Seller doesn't believe this 1821 quarter is a fake
Bustquarterhound
Posts: 167 ✭✭✭
https://www.ebay.com/itm/127840789983?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=tvhf3-kct9g&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=_O4R-KS3QL6&stype=1&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=MORE maybe if more members inform him that it is a fake we could save a collector from being screwed and chasing them away from our great hobby. Thanks Dave
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How about some photos so people might benefit from the thread long after the ebay auction has disappeared.
Thanks JBK
Why would he hear me when nine folks are yelling at him to take their money?
Exactly, Creg. Happens every day.
Yes, there’s a high probability that he won’t hear you. However, believe it or not, there are many good sellers out there - good enough to care more about doing the right thing, than merely taking the money from someone who doesn’t know better.
Polite message sent to seller.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Unlikely to get seller agreement that it's fake even after showing evidence of WHY it's fake. Denial is a river that runs deep.
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
There are many good people with offers on eBay, and you doesn’t know until you write them. I’m fortunate buying from the good; I shy from contacting sellers with dubious offers any more, though.
Thanks, Mark, for giving the seller a chance.
@bustquarterhound, I heard back from the seller, whom I’d messaged about the listing. I asked if he was OK with my posting the contents here and he said yes. It sounds as if he didn’t understand your explanation regarding how the coin had to be a counterfeit. I told him I’d ask the forum for any additional information that might help explain it to him. I welcome whatever details you’re willing to provide. Please see his messages below.
Reply to my first message to him:
“Thank you for that, I am not surprised because somebody was trying to tell me it was, and they were extremely rude about it. I asked them not to message me and probably upset them. I am ALL for learning and in no way want to sell anything that’s fake. But I imagine he is probably the one running around the forums. I do appreciate you letting me know. Perhaps if you have any valuable information as to why people think it’s counterfeit that would be helpful.”
His follow-up reply:
“Absolutely, I don’t mind. I in no way claim to be an expert. I’m a novice collector trying to clear out some room. Any information is greatly appreciated. The user basically was talking to me about a dye that he claimed proved it couldn’t have been made with the right guy, but when I looked into it, I found that that guy was used past my coin date so to me that did not prove anything. I thought I was having a constructive conversation with the guy and then he came back at me with. “It’s still a fake coin. Don’t be a loser.” I took offense to that because I had already explained to him that I’m not trying to rip anybody off.”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Is it a known vintage counterfeit ?
I too have corresponded with the seller. He seems genuinely interested in learning what makes this a counterfeit.
I suggested weighing and check the planchet for the lack of silver.
I also told him it was being discussed here should he wish to seek additional information.
Thank you, @braddick (Pat). I agree and told him I’d update him is update him.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
No.
This is a common Chinese knock-off.
Here are a few I've collected using the same manufacturing/minting process:
Like many Chinese counterfeits, the dies are started with a fake dateless hub and then a variety of dates crudely engraved into each different die to give them a variety of dated counterfeits to sell. Here is a picture of a genuine 1821 Quarter date.
I tried to explain to him that they are made with cast dies using a real 1818 B-10 quarter. The 3 pinched dentils under the first 1 in the date are known only on 3 varieties of 1818. The B-8 B-9 and B-10. Glad he decided to pull the coin and I thanked him.
There are a few reasons the coin is bad, but the date is the easiest tell, particularly the “2” in the date. No real obverse die for 1821 has a date that looks remotely like that.
If this was a real 1821 with the eagles middle talon going through the arrowshaft would make it a B-6 a $50k coin.
i'm in jail. there's a reason. i won't comment further on that. there is a nonexistent ebay jail that a couple of you would be in with your initial initial interactions.
if the seller is reading here are images from pcgs' coin facts
it is easy to tell simply by looking at how crude the design elements and lettering are
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1821-25c/images/5331
Hey Capt is that 1821 a B-1 or B-2? Nice coin!!!
I messaged the seller with relevant information on may 2, they said they were going to do more research. I didn’t think the listing would still be live but I should’ve known that response meant they still didn’t believe me.
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled
I don't know. I just googled 1821 Quarter Dollar images and grabbed the first nice looking one that popped up.