The Not so good, the bad and the sad... closing thoughts as to latest submission
coinkat
Posts: 24,241 ✭✭✭✭✭
These are the last two coins in my most recent submission- We have a Great Britain 1707 E shilling (S-3612) and a Swedish 1751 2Mk Coronation. Both came back N92 and missed expectations. The pictures:
The opinions for both coins are that they have been cleaned. In taking a careful look at the 1707 E Shilling, the obverse does exhibit a change in medal color at the high points attributable to wear with no visible signs of hair lining resulting from cleaning or an effort to enhance the coin. There is a greyish color that seems appropriate for a GB Silver coin from this era. The reverse does exhibit a change in the medal color that may lead one to opine that the coin may have been enhanced at some point. The old saying that it is the reverse than can only hurt the grade seems to be what is likely resonating with the graders. Grading is merely an opinion at a given time and is subject to change upon further review. While I am not complaining, I do feel it is within my right to openly disagree with the grade outcome. I am posting this not just to share the outcome, but to offer my own thoughts as to the issue of cleaning. This is not without controversy with subjectivity carrying weight as to what will or will not straight grade. My grade was a coin flip between 40 and 45. It did get EF Details
I liked the Coronation 2 Mk coin. While it does not exhibit original surfaces, it still seems to fit within the range of market acceptability. There is some hair lining, however, it really could be due to handling resulting from minimal circulation. The details grade is AU. I was in the low AU range 50-53.
Hopefully this will serve as a reminder to take a careful look at coins you choose to submit. I use a more powerful glass to get the best look and develop a better appreciation for the surfaces of the coin under consideration. Use the magnification that works best for you.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Comments
I would try a second submission at NGC before condemning them to flips and even if NGC doesn't give them (both) a satisfactory grade, I might try again PCGS. That is if you have doubts about them being cleaned or not. Which you do. I've heard a few times that some coins, graded cleaned, ended up in a clean grade holder after a resubmission to one or to both companies.
myEbay
DPOTD 3
Bummer. You had the same outcome as I did with my 1564 Saxony thaler at NGC recently. XF details/cleaned. I thought it was "market acceptable". To tell you the truth, I was so busy looking for traces of mount removal on the edge (it was OK on that front), that I didn't think about the possibility of it getting spanked for an old cleaning!
I really like your Anne shilling. Perhaps it might be worth another try, or a trip Across The Street?
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
Yeah I’m surprised the shilling didn’t straight grade. As others have said I think it eventually will if you choose to remain persistent.
IMHO the first may have been cleaned or "treated" BUT went back into circulation with the high points showing possible secondary wear. The TPGs sometimes are out of depth, at least in my experience, and so although treated as the end-all may not in fact be.
Well, just Love coins, period.
The image of the Shilling is pretty good in terms of matching the in-hand appearance. While I remain committed to TPG with the subjectivity that seems to come with the process, the grade opinion is merely that- an opinion. I would rather not play the crack out game with that one. Instead, at least for now, it will be part of the collection as it is currently holdered and serve as a resource/reference as to just how subjective the issue of cleaning resonates with TPG.
I will spare everyone my eye-witness accounts of what I have seen over the years at coin shows in connection with coins that straight graded that simply fail to pass the straight face test.
The Swedish 2 Mk image does not capture the coin in a very favorable light. Some coins are just tough to image- I seem to have a knack in finding them. LOL
Edited to add- Mounting can be an issue which again calls into question the need for using magnification that develops a level of comfort.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I agree, if you want it in a TPG slab. Send them to NGC. I have limited experience, only 4 coins, and NGC straight graded 3 of the 4. They also claimed cleaned on one. Very subjective in the 5-10 secs they are looking at the coin.
As a side not, I just got back a group of 98 Mexican coins from the pre-Columbian Collection series. These were all broken out of the mint sets/capsules. They claimed one of the coins was cleaned. Unless the mint workers are cleaning the coins I don't see how this happens. Pics not the best but you get the point. Two coins from the sealed set 67 and the 100 Peso cleaned?
There are coins that are very cleaned that will never be problem free, but many are “market acceptable.” If I get any that get bagged, and I reevaluate them and decide they should grade, almost every time they grade the second time. I’ve even done it three times. Of
Of the thirty or so that I’ve done this with, only ONE came back details on the third try.
Many coins aren’t worth this hassle, but some are. There’s a lot of middling coins.
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
@johnjohn10
Take a good look at that coin... Are there signs of die polish which could have been misconstrued as signs of cleaning? Just throwing that out as a possibility
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.