Morgan for grading opinions
scotty1419
Posts: 1,106 ✭✭✭
Nothing special, an 84s in lower grade. This was shared on another forum - not even mine. I'm curious to get feedback to test my own grading opinions.
For me, looks like XF detail with either some cleaning or environmental issues going on and for TPG purposes, likely wouldn't grade.
What do you all think?
1
Comments
Absolutely impossible to ascertain anything based on those pics.
It looks counterfeit to me.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Im going with a pass here (the cloudiness stops it)
It looks like a counterfeit struck on a base metal to me.
Looks like something out of somebody’s raw coin junk box. Buy TPG coins only. I buy PCGs or CACG.
Yes, it was out of a LCS cull bin - again not mine.
Appreciate the comments! Always learning.
Maybe when starting off, but I don’t agree with the strategy of never buying raw coins. I have made plenty of scores that way and flipped them once slabbed and stickered.
Some people are buying for silver, not for grade. "Buy TPG only" is silly in such cases.
Alibaba? RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Retiring at 55, what day is today?
The reason you don’t agree with that strategy is because you have common sense.
And even considering the source, I was surprised to see such a comment, since he’s (supposedly) a dealer.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Agreed, as long as the “silver” is actually silver.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
wow... I'd like to see a weight on it just to make sure it's silver. Counterfeit wasn't my first thought, but the surfaces do have an odd look
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This is my coin , which was picked up at a local coin shop out of a bin of about a hundred or two other hundred morgans all priced at fifty dollars. Approximately seventy percent of the obverse is black and by sulfur oxide. The reverse is hazy. In hand the silver oxide blackening obscured the detail that the photo brought out. It pings , but I don't have any other tools to test it otherwise. I'm relatively new to collecting.
Welcome to the forum.
You might want to check with a local coin shop or jeweler who has a scale that can provide an accurate measurement of the coin’s weight. That wouldn’t guarantee authenticity but it would go a long way.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
That is a counterfeit
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Proud follower of Christ! I love the USA! Land of the Bright and Beautiful! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Cast fake.
I think so, too, but at least getting it checked out should provide peace of mind.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
too
Proud follower of Christ! I love the USA! Land of the Bright and Beautiful! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Thank you - I have corrected that embarrassing error.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The photo does not match the description given by the owner who has joined and chimed in. I think that the photo is throwing everyone off. 84-S is a better date and seems unlikely, though not impossible, that a dealer would sell a legit coin for melt.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
It's a better date in high grade, not much of a premium in low grade.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Here are> @coinbuf said:
Same coin using a better camera under a bench light shining directly down. As far as the story , I can only repeat it. I bought it for $50 and it pulled it from a bin of about a hundred or so other morgans priced the same. The above photos on glamor shots, this is closer to what the looks like.... The incandescent bulb makes it appear more yellow
Based on closer pics, I think it looks real, just harshly cleaned.
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
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Yeah, although I never thought it was fake the pics now show enough detail ...you make out the M at the base of the neck.
This past Feb GC sold an ANACS VF30 details (polished) for $104 including the juice. And while that is just one lone example, there are many others that support a premium for this date/mm even in details grades and over multiple years. Point being that this coin could still bring a premium over melt (roughly equal to the stated buy price of $50) even in this condition. I'm not saying it would, just that it could. Why the dealer was willing to sell for a melt price only he knows.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
It could. But all Morgans have a small premium over melt. If you look at Greysheet, the 84S has very little premium. Most dealers i know would not pay a premium for that coin nor would they separate it from their other bulk dollars.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Wow, wouldn't have even said that's the same coin.
The gray sheet does not dictate what coins sell for in every transaction, and I never said a dealer would pay a premium, as usual you are adding words that were not there. What a dealer buys a coin for is not the same as what the market will pay for that same coin in an auction or retail transaction. You are, as you often like to do, making an apples to oranges comparison. I cited referenced auction results not dealer wholesale prices.
Obviously, some dealers would not take the time to submit a coin like this and indeed may not see it worth the time/effort to separate this out. But that is not relevant to the point that even in lower grades there can be a modest premium for this date/mm.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Actually, if you go back and read YOUR original claim, it was that a dealer was NOT likely to have a legitimate 84S in their bulk bin. So, contrary to your accusations, my comment has stayed razor- focused on that point. I do not know any dealer who would pay a premium for a mid grade details 84S nor bother to separate one from their bulk coins. I've seen dozens of such coins in bulk boxes over the years and left them there.
In case you've forgotten your original post:
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Right not likely but not impossible, DUH!!! The only thing you are razor focused on is being a PIA, and I know I'm not alone in that opinion! It may come as a shock to you but I'm willing to bet that there are dealers that do not operate the way you do, so what you say or do is not the rule for every dealer.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Here are pics taken with a better camera under a bench lamp> @scotty1419 said:
Yeah, I'm thinking about sticking it in acetone for a few hours. I doubt anything happens since I think the darkening is likely bonded to the metal..but why not give it a try. Either way , i'm going to keep the coin just for the story
i also thought it was counterfeit at first. it's real, but quite homely. perhaps the look soured his hopes of selling it for a decent markup
All I said, that started this, was that 84-S is not a key date in low grade. That's true and I'm not sure why you feel the need to make it personal. My responses were all in the context of the discussion about the coin in question. It is unfortunate that you must constantly make it personal.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I don't understand that reasoning since, in my opinion, and based on wear alone, i think the coin grades as a 40. I understand the eye appeal isn't there ... at all... but he certainly could have gotten more than fifty bucks for it. I think it was a mistake.
IMO, they likely saw a coin so harshly cleaned/damaged ugly and maybe glazed over the specific date/mint.
Definitely a premium but I don't think it's nearly what others on R were suggesting.
I've got an 84s in F/VF I've been trying to sell for like $60-65 with no takers. The reality of the silver increases means these coins in the crevice between silver spot and actual numismatic value are getting ignored more often or lumped in with silver.
In defense of those on reddit who were overgrading the coin and those here who thought it was possibly counterfeit.... I think that was the result of the bad pic. I'm calling the coin an ugly grade 40. I know they exist i've seen them lol. That said , i'm sure he could've sold it for more than fifty. There are a lot of people who need that filler and can't afford a "decent" 84S.
"That said , i'm sure he could've sold it for more than fifty. There are a lot of people who need that filler and can't afford a "decent" 84S."
How long might he have to wait for one of those filler buyers to walk in the door looking for the coin? $50 today might be preferrable to $100 in 8-10 months.
Solid VFs have been selling on eBay in the high 60s. An ugly XF...
I've sold maybe a dozen in the last decade. Never got more than a $10 premium on anything under XF. It's overrated as a "key date" just because the UNC population is so low.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I don't know Morgan pricing and just pulled the "$100" figure out of thin air as a response to "he could've sold it for more than fifty". When it comes to pricing on ugly/details coins, I've typically figured they'll go for no more than the next lower grade and usually, less.
The initial set of images that was posted caused me to think the coin looked counterfeit. This set makes me think otherwise.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If anyone is interested here's the coin after an hour in acetone. Also sent these two pics to my LCS (the other one I go to) and ask him if he would get a graded if it were his. He's been in the business forty plus years. No response yet maybe a busy day. See what he says on the grade. Definitely environmental.
I dont think it would grade or would be worth trying to do so.