This is a new one for me - a FAKE COPY? (failed to grab pics)
TallahasseeCoinClub
Posts: 271 ✭✭✭
It was an online auction site but unfortunately, I was not savvy enough to do a screen grab.
The seller offered what appeared to be a genuine, common late-date large cent, corroded and ugly - something we have all seen before at such venues, and probably worth around three bucks. But what was weird was, someone had stamped "COPY" on the reverse of this genuine coin. As a result of the notoriety (I guess?) and the seller substantially pushing that "IT'S A COPY FOLKS!", it went for $30!
Has anyone else come across this kind of ironic fakery?
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And follow-up comment.... surely it cannot be illegal to counterstamp a genuine coin with the word "COPY", right?
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Oh brother.
Thanks for texting us about it.
Are you savvy enough to provide a link?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
are you savvy enough to maybe reach out to others, to try to assist or teach them???
instead of trying to belittle.
Did I miss your tutoring lesson on a link in your post?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I don't feel belittled at all because I should have at least mentioned the auction site. It was whatnot.
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What is whatnot?
NO you missed it in the quote of me you posted........"to try to assist or teach them???"
Could it have been a Gallery Mint product? They generally don’t come “corroded and ugly,” but reason that the OP could be hyperbole.
Live auction site. Very cool with the kids
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It's quite possible that the coin was fake and someone, therefore, marked it as a "copy".
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
If only there was some sort of visual representation that we could reference.
How about this?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Haven't seen that $50 buffalo with the 4 nines in it in a while. That has the word copy on it as well
I certainly made a mistake in that being so focused on the coin as it was being presented, I didn't even think to screenshot or do anything like that.
To my eye, it appeared to be genuine and not a Gallery Mint or modern China fake. These I am VERY familiar with, having a sizable collection for reference. That being said, as someone alluded, it could have been a copy that was artificially worn and altered to the point that was unrecognizable as being a copy -- except for COPY being actually counterstamped onto it.
My concern is, would it be possible to inflate the appeal and value of very low cost genuine coins (i.e. corroded/crappy large cents) by stamping COPY on them and making genuine coins look like fakes -- an ironic twist on the current issue of making fakes look genuine. This would only be financially useful in front of an audience that, for some reason, finds COPY coins appealing.
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I fail to see the problem in (allegedly) increasing the value of the coins by counterstamping them with anything, including copy. Are you opposed to modern hobo nickels also?
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Would be one of the fastest growing selling sites … actually one of the fastest growing sites by downloads period
Tremendous popularity
Well... you basically repeated my query. I want to know opinions on whether it is a "problem" to stamp genuine coins -- an alteration -- in such a way as to increase their value.
I mean, whizzing a genuine coin is also an alteration, for example, but I am specifically querying about a "COPY" counterstamp.
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Coincidentally, I now see another story here about counterstamping "S" on a genuine coin to presumably increase its value:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1121175/this-has-to-be-bad-for-our-hobby#latesthttps://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1121175/this-has-to-be-bad-for-our-hobby#latest
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I did not repeat your query. I addressed it and offered a rhetorical question to probe further. Hobo nickel alterations are done to increase value. Stamping coins occurs all the time. There are thousands of Lincoln cents with Kennedy portraits stamped on them or pipes. People were selling Lincoln cents with State outlines stamped on them. I have no problem with stamping coins. If someone wants to pay more for the word "copy" stamped on it, I have no problem with that.
I assume you don't like Dan Carr's work at the Moonlight Mint.
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I think this one is a crack pipe.
I wonder if someone could submit the coin counter stamped with copy on it and get it in a slab that says “GENUINE”. That would be a good conversation piece.
Mr_Spud
Or bubbles. Lol
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Did you mean original Hobo nickels, or modern ones? I believe originals were not made to increase their value but rather to pass idle time (and of course, they are carved and not counterstamped).
As to Dan Carr's various productions, your assumption on my opinion is not correct at all.
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I was going to ask the same thing; it is a logical assumption to consider.
Hobos bartered those nickels, there’s no artistic ideal here.
Modern. Someone carves a coin to increase value. Someone stamps a coin to increase value. So what?
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I didn't think it was, which is why i raised it. But don't you think it is cognitively elastic to worry about someone negatively affecting the hobby by stamping the word copy on a coin and not worrying about someone creating fantasy coins by overstriking the entire coin with a new design?
Do you think it is more likely someone would grossly overpay for a counterstamped "copy" or a coin they think is a rare pattern?
On the front page of the forum, we have one person worried about "S" counterstamps and another worried about "Copy" counterstamps, but no one is worried about 1964-D Peace Dollars or 1918 Peace Dollars. We love those.
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I can't imagine any scenario where adding a COPY stamp can reliably generate an increase in value. This is mainly because the vast majority of collectors have no interest in purchasing fakes or copies, so you've immediately slashed your demand. You might have specific circumstances where you get lucky - such as a coin club auction where you know that multiple members present have an interest in collecting and cataloguing modern copies - but as a general rule, something stamped COPY should always be worth considerably less than a genuine article. If for no other reason than the presence of the COPY stamp implies it is newer than 1973 (when putting COPY on copies prior to sale became law in the US), and therefore not a contemporary counterfeit.
As a result, I would also assume that it was stamped "COPY" because somebody at some point genuinely believed it was indeed a copy, and stamped it so they could sell it after 1973. And given that going to the effort of obtaining and using a COPY stamp is no small thing, I would also tend to assume that any coin with COPY on it is actually a post-1973 copy and that the person doing the COPY-stamping is also the person either making or importing the copies.
As for the more general question: yes, I would have a problem if there were someone out there stamping COPY onto genuine coins. It is fraudulent: they are claiming that something for sale is "X" when they know that "X" is not true. It's just as fraudulent as someone taking a fake coin and knowingly selling it as genuine, or taking a genuine but common-date coin and tooling it to make it look like it had a rare date or mintmark. I also have a problem with it from a numismatic perspective: someone doing this is taking genuine historical artifacts and consigning them forever to being treated like trash, when they don't deserve to be treated like trash.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded the DPOTD twice.
To be fair, it depends on who is making them.
That doesn't make me feel better. Lol.
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It is very possible that someone was well-intentioned and thought it was fake and therefore added "copy" to it. I recall a coin club somewhere was doing that to Henning nickels thinking it was necessary or preferable in order to keep them for educational purposes.
I am also reminded of an Ike dollar with a huge clip, and someone had used letter punches to counterstamp it with "not a real error". The problem is, it was a real error. Oops.
As @Sapyx suggested, if someone intentionally marked it COPY despite knowing it was real in order to increase it's value, that might in theory constitute an alteration for fraudulent purposes, which would be illegal.
Really, you have made so many assumptions there that a response would be meaningless. If your point is merely to indicate that an arbitrary alteration can elicit arbitrary reactions given a wide enough audience... that would be self-evident.
That is an awesome point that did not even occur to me! Thanks for bringing that up!
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