@Creg said:
Do the inexperienced members in that forum ask you about beat up train cars and then argue with you, as well?
No. It is not about evaluating a model's condition. Q&A and discusions mostly center around prototypes, off the shelf parts, new releases by manufacturers and modeling methods to achieve prototype results in the models. Photos are shared of models and the work being done on them, but there is very little argument about them. Theres always an arquementative person around, but they are kind about it. If one is not kind and civil, they are warned once, and then expelled if they continue.
@Creg said:
Do the inexperienced members in that forum ask you about beat up train cars and then argue with you, as well?
No. It is not about evaluating a model's condition. Q&A and discusions mostly center around prototypes, off the shelf parts, new releases by manufacturers and modeling methods to achieve prototype results in the models. Photos are shared of models and the work being done on them, but there is very little argument about them. Theres always an arquementative person around, but they are kind about it. If one is not kind and civil, they are warned once, and then expelled if they continue.
@Creg said:
Do the inexperienced members in that forum ask you about beat up train cars and then argue with you, as well?
No. It is not about evaluating a model's condition. Q&A and discusions mostly center around prototypes, off the shelf parts, new releases by manufacturers and modeling methods to achieve prototype results in the models. Photos are shared of models and the work being done on them, but there is very little argument about them. Theres always an arquementative person around, but they are kind about it. If one is not kind and civil, they are warned once, and then expelled if they continue.
you describe heaven
I had to " kiss a few frogs before I found my prince".
There is an unbelieveable amount of forums and people, like this one here, out there. But, there are a few " heavens". You have to take the time with great patience to test and evaluate them. I'm almost done with this one.
" Have courage and be kind".
( Cinderella's mother's last words."
@Creg said:
Do the inexperienced members in that forum ask you about beat up train cars and then argue with you, as well?
No. It is not about evaluating a model's condition. Q&A and discusions mostly center around prototypes, off the shelf parts, new releases by manufacturers and modeling methods to achieve prototype results in the models. Photos are shared of models and the work being done on them, but there is very little argument about them. Theres always an arquementative person around, but they are kind about it. If one is not kind and civil, they are warned once, and then expelled if they continue.
you describe heaven
I had to " kiss a few frogs before I found my prince".
There is an unbelieveable amount of forums and people, like this one here, out there. But, there are a few " heavens". You have to take the time with great patience to test and evaluate them. I'm almost done with this one.
" Have courage and be kind".
( Cinderella's mother's last words."
It's your loss, but I imagine that you'll never realize how big a loss it is.
You probably have no idea that one of the people who took the time to give you a free assessment in this thread is one of the foremost experts on error coins. In fact, until he retired a few years ago, he was the one who evaluated errors submitted to PCGS. So, had you submitted your coin sooner, you would have paid for the same opinion that you got here for free.
You came here with a mix of legitimate error lingo (Improperly Annealed Planchet, MAD) and concocted terminology (Misaligned Clad Layer Alignment), so you obviously went somewhere for a tutorial. It's just unfortunate that you didn't start here.
@Creg said:
Do the inexperienced members in that forum ask you about beat up train cars and then argue with you, as well?
No. It is not about evaluating a model's condition. Q&A and discusions mostly center around prototypes, off the shelf parts, new releases by manufacturers and modeling methods to achieve prototype results in the models. Photos are shared of models and the work being done on them, but there is very little argument about them. Theres always an arquementative person around, but they are kind about it. If one is not kind and civil, they are warned once, and then expelled if they continue.
you describe heaven
I had to " kiss a few frogs before I found my prince".
There is an unbelieveable amount of forums and people, like this one here, out there. But, there are a few " heavens". You have to take the time with great patience to test and evaluate them. I'm almost done with this one.
" Have courage and be kind".
( Cinderella's mother's last words."
It's your loss, but I imagine that you'll never realize how big a loss it is.
You probably have no idea that one of the people who took the time to give you a free assessment in this thread is one of the foremost experts on error coins. In fact, until he retired a few years ago, he was the one who evaluated errors submitted to PCGS. So, had you submitted your coin sooner, you would have paid for the same opinion that you got here for free.
You came here with a mix of legitimate error lingo (Improperly Annealed Planchet, MAD) and concocted terminology (Misaligned Clad Layer Alignment), so you obviously went somewhere for a tutorial. It's just unfortunate that you didn't start here.
Perfect! Thank you...
You start with an assumption. Typical.
You support that false assumption with name-dropping and statistics to shock and awe.
You end with another assumption and 2 opions.
You should stop wasting your time. You are not going to get any satisfaction here, no matter who you are.
@Creg said:
Do the inexperienced members in that forum ask you about beat up train cars and then argue with you, as well?
No. It is not about evaluating a model's condition. Q&A and discusions mostly center around prototypes, off the shelf parts, new releases by manufacturers and modeling methods to achieve prototype results in the models. Photos are shared of models and the work being done on them, but there is very little argument about them. Theres always an arquementative person around, but they are kind about it. If one is not kind and civil, they are warned once, and then expelled if they continue.
you describe heaven
I had to " kiss a few frogs before I found my prince".
There is an unbelieveable amount of forums and people, like this one here, out there. But, there are a few " heavens". You have to take the time with great patience to test and evaluate them. I'm almost done with this one.
" Have courage and be kind".
( Cinderella's mother's last words."
It's your loss, but I imagine that you'll never realize how big a loss it is.
You probably have no idea that one of the people who took the time to give you a free assessment in this thread is one of the foremost experts on error coins. In fact, until he retired a few years ago, he was the one who evaluated errors submitted to PCGS. So, had you submitted your coin sooner, you would have paid for the same opinion that you got here for free.
You came here with a mix of legitimate error lingo (Improperly Annealed Planchet, MAD) and concocted terminology (Misaligned Clad Layer Alignment), so you obviously went somewhere for a tutorial. It's just unfortunate that you didn't start here.
Perfect! Thank you...
You start with an assumption. Typical.
You support that false assumption with name-dropping and statistics to shock and awe.
You end with another assumption and 2 opions.
You should stop wasting your time. You are not going to get any satisfaction here, no matter who you are.
@johnny9434 said:
Dont forget to send it in for cac when it gets back from grading
I’m guessing you were either being facetious or trying to be funny. Regardless, you were addressing a new poster, who might think you were being sincere.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@RedRocket said:
Let's all take a breath before anything regrettable or rude is stated.
Thank you.
No, thank you for allowing me to continue to be the voice of reason.
You asked an innocent and beginner's question and you immediately received less-than-thoughtful replies. I think perhaps many here have an axe to grind not so much with you but rather on the design elements of the coin itself. Sacawagea was and is an extremely controversial character in the fabric of this country and her likeness sparks resentments and discontent that is manifested in threads like this.
Case in point, when the "Speared Eagle" variety was discovered many cheered.
@Creg said:
Do the inexperienced members in that forum ask you about beat up train cars and then argue with you, as well?
No. It is not about evaluating a model's condition. Q&A and discusions mostly center around prototypes, off the shelf parts, new releases by manufacturers and modeling methods to achieve prototype results in the models. Photos are shared of models and the work being done on them, but there is very little argument about them. Theres always an arquementative person around, but they are kind about it. If one is not kind and civil, they are warned once, and then expelled if they continue.
you describe heaven
I had to " kiss a few frogs before I found my prince".
There is an unbelieveable amount of forums and people, like this one here, out there. But, there are a few " heavens". You have to take the time with great patience to test and evaluate them. I'm almost done with this one.
" Have courage and be kind".
( Cinderella's mother's last words."
It's your loss, but I imagine that you'll never realize how big a loss it is.
You probably have no idea that one of the people who took the time to give you a free assessment in this thread is one of the foremost experts on error coins. In fact, until he retired a few years ago, he was the one who evaluated errors submitted to PCGS. So, had you submitted your coin sooner, you would have paid for the same opinion that you got here for free.
You came here with a mix of legitimate error lingo (Improperly Annealed Planchet, MAD) and concocted terminology (Misaligned Clad Layer Alignment), so you obviously went somewhere for a tutorial. It's just unfortunate that you didn't start here.
Perfect! Thank you...
You start with an assumption. Typical.
You support that false assumption with name-dropping and statistics to shock and awe.
You end with another assumption and 2 opions.
You should stop wasting your time. You are not going to get any satisfaction here, no matter who you are.
To be fair, what he said is mostly true. I don't know about the "big loss", but Fred is as described. Your combativeness aside, all he was saying is that you can get a $65 opinion for free on this forum, if you choose to participate. That's a fact, not an assumption.
Are there a few curmudgeons here? Yes. It's really not that hard to ignore them. They are mostly fairly obvious.
You might also consider that, while you're sincere, we also see a lot of similar posts that are simple trolling. Some people shoot first and ask questions later. That's not to excuse them, but to explain them.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@Creg said:
Do the inexperienced members in that forum ask you about beat up train cars and then argue with you, as well?
No. It is not about evaluating a model's condition. Q&A and discusions mostly center around prototypes, off the shelf parts, new releases by manufacturers and modeling methods to achieve prototype results in the models. Photos are shared of models and the work being done on them, but there is very little argument about them. Theres always an arquementative person around, but they are kind about it. If one is not kind and civil, they are warned once, and then expelled if they continue.
you describe heaven
I had to " kiss a few frogs before I found my prince".
There is an unbelieveable amount of forums and people, like this one here, out there. But, there are a few " heavens". You have to take the time with great patience to test and evaluate them. I'm almost done with this one.
" Have courage and be kind".
( Cinderella's mother's last words."
It's your loss, but I imagine that you'll never realize how big a loss it is.
You probably have no idea that one of the people who took the time to give you a free assessment in this thread is one of the foremost experts on error coins. In fact, until he retired a few years ago, he was the one who evaluated errors submitted to PCGS. So, had you submitted your coin sooner, you would have paid for the same opinion that you got here for free.
You came here with a mix of legitimate error lingo (Improperly Annealed Planchet, MAD) and concocted terminology (Misaligned Clad Layer Alignment), so you obviously went somewhere for a tutorial. It's just unfortunate that you didn't start here.
Perfect! Thank you...
You start with an assumption. Typical.
You support that false assumption with name-dropping and statistics to shock and awe.
You end with another assumption and 2 opions.
You should stop wasting your time. You are not going to get any satisfaction here, no matter who you are.
To be fair, what he said is mostly true. I don't know about the "big loss", but Fred is as described. Your combativeness aside, all he was saying is that you can get a $65 opinion for free on this forum, if you choose to participate. That's a fact, not an assumption.
Are there a few curmudgeons here? Yes. It's really not that hard to ignore them. They are mostly fairly obvious.
You might also consider that, while you're sincere, we also see a lot of similar posts that are simple trolling. Some people shoot first and ask questions later. That's not to excuse them, but to explain them.
That was fair. All of it.
Thanks for the segue.
I belived he was describing the man accurately. I was just saving time and space with my typing.
I have a lot to learn about today's numismatic world, and I do need to save money. Besides the joy of sharing, that's why I am here.
Opinions that are constructive and advance my quest for knowledge are wonderful, and I have gotten them in this thread. I am thankful for that. One case in point: someone referenced a flat edge on the coin that made me inspect closer and take some photos of the edge. I thought he may have been referring to the anomaly evident at about 8:30 on the reverse, so I staged the coin on edge, and shot that point and the edge directly across from it. Not only do they show a MS RD core, evenly all around the coin, but that the anomly is isolated in the clad layer. I am very glad he made that post, no matter how he did it. I thank him. The photos bolster the "Planchet error/Uneven Clad Layer" hypothesis, IMO.
Unfortunatly, it will likely take another day to process them before I can share, due to a physical health issue I am experiencing right now.
I'm sending it in. The submission is done and I'm preparing the box. I need the best protection and I need the best imaging now - Trueview's advanced XRF, macro photography, focus stacking software, and specialized, multi-angle lighting. The grade and their FMV don't matter. I need the results of their mint error service so I know how to proceed with the coin. If they don't recognize the error, that's OK. The slab and those images are worth $100 to us. It looks like I did not make myself clear enough on this. I will work harder on that.
@dcfixer said:
Unfortunatly, it will likely take another day to process them before I can share, due to a physical health issue I am experiencing right now.
The coin is obviously evil. It is stealing your money, your health, and your sanity.
Best to throw it in the garbage right away. It's only worth $1, and by throwing it away, you'll save far more than that in submission fees. I also have a feeling your health will improve as soon as the coin hits the trash.
Way out of linear tolerance for any machine used in making coins in 2000. If PCGS does not validate the error, then I have learned what I have suspected all along about the claims that they discover and publish new varieties and errors.
Thank you for your help, and happy coin collecting.
Way out of linear tolerance for any machine used in making coins in 2000. If PCGS does not validate the error, then I have learned what I have suspected all along about the claims that they discover and publish new varieties and errors.
...which is that you are mistaken and have a lot left to learn?
Or that all of the experts in the world are wrong and only you are correct?
Way out of linear tolerance for any machine used in making coins in 2000. If PCGS does not validate the error, then I have learned what I have suspected all along about the claims that they discover and publish new varieties and errors.
Thank you for your help, and happy coin collecting.
Don
You state that you are not a collector, I’m curious, when did you start to suspect about the claims that they discover and publish new varieties and errors?
If you want photos, why not pay one of the excellent photographers in the forum? The results can be superior to True Views.
Not exactly sure what you mean by “linear tolerance’,
But I’m guessing you’re referring to the damage on the coin and it’s edge.
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
@FredWeinberg said:
Not exactly sure what you mean by “linear tolerance’,
But I’m guessing you’re referring to the damage on the coin and it’s edge.
I think he's referring to the clad layers. He seems to think they should be equal thickness.
...or at least consistent thickness. The picture on the left might show a slight bulge. I'm not sure that's what I'm looking at.
I've never heard of any sort of tolerance values for clad layer thickness. There are overall numbers, for sure. I think the copper layer in clad coinage is supposed to be 25% of the total? Something like that. I assume that the thickness is mostly uniform most of the time... but I don't think there's anything at the Mint that even tries to enforce that.
Way out of linear tolerance for any machine used in making coins in 2000. If PCGS does not validate the error, then I have learned what I have suspected all along about the claims that they discover and publish new varieties and errors.
Thank you for your help, and happy coin collecting.
Don
That's quite normal. Look at a bunch of Sacs. You'll see the same thing with dimes and quarters. The layers LOOK like they are of all different thickness, but that's because you're only looking at the surface.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
On a positive note, the OP's photos are decent, and he is detailed in what he is looking at and the answers he is seeking.
(Many new members do not express themselves as well.)
On a not-so-positive-note, the information he is receiving is also on-point and expressed in easy-to-understand terms, yet the OP continues to either ignore what is stated completely or bickers with the expert conclusions.
It is an interesting tactic on his part, and I look forward to a conclusion.
@RedRocket said:
Sacawagea was and is an extremely controversial character in the fabric of this country and her likeness sparks resentments and discontent that is manifested in threads like this.
Interesting point that prompted me to study up a bit. I was not previously fully aware of the controversy but it makes sense given the historical period.
The effect is the same as clad coinage – the center copper core looks like it’s closer to one side instead of being properly centered – it’s the result of the blank being punched out of the strip.
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
@FredWeinberg said:
The effect is the same as clad coinage – the center copper core looks like it’s closer to one side instead of being properly centered – it’s the result of the blank being punched out of the strip.
Here is a group of quarters I grabbed out of my change jar. Not only is the width of the copper core variable on the edge, it also appears there are only two clad layers instead of three. FWIW...
as the blank is being punched , the metal is smeared - flows- in the direction of the punch. as stated earlier. sometimes the lad layer will smear over the copper and appear to have no core.
Everybody in this obese thread was right. There are no errors visible in the original photo I posted. It finally sunk in with the last 3 posts on May 29th.
I have made a lot of mistakes in this exercise, but the biggest one was posting at all, at this time. Every word I have typed here has been done on my cell phone, lying flat on my back - typo after typo after typo... I have been in that position 80-90% of my life for the last 3 weeks, and I am bored sh%tless. Combined with my ignorance and all the static I have received in this thread, I am just as responsible for this monstrosity than anyone else. I humbly appologize. It's been a long time since have felt this foolish, but I asked for it. I do not need, and am not seaking sympathy. I've been here before. These are just my excuses to explain my behavior.
I am expected to man the layout and exhibit at the SDMRA Museum all day on the 9th. I have doubts that I will recover enough by then. On top of that, I'm worn out from all the fat finger typing, gaming/tactics and stress lately. Again, nobody's fault but my own. So, I will be leaving the forum for awhile, probably till I get the final grade and images online from PCGS. I have changed my email address, and must stop logging in. What I do, I do out of necessity.
Before I go, I have another request concerning errors. Hopeful the static has cleared, for awhile at least. If you can zoom in tight enough on the anomaly at 8:30 on the reverse, using the last photo I put up, I would appreciate your expert opinion on what you see. My wife, who found this coin, immediately said the explosion of clad metal under the bump looked like a "basket of flowers". I have named it "Sacagawea's flower basket". It is gorgeous, in my family's opinion.
FYI, this took me almost 2 hours to compose. I can't keep this up anymore.
@dcfixer said:
Everybody in this obese thread was right. There are no errors visible in the original photo I posted. It finally sunk in with the last 3 posts on May 29th.
I have made a lot of mistakes in this exercise, but the biggest one was posting at all, at this time. Every word I have typed here has been done on my cell phone, lying flat on my back - typo after typo after typo... I have been in that position 80-90% of my life for the last 3 weeks, and I am bored sh%tless. Combined with my ignorance and all the static I have received in this thread, I am just as responsible for this monstrosity than anyone else. I humbly appologize. It's been a long time since have felt this foolish, but I asked for it. I do not need, and am not seaking sympathy. I've been here before. These are just my excuses to explain my behavior.
I am expected to man the layout and exhibit at the SDMRA Museum all day on the 9th. I have doubts that I will recover enough by then. On top of that, I'm worn out from all the fat finger typing, gaming/tactics and stress lately. Again, nobody's fault but my own. So, I will be leaving the forum for awhile, probably till I get the final grade and images online from PCGS. I have changed my email address, and must stop logging in. What I do, I do out of necessity.
Before I go, I have another request concerning errors. Hopeful the static has cleared, for awhile at least. If you can zoom in tight enough on the anomaly at 8:30 on the reverse, using the last photo I put up, I would appreciate your expert opinion on what you see. My wife, who found this coin, immediately said the explosion of clad metal under the bump looked like a "basket of flowers". I have named it "Sacagawea's flower basket". It is gorgeous, in my family's opinion.
FYI, this took me almost 2 hours to compose. I can't keep this up anymore.
Please take care out there,
Don
Right when PCGS just awarded you your first star.
Yours is quite the exit.
Godspeed @dcfixer
It's been a blessing knowing you.
Years from now Numismatists from all over the globe will continue to speak in hush tones of your contributions to this hobby.
I’m a little late with this gif since we’re past the “denial” and “anger” part of this arc and we’re almost out of the woods with “depression” and on the brink of “acceptance”. It’s been amusing and I’d like to thank everyone for their contributions, and the OP for the sincere self - reflection. I look forward to any further revelations but i must leave this here, timing be damned-
@dcfixer said:
Everybody in this obese thread was right. There are no errors visible in the original photo I posted. It finally sunk in with the last 3 posts on May 29th.
I have made a lot of mistakes in this exercise, but the biggest one was posting at all, at this time. Every word I have typed here has been done on my cell phone, lying flat on my back - typo after typo after typo... I have been in that position 80-90% of my life for the last 3 weeks, and I am bored sh%tless. Combined with my ignorance and all the static I have received in this thread, I am just as responsible for this monstrosity than anyone else. I humbly appologize. It's been a long time since have felt this foolish, but I asked for it. I do not need, and am not seaking sympathy. I've been here before. These are just my excuses to explain my behavior.
I am expected to man the layout and exhibit at the SDMRA Museum all day on the 9th. I have doubts that I will recover enough by then. On top of that, I'm worn out from all the fat finger typing, gaming/tactics and stress lately. Again, nobody's fault but my own. So, I will be leaving the forum for awhile, probably till I get the final grade and images online from PCGS. I have changed my email address, and must stop logging in. What I do, I do out of necessity.
Before I go, I have another request concerning errors. Hopeful the static has cleared, for awhile at least. If you can zoom in tight enough on the anomaly at 8:30 on the reverse, using the last photo I put up, I would appreciate your expert opinion on what you see. My wife, who found this coin, immediately said the explosion of clad metal under the bump looked like a "basket of flowers". I have named it "Sacagawea's flower basket". It is gorgeous, in my family's opinion.
FYI, this took me almost 2 hours to compose. I can't keep this up anymore.
Pareidolia is the psychological phenomenon where your brain perceives meaningful patterns—most commonly faces—in random or ambiguous visual or auditory stimuli. It is a harmless, everyday experience—like seeing a smiling face on the front of a car or spotting animals in cloud formations.
@PeakRarities said:
I’m a little late with this gif since we’re past the “denial” and “anger” part of this arc and we’re almost out of the woods with “depression” and on the brink of “acceptance”.
As long as the wife doesnt' catch me, I think I can sneak in once and awhile
I'm very happy about what I am seeing and not seeing. Thank you for the words and acts of kindess and well being. Much greatly appreciated.
I am fine and getting stronger every day. Nothing anyone has said in this thread has made me angry. I'm married to my best friend, and affordably live in 1 of the top 2 climates on the planet. Got a wonderful family. I have no reason to be depressed. It's been so long, I don't know what that feels like.
As far as the star, it showed the moment I logged in for the first time.
Civil War and California gold. Yum. Thanks for the read.
I'm very happy about what I am seeing and not seeing. Thank you for the words and acts of kindess and well being. Much greatly appreciated.
I am fine and getting stronger every day. Nothing anyone has said in this thread has made me angry. I'm married to my best friend, and affordably live in 1 of the top 2 climates on the planet. Got a wonderful family. I have no reason to be depressed. It's been so long, I don't know what that feels like.
As far as the star, it showed the moment I logged in for the first time.
Civil War and California gold. Yum. Thanks for the read.
Welcome back!
I am glad your self-loathing is over and you've decided to return.
She's on the way to Newport Beach. In the submission comments I practically begged for their best imaging, including the edge. "Please treat her like she was a one-off error coin". I said I would pay 10x the normal TrueView fee.
Awhile back, I checked a couple of local macro commercial photographers in my area about a full 3-shot hi-res set of her. $200 - $400. So, $150 for what I requested gets me the images, grade and slab.
Turnaround time was estimated at 2 months. It's going to seem like 2 years.
@dcfixer said:
She's on the way to Newport Beach. In the submission comments I practically begged for their best imaging, including the edge. "Please treat her like she was a one-off error coin". I said I would pay 10x the normal TrueView fee.
Awhile back, I checked a couple of local macro commercial photographers in my area about a full 3-shot hi-res set of her. $200 - $400. So, $150 for what I requested gets me the images, grade and slab.
Turnaround time was estimated at 2 months. It's going to seem like 2 years.
Did a little more art work:
>
Glad you decided to stick around.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Well, I admire his tenacity for sure!... if focused in the right direction.
I've looked close at this coin (and I'm not an expert) for any other damage, errors, anomalies or varieties.
Unfortunately, his determination, resilience, and unyielding perseverance, allowing him to withstand pressure and overcome obstacles will most likely not pay off in this instance.
However, its a quality you absolutely need in this numismatic world to get something done or recognized. Maybe not with errors but new and significant varieties.
We all hope you’re not disappointed when you get the coin back from PCGS
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
Comments
@dcfixer - This is a test. Can you name a few of the significant anomalies with these Sacagawea dollars?
HINT: Google is your friend.
back off a bit and let him get things slowly. they will come imo
No. It is not about evaluating a model's condition. Q&A and discusions mostly center around prototypes, off the shelf parts, new releases by manufacturers and modeling methods to achieve prototype results in the models. Photos are shared of models and the work being done on them, but there is very little argument about them. Theres always an arquementative person around, but they are kind about it. If one is not kind and civil, they are warned once, and then expelled if they continue.
you describe heaven
I had to " kiss a few frogs before I found my prince".
There is an unbelieveable amount of forums and people, like this one here, out there. But, there are a few " heavens". You have to take the time with great patience to test and evaluate them. I'm almost done with this one.
" Have courage and be kind".
( Cinderella's mother's last words."
Perhaps you didn't have the ear for it.
It's your loss, but I imagine that you'll never realize how big a loss it is.
You probably have no idea that one of the people who took the time to give you a free assessment in this thread is one of the foremost experts on error coins. In fact, until he retired a few years ago, he was the one who evaluated errors submitted to PCGS. So, had you submitted your coin sooner, you would have paid for the same opinion that you got here for free.
You came here with a mix of legitimate error lingo (Improperly Annealed Planchet, MAD) and concocted terminology (Misaligned Clad Layer Alignment), so you obviously went somewhere for a tutorial. It's just unfortunate that you didn't start here.
Perfect! Thank you...
You start with an assumption. Typical.
You support that false assumption with name-dropping and statistics to shock and awe.
You end with another assumption and 2 opions.
You should stop wasting your time. You are not going to get any satisfaction here, no matter who you are.
The perfect description for yourself. 😆
Let's all take a breath before anything regrettable or rude is stated.
Thank you.
JB! Did you consume all the opions?
That’s an assumption.
I’m guessing you were either being facetious or trying to be funny. Regardless, you were addressing a new poster, who might think you were being sincere.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
No, thank you for allowing me to continue to be the voice of reason.
You asked an innocent and beginner's question and you immediately received less-than-thoughtful replies. I think perhaps many here have an axe to grind not so much with you but rather on the design elements of the coin itself. Sacawagea was and is an extremely controversial character in the fabric of this country and her likeness sparks resentments and discontent that is manifested in threads like this.
Case in point, when the "Speared Eagle" variety was discovered many cheered.
To be fair, what he said is mostly true. I don't know about the "big loss", but Fred is as described. Your combativeness aside, all he was saying is that you can get a $65 opinion for free on this forum, if you choose to participate. That's a fact, not an assumption.
Are there a few curmudgeons here? Yes. It's really not that hard to ignore them. They are mostly fairly obvious.
You might also consider that, while you're sincere, we also see a lot of similar posts that are simple trolling. Some people shoot first and ask questions later. That's not to excuse them, but to explain them.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
No, they aren’t! 😄
witty quote goes here
I agree.
That was fair. All of it.
Thanks for the segue.
I belived he was describing the man accurately. I was just saving time and space with my typing.
I have a lot to learn about today's numismatic world, and I do need to save money. Besides the joy of sharing, that's why I am here.
Opinions that are constructive and advance my quest for knowledge are wonderful, and I have gotten them in this thread. I am thankful for that. One case in point: someone referenced a flat edge on the coin that made me inspect closer and take some photos of the edge. I thought he may have been referring to the anomaly evident at about 8:30 on the reverse, so I staged the coin on edge, and shot that point and the edge directly across from it. Not only do they show a MS RD core, evenly all around the coin, but that the anomly is isolated in the clad layer. I am very glad he made that post, no matter how he did it. I thank him. The photos bolster the "Planchet error/Uneven Clad Layer" hypothesis, IMO.
Unfortunatly, it will likely take another day to process them before I can share, due to a physical health issue I am experiencing right now.
I'm sending it in. The submission is done and I'm preparing the box. I need the best protection and I need the best imaging now - Trueview's advanced XRF, macro photography, focus stacking software, and specialized, multi-angle lighting. The grade and their FMV don't matter. I need the results of their mint error service so I know how to proceed with the coin. If they don't recognize the error, that's OK. The slab and those images are worth $100 to us. It looks like I did not make myself clear enough on this. I will work harder on that.
they will recognize a missing clad layer
an xrf won't get you anything but a metal content
The coin is obviously evil. It is stealing your money, your health, and your sanity.
Best to throw it in the garbage right away. It's only worth $1, and by throwing it away, you'll save far more than that in submission fees. I also have a feeling your health will improve as soon as the coin hits the trash.
Way out of linear tolerance for any machine used in making coins in 2000. If PCGS does not validate the error, then I have learned what I have suspected all along about the claims that they discover and publish new varieties and errors.
Thank you for your help, and happy coin collecting.
Don
...which is that you are mistaken and have a lot left to learn?
Or that all of the experts in the world are wrong and only you are correct?
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
You state that you are not a collector, I’m curious, when did you start to suspect about the claims that they discover and publish new varieties and errors?
If you want photos, why not pay one of the excellent photographers in the forum? The results can be superior to True Views.
Not exactly sure what you mean by “linear tolerance’,
But I’m guessing you’re referring to the damage on the coin and it’s edge.
I think he's referring to the clad layers. He seems to think they should be equal thickness.
...or at least consistent thickness. The picture on the left might show a slight bulge. I'm not sure that's what I'm looking at.
I've never heard of any sort of tolerance values for clad layer thickness. There are overall numbers, for sure. I think the copper layer in clad coinage is supposed to be 25% of the total? Something like that. I assume that the thickness is mostly uniform most of the time... but I don't think there's anything at the Mint that even tries to enforce that.
This is how he originally described it:
You're welcome.
That's quite normal. Look at a bunch of Sacs. You'll see the same thing with dimes and quarters. The layers LOOK like they are of all different thickness, but that's because you're only looking at the surface.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
On a positive note, the OP's photos are decent, and he is detailed in what he is looking at and the answers he is seeking.
(Many new members do not express themselves as well.)
On a not-so-positive-note, the information he is receiving is also on-point and expressed in easy-to-understand terms, yet the OP continues to either ignore what is stated completely or bickers with the expert conclusions.
It is an interesting tactic on his part, and I look forward to a conclusion.
Interesting point that prompted me to study up a bit. I was not previously fully aware of the controversy but it makes sense given the historical period.
Come on @MWallace , this is your lane.
The effect is the same as clad coinage – the center copper core looks like it’s closer to one side instead of being properly centered – it’s the result of the blank being punched out of the strip.
Here is a group of quarters I grabbed out of my change jar. Not only is the width of the copper core variable on the edge, it also appears there are only two clad layers instead of three. FWIW...
as the blank is being punched , the metal is smeared - flows- in the direction of the punch. as stated earlier. sometimes the lad layer will smear over the copper and appear to have no core.
Everybody in this obese thread was right. There are no errors visible in the original photo I posted. It finally sunk in with the last 3 posts on May 29th.
I have made a lot of mistakes in this exercise, but the biggest one was posting at all, at this time. Every word I have typed here has been done on my cell phone, lying flat on my back - typo after typo after typo... I have been in that position 80-90% of my life for the last 3 weeks, and I am bored sh%tless. Combined with my ignorance and all the static I have received in this thread, I am just as responsible for this monstrosity than anyone else. I humbly appologize. It's been a long time since have felt this foolish, but I asked for it. I do not need, and am not seaking sympathy. I've been here before. These are just my excuses to explain my behavior.
I am expected to man the layout and exhibit at the SDMRA Museum all day on the 9th. I have doubts that I will recover enough by then. On top of that, I'm worn out from all the fat finger typing, gaming/tactics and stress lately. Again, nobody's fault but my own. So, I will be leaving the forum for awhile, probably till I get the final grade and images online from PCGS. I have changed my email address, and must stop logging in. What I do, I do out of necessity.
Before I go, I have another request concerning errors. Hopeful the static has cleared, for awhile at least. If you can zoom in tight enough on the anomaly at 8:30 on the reverse, using the last photo I put up, I would appreciate your expert opinion on what you see. My wife, who found this coin, immediately said the explosion of clad metal under the bump looked like a "basket of flowers". I have named it "Sacagawea's flower basket". It is gorgeous, in my family's opinion.
FYI, this took me almost 2 hours to compose. I can't keep this up anymore.
Please take care out there,
Don
Right when PCGS just awarded you your first star.
Yours is quite the exit.
Godspeed @dcfixer
It's been a blessing knowing you.
Years from now Numismatists from all over the globe will continue to speak in hush tones of your contributions to this hobby.
Thank you for the words, that’s hard to do. Don’t drop out, read threads. Good luck.
I’m a little late with this gif since we’re past the “denial” and “anger” part of this arc and we’re almost out of the woods with “depression” and on the brink of “acceptance”. It’s been amusing and I’d like to thank everyone for their contributions, and the OP for the sincere self - reflection. I look forward to any further revelations but i must leave this here, timing be damned-
Founder- Peak Rarities
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stick around.
you're fine.
at least keep reading
lots of good stuff out there
I recently found out about this https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/14103978/#Comment_14103978
and this: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/14103986/#Comment_14103986
as for the flower basket, i don't see it:
i can guess it is a case of pareidola.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia
Pareidolia is the psychological phenomenon where your brain perceives meaningful patterns—most commonly faces—in random or ambiguous visual or auditory stimuli. It is a harmless, everyday experience—like seeing a smiling face on the front of a car or spotting animals in cloud formations.
Too bad he relapsed at the end.
As long as the wife doesnt' catch me, I think I can sneak in once and awhile
I'm very happy about what I am seeing and not seeing. Thank you for the words and acts of kindess and well being. Much greatly appreciated.
I am fine and getting stronger every day. Nothing anyone has said in this thread has made me angry. I'm married to my best friend, and affordably live in 1 of the top 2 climates on the planet. Got a wonderful family. I have no reason to be depressed. It's been so long, I don't know what that feels like.
As far as the star, it showed the moment I logged in for the first time.
Civil War and California gold. Yum. Thanks for the read.
Welcome back!
I am glad your self-loathing is over and you've decided to return.
Looks like a bunch of garbage sitting on the state of Iowa.
She's on the way to Newport Beach. In the submission comments I practically begged for their best imaging, including the edge. "Please treat her like she was a one-off error coin". I said I would pay 10x the normal TrueView fee.
Awhile back, I checked a couple of local macro commercial photographers in my area about a full 3-shot hi-res set of her. $200 - $400. So, $150 for what I requested gets me the images, grade and slab.
Turnaround time was estimated at 2 months. It's going to seem like 2 years.
Did a little more art work:
>
Glad you decided to stick around.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Well, I admire his tenacity for sure!... if focused in the right direction.
I've looked close at this coin (and I'm not an expert) for any other damage, errors, anomalies or varieties.
Unfortunately, his determination, resilience, and unyielding perseverance, allowing him to withstand pressure and overcome obstacles will most likely not pay off in this instance.
However, its a quality you absolutely need in this numismatic world to get something done or recognized. Maybe not with errors but new and significant varieties.
We all hope you’re not disappointed when you get the coin back from PCGS
A fool and his money are soon parted.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.