@derryb said:
It's pretty much hit it's price bottom. Awaiting termination.
Hi Derryb, are you rich yet? If so congrats!!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Retiring at 55, what day is today?
Gregory Mannarino says that the Fed is pumping huge amounts of dollars to other central banks around the world. If that's the case, Deutsche Bank would probably be a prime target, but somehow this Fed move involves almost all of the world's central banks.
There are huge implications in a flood of debt being distributed worldwide by the Fed - by a group of private bankers, operating under the auspices of the US government and backed by the future earnings of US taxpayers in perpetuity.
I don't recall voting for any of this.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@jmski52 said:
Gregory Mannarino says that the Fed is pumping huge amounts of dollars to other central banks around the world. If that's the case, Deutsche Bank would probably be a prime target, but somehow this Fed move involves almost all of the world's central banks.
There are huge implications in a flood of debt being distributed worldwide by the Fed - by a group of private bankers, operating under the auspices of the US government and backed by the future earnings of US taxpayers in perpetuity.
I don't recall voting for any of this.
that's because they weren't all elected.
When gold and silver move together, it signals the coming end of fiat money.
@derryb said:
It's pretty much hit it's price bottom. Awaiting termination.
Hi Derryb, are you rich yet? If so congrats!!
Well, the Deutsche bank conspiracy never came to fruition but @Derryb did get rich so congratulations, brother. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Retiring at 55, what day is today?
US bails out european banks that have dangerous exposure to US economy. Occured numerous times during 08 crises.
You obviously formed an opinion without reading the link
When gold and silver move together, it signals the coming end of fiat money.
@derryb said:
US bails out european banks that have dangerous exposure to US economy. Occured numerous times during 08 >crises. You obviously formed an opinion without reading the link
The link is garbage. Most of the posts here were way off the mark.
I'm in a position to know since I worked for DB. It IS a terribly run bank -- idiots in Germany and clowns from Bankers Trust running the U.S. operations. But there was no bailout for the amount cited, it's total garbage. The bank had much less exposure than U.S. banks to subprime mortgages. Their problem was with Euro-denominated debt. DB was in trouble for the BT merger (bad) and being overregulated and forced to subsidize bad businesses in the EU (really really bad). You won't read about that here, fellas...but I was liquidating the bank's capital to buy these crap assets for politically-connected businesses and NGOs.
Here's what that link is saying in effect. My father lent me $10,000 to buy my first house. I told him I'd pay him back once I sold some assets; he said don't worry. I said I should have the $$$ in a month or so. Then my stock got hit....I had to wait a year to get my price.
Did my father lend me $10,000.....or $120,000 ($10,000 x 12 months) ?? Because that's the math that clown website employs.
@MsMorrisine said:
i see no mention of a bailout for the us unit in 2019 outside of the one questionable site
No bailout. Swap lines used as LOC. Secured by Tier 1 assets and/or Preferred Stock higher than equity in the capital structure and sometimes pari parsu with debt.
Derry, that table is useless. Banks borrow from the Fed Discount and SOMA windows all the time. That's not a bailout. Repos and Reverse Repos are part of normal monetary policy.
This is a fraudulent misleading bunch of numbers put out by anti-Wall Street Leftists and Anarchists. The only "bailout" funds were TARP.
@GoldFinger1969 said:
Derry, that table is useless. Banks borrow from the Fed Discount and SOMA windows all the time. That's not a bailout. Repos and Reverse Repos are part of normal monetary policy.
This is a fraudulent misleading bunch of numbers put out by anti-Wall Street Leftists and Anarchists. The only "bailout" funds were TARP.
Deutsche Bank took $277 billion in TSLF. The Term Securities Lending Facility was a 28-day facility managed by the United States Federal Reserve offering Treasury general collateral to the primary dealers in exchange for other program-eligible collateral. It was created to combat the liquidity crisis in American banks as a result of the subprime mortgage crisis and the 2008 financial crisis.
They also took $77 billion from TAF. Term Auction Facility was a temporary program managed by the United States Federal Reserve designed to "address elevated pressures in short-term funding markets." The program was initiated in December 2007 in response to the mortgage liquidity crisis.
These were not repos or reverse repos. They were emergency funding based on assets that were not mark-to-market. Deutsche Bank paid back these loans, but absent these loans, they would have failed.
@GoldFinger1969 said:
Derry, that table is useless. Banks borrow from the Fed Discount and SOMA windows all the time. That's not a bailout. Repos and Reverse Repos are part of normal monetary policy.
This is a fraudulent misleading bunch of numbers put out by anti-Wall Street Leftists and Anarchists. The only "bailout" funds were TARP.
Deutsche Bank took $277 billion in TSLF. The Term Securities Lending Facility was a 28-day facility managed by the United States Federal Reserve offering Treasury general collateral to the primary dealers in exchange for other program-eligible collateral. It was created to combat the liquidity crisis in American banks as a result of the subprime mortgage crisis and the 2008 financial crisis.
They also took $77 billion from TAF. Term Auction Facility was a temporary program managed by the United States Federal Reserve designed to "address elevated pressures in short-term funding markets." The program was initiated in December 2007 in response to the mortgage liquidity crisis.
These were not repos or reverse repos. They were emergency funding based on assets that were not mark-to-market. Deutsche Bank paid back these loans, but absent these loans, they would have failed.
that was well before the time-frame of the start of this thread
@taxmad said:
These were not repos or reverse repos. They were emergency funding based on assets that were not mark-to->market. Deutsche Bank paid back these loans, but absent these loans, they would have failed.
They were designed to add liquidity to the Repo market. The TOTAL was under $300 BB as I recall, maybe $250 BB. The Fed made about $1 billion in fees. 99.9% of the assets were money-good.
They wouldn't have failed.
The sheet above says that Citibank needed $2.5 trillion in "bailout" money when Citigroups entire asset base in the bank facility was about $1.3 trillion. You have to believe that every asset was worthless to believe that number. Even the entire bank holding company didn't have $2.5 trillion.
TARP was the only "bailout" money and it was paid back by every Wall Street bank. Labor unions and small banks received preferential treatment and didn't pay back the funds. JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs didn't want any $$$ but were forced to take the $$$ at gunpoint in effect BAILING OUT the government (or at least helping them out) while diluting their own shareholders.
Citibank stock is still down 80% from 2007 levels as shareholders were diluted to hell. Some "bailout" !!!
Lending facilities are not bailouts as they do not change the capital structure or amount to any non-arms length transactions. They're designed to prevent financial panics -- the very reason the Fed was created.
The Fed did its job. Case Closed, as Gerald Posner says.
That is NOT by the way GAO data. This is closer to the actual numbers; it's from GAO directly, not someone putting numbers together and SAYING they are from GAO:
@GoldFinger1969 said:
Derry, that table is useless. Banks borrow from the Fed Discount and SOMA windows all the time. That's not a bailout. Repos and Reverse Repos are part of normal monetary policy.
This is a fraudulent misleading bunch of numbers put out by anti-Wall Street Leftists and Anarchists. The only "bailout" funds were TARP.
The bottom line is that during the 2008-2011 financial crisis approx $4-$7 TRILL in MBS failed and $35 BILL in Credit Default Swaps went poof. The whole system was bailed out and papered over. Winners were paid out.....losers were either bailed out or left to fail (ie Lehman Bros., AIG, RBS, and others). The $16 TRILL or so listed on the chart posted by derryb seems reasonable for what actually transpired. Let's not forget that the BIS revamped the reporting on OTC Derivatives from marked to market to marked to model in Fall of 2008, clouding over exactly what happened. The total notional value "changed" from $1.14 Quadrillion to $683 Trillion in sequential quarterly reporting periods. TARP, TALF and other programs weren't where the worst fires were. The real Voodoo occurs in the OTC derivatives held by the big banks and reported only by BIS in the most generic and vague forms.
Private credit is 5% of the loan book....maybe 20% of that is software....maybe 10-15% of that is impaired with 30-50 cents on the dollar being paid back.
@roadrunner said:
The bottom line is that during the 2008-2011 financial crisis approx $4-$7 TRILL in MBS failed and $35 BILL in Credit >Default Swaps went poof.
MBS market was $9.5 trillion in 2008. Only a few hundred billion in Agency GSEs failed; about the same amount in non-Agency. Total "bad" MBS well under $1 trillion.
The whole system was bailed out and papered over. Winners were paid out.....losers were either bailed out or left >to fail (ie Lehman Bros., AIG, RBS, and others).
The problem wasn't the assets. It was the leverage. See, Carlyle Capital for what happens when leverage is too high, RR.
The $16 TRILL or so listed on the chart posted by derryb seems reasonable for what actually transpired. Let's not >forget that the BIS revamped the reporting on OTC Derivatives from marked to market to marked to model in Fall of >2008, clouding over exactly what happened. The total notional value "changed" from $1.14 Quadrillion to $683 >Trillion in sequential quarterly reporting periods. TARP, TALF and other programs weren't where the worst fires >were. The real Voodoo occurs in the OTC derivatives held by the big banks and reported only by BIS in the most
generic and vague forms.
Those numbers are bogus. The people who put them out don't even know what they are talking about. Ask them about the $36 billion bailout of the Teamsters CSPF Madoff-like Pension Ponzi Scheme -- real $$$, a real bailout -- not like these Quadrillion non-existent number things. If the banks were "short" a few Quintillion in derivatives...then who was long ? Where's the bailout ?
I see conspiracy websites pledging the apocalypse but like Clara in 1984.....where's the beef ?
I think there's a lot more to the financial crises causes then just the FNMA/GNMA backed MBS. MLPF&S, CIti, Wachovia, and others were privately creating these mortgage trusts backed by their firms' full faith & credit and sold to institutions, primarily money markets with a guaranteed buy-back at par. They were the market and the money markets didn't have to sell in the bond market if there were heavy redemption days. This allowed the firms to earn an annuity on top of the investment fees as they were the marketing agent. They then bought credit default swaps with AIG for protection that got the AAA bond rating, oops. We know where that went. These trusts greatly exceed the capital of the firms and the Govt had to protect the money market business.
Private credit is 5% of the loan book....maybe 20% of that is software....maybe 10-15% of that is impaired with 30-50 cents on the dollar being paid back.
So net losses of about 25-40 bp. Nothing.
Agree.
Once Countrywide and Lehman couldn't get any more money they went bust.
Private equity / principals will be forced to contribute or lose the businesses. Mark it down take the losses. They have the ability to stay in and work the issues. They may take a haircut but there will not be contagion ramifications even close to the numbers on the FC mortgage defaults.
Interesting that private equity funds were allowed in 401K plan assets starting last year. Wonder if they knew they needed another cash infusion source because the institutions were growing weary of their growth and exposure.
Coastal, the PE guys have more cash that is uninvested. I think the LAST thing they need is more $$$ !!
On LEH, MLPF&S, CW, etc.: focus on the leverage, NOT the assets. The assets were mediocre-to-crap overall but the leverage was the killer.
Govt didn't bail out any money market funds. Only Reserve Fund broke-the-buck on retail (97 cents). I think 2 other institutional money funds broke the buck 25-30 years ago.
True Story: I interviewed with Reserve Fund about 9-12 months before the crisis. I met with the son of the founder who unlike his father was stretching for yield (Bruce Bent was famous for saying a MMF was supposed to safe, dull, and boring). It was one of the worst interviews I ever had (probably why I remember it so well ). He clearly didn't like my strategy and basically walked out of the interview room. Some junior person came in to finish the interview and then I let myself out. I think I wrote a letter to the HR person or someone at the firm stating I thought the guy was totally unprofessional, didn't know s*** about credit quality, and was lucky he was related to the founder.
18 months later, he was out of a job and the firm went under.
Comments
no one is watching DB but me?
It's pretty much hit it's price bottom. Awaiting termination.
When gold and silver move together, it signals the coming end of fiat money.
Hi Derryb, are you rich yet? If so congrats!!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Retiring at 55, what day is today?
born rich.
When gold and silver move together, it signals the coming end of fiat money.
Gregory Mannarino says that the Fed is pumping huge amounts of dollars to other central banks around the world. If that's the case, Deutsche Bank would probably be a prime target, but somehow this Fed move involves almost all of the world's central banks.
There are huge implications in a flood of debt being distributed worldwide by the Fed - by a group of private bankers, operating under the auspices of the US government and backed by the future earnings of US taxpayers in perpetuity.
I don't recall voting for any of this.
I knew it would happen.
that's because they weren't all elected.
When gold and silver move together, it signals the coming end of fiat money.
waiting!
Well, the Deutsche bank conspiracy never came to fruition but @Derryb did get rich so congratulations, brother. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Retiring at 55, what day is today?
bailout
When gold and silver move together, it signals the coming end of fiat money.
Ive been waiting about a year for someone to bump this thread. Up until Dec 7, the European company was outperforming the shiny gray metal.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
$354B bailout by US
When gold and silver move together, it signals the coming end of fiat money.
it's a german bank
US bails out european banks that have dangerous exposure to US economy. Occured numerous times during 08 crises.
You obviously formed an opinion without reading the link
When gold and silver move together, it signals the coming end of fiat money.
i see no mention of a bailout for the us unit in 2019 outside of the one questionable site
any way. its a german bank that would receive money from someplace across the atlantic. not from the us government.
but, again, there is no mention of a bailout from any other place
The link is garbage. Most of the posts here were way off the mark.
I'm in a position to know since I worked for DB. It IS a terribly run bank -- idiots in Germany and clowns from Bankers Trust running the U.S. operations. But there was no bailout for the amount cited, it's total garbage. The bank had much less exposure than U.S. banks to subprime mortgages. Their problem was with Euro-denominated debt. DB was in trouble for the BT merger (bad) and being overregulated and forced to subsidize bad businesses in the EU (really really bad). You won't read about that here, fellas...but I was liquidating the bank's capital to buy these crap assets for politically-connected businesses and NGOs.
Here's what that link is saying in effect. My father lent me $10,000 to buy my first house. I told him I'd pay him back once I sold some assets; he said don't worry. I said I should have the $$$ in a month or so. Then my stock got hit....I had to wait a year to get my price.
Did my father lend me $10,000.....or $120,000 ($10,000 x 12 months) ?? Because that's the math that clown website employs.
No bailout. Swap lines used as LOC. Secured by Tier 1 assets and/or Preferred Stock higher than equity in the capital structure and sometimes pari parsu with debt.
I think that tout sheet will have a bit of trouble being taken seriously on financial matters when they have headlines like this:
News Host Joy Reid Raises Threat of Trump Selling U.S. to Putin; Ten Days Later Her Show Is Cancelled
When gold and silver move together, it signals the coming end of fiat money.
Derry, that table is useless. Banks borrow from the Fed Discount and SOMA windows all the time. That's not a bailout. Repos and Reverse Repos are part of normal monetary policy.
This is a fraudulent misleading bunch of numbers put out by anti-Wall Street Leftists and Anarchists. The only "bailout" funds were TARP.
Deutsche Bank took $277 billion in TSLF. The Term Securities Lending Facility was a 28-day facility managed by the United States Federal Reserve offering Treasury general collateral to the primary dealers in exchange for other program-eligible collateral. It was created to combat the liquidity crisis in American banks as a result of the subprime mortgage crisis and the 2008 financial crisis.
They also took $77 billion from TAF. Term Auction Facility was a temporary program managed by the United States Federal Reserve designed to "address elevated pressures in short-term funding markets." The program was initiated in December 2007 in response to the mortgage liquidity crisis.
These were not repos or reverse repos. They were emergency funding based on assets that were not mark-to-market. Deutsche Bank paid back these loans, but absent these loans, they would have failed.
that was well before the time-frame of the start of this thread
They were designed to add liquidity to the Repo market. The TOTAL was under $300 BB as I recall, maybe $250 BB. The Fed made about $1 billion in fees. 99.9% of the assets were money-good.
They wouldn't have failed.
The sheet above says that Citibank needed $2.5 trillion in "bailout" money when Citigroups entire asset base in the bank facility was about $1.3 trillion. You have to believe that every asset was worthless to believe that number. Even the entire bank holding company didn't have $2.5 trillion.
TARP was the only "bailout" money and it was paid back by every Wall Street bank. Labor unions and small banks received preferential treatment and didn't pay back the funds. JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs didn't want any $$$ but were forced to take the $$$ at gunpoint in effect BAILING OUT the government (or at least helping them out) while diluting their own shareholders.
Citibank stock is still down 80% from 2007 levels as shareholders were diluted to hell. Some "bailout" !!!
Lending facilities are not bailouts as they do not change the capital structure or amount to any non-arms length transactions. They're designed to prevent financial panics -- the very reason the Fed was created.
The Fed did its job. Case Closed, as Gerald Posner says.
That is NOT by the way GAO data. This is closer to the actual numbers; it's from GAO directly, not someone putting numbers together and SAYING they are from GAO:
https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-24-107033
Please note that TARP Capital programs (i.e., bank re-capitalization) made the Treasury $$$$....the other "social justice" nonsense took a bath.
The bottom line is that during the 2008-2011 financial crisis approx $4-$7 TRILL in MBS failed and $35 BILL in Credit Default Swaps went poof. The whole system was bailed out and papered over. Winners were paid out.....losers were either bailed out or left to fail (ie Lehman Bros., AIG, RBS, and others). The $16 TRILL or so listed on the chart posted by derryb seems reasonable for what actually transpired. Let's not forget that the BIS revamped the reporting on OTC Derivatives from marked to market to marked to model in Fall of 2008, clouding over exactly what happened. The total notional value "changed" from $1.14 Quadrillion to $683 Trillion in sequential quarterly reporting periods. TARP, TALF and other programs weren't where the worst fires were. The real Voodoo occurs in the OTC derivatives held by the big banks and reported only by BIS in the most generic and vague forms.
Once again Deutsche Bank flirts with disaster.
When gold and silver move together, it signals the coming end of fiat money.
The headline is different than the substance.
Private credit is 5% of the loan book....maybe 20% of that is software....maybe 10-15% of that is impaired with 30-50 cents on the dollar being paid back.
So net losses of about 25-40 bp. Nothing.
MBS market was $9.5 trillion in 2008. Only a few hundred billion in Agency GSEs failed; about the same amount in non-Agency. Total "bad" MBS well under $1 trillion.
The problem wasn't the assets. It was the leverage. See, Carlyle Capital for what happens when leverage is too high, RR.
Those numbers are bogus. The people who put them out don't even know what they are talking about. Ask them about the $36 billion bailout of the Teamsters CSPF Madoff-like Pension Ponzi Scheme -- real $$$, a real bailout -- not like these Quadrillion non-existent number things. If the banks were "short" a few Quintillion in derivatives...then who was long ? Where's the bailout ?
I see conspiracy websites pledging the apocalypse but like Clara in 1984.....where's the beef ?
but
that
was
before
the
OP
I think there's a lot more to the financial crises causes then just the FNMA/GNMA backed MBS. MLPF&S, CIti, Wachovia, and others were privately creating these mortgage trusts backed by their firms' full faith & credit and sold to institutions, primarily money markets with a guaranteed buy-back at par. They were the market and the money markets didn't have to sell in the bond market if there were heavy redemption days. This allowed the firms to earn an annuity on top of the investment fees as they were the marketing agent. They then bought credit default swaps with AIG for protection that got the AAA bond rating, oops. We know where that went. These trusts greatly exceed the capital of the firms and the Govt had to protect the money market business.
Agree.
Once Countrywide and Lehman couldn't get any more money they went bust.
Private equity / principals will be forced to contribute or lose the businesses. Mark it down take the losses. They have the ability to stay in and work the issues. They may take a haircut but there will not be contagion ramifications even close to the numbers on the FC mortgage defaults.
Interesting that private equity funds were allowed in 401K plan assets starting last year. Wonder if they knew they needed another cash infusion source because the institutions were growing weary of their growth and exposure.
Coastal, the PE guys have more cash that is uninvested. I think the LAST thing they need is more $$$ !!
On LEH, MLPF&S, CW, etc.: focus on the leverage, NOT the assets. The assets were mediocre-to-crap overall but the leverage was the killer.
Govt didn't bail out any money market funds. Only Reserve Fund broke-the-buck on retail (97 cents). I think 2 other institutional money funds broke the buck 25-30 years ago.
True Story: I interviewed with Reserve Fund about 9-12 months before the crisis. I met with the son of the founder who unlike his father was stretching for yield (Bruce Bent was famous for saying a MMF was supposed to safe, dull, and boring). It was one of the worst interviews I ever had (probably why I remember it so well
). He clearly didn't like my strategy and basically walked out of the interview room. Some junior person came in to finish the interview and then I let myself out. I think I wrote a letter to the HR person or someone at the firm stating I thought the guy was totally unprofessional, didn't know s*** about credit quality, and was lucky he was related to the founder.
18 months later, he was out of a job and the firm went under.