Question About A Seller
Would you buy from a seller who has this statement in his ad?
"$4950 each shipped USPS small flat rate box. Any extras on you. My responsibility ends after dropping at the PO and having tracking scanned at drop off."
So he has YOUR money and package goes missing. Would he file a claim and get your money back? Dunno and I won't ask. Seems like best bet would be to ask for registered mail and pay extra. Still you're adding 1% to your cost right out of the gate.
The USPS isn't going to insure it for you so in a casual transaction like this what responsibility does the seller have? He took your money and promised to provide you with a product.
Comments
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@BAJJERFAN said:
Would you buy from a seller who has this statement in his ad?"$4950 each shipped USPS small flat rate box. Any extras on you. My responsibility ends after dropping at the PO and having tracking scanned at drop off."
So he has YOUR money and package goes missing. Would he file a claim and get your money back? Dunno and I won't ask. Seems like best bet would be to ask for registered mail and pay extra. Still you're adding 1% to your cost right out of the gate.
The USPS isn't going to insure it for you so in a casual transaction like this what responsibility does the seller have? He took your money and promised to provide you with a product.
If it were ebay, I'd do it in a minute. Lots of people try to had off buyer problems with those statements, including a notorious forum member, but they are meaningless on ebay. Ebay decides when the seller's responsibility ends.
If it's NOT ebay, I might still do it as long a they are taking a credit card payment because, again, the CC company will decide what the seller's responsibility is.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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If he doesn't add insurance then there would be no claim for him to file (except maybe for the $100 that I think comes with it).
I'm sure he'd like to wash his hands of it once he mails it, but I believe that he's not off the hook with eBay until it's delivered (or atleast signed for).
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Any extras on you
Would he file a claim and get your money back?
the seller does not provide insurance
i would have to ask if the seller would help wit a claim filed by me... except i woulldn't buy under these conditions
Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions1 -
@JBK said:
If he doesn't add insurance then there would be no claim for him to file (except maybe for the $100 that I think comes with it).I'm sure he'd like to wash his hands of it once he mails it, but I believe that he's not off the hook with eBay until it's delivered (or atleast signed for).
IF the seller is on eBay. The OP didn't say.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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"He took your money and promised to provide you with a product."
It sounds like the promise he's making is to drop the package with your product off at the post office after getting a tracking scan. Whether he can enforce those terms is up in the air based on the info provided, I'd think.
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Not on eBay: I have not looked, but not sure you'd find a gold bar that cheap on eBay considering what it costs to sell there.
$5K USPS insurance adds a lot of extra cost as would regular PP. Depends on how badly I wanted/needed it. I stay away from sellers with that attitude.theknowitalltroll;0 -
@MasonG said:
"He took your money and promised to provide you with a product."It sounds like the promise he's making is to drop the package with your product off at the post office after getting a tracking scan. Whether he can enforce those terms is up in the air based on the info provided, I'd think.
All the info I have. I wouldn't want to pay to find out tho. FWIW I wouldn't be making a deal with the USPS, he would.
theknowitalltroll;0 -
I would not purchase from that seller.
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@BAJJERFAN said:
@MasonG said:
"He took your money and promised to provide you with a product."It sounds like the promise he's making is to drop the package with your product off at the post office after getting a tracking scan. Whether he can enforce those terms is up in the air based on the info provided, I'd think.
All the info I have. I wouldn't want to pay to find out tho.
I wouldn't, either.
@BAJJERFAN said:
FWIW I wouldn't be making a deal with the USPS, he would.Yes, I understand. The deal he's making with the post office is that they'll scan the tracking label on its way to you and pay $15 if the package happens to be lost and a claim is filed.
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I wouldn't buy from that seller
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I had assumed it was ebay but it isn't so you don't even have that going for you. Sounds like you have no protection.
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The seller is expressing an FBO Origin policy which is his right to do, but it seems odd to not provide an insurance option if you're willing to pay for it. I have a ShipAndInsure account so I could just add the insurance and hope the seller would ship the item in a compliant manner.
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@ProofCollection said:
The seller is expressing an FBO Origin policy which is his right to do, but it seems odd to not provide an insurance option if you're willing to pay for it."$4950 each shipped USPS small flat rate box. Any extras on you."
Presumably, insurance would be an extra. If it were me, I'd ask for confirmation of that before ordering.
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@JBK said:
I had assumed it was ebay but it isn't so you don't even have that going for you. Sounds like you have no protection.You do if you pony up extra for USPS insurance or to go registered or express mail. AS IS then you're SOL.
I get the feeling that he doesn't want to go to the PO.
theknowitalltroll;0 -
@ProofCollection said:
The seller is expressing an FBO Origin policy which is his right to do, but it seems odd to not provide an insurance option if you're willing to pay for it. I have a ShipAndInsure account so I could just add the insurance and hope the seller would ship the item in a compliant manner.He says "any extras are on you".
theknowitalltroll;0 -
@BAJJERFAN said:
You do if you pony up extra for USPS insurance or to go registered or express mail. AS IS then you're SOL.If the gold bar is bullion and not some sort of historic collectable you'd need to go registered, otherwise your coverage is limited to $15.
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especially if ebay: the seller has a bad mindset and not worth doing business with
Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions3 -
Is what your saving, by completing this risky transaction really work the risk?
I wouldn't do this deal myself.Micah Langford - https://www.oldglorycoinsandcurrency.com/
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@oldglorycoins said:
Is what your saving, by completing this risky transaction really work the risk?
I wouldn't do this deal myself.The items are no longer available so a moot point. If I was in a buying mood I might as he has good feedback on another board. Thing is I'd rather have AGEs or Buffs instead of bars.
theknowitalltroll;0 -
I’ve always understood that the seller is responsible for the delivery of the item regardless of any disclaimer. Perhaps this differs from state to
state. Any lawyers want to
weigh in?And I would avoid the seller in any case.
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I can understand the cash n carry attitude because mail is often unreliable only if it was a non bullion PM item, but as has already been mentioned, you need registered mail in order to buy extra insurance for PM. Seller limits the mailing service to a flat rate 2 day mailer box. Inherently ya can't send that registered mail.
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@jmlanzaf said:
@BAJJERFAN said:
Would you buy from a seller who has this statement in his ad?"$4950 each shipped USPS small flat rate box. Any extras on you. My responsibility ends after dropping at the PO and having tracking scanned at drop off."
So he has YOUR money and package goes missing. Would he file a claim and get your money back? Dunno and I won't ask. Seems like best bet would be to ask for registered mail and pay extra. Still you're adding 1% to your cost right out of the gate.
The USPS isn't going to insure it for you so in a casual transaction like this what responsibility does the seller have? He took your money and promised to provide you with a product.
If it were ebay, I'd do it in a minute. Lots of people try to had off buyer problems with those statements, including a notorious forum member, but they are meaningless on ebay. Ebay decides when the seller's responsibility ends.
If it's NOT ebay, I might still do it as long a they are taking a credit card payment because, again, the CC company will decide what the seller's responsibility is.
I agree with you on the eBay front because the seller's "policy" is in violation of eBay rules, thus they don't actually apply. I disagree with you if the seller is selling independently. While I may choose not to buy from someone with that policy, I don't think it's right to agree to terms a seller is free to make (unlike eBay) and then if it doesn't go your way, find a way to get out of them. Even if your credit card will get your money back, that doesn't make it right when you agreed to accept responsibility.
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@airplanenut said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@BAJJERFAN said:
Would you buy from a seller who has this statement in his ad?"$4950 each shipped USPS small flat rate box. Any extras on you. My responsibility ends after dropping at the PO and having tracking scanned at drop off."
So he has YOUR money and package goes missing. Would he file a claim and get your money back? Dunno and I won't ask. Seems like best bet would be to ask for registered mail and pay extra. Still you're adding 1% to your cost right out of the gate.
The USPS isn't going to insure it for you so in a casual transaction like this what responsibility does the seller have? He took your money and promised to provide you with a product.
If it were ebay, I'd do it in a minute. Lots of people try to had off buyer problems with those statements, including a notorious forum member, but they are meaningless on ebay. Ebay decides when the seller's responsibility ends.
If it's NOT ebay, I might still do it as long a they are taking a credit card payment because, again, the CC company will decide what the seller's responsibility is.
I agree with you on the eBay front because the seller's "policy" is in violation of eBay rules, thus they don't actually apply. I disagree with you if the seller is selling independently. While I may choose not to buy from someone with that policy, I don't think it's right to agree to terms a seller is free to make (unlike eBay) and then if it doesn't go your way, find a way to get out of them. Even if your credit card will get your money back, that doesn't make it right when you agreed to accept responsibility.
Maybe true. But I think the T&C of the payment processor, agreed to by the seller, have primacy.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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Too little information. Is this a generic gold coin or a rare coin that you've been looking for for a long time? How well do you know the seller (a complete stranger or a fellow forum member or an established business)? My first inclination is to pass on the deal but if it was something that I really wanted, I'd pay extra for the registered mail.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire3 -
@Heubschgold said:
I can understand the cash n carry attitude because mail is often unreliable only if it was a non bullion PM item, but as has already been mentioned, you need registered mail in order to buy extra insurance for PM. Seller limits the mailing service to a flat rate 2 day mailer box. Inherently ya can't send that registered mail.One certainly CAN use a SFRB or flat rate envelope with registered mail. For a one ounce gold bar a Safe T Mailer in a regular letter envelope is good enough and a few $$$ cheaper.
However one can get 5 rolls of ASEs into a SFRB so at today's pricing that would be the way to go with the ASEs and RM.
theknowitalltroll;0 -
@oldabeintx said:
I’ve always understood that the seller is responsible for the delivery of the item regardless of any disclaimer. Perhaps this differs from state to
state. Any lawyers want to
weigh in?And I would avoid the seller in any case.
In the past I've pored over the UCC Uniform Commercial Code, but I could never find anything regarding casual sales that pinned any kind of legal obligation to either party. Depends on when title to the gold bar takes place. Is it upon receipt by the buyer or when the seller turns it over to the carrier?
theknowitalltroll;0 -
@PerryHall said:
Too little information. Is this a generic gold coin or a rare coin that you've been looking for for a long time? How well do you know the seller (a complete stranger or a fellow forum member or an established business)? My first inclination is to pass on the deal but if it was something that I really wanted, I'd pay extra for the registered mail.I'm not a buyer of PMs currently. I don't know the seller personally, but on the forum where it was listed he has over 500 perfect feedback comments. If I wanted it I'd pay and and pay the extra cost of RM. IMO it's HIS gold until I get so he has some responsibility to look out after his interests.
theknowitalltroll;0 -
No.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain0 -
@BAJJERFAN said:
In the past I've pored over the UCC Uniform Commercial Code, but I could never find anything regarding casual sales that pinned any kind of legal obligation to either party. Depends on when title to the gold bar takes place. Is it upon receipt by the buyer or when the seller turns it over to the carrier?Many years ago on an eBay sellers message board (private message board, not on eBay) , this topic was discussed. This was before eBay got themselves involved in the transaction the way they do today and it was possible for sellers to require buyers to pay for insurance if they wanted to be protected against a loss. A poster who claimed to be a lawyer familiar with the subject said that two people could agree to whatever option (Is it upon receipt by the buyer or when the seller turns it over to the carrier?) they wanted to regarding title transfer. There was not One Right Way to do it, only a requirement that both parties agreed to the terms.
Of course, factoring in third and fourth parties (eBay/credit cards/etc.) complicates the issue anymore.
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Probably “No” in answer to the question you posed in your opening post:
“Would you buy from a seller who has this statement in his ad?”Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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@MasonG said:
@BAJJERFAN said:
In the past I've pored over the UCC Uniform Commercial Code, but I could never find anything regarding casual sales that pinned any kind of legal obligation to either party. Depends on when title to the gold bar takes place. Is it upon receipt by the buyer or when the seller turns it over to the carrier?Many years ago on an eBay sellers message board (private message board, not on eBay) , this topic was discussed. This was before eBay got themselves involved in the transaction the way they do today and it was possible for sellers to require buyers to pay for insurance if they wanted to be protected against a loss. A poster who claimed to be a lawyer familiar with the subject said that two people could agree to whatever option (Is it upon receipt by the buyer or when the seller turns it over to the carrier?) they wanted to regarding title transfer. There was not One Right Way to do it, only a requirement that both parties agreed to the terms.
Of course, factoring in third and fourth parties (eBay/credit cards/etc.) complicates the issue anymore.
It wouldn't be very smart IMO to accept those terms and agree to maybe eat a $5K loss. RM would be cheaper than paying a 3% fee for PP and/or CC protection.
Will PP or a CC company even cover a lost package or is that onus solely on the carrier?
theknowitalltroll;0 -
To the OP's question... Would I buy from this seller: probably not. For a $50 coin, maybe... but for a $5k coin? No... as in he!! No... there's too much potential for the deal to go bad and even with dealing with ebay or a CC company to get your money back, there's the added hassle. With scammers so prevalent everywhere, I choose to go with dealers I've already done business with and worked through issues with in the past for coins in that $$ range... or face to face at a major show...
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@BAJJERFAN said:
@oldglorycoins said:
Is what your saving, by completing this risky transaction really work the risk?
I wouldn't do this deal myself.The items are no longer available so a moot point. If I was in a buying mood I might as he has good feedback on another board. Thing is I'd rather have AGEs or Buffs instead of bars.
You are fortunate, I would never consider dealing with that vendor in the future. All you get is a lot of risk.
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@BAJJERFAN said:
@oldabeintx said:
I’ve always understood that the seller is responsible for the delivery of the item regardless of any disclaimer. Perhaps this differs from state to
state. Any lawyers want to
weigh in?And I would avoid the seller in any case.
In the past I've pored over the UCC Uniform Commercial Code, but I could never find anything regarding casual sales that pinned any kind of legal obligation to either party. Depends on when title to the gold bar takes place. Is it upon receipt by the buyer or when the seller turns it over to the carrier?
That's why an intelligent seller will specify the FBO terms in their terms & conditions and smart buyers should be sure they know what the terms are. These terms become part of the contract established with the transaction. The question is, what is the default if no terms are specified? It would make sense to me that default would be FOB Origin.
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@ProofCollection said:
@BAJJERFAN said:
@oldabeintx said:
I’ve always understood that the seller is responsible for the delivery of the item regardless of any disclaimer. Perhaps this differs from state to
state. Any lawyers want to
weigh in?And I would avoid the seller in any case.
In the past I've pored over the UCC Uniform Commercial Code, but I could never find anything regarding casual sales that pinned any kind of legal obligation to either party. Depends on when title to the gold bar takes place. Is it upon receipt by the buyer or when the seller turns it over to the carrier?
That's why an intelligent seller will specify the FBO terms in their terms & conditions and smart buyers should be sure they know what the terms are. These terms become part of the contract established with the transaction. The question is, what is the default if no terms are specified? It would make sense to me that default would be FOB Origin.
That's also why credit cards are important as a means of payment: they impose protections on the buyer that supersede arbitrary terms by the seller. I insist on CC payments, even if I have to pay the 3% additional fee to the seller.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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Run. If spending that amount of money would spend at a show, purchase it right there get it right there.
Investor0
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