks away. Nobody's storming the Mint—just kicking around ideas. Besides, I've learned a few things from the discussion, which makes it time well spent.
@originalsandman said:
Was able to grab one and put in cart, but still wasn’t fast enough to complete.
Hmmm, would it behoove the Mint to secure items in bag until final check out so that running inventory does not adversely affect the desired purchase or would this give an advantage to the so called 'bots' and sundry schemers??
In other words, once bagged, it is yours regardless of background noise. Maybe just Quixotic of a thought....
And what is to keep someone from failing to complete the purchase?
A 10- or 15-minute cart timer seems like a practical solution. It would give collectors enough time to complete a purchase without having to rush through checkout, which could be especially helpful for older collectors or anyone dealing with website delays.
If the purchase isn't completed within that window, the item simply returns to inventory for the next buyer. While these aren't assigned seats like Ticketmaster tickets, adding a temporary cart hold is a common e-commerce feature and should be technically feasible for the Mint.
The Mint would still sell out popular releases—the difference is that the sellout might happen in 15–20 minutes instead of 2 minutes. That gives actual collectors a fair chance to complete a purchase before automated scripts can sweep up large portions of the inventory in seconds.
No system will eliminate bots entirely, but a cart timer would at least level the playing field and improve access for collectors who genuinely want the coins rather than those using automated purchasing tools.
Sure. Except while I'm taking my time having coffee, you're starting at a sell out. Are you going to state at it for 15 minutes waiting for me to put the coin back?
It also is zero help with bots. The bot also gets it in the cart faster than you.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
This is America in its 250th year. If the Founding Fathers could spend an entire summer debating a Constitution, surely we can spend a few pages discussing Mint checkout timers.
Let's put the forks and pitchforks away. Nobody's storming the Mint—just kicking around ideas. Besides, I've learned a few things from the discussion, which makes it time well spent.
What about the torches? Can I keep my torch lit?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
This is America in its 250th year. If the Founding Fathers could spend an entire summer debating a Constitution, surely we can spend a few pages discussing Mint checkout timers.
Let's put the forks and pitchforks away. Nobody's storming the Mint—just kicking around ideas. Besides, I've learned a few things from the discussion, which makes it time well spent.
What about the torches? Can I keep my torch lit?
-
--
🔥 If you feel so inclined, go right ahead.
Every good discussion needs at least one person carrying the torch while the rest of us argue over where to place the candle.
@originalsandman said:
Was able to grab one and put in cart, but still wasn’t fast enough to complete.
Hmmm, would it behoove the Mint to secure items in bag until final check out so that running inventory does not adversely affect the desired purchase or would this give an advantage to the so called 'bots' and sundry schemers??
In other words, once bagged, it is yours regardless of background noise. Maybe just Quixotic of a thought....
And what is to keep someone from failing to complete the purchase?
A 10- or 15-minute cart timer seems like a practical solution. It would give collectors enough time to complete a purchase without having to rush through checkout, which could be especially helpful for older collectors or anyone dealing with website delays.
If the purchase isn't completed within that window, the item simply returns to inventory for the next buyer. While these aren't assigned seats like Ticketmaster tickets, adding a temporary cart hold is a common e-commerce feature and should be technically feasible for the Mint.
The Mint would still sell out popular releases—the difference is that the sellout might happen in 15–20 minutes instead of 2 minutes. That gives actual collectors a fair chance to complete a purchase before automated scripts can sweep up large portions of the inventory in seconds.
No system will eliminate bots entirely, but a cart timer would at least level the playing field and improve access for collectors who genuinely want the coins rather than those using automated purchasing tools.
Sure. Except while I'm taking my time having coffee, you're starting at a sell out. Are you going to state at it for 15 minutes waiting for me to put the coin back?
It also is zero help with bots. The bot also gets it in the cart faster than you.
I don't think we're talking about the same problem.
A cart timer isn't intended to stop a bot from adding an item to a cart first. If a bot is faster, it's faster. The benefit is that once a legitimate buyer gets the coin into their cart, they have a guaranteed window to complete checkout instead of losing it because the site slows down, a payment verification takes an extra minute, or the checkout process gets bogged down.
We've all seen posts from people who successfully added a coin to their cart but couldn't complete checkout before inventory disappeared. A 10- or 15-minute hold would address that issue.
It would also create additional buying opportunities. If some buyers decide not to complete their purchase, those coins would return to inventory when the timer expires. Once collectors know those releases are coming, they'll be watching for them—similar to how many people already check for the early morning inventory releases.
Will it eliminate bots? No. But it could improve the odds for collectors who are able to secure an item in their cart yet lose out during the checkout process.
@originalsandman said:
Was able to grab one and put in cart, but still wasn’t fast enough to complete.
Hmmm, would it behoove the Mint to secure items in bag until final check out so that running inventory does not adversely affect the desired purchase or would this give an advantage to the so called 'bots' and sundry schemers??
In other words, once bagged, it is yours regardless of background noise. Maybe just Quixotic of a thought....
And what is to keep someone from failing to complete the purchase?
A 10- or 15-minute cart timer seems like a practical solution. It would give collectors enough time to complete a purchase without having to rush through checkout, which could be especially helpful for older collectors or anyone dealing with website delays.
If the purchase isn't completed within that window, the item simply returns to inventory for the next buyer. While these aren't assigned seats like Ticketmaster tickets, adding a temporary cart hold is a common e-commerce feature and should be technically feasible for the Mint.
The Mint would still sell out popular releases—the difference is that the sellout might happen in 15–20 minutes instead of 2 minutes. That gives actual collectors a fair chance to complete a purchase before automated scripts can sweep up large portions of the inventory in seconds.
No system will eliminate bots entirely, but a cart timer would at least level the playing field and improve access for collectors who genuinely want the coins rather than those using automated purchasing tools.
Sure. Except while I'm taking my time having coffee, you're starting at a sell out. Are you going to state at it for 15 minutes waiting for me to put the coin back?
It also is zero help with bots. The bot also gets it in the cart faster than you.
I don't think we're talking about the same problem.
A cart timer isn't intended to stop a bot from adding an item to a cart first. If a bot is faster, it's faster. The benefit is that once a legitimate buyer gets the coin into their cart, they have a guaranteed window to complete checkout instead of losing it because the site slows down, a payment verification takes an extra minute, or the checkout process gets bogged down.
We've all seen posts from people who successfully added a coin to their cart but couldn't complete checkout before inventory disappeared. A 10- or 15-minute hold would address that issue.
It would also create additional buying opportunities. If some buyers decide not to complete their purchase, those coins would return to inventory when the timer expires. Once collectors know those releases are coming, they'll be watching for them—similar to how many people already check for the early morning inventory releases.
Will it eliminate bots? No. But it could improve the odds for collectors who are able to secure an item in their cart yet lose out during the checkout process.
While everything you say has merit behind it, I feel like this type of setup would only lead to the inevitable complaint….. “I wasn’t even able to get one in my cart because of bots and slow people who can’t find their damned credit card!” 🤔
@originalsandman said:
Was able to grab one and put in cart, but still wasn’t fast enough to complete.
Hmmm, would it behoove the Mint to secure items in bag until final check out so that running inventory does not adversely affect the desired purchase or would this give an advantage to the so called 'bots' and sundry schemers??
In other words, once bagged, it is yours regardless of background noise. Maybe just Quixotic of a thought....
And what is to keep someone from failing to complete the purchase?
A 10- or 15-minute cart timer seems like a practical solution. It would give collectors enough time to complete a purchase without having to rush through checkout, which could be especially helpful for older collectors or anyone dealing with website delays.
If the purchase isn't completed within that window, the item simply returns to inventory for the next buyer. While these aren't assigned seats like Ticketmaster tickets, adding a temporary cart hold is a common e-commerce feature and should be technically feasible for the Mint.
The Mint would still sell out popular releases—the difference is that the sellout might happen in 15–20 minutes instead of 2 minutes. That gives actual collectors a fair chance to complete a purchase before automated scripts can sweep up large portions of the inventory in seconds.
No system will eliminate bots entirely, but a cart timer would at least level the playing field and improve access for collectors who genuinely want the coins rather than those using automated purchasing tools.
Sure. Except while I'm taking my time having coffee, you're starting at a sell out. Are you going to state at it for 15 minutes waiting for me to put the coin back?
It also is zero help with bots. The bot also gets it in the cart faster than you.
I don't think we're talking about the same problem.
A cart timer isn't intended to stop a bot from adding an item to a cart first. If a bot is faster, it's faster. The benefit is that once a legitimate buyer gets the coin into their cart, they have a guaranteed window to complete checkout instead of losing it because the site slows down, a payment verification takes an extra minute, or the checkout process gets bogged down.
We've all seen posts from people who successfully added a coin to their cart but couldn't complete checkout before inventory disappeared. A 10- or 15-minute hold would address that issue.
It would also create additional buying opportunities. If some buyers decide not to complete their purchase, those coins would return to inventory when the timer expires. Once collectors know those releases are coming, they'll be watching for them—similar to how many people already check for the early morning inventory releases.
Will it eliminate bots? No. But it could improve the odds for collectors who are able to secure an item in their cart yet lose out during the checkout process.
While everything you say has merit behind it, I feel like this type of setup would only lead to the inevitable complaint….. “I wasn’t even able to get one in my cart because of bots and slow people who can’t find their damned credit card!” 🤔
That's a fair point, but I think 10–15 minutes is a pretty reasonable checkout window.
Ideally, everyone should have their payment information ready before a hot release goes live. That said, real-life issues happen that have nothing to do with someone being slow. In my case, Chase flagged a Mint purchase for fraud and sent me a text alert, followed by a call from their fraud department. I was able to resolve everything and get the card cleared in about 5–10 minutes.
The problem was that by the time I returned to checkout, the inventory was gone—even though the item was still sitting in my cart.
That's really the scenario I'm talking about. A short cart timer wouldn't guarantee anyone a coin, but it would give people who successfully added one to their cart (including slow people who can't find their card) a fair opportunity to complete the transaction when an unexpected issue pops up. If a buyer can't complete the purchase within 15 minutes, the coin goes back into inventory for someone else.
@originalsandman said:
Was able to grab one and put in cart, but still wasn’t fast enough to complete.
Hmmm, would it behoove the Mint to secure items in bag until final check out so that running inventory does not adversely affect the desired purchase or would this give an advantage to the so called 'bots' and sundry schemers??
In other words, once bagged, it is yours regardless of background noise. Maybe just Quixotic of a thought....
And what is to keep someone from failing to complete the purchase?
A 10- or 15-minute cart timer seems like a practical solution. It would give collectors enough time to complete a purchase without having to rush through checkout, which could be especially helpful for older collectors or anyone dealing with website delays.
If the purchase isn't completed within that window, the item simply returns to inventory for the next buyer. While these aren't assigned seats like Ticketmaster tickets, adding a temporary cart hold is a common e-commerce feature and should be technically feasible for the Mint.
The Mint would still sell out popular releases—the difference is that the sellout might happen in 15–20 minutes instead of 2 minutes. That gives actual collectors a fair chance to complete a purchase before automated scripts can sweep up large portions of the inventory in seconds.
No system will eliminate bots entirely, but a cart timer would at least level the playing field and improve access for collectors who genuinely want the coins rather than those using automated purchasing tools.
Sure. Except while I'm taking my time having coffee, you're starting at a sell out. Are you going to state at it for 15 minutes waiting for me to put the coin back?
It also is zero help with bots. The bot also gets it in the cart faster than you.
I don't think we're talking about the same problem.
A cart timer isn't intended to stop a bot from adding an item to a cart first. If a bot is faster, it's faster. The benefit is that once a legitimate buyer gets the coin into their cart, they have a guaranteed window to complete checkout instead of losing it because the site slows down, a payment verification takes an extra minute, or the checkout process gets bogged down.
We've all seen posts from people who successfully added a coin to their cart but couldn't complete checkout before inventory disappeared. A 10- or 15-minute hold would address that issue.
It would also create additional buying opportunities. If some buyers decide not to complete their purchase, those coins would return to inventory when the timer expires. Once collectors know those releases are coming, they'll be watching for them—similar to how many people already check for the early morning inventory releases.
Will it eliminate bots? No. But it could improve the odds for collectors who are able to secure an item in their cart yet lose out during the checkout process.
While everything you say has merit behind it, I feel like this type of setup would only lead to the inevitable complaint….. “I wasn’t even able to get one in my cart because of bots and slow people who can’t find their damned credit card!” 🤔
That's a fair point, but I think 10–15 minutes is a pretty reasonable checkout window.
Ideally, everyone should have their payment information ready before a hot release goes live. That said, real-life issues happen that have nothing to do with someone being slow. In my case, Chase flagged a Mint purchase for fraud and sent me a text alert, followed by a call from their fraud department. I was able to resolve everything and get the card cleared in about 5–10 minutes.
The problem was that by the time I returned to checkout, the inventory was gone—even though the item was still sitting in my cart.
That's really the scenario I'm talking about. A short cart timer wouldn't guarantee anyone a coin, but it would give people who successfully added one to their cart (including slow people who can't find their card) a fair opportunity to complete the transaction when an unexpected issue pops up. If a buyer can't complete the purchase within 15 minutes, the coin goes back into inventory for someone else.
@originalsandman said:
Was able to grab one and put in cart, but still wasn’t fast enough to complete.
Hmmm, would it behoove the Mint to secure items in bag until final check out so that running inventory does not adversely affect the desired purchase or would this give an advantage to the so called 'bots' and sundry schemers??
In other words, once bagged, it is yours regardless of background noise. Maybe just Quixotic of a thought....
And what is to keep someone from failing to complete the purchase?
A 10- or 15-minute cart timer seems like a practical solution. It would give collectors enough time to complete a purchase without having to rush through checkout, which could be especially helpful for older collectors or anyone dealing with website delays.
If the purchase isn't completed within that window, the item simply returns to inventory for the next buyer. While these aren't assigned seats like Ticketmaster tickets, adding a temporary cart hold is a common e-commerce feature and should be technically feasible for the Mint.
The Mint would still sell out popular releases—the difference is that the sellout might happen in 15–20 minutes instead of 2 minutes. That gives actual collectors a fair chance to complete a purchase before automated scripts can sweep up large portions of the inventory in seconds.
No system will eliminate bots entirely, but a cart timer would at least level the playing field and improve access for collectors who genuinely want the coins rather than those using automated purchasing tools.
Sure. Except while I'm taking my time having coffee, you're starting at a sell out. Are you going to state at it for 15 minutes waiting for me to put the coin back?
It also is zero help with bots. The bot also gets it in the cart faster than you.
I don't think we're talking about the same problem.
A cart timer isn't intended to stop a bot from adding an item to a cart first. If a bot is faster, it's faster. The benefit is that once a legitimate buyer gets the coin into their cart, they have a guaranteed window to complete checkout instead of losing it because the site slows down, a payment verification takes an extra minute, or the checkout process gets bogged down.
We've all seen posts from people who successfully added a coin to their cart but couldn't complete checkout before inventory disappeared. A 10- or 15-minute hold would address that issue.
It would also create additional buying opportunities. If some buyers decide not to complete their purchase, those coins would return to inventory when the timer expires. Once collectors know those releases are coming, they'll be watching for them—similar to how many people already check for the early morning inventory releases.
Will it eliminate bots? No. But it could improve the odds for collectors who are able to secure an item in their cart yet lose out during the checkout process.
While everything you say has merit behind it, I feel like this type of setup would only lead to the inevitable complaint….. “I wasn’t even able to get one in my cart because of bots and slow people who can’t find their damned credit card!” 🤔
That's a fair point, but I think 10–15 minutes is a pretty reasonable checkout window.
Ideally, everyone should have their payment information ready before a hot release goes live. That said, real-life issues happen that have nothing to do with someone being slow. In my case, Chase flagged a Mint purchase for fraud and sent me a text alert, followed by a call from their fraud department. I was able to resolve everything and get the card cleared in about 5–10 minutes.
The problem was that by the time I returned to checkout, the inventory was gone—even though the item was still sitting in my cart.
That's really the scenario I'm talking about. A short cart timer wouldn't guarantee anyone a coin, but it would give people who successfully added one to their cart (including slow people who can't find their card) a fair opportunity to complete the transaction when an unexpected issue pops up. If a buyer can't complete the purchase within 15 minutes, the coin goes back into inventory for someone else.
That would be fair to somebody who got it in their cart quickly. The Mint can never satisfy 100% of us, so somebody would hate that process.
I saw this idea somewhere else, but what if (using this EU gold Eagle as an example) 7,000 subscriptions with HHL of 1 were available. The Mint could advertise that subscriptions would go live at noon on a given day. That would allow them weeks (months) to confirm that it truly was 1 per address and toss all the Bot orders from one IP address using the same CC. I know the idea stands a snowball’s chance in hell, but it’s simply a thought.
@originalsandman said:
Was able to grab one and put in cart, but still wasn’t fast enough to complete.
Hmmm, would it behoove the Mint to secure items in bag until final check out so that running inventory does not adversely affect the desired purchase or would this give an advantage to the so called 'bots' and sundry schemers??
In other words, once bagged, it is yours regardless of background noise. Maybe just Quixotic of a thought....
And what is to keep someone from failing to complete the purchase?
A 10- or 15-minute cart timer seems like a practical solution. It would give collectors enough time to complete a purchase without having to rush through checkout, which could be especially helpful for older collectors or anyone dealing with website delays.
If the purchase isn't completed within that window, the item simply returns to inventory for the next buyer. While these aren't assigned seats like Ticketmaster tickets, adding a temporary cart hold is a common e-commerce feature and should be technically feasible for the Mint.
The Mint would still sell out popular releases—the difference is that the sellout might happen in 15–20 minutes instead of 2 minutes. That gives actual collectors a fair chance to complete a purchase before automated scripts can sweep up large portions of the inventory in seconds.
No system will eliminate bots entirely, but a cart timer would at least level the playing field and improve access for collectors who genuinely want the coins rather than those using automated purchasing tools.
Sure. Except while I'm taking my time having coffee, you're starting at a sell out. Are you going to state at it for 15 minutes waiting for me to put the coin back?
It also is zero help with bots. The bot also gets it in the cart faster than you.
I don't think we're talking about the same problem.
A cart timer isn't intended to stop a bot from adding an item to a cart first. If a bot is faster, it's faster. The benefit is that once a legitimate buyer gets the coin into their cart, they have a guaranteed window to complete checkout instead of losing it because the site slows down, a payment verification takes an extra minute, or the checkout process gets bogged down.
We've all seen posts from people who successfully added a coin to their cart but couldn't complete checkout before inventory disappeared. A 10- or 15-minute hold would address that issue.
It would also create additional buying opportunities. If some buyers decide not to complete their purchase, those coins would return to inventory when the timer expires. Once collectors know those releases are coming, they'll be watching for them—similar to how many people already check for the early morning inventory releases.
Will it eliminate bots? No. But it could improve the odds for collectors who are able to secure an item in their cart yet lose out during the checkout process.
While everything you say has merit behind it, I feel like this type of setup would only lead to the inevitable complaint….. “I wasn’t even able to get one in my cart because of bots and slow people who can’t find their damned credit card!” 🤔
That's a fair point, but I think 10–15 minutes is a pretty reasonable checkout window.
Ideally, everyone should have their payment information ready before a hot release goes live. That said, real-life issues happen that have nothing to do with someone being slow. In my case, Chase flagged a Mint purchase for fraud and sent me a text alert, followed by a call from their fraud department. I was able to resolve everything and get the card cleared in about 5–10 minutes.
The problem was that by the time I returned to checkout, the inventory was gone—even though the item was still sitting in my cart.
That's really the scenario I'm talking about. A short cart timer wouldn't guarantee anyone a coin, but it would give people who successfully added one to their cart (including slow people who can't find their card) a fair opportunity to complete the transaction when an unexpected issue pops up. If a buyer can't complete the purchase within 15 minutes, the coin goes back into inventory for someone else.
Except you might never have even gotten it into your cart under your scenario. Say they are 1000 coins available and 1000 bots and 1000 humans. Under the current system, everyone gets one in the cart but the bots check out first. Under your proposed system, the bots get 1000 coins into the cart first and you're still out of luck.
Because the sake aren't final until checkout, slow humans think they got it in their cart in time but you might have been the 4000th person putting one of the 1000 coins in your cart.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@originalsandman said:
Was able to grab one and put in cart, but still wasn’t fast enough to complete.
Hmmm, would it behoove the Mint to secure items in bag until final check out so that running inventory does not adversely affect the desired purchase or would this give an advantage to the so called 'bots' and sundry schemers??
In other words, once bagged, it is yours regardless of background noise. Maybe just Quixotic of a thought....
And what is to keep someone from failing to complete the purchase?
A 10- or 15-minute cart timer seems like a practical solution. It would give collectors enough time to complete a purchase without having to rush through checkout, which could be especially helpful for older collectors or anyone dealing with website delays.
If the purchase isn't completed within that window, the item simply returns to inventory for the next buyer. While these aren't assigned seats like Ticketmaster tickets, adding a temporary cart hold is a common e-commerce feature and should be technically feasible for the Mint.
The Mint would still sell out popular releases—the difference is that the sellout might happen in 15–20 minutes instead of 2 minutes. That gives actual collectors a fair chance to complete a purchase before automated scripts can sweep up large portions of the inventory in seconds.
No system will eliminate bots entirely, but a cart timer would at least level the playing field and improve access for collectors who genuinely want the coins rather than those using automated purchasing tools.
Sure. Except while I'm taking my time having coffee, you're starting at a sell out. Are you going to state at it for 15 minutes waiting for me to put the coin back?
It also is zero help with bots. The bot also gets it in the cart faster than you.
I don't think we're talking about the same problem.
A cart timer isn't intended to stop a bot from adding an item to a cart first. If a bot is faster, it's faster. The benefit is that once a legitimate buyer gets the coin into their cart, they have a guaranteed window to complete checkout instead of losing it because the site slows down, a payment verification takes an extra minute, or the checkout process gets bogged down.
We've all seen posts from people who successfully added a coin to their cart but couldn't complete checkout before inventory disappeared. A 10- or 15-minute hold would address that issue.
It would also create additional buying opportunities. If some buyers decide not to complete their purchase, those coins would return to inventory when the timer expires. Once collectors know those releases are coming, they'll be watching for them—similar to how many people already check for the early morning inventory releases.
Will it eliminate bots? No. But it could improve the odds for collectors who are able to secure an item in their cart yet lose out during the checkout process.
While everything you say has merit behind it, I feel like this type of setup would only lead to the inevitable complaint….. “I wasn’t even able to get one in my cart because of bots and slow people who can’t find their damned credit card!” 🤔
That's a fair point, but I think 10–15 minutes is a pretty reasonable checkout window.
Ideally, everyone should have their payment information ready before a hot release goes live. That said, real-life issues happen that have nothing to do with someone being slow. In my case, Chase flagged a Mint purchase for fraud and sent me a text alert, followed by a call from their fraud department. I was able to resolve everything and get the card cleared in about 5–10 minutes.
The problem was that by the time I returned to checkout, the inventory was gone—even though the item was still sitting in my cart.
That's really the scenario I'm talking about. A short cart timer wouldn't guarantee anyone a coin, but it would give people who successfully added one to their cart (including slow people who can't find their card) a fair opportunity to complete the transaction when an unexpected issue pops up. If a buyer can't complete the purchase within 15 minutes, the coin goes back into inventory for someone else.
Except you might never have even gotten it into your cart under your scenario. Say they are 1000 coins available and 1000 bots and 1000 humans. Under the current system, everyone gets one in the cart but the bots check out first. Under your proposed system, the bots get 1000 coins into the cart first and you're still out of luck.
Because the sake aren't final until checkout, slow humans think they got it in their cart in time but you might have been the 4000th person putting one of the 1000 coins in your cart.
I think that's a fair criticism, and I agree a cart timer by itself wouldn't solve the bot problem.
My point has never been that a timer prevents bots from getting items into carts first. If the bots are truly that much faster, then you're right—the timer doesn't change that.
What I'm suggesting is that a timer addresses a different issue: the collector who legitimately gets an item into their cart but loses it during checkout because of site lag, payment verification, a fraud alert, or some other delay.
In other words, I'm not presenting it as an anti-bot solution so much as a checkout-protection solution.
Would it eliminate every complaint? Of course not. We'd probably just trade "I lost it during checkout" for "I never got it into my cart." But for those who do manage to get one in their cart, a short reservation window would at least give them a realistic chance to complete the purchase.
The real anti-bot measures are things like stronger queue systems, account verification, purchase limits, CAPTCHA challenges, and bot detection. A cart timer is just one tool that could make the checkout experience a little fairer.
@originalsandman said:
Was able to grab one and put in cart, but still wasn’t fast enough to complete.
Hmmm, would it behoove the Mint to secure items in bag until final check out so that running inventory does not adversely affect the desired purchase or would this give an advantage to the so called 'bots' and sundry schemers??
In other words, once bagged, it is yours regardless of background noise. Maybe just Quixotic of a thought....
And what is to keep someone from failing to complete the purchase?
A 10- or 15-minute cart timer seems like a practical solution. It would give collectors enough time to complete a purchase without having to rush through checkout, which could be especially helpful for older collectors or anyone dealing with website delays.
If the purchase isn't completed within that window, the item simply returns to inventory for the next buyer. While these aren't assigned seats like Ticketmaster tickets, adding a temporary cart hold is a common e-commerce feature and should be technically feasible for the Mint.
The Mint would still sell out popular releases—the difference is that the sellout might happen in 15–20 minutes instead of 2 minutes. That gives actual collectors a fair chance to complete a purchase before automated scripts can sweep up large portions of the inventory in seconds.
No system will eliminate bots entirely, but a cart timer would at least level the playing field and improve access for collectors who genuinely want the coins rather than those using automated purchasing tools.
Sure. Except while I'm taking my time having coffee, you're starting at a sell out. Are you going to state at it for 15 minutes waiting for me to put the coin back?
It also is zero help with bots. The bot also gets it in the cart faster than you.
I don't think we're talking about the same problem.
A cart timer isn't intended to stop a bot from adding an item to a cart first. If a bot is faster, it's faster. The benefit is that once a legitimate buyer gets the coin into their cart, they have a guaranteed window to complete checkout instead of losing it because the site slows down, a payment verification takes an extra minute, or the checkout process gets bogged down.
We've all seen posts from people who successfully added a coin to their cart but couldn't complete checkout before inventory disappeared. A 10- or 15-minute hold would address that issue.
It would also create additional buying opportunities. If some buyers decide not to complete their purchase, those coins would return to inventory when the timer expires. Once collectors know those releases are coming, they'll be watching for them—similar to how many people already check for the early morning inventory releases.
Will it eliminate bots? No. But it could improve the odds for collectors who are able to secure an item in their cart yet lose out during the checkout process.
While everything you say has merit behind it, I feel like this type of setup would only lead to the inevitable complaint….. “I wasn’t even able to get one in my cart because of bots and slow people who can’t find their damned credit card!” 🤔
That's a fair point, but I think 10–15 minutes is a pretty reasonable checkout window.
Ideally, everyone should have their payment information ready before a hot release goes live. That said, real-life issues happen that have nothing to do with someone being slow. In my case, Chase flagged a Mint purchase for fraud and sent me a text alert, followed by a call from their fraud department. I was able to resolve everything and get the card cleared in about 5–10 minutes.
The problem was that by the time I returned to checkout, the inventory was gone—even though the item was still sitting in my cart.
That's really the scenario I'm talking about. A short cart timer wouldn't guarantee anyone a coin, but it would give people who successfully added one to their cart (including slow people who can't find their card) a fair opportunity to complete the transaction when an unexpected issue pops up. If a buyer can't complete the purchase within 15 minutes, the coin goes back into inventory for someone else.
Except you might never have even gotten it into your cart under your scenario. Say they are 1000 coins available and 1000 bots and 1000 humans. Under the current system, everyone gets one in the cart but the bots check out first. Under your proposed system, the bots get 1000 coins into the cart first and you're still out of luck.
Because the sake aren't final until checkout, slow humans think they got it in their cart in time but you might have been the 4000th person putting one of the 1000 coins in your cart.
I think that's a fair criticism, and I agree a cart timer by itself wouldn't solve the bot problem.
My point has never been that a timer prevents bots from getting items into carts first. If the bots are truly that much faster, then you're right—the timer doesn't change that.
What I'm suggesting is that a timer addresses a different issue: the collector who legitimately gets an item into their cart but loses it during checkout because of site lag, payment verification, a fraud alert, or some other delay.
In other words, I'm not presenting it as an anti-bot solution so much as a checkout-protection solution.
Would it eliminate every complaint? Of course not. We'd probably just trade "I lost it during checkout" for "I never got it into my cart." But for those who do manage to get one in their cart, a short reservation window would at least give them a realistic chance to complete the purchase.
The real anti-bot measures are things like stronger queue systems, account verification, purchase limits, CAPTCHA challenges, and bot detection. A cart timer is just one tool that could make the checkout experience a little fairer.
But then people would use bots to repeatedly put inventory into bags and let it expire for the first 24 hours until the HHL is lifted and then they'd suck everything up in one big order.
@originalsandman said:
Was able to grab one and put in cart, but still wasn’t fast enough to complete.
Hmmm, would it behoove the Mint to secure items in bag until final check out so that running inventory does not adversely affect the desired purchase or would this give an advantage to the so called 'bots' and sundry schemers??
In other words, once bagged, it is yours regardless of background noise. Maybe just Quixotic of a thought....
And what is to keep someone from failing to complete the purchase?
A 10- or 15-minute cart timer seems like a practical solution. It would give collectors enough time to complete a purchase without having to rush through checkout, which could be especially helpful for older collectors or anyone dealing with website delays.
If the purchase isn't completed within that window, the item simply returns to inventory for the next buyer. While these aren't assigned seats like Ticketmaster tickets, adding a temporary cart hold is a common e-commerce feature and should be technically feasible for the Mint.
The Mint would still sell out popular releases—the difference is that the sellout might happen in 15–20 minutes instead of 2 minutes. That gives actual collectors a fair chance to complete a purchase before automated scripts can sweep up large portions of the inventory in seconds.
No system will eliminate bots entirely, but a cart timer would at least level the playing field and improve access for collectors who genuinely want the coins rather than those using automated purchasing tools.
Sure. Except while I'm taking my time having coffee, you're starting at a sell out. Are you going to state at it for 15 minutes waiting for me to put the coin back?
It also is zero help with bots. The bot also gets it in the cart faster than you.
I don't think we're talking about the same problem.
A cart timer isn't intended to stop a bot from adding an item to a cart first. If a bot is faster, it's faster. The benefit is that once a legitimate buyer gets the coin into their cart, they have a guaranteed window to complete checkout instead of losing it because the site slows down, a payment verification takes an extra minute, or the checkout process gets bogged down.
We've all seen posts from people who successfully added a coin to their cart but couldn't complete checkout before inventory disappeared. A 10- or 15-minute hold would address that issue.
It would also create additional buying opportunities. If some buyers decide not to complete their purchase, those coins would return to inventory when the timer expires. Once collectors know those releases are coming, they'll be watching for them—similar to how many people already check for the early morning inventory releases.
Will it eliminate bots? No. But it could improve the odds for collectors who are able to secure an item in their cart yet lose out during the checkout process.
While everything you say has merit behind it, I feel like this type of setup would only lead to the inevitable complaint….. “I wasn’t even able to get one in my cart because of bots and slow people who can’t find their damned credit card!” 🤔
That's a fair point, but I think 10–15 minutes is a pretty reasonable checkout window.
Ideally, everyone should have their payment information ready before a hot release goes live. That said, real-life issues happen that have nothing to do with someone being slow. In my case, Chase flagged a Mint purchase for fraud and sent me a text alert, followed by a call from their fraud department. I was able to resolve everything and get the card cleared in about 5–10 minutes.
The problem was that by the time I returned to checkout, the inventory was gone—even though the item was still sitting in my cart.
That's really the scenario I'm talking about. A short cart timer wouldn't guarantee anyone a coin, but it would give people who successfully added one to their cart (including slow people who can't find their card) a fair opportunity to complete the transaction when an unexpected issue pops up. If a buyer can't complete the purchase within 15 minutes, the coin goes back into inventory for someone else.
Except you might never have even gotten it into your cart under your scenario. Say they are 1000 coins available and 1000 bots and 1000 humans. Under the current system, everyone gets one in the cart but the bots check out first. Under your proposed system, the bots get 1000 coins into the cart first and you're still out of luck.
Because the sake aren't final until checkout, slow humans think they got it in their cart in time but you might have been the 4000th person putting one of the 1000 coins in your cart.
I think that's a fair criticism, and I agree a cart timer by itself wouldn't solve the bot problem.
My point has never been that a timer prevents bots from getting items into carts first. If the bots are truly that much faster, then you're right—the timer doesn't change that.
What I'm suggesting is that a timer addresses a different issue: the collector who legitimately gets an item into their cart but loses it during checkout because of site lag, payment verification, a fraud alert, or some other delay.
In other words, I'm not presenting it as an anti-bot solution so much as a checkout-protection solution.
Would it eliminate every complaint? Of course not. We'd probably just trade "I lost it during checkout" for "I never got it into my cart." But for those who do manage to get one in their cart, a short reservation window would at least give them a realistic chance to complete the purchase.
The real anti-bot measures are things like stronger queue systems, account verification, purchase limits, CAPTCHA challenges, and bot detection. A cart timer is just one tool that could make the checkout experience a little fairer.
But then people would use bots to repeatedly put inventory into bags and let it expire for the first 24 hours until the HHL is lifted and then they'd suck everything up in one big order.
Now that would be funny, although I don't think that would be a easy to do. The Mint would have 24 hours to diagnose the problem and apply countermeasures.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@jclovescoins said:
This looks like a neat coin. I will admit that I tried to buy one to flip, not keep. The process is ridiculous, though, and I feel worse and worse about the US Mint after each one of these new releases. I am on the site 10 minutes early, hit refresh right at noon and get placed in a waiting room that tells me only 1 minute wait, only to see if take 2.5 minutes and then none available. I do not believe that there are 6000 unique people logging in at 12 on the dot to spend $5400. In fact, we know that is not the case because certain people brag about getting 3 or getting 15, whatever. It's all using bots or circumventing the rules. Even though it was also my intention to flip, I feel bad for the collectors who wanted to buy one and were shut out due to this stupid process that the US Mint employs and the dishonest people getting 15 using bots. I think it's one thing to have multiple accounts and send to family members, but another to use bots that operate at record speed shutting everyone else out.
Ehh. I hate the bots as much as anyone else, but all you are saying is that "it's one thing" to do what you are comfortable with ("have multiple accounts and send to family members"), but another to do what benefits someone else. It's all cheating.
Or it's all legitimate.
OR, bots are not cheating and multiple accounts are.
People are never really consistent on their situational ethics.
Correct. They justify what they do, and vilify anything that prevents them from doing it.
That said, there is no denying that the bots take the common practice of a few friends and family accounts to a whole new level.
Or they don't. If I use a bit to buy my HHL of 1, there really shouldn't be a problem with that. I've just automated the purchase.
I understand. That's not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is that someone who thinks it's okay to bypass the HHL by using F&F to buy 5 has a big problem with someone using a bot to buy 15, because that bot might prevent them from getting their 5.
I have a problem with all of it. No one is using a bot to only buy 1. So your argument is interesting, but, like most of them, is only theoretical and tantamount to arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
I understand that. And I don't really disagree. I think you can consider both wrong or both not wrong. [I don't want to go all the way to right.]
And it's not as theoretical as you think. (Why did you have to go all the way to a borderline insult, when we were getting along so well?) I could use a script to automate ordering. Some people on here may already be doing it that way. You don't have to be using a commercial bot to purchase.
They are actually pretty cheap to rent, by the way. I don't know if you can just rent one for a week or month, though.
Because you are being professorial in arguing every angle in order to stimulate a debate. Bots are qualitatively different from manual ordering.
So the fact that buying 1 with a bot is technically in compliance with the HHL while using using F&F to manually buy 5 is not, that is not what bots are used for, and you know it. Bots are used by buying club members to buy hundreds, all for the beneficial ownership of the buying club. Not for the individual members obeying marching orders in return for $50 and airline miles.
As a result, you can argue all you want, but they are both bad, and one is far, far worse than the other.
Any method used to beat the rules is cheating plain and simple. Why things are so bad now.
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
Comments
No grey area here -very straightforward.
I have and always used human keystrokes to get my order in. I am successful 99% of the time.
V75 Gold - Flowing Hair Silvers - etc. all of the hard ones.
Sometimes was even lucky enough to get in on quantities when HHL was released on Day 2 of offerings.
But something has to be done about these BOTS. Some say CAPTCHA in the middle of the ordering process (or at the very end) could disrupt any automation. Maybe there are other ways as well.
It has now been raised to a point where typically a $5000 gold coin with a mintage in the mid 7000 range would be available for at least 7-10 minutes with the most demand.....now we are seeing sellouts in 2 minutes....absolutely nuts.
Good luck to everyone for the "Best of the Mint" series - another 2 minute sellout?
So that would indicate they didn't mint the total 7500 in the first run?
Lol. My whole discussion on this thread started with my AGREEMENT with you.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
They might be minted, just need packaging. But pretty sure the ones ordered this morning are backordered, but we'll need someone who was able to get one to confirm. I doubt there will be another large quantity available on these, just a few randoms available at 7:30 for a few mornings, if any.
Will be more informed when they release sales numbers this week. Have seen a few comments from folks who got one this morning. Can anyone here who got one chime in on backorder status, if any?
Mine left Texas at 1 am this morning and is due Monday with next day air shipping.
Just to add another possible reason why more Gold Coins showed up this morning:
One of my "family member's" coins had issues in the past because the shipping address was different from the billing address on the card being used (also a Chase card).
Yesterday, I didn't like seeing one order sitting in "Processing" all day while the others had already shipped, so I called the Mint. They verified that the order was being held up because of a flag from Chase and the payment wasn't going through. They recommended that I call Chase.
When I called Chase, they confirmed there was a hold on the card because it was a newer credit card (one of their hotel bonus signup cards) and the purchase amount was large. They cleared the fraud alert. I then called the Mint back, they reprocessed the payment, and it went through. Later that day, I could see the pending charge on Chase's website.
I was a little disappointed that neither Chase nor the Mint reached out to let me know there was a problem with the charge. I'm pretty sure that if I hadn't called to check on the order status, the coin would have eventually been returned to virtual stock and become available for someone else to pick up, either at today's 7:30 release or a future one.
Again, this is just one possible scenario.
Going forward, I think I'll use other card issuers for larger purchases. Chase already burned me once on one of these and was about to do it again with their fraud/security checks and lack of communication that there was an issue.
I've also got a few other things I'm planning to do to improve my chances in the future, but those would probably be pretty controversial to discuss here.
BST references available on request
I don't know that bots are bad. They are an advantage that you could employ if you wanted to.
There's really no difference between me using a bot to buy my 1 unit and me completing checkout manually other than the chance of sellout increases the longer it takes. If I'm on my game I can probably complete manual checkout in 15s. My elderly father would probably take over a minute. Is he forever disadvantaged because he can't compete with us "young folk?" Or should my father be able to use a technical advantage to overcome his slowness? When a bot is just used to perform manual actions automatically, I see no problem. That's like complaining that your neighbor gets to the store faster because he drives a car and you walk. You're making the choice not to use the car technology and compete the "old fashioned" way.
I think the problem is once you get in, you can log in and out of any number of accounts.
Probably, Once you get past the firewall you have free rein to fire off 10 or 15 bots.
I’m sure the tech savvy people laugh off the mints attempt to stop them.
They are bad because they are prone to abuse, and because they box out people playing by the rules. Because most people don't use them to buy just one, when they can just as easily buy 15. Or 100. Or whatever. They are not designed for people to buy just one. They are designed for people to buy as many as they want.
The waiting room should actually eliminate the bot advantage.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
That's not necessarily true. They are designed to do whatever you want them to. It's a script that does whatever you design it to.
They may be designed just to handle staggered releases so you don't have to sit there all day.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Again, argue for the sake of arguing. Someone has a tool that allows them to circumvent HHLs and buy a ton of "hot" MInt releases.
And they will restrain themselves by staying within the HHL, when everyone here who doesn't use them grabs as many as they can. Because, theoretically, you could be right, and the person with the bot might control themself. People go out of their way to use bots to only buy one when they can buy many.
Sure. Because "that's not necessarily true." Yes, as you point out time and time again, anything is potentially true, so let's always ignore the obvious and consider the highly unlikely.
Potentially. But only if it activates. Which it did not for most on Thursday.
True. Bot can't, by itself, violate the HHL either. FWIW
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I'm going to ignore this. Someone posted a screenshot of 15 charges in less than 2 minutes.
The bot enabled the user to violate the HHL. Yes, guns don't kill people. I get it. Except, people can't seriously injure or kill other people with tiny pieces of lead without a gun.
Sigh...
Please explain for the audience how a bot circumvents the HHL.
By itself, it doesn't.
It's also not "arguing for arguing's sake". You've jumped in a partial understanding of bots and are running with it. Bots are used to just check for availability and buy. They are just a script to automate tasks so you don't have to. They can't buy more than the HHL unless they have multiple cards and addresses.
Bots will absolutely trounce humans at finding random dumps and buying, especially those early morning dumps after the HHL is lifted. Their advantafe is less obvious when the waiting room is on and the HHL is in place.
https://proxywing.com/blog/shopping-bot-guide-what-is-it-and-how-to-create-an-automated-one
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Ignoring this SHOULD mean not responding. Lol. I guess you're just posting for posting's sake.
How many of those 15 were canceled due to HHL violations.
I look forward to your ignoring this with a response.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Hmmm, would it behoove the Mint to secure items in bag until final check out so that running inventory does not adversely affect the desired purchase or would this give an advantage to the so called 'bots' and sundry schemers??
In other words, once bagged, it is yours regardless of background noise. Maybe just Quixotic of a thought....
YES, YES, YES!!!!
[youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmhsMZFCIYU[/youtube]
BST references available on request
There is a problem. You are using automated means to gain the upper hand and checkout faster - you are not using keystrokes like everyone else. It is an unfair advantage.
The car analogy makes no sense. Why not say pumping steroids into professional athletes is fine too? Then they can perform better. Anyone can do it, right?
Wrong.
The USM TOS expressly forbids using BOTS or any automation to place orders. Period.
No. No one does this, because people abandoning items in bags would be a problem. With just about all e-commerce sites, the bag doesn't mean anything. Your items are removed from inventory when a transaction is completed and you receive a confirmation number. Not before.
They could put you on a timer once in a bag, like Ticketmaster does, but that's a PITA, and would lead to items being unavailable for some while others who come later would be able to buy, once the timer times out. Ticketmaster does it because you are buying a specific seat, not one of many that are identical, and it would be very frustrating to have to repeat the process every time someone else grabs your seat. Or to just stick you in a seat you didn't select.
The USM Terms of Service:
"the U.S. Mint strictly prohibits the use of automated purchasing software, technological solutions, and web robots (bots) by both retail and bulk customers"
End of Story. Stick a fork in it.
If you are using automation to place even 1 order, you are in violation of the TOS.
@coiner said:
Can you point to the source for this quotation? I'm having trouble tracking down this exact phrase. Thanks!
No, as other have said they want to sell items to the first person to pay for them, not have someone put it in their bag, holding up inventory. They sell commodities that are all identical, not one-of-a-kind tickets like Ticketmaster.
Is it really unfair when you have the option to use a bot also?
Sure the car analogy makes perfect sense. You can make your purchase the old fashioned way (manually) or you can use a bot. Why the hate and disdain for those opting to use technology that you haven't bothered to obtain or use? A farmer can chose to pick his corn one at a time or use a tractor. If the farmer chooses not to use a tractor that doesn't mean every with a tractor has an unfair advantage in the corn marketplace.
Please provide a specific link and citation. The only prohibition I found against it was for participants in the ABPP and even then the only thing that is prohibited is violating the HHL, not the use of automation itself.
I was going to ask the same thing as I can't find it. There are similar terms in the ABPP agreement, but I'm not sure the bot users are participating in that program and again, the prohibition is against violating the HHL, not the use of bots.
And we don't know the details either. Did they photoshop that graphic? Was it all on one account? Did they use 15 accounts and 15 households? did they or will they be cancelled? We all know you like to fill in the holes with your imagination and consider it fact. But the reality is we don't have any of those answers.
My order is still processing. I paid for two the UPS shipping. Nothing has changed since I ordered it still shows processing. Does anybody have a similar situation with the two day shipping?
paying for faster shipping doesn't mean your order goes first
And what is to keep someone from failing to complete the purchase?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
2 day shipping is the method of delivery not the time it takes to leave the Mint. Could take days or weeks to be shipped.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
It's in the bulk buyers program. He's (accidentally?) quoting it incorrectly. There is no mention of the word "bot" or similar in the Terms of Service.
https://www.usmint.gov/resources/terms-of-use?srsltid=AfmBOoqPjCbwANavmAuwTuLG7vh_TxkW4ieDsrKrFGXgTnLfomTxFilk
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Only if you are a bulk purchases it seems. I'm not.
The context of that appears to be for order limit violation, not placing of a single order.
Could you please clarify? Seems like the fork needs to be taken out.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
A 10- or 15-minute cart timer seems like a practical solution. It would give collectors enough time to complete a purchase without having to rush through checkout, which could be especially helpful for older collectors or anyone dealing with website delays.
If the purchase isn't completed within that window, the item simply returns to inventory for the next buyer. While these aren't assigned seats like Ticketmaster tickets, adding a temporary cart hold is a common e-commerce feature and should be technically feasible for the Mint.
The Mint would still sell out popular releases—the difference is that the sellout might happen in 15–20 minutes instead of 2 minutes. That gives actual collectors a fair chance to complete a purchase before automated scripts can sweep up large portions of the inventory in seconds.
No system will eliminate bots entirely, but a cart timer would at least level the playing field and improve access for collectors who genuinely want the coins rather than those using automated purchasing tools.
BST references available on request
The Citizens advisory committee CCAC supposedly represents the general public. Cannot one of those members who post here get an answer on the current automated ordering situation. Specifically how effective is Mint oversight, as it relates to limited releases and private/bulk seller instant sellouts.
The Mint is a gov agency, they have a responsibility to be transparent.
Stick a fork in it. It's over.
Eventually, when the bots suck up all product within a minute of release - and you too are shut out with your automation - you will be steaming.
Go about it the old fashioned way - on the site on time; quickly move thru the screens and place you order with human keystrokes. Any other way is just cheating.
It wouldn't hurt to call the Mint at (800) 872-6468 and ask about the status of your order. You may find there's a hold or verification issue with your credit card, as happened in my case.
It's also possible, as others have mentioned, that orders are not shipped from the warehouse based on the shipping method selected. Priority shipping generally applies once the package has been handed over to the carrier, not necessarily while it's waiting to be processed and packed by the Mint.
BST references available on request
This is America in its 250th year. If the Founding Fathers could spend an entire summer debating a Constitution, surely we can spend a few pages discussing Mint checkout timers.
Let's put the forks and pitchforks away. Nobody's storming the Mint—just kicking around ideas. Besides, I've learned a few things from the discussion, which makes it time well spent.
BST references available on request
Sure. Except while I'm taking my time having coffee, you're starting at a sell out. Are you going to state at it for 15 minutes waiting for me to put the coin back?
It also is zero help with bots. The bot also gets it in the cart faster than you.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
What about the torches? Can I keep my torch lit?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
-
--
🔥 If you feel so inclined, go right ahead.
Every good discussion needs at least one person carrying the torch while the rest of us argue over where to place the candle.
[youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLvGnro4Cgw[/youtube]
BST references available on request
I don't think we're talking about the same problem.
A cart timer isn't intended to stop a bot from adding an item to a cart first. If a bot is faster, it's faster. The benefit is that once a legitimate buyer gets the coin into their cart, they have a guaranteed window to complete checkout instead of losing it because the site slows down, a payment verification takes an extra minute, or the checkout process gets bogged down.
We've all seen posts from people who successfully added a coin to their cart but couldn't complete checkout before inventory disappeared. A 10- or 15-minute hold would address that issue.
It would also create additional buying opportunities. If some buyers decide not to complete their purchase, those coins would return to inventory when the timer expires. Once collectors know those releases are coming, they'll be watching for them—similar to how many people already check for the early morning inventory releases.
Will it eliminate bots? No. But it could improve the odds for collectors who are able to secure an item in their cart yet lose out during the checkout process.
BST references available on request
While everything you say has merit behind it, I feel like this type of setup would only lead to the inevitable complaint….. “I wasn’t even able to get one in my cart because of bots and slow people who can’t find their damned credit card!” 🤔
That's a fair point, but I think 10–15 minutes is a pretty reasonable checkout window.
Ideally, everyone should have their payment information ready before a hot release goes live. That said, real-life issues happen that have nothing to do with someone being slow. In my case, Chase flagged a Mint purchase for fraud and sent me a text alert, followed by a call from their fraud department. I was able to resolve everything and get the card cleared in about 5–10 minutes.
The problem was that by the time I returned to checkout, the inventory was gone—even though the item was still sitting in my cart.
That's really the scenario I'm talking about. A short cart timer wouldn't guarantee anyone a coin, but it would give people who successfully added one to their cart (including slow people who can't find their card) a fair opportunity to complete the transaction when an unexpected issue pops up. If a buyer can't complete the purchase within 15 minutes, the coin goes back into inventory for someone else.
BST references available on request
That would be fair to somebody who got it in their cart quickly. The Mint can never satisfy 100% of us, so somebody would hate that process.
I saw this idea somewhere else, but what if (using this EU gold Eagle as an example) 7,000 subscriptions with HHL of 1 were available. The Mint could advertise that subscriptions would go live at noon on a given day. That would allow them weeks (months) to confirm that it truly was 1 per address and toss all the Bot orders from one IP address using the same CC. I know the idea stands a snowball’s chance in hell, but it’s simply a thought.
Except you might never have even gotten it into your cart under your scenario. Say they are 1000 coins available and 1000 bots and 1000 humans. Under the current system, everyone gets one in the cart but the bots check out first. Under your proposed system, the bots get 1000 coins into the cart first and you're still out of luck.
Because the sake aren't final until checkout, slow humans think they got it in their cart in time but you might have been the 4000th person putting one of the 1000 coins in your cart.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Reading all of this I'm glad that I sucked it up and got a 70 First Day before they were repriced up.
I hope it looks nice and is not a dud.
I'm not looking to get another.
Hopefully there are enough of the upcoming hot issues to let more folks get them.
I did learn from this. I think that I'll be in good shape to get what I want of the upcoming issues as long as I can be at a computer when they open.
I think that's a fair criticism, and I agree a cart timer by itself wouldn't solve the bot problem.
My point has never been that a timer prevents bots from getting items into carts first. If the bots are truly that much faster, then you're right—the timer doesn't change that.
What I'm suggesting is that a timer addresses a different issue: the collector who legitimately gets an item into their cart but loses it during checkout because of site lag, payment verification, a fraud alert, or some other delay.
In other words, I'm not presenting it as an anti-bot solution so much as a checkout-protection solution.
Would it eliminate every complaint? Of course not. We'd probably just trade "I lost it during checkout" for "I never got it into my cart." But for those who do manage to get one in their cart, a short reservation window would at least give them a realistic chance to complete the purchase.
The real anti-bot measures are things like stronger queue systems, account verification, purchase limits, CAPTCHA challenges, and bot detection. A cart timer is just one tool that could make the checkout experience a little fairer.
BST references available on request
But then people would use bots to repeatedly put inventory into bags and let it expire for the first 24 hours until the HHL is lifted and then they'd suck everything up in one big order.
Now that would be funny, although I don't think that would be a easy to do. The Mint would have 24 hours to diagnose the problem and apply countermeasures.
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Any method used to beat the rules is cheating plain and simple. Why things are so bad now.
When you buy a 70 you don’t always get a 70. Cheating on all sides of the industry.