@mr1931S said:
Am I invited to speak with Sheila? The three of us could have a discussion about Rockwells.
I'm suspicious about 2nd edition even existing as you are presenting it. We've all seen plenty of altered images here. My own experience is I've never managed to find a copy to buy of 1st or 2nd Harsche. That's all I have to say on this matter of Harsche editions preceding the 3rd.
I would add this:
I suspect that 2nd edition Harsche does not have section on 1909-S and 1909-S V.D.B. cents. I would be convinced of 2nd edition Harsche's existence if I could get one in my hands. It's a mystery at this point, far as I'm concerned. The 3rd edition, copyright 1964, is the first recognized-by-me published work on identifying obverse die varieties of 1909-S Lincoln cents so unless and until I'm proven wrong about this that's what we go with. If 2nd edition , copyright 1963, shows all those different obverses for 1909-S Lincoln cents, then we can credit Harsche with one year earlier than previously thought being first published, can't we?
We? Who is we? There is no we. You are alone on an island like a leper.
No one cares even a little bit other than giving you a hard time...which you have well and truly earned.
Leave yourself out of "we" then. I've got more support here than you might think. "We" is the silent majority. We don't know everything there is to know but we do know this: Going the route of participating in this forum's staggering buffoonery instigated by a few, a very few, is most undignified of you, huffy one.
Since Harsche's six, three more 1909-S obverses have been discovered. There are presently nine obverse die varieties now known to have been used to make 1909-S Lincoln cents both with and without V.D.B. I have been endeavoring to find additional ones which there most surely are. My Powerpoint Victor slideshow project has been helpful but is no substitute for coin-in-hand inspection.
I've got some exciting threads unrelated to 1909-S pennies coming up here for veterans and newbies alike to enjoy but ask that you not post in them if you can't control your propensity for huffiness. Change the channel if you don't like what it's showing is my recommendation for you.
The silent majority is smarter than me; they ignore your posts because your posts are nearly entirely absurd. They are not waiting with baited breath for your next round of misinformation.
FACT: Your nonsense, unsubstantiated/disproven claims, and awful advice have the potential to steer the innocent in the wrong direction.
I'm not huffy at all; I'm dumbfounded at your extremely misplaced certainty. However, if you spew nonsense as fact (as is your wont), prepare to be called out on it. If you don't like that, stop posting ridiculousness.
Why do you put so much effort into resisting learning something new? I try to learn something new every day. So should you.
Not me, not PCGS, not anyone participating in this forum published the first work on identifying 1909-S obverse die varieties. It was Bert Harsche and his team of numismatists that accomplished this. And you have the gall to call me ridiculous for sharing a historical fact like this here?
This isn’t the thread for your continued discussion of other topics. Feel free to start a different thread, rather then continuing to derail this one.
Buffoonery has derailed this thread, not me.
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
@chattycoins said:
Hey people! What do you think of this? Thanks for hanging in there with me! What can I use to clean this coin up? Thanks again!
Try soaking this piece in vinegar (mild acetic acid) and then use a soft brush on it. Acetone isn't going to work to lighten it up. If you aren't getting results you desire with vinegar, even after repeated soakings and brushings, try using a bright dip like is used by collectors to remove tarnish on silver dollars. I use Zenith Solutions Silver and Coin Cleaner 292 for bright dipping but there are other products out there that will do a fine job of brightening your silver dime.
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
@mr1931S said:
Try soaking this piece in vinegar (mild acetic acid) and then use a soft brush on it. Acetone isn't going to work to lighten it up. If you aren't getting results you desire with vinegar, even after repeated soakings and brushings, try using a bright dip like is used by collectors to remove tarnish on silver dollars. I use Zenith Solutions Silver and Coin Cleaner 292 for bright dipping but there are other products out there that will do a fine job of brightening your silver dime.
@mr1931S said:
Am I invited to speak with Sheila? The three of us could have a discussion about Rockwells.
I'm suspicious about 2nd edition even existing as you are presenting it. We've all seen plenty of altered images here. My own experience is I've never managed to find a copy to buy of 1st or 2nd Harsche. That's all I have to say on this matter of Harsche editions preceding the 3rd.
I would add this:
I suspect that 2nd edition Harsche does not have section on 1909-S and 1909-S V.D.B. cents. I would be convinced of 2nd edition Harsche's existence if I could get one in my hands. It's a mystery at this point, far as I'm concerned. The 3rd edition, copyright 1964, is the first recognized-by-me published work on identifying obverse die varieties of 1909-S Lincoln cents so unless and until I'm proven wrong about this that's what we go with. If 2nd edition , copyright 1963, shows all those different obverses for 1909-S Lincoln cents, then we can credit Harsche with one year earlier than previously thought being first published, can't we?
We? Who is we? There is no we. You are alone on an island like a leper.
No one cares even a little bit other than giving you a hard time...which you have well and truly earned.
Leave yourself out of "we" then. I've got more support here than you might think. "We" is the silent majority. We don't know everything there is to know but we do know this: Going the route of participating in this forum's staggering buffoonery instigated by a few, a very few, is most undignified of you, huffy one.
Since Harsche's six, three more 1909-S obverses have been discovered. There are presently nine obverse die varieties now known to have been used to make 1909-S Lincoln cents both with and without V.D.B. I have been endeavoring to find additional ones which there most surely are. My Powerpoint Victor slideshow project has been helpful but is no substitute for coin-in-hand inspection.
I've got some exciting threads unrelated to 1909-S pennies coming up here for veterans and newbies alike to enjoy but ask that you not post in them if you can't control your propensity for huffiness. Change the channel if you don't like what it's showing is my recommendation for you.
The silent majority is smarter than me; they ignore your posts because your posts are nearly entirely absurd. They are not waiting with baited breath for your next round of misinformation.
FACT: Your nonsense, unsubstantiated/disproven claims, and awful advice have the potential to steer the innocent in the wrong direction.
I'm not huffy at all; I'm dumbfounded at your extremely misplaced certainty. However, if you spew nonsense as fact (as is your wont), prepare to be called out on it. If you don't like that, stop posting ridiculousness.
Why do you put so much effort into resisting learning something new? I try to learn something new every day. So should you.
Not me, not PCGS, not anyone participating in this forum published the first work on identifying 1909-S obverse die varieties. It was Bert Harsche and his team of numismatists that accomplished this. And you have the gall to call me ridiculous for sharing a historical fact like this here?
This isn’t the thread for your continued discussion of other topics. Feel free to start a different thread, rather then continuing to derail this one.
Buffoonery has derailed this thread, not me.
Can't both be true
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@chattycoins said:
Hey people! What do you think of this? Thanks for hanging in there with me! What can I use to clean this coin up? Thanks again!
Try soaking this piece in vinegar (mild acetic acid) and then use a soft brush on it. Acetone isn't going to work to lighten it up. If you aren't getting results you desire with vinegar, even after repeated soakings and brushings, try using a bright dip like is used by collectors to remove tarnish on silver dollars. I use Zenith Solutions Silver and Coin Cleaner 292 for bright dipping but there are other products out there that will do a fine job of brightening your silver dime.
Acid and a brush? Are you 9?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I don’t get it. First, many told the poster that the coin was crap. That there was no value.
So, why not let the OP try what they want. They cannot hurt this coin and they may just learn something. If nothing else, let them try out a harsh cleaning and see why they don’t want to do that on a coin with any value. I remember when I used Brasso on a penny about 60 years ago, and I never tried that again.
If this were a coin anyone valued, my advice would be much different.
@Ronsanderson said:
I don’t get it. First, many told the poster that the coin was crap. That there was no value.
So, why not let the OP try what they want. They cannot hurt this coin and they may just learn something. If nothing else, let them try out a harsh cleaning and see why they don’t want to do that on a coin with any value.
You have much to learn about the forum, grasshopper...
@Ronsanderson said:
I don’t get it. First, many told the poster that the coin was crap. That there was no value.
So, why not let the OP try what they want. They cannot hurt this coin and they may just learn something. If nothing else, let them try out a harsh cleaning and see why they don’t want to do that on a coin with any value. I remember when I used Brasso on a penny about 60 years ago, and I never tried that again.
If this were a coin anyone valued, my advice would be much different.
Because the OP didn't ask how to destroy the coin further. And, most importantly, the advice to harshly clean it didn't include the suggestion that such activity could harm a better coin. When someone else stumbles across this thread, or others, and sees the advice to use a polishing wheel or something, they don't know that the advice potentially creates harm unless told that it might.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Maybe the piece has significance to the owner. All he was asking for in the OP was how could he "clean it up". Coins are not always all about "how much can I get for it?", are they?
Stay tuned for my "dirty bird" thread, coming soon to a coin forum near you.
Teaser: "Dirty bird" is in a PCGS holder and is unbelievably cool.
Maybe the piece has significance to the owner. All he was asking for in the OP was how could he "clean it up". Coins are not always all about "how much can I get for it?", are they?
Stay tuned for my "dirty bird" thread, coming soon to a coin forum near you.
Teaser: "Dirty bird" is in a PCGS holder and is unbelievably cool.
This is gotta see 👀
Newbies, take note. This post is an example of a forum member having a healthy sense of humor instead of a "let's pile on someone" so we can yuk it up by laughing at them instead of with them. This thread should be useful to you in recognizing who the pilers and groupies are, but more importantly, who they aren't.
Thank you for this post, johnny.
Dirty bird will be ready for his debut here in a few days, probably by this next weekend after his photoshoot has been completed.
Note to Mr. Feld: You might advise the numero uno in post count poster, who appears to have a groupie problem, that stirring the pot for a few yuks from those she trying to impress is way uncool and not at all helpful.
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
Maybe the piece has significance to the owner. All he was asking for in the OP was how could he "clean it up". Coins are not always all about "how much can I get for it?", are they?
Stay tuned for my "dirty bird" thread, coming soon to a coin forum near you.
Teaser: "Dirty bird" is in a PCGS holder and is unbelievably cool.
This is gotta see 👀
Newbies, take note. This post is an example of a forum member having a healthy sense of humor instead of a "let's pile on someone" so we can yuk it up by laughing at them instead of with them. This thread should be useful to you in recognizing who the pilers and groupies are, but more importantly, who they aren't.
Thank you for this post, johnny.
Dirty bird will be ready for his debut here in a few days, probably by this next weekend after his photoshoot has been completed.
Note to Mr. Feld: You might advise the numero uno in post count poster, who appears to have a groupie problem, that stirring the pot for a few yuks from those she trying to impress is way uncool and not at all helpful.
Hmmm... isn't that me?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Newbies, take note. This post is an example of a forum member having a healthy sense of humor instead of a "let's pile on someone" so we can yuk it up by laughing at them instead of with them. This thread should be useful ….
Maybe the piece has significance to the owner. All he was asking for in the OP was how could he "clean it up". Coins are not always all about "how much can I get for it?", are they?
Stay tuned for my "dirty bird" thread, coming soon to a coin forum near you.
Teaser: "Dirty bird" is in a PCGS holder and is unbelievably cool.
This is gotta see 👀
Newbies, take note. This post is an example of a forum member having a healthy sense of humor instead of a "let's pile on someone" so we can yuk it up by laughing at them instead of with them. This thread should be useful to you in recognizing who the pilers and groupies are, but more importantly, who they aren't.
Thank you for this post, johnny.
Dirty bird will be ready for his debut here in a few days, probably by this next weekend after his photoshoot has been completed.
Note to Mr. Feld: You might advise the numero uno in post count poster, who appears to have a groupie problem, that stirring the pot for a few yuks from those she trying to impress is way uncool and not at all helpful.
Hmmm... isn't that me?
You numero uno and MsMorrisine numero dos. Mr. Feld should have a word with you too about groupie behavior and pot stirring.
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
Maybe the piece has significance to the owner. All he was asking for in the OP was how could he "clean it up". Coins are not always all about "how much can I get for it?", are they?
Stay tuned for my "dirty bird" thread, coming soon to a coin forum near you.
Teaser: "Dirty bird" is in a PCGS holder and is unbelievably cool.
This is gotta see 👀
Newbies, take note. This post is an example of a forum member having a healthy sense of humor instead of a "let's pile on someone" so we can yuk it up by laughing at them instead of with them. This thread should be useful to you in recognizing who the pilers and groupies are, but more importantly, who they aren't.
Thank you for this post, johnny.
Dirty bird will be ready for his debut here in a few days, probably by this next weekend after his photoshoot has been completed.
Note to Mr. Feld: You might advise the numero uno in post count poster, who appears to have a groupie problem, that stirring the pot for a few yuks from those she trying to impress is way uncool and not at all helpful.
Hmmm... isn't that me?
You numero uno and MsMorrisine numero dos. Mr. Feld should have a word with you too about groupie behavior and pot stirring.
I feel like my contributions to this thread have been overlooked.
Newbies, take note. This post is an example of a forum member having a healthy sense of humor instead of a "let's pile on someone" so we can yuk it up by laughing at them instead of with them. This thread should be useful ….
You and IkesT work for the same company?
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
Maybe the piece has significance to the owner. All he was asking for in the OP was how could he "clean it up". Coins are not always all about "how much can I get for it?", are they?
Stay tuned for my "dirty bird" thread, coming soon to a coin forum near you.
Teaser: "Dirty bird" is in a PCGS holder and is unbelievably cool.
This is gotta see 👀
Newbies, take note. This post is an example of a forum member having a healthy sense of humor instead of a "let's pile on someone" so we can yuk it up by laughing at them instead of with them. This thread should be useful to you in recognizing who the pilers and groupies are, but more importantly, who they aren't.
Thank you for this post, johnny.
Dirty bird will be ready for his debut here in a few days, probably by this next weekend after his photoshoot has been completed.
Note to Mr. Feld: You might advise the numero uno in post count poster, who appears to have a groupie problem, that stirring the pot for a few yuks from those she trying to impress is way uncool and not at all helpful.
Maybe the piece has significance to the owner. All he was asking for in the OP was how could he "clean it up". Coins are not always all about "how much can I get for it?", are they?
Stay tuned for my "dirty bird" thread, coming soon to a coin forum near you.
Teaser: "Dirty bird" is in a PCGS holder and is unbelievably cool.
This is gotta see 👀
Newbies, take note. This post is an example of a forum member having a healthy sense of humor instead of a "let's pile on someone" so we can yuk it up by laughing at them instead of with them. This thread should be useful to you in recognizing who the pilers and groupies are, but more importantly, who they aren't.
Thank you for this post, johnny.
Dirty bird will be ready for his debut here in a few days, probably by this next weekend after his photoshoot has been completed.
Note to Mr. Feld: You might advise the numero uno in post count poster, who appears to have a groupie problem, that stirring the pot for a few yuks from those she trying to impress is way uncool and not at all helpful.
Hmmm... isn't that me?
You numero uno and MsMorrisine numero dos. Mr. Feld should have a word with you too about groupie behavior and pot stirring.
I think that's hysterical. Ikes and Morgan have posted 10x as many memes as Morrisine and myself, but we're the problem.
The only reason I even responded to you is because you objected to acetone... preferring acid and a brush.
Possible growth potential: if you don't want a response, don't initiate the conversation.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Maybe the piece has significance to the owner. All he was asking for in the OP was how could he "clean it up". Coins are not always all about "how much can I get for it?", are they?
Stay tuned for my "dirty bird" thread, coming soon to a coin forum near you.
Teaser: "Dirty bird" is in a PCGS holder and is unbelievably cool.
This is gotta see 👀
Newbies, take note. This post is an example of a forum member having a healthy sense of humor instead of a "let's pile on someone" so we can yuk it up by laughing at them instead of with them. This thread should be useful to you in recognizing who the pilers and groupies are, but more importantly, who they aren't.
Thank you for this post, johnny.
Dirty bird will be ready for his debut here in a few days, probably by this next weekend after his photoshoot has been completed.
Note to Mr. Feld: You might advise the numero uno in post count poster, who appears to have a groupie problem, that stirring the pot for a few yuks from those she trying to impress is way uncool and not at all helpful.
Hmmm... isn't that me?
You numero uno and MsMorrisine numero dos. Mr. Feld should have a word with you too about groupie behavior and pot stirring.
I feel like my contributions to this thread have been overlooked.
I agree. You might want to increase your meme output.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Maybe the piece has significance to the owner. All he was asking for in the OP was how could he "clean it up". Coins are not always all about "how much can I get for it?", are they?
Stay tuned for my "dirty bird" thread, coming soon to a coin forum near you.
Teaser: "Dirty bird" is in a PCGS holder and is unbelievably cool.
This is gotta see 👀
Newbies, take note. This post is an example of a forum member having a healthy sense of humor instead of a "let's pile on someone" so we can yuk it up by laughing at them instead of with them. This thread should be useful to you in recognizing who the pilers and groupies are, but more importantly, who they aren't.
Thank you for this post, johnny.
Dirty bird will be ready for his debut here in a few days, probably by this next weekend after his photoshoot has been completed.
Note to Mr. Feld: You might advise the numero uno in post count poster, who appears to have a groupie problem, that stirring the pot for a few yuks from those she trying to impress is way uncool and not at all helpful.
Hmmm... isn't that me?
You numero uno and MsMorrisine numero dos. Mr. Feld should have a word with you too about groupie behavior and pot stirring.
I feel like my contributions to this thread have been overlooked.
I agree. You might want to increase your meme output.
Maybe the piece has significance to the owner. All he was asking for in the OP was how could he "clean it up". Coins are not always all about "how much can I get for it?", are they?
Stay tuned for my "dirty bird" thread, coming soon to a coin forum near you.
Teaser: "Dirty bird" is in a PCGS holder and is unbelievably cool.
This is gotta see 👀
Newbies, take note. This post is an example of a forum member having a healthy sense of humor instead of a "let's pile on someone" so we can yuk it up by laughing at them instead of with them. This thread should be useful to you in recognizing who the pilers and groupies are, but more importantly, who they aren't.
Thank you for this post, johnny.
Dirty bird will be ready for his debut here in a few days, probably by this next weekend after his photoshoot has been completed.
Note to Mr. Feld: You might advise the numero uno in post count poster, who appears to have a groupie problem, that stirring the pot for a few yuks from those she trying to impress is way uncool and not at all helpful.
Maybe the piece has significance to the owner. All he was asking for in the OP was how could he "clean it up". Coins are not always all about "how much can I get for it?", are they?
Stay tuned for my "dirty bird" thread, coming soon to a coin forum near you.
Teaser: "Dirty bird" is in a PCGS holder and is unbelievably cool.
This is gotta see 👀
Newbies, take note. This post is an example of a forum member having a healthy sense of humor instead of a "let's pile on someone" so we can yuk it up by laughing at them instead of with them. This thread should be useful to you in recognizing who the pilers and groupies are, but more importantly, who they aren't.
Thank you for this post, johnny.
Dirty bird will be ready for his debut here in a few days, probably by this next weekend after his photoshoot has been completed.
Note to Mr. Feld: You might advise the numero uno in post count poster, who appears to have a groupie problem, that stirring the pot for a few yuks from those she trying to impress is way uncool and not at all helpful.
Hmmm... isn't that me?
You numero uno and MsMorrisine numero dos. Mr. Feld should have a word with you too about groupie behavior and pot stirring.
I think that's hysterical. Ikes and Morgan have posted 10x as many memes as Morrisine and myself, but we're the problem.
The only reason I even responded to you is because you objected to acetone... preferring acid and a brush.
Possible growth potential: if you don't want a response, don't initiate the conversation.
Vinegar is mild acetic acid. It's not like the OP's coin and fingers would dissolve away in it. Brush with stout bristle (not metal)...brush. Might work to lighten his coin a bit. Acetone is not going to work to lighten the OP's coin but maybe he should try acetone and report back here with the results.
Suggestion for OP: Do a poll here. Question: Should I use acetone to try and lighten the color of this silver dime?
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
Maybe the piece has significance to the owner. All he was asking for in the OP was how could he "clean it up". Coins are not always all about "how much can I get for it?", are they?
Stay tuned for my "dirty bird" thread, coming soon to a coin forum near you.
Teaser: "Dirty bird" is in a PCGS holder and is unbelievably cool.
This is gotta see 👀
Newbies, take note. This post is an example of a forum member having a healthy sense of humor instead of a "let's pile on someone" so we can yuk it up by laughing at them instead of with them. This thread should be useful to you in recognizing who the pilers and groupies are, but more importantly, who they aren't.
Thank you for this post, johnny.
Dirty bird will be ready for his debut here in a few days, probably by this next weekend after his photoshoot has been completed.
Note to Mr. Feld: You might advise the numero uno in post count poster, who appears to have a groupie problem, that stirring the pot for a few yuks from those she trying to impress is way uncool and not at all helpful.
Maybe the piece has significance to the owner. All he was asking for in the OP was how could he "clean it up". Coins are not always all about "how much can I get for it?", are they?
Stay tuned for my "dirty bird" thread, coming soon to a coin forum near you.
Teaser: "Dirty bird" is in a PCGS holder and is unbelievably cool.
This is gotta see 👀
Newbies, take note. This post is an example of a forum member having a healthy sense of humor instead of a "let's pile on someone" so we can yuk it up by laughing at them instead of with them. This thread should be useful to you in recognizing who the pilers and groupies are, but more importantly, who they aren't.
Thank you for this post, johnny.
Dirty bird will be ready for his debut here in a few days, probably by this next weekend after his photoshoot has been completed.
Note to Mr. Feld: You might advise the numero uno in post count poster, who appears to have a groupie problem, that stirring the pot for a few yuks from those she trying to impress is way uncool and not at all helpful.
Hmmm... isn't that me?
You numero uno and MsMorrisine numero dos. Mr. Feld should have a word with you too about groupie behavior and pot stirring.
I think that's hysterical. Ikes and Morgan have posted 10x as many memes as Morrisine and myself, but we're the problem.
The only reason I even responded to you is because you objected to acetone... preferring acid and a brush.
Possible growth potential: if you don't want a response, don't initiate the conversation.
Vinegar is mild acetic acid. It's not like the OP's coin and fingers would dissolve away in it. Brush with stout bristle (not metal)...brush. Might work to lighten his coin a bit. Acetone is not going to work to lighten the OP's coin but maybe he should try acetone and report back here with the results.
Suggestion for OP: Do a poll here. Question: Should I use acetone to try and lighten the color of this silver dime?
I'm a chemist. Thanks for mansplaining. Try that approach on an unc or proof and tell me how it works out for you. Or try it on a copper coin. You are not considering who might read that advice on the future. Numerous coins have been ruined with vinegar and a brush.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Maybe the piece has significance to the owner. All he was asking for in the OP was how could he "clean it up". Coins are not always all about "how much can I get for it?", are they?
Stay tuned for my "dirty bird" thread, coming soon to a coin forum near you.
Teaser: "Dirty bird" is in a PCGS holder and is unbelievably cool.
This is gotta see 👀
Newbies, take note. This post is an example of a forum member having a healthy sense of humor instead of a "let's pile on someone" so we can yuk it up by laughing at them instead of with them. This thread should be useful to you in recognizing who the pilers and groupies are, but more importantly, who they aren't.
Thank you for this post, johnny.
Dirty bird will be ready for his debut here in a few days, probably by this next weekend after his photoshoot has been completed.
Note to Mr. Feld: You might advise the numero uno in post count poster, who appears to have a groupie problem, that stirring the pot for a few yuks from those she trying to impress is way uncool and not at all helpful.
Maybe the piece has significance to the owner. All he was asking for in the OP was how could he "clean it up". Coins are not always all about "how much can I get for it?", are they?
Stay tuned for my "dirty bird" thread, coming soon to a coin forum near you.
Teaser: "Dirty bird" is in a PCGS holder and is unbelievably cool.
This is gotta see 👀
Newbies, take note. This post is an example of a forum member having a healthy sense of humor instead of a "let's pile on someone" so we can yuk it up by laughing at them instead of with them. This thread should be useful to you in recognizing who the pilers and groupies are, but more importantly, who they aren't.
Thank you for this post, johnny.
Dirty bird will be ready for his debut here in a few days, probably by this next weekend after his photoshoot has been completed.
Note to Mr. Feld: You might advise the numero uno in post count poster, who appears to have a groupie problem, that stirring the pot for a few yuks from those she trying to impress is way uncool and not at all helpful.
Hmmm... isn't that me?
You numero uno and MsMorrisine numero dos. Mr. Feld should have a word with you too about groupie behavior and pot stirring.
I think that's hysterical. Ikes and Morgan have posted 10x as many memes as Morrisine and myself, but we're the problem.
The only reason I even responded to you is because you objected to acetone... preferring acid and a brush.
Possible growth potential: if you don't want a response, don't initiate the conversation.
Vinegar is mild acetic acid. It's not like the OP's coin and fingers would dissolve away in it. Brush with stout bristle (not metal)...brush. Might work to lighten his coin a bit. Acetone is not going to work to lighten the OP's coin but maybe he should try acetone and report back here with the results.
Suggestion for OP: Do a poll here. Question: Should I use acetone to try and lighten the color of this silver dime?
I'm chemist. Thanks for mansplaining. Try that approach on an unc or proof and tell me how it works out for you. Or try it on a copper coin m You are not considering who might read that advice on the future. Numerous coins have been ruined with vinegar and a brush.
I could publish here some formulas for cleaning silver coins but won't because the chemicals used in the concoctions are dangerous to handle. You are suddenly concerned about the OP's coin being ruined by using vinegar and a non-metallic brush on it? Is the OP's dime uncirculated or proof? Is the OP's coin "a copper coin?"
I would make some baking soda and water paste, apply the paste to the coin and rub it to "chromy white" color with my thumb and fingers. The really dark areas might take additional rubbing with the paste to remove the coin's discoloration completely.
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
Maybe the piece has significance to the owner. All he was asking for in the OP was how could he "clean it up". Coins are not always all about "how much can I get for it?", are they?
Stay tuned for my "dirty bird" thread, coming soon to a coin forum near you.
Teaser: "Dirty bird" is in a PCGS holder and is unbelievably cool.
This is gotta see 👀
Newbies, take note. This post is an example of a forum member having a healthy sense of humor instead of a "let's pile on someone" so we can yuk it up by laughing at them instead of with them. This thread should be useful to you in recognizing who the pilers and groupies are, but more importantly, who they aren't.
Thank you for this post, johnny.
Dirty bird will be ready for his debut here in a few days, probably by this next weekend after his photoshoot has been completed.
Note to Mr. Feld: You might advise the numero uno in post count poster, who appears to have a groupie problem, that stirring the pot for a few yuks from those she trying to impress is way uncool and not at all helpful.
Maybe the piece has significance to the owner. All he was asking for in the OP was how could he "clean it up". Coins are not always all about "how much can I get for it?", are they?
Stay tuned for my "dirty bird" thread, coming soon to a coin forum near you.
Teaser: "Dirty bird" is in a PCGS holder and is unbelievably cool.
This is gotta see 👀
Newbies, take note. This post is an example of a forum member having a healthy sense of humor instead of a "let's pile on someone" so we can yuk it up by laughing at them instead of with them. This thread should be useful to you in recognizing who the pilers and groupies are, but more importantly, who they aren't.
Thank you for this post, johnny.
Dirty bird will be ready for his debut here in a few days, probably by this next weekend after his photoshoot has been completed.
Note to Mr. Feld: You might advise the numero uno in post count poster, who appears to have a groupie problem, that stirring the pot for a few yuks from those she trying to impress is way uncool and not at all helpful.
Hmmm... isn't that me?
You numero uno and MsMorrisine numero dos. Mr. Feld should have a word with you too about groupie behavior and pot stirring.
I think that's hysterical. Ikes and Morgan have posted 10x as many memes as Morrisine and myself, but we're the problem.
The only reason I even responded to you is because you objected to acetone... preferring acid and a brush.
Possible growth potential: if you don't want a response, don't initiate the conversation.
Vinegar is mild acetic acid. It's not like the OP's coin and fingers would dissolve away in it. Brush with stout bristle (not metal)...brush. Might work to lighten his coin a bit. Acetone is not going to work to lighten the OP's coin but maybe he should try acetone and report back here with the results.
Suggestion for OP: Do a poll here. Question: Should I use acetone to try and lighten the color of this silver dime?
I'm chemist. Thanks for mansplaining. Try that approach on an unc or proof and tell me how it works out for you. Or try it on a copper coin m You are not considering who might read that advice on the future. Numerous coins have been ruined with vinegar and a brush.
I could publish here some formulas for cleaning silver coins but won't because the chemicals used in the concoctions are dangerous to handle. You are suddenly concerned about the OP's coin being ruined by using vinegar and a non-metallic brush? Is the OP's dime uncirculated or proof? Is the OP's coin "a copper coin?"
I would make some baking soda and water paste, apply the paste to the coin and rub it to "chromy" white with my thumb and fingers. The really dark areas might take additional rubbing with the paste to remove the coin's discoloration completely.
Read more carefully. I'm worried that your Harsche cleaning methods would ruin better coins because you failed to make it clear. And now you are ruining proof Morgan dollars by telling people to ruin them with baking soda. HORRIBLE ADVICE.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Maybe the piece has significance to the owner. All he was asking for in the OP was how could he "clean it up". Coins are not always all about "how much can I get for it?", are they?
Stay tuned for my "dirty bird" thread, coming soon to a coin forum near you.
Teaser: "Dirty bird" is in a PCGS holder and is unbelievably cool.
This is gotta see 👀
Newbies, take note. This post is an example of a forum member having a healthy sense of humor instead of a "let's pile on someone" so we can yuk it up by laughing at them instead of with them. This thread should be useful to you in recognizing who the pilers and groupies are, but more importantly, who they aren't.
Thank you for this post, johnny.
Dirty bird will be ready for his debut here in a few days, probably by this next weekend after his photoshoot has been completed.
Note to Mr. Feld: You might advise the numero uno in post count poster, who appears to have a groupie problem, that stirring the pot for a few yuks from those she trying to impress is way uncool and not at all helpful.
Maybe the piece has significance to the owner. All he was asking for in the OP was how could he "clean it up". Coins are not always all about "how much can I get for it?", are they?
Stay tuned for my "dirty bird" thread, coming soon to a coin forum near you.
Teaser: "Dirty bird" is in a PCGS holder and is unbelievably cool.
This is gotta see 👀
Newbies, take note. This post is an example of a forum member having a healthy sense of humor instead of a "let's pile on someone" so we can yuk it up by laughing at them instead of with them. This thread should be useful to you in recognizing who the pilers and groupies are, but more importantly, who they aren't.
Thank you for this post, johnny.
Dirty bird will be ready for his debut here in a few days, probably by this next weekend after his photoshoot has been completed.
Note to Mr. Feld: You might advise the numero uno in post count poster, who appears to have a groupie problem, that stirring the pot for a few yuks from those she trying to impress is way uncool and not at all helpful.
Hmmm... isn't that me?
You numero uno and MsMorrisine numero dos. Mr. Feld should have a word with you too about groupie behavior and pot stirring.
I think that's hysterical. Ikes and Morgan have posted 10x as many memes as Morrisine and myself, but we're the problem.
The only reason I even responded to you is because you objected to acetone... preferring acid and a brush.
Possible growth potential: if you don't want a response, don't initiate the conversation.
Vinegar is mild acetic acid. It's not like the OP's coin and fingers would dissolve away in it. Brush with stout bristle (not metal)...brush. Might work to lighten his coin a bit. Acetone is not going to work to lighten the OP's coin but maybe he should try acetone and report back here with the results.
Suggestion for OP: Do a poll here. Question: Should I use acetone to try and lighten the color of this silver dime?
I'm chemist. Thanks for mansplaining. Try that approach on an unc or proof and tell me how it works out for you. Or try it on a copper coin m You are not considering who might read that advice on the future. Numerous coins have been ruined with vinegar and a brush.
I could publish here some formulas for cleaning silver coins but won't because the chemicals used in the concoctions are dangerous to handle. You are suddenly concerned about the OP's coin being ruined by using vinegar and a non-metallic brush? Is the OP's dime uncirculated or proof? Is the OP's coin "a copper coin?"
I would make some baking soda and water paste, apply the paste to the coin and rub it to "chromy" white with my thumb and fingers. The really dark areas might take additional rubbing with the paste to remove the coin's discoloration completely.
Read more carefully. I'm worried that your Harsche cleaning methods would ruin better coins because you failed to make it clear. And now you are ruining proof Morgan dollars by telling people to ruin them with baking soda. HORRIBLE ADVICE.
Maybe the piece has significance to the owner. All he was asking for in the OP was how could he "clean it up". Coins are not always all about "how much can I get for it?", are they?
Stay tuned for my "dirty bird" thread, coming soon to a coin forum near you.
Teaser: "Dirty bird" is in a PCGS holder and is unbelievably cool.
This is gotta see 👀
Newbies, take note. This post is an example of a forum member having a healthy sense of humor instead of a "let's pile on someone" so we can yuk it up by laughing at them instead of with them. This thread should be useful to you in recognizing who the pilers and groupies are, but more importantly, who they aren't.
Thank you for this post, johnny.
Dirty bird will be ready for his debut here in a few days, probably by this next weekend after his photoshoot has been completed.
Note to Mr. Feld: You might advise the numero uno in post count poster, who appears to have a groupie problem, that stirring the pot for a few yuks from those she trying to impress is way uncool and not at all helpful.
Maybe the piece has significance to the owner. All he was asking for in the OP was how could he "clean it up". Coins are not always all about "how much can I get for it?", are they?
Stay tuned for my "dirty bird" thread, coming soon to a coin forum near you.
Teaser: "Dirty bird" is in a PCGS holder and is unbelievably cool.
This is gotta see 👀
Newbies, take note. This post is an example of a forum member having a healthy sense of humor instead of a "let's pile on someone" so we can yuk it up by laughing at them instead of with them. This thread should be useful to you in recognizing who the pilers and groupies are, but more importantly, who they aren't.
Thank you for this post, johnny.
Dirty bird will be ready for his debut here in a few days, probably by this next weekend after his photoshoot has been completed.
Note to Mr. Feld: You might advise the numero uno in post count poster, who appears to have a groupie problem, that stirring the pot for a few yuks from those she trying to impress is way uncool and not at all helpful.
Hmmm... isn't that me?
You numero uno and MsMorrisine numero dos. Mr. Feld should have a word with you too about groupie behavior and pot stirring.
I think that's hysterical. Ikes and Morgan have posted 10x as many memes as Morrisine and myself, but we're the problem.
The only reason I even responded to you is because you objected to acetone... preferring acid and a brush.
Possible growth potential: if you don't want a response, don't initiate the conversation.
Vinegar is mild acetic acid. It's not like the OP's coin and fingers would dissolve away in it. Brush with stout bristle (not metal)...brush. Might work to lighten his coin a bit. Acetone is not going to work to lighten the OP's coin but maybe he should try acetone and report back here with the results.
Suggestion for OP: Do a poll here. Question: Should I use acetone to try and lighten the color of this silver dime?
I'm chemist. Thanks for mansplaining. Try that approach on an unc or proof and tell me how it works out for you. Or try it on a copper coin m You are not considering who might read that advice on the future. Numerous coins have been ruined with vinegar and a brush.
I could publish here some formulas for cleaning silver coins but won't because the chemicals used in the concoctions are dangerous to handle. You are suddenly concerned about the OP's coin being ruined by using vinegar and a non-metallic brush? Is the OP's dime uncirculated or proof? Is the OP's coin "a copper coin?"
I would make some baking soda and water paste, apply the paste to the coin and rub it to "chromy" white with my thumb and fingers. The really dark areas might take additional rubbing with the paste to remove the coin's discoloration completely.
Read more carefully. I'm worried that your Harsche cleaning methods would ruin better coins because you failed to make it clear. And now you are ruining proof Morgan dollars by telling people to ruin them with baking soda. HORRIBLE ADVICE.
What a silly post you've made here.
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
My eyes ain't all that bad but I really have to strain them to read what your memes are trying to say. Get some help from one of the meme pros around here is my recommendation to you.
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
My eyes ain't all that bad but I really have to strain them to read what your memes are trying to say. Get some help from one of the meme pros around here is my recommendation to you.
Bert Harsche is still relevant, ask him how to zoom, I'm sure he knows how.
My eyes ain't all that bad but I really have to strain them to read what your memes are trying to say. Get some help from one of the meme pros around here is my recommendation to you.
Bert Harsche is still relevant, ask him how to zoom, I'm sure he knows how.
I shouldn't have to use a magnifying glass on your meme. Get a more watchable size going. I'm almost certain there are other forum members who feel the same about this as I do.
Or are you talking about Mr.Harsche's images as they appear in his pamphlets as not measuring up to your standards? "Zoom" means something other than "zoom the camera"? There are closeups of the various VDB combinations of letters and dot absences or presences in Harsche. Not so much with the date and mintmark shots, however. They were probably trying to get published on a shoe-string budget so corners got cut. Cover price on a Harsche is $1 but then those were the days when $1 actually bought a little bit of something. What can a single dollar bill buy today? What a silver dime could buy in 1964?
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
My eyes ain't all that bad but I really have to strain them to read what your memes are trying to say. Get some help from one of the meme pros around here is my recommendation to you.
Bert Harsche is still relevant, ask him how to zoom, I'm sure he knows how.
I shouldn't have to use a magnifying glass on your meme. Get a more watchable size going. I'm almost certain there are other forum members who feel the same about this as I do.
There is the problem. You have a lot of certainty about many topics. That certainty is undeserved and extremely misplaced, as you demonstrate with nearly every post.
@mr1931S said:
Question for Mr. Feld: What is it that you like about jmlanzaf's silly post?
It's not "silly", it's the very reason that your advice is dangerous. I once saw a set of 3 proof Morgan dollars that had been scrubbed THE DAY BEFORE, after over 100 years left alone. The family found them in the estate and wanted them to be shiny when they took them to the coin star for opinions. Scrubbing a coin with gritty baking soda is horrible advice.
And if you want an answer from Mark, you really need to tag him with an @ in order for him to see it.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@mr1931S said:
Question for Mr. Feld: What is it that you like about jmlanzaf's silly post?
It's not "silly", it's the very reason that your advice is dangerous. I once saw a set of 3 proof Morgan dollars that had been scrubbed THE DAY BEFORE, after over 100 years left alone. The family found them in the estate and wanted them to be shiny when they took them to the coin star for opinions. Scrubbing a coin with gritty baking soda is horrible advice.
And if you want an answer from Mark, you really need to tag him with an @ in order for him to see it.
I saw his question and have no interest in answering it.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
My eyes ain't all that bad but I really have to strain them to read what your memes are trying to say. Get some help from one of the meme pros around here is my recommendation to you.
Bert Harsche is still relevant, ask him how to zoom, I'm sure he knows how.
I shouldn't have to use a magnifying glass on your meme. Get a more watchable size going. I'm almost certain there are other forum members who feel the same about this as I do.
There is the problem. You have a lot of certainty about many topics. That certainty is undeserved and extremely misplaced, as you demonstrate with nearly every post.
Ah, take some responsibility. Making stuff up to fit your flawed narrative is tiresome and wears thin on most everyone, not just me. Make your memes more watchable. You are not going to run with the big dogs until you do. I acknowledged what I see as some of Harsche's shortcomings with images now it's time for you to acknowledge yours.
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
@mr1931S said:
Question for Mr. Feld: What is it that you like about jmlanzaf's silly post?
It's not "silly", it's the very reason that your advice is dangerous. I once saw a set of 3 proof Morgan dollars that had been scrubbed THE DAY BEFORE, after over 100 years left alone. The family found them in the estate and wanted them to be shiny when they took them to the coin star for opinions. Scrubbing a coin with gritty baking soda is horrible advice.
And if you want an answer from Mark, you really need to tag him with an @ in order for him to see it.
I think it's hilarious that you are comparing what might be done to a damaged, beat up, common date Roosevelt dime (to improve it's appearance) with what a challenged reader here might do with a proof Morgan dollar. You have made an unbelievably silly post. Why can't you admit it instead of doubling down?
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
Comments
Buffoonery has derailed this thread, not me.
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
Try soaking this piece in vinegar (mild acetic acid) and then use a soft brush on it. Acetone isn't going to work to lighten it up. If you aren't getting results you desire with vinegar, even after repeated soakings and brushings, try using a bright dip like is used by collectors to remove tarnish on silver dollars. I use Zenith Solutions Silver and Coin Cleaner 292 for bright dipping but there are other products out there that will do a fine job of brightening your silver dime.
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
all of that would be a harsche cleaning
none of that should be tried
don't listen to it
just leave the coin alone
Can't both be true
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Acid and a brush? Are you 9?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I don’t get it. First, many told the poster that the coin was crap. That there was no value.
So, why not let the OP try what they want. They cannot hurt this coin and they may just learn something. If nothing else, let them try out a harsh cleaning and see why they don’t want to do that on a coin with any value. I remember when I used Brasso on a penny about 60 years ago, and I never tried that again.
If this were a coin anyone valued, my advice would be much different.
You have much to learn about the forum, grasshopper...
@Ronsanderson 😂😂😂 A harsh cleaning? This may be the funniest comment yet on this thread!
Because the OP didn't ask how to destroy the coin further. And, most importantly, the advice to harshly clean it didn't include the suggestion that such activity could harm a better coin. When someone else stumbles across this thread, or others, and sees the advice to use a polishing wheel or something, they don't know that the advice potentially creates harm unless told that it might.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
This is gotta see 👀
Newbies, take note. This post is an example of a forum member having a healthy sense of humor instead of a "let's pile on someone" so we can yuk it up by laughing at them instead of with them. This thread should be useful to you in recognizing who the pilers and groupies are, but more importantly, who they aren't.
Thank you for this post, johnny.
Dirty bird will be ready for his debut here in a few days, probably by this next weekend after his photoshoot has been completed.
Note to Mr. Feld: You might advise the numero uno in post count poster, who appears to have a groupie problem, that stirring the pot for a few yuks from those she trying to impress is way uncool and not at all helpful.
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
Hmmm... isn't that me?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Your advice to beginners is terrible. Johnny jumped on the top of that pile of yuks and spiked his mouse.
Guiseppe, in HR, said that the you creep out the recruits when you call them newbies and asked you to stop.
Mark has a posse now, his wife made him shed the groupies when he turned fifty.
You numero uno and MsMorrisine numero dos. Mr. Feld should have a word with you too about groupie behavior and pot stirring.
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
The roadies are rambunctious too.
I feel like my contributions to this thread have been overlooked.
You and IkesT work for the same company?
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
Hmmm... isn't that me?> @mr1931S said:
I think that's hysterical. Ikes and Morgan have posted 10x as many memes as Morrisine and myself, but we're the problem.
The only reason I even responded to you is because you objected to acetone... preferring acid and a brush.
Possible growth potential: if you don't want a response, don't initiate the conversation.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I agree. You might want to increase your meme output.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Deleted
Vinegar is mild acetic acid. It's not like the OP's coin and fingers would dissolve away in it. Brush with stout bristle (not metal)...brush. Might work to lighten his coin a bit. Acetone is not going to work to lighten the OP's coin but maybe he should try acetone and report back here with the results.
Suggestion for OP: Do a poll here. Question: Should I use acetone to try and lighten the color of this silver dime?
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
I'm a chemist. Thanks for mansplaining. Try that approach on an unc or proof and tell me how it works out for you. Or try it on a copper coin. You are not considering who might read that advice on the future. Numerous coins have been ruined with vinegar and a brush.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I could publish here some formulas for cleaning silver coins but won't because the chemicals used in the concoctions are dangerous to handle. You are suddenly concerned about the OP's coin being ruined by using vinegar and a non-metallic brush on it? Is the OP's dime uncirculated or proof? Is the OP's coin "a copper coin?"
I would make some baking soda and water paste, apply the paste to the coin and rub it to "chromy white" color with my thumb and fingers. The really dark areas might take additional rubbing with the paste to remove the coin's discoloration completely.
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
Read more carefully. I'm worried that your Harsche cleaning methods would ruin better coins because you failed to make it clear. And now you are ruining proof Morgan dollars by telling people to ruin them with baking soda. HORRIBLE ADVICE.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
What a silly post you've made here.
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
Question for Mr. Feld: What is it that you like about jmlanzaf's silly post?
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
My eyes ain't all that bad but I really have to strain them to read what your memes are trying to say. Get some help from one of the meme pros around here is my recommendation to you.
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
Bert Harsche is still relevant, ask him how to zoom, I'm sure he knows how.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
I shouldn't have to use a magnifying glass on your meme. Get a more watchable size going. I'm almost certain there are other forum members who feel the same about this as I do.
Or are you talking about Mr.Harsche's images as they appear in his pamphlets as not measuring up to your standards? "Zoom" means something other than "zoom the camera"? There are closeups of the various VDB combinations of letters and dot absences or presences in Harsche. Not so much with the date and mintmark shots, however. They were probably trying to get published on a shoe-string budget so corners got cut. Cover price on a Harsche is $1 but then those were the days when $1 actually bought a little bit of something. What can a single dollar bill buy today? What a silver dime could buy in 1964?
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
There is the problem. You have a lot of certainty about many topics. That certainty is undeserved and extremely misplaced, as you demonstrate with nearly every post.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
Creepy.
It's not "silly", it's the very reason that your advice is dangerous. I once saw a set of 3 proof Morgan dollars that had been scrubbed THE DAY BEFORE, after over 100 years left alone. The family found them in the estate and wanted them to be shiny when they took them to the coin star for opinions. Scrubbing a coin with gritty baking soda is horrible advice.
And if you want an answer from Mark, you really need to tag him with an @ in order for him to see it.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I saw his question and have no interest in answering it.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Ah, take some responsibility. Making stuff up to fit your flawed narrative is tiresome and wears thin on most everyone, not just me. Make your memes more watchable. You are not going to run with the big dogs until you do. I acknowledged what I see as some of Harsche's shortcomings with images now it's time for you to acknowledge yours.
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
I think it's hilarious that you are comparing what might be done to a damaged, beat up, common date Roosevelt dime (to improve it's appearance) with what a challenged reader here might do with a proof Morgan dollar. You have made an unbelievably silly post. Why can't you admit it instead of doubling down?
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)