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The 1913 Type 1 Buffalo Nickels really did have to go.

BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,705 ✭✭✭✭✭

As much as I really like them, the Type 1 Buffs had problems that would terminate them.

"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon

Comments

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,705 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 25, 2026 7:17AM

    Type 1 Buffs were better suited to be coined as medals, not circulating coins. The beautiful roughhewn fields played havoc with dies, wearing them prematurely and causing problems with strike quality and small die cracks everywhere.

    But the worst thing that occurred was the premature wearing of "Cents" on the reverse.

    In 1913 there were still employees that were around, including management that remembered the 1883 fiasco brought about by not including that word "Cents" on the reverse of the V Nickel.

    Unscrupulous persons gold plated the nickels and passed them off as five-dollar gold pieces.

    The black eye the Mint got reverberated for years.

    It became inevitable that a change had to be made, so Chief Engraver Charles Barber (who never was a fan of the new nickel) got to work on the Type II modification. The words FIVE CENTS were put in an exergue to stop the premature wear, and the fields were made smooth for die life,

    The rest is history that we can see, but it's still nice to know why things happened.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • World67World67 Posts: 13,088 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Zero people at the mint thought someone was going to gold plate a worn buffalo nickel and pass it off as a half eagle.

  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 14,187 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’ve heard that happening with the Liberty nickels, gold plating them and passing them off as $5 gold coins but never the buffalo nickels until now. Hmmm

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • gonzergonzer Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 25, 2026 2:37AM

    Unscrupulous persons gold plated the nickels and passes them off as five-dollar gold pieces.

    @crazyhounddog said:

    I’ve heard that happening with the Liberty nickels, gold plating them and passing them off as $5 gold coins but never the buffalo nickels until now. Hmmm

    I'm sure he is referring to the Liberty nickel.

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,705 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The point is not that a Buff would be gold plated, the fact is that the denomination was wearing away way too fast. It upset some of the older employees who remembered the Gold thing.

    That's what prompted the quick fix on the Buff.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • World67World67 Posts: 13,088 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BuffaloIronTail said:
    The point is not that a Buff would be gold plated, the fact is that the denomination was wearing away way too fast. It upset some of the older employees who remembered the Gold thing.

    That's what prompted the quick fix on the Buff.

    Pete

    Sorry, this probably comes across as argumentative. But, where are you getting this story? I don't believe anyone at the mint was thinking this in 1913. The buffalo nickel, like most of the other circulating coin design changes that Barber didn't like, got their hubs changed to better facilitate coinage production needs.

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,705 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 25, 2026 9:16AM

    @Morgan White said:

    @BuffaloIronTail said:
    The point is not that a Buff would be gold plated, the fact is that the denomination was wearing away way too fast. It upset some of the older employees who remembered the Gold thing.

    That's what prompted the quick fix on the Buff.

    Pete

    Sorry, this probably comes across as argumentative. But, where are you getting this story? I don't believe anyone at the mint was thinking this in 1913. The buffalo nickel, like most of the other circulating coin design changes that Barber didn't like, got their hubs changed to better facilitate coinage production needs.

    The "story" came from David Langes book on Buffalo Nickels, Third Edition, page 17:

    **"While the design was distinctive enough to preclude any doubt as to the coin's face value, the Mint was overly sensitive on this point, remembering the fiasco of 1883. The Liberty Head Nickel, introduced that year, had featured a large Roman numeral V as its sole indication of value. Capitalizing on the nickel's similarity in size to the gold half eagle, a few opportunists plated these coins and passed them as five-dollar pieces before the design became familiar. Addition of the word CENTS to subsequent issues of this type solved the problem, but the lesson learned from that experience persisted in the collective memory of Mint officers, and a solution was sought which would prevent a recurrence." **

    They were thinking it.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • World67World67 Posts: 13,088 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BuffaloIronTail said:

    @Morgan White said:

    @BuffaloIronTail said:
    The point is not that a Buff would be gold plated, the fact is that the denomination was wearing away way too fast. It upset some of the older employees who remembered the Gold thing.

    That's what prompted the quick fix on the Buff.

    Pete

    Sorry, this probably comes across as argumentative. But, where are you getting this story? I don't believe anyone at the mint was thinking this in 1913. The buffalo nickel, like most of the other circulating coin design changes that Barber didn't like, got their hubs changed to better facilitate coinage production needs.

    The "story" came from David Langes book on Buffalo Nickels, Third Edition, page 17:

    **"While the design was distinctive enough to preclude any doubt as to the coin's face value, the Mint was overly sensitive on this point, remembering the fiasco of 1883. The Liberty Head Nickel, introduced that year, had featured a large Roman numeral V as its sole indication of value. Capitalizing on the nickel's similarity in size to the gold half eagle, a few opportunists plated these coins and passed them as five-dollar pieces before the design became familiar. Addition of the word CENTS to subsequent issues of this type solved the problem, but the lesson learned from that experience persisted in the collective memory of Mint officers, and a solution was sought which would prevent a recurrence." **

    They were thinking it.

    Pete

    Sounds like Lange made that up. At least I know where it came from. One thing to keep in mind is that the "experts" make stuff up all the time. Doug Winter is an expert on southern gold and still says stuff about the poor quality of the 61-d dollars like: "The rebels lack of minting expertise", as if when Georgia seceded they replaced the Dahlonega mint staff with "rebels". Complete nonsense just like Lange's story.

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,955 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I prefer the Type 1 original design reverse over the Type 2. Much more artistic.

    The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
    Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)

  • olympicsosolympicsos Posts: 974 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 25, 2026 1:22PM

    If silver prices weren't high, I would suggest the mint make 5 oz high relief silver versions of them dated 1913.

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,586 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Show me a nickel coin that could possibly wear down over a period of 6 months to a year. Ain’t gonna happen

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,955 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BuffaloIronTail said:
    The point is not that a Buff would be gold plated, the fact is that the denomination was wearing away way too fast. It upset some of the older employees who remembered the Gold thing.

    That's what prompted the quick fix on the Buff.

    Pete

    Charles Barber was kind of a stinker. Reminder to you all that Barber had his hand in the V.D.B. fiasco with 1909 Lincoln pennies a few years earlier.

    The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
    Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,705 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is what would have happened to following year Buffs if the Mint did nothing. Mint officials saw the beginning of the problem during the first year's coinage and chose to remedy it even before 1913 ended.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 5,443 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ok, time to show one or two. Here are mine, one Matte Proof, the other Mint State:

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996

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