@2dueces said:
I’d like to see Justin Jefferson as a Bill. Chances of that happening are about the same as Jacoby Brissett, Geno Smith or Kyler Murray leading their team to a Super Bowl.
Minnesota had their QB, 14 wins and two really bad games and let him go. That move was one of the worst moves in NFL history. Now they’re scrambling with a QB who can’t stay healthy and a QB that hasn’t looked good for 3 years.
JJ to the Bills please!!
Jefferson isn't going anywhere!
HUGE mistake not signing Daniel Jones after Darnold left. I don't think we could have afforded to sign, or franchise, Darnold. Vikings had to get rid of three veteran starters on defense just to get under the cap.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@craig44 said:
we seem to have a few vikings fans here. I dont really have an NFC team that i root for, maybe i will pull for MIN this season! I would like to see Jefferson get back on track and have a big season.
Id like to see Murry win the job to get the WRs back on track. A lot of reports are saying the QB job is a true competition and no one has been given the job
I'm assuming the Vikings are still hoping McCarthy develops. I know you don't think he will.
Not sure what they do if JJ fails and Murray flourishes. Kyler will be in line for a HUGE raise and I don't think we can afford him. Gutting the defense is never a good thing. They already have gotten rid of three veterans on the line. Better hope at least one of the rookie draft picks can be a star player.
I think the front office is trying to defend their decision to use such a high pick but I dont think the coaching staff likes him as a player.
They do have a window right now with their weapons where they can keep saving guys careers and not be able to resign them. Theyre going to either need to get real bad or make some massive trade in the draft. They really are almost in a lose lose where if a QB is good they cant afford to resign them.
Im a little surprised they didnt try and take a chance with Pavia. I know hes viewed as Manzell 2.0 off the field which is part of the reason he went undrafted (he also likely told teams not to use a late pick on him) but he signed with the Ravens in basically no time for 3 years 3 mil with no guaranteed money or signing bonus.
@craig44 said:
we seem to have a few vikings fans here. I dont really have an NFC team that i root for, maybe i will pull for MIN this season! I would like to see Jefferson get back on track and have a big season.
Id like to see Murry win the job to get the WRs back on track. A lot of reports are saying the QB job is a true competition and no one has been given the job
I'm assuming the Vikings are still hoping McCarthy develops. I know you don't think he will.
Not sure what they do if JJ fails and Murray flourishes. Kyler will be in line for a HUGE raise and I don't think we can afford him. Gutting the defense is never a good thing. They already have gotten rid of three veterans on the line. Better hope at least one of the rookie draft picks can be a star player.
I think the front office is trying to defend their decision to use such a high pick but I dont think the coaching staff likes him as a player.
They do have a window right now with their weapons where they can keep saving guys careers and not be able to resign them. Theyre going to either need to get real bad or make some massive trade in the draft. They really are almost in a lose lose where if a QB is good they cant afford to resign them.
Im a little surprised they didnt try and take a chance with Pavia. I know hes viewed as Manzell 2.0 off the field which is part of the reason he went undrafted (he also likely told teams not to use a late pick on him) but he signed with the Ravens in basically no time for 3 years 3 mil with no guaranteed money or signing bonus.
Our Head Coach is supposed to be some kind of Quarterback guru. He hasn't worked any magic on McCarthy. As I have said in the past, McCarthy looked better at the end of last year than at the beginning, against mostly below average defenses.
It was enough to give me hope. I don't have any idea what the coaches think of him, but the head coach might want to adjust the offense a bit instead of asking a rookie to perform like a veteran behind a leaky line.
I think O'Connell is an idiot. His game plan seems to be a lot of downfield passing and slower developing routes.
Great plan if you have a decent and healthy offensive line. we had neither last year to go with a raw, rookie QB.
We did draft an O-Line guy. Picked about 100th overall. Probably less than a 35% chance he will be a solid starter, but he is supposed to be "NFL ready" as a pass blocker. We'll see.
It's great to have all these great (?) receivers, but if the quarterback is getting obliterated, I don't see much of a point.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@craig44 said:
we seem to have a few vikings fans here. I dont really have an NFC team that i root for, maybe i will pull for MIN this season! I would like to see Jefferson get back on track and have a big season.
Id like to see Murry win the job to get the WRs back on track. A lot of reports are saying the QB job is a true competition and no one has been given the job
I'm assuming the Vikings are still hoping McCarthy develops. I know you don't think he will.
Not sure what they do if JJ fails and Murray flourishes. Kyler will be in line for a HUGE raise and I don't think we can afford him. Gutting the defense is never a good thing. They already have gotten rid of three veterans on the line. Better hope at least one of the rookie draft picks can be a star player.
I think the front office is trying to defend their decision to use such a high pick but I dont think the coaching staff likes him as a player.
They do have a window right now with their weapons where they can keep saving guys careers and not be able to resign them. Theyre going to either need to get real bad or make some massive trade in the draft. They really are almost in a lose lose where if a QB is good they cant afford to resign them.
Im a little surprised they didnt try and take a chance with Pavia. I know hes viewed as Manzell 2.0 off the field which is part of the reason he went undrafted (he also likely told teams not to use a late pick on him) but he signed with the Ravens in basically no time for 3 years 3 mil with no guaranteed money or signing bonus.
Our Head Coach is supposed to be some kind of Quarterback guru. He hasn't worked any magic on McCarthy. As I have said in the past, McCarthy looked better at the end of last year than at the beginning, against mostly below average defenses.
It was enough to give me hope. I don't have any idea what the coaches think of him, but the head coach might want to adjust the offense a bit instead of asking a rookie to perform like a veteran behind a leaky line.
I think O'Connell is an idiot. His game plan seems to be a lot of downfield passing and slower developing routes.
Great plan if you have a decent and healthy offensive line. we had neither last year to go with a raw, rookie QB.
We did draft an O-Line guy. Picked about 100th overall. Probably less than a 35% chance he will be a solid starter, but he is supposed to be "NFL ready" as a pass blocker. We'll see.
It's great to have all these great (?) receivers, but if the quarterback is getting obliterated, I don't see much of a point.
I dont really have a strong opinion on O'Connell one way or another but there have been comments and sort of a quiet benching of McCarthy just saying his injury keeps him out.
I do get trying to do more down field stuff as Jefferson and Addison are more down field guys. Murry can move around more and did basically just throw long balls in college at Oklahoma. Was certainly a few years ago but he dose seem like the better fit for what they have.
Northwestern does put some good linemen in the league. Tiernan probably wont be a top tackle but a lot of scouts think he could be a very good guard moving him inside. I dont know if they will do that but they have options with him and his size
@2dueces said:
I’d like to see Justin Jefferson as a Bill. Chances of that happening are about the same as Jacoby Brissett, Geno Smith or Kyler Murray leading their team to a Super Bowl.
Minnesota had their QB, 14 wins and two really bad games and let him go. That move was one of the worst moves in NFL history. Now they’re scrambling with a QB who can’t stay healthy and a QB that hasn’t looked good for 3 years.
JJ to the Bills please!!
Minnesota deserves what they get
I will say the same thing about the Bills once Josh Allen retires without a super bowl and everyone looks back saying "Well he had Stefon Diggs, I can't think of any other WR though"
It took Diggs 3 more years to final mature as a person. The Patriots got the best of his personality although diminished ability. He was a detriment to the locker room and sideline in Buffalo. Trying to force him the ball to keep him happy and then in the biggest game dropped an easy ball costing the bills another playoff game.
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
@craig44 said:
we seem to have a few vikings fans here. I dont really have an NFC team that i root for, maybe i will pull for MIN this season! I would like to see Jefferson get back on track and have a big season.
Id like to see Murry win the job to get the WRs back on track. A lot of reports are saying the QB job is a true competition and no one has been given the job
I'm assuming the Vikings are still hoping McCarthy develops. I know you don't think he will.
Not sure what they do if JJ fails and Murray flourishes. Kyler will be in line for a HUGE raise and I don't think we can afford him. Gutting the defense is never a good thing. They already have gotten rid of three veterans on the line. Better hope at least one of the rookie draft picks can be a star player.
I think the front office is trying to defend their decision to use such a high pick but I dont think the coaching staff likes him as a player.
They do have a window right now with their weapons where they can keep saving guys careers and not be able to resign them. Theyre going to either need to get real bad or make some massive trade in the draft. They really are almost in a lose lose where if a QB is good they cant afford to resign them.
Im a little surprised they didnt try and take a chance with Pavia. I know hes viewed as Manzell 2.0 off the field which is part of the reason he went undrafted (he also likely told teams not to use a late pick on him) but he signed with the Ravens in basically no time for 3 years 3 mil with no guaranteed money or signing bonus.
Our Head Coach is supposed to be some kind of Quarterback guru. He hasn't worked any magic on McCarthy. As I have said in the past, McCarthy looked better at the end of last year than at the beginning, against mostly below average defenses.
It was enough to give me hope. I don't have any idea what the coaches think of him, but the head coach might want to adjust the offense a bit instead of asking a rookie to perform like a veteran behind a leaky line.
I think O'Connell is an idiot. His game plan seems to be a lot of downfield passing and slower developing routes.
Great plan if you have a decent and healthy offensive line. we had neither last year to go with a raw, rookie QB.
We did draft an O-Line guy. Picked about 100th overall. Probably less than a 35% chance he will be a solid starter, but he is supposed to be "NFL ready" as a pass blocker. We'll see.
It's great to have all these great (?) receivers, but if the quarterback is getting obliterated, I don't see much of a point.
I dont really have a strong opinion on O'Connell one way or another but there have been comments and sort of a quiet benching of McCarthy just saying his injury keeps him out.
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I have been watching the Vikings since the 1960's and even played a little High School football. Too small to play College. I think I have a fairly good grasp of the game. O'Connell has made quite a few absolutely bone headed decisions in my opinion that have had me irritated. We're stuck with him for now, so not much I can say. His refusal to install some shorter routes when the O-Line is crippled with injury (or are just bad at pass blocking) makes me crazy.
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I do get trying to do more down field stuff as Jefferson and Addison are more down field guys. Murry can move around more and did basically just throw long balls in college at Oklahoma. Was certainly a few years ago but he dose seem like the better fit for what they have.
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Murray certainly has some athletic ability, but he also has injury problems of late and he's pretty short. If his running/scrambling ability is diminished, I don't think he's a pocket passer, but you never know.
As I mentioned, if Murray wins the starting job and has a good or great season, where does that leave the Vikings?
I'm no expert on the cap, but we unloaded a bunch of salary this year while paying almost nothing for the highest paid position in football. How do we afford him? The Vikings must have the most injury prone group of QB's in the league with Murray, McCarthy and Wentz, and for the hundredth time, not a good pass blocking O-Line.
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Northwestern does put some good linemen in the league. Tiernan probably wont be a top tackle but a lot of scouts think he could be a very good guard moving him inside. I dont know if they will do that but they have options with him and his size
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I went back, and from 2004-2023, in looking at all the Vikings draft picks, they have chosen ONE very good offensive lineman in that entire time, Brian O'Neil. That #4 overall on Matt Kalil still stings! Can't say on Darrisaw, he's good, but he needs to get healthy, or he's a bust.
From 2004-2023 the Vikings have had 22 1st round picks and 7 have been good to great choices. they had ONE year, 2015 where 3 players were good choices and one of them, Diggs, was traded because he was insane. I recently heard a Vikings blogger say "If all 6 Vikings draft picks are good, we'll be a very good team". My answer is "Are you delusional?" That has never happened here. Probably anywhere else either.
I have heard this new guy from Northwestern can really pass block, and have also heard speculation that he might be moved to guard. He has really short arms though. LOL
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
It does appear that the Vikings push downfield more - McCarthy's average target depth is 9.5 yards which is close to the league leaders (around 10-11). He also held the ball for 3.01 seconds on average which is considerable longer than the league average. So on one hand the Vikings want him to make more difficult throws downfield, but only on the outside, because they don't let McCarthy throw over the middle of the field - and on the other... he's not very good at throwing the football - relative to other QBs. So yeah they could dink and dunk like with Maye at 5 YPA and he would probably be more successful. There is a bit of a contradiction with PFR's data regarding "Intended air yards" - I guess McCarthy misses a lot of check-downs.
The Vikings line actually ranks pretty good statistically - Top 10. The general assessment I see for McCarthy in this data is that the line was average to above-average, but McCarthy holds the ball way too long and his progression is poor. This tracks with what I have heard about him - front office and coaching staff doesn't have any faith in him.
I'm not a football expert, but that's OK because this is a math problem.
i find it interesting that Joe B seems to be so soured on O'Connell when many talking heads consider him to be a QB whisperer. i conducted a little digging myself. the Vikes went 13-4 with Cousins, 14-3 with Darnold, 9-8 with J.J. McCarthy in what was by far KOC's most miserable year, and he even made Minnesota watchable in 2023 with Josh Dobbs & Nick Mullens. clearly he has a proven track record of having it figured out on offense to make them legitimate. it's for that reason and many others that i think we could finally see the best of Murray on a consistent basis (provided he stays healthy). Minny's O could potentially be very nasty.
but here's the rub: even with all of the aforementioned, he's never won a playoff game.
i think that might change this season. can't wait to see how it all plays out.
@2dueces said:
I’d like to see Justin Jefferson as a Bill. Chances of that happening are about the same as Jacoby Brissett, Geno Smith or Kyler Murray leading their team to a Super Bowl.
Minnesota had their QB, 14 wins and two really bad games and let him go. That move was one of the worst moves in NFL history. Now they’re scrambling with a QB who can’t stay healthy and a QB that hasn’t looked good for 3 years.
JJ to the Bills please!!
Minnesota deserves what they get
I will say the same thing about the Bills once Josh Allen retires without a super bowl and everyone looks back saying "Well he had Stefon Diggs, I can't think of any other WR though"
It took Diggs 3 more years to final mature as a person. The Patriots got the best of his personality although diminished ability. He was a detriment to the locker room and sideline in Buffalo. Trying to force him the ball to keep him happy and then in the biggest game dropped an easy ball costing the bills another playoff game.
Joe, I agree with everything you said
The Bills just remind me of Bradys last year with the Pats when hoodie refused to get him any WR help, I literally cannot name any other capable WR that Allen has had besides Diggs.
Shame on Buffalo and their GM for not helping the guy out
No offense to anyone but I think Kyler Murray is a horrific step. In the wrong direction for Minnesota, he should be better than McCarthy but that's not saying much.
I'd love to see Minnesota get a championship at some point but I just don't see them figuring it out
No offense to anyone but I think Kyler Murray is a horrific step. In the wrong direction for Minnesota, he should be better than McCarthy but that's not saying much.
what makes it so appealing is the $ involved. basically the Arizona Cardinals are paying the Minnesota Vikings to upgrade their QB room. if it doesn't work out this season, they'll cut bait with Murray. if it does, it was a brilliant move. either way, it costs them a grand total of $1.3 mil to find out. the alternative was sticking with McCarthy and wasting another year of Jefferson, Addison & Hockenson, which they most certainly were not going to do again.
No offense to anyone but I think Kyler Murray is a horrific step. In the wrong direction for Minnesota, he should be better than McCarthy but that's not saying much.
what makes it so appealing is the $ involved. basically the Arizona Cardinals are paying the Minnesota Vikings to upgrade their QB room. if it doesn't work out this season, they'll cut bait with Murray. if it does, it was a brilliant move. either way, it costs them a grand total of $1.3 mil to find out. the alternative was sticking with McCarthy and wasting another year of Jefferson, Addison & Hockenson, which they most certainly were not going to do again.
And that right there explains it
I can give credit where credit is due in that regard, I will withdraw my attack against the Vikings think tank
you know me bud, i'm a fan myself, but my fandom always takes a backseat to realism. i've always been enamored with Murray's game dating back to high school, where i watched him play a lot. to this point, he has underachieved in his career. the easy thing to do is to say he sucks. but i think there are other variables in play. having followed him in AZ, i can't even begin to tell you how dysfunctional that organization is. Michael Bidwell received an F- when they graded owners. not an F, an F-. imagine working for a company with an F- owner. would your potential be maxed out? probably not. when Arizona signed Murray to a monstrous extension, they also included a clause that said he had to substitute video games with X number of hours watching game film. think about that. imagine your superior dragging you into a room and announcing that they're going to back up the Brinks truck and unload a mountain of cash in your front yard, but in that same conversation they tell you that you have to stop dicking around at work. who does that?
with that said, it's very difficult for me to discern whether or not Murray has underachieved based on him, the team he once played for, or both. you have to remember, just a few short years ago Arizona started 8-0 and he was on the tip of everyone's tongue when it came to MVP chatter. he's tantalizing, and that's why i'm fascinated to see what happens in Minnesota. he's basically going from a team that should be relegated to the UFL to a legitimate one with pieces already in place -- coaches and players. if he stays healthy, starts and plays poorly throughout the duration of the season, it's very much on him. if he flourishes, it'll once again be a classic case of a change of scenery being the panacea.
@perkdog said:
No offense to anyone but I think Kyler Murray is a horrific step. In the wrong direction for Minnesota, he should be better than McCarthy but that's not saying much.
I'd love to see Minnesota get a championship at some point but I just don't see them figuring it out
The offseason thread here is always the same. Mostly Vikings and Bills talk and then when they make the playoffs nothing. Allen’s time to win a SB has expired. now he’s happily married and satisfied with life. No hunger. Would rather be golfing. At least Mahomes won 3 SB’s before he succumbed to that fate. Murray is a midget, okay little person who isn’t going to lead any team to a SB.
@perkdog said:
No offense to anyone but I think Kyler Murray is a horrific step. In the wrong direction for Minnesota, he should be better than McCarthy but that's not saying much.
I'd love to see Minnesota get a championship at some point but I just don't see them figuring it out
The offseason thread here is always the same. Mostly Vikings and Bills talk and then when they make the playoffs nothing. Allen’s time to win a SB has expired. now he’s happily married and satisfied with life. No hunger. Would rather be golfing. At least Mahomes won 3 SB’s before he succumbed to that fate. Murray is a midget, okay little person who isn’t going to lead any team to a SB.
How close am I going to be with the Chiefs schedule to open the season? The NFL will cater to them until Mahomes returns. The Chiefs are a rating magnet and these game will appear so Fields will be able to keep the Chiefs relevant until the return of Mahomes
Raiders home
Dolphins away
Cardinals home
Jets home
Falcons away
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
@perkdog said:
No offense to anyone but I think Kyler Murray is a horrific step. In the wrong direction for Minnesota, he should be better than McCarthy but that's not saying much.
I'd love to see Minnesota get a championship at some point but I just don't see them figuring it out
The offseason thread here is always the same. Mostly Vikings and Bills talk and then when they make the playoffs nothing. Allen’s time to win a SB has expired. now he’s happily married and satisfied with life. No hunger. Would rather be golfing. At least Mahomes won 3 SB’s before he succumbed to that fate. Murray is a midget, okay little person who isn’t going to lead any team to a SB.
Yeah let’s blame Allen for the 13 second game. BS
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
@perkdog said:
No offense to anyone but I think Kyler Murray is a horrific step. In the wrong direction for Minnesota, he should be better than McCarthy but that's not saying much.
I'd love to see Minnesota get a championship at some point but I just don't see them figuring it out
The offseason thread here is always the same. Mostly Vikings and Bills talk and then when they make the playoffs nothing. Allen’s time to win a SB has expired. now he’s happily married and satisfied with life. No hunger. Would rather be golfing. At least Mahomes won 3 SB’s before he succumbed to that fate. Murray is a midget, okay little person who isn’t going to lead any team to a SB.
How close am I going to be with the Chiefs schedule to open the season? The NFL will cater to them until Mahomes returns. The Chiefs are a rating magnet and these game will appear so Fields will be able to keep the Chiefs relevant until the return of Mahomes
Raiders home
Dolphins away
Cardinals home
Jets home
Falcons away
Weren’t they 6-11 or something like that? Are they supposed to play a first place schedule like they did about 10-12 years in a row when they were a first place team?
@perkdog said:
No offense to anyone but I think Kyler Murray is a horrific step. In the wrong direction for Minnesota, he should be better than McCarthy but that's not saying much.
I'd love to see Minnesota get a championship at some point but I just don't see them figuring it out
The offseason thread here is always the same. Mostly Vikings and Bills talk and then when they make the playoffs nothing. Allen’s time to win a SB has expired. now he’s happily married and satisfied with life. No hunger. Would rather be golfing. At least Mahomes won 3 SB’s before he succumbed to that fate. Murray is a midget, okay little person who isn’t going to lead any team to a SB.
Yeah let’s blame Allen for the 13 second game. BS
One day you’ll wake up and realize he can’t get it done in the big games. Now more than ever since he’s content and dreams of golf all day. At least I admit that about Mahomes but I’m not the cheerleader you are. And he’s had a lot more chances than the 13 second game. I just call it like I see it, it’s nothing personal but the Bills are the same old thing year after year. Just like the Vikings. If either make it to the SB I’ll admit I was wrong and apologize.
you know me bud, i'm a fan myself, but my fandom always takes a backseat to realism. i've always been enamored with Murray's game dating back to high school, where i watched him play a lot. to this point, he has underachieved in his career. the easy thing to do is to say he sucks. but i think there are other variables in play. having followed him in AZ, i can't even begin to tell you how dysfunctional that organization is. Michael Bidwell received an F- when they graded owners. not an F, an F-. imagine working for a company with an F- owner. would your potential be maxed out? probably not. when Arizona signed Murray to a monstrous extension, they also included a clause that said he had to substitute video games with X number of hours watching game film. think about that. imagine your superior dragging you into a room and announcing that they're going to back up the Brinks truck and unload a mountain of cash in your front yard, but in that same conversation they tell you that you have to stop dicking around at work. who does that?
with that said, it's very difficult for me to discern whether or not Murray has underachieved based on him, the team he once played for, or both. you have to remember, just a few short years ago Arizona started 8-0 and he was on the tip of everyone's tongue when it came to MVP chatter. he's tantalizing, and that's why i'm fascinated to see what happens in Minnesota. he's basically going from a team that should be relegated to the UFL to a legitimate one with pieces already in place -- coaches and players. if he stays healthy, starts and plays poorly throughout the duration of the season, it's very much on him. if he flourishes, it'll once again be a classic case of a change of scenery being the panacea.
I hear ya brother, you watching him in high school and following him all the way to the NFL is a pretty cool thing.
I don't hate the guy but I just don't like him and that's me being honest, I definitely understand the Cardinal organization is a dumpster fire for sure and that's understandable to give Murray a break based on that but the fact that I just don't like the guy and only watching him in AZ makes it easy for ME to say "He sucks"
That video game clause is hilarious and a fun fact when tallying all the examples up on why the Cardinals organization is a dumpster fire joke.
Disclaimer: I do like Minnesota and wish Murray well there, Minnesota is an old school team and I'd love to see them get a championship
If Minnesota does well like a solid season and potential wild card berth I'll dial it back on Murray
@perkdog said:
No offense to anyone but I think Kyler Murray is a horrific step. In the wrong direction for Minnesota, he should be better than McCarthy but that's not saying much.
I'd love to see Minnesota get a championship at some point but I just don't see them figuring it out
The offseason thread here is always the same. Mostly Vikings and Bills talk and then when they make the playoffs nothing. Allen’s time to win a SB has expired. now he’s happily married and satisfied with life. No hunger. Would rather be golfing. At least Mahomes won 3 SB’s before he succumbed to that fate. Murray is a midget, okay little person who isn’t going to lead any team to a SB.
Yeah let’s blame Allen for the 13 second game. BS
I definately don't blame that disaster on Allen at all but I hate to say it Joe that I kind of agree with @Darin on the other stuff.
McDermott should have been fired after that 13 second game, but that was how many years ago now?
Like I said earlier the Bills just refuse to build an offense around Allen and he is going to be 30, he has a lot of wear and tear on him
I do think the Bills best chances are behind them at this point unless they can put together a solid team on both sides of the ball in a hurry.
I hope I'm wrong because I do like the Bills fanbase
If Minnesota does well like a solid season and potential wild card berth I'll dial it back on Murray
That's the best I can do brother 🍻
bro your opinion carries as much weight as mine -- if not more, lol -- so you may very well be right. i'll be the first to objectively hammer him if he's deserving of it.
who knows, perhaps McCarthy will shock everyone and win the QB battle. but if he's the same guy who managed to throw 2 touchdowns to Justin Jefferson in 17 games, he most certainly will not.
again, the Vikings cannot afford another season of that. too much talent on that roster.
again, the Vikings cannot afford another season of that. too much talent on that roster.
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Games are won and lost in the "trenches". We will have an almost all new defensive line AND they did next to nothing significant to improve the O line. Insurance policy backup tackle signed from the Bills and a rookie taken about 100th overall.
Darrisaw MUST return to form after 2 years fighting a knee injury and operation, Brandel, a back up moved to center, will have to be better in his new position, and we're an injury or two from disaster, especially if Darrisaw is washed up.
Defensive line is MORE of a question mark. Quality veteran starters Jonathon Allen and Javon Hargrave are gone. and OLB Jonathon Greenard was traded, picked up a nice receiver with some of the cash we saved, One fourth of the defensive starters! First round pick Banks is hurt and we're depending on him to be not only a starter but a big contributor. "Big Citrus" might be a solid run stopper, possibly the best choice for immediate help.
Everyone focuses on the "skill" position players we have on offense, not enough unless the line is good.
Then there's our Quarterbacks! The walking wounded, who may end up being the walking dead if they aren't careful!
The idiot calling the plays is going to come under a LOT of scrutiny this year if things don't work out.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@perkdog said:
No offense to anyone but I think Kyler Murray is a horrific step. In the wrong direction for Minnesota, he should be better than McCarthy but that's not saying much.
I'd love to see Minnesota get a championship at some point but I just don't see them figuring it out
The offseason thread here is always the same. Mostly Vikings and Bills talk and then when they make the playoffs nothing. Allen’s time to win a SB has expired. now he’s happily married and satisfied with life. No hunger. Would rather be golfing. At least Mahomes won 3 SB’s before he succumbed to that fate. Murray is a midget, okay little person who isn’t going to lead any team to a SB.
Yeah let’s blame Allen for the 13 second game. BS
One day you’ll wake up and realize he can’t get it done in the big games. Now more than ever since he’s content and dreams of golf all day. At least I admit that about Mahomes but I’m not the cheerleader you are. And he’s had a lot more chances than the 13 second game. I just call it like I see it, it’s nothing personal but the Bills are the same old thing year after year. Just like the Vikings. If either make it to the SB I’ll admit I was wrong and apologize.
Whatever you say mister nfl experts. Glad I come here and don’t have to pay for your sparkling personality and opinion
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
That is just plain stupid. Vikings played TWO international games last year. At least finally the Cowboys get one (haven't had once since 2014) and Detroit gets one (they haven't had one since 2015).
@VikingDude said:
That is just plain stupid. Vikings played TWO international games last year. At least finally the Cowboys get one (haven't had once since 2014) and Detroit gets one (they haven't had one since 2015).
Don't the Jaguars usually get all the London games?
It seemed like they were in London more than any other team
Fernando Mendoza is probably going to suck and Kirk Cousins will hang around longer than Joe Flacco and sign many more 100 million dollar contracts lol
These schedule release videos and tweets either need to stop or teams need to actually hire funny/creative social media people. Theres only a couple that are actually funny or creative
Opening the season in Australia is brutal. Even from LA thats a 16 hour flight each way to Melboune.
NFL wide receivers are some of the biggest oxygen thieves on planet earth, and they make a mockery of our judicial system with regularity
Rice drives 120 into a wall, creates a chain reaction that almost killed multiple people, walks away from the scene, then gets a 30-day slap on the wrist w/5 years probation
Henry Ruggs gets blasted, drives 150 into a girl and sets her and her dog on fire, kills them, and he's already up for parole in a few months
imagine what your own personal fate would be if you did either of those things.....and try not to laugh uncontrollably while doing so
I guarantee you if a famous person did something similar to one of my family members and got to resume life as if nothing ever happened, believe you me there would be another crime to investigate
@galaxy27 said:
NFL wide receivers are some of the biggest oxygen thieves on planet earth, and they make a mockery of our judicial system with regularity
Rice drives 120 into a wall, creates a chain reaction that almost killed multiple people, walks away from the scene, then gets a 30-day slap on the wrist w/5 years probation
Henry Ruggs gets blasted, drives 150 into a girl and sets her and her dog on fire, kills them, and he's already up for parole in a few months
imagine what your own personal fate would be if you did either of those things.....and try not to laugh uncontrollably while doing so
I guarantee you if a famous person did something similar to one of my family members and got to resume life as if nothing ever happened, believe you me there would be another crime to investigate
@galaxy27 said:
the international schedule is wild this coming season
Seems unfair to the Texans what with the Jags spending 2 weeks in a row in London to acclamate to the time change. Then Texans have less time to adjust, with the Jags having a full 2 weeks in a row. Unless Jags come home in between their games,which would not make much sense.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
I do, I think that kid would have been fine had he played now since the NFL softened it's stance on Marijuana
I think he got suspended for a year for having one drink on an airplane while on the substance abuse program? It was definately something completely petty as well as stupid.
There is no comparison with Gordon to Rice, Rice is a thug where Gordon just wanted to get high.
Josh Gordon was an unbelievable talent. Early in his career he showed enough to set two NFL records that are quite impressive. Once he was suspended the first time things were essentially over for him.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
I remember back when Gordon tried to come back with the Patriots. I think it was 2019? there were a few flashes, but he was pretty much washed by then and i think it all ended with another pot suspension.
It's inflation. In 1985 you only had to be traveling 88.8 MPH, but today, you need 137 MPH to harness the 1.21 gigawatts of energy needed to power the flux and travel back in time to a year when the Cleveland Browns were relevant.
Comments
Jefferson isn't going anywhere!
HUGE mistake not signing Daniel Jones after Darnold left. I don't think we could have afforded to sign, or franchise, Darnold. Vikings had to get rid of three veteran starters on defense just to get under the cap.
I think the front office is trying to defend their decision to use such a high pick but I dont think the coaching staff likes him as a player.
They do have a window right now with their weapons where they can keep saving guys careers and not be able to resign them. Theyre going to either need to get real bad or make some massive trade in the draft. They really are almost in a lose lose where if a QB is good they cant afford to resign them.
Im a little surprised they didnt try and take a chance with Pavia. I know hes viewed as Manzell 2.0 off the field which is part of the reason he went undrafted (he also likely told teams not to use a late pick on him) but he signed with the Ravens in basically no time for 3 years 3 mil with no guaranteed money or signing bonus.
Fire AJ Preller
Our Head Coach is supposed to be some kind of Quarterback guru. He hasn't worked any magic on McCarthy. As I have said in the past, McCarthy looked better at the end of last year than at the beginning, against mostly below average defenses.
It was enough to give me hope. I don't have any idea what the coaches think of him, but the head coach might want to adjust the offense a bit instead of asking a rookie to perform like a veteran behind a leaky line.
I think O'Connell is an idiot. His game plan seems to be a lot of downfield passing and slower developing routes.
Great plan if you have a decent and healthy offensive line. we had neither last year to go with a raw, rookie QB.
We did draft an O-Line guy. Picked about 100th overall. Probably less than a 35% chance he will be a solid starter, but he is supposed to be "NFL ready" as a pass blocker. We'll see.
It's great to have all these great (?) receivers, but if the quarterback is getting obliterated, I don't see much of a point.
I dont really have a strong opinion on O'Connell one way or another but there have been comments and sort of a quiet benching of McCarthy just saying his injury keeps him out.
I do get trying to do more down field stuff as Jefferson and Addison are more down field guys. Murry can move around more and did basically just throw long balls in college at Oklahoma. Was certainly a few years ago but he dose seem like the better fit for what they have.
Northwestern does put some good linemen in the league. Tiernan probably wont be a top tackle but a lot of scouts think he could be a very good guard moving him inside. I dont know if they will do that but they have options with him and his size
Fire AJ Preller
It took Diggs 3 more years to final mature as a person. The Patriots got the best of his personality although diminished ability. He was a detriment to the locker room and sideline in Buffalo. Trying to force him the ball to keep him happy and then in the biggest game dropped an easy ball costing the bills another playoff game.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
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I have been watching the Vikings since the 1960's and even played a little High School football. Too small to play College. I think I have a fairly good grasp of the game. O'Connell has made quite a few absolutely bone headed decisions in my opinion that have had me irritated. We're stuck with him for now, so not much I can say. His refusal to install some shorter routes when the O-Line is crippled with injury (or are just bad at pass blocking) makes me crazy.
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Murray certainly has some athletic ability, but he also has injury problems of late and he's pretty short. If his running/scrambling ability is diminished, I don't think he's a pocket passer, but you never know.
As I mentioned, if Murray wins the starting job and has a good or great season, where does that leave the Vikings?
I'm no expert on the cap, but we unloaded a bunch of salary this year while paying almost nothing for the highest paid position in football. How do we afford him? The Vikings must have the most injury prone group of QB's in the league with Murray, McCarthy and Wentz, and for the hundredth time, not a good pass blocking O-Line.
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I went back, and from 2004-2023, in looking at all the Vikings draft picks, they have chosen ONE very good offensive lineman in that entire time, Brian O'Neil. That #4 overall on Matt Kalil still stings! Can't say on Darrisaw, he's good, but he needs to get healthy, or he's a bust.
From 2004-2023 the Vikings have had 22 1st round picks and 7 have been good to great choices. they had ONE year, 2015 where 3 players were good choices and one of them, Diggs, was traded because he was insane. I recently heard a Vikings blogger say "If all 6 Vikings draft picks are good, we'll be a very good team". My answer is "Are you delusional?" That has never happened here. Probably anywhere else either.
I have heard this new guy from Northwestern can really pass block, and have also heard speculation that he might be moved to guard. He has really short arms though. LOL
It does appear that the Vikings push downfield more - McCarthy's average target depth is 9.5 yards which is close to the league leaders (around 10-11). He also held the ball for 3.01 seconds on average which is considerable longer than the league average. So on one hand the Vikings want him to make more difficult throws downfield, but only on the outside, because they don't let McCarthy throw over the middle of the field - and on the other... he's not very good at throwing the football - relative to other QBs. So yeah they could dink and dunk like with Maye at 5 YPA and he would probably be more successful. There is a bit of a contradiction with PFR's data regarding "Intended air yards" - I guess McCarthy misses a lot of check-downs.
The Vikings line actually ranks pretty good statistically - Top 10. The general assessment I see for McCarthy in this data is that the line was average to above-average, but McCarthy holds the ball way too long and his progression is poor. This tracks with what I have heard about him - front office and coaching staff doesn't have any faith in him.
I'm not a football expert, but that's OK because this is a math problem.
i find it interesting that Joe B seems to be so soured on O'Connell when many talking heads consider him to be a QB whisperer. i conducted a little digging myself. the Vikes went 13-4 with Cousins, 14-3 with Darnold, 9-8 with J.J. McCarthy in what was by far KOC's most miserable year, and he even made Minnesota watchable in 2023 with Josh Dobbs & Nick Mullens. clearly he has a proven track record of having it figured out on offense to make them legitimate. it's for that reason and many others that i think we could finally see the best of Murray on a consistent basis (provided he stays healthy). Minny's O could potentially be very nasty.
but here's the rub: even with all of the aforementioned, he's never won a playoff game.
i think that might change this season. can't wait to see how it all plays out.
Joe, I agree with everything you said
The Bills just remind me of Bradys last year with the Pats when hoodie refused to get him any WR help, I literally cannot name any other capable WR that Allen has had besides Diggs.
Shame on Buffalo and their GM for not helping the guy out
No offense to anyone but I think Kyler Murray is a horrific step. In the wrong direction for Minnesota, he should be better than McCarthy but that's not saying much.
I'd love to see Minnesota get a championship at some point but I just don't see them figuring it out
what makes it so appealing is the $ involved. basically the Arizona Cardinals are paying the Minnesota Vikings to upgrade their QB room. if it doesn't work out this season, they'll cut bait with Murray. if it does, it was a brilliant move. either way, it costs them a grand total of $1.3 mil to find out. the alternative was sticking with McCarthy and wasting another year of Jefferson, Addison & Hockenson, which they most certainly were not going to do again.
And that right there explains it
I can give credit where credit is due in that regard, I will withdraw my attack against the Vikings think tank
@perkdog
you know me bud, i'm a fan myself, but my fandom always takes a backseat to realism. i've always been enamored with Murray's game dating back to high school, where i watched him play a lot. to this point, he has underachieved in his career. the easy thing to do is to say he sucks. but i think there are other variables in play. having followed him in AZ, i can't even begin to tell you how dysfunctional that organization is. Michael Bidwell received an F- when they graded owners. not an F, an F-. imagine working for a company with an F- owner. would your potential be maxed out? probably not. when Arizona signed Murray to a monstrous extension, they also included a clause that said he had to substitute video games with X number of hours watching game film. think about that. imagine your superior dragging you into a room and announcing that they're going to back up the Brinks truck and unload a mountain of cash in your front yard, but in that same conversation they tell you that you have to stop dicking around at work. who does that?
with that said, it's very difficult for me to discern whether or not Murray has underachieved based on him, the team he once played for, or both. you have to remember, just a few short years ago Arizona started 8-0 and he was on the tip of everyone's tongue when it came to MVP chatter. he's tantalizing, and that's why i'm fascinated to see what happens in Minnesota. he's basically going from a team that should be relegated to the UFL to a legitimate one with pieces already in place -- coaches and players. if he stays healthy, starts and plays poorly throughout the duration of the season, it's very much on him. if he flourishes, it'll once again be a classic case of a change of scenery being the panacea.
The offseason thread here is always the same. Mostly Vikings and Bills talk and then when they make the playoffs nothing. Allen’s time to win a SB has expired. now he’s happily married and satisfied with life. No hunger. Would rather be golfing. At least Mahomes won 3 SB’s before he succumbed to that fate. Murray is a midget, okay little person who isn’t going to lead any team to a SB.
The NFL Network’s Ian Rapoport is reporting former Cleveland Browns Pro Bowl tight end David Njoku is signing with the LA Chargers.
It’s a one-year deal worth up to $8 million.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
How close am I going to be with the Chiefs schedule to open the season? The NFL will cater to them until Mahomes returns. The Chiefs are a rating magnet and these game will appear so Fields will be able to keep the Chiefs relevant until the return of Mahomes
Raiders home
Dolphins away
Cardinals home
Jets home
Falcons away
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Yeah let’s blame Allen for the 13 second game. BS
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Weren’t they 6-11 or something like that? Are they supposed to play a first place schedule like they did about 10-12 years in a row when they were a first place team?
One day you’ll wake up and realize he can’t get it done in the big games. Now more than ever since he’s content and dreams of golf all day. At least I admit that about Mahomes but I’m not the cheerleader you are. And he’s had a lot more chances than the 13 second game. I just call it like I see it, it’s nothing personal but the Bills are the same old thing year after year. Just like the Vikings. If either make it to the SB I’ll admit I was wrong and apologize.
I hear ya brother, you watching him in high school and following him all the way to the NFL is a pretty cool thing.
I don't hate the guy but I just don't like him and that's me being honest, I definitely understand the Cardinal organization is a dumpster fire for sure and that's understandable to give Murray a break based on that but the fact that I just don't like the guy and only watching him in AZ makes it easy for ME to say "He sucks"
That video game clause is hilarious and a fun fact when tallying all the examples up on why the Cardinals organization is a dumpster fire joke.
Disclaimer: I do like Minnesota and wish Murray well there, Minnesota is an old school team and I'd love to see them get a championship
If Minnesota does well like a solid season and potential wild card berth I'll dial it back on Murray
That's the best I can do brother 🍻
I definately don't blame that disaster on Allen at all but I hate to say it Joe that I kind of agree with @Darin on the other stuff.
McDermott should have been fired after that 13 second game, but that was how many years ago now?
Like I said earlier the Bills just refuse to build an offense around Allen and he is going to be 30, he has a lot of wear and tear on him
I do think the Bills best chances are behind them at this point unless they can put together a solid team on both sides of the ball in a hurry.
I hope I'm wrong because I do like the Bills fanbase
bro your opinion carries as much weight as mine -- if not more, lol -- so you may very well be right. i'll be the first to objectively hammer him if he's deserving of it.
who knows, perhaps McCarthy will shock everyone and win the QB battle. but if he's the same guy who managed to throw 2 touchdowns to Justin Jefferson in 17 games, he most certainly will not.
again, the Vikings cannot afford another season of that. too much talent on that roster.
if McCarthy does win the QB comp. I have a feeling Joe's going to order the Chateau Briand...
Biggest Rib Eye on EARTH!
How can I lose? He'll either win it outright or Murray will get injured!
To HELL with the offensive line!!!!!!
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Games are won and lost in the "trenches". We will have an almost all new defensive line AND they did next to nothing significant to improve the O line. Insurance policy backup tackle signed from the Bills and a rookie taken about 100th overall.
Darrisaw MUST return to form after 2 years fighting a knee injury and operation, Brandel, a back up moved to center, will have to be better in his new position, and we're an injury or two from disaster, especially if Darrisaw is washed up.
Defensive line is MORE of a question mark. Quality veteran starters Jonathon Allen and Javon Hargrave are gone. and OLB Jonathon Greenard was traded, picked up a nice receiver with some of the cash we saved, One fourth of the defensive starters! First round pick Banks is hurt and we're depending on him to be not only a starter but a big contributor. "Big Citrus" might be a solid run stopper, possibly the best choice for immediate help.
Everyone focuses on the "skill" position players we have on offense, not enough unless the line is good.
Then there's our Quarterbacks! The walking wounded, who may end up being the walking dead if they aren't careful!
The idiot calling the plays is going to come under a LOT of scrutiny this year if things don't work out.
Whatever you say mister nfl experts. Glad I come here and don’t have to pay for your sparkling personality and opinion
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
the international schedule is wild this coming season
That is just plain stupid. Vikings played TWO international games last year. At least finally the Cowboys get one (haven't had once since 2014) and Detroit gets one (they haven't had one since 2015).
Don't the Jaguars usually get all the London games?
It seemed like they were in London more than any other team
looks like a super bowl rematch to kick off the 2026 season....
And the Pats will get smoked again
patriots will start out the year at 0-1
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Fernando Mendoza is probably going to suck and Kirk Cousins will hang around longer than Joe Flacco and sign many more 100 million dollar contracts lol
These schedule release videos and tweets either need to stop or teams need to actually hire funny/creative social media people. Theres only a couple that are actually funny or creative
Opening the season in Australia is brutal. Even from LA thats a 16 hour flight each way to Melboune.
Fire AJ Preller
Rice in jail for 30 days. Failed a drug test on parole.
Fire AJ Preller
That kid is just failing miserably at destroying his career, I'm sure if he keeps trying he will succeed at some point!
before anyone knows it, Rice will be out of the league and his existence will quickly be forgotten
Hes lucky that KC has neglected their offense so much they basically have to stick with him. Still has a few years of probation left too
Fire AJ Preller
NFL wide receivers are some of the biggest oxygen thieves on planet earth, and they make a mockery of our judicial system with regularity
Rice drives 120 into a wall, creates a chain reaction that almost killed multiple people, walks away from the scene, then gets a 30-day slap on the wrist w/5 years probation
Henry Ruggs gets blasted, drives 150 into a girl and sets her and her dog on fire, kills them, and he's already up for parole in a few months
imagine what your own personal fate would be if you did either of those things.....and try not to laugh uncontrollably while doing so
I guarantee you if a famous person did something similar to one of my family members and got to resume life as if nothing ever happened, believe you me there would be another crime to investigate
FACTS
Rice is an absolute loser. I would not want him on my team. not one little bit. guy needs to be cut.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Does anyone remember Josh Gordon??
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
Seems unfair to the Texans what with the Jags spending 2 weeks in a row in London to acclamate to the time change. Then Texans have less time to adjust, with the Jags having a full 2 weeks in a row. Unless Jags come home in between their games,which would not make much sense.
I do, I think that kid would have been fine had he played now since the NFL softened it's stance on Marijuana
I think he got suspended for a year for having one drink on an airplane while on the substance abuse program? It was definately something completely petty as well as stupid.
There is no comparison with Gordon to Rice, Rice is a thug where Gordon just wanted to get high.
I always felt bad for him
Josh Gordon was an unbelievable talent. Early in his career he showed enough to set two NFL records that are quite impressive. Once he was suspended the first time things were essentially over for him.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
I remember back when Gordon tried to come back with the Patriots. I think it was 2019? there were a few flashes, but he was pretty much washed by then and i think it all ended with another pot suspension.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Eagles linebacker Nolan Smith Jr. was arrested for speeding and reckless driving, multiple accounts pegged his alleged speed at 137 miles per hour.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
It's inflation. In 1985 you only had to be traveling 88.8 MPH, but today, you need 137 MPH to harness the 1.21 gigawatts of energy needed to power the flux and travel back in time to a year when the Cleveland Browns were relevant.
Patriots top receiver for Brady for a short time .