How to deal with orphans?
Cozdred
Posts: 6 ✭
I recently joined the PCGS Set Registry, and loaded much of my inventory. When I used the "Start A Set" button, there were 3 coins for which no current set exists. So I hit the "Set Request" button for coin #1 and was taken to a screen to ask for something appropriate. But when I got to the end where you enter the coin ID#, it said that I must have 5 coins to request a set!! Um, but I only have one. So does this mean my stray orphans are forever locked out of the Registry?
I also participate in the NGC Registry, and they do not have nonsense like this. If you just have one coin, they will quickly find a home for it. They also reply within a couple of days, not months ...
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I have a copple " orphan " coins myself but I never tried to start a Registry set with them as I believe in eventually want my sets at 100% completion and my particular orphans are not in my area of interest. So no plans to start let alone complete a set.
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You obviously are in a different class from me. If I only started sets that I expect to complete, then I would never start any sets at all. As far as #1 top set goes, I have well over a dozen #1 sets in the NGC Registry with less than 5 coins each. I also have a PCGS #1 set with only ONE coin.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/composite/2691
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It's simply a matter of the company being willing to create an appropriate set for a given coin. NGC puts higher value on their collectors, whereas PCGS seems to put higher value on their employees. It's a completely different philosophy that you have to experience to appreciate.
Looks like the link didn't work. trying a different one ...
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/spanish-decimal-coinage/spanish-decimal-real-system/spain-10-reales-circulation-strikes-1851-1864/publishedset/413764
I also participate in the NGC Registry and " My Collect " Been a collector for 60+ years. PCGS didn't used to be that way. Now with Mr. Morgan leading the PCGS Registry, we are seeing changes for the good. As far as # 1 sets, I do have # 1 sets in both PCGS and My Collect. The majority are 100% complete.
A lot of this will boil down to the mood swings of the Registry staff over the years. I don't know exactly what kind of labor actually goes into creating a new set, but I do expect it's a lot more than I'd typically assume. Designing a complex set just for someone who has one single coin can easily be seen as a waste of resources. Of course, we've seen many exceptions to this, over the years, and I have to assume many of those are due to someone on the staff who has a personal interest in those specific sets (ie, a staff member who says "Yeah, that series is really cool, let's do it!") -- In theory, overall population should factor in heavily to the decision to add a set, but over the past several months, many of the sets show population counts of zero or maybe 1 (ie, PCGS has never even graded the coins that would allow anybody to actually complete a set beyond say 5%). I have no good explanation for how or why those got put in, beyond someone on the staff personally liking that particular series. A number of years ago, I submitted a VERY obscure series of Australia Kookaburra Privy coins for grading. By the time the physical slabs were back in my hands, someone on the Registry Staff created a set JUST for them
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/composite/2740
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/composite/2073
I thought that was really cool, and was really impressed that someone in the set seemed to be a fan. Both sets have had me as a #1 set for 6 years now, (which was pretty easy, since six years later, I'm the only one in there) -- I did at least have 100% completion from the start - that may have helped their decision, but many of the coins are total pop 1 or 2. There's not much likelihood of anyone else making a competing set.
Since then, I'd submitted several set requests that I've had 100% (or at least near) completion on, sets with total pops in double or triple digits, all denied, only to see multiple sets with many pop-zero slots showing up on the monthly(ish) updates (I suspect it's one of "those" sets that the original poster here was referencing, giving him top spot with a single coin.)
The five coin minimum is a requirement that does not seem out of line, though - if they're going to program up a new set for someone, there should be some expectation of commitment and seriousness from the submitter. If it's a coin series you really like, and the series is big enough to allow an actual competition-worthy set, then it should be worthwhile to find 4 more coins and then resubmit your request with dignity. However, if you're expecting every coin you own to conveniently land in a set somewhere, you're probably setting your expectations a little high. (It's possible I'm misinterpreting the direction of the original post in that regard)
(I have promised Charles that I'd sit on the sidelines for a couple more months to allow him/them to get caught up a bit, before resubmitting my set requests - one's over 200 coins deep, final-boss-level stuff there
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could you start a show case named my orphans?
I just based my comments on my experience with the NGC Registry team. Their goal is to make sure that every coin they've slabbed has a competitive category. If you have an extremely rare variety, like I collect, you send in a petition and the next day they've entered it under the generic date for that item. And if no appropriate category exists, they create one in a reasonable amount of time. In the past 5 years I've requested at least a dozen new sets to be created, just based on a single certification number, and all but one set request was honored. The only limitation I'm aware of is that they will NOT create a set or add a new slot to an existing set for any category in which they've certified fewer than 3 coins.
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To show how ridiculous this 5 coin requirement is, consider the case of the currently authorized set:
Europe Spain Spain Real, Circulation Strikes (1812-1813)
This set only has TWO required items for completion! So are you expected to acquire 3 duplicates in order to request a similar set? Duh.
And the 2nd most popular Spanish category of all:
Spain Gold Escudo Denomination Type Set, Circulation Strikes (1607-1833)
Requires only five coins for completion. So if you wanted to request an equivalent set, say for a specific monarch or mint, you would have to own the complete set of five coins already!
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Every time I try to request a new set with PCGS, I have to find a top category that ALREADY exists! This is complete nonsense. With NGC, you simply send in the cert number of the coin, and they determine an appropriate set and create it. For example, I have an extremely rare overdate of a 2 Maravedis copper of Carlos III of Spain which I would like to display (PCGS #56985355). It's the only case I'm aware of where the mint had to backdate an obverse die when the monarch died close to the end of the calendar year. According to PCGS census, there are at least 5 separate dates of 2 Maravedis coins slabbed, however I only own this particular one. Anyways, when I try to request the set, the first line does not allow for anything with Maravedis in the title. All because when the team originally created Spanish sets they didn't bother to consider minor denominations. If you compare the number of Spanish coin categories available at PCGS and NGC, there are probably 10 times more at NGC. I suppose this is why the majority of world coin collectors seem to go there.
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Since I focus on only the highest quality rarest varieties, I have no use for chasing commons just to be able to request a set for display. Buti if you're of the opinion that you're not a serious collector unless you have at least 5 coins in each category, then I suppose PCGS is definitely the best place for you.
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Seems like if a collector has some very rare and interesting coins in PCGS holders that are orphans, like 5 of mine currently, the best strategy for displaying them is to send them in to NGC for crossover! Seriously ... Guess that's what I'll have to do.
Just for fun, I'll give the cert #'s of a couple of other interesting orphans:
58724086 & 43881467
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If you enter them into the Verify slot, you can see nice images of both coins. And if you hit "View on CoinFacts" you will notice that both coins are unique. In fact, both are the only TPG certified examples ( PCGS: 1, NGC: 0 ).
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Personally, I think other collectors of Spanish coins would enjoy seeing these specimens. Unfortunately, PCGS Registry team disagrees. :-(
Usually, you would put them in a miserable orphanage under the tyrannical grip of Miss Hannigan, who routinely mistreats them. Despite their bleak surroundings, the fiercely resilient orphans (who randomly break into song) frequently sneak out of the orphanage clutching broken lockets, determined to locate their parents. Sometimes they get selected to spend a week at the mansion of a wanted, bald arms dealer, who get charmed by their optimism and adopts them, but more often, they just die of dysentery.
There are and have been plenty of valid complaints but some of this is user error.
Here are two sets that would match your 1/2 Escudo. You just need to Start one of the sets and then click the "Report a Cert That Should Match This Composite" button.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/spain/spanish-1-2-escudo/673
chopmarkedtradedollars.com