1983 Lincoln Cent – Defective Bronze Planchet. NGC VS PCGS.
Comments
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@RedRocket said:
@ambro51 said:
Your photo of a goldfish reminds me of winning one once at a carnival as a kid. Sadly, it didn't live long enough to make it home.
A tough lesson for an eight year old.Goldfish or barracuda?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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@jmlanzaf said:
@mr1931S said:
Even with copper plating a zincoln is going to make a dull thud when dropped onto a hard surface such as a glass tabletop. It's a fact. One could even do this test scientifically using an oscilloscope to see the difference in the audio waveform made, bronze (3.1g) vs. zinc core (2.5g).You don't need an oscilloscope.
You also don't need a telescope to see the moon.
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(Alt?)
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@RedRocket said:
@ambro51 said:
(Alt?)In the interest of full transparency and disclosure:
I used to be PopCoin.And PopCoin used to be Red Rocket. So, that makes you an alt of Red Rocket....🤔
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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@jmlanzaf said:
@CoinOM said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@CoinOM said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@CoinOM said:
I found a short clip in my video folder where I filmed the thickness of this coin in comparison with a cent from the same year—but one with the standard composition of copper-plated zinc:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kNF_VWn0KbII assume the brighter one is the correct composition? If so, that video proves it's not a bronze planchet.
No, the other one is the coin we are talking about here.
The top one?
It would be really useful to know which is which. Lol.
The darkest one
If the darkest one is the coin of interest, like I thought, it is NOT BRONZE or it would have to be thinner than the zinc one.
Bumping for the OP. If the 2.87 g coin is the thicker one, it is not bronze and must be zinc.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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Where is Bongo Bongo?
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@ambro51 said:
Where is Bongo Bongo?Still driving down the rain soaked highways on bald retread tires?
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@jmlanzaf said:
@RedRocket said:
@ambro51 said:
(Alt?)In the interest of full transparency and disclosure:
I used to be PopCoin.And PopCoin used to be Red Rocket. So, that makes you an alt of Red Rocket....🤔
Another secret exposed.
It's getting to where I can't PM you anything . . .
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There was mention here of using apps to identify coins, and here is what I can tell you: I tried identifying this coin with CoinSnap, but—just as I expected—the program was unable to determine the uniqueness of a piece of this caliber.
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@CoinOM said:
There was mention here of using apps to identify coins, and here is what I can tell you: I tried identifying this coin with CoinSnap, but—just as I expected—the program was unable to determine the uniqueness of a piece of this caliber.As I understand it, CoinSnap uses photos for identification purposes.
In this case, how would an app that relies on visual comparisons detect a difference in metal composition?
Edited to Add: "In this case,".
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@MetroD said:
@CoinOM said:
There was mention here of using apps to identify coins, and here is what I can tell you: I tried identifying this coin with CoinSnap, but—just as I expected—the program was unable to determine the uniqueness of a piece of this caliber.As I understand it, CoinSnap uses photos for identification purposes.
In this case, how would an app that relies on visual comparisons detect a difference in metal composition?
Edited to Add: "In this case,".
Yes, I understand—but on the reverse, an unusual texture was visible that, at the very least, affected details such as the FG.
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Good Luck.
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@jmlanzaf said:
@mr1931S said:
Even with copper plating a zincoln is going to make a dull thud when dropped onto a hard surface such as a glass tabletop. It's a fact. One could even do this test scientifically using an oscilloscope to see the difference in the audio waveform made, bronze (3.1g) vs. zinc core (2.5g).You don't need an oscilloscope.
YOU don't need an oscilloscope. Don't be so anti-science. It's not a good look for you.
"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.
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@CoinOM said:
There was mention here of using apps to identify coins, and here is what I can tell you: I tried identifying this coin with CoinSnap, but—just as I expected—the program was unable to determine the uniqueness of a piece of this caliber.And how would any imaging app weigh a coin and do a metallurgical assay? This is arguably the most ridiculous observation ever made.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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@mr1931S said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@mr1931S said:
Even with copper plating a zincoln is going to make a dull thud when dropped onto a hard surface such as a glass tabletop. It's a fact. One could even do this test scientifically using an oscilloscope to see the difference in the audio waveform made, bronze (3.1g) vs. zinc core (2.5g).You don't need an oscilloscope.
YOU don't need an oscilloscope. Don't be so anti-science. It's not a good look for you.
Lmao. I'm pro-science which is why I have to keep correcting you. My cell phone can do what you want an oscilloscope to do.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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@CoinOM said:
@MetroD said:
@CoinOM said:
There was mention here of using apps to identify coins, and here is what I can tell you: I tried identifying this coin with CoinSnap, but—just as I expected—the program was unable to determine the uniqueness of a piece of this caliber.As I understand it, CoinSnap uses photos for identification purposes.
In this case, how would an app that relies on visual comparisons detect a difference in metal composition?
Edited to Add: "In this case,".
Yes, I understand—but on the reverse, an unusual texture was visible that, at the very least, affected details such as the FG.
You can get an "unusual texture" from everything from grease to electroplating to acid stripping to ZINC rot.
You keep ignoring my point about the thickness. Why is that? 🤔All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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@jmlanzaf said:
@CoinOM said:
There was mention here of using apps to identify coins, and here is what I can tell you: I tried identifying this coin with CoinSnap, but—just as I expected—the program was unable to determine the uniqueness of a piece of this caliber.And how would any imaging app weigh a coin and do a metallurgical assay? This is arguably the most ridiculous observation ever made.
Sorry, but I think your observation that “This is arguably the most ridiculous observation ever made.” might be more “ridiculous” than his. 😈
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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@MFeld said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@CoinOM said:
There was mention here of using apps to identify coins, and here is what I can tell you: I tried identifying this coin with CoinSnap, but—just as I expected—the program was unable to determine the uniqueness of a piece of this caliber.And how would any imaging app weigh a coin and do a metallurgical assay? This is arguably the most ridiculous observation ever made.
Sorry, but I think your observation that “This is arguably the most ridiculous observation ever made.” might be more “ridiculous” than his. 😈
Would you like me to remove "arguably"? 🤑
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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@jmlanzaf said:
@MFeld said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@CoinOM said:
There was mention here of using apps to identify coins, and here is what I can tell you: I tried identifying this coin with CoinSnap, but—just as I expected—the program was unable to determine the uniqueness of a piece of this caliber.And how would any imaging app weigh a coin and do a metallurgical assay? This is arguably the most ridiculous observation ever made.
Sorry, but I think your observation that “This is arguably the most ridiculous observation ever made.” might be more “ridiculous” than his. 😈
Would you like me to remove "arguably"? 🤑
Yes,
that, along with the rest of the sentence. 😀
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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@MFeld said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@MFeld said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@CoinOM said:
There was mention here of using apps to identify coins, and here is what I can tell you: I tried identifying this coin with CoinSnap, but—just as I expected—the program was unable to determine the uniqueness of a piece of this caliber.And how would any imaging app weigh a coin and do a metallurgical assay? This is arguably the most ridiculous observation ever made.
Sorry, but I think your observation that “This is arguably the most ridiculous observation ever made.” might be more “ridiculous” than his. 😈
Would you like me to remove "arguably"? 🤑
Yes,
that, along with the rest of the sentence. 😀
I asked my toaster to do what you suggested. Please watch this thread and let me know when it completes my request.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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@jmlanzaf said:
@CoinOM said:
@MetroD said:
@CoinOM said:
There was mention here of using apps to identify coins, and here is what I can tell you: I tried identifying this coin with CoinSnap, but—just as I expected—the program was unable to determine the uniqueness of a piece of this caliber.As I understand it, CoinSnap uses photos for identification purposes.
In this case, how would an app that relies on visual comparisons detect a difference in metal composition?
Edited to Add: "In this case,".
Yes, I understand—but on the reverse, an unusual texture was visible that, at the very least, affected details such as the FG.
You can get an "unusual texture" from everything from grease to electroplating to acid stripping to ZINC rot.
You keep ignoring my point about the thickness. Why is that? 🤔I didn't expect any remarkable results from CoinSnap; I simply shared that I had utilized every tool available to me for identification. Moreover, I scanned a blank coin planchet, and the app identified it as a 2016 cent.
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@CoinOM said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@CoinOM said:
@MetroD said:
@CoinOM said:
There was mention here of using apps to identify coins, and here is what I can tell you: I tried identifying this coin with CoinSnap, but—just as I expected—the program was unable to determine the uniqueness of a piece of this caliber.As I understand it, CoinSnap uses photos for identification purposes.
In this case, how would an app that relies on visual comparisons detect a difference in metal composition?
Edited to Add: "In this case,".
Yes, I understand—but on the reverse, an unusual texture was visible that, at the very least, affected details such as the FG.
You can get an "unusual texture" from everything from grease to electroplating to acid stripping to ZINC rot.
You keep ignoring my point about the thickness. Why is that? 🤔I didn't expect any remarkable results from CoinSnap; I simply shared that I had utilized every tool available to me for identification. Moreover, I scanned a blank coin planchet, and the app identified it as a 2016 cent.
And yet the thickness question continues to go unanswered.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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@jmlanzaf said:
@mr1931S said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@mr1931S said:
Even with copper plating a zincoln is going to make a dull thud when dropped onto a hard surface such as a glass tabletop. It's a fact. One could even do this test scientifically using an oscilloscope to see the difference in the audio waveform made, bronze (3.1g) vs. zinc core (2.5g).You don't need an oscilloscope.
YOU don't need an oscilloscope. Don't be so anti-science. It's not a good look for you.
Lmao. I'm pro-science which is why I have to keep correcting you. My cell phone can do what you want an oscilloscope to do.
These days yes
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@ambro51 said:
Where is Bongo Bongo?Good question. His input is definitely needed here, for Bongo Bongo can tell you what the date is on his penny just by listening to the sound it makes while falling out of his pocket onto the ground.
"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.
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What is the sound of one coin clapping?
Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.0 -
@jmlanzaf said:
@CoinOM said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@CoinOM said:
@MetroD said:
@CoinOM said:
There was mention here of using apps to identify coins, and here is what I can tell you: I tried identifying this coin with CoinSnap, but—just as I expected—the program was unable to determine the uniqueness of a piece of this caliber.As I understand it, CoinSnap uses photos for identification purposes.
In this case, how would an app that relies on visual comparisons detect a difference in metal composition?
Edited to Add: "In this case,".
Yes, I understand—but on the reverse, an unusual texture was visible that, at the very least, affected details such as the FG.
You can get an "unusual texture" from everything from grease to electroplating to acid stripping to ZINC rot.
You keep ignoring my point about the thickness. Why is that? 🤔I didn't expect any remarkable results from CoinSnap; I simply shared that I had utilized every tool available to me for identification. Moreover, I scanned a blank coin planchet, and the app identified it as a 2016 cent.
And yet the thickness question continues to go unanswered.
I didn't use any special tools, other than comparing it side-by-side with another coin—as you saw in the video. That footage clearly shows that the coin in question is distinctly thicker. However, it is possible that the coin's edge is simply more massive, while the coin itself remains of standard thickness. It was another oversight on my part that I failed to measure its dimensions (specifically, its thickness at the center).
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@CoinOM said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@CoinOM said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@CoinOM said:
@MetroD said:
@CoinOM said:
There was mention here of using apps to identify coins, and here is what I can tell you: I tried identifying this coin with CoinSnap, but—just as I expected—the program was unable to determine the uniqueness of a piece of this caliber.As I understand it, CoinSnap uses photos for identification purposes.
In this case, how would an app that relies on visual comparisons detect a difference in metal composition?
Edited to Add: "In this case,".
Yes, I understand—but on the reverse, an unusual texture was visible that, at the very least, affected details such as the FG.
You can get an "unusual texture" from everything from grease to electroplating to acid stripping to ZINC rot.
You keep ignoring my point about the thickness. Why is that? 🤔I didn't expect any remarkable results from CoinSnap; I simply shared that I had utilized every tool available to me for identification. Moreover, I scanned a blank coin planchet, and the app identified it as a 2016 cent.
And yet the thickness question continues to go unanswered.
I didn't use any special tools, other than comparing it side-by-side with another coin—as you saw in the video. That footage clearly shows that the coin in question is distinctly thicker. However, it is possible that the coin's edge is simply more massive, while the coin itself remains of standard thickness. It was another oversight on my part that I failed to measure its dimensions (specifically, its thickness at the center).
I simply couldn't have imagined that such battles would unfold around this object.
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That’s just because about 300 combined years of numismatic experience on this thread says you have nothing but a damaged penny.
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Redacted
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The plot is getting more and more intriguing. I’ll let you know as soon as the resolution arrives. Stay tuned for updates!
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@CoinOM said:
I didn't expect any remarkable results from CoinSnap; I simply shared that I had utilized every tool available to me for identification. Moreover, I scanned a blank coin planchet, and the app identified it as a 2016 cent.
That would be consistent with the quality of that app.
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heritage must have it
Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions0 -
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@CoinOM said:
The plot is getting more and more intriguing. I’ll let you know as soon as the resolution arrives. Stay tuned for updates!Is somebody doing a specific gravity on it for you?
Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.2 -
@CaptHenway said:
@CoinOM said:
The plot is getting more and more intriguing. I’ll let you know as soon as the resolution arrives. Stay tuned for updates!Is somebody doing a specific gravity on it for you?
Yes, it is going to be finalized with all possible expertise.
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@CoinOM said:
@CaptHenway said:
@CoinOM said:
The plot is getting more and more intriguing. I’ll let you know as soon as the resolution arrives. Stay tuned for updates!Is somebody doing a specific gravity on it for you?
Yes, it is going to be finalized with all possible expertise.
Thank you.
Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.1 -
@CaptHenway said:
@CoinOM said:
The plot is getting more and more intriguing. I’ll let you know as soon as the resolution arrives. Stay tuned for updates!Is somebody doing a specific gravity on it for you?
It's gotta come out of the holder, as you know, for the sg test.
"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.
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@Connecticoin said:
Cert Number still invalid.That's what happens when the TPG realizes they may have erred. Collectors have a responsibility, in my opinion, to give TPG who they think may have erred the opportunity to correct their mistake. Nobody, neither buyer nor seller nor TPG, wants to see incorrect or innacurate or incomplete labels encased in plastic with a coin, do they?
The label on the OP's coin is incomplete. The sg test, done properly by professional testers, should reveal if there is significant (>5%) zinc present in his coin. One could even have the label state how much Cu and how much Zn is present.
"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.
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i know this is a little off-topic, perhaps a lot off-topic, but your comment about submitters needing to let the TPGs know of errors reminded me that about two decades ago I submitted a 1950-S Roosevelt dime to PCGS that graded MS67, but was returned to me in a holder that said it was an 1827 CBH with the MS67 grade. I returned it to them to get corrected, though sometimes I wish I would have kept it as-is. It was obviously a simple coding error on their part.
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@mr1931S said:
@Connecticoin said:
Cert Number still invalid.That's what happens when the TPG realizes they may have erred. Collectors have a responsibility, in my opinion, to give TPG who they think may have erred the opportunity to correct their mistake. Nobody, neither buyer nor seller nor TPG, wants to see incorrect or innacurate or incomplete labels encased in plastic with a coin, do they?
The label on the OP's coin is incomplete. The sg test, done properly by professional testers, should reveal if there is significant (>5%) zinc present in his coin. One could even have the label state how much Cu and how much Zn is present.
I hope that once the certificate becomes available, there will no longer be any questions regarding this coin.
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@CoinOM said:
@mr1931S said:
@Connecticoin said:
Cert Number still invalid.That's what happens when the TPG realizes they may have erred. Collectors have a responsibility, in my opinion, to give TPG who they think may have erred the opportunity to correct their mistake. Nobody, neither buyer nor seller nor TPG, wants to see incorrect or innacurate or incomplete labels encased in plastic with a coin, do they?
The label on the OP's coin is incomplete. The sg test, done properly by professional testers, should reveal if there is significant (>5%) zinc present in his coin. One could even have the label state how much Cu and how much Zn is present.
I hope that once the certificate becomes available, there will no longer be any questions regarding this coin.
*if
But yes, it will remove any uncertainty from me.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
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Fingers crossed. The coin has returned to PCGS for re-evaluation.
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Good luck in your quest.
Here's to it all turning out favorably for you.3 -
I await with worms in my mouth (baited breath).
Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.1 -
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@CaptHenway said:
I await with worms in my mouth (baited breath).
2
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