It's hard to say, but the Packers RBs weren't bad and gave them options which worked with their offense better than Barry in the I. Those teams went in different directions because of their QBs.
I honestly believe the majority of the physical stuff is for the viewing audiences. The real stuff is behind the scenes for the GMs, scouts and coaches. Interviews, personality tests, football knowledge tests, how they interact with other players, etc. Also figuring out which ones will continue to learn and grow vs the ones that have peaked.
Even seeing how these players act off the field is valuable - probably doesn't take long to see which are the mature ones you'd want on your team vs the ones that are still in the college 'party phase'.
@VikingDude said:
I honestly believe the majority of the physical stuff is for the viewing audiences. The real stuff is behind the scenes for the GMs, scouts and coaches. Interviews, personality tests, football knowledge tests, how they interact with other players, etc. Also figuring out which ones will continue to learn and grow vs the ones that have peaked.
Even seeing how these players act off the field is valuable - probably doesn't take long to see which are the mature ones you'd want on your team vs the ones that are still in the college 'party phase'.
If a linemen put up two reps on bench Id be concerned. but if my DT runs an 8 second 40 I couldnt care less. Its definitely mostly for TV to sell it and give scouts cover being like well we have these numbers.
Ill never get the purpose of the Wonderlic test. Im not drafting you to take the SATs for me. I dont care if youre good at math or analogies. Can you block, can you catch etc. Most of them just guess at most of the questions anyways.
The interviews get weird. Mendoza isnt the first player this has ever happened too but he was asked if he would be willing to get arrested so that he would slide in the draft and they could draft him. He didnt name the team but he confirmed it happened
Lotta variables in that one. What round, what position, whats the talent discrepancy etc
Baseball you take the best player because it takes so long but NFL the best are expected to play right away. If the Vikings used a first round pick on a WR because hes the best available thats a wasted pick., do it the 7th round whatever. If your Oline is trash taking a RB doesnt make sense.
I would say that with the exception of QB both approaches can be right depending on the situation. I exclude QBs because so many teams draft one out of need way to high and theyre almost always a bust
@craig44 said:
I am not too upset they released Diggs. He is facing some pretty serious allegations legally in the next month or 2.
If true, I would rather not have dirt bags on the team. even if they are very talented.
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Doesn't surprise me. What a waste of talent. He's a multi millionaire, so he doesn't care.
Not really a waste of talent, his numbers are there and like you said he is a multi. Millionaire - for now, he has gotten a lot out of his career even with his shitty attitude that pops up from time to time
@craig44 said:
I am not too upset they released Diggs. He is facing some pretty serious allegations legally in the next month or 2.
If true, I would rather not have dirt bags on the team. even if they are very talented.
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Doesn't surprise me. What a waste of talent. He's a multi millionaire, so he doesn't care.
Not really a waste of talent, his numbers are there and like you said he is a multi. Millionaire - for now, he has gotten a lot out of his career even with his shitty attitude that pops up from time to time
I consider him a waste of talent. If you think it's all about the money, then Kirk Cousins must be the greatest QB of all time.
Having had both of these guys on the team I follow, I would take Kirk over Stephon any day.
What would Diggs' numbers be if he was a "normal" football player who just showed up and did his job to the best of his ability and had a little humility?
Lastly, it seems he has quite a bit more than a shitty attitude. Seems like he's an abusive person, but I guess he has been able to buy his way out of trouble, IF he has been guilty of some of the things he has been accused of.
SO GLAD the Vikings got rid of him!
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@craig44 said:
I am not too upset they released Diggs. He is facing some pretty serious allegations legally in the next month or 2.
If true, I would rather not have dirt bags on the team. even if they are very talented.
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Doesn't surprise me. What a waste of talent. He's a multi millionaire, so he doesn't care.
Not really a waste of talent, his numbers are there and like you said he is a multi. Millionaire - for now, he has gotten a lot out of his career even with his shitty attitude that pops up from time to time
I consider him a waste of talent. If you think it's all about the money, then Kirk Cousins must be the greatest QB of all time.
Having had both of these guys on the team I follow, I would take Kirk over Stephon any day.
What would Diggs' numbers be if he was a "normal" football player who just showed up and did his job to the best of his ability and had a little humility?
Lastly, it seems he has quite a bit more than a shitty attitude. Seems like he's an abusive person, but I guess he has been able to buy his way out of trouble, IF he has been guilty of some of the things he has been accused of.
SO GLAD the Vikings got rid of him!
You mentioned the money, I was just quoting what you said
My point was he has had a productive career, definately not a waste of talent
Not saying I like the guy or think he is a nice guy I'm talking about production at the WR position and he has put up very good numbers overall, a waste of talent is a guy like Justin Blackmon or Josh Gordon type, that's all I'm saying
Dont forget they free up a bunch of cap money which probably played a role. There always comes a point where cap hits are high enough that problem players arent worth it anymore
Theres pretty much only a few things that will get you thrown out of the league or black balled. Gambling, video of beating a woman or child, criticizing the commish, or actually being in prison. Non of the leagues other than maybe the NFL really care what you do if it doesnt impact their bottom line and youre good. All that really happens is you just dont get offered massive contracts anymore
Newly hired New York Giants coach John Harbaugh is open to signing free agent wide receiver Odell Beckham Jr., which would be his second stint with his first NFL team.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
@Steven59 said:
Newly hired New York Giants coach John Harbaugh is open to signing free agent wide receiver Odell Beckham Jr., which would be his second stint with his first NFL team.
It's a head-scratcher for me on why the success rate of draft picks isn't a lot higher.
I wonder how many teams have done a true, in-depth analysis of why NFL players succeed.
These historical attributes seem to be way more important when assessing a player for the current draft then trying to project something.
Either a prospective player has these attributes of success or they don't & my guess is it's less about what their combine results in cone drills or sprints.
The NFL has basically gotten college fans and taxpayers of public schools to flip the bill for having a minor league football system via NIL dollars. Baseball franchises have to pay for their entire minor league system. NFL gets it for FREE.
There's no other place to find talent & they still whiff way too much. The Vikings haven't had an average or better draft since 2015. It's too hard to compete in the NFL if you're hitting on just 1 or 2 players per draft. The Vikings success rate has been abysmal - perhaps the worst in the league for a number of years.
I would rather take the best available player & it's a bonus if it aligns with your need on the first three rounds of the draft. Drafting for need forces you to bypass superior talent.
@estang said:
It's a head-scratcher for me on why the success rate of draft picks isn't a lot higher.
I wonder how many teams have done a true, in-depth analysis of why NFL players succeed.
These historical attributes seem to be way more important when assessing a player for the current draft then trying to project something.
Either a prospective player has these attributes of success or they don't & my guess is it's less about what their combine results in cone drills or sprints.
The NFL has basically gotten college fans and taxpayers of public schools to flip the bill for having a minor league football system via NIL dollars. Baseball franchises have to pay for their entire minor league system. NFL gets it for FREE.
There's no other place to find talent & they still whiff way too much. The Vikings haven't had an average or better draft since 2015. It's too hard to compete in the NFL if you're hitting on just 1 or 2 players per draft. The Vikings success rate has been abysmal - perhaps the worst in the league for a number of years.
I would rather take the best available player & it's a bonus if it aligns with your need on the first three rounds of the draft. Drafting for need forces you to bypass superior talent.
Just think what the Vikings draft record might be if Moss and Peterson hadn't fallen in the draft and were available when the Vikings picked.
In the last 10 drafts, the Vikings have drafted just three players, Justin Jefferson, Brian O'Neil and Dalvin Cook who have played in the pro bowl. Not including kickers no longer with the team. We were lucky to get Jefferson too! Justin is the lone "All-Pro" of the group.
Teams seem to be hung up on "measurables" and not how good of a football player you are in my opinion.
You cant measure a players heart or his football sense.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
Let’s talk measurements for a second.
Rueben Bains Jr. from Miami has been criticized for short arms and no real position in the NFL. To short for DE and short arms. Too light for DT yet some team is going to draft him in the first round. I’ll be interested to see if all the experts are correct and if this 1st round draft pick costs a GM his job.
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
@2dueces said:
Let’s talk measurements for a second.
Rueben Bains Jr. from Miami has been criticized for short arms and no real position in the NFL. To short for DE and short arms. Too light for DT yet some team is going to draft him in the first round. I’ll be interested to see if all the experts are correct and if this 1st round draft pick costs a GM his job.
Well between Ole Miss, ND, OSU, and A&M Ole Miss is the only team that gave him problems. Ill take my chances with that over a tape measure
Of course you would. Hard work and effort can overcome a significant skill gap. The issue is that these intangibles are immeasurable and there’s no way to evaluate, project, or develop “heart”.
The draft is a funny thing. You can draft 3 receivers in the first round and then the studs come out of round 5. QB’s are a different animal all together.
The difference between being covered and open between college and the nfl are night and day. Can the college QB train his eye to accept a 1/2 yard is open compared to 3 yards?
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Reading replies to my last post is why I'm not enthusiastic about Kyler Murray.
The Vikings got a screaming deal - had to sign him for a million and change.
However, does this guy have what it takes to put in the time, the hard work, the leadership skills, and makes those around him better? I haven't seen or read about it. Instead, he's left a wake of fired coaches and GMs in his wake. Let's hope maturity in these areas kicks in. This is why I wouldn't draft a guy with the wrong make-up.
I will never get over the fact that the Vikings passed on Kyle Hamilton. Now they are looking at picking another DB in the draft this year at #18... I wish they would just pick a big, giant people mover up-front that has all the intangible attributes and not get so caught up on measurables.
FWIW, I've never participated in a mock draft (don't get it), nor really study players that closely until the week before the draft and then I will watch some YTube videos of select players. Last year, I did watch QBs. Two years ago I thought Jayden Daniels & JJ McCarthy were my two favorites and Drake Maye was good. I digress...
@estang said:
Reading replies to my last post is why I'm not enthusiastic about Kyler Murray.
The Vikings got a screaming deal - had to sign him for a million and change.
However, does this guy have what it takes to put in the time, the hard work, the leadership skills, and makes those around him better? I haven't seen or read about it. Instead, he's left a wake of fired coaches and GMs in his wake. Let's hope maturity in these areas kicks in. This is why I wouldn't draft a guy with the wrong make-up.
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Agree with everything you said and would like to add that once "running" quarterbacks start getting leg/foot injuries, they are usually done. Somehow we are right up to the cap, so I don't see us resigning Murray if he has a good season.
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I will never get over the fact that the Vikings passed on Kyle Hamilton. Now they are looking at picking another DB in the draft this year at #18... I wish they would just pick a big, giant people mover up-front that has all the intangible attributes and not get so caught up on measurables.
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We're REALLY on the same page here! I saw 2 or 3 draft magazines say Hamilton was the best "football player" in the entire draft. He wasn't going to go real high because Safeties are not considered worth it. Then we end up passing on him, making a trade and picking a safety with our first choice! I do understand the were trying to get 2 defensive backs that year, but that didn't work out too well. We ended up with NOTHING!
This year, I would like to see a great pass blocking offensive lineman or a stud defensive tackle who can rush the QB. It looks like they are converting a guard/tackle back-up into our new Center.
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FWIW, I've never participated in a mock draft (don't get it), nor really study players that closely until the week before the draft and then I will watch some YTube videos of select players. Last year, I did watch QBs. Two years ago I thought Jayden Daniels & JJ McCarthy were my two favorites and Drake Maye was good. I digress...
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It's too early to give up on McCarthy!
GO VIKINGS!
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
Comments
Myles Garrett was faster than linebackers and cornerbacks
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/17gZpY2Q6v/
It's hard to say, but the Packers RBs weren't bad and gave them options which worked with their offense better than Barry in the I. Those teams went in different directions because of their QBs.
Sonny Styles ran a 4.46 & had a 43.5 vertical @ 244 pounds
welcome to Jets purgatory
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1G7HudEouu/
I honestly believe the majority of the physical stuff is for the viewing audiences. The real stuff is behind the scenes for the GMs, scouts and coaches. Interviews, personality tests, football knowledge tests, how they interact with other players, etc. Also figuring out which ones will continue to learn and grow vs the ones that have peaked.
Even seeing how these players act off the field is valuable - probably doesn't take long to see which are the mature ones you'd want on your team vs the ones that are still in the college 'party phase'.
If a linemen put up two reps on bench Id be concerned. but if my DT runs an 8 second 40 I couldnt care less. Its definitely mostly for TV to sell it and give scouts cover being like well we have these numbers.
Ill never get the purpose of the Wonderlic test. Im not drafting you to take the SATs for me. I dont care if youre good at math or analogies. Can you block, can you catch etc. Most of them just guess at most of the questions anyways.
The interviews get weird. Mendoza isnt the first player this has ever happened too but he was asked if he would be willing to get arrested so that he would slide in the draft and they could draft him. He didnt name the team but he confirmed it happened
Fire AJ Preller
Aaron Glenn fell asleep watching the drills.
Lance Zierlein has 4 Buckeyes being drafted in the first 11 picks.....
.....and OSU didn't sniff a natty
Got me thinking about which schools had the most draft picks recently
Georgia and Alabama still lead the charge
Draft for need or best player available? I think it depends on the situation but I'm definitely a 'draft for need' guy
Best player for me. Money is money. Get the best available and trade them.
I> @VikingDude said:
I don't se many teams drafting the best player available. More like best player available at our position of greatest need.
I'd always go with need, the best player available is never a sure thing to be the best player available
Lotta variables in that one. What round, what position, whats the talent discrepancy etc
Baseball you take the best player because it takes so long but NFL the best are expected to play right away. If the Vikings used a first round pick on a WR because hes the best available thats a wasted pick., do it the 7th round whatever. If your Oline is trash taking a RB doesnt make sense.
I would say that with the exception of QB both approaches can be right depending on the situation. I exclude QBs because so many teams draft one out of need way to high and theyre almost always a bust
Fire AJ Preller
Well the Patriots have released Stefon Diggs
I hope they have a plan, unless they are going with Mac Hollins as Mayes #1 since Maye loves the guy so much lol
I am not too upset they released Diggs. He is facing some pretty serious allegations legally in the next month or 2.
If true, I would rather not have dirt bags on the team. even if they are very talented.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Regardless his production tailed off but he was still our best receiver
Like I said I just hope they have a sound plan going forward
Mac Hollins isn't a number 1 regardless if Maye thinks he is
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Doesn't surprise me. What a waste of talent. He's a multi millionaire, so he doesn't care.
Not really a waste of talent, his numbers are there and like you said he is a multi. Millionaire - for now, he has gotten a lot out of his career even with his shitty attitude that pops up from time to time
I consider him a waste of talent. If you think it's all about the money, then Kirk Cousins must be the greatest QB of all time.
Having had both of these guys on the team I follow, I would take Kirk over Stephon any day.
What would Diggs' numbers be if he was a "normal" football player who just showed up and did his job to the best of his ability and had a little humility?
Lastly, it seems he has quite a bit more than a shitty attitude. Seems like he's an abusive person, but I guess he has been able to buy his way out of trouble, IF he has been guilty of some of the things he has been accused of.
SO GLAD the Vikings got rid of him!
You mentioned the money, I was just quoting what you said
My point was he has had a productive career, definately not a waste of talent
Not saying I like the guy or think he is a nice guy I'm talking about production at the WR position and he has put up very good numbers overall, a waste of talent is a guy like Justin Blackmon or Josh Gordon type, that's all I'm saying
Dont forget they free up a bunch of cap money which probably played a role. There always comes a point where cap hits are high enough that problem players arent worth it anymore
Fire AJ Preller
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1AuJAFrfX4/
hey ya Galaxy 🔭🚀🪐...
I don't do FB...
Do you hang out over on The Insta...???
My homepage...
Let's click on the ellipsis...
I'm trying to get my Homeboy from over on the Bubble hooked up on The Insta...
whenever they talk about "short arms" vs "long arms" I picture a T-rex
Or Moss going over the middle.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
So who takes a chance and signs him or Diggs?
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
If Hill is healthy someone will sign him, Diggs has some legal trouble he needs to get sorted
I think they both play this season if healthy and out of jail
Theres pretty much only a few things that will get you thrown out of the league or black balled. Gambling, video of beating a woman or child, criticizing the commish, or actually being in prison. Non of the leagues other than maybe the NFL really care what you do if it doesnt impact their bottom line and youre good. All that really happens is you just dont get offered massive contracts anymore
Fire AJ Preller
Newly hired New York Giants coach John Harbaugh is open to signing free agent wide receiver Odell Beckham Jr., which would be his second stint with his first NFL team.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
He apparently needs the money
It's a head-scratcher for me on why the success rate of draft picks isn't a lot higher.
I wonder how many teams have done a true, in-depth analysis of why NFL players succeed.
These historical attributes seem to be way more important when assessing a player for the current draft then trying to project something.
Either a prospective player has these attributes of success or they don't & my guess is it's less about what their combine results in cone drills or sprints.
The NFL has basically gotten college fans and taxpayers of public schools to flip the bill for having a minor league football system via NIL dollars. Baseball franchises have to pay for their entire minor league system. NFL gets it for FREE.
There's no other place to find talent & they still whiff way too much. The Vikings haven't had an average or better draft since 2015. It's too hard to compete in the NFL if you're hitting on just 1 or 2 players per draft. The Vikings success rate has been abysmal - perhaps the worst in the league for a number of years.
I would rather take the best available player & it's a bonus if it aligns with your need on the first three rounds of the draft. Drafting for need forces you to bypass superior talent.
Erik
Just think what the Vikings draft record might be if Moss and Peterson hadn't fallen in the draft and were available when the Vikings picked.
In the last 10 drafts, the Vikings have drafted just three players, Justin Jefferson, Brian O'Neil and Dalvin Cook who have played in the pro bowl. Not including kickers no longer with the team. We were lucky to get Jefferson too! Justin is the lone "All-Pro" of the group.
Teams seem to be hung up on "measurables" and not how good of a football player you are in my opinion.
You cant measure a players heart or his football sense.
You can. it just kills the player.
no wonder those guys never get drafted!
Let’s talk measurements for a second.
Rueben Bains Jr. from Miami has been criticized for short arms and no real position in the NFL. To short for DE and short arms. Too light for DT yet some team is going to draft him in the first round. I’ll be interested to see if all the experts are correct and if this 1st round draft pick costs a GM his job.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Well between Ole Miss, ND, OSU, and A&M Ole Miss is the only team that gave him problems. Ill take my chances with that over a tape measure
Fire AJ Preller
Agreed. I'll take a guy with heart and a chip on his shoulder any day.
Of course you would. Hard work and effort can overcome a significant skill gap. The issue is that these intangibles are immeasurable and there’s no way to evaluate, project, or develop “heart”.
The draft is a funny thing. You can draft 3 receivers in the first round and then the studs come out of round 5. QB’s are a different animal all together.
The difference between being covered and open between college and the nfl are night and day. Can the college QB train his eye to accept a 1/2 yard is open compared to 3 yards?
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Reading replies to my last post is why I'm not enthusiastic about Kyler Murray.
The Vikings got a screaming deal - had to sign him for a million and change.
However, does this guy have what it takes to put in the time, the hard work, the leadership skills, and makes those around him better? I haven't seen or read about it. Instead, he's left a wake of fired coaches and GMs in his wake. Let's hope maturity in these areas kicks in. This is why I wouldn't draft a guy with the wrong make-up.
I will never get over the fact that the Vikings passed on Kyle Hamilton. Now they are looking at picking another DB in the draft this year at #18... I wish they would just pick a big, giant people mover up-front that has all the intangible attributes and not get so caught up on measurables.
FWIW, I've never participated in a mock draft (don't get it), nor really study players that closely until the week before the draft and then I will watch some YTube videos of select players. Last year, I did watch QBs. Two years ago I thought Jayden Daniels & JJ McCarthy were my two favorites and Drake Maye was good. I digress...
Erik
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Agree with everything you said and would like to add that once "running" quarterbacks start getting leg/foot injuries, they are usually done. Somehow we are right up to the cap, so I don't see us resigning Murray if he has a good season.
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We're REALLY on the same page here! I saw 2 or 3 draft magazines say Hamilton was the best "football player" in the entire draft. He wasn't going to go real high because Safeties are not considered worth it. Then we end up passing on him, making a trade and picking a safety with our first choice! I do understand the were trying to get 2 defensive backs that year, but that didn't work out too well. We ended up with NOTHING!
This year, I would like to see a great pass blocking offensive lineman or a stud defensive tackle who can rush the QB. It looks like they are converting a guard/tackle back-up into our new Center.
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It's too early to give up on McCarthy!
GO VIKINGS!