@JBK said:
Yes, for the record, 1776 was the year a dramatic document was signed. The first shots of the war had been fired a few years before, and hostilities would continue for another several years.
The first shots of the Revolutionary War were fired at Lexington and Concord, Massachusetts, April 19, 1775.
The Boston Massacre was in 1770, and Wikipedia gives the dates if the American Revolution as 1765–1783. 🤷♂️
Fair enough, we probably just view the historical examples differently. My point was simply that major societal change has sometimes come through legal and negotiated processes rather than declared wars.
But bringing it back to the coin design: the familiar olive branch and arrows symbolism comes from the Great Seal adopted in 1782, where the eagle holds the olive branch in one talon and arrows in the other to represent the balance between peace and military preparedness. Later, in 1945, President Truman directed that the eagle face the olive branch, reinforcing the traditional symbolism that the nation prefers peace but remains prepared for war.
That said, this coin is part of the Semiquincentennial program commemorating 1776, and some of the earliest Revolutionary-era depictions of the American eagle emphasized arrows alone, reflecting the wartime context of the struggle for independence. So I can see what the designers may have been aiming for by referencing that earlier symbolism tied to the Revolution.
From a design standpoint, though, what feels slightly off to me is the composition. The eagle’s head is angled downward and one talon is empty, which creates a visual expectation that something should occupy that space... traditionally the olive branch. In heraldic terms, the classic U.S. eagle motif works because of the balance between the two attributes. Removing one side leaves the design feeling a bit unresolved.
That’s probably why my first reaction was that the eagle looks like it’s searching for something it dropped. It may be intentional historically, but visually it still gives the impression that the composition is missing an element.
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
@lkenefic said:
Fair enough, we probably just view the historical examples differently. My point was simply that major societal change has sometimes come through legal and negotiated processes rather than declared wars.
But bringing it back to the coin design: the familiar olive branch and arrows symbolism comes from the Great Seal adopted in 1782, where the eagle holds the olive branch in one talon and arrows in the other to represent the balance between peace and military preparedness. Later, in 1945, President Truman directed that the eagle face the olive branch, reinforcing the traditional symbolism that the nation prefers peace but remains prepared for war.
That said, this coin is part of the Semiquincentennial program commemorating 1776, and some of the earliest Revolutionary-era depictions of the American eagle emphasized arrows alone, reflecting the wartime context of the struggle for independence. So I can see what the designers may have been aiming for by referencing that earlier symbolism tied to the Revolution.
From a design standpoint, though, what feels slightly off to me is the composition. The eagle’s head is angled downward and one talon is empty, which creates a visual expectation that something should occupy that space... traditionally the olive branch. In heraldic terms, the classic U.S. eagle motif works because of the balance between the two attributes. Removing one side leaves the design feeling a bit unresolved.
That’s probably why my first reaction was that the eagle looks like it’s searching for something it dropped. It may be intentional historically, but visually it still gives the impression that the composition is missing an element.
I agree with all of that.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@sellitstore said: "For a nation whose founding symbols were carefully engineered around the balance of peace and war, that omission is hard to read as accidental."
That's a quote from the Fortune article.
What the omission means is what seems to be in dispute among members here.
I think that symbols should be clear in their meaning and, here, we as experts in our coinage, are disputing and debating it.
I think that this is good and should occur here but our hosts tend to shut down anything with a whiff of politics. Less than 24hrs old, I fear that this discussion, too, will be ended by our hosts. It's 6:30AM in California, so get your thoughts in now, as future posting could be stopped.
Please not that I'm not taking sides, just calling for a continuation of this discussion rather than censorship. I think that we, here, are better informed than the general public and our opinions will be more relevant and reliable.
There's nothing "political" about this coin or any other modern coin. They are what they are and they aren't old yet so when we talk about them most of those who bring them into existence are still alive and now days people want to politicize EVERYTHING from coins to simple concepts like "LIBERTY".
Coins aren't political. They are a reflection of society and culture and this design is one of the most artistic in our entire history since early in the last century.
Current events spark controversy but coins are not by nature "political".
There's no crime talking about modern coins if we keep our politcal opinions to ourselves.
Had Biden won the Presidency, would we be looking at a different designed coin? The article I posted says, we would of had.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
@sellitstore said: "For a nation whose founding symbols were carefully engineered around the balance of peace and war, that omission is hard to read as accidental."
That's a quote from the Fortune article.
What the omission means is what seems to be in dispute among members here.
I think that symbols should be clear in their meaning and, here, we as experts in our coinage, are disputing and debating it.
I think that this is good and should occur here but our hosts tend to shut down anything with a whiff of politics. Less than 24hrs old, I fear that this discussion, too, will be ended by our hosts. It's 6:30AM in California, so get your thoughts in now, as future posting could be stopped.
Please not that I'm not taking sides, just calling for a continuation of this discussion rather than censorship. I think that we, here, are better informed than the general public and our opinions will be more relevant and reliable.
There's nothing "political" about this coin or any other modern coin. They are what they are and they aren't old yet so when we talk about them most of those who bring them into existence are still alive and now days people want to politicize EVERYTHING from coins to simple concepts like "LIBERTY".
Coins aren't political. They are a reflection of society and culture and this design is one of the most artistic in our entire history since early in the last century.
Current events spark controversy but coins are not by nature "political".
There's no crime talking about modern coins if we keep our politcal opinions to ourselves.
Had Biden won the Presidency, would we be looking at a different designed coin? The article I posted says, we would of had.
Leo
That design is FROM 2024. So, no, you wouldn't be looking at a different design.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@sellitstore said: "For a nation whose founding symbols were carefully engineered around the balance of peace and war, that omission is hard to read as accidental."
That's a quote from the Fortune article.
What the omission means is what seems to be in dispute among members here.
I think that symbols should be clear in their meaning and, here, we as experts in our coinage, are disputing and debating it.
I think that this is good and should occur here but our hosts tend to shut down anything with a whiff of politics. Less than 24hrs old, I fear that this discussion, too, will be ended by our hosts. It's 6:30AM in California, so get your thoughts in now, as future posting could be stopped.
Please not that I'm not taking sides, just calling for a continuation of this discussion rather than censorship. I think that we, here, are better informed than the general public and our opinions will be more relevant and reliable.
There's nothing "political" about this coin or any other modern coin. They are what they are and they aren't old yet so when we talk about them most of those who bring them into existence are still alive and now days people want to politicize EVERYTHING from coins to simple concepts like "LIBERTY".
Coins aren't political. They are a reflection of society and culture and this design is one of the most artistic in our entire history since early in the last century.
Current events spark controversy but coins are not by nature "political".
There's no crime talking about modern coins if we keep our politcal opinions to ourselves.
Had Biden won the Presidency, would we be looking at a different designed coin? The article I posted says, we would of had.
Leo
LOL It would probably be a eagle holding a pride flag
@johnny9434 said:
I dont like the position of many mint marks. Nothing wrong it just seems a bit displaced there, jmo
Some of those are designers' initials, which quite often seem out of place.
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author of "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
Can we just say it's the "missing olive branch" variety and be done with it? If the Mint really wanted to mess with us, let them mint a few hundred dimes with an olive branch and have this thread grow even longer!
The design looks like it was cobbled together by a committee. How many different fonts did they use on that thing? And the location of the mintmark? Yikes!
The truculent pose of the eagle is consistent with the arrows (only) and coveys the spirit of the revolution, which included a war. It wasn’t a peaceful revolution, alas that is our heritage, like it or not.
Gotta ask: Why arrows? That was not the weapon of choice at the time. Also, if a majority of people are right-handed then why not put the weapon in the right claw?
Is that supposed to be an androgynous face?
Just remember...the advice you receive on the site is worth every bit of what you paid for it.
@sellitstore said: "For a nation whose founding symbols were carefully engineered around the balance of peace and war, that omission is hard to read as accidental."
That's a quote from the Fortune article.
What the omission means is what seems to be in dispute among members here.
I think that symbols should be clear in their meaning and, here, we as experts in our coinage, are disputing and debating it.
I think that this is good and should occur here but our hosts tend to shut down anything with a whiff of politics. Less than 24hrs old, I fear that this discussion, too, will be ended by our hosts. It's 6:30AM in California, so get your thoughts in now, as future posting could be stopped.
Please not that I'm not taking sides, just calling for a continuation of this discussion rather than censorship. I think that we, here, are better informed than the general public and our opinions will be more relevant and reliable.
There's nothing "political" about this coin or any other modern coin. They are what they are and they aren't old yet so when we talk about them most of those who bring them into existence are still alive and now days people want to politicize EVERYTHING from coins to simple concepts like "LIBERTY".
Coins aren't political. They are a reflection of society and culture and this design is one of the most artistic in our entire history since early in the last century.
Current events spark controversy but coins are not by nature "political".
There's no crime talking about modern coins if we keep our politcal opinions to ourselves.
Had Biden won the Presidency, would we be looking at a different designed coin? The article I posted says, we would of had.
Leo
Was Biden on your ballot?
Just remember...the advice you receive on the site is worth every bit of what you paid for it.
@MasonG said:
The design looks like it was cobbled together by a committee. How many different fonts did they use on that thing? And the location of the mintmark? Yikes!
I do agree with you, I like it somewhat. I really wish they had used the other proposed design: So much better in my opinion!
@TPring said:
Gotta ask: Why arrows? That was not the weapon of choice at the time. Also, if a majority of people are right-handed then why not put the weapon in the right claw?
Is that supposed to be an androgynous face?
mebbe it carries left and throws right,
muskets weighed a ton and this thing was airforce.
@JBK said:
Yes, for the record, 1776 was the year a dramatic document was signed. The first shots of the war had been fired a few years before, and hostilities would continue for another several years.
The first shots of the Revolutionary War were fired at Lexington and Concord, Massachusetts, April 19, 1775.
The Boston Massacre was in 1770, and Wikipedia gives the dates if the American Revolution as 1765–1783. 🤷♂️
This is an interesting question. When did the revolutionary war begin? Working just off my memory, didn’t the Continental Congress establish the Continental Army on 14 June 1775 and appointed George Washington commander that same month? Do you even need an army to have a war? I don’t think so. There were many instances of revolt and gun fire before Lexington and Concord, but do those constitute a war? I haven’t made up my mind yet.
In any event, I intend to pick up one of these dimes to have this conversation with others.
OT but I’m disappointed that the dime will revert after this year. 80 years with the same design is more that enough. Perhaps a vigorous rendition of Lincoln, along the lines of the Jefferson redo. And let go of the cent completely.
I hate all the initials all over the coin, other than that its cool!
Maybe people will complain and it will end up like the '09VDB: They will later remove the initials and the early version will become a collector's piece.
Just remember...the advice you receive on the site is worth every bit of what you paid for it.
@Acarroll said:
It's a nefarious plot by big butter to make us all forget about olives and olive oil.
You get a pat on the head for that one.
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author of "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
Comments
The Boston Massacre was in 1770, and Wikipedia gives the dates if the American Revolution as 1765–1783. 🤷♂️
Here you go 😉
Mr_Spud
Fair enough, we probably just view the historical examples differently. My point was simply that major societal change has sometimes come through legal and negotiated processes rather than declared wars.
But bringing it back to the coin design: the familiar olive branch and arrows symbolism comes from the Great Seal adopted in 1782, where the eagle holds the olive branch in one talon and arrows in the other to represent the balance between peace and military preparedness. Later, in 1945, President Truman directed that the eagle face the olive branch, reinforcing the traditional symbolism that the nation prefers peace but remains prepared for war.
That said, this coin is part of the Semiquincentennial program commemorating 1776, and some of the earliest Revolutionary-era depictions of the American eagle emphasized arrows alone, reflecting the wartime context of the struggle for independence. So I can see what the designers may have been aiming for by referencing that earlier symbolism tied to the Revolution.
From a design standpoint, though, what feels slightly off to me is the composition. The eagle’s head is angled downward and one talon is empty, which creates a visual expectation that something should occupy that space... traditionally the olive branch. In heraldic terms, the classic U.S. eagle motif works because of the balance between the two attributes. Removing one side leaves the design feeling a bit unresolved.
That’s probably why my first reaction was that the eagle looks like it’s searching for something it dropped. It may be intentional historically, but visually it still gives the impression that the composition is missing an element.
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Peace through strength.
I agree with all of that.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Had Biden won the Presidency, would we be looking at a different designed coin? The article I posted says, we would of had.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
That design is FROM 2024. So, no, you wouldn't be looking at a different design.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
That's the answer! Thanks for having the courage too say it.
LOL It would probably be a eagle holding a pride flag
I dont like the position of many mint marks. Nothing wrong it just seems a bit displaced there, jmo
Some of those are designers' initials, which quite often seem out of place.
Desperate patriots do desperate things for freedom.
“Land of the free because of the brave”
“Saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone”
In Deo solo confidimus
Interesting thread. I do like the new dime. 👍
My YouTube Channel
It is my favorite of the SemiQ coins. The others are fairly hackneyed.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Can we just say it's the "missing olive branch" variety and be done with it? If the Mint really wanted to mess with us, let them mint a few hundred dimes with an olive branch and have this thread grow even longer!
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
Completely agree.
I may get the 2026 silver proof set and 90% of my reasoning would be for that dime…
If anyone has the dime silver proof alone certified, I might just do that… I’m sure it won’t be cheap 😆
My YouTube Channel
We have a business strike in the store, not for sale, just to show people…
It’s the only one I’ve seen in person so far… I made a quick video:
https://youtube.com/shorts/OcvyiTFhZnQ?si=jOhhTZBO4AHcft0Y
My YouTube Channel
The design looks like it was cobbled together by a committee. How many different fonts did they use on that thing? And the location of the mintmark? Yikes!
The truculent pose of the eagle is consistent with the arrows (only) and coveys the spirit of the revolution, which included a war. It wasn’t a peaceful revolution, alas that is our heritage, like it or not.
Gotta ask: Why arrows? That was not the weapon of choice at the time. Also, if a majority of people are right-handed then why not put the weapon in the right claw?
Is that supposed to be an androgynous face?
Just remember...the advice you receive on the site is worth every bit of what you paid for it.
Was Biden on your ballot?
Just remember...the advice you receive on the site is worth every bit of what you paid for it.
Always wonder why people argue about things that they can't do a damn thing about...............
.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
I swear they used to put a thumbnail when a video link was posted… I appreciate you putting the picture in there 👍
My YouTube Channel
I do agree with you, I like it somewhat. I really wish they had used the other proposed design:
So much better in my opinion!
My YouTube Channel
No olive branches or arrows.
When hunting the waters
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I hate all the initials all over the coin, other than that its cool!
Nice tune
mebbe it carries left and throws right,
muskets weighed a ton and this thing was airforce.
it looks vigilant so I guess so.
It's a nefarious plot by big butter to make us all forget about olives and olive oil.
This is an interesting question. When did the revolutionary war begin? Working just off my memory, didn’t the Continental Congress establish the Continental Army on 14 June 1775 and appointed George Washington commander that same month? Do you even need an army to have a war? I don’t think so. There were many instances of revolt and gun fire before Lexington and Concord, but do those constitute a war? I haven’t made up my mind yet.
In any event, I intend to pick up one of these dimes to have this conversation with others.
OT but I’m disappointed that the dime will revert after this year. 80 years with the same design is more that enough. Perhaps a vigorous rendition of Lincoln, along the lines of the Jefferson redo. And let go of the cent completely.
Maybe people will complain and it will end up like the '09VDB: They will later remove the initials and the early version will become a collector's piece.
Just remember...the advice you receive on the site is worth every bit of what you paid for it.
You get a pat on the head for that one.
If someone pats my head they might lose a hand
You didn’t see what he did.
I'm a little distracted today
A pat of butter?
Just remember...the advice you receive on the site is worth every bit of what you paid for it.
Is that a Boston?
Just remember...the advice you receive on the site is worth every bit of what you paid for it.
Or mebbe poked with a stick for bringing in politics.
Pug
A couple of cuties...Great dogs.
Just remember...the advice you receive on the site is worth every bit of what you paid for it.
They're the goodest girls