@jmlanzaf said:
Anything that has no significant numismatic value is subject to melting. Period.
That could mean in theory that all non-certified (raw) coins as gold goes higher will be targeted for melting if a dealer or owner just wants the value right away rather than sell it to a collector. But the same could happen to even graded coins that once sold at premiums of 100-200% to the gold price !!
Refiners could be the buyer of last resort but the first place some go to sell.
There might not be as many gold refiners as silver...my LCS is seeking out a gold refiner for his jewelry needs that hails from Italy !
Silver is similar in its physical and chemical properties to its two vertical neighbours in group 11 of the periodic table: copper, and gold. Its 47 electrons are arranged in the configuration [Kr]4d105s1, similarly to copper ([Ar]3d104s1) and gold ([Xe]4f145d106s1); group 11 is one of the few groups in the d-block which has a completely consistent set of electron configurations.[14] This distinctive electron configuration, with a single electron in the highest occupied s subshell over a filled d subshell, accounts for many of the singular properties of metallic silver.[15]
These are hardly all the facts but it's a good start;
Congratulations, you're at the 3rd week of general chemistry. The unique property of the platinum group metals is that they are found unalloyed in nature. That is, by the way, the only reason they became "precious metals". Iron was much more useful, but could only be made useful when primitive man learned to refine metals. Gold and silver were shiny and could be picked up in stream beds.
None of that has anything to do with solar energy conversion, but at least you're trying to learn something. Or maybe trying to find a reason to justify the conceived notion you already have.
Zinc and Magnesium also have "unique" properties unrelated to solar energy.
.
Native silver is somewhat rare (compared to silver sulfides, etc).
When pieces of native silver appear in stream beds, they are usually dull gray, not "bright and shiny".
@jmlanzaf said:
Congratulations, you're at the 3rd week of general chemistry.
No need for that.
.
"Bright and shiny" meaning metallic looking.
I think there's definitely a need for some general chemistry. For example, you said "flexible" panels were good even though silver halide isn't remotely flexible. You want flexible, then you're back to organic semiconductors.
.
No, native silver in a stream bed is dull gray and does not look "bright or shiny or metallic" at all - unless is has been freshly scraped by a rock.
Glass is generally considered to be inflexible, but fiber optic cables are made of it, and they can bend.
Congratulations, you're at the 3rd week of general chemistry.
I think there's definitely a need for some general chemistry.
These types of comments won't garner you any admiration.
.
As a chemist, I don't consider metallic to mean "shiny". Malleability would be the key difference between the platinum metals and any of the metal minerals. For example, pyrite is shiny but brittle. That made it easy to make jewelry out of silver and gold in its native state but impossible to make bronze swords until they learned to refine the minerals.
You can't bend silver halide, it's a crystalline material not a glass.
Was i looking for admiration? I'm just trying to limit the disinformation.
.
The last time I held an old photograph, I could bend it quite easily.
Maybe you tried bending one that is in a glass frame ?
You seem to think that if it hasn't been demonstrated already, it is impossible. But techniques to improve solar cell efficiency and durability are being investigated all the time. There was a time when silicon-based solar cells had very low efficiency. But they were improved. I predict the same will occur with silver halide solar cells.
Silver bismuth iodide (Ag–Bi–I) absorbers have an appropriate band gap between 1.8 and 1.9 eV for solar cells and exhibit a high absorption coefficient and excellent stability under ambient conditions.
SBI crystals, being solely composed of inorganic materials, exhibit relative resistance to moisture and oxygen, suggesting their potential for excellent durability. This characteristic is particularly relevant for flexible device applications, where plastic film substrates are permeable to oxygen and moisture.
.
Also this:
.
In solar cells, a higher bandgap is generally considered better because it allows the cell to absorb a broader range of sunlight, which includes higher-energy photons (like blue light) that are more efficient for conversion into electricity.
A lower bandgap (around 1.1 eV for silicon) allows for better absorption of lower-energy photons (like red light) but results in less efficient conversion of sunlight into electricity. In summary, a higher bandgap generally leads to better efficiency in solar cell performance.
But techniques to improve solar cell efficiency and durability are being investigated all the time. There was a time when silicon-based solar cells had very low efficiency. But they were improved. I predict the same will occur with silver halide solar cells.
It would be nice if most of the silver could be removed from solar cells leaving a lot more for other use.
Solar cell efficiency is less than 25%. If this could be increased substantially it wouldn't matter if the cells required more silver. It might also be pointed out that improvement in the transmission of electricity could be hugely important and could well require more silver. Silver is a major component of most material research into room temperature superconductivity.
In other words solar could require twice as much silver per kw if it became more efficient.
Another thing about silver in solar cells is that this silver is recoverable like money in the bank. It doesn't use silver so much as it makes it work.
Most technological advancements in optics, electronics, electrical systems, and applications on surfaces to improve performance in many parameters are more likely to contain silver than any other element. More and more processes, objects, and products made by man will contain silver going forward. The question isn't aggregate demand today or tomorrow, but rather the direction of the trends.
I believe increasing silver usage is baked into the reality described by science itself. There's plenty of silver now and for the foreseeable future but it is likely to be rationed by price in ten or twenty years. That's when you want to own silver. In the meantime people are waking up to a situation where short sightedness caused vast amounts of the metal to be wasted turning it into trash like the silver foil that was sold right next to the aluminum foil in the supermarkets back in the 1960's. Nobody really tried very hard to economize when silver accounted for less than .01% of your costs with silver at $4 an ounce. A century of massive silver production is gone converted to trinkets that molder in landfills spread over the face of the earth by economies geared to greed, waste, and consumerism. Now we pay the piper and the piper accepts only silver.
Silver is similar in its physical and chemical properties to its two vertical neighbours in group 11 of the periodic table: copper, and gold. Its 47 electrons are arranged in the configuration [Kr]4d105s1, similarly to copper ([Ar]3d104s1) and gold ([Xe]4f145d106s1); group 11 is one of the few groups in the d-block which has a completely consistent set of electron configurations.[14] This distinctive electron configuration, with a single electron in the highest occupied s subshell over a filled d subshell, accounts for many of the singular properties of metallic silver.[15]
These are hardly all the facts but it's a good start;
Congratulations, you're at the 3rd week of general chemistry. The unique property of the platinum group metals is that they are found unalloyed in nature. That is, by the way, the only reason they became "precious metals". Iron was much more useful, but could only be made useful when primitive man learned to refine metals. Gold and silver were shiny and could be picked up in stream beds.
None of that has anything to do with solar energy conversion, but at least you're trying to learn something. Or maybe trying to find a reason to justify the conceived notion you already have.
Zinc and Magnesium also have "unique" properties unrelated to solar energy.
.
Native silver is somewhat rare (compared to silver sulfides, etc).
When pieces of native silver appear in stream beds, they are usually dull gray, not "bright and shiny".
@jmlanzaf said:
Congratulations, you're at the 3rd week of general chemistry.
No need for that.
.
"Bright and shiny" meaning metallic looking.
I think there's definitely a need for some general chemistry. For example, you said "flexible" panels were good even though silver halide isn't remotely flexible. You want flexible, then you're back to organic semiconductors.
.
No, native silver in a stream bed is dull gray and does not look "bright or shiny or metallic" at all - unless is has been freshly scraped by a rock.
Glass is generally considered to be inflexible, but fiber optic cables are made of it, and they can bend.
Congratulations, you're at the 3rd week of general chemistry.
I think there's definitely a need for some general chemistry.
These types of comments won't garner you any admiration.
.
As a chemist, I don't consider metallic to mean "shiny". Malleability would be the key difference between the platinum metals and any of the metal minerals. For example, pyrite is shiny but brittle. That made it easy to make jewelry out of silver and gold in its native state but impossible to make bronze swords until they learned to refine the minerals.
You can't bend silver halide, it's a crystalline material not a glass.
Was i looking for admiration? I'm just trying to limit the disinformation.
.
The last time I held an old photograph, I could bend it quite easily.
Maybe you tried bending one that is in a glass frame ?
You seem to think that if it hasn't been demonstrated already, it is impossible. But techniques to improve solar cell efficiency and durability are being investigated all the time. There was a time when silicon-based solar cells had very low efficiency. But they were improved. I predict the same will occur with silver halide solar cells.
Silver bismuth iodide (Ag–Bi–I) absorbers have an appropriate band gap between 1.8 and 1.9 eV for solar cells and exhibit a high absorption coefficient and excellent stability under ambient conditions.
SBI crystals, being solely composed of inorganic materials, exhibit relative resistance to moisture and oxygen, suggesting their potential for excellent durability. This characteristic is particularly relevant for flexible device applications, where plastic film substrates are permeable to oxygen and moisture.
.
Also this:
.
In solar cells, a higher bandgap is generally considered better because it allows the cell to absorb a broader range of sunlight, which includes higher-energy photons (like blue light) that are more efficient for conversion into electricity.
A lower bandgap (around 1.1 eV for silicon) allows for better absorption of lower-energy photons (like red light) but results in less efficient conversion of sunlight into electricity. In summary, a higher bandgap generally leads to better efficiency in solar cell performance.
.
Now you've really entered scientific fallacy. Old photographs aren't "silver halide". There no silver halide at all. It's washed away during development. But, to anticipate the next fallacy, film is flexible but it is also not "silver halide". It is small silver halide crystals in a gelatin matrix on a polymer backing. The polymer is flexible, the silver halide is not.
And, no, reducing silver halide to a latent silver image is not the same as collecting electrons in solar energy conversion. (Other than both start with absorbing light. )
And I never said that if it hasn't been done, it can't be done. There are, however, actual immutable laws of nature.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Now you've really entered scientific fallacy. Old photographs aren't "silver halide". There no silver halide at all. It's washed away during development.
Old photos do retain as much as ~.1g of silver per square foot. I believe xRays are even higher.
Now you've really entered scientific fallacy. Old photographs aren't "silver halide". There no silver halide at all. It's washed away during development.
Old photos do retain as much as ~.1g of silver per square foot. I believe xRays are even higher.
Silver NOT silver halide. The latent image is silver. The silver halide is washed away during fixing, otherwise the photographs would not be light stable.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Longevity has been one of the critical issues I've run into with respect to solar. Most manufacturers are looking for a 15-20 year minimum life expectancy. I don't know if copper has proven itself in that area with respect to solar (different challenges versus simple wiring).
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
I have always wondered what silver spot price would bring an end to many collections. It appears $100 has done that.
I have read a number of threads where people are saying they are selling it all to the refineries. I do understand that some refineries turn around and put 90% back into big dealer hands, but much is being melted. I don't think it will be as easy to replace collections if silver drops back down. I hate seeing the history/coins be destroyed. I hope many are able to hang onto things and enjoy the hobby a little longer.
Longevity has been one of the critical issues I've run into with respect to solar. Most manufacturers are looking for a 15-20 year minimum life expectancy. I don't know if copper has proven itself in that area with respect to solar (different challenges versus simple wiring).
It will just cause the price of copper which is even more ubiquitous to soar through the roof. At some price level, circulated Wheat cents and Indian cents would be melted too, but I suspect that would take a massive price spike (larger in proportion than occurred with silver).
Silver is similar in its physical and chemical properties to its two vertical neighbours in group 11 of the periodic table: copper, and gold. Its 47 electrons are arranged in the configuration [Kr]4d105s1, similarly to copper ([Ar]3d104s1) and gold ([Xe]4f145d106s1); group 11 is one of the few groups in the d-block which has a completely consistent set of electron configurations.[14] This distinctive electron configuration, with a single electron in the highest occupied s subshell over a filled d subshell, accounts for many of the singular properties of metallic silver.[15]
These are hardly all the facts but it's a good start;
Congratulations, you're at the 3rd week of general chemistry. The unique property of the platinum group metals is that they are found unalloyed in nature. That is, by the way, the only reason they became "precious metals". Iron was much more useful, but could only be made useful when primitive man learned to refine metals. Gold and silver were shiny and could be picked up in stream beds.
None of that has anything to do with solar energy conversion, but at least you're trying to learn something. Or maybe trying to find a reason to justify the conceived notion you already have.
Zinc and Magnesium also have "unique" properties unrelated to solar energy.
.
Native silver is somewhat rare (compared to silver sulfides, etc).
When pieces of native silver appear in stream beds, they are usually dull gray, not "bright and shiny".
@jmlanzaf said:
Congratulations, you're at the 3rd week of general chemistry.
No need for that.
.
"Bright and shiny" meaning metallic looking.
I think there's definitely a need for some general chemistry. For example, you said "flexible" panels were good even though silver halide isn't remotely flexible. You want flexible, then you're back to organic semiconductors.
.
I never stated that the halide is flexible. But panels made with silver halide (on a polymer substrate) can be flexible.
I just tried to do some rough calculations and checked with AI. Best guess is that 75ish percent of all existing Morgan’s are worth their melt value. For peace dollars, around 90%.
If silver stays at this level, or continues to increase, it seems logical that a ton will be melted.
Silver is similar in its physical and chemical properties to its two vertical neighbours in group 11 of the periodic table: copper, and gold. Its 47 electrons are arranged in the configuration [Kr]4d105s1, similarly to copper ([Ar]3d104s1) and gold ([Xe]4f145d106s1); group 11 is one of the few groups in the d-block which has a completely consistent set of electron configurations.[14] This distinctive electron configuration, with a single electron in the highest occupied s subshell over a filled d subshell, accounts for many of the singular properties of metallic silver.[15]
These are hardly all the facts but it's a good start;
Congratulations, you're at the 3rd week of general chemistry. The unique property of the platinum group metals is that they are found unalloyed in nature. That is, by the way, the only reason they became "precious metals". Iron was much more useful, but could only be made useful when primitive man learned to refine metals. Gold and silver were shiny and could be picked up in stream beds.
None of that has anything to do with solar energy conversion, but at least you're trying to learn something. Or maybe trying to find a reason to justify the conceived notion you already have.
Zinc and Magnesium also have "unique" properties unrelated to solar energy.
.
Native silver is somewhat rare (compared to silver sulfides, etc).
When pieces of native silver appear in stream beds, they are usually dull gray, not "bright and shiny".
@jmlanzaf said:
Congratulations, you're at the 3rd week of general chemistry.
No need for that.
.
"Bright and shiny" meaning metallic looking.
I think there's definitely a need for some general chemistry. For example, you said "flexible" panels were good even though silver halide isn't rem.otely flexible. You want flexible, then you're back to organic semiconductors.
.
I never stated that the halide is flexible. But panels made with silver halide (on a polymer substrate) can be flexible.
.
>
You quite literally told me you could bend a photograph as evidence of flexible silver halide despite their being no silver halide in it.
Can you put silver halide on a polymer substrate. Sure. Can you use it for a solar energy panel? Probably only with lower efficiency. You can do it for photography but it's not so easy for solar energy collection because you have to conduct the electrons through the material. It's a totally different process.
Photography creates small pixels of silver so having isolated microcrystals of silver halide works fine. The electrons reduce to silver and they stay local. All of the chemistry is local and stays on the film.
Solar energy collection requires the electrons to transfer through the circuit to the device. If you put microcrystals of any semiconductor on a polymer, you could make it flexible and it would absorb light. (You can do it with silicon, you want to guess why they don't?) What you cannot easily do is conduct the electrons to rest of the circuit because you don't have electrical conductivity through the material.
Now, people have played with semiconductors in liquids. But they are easier to use if you keep the chemistry local, like splitting hydrogen in the matrix. (Google "fuel cells".) This can be used for "energy" collection more than electricity generation but, again, we're talking about different processes. The problem with using them for traditional solar cells to collect electricity is that the efficiency drops as the electrons are trapped by other processes as they try to make their way through the material.
Now, moving electrons in the conduction band of a semiconductor or through a metal occurs because of a continuous band of orbitals the electrons can move through. As soon as you break the continuity of either one, the electron needs a different pathway. You can do it, in some cases, with molecular carriers that diffuse to the collector plate, but molecular diffusion is much slower than electrical conduction. And the slower the process, the more losses you have to deal with because of defect traps, phonon coupling, etc. That is why we're still using silicon (mostly) even though heterojunctions have been experimented with since the 1980s.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I'm sure there are numerous processes that use more silver than necessary. This is expected that economies would change as a result of silver price. I haven't seen silver foil in the grocery stores in more than 60 years. The more anyone saves the more it leaves for the next guy.
@nags said:
I just tried to do some rough calculations and checked with AI. Best guess is that 75ish percent of all existing Morgan’s are worth their melt value. For peace dollars, around 90%.
If silver stays at this level, or continues to increase, it seems logical that a ton will be melted.
You're probably right, earlier in year an 81-S in MS63 would go for about $65/70 when silver was around $30. Now over $100, melt is almost $80, guessing it would be hard to sell for over $80 even to the collector base, unless there was something unique about coin, i.e. PL, toning. Several Morgan semi-key dates below VF grade would also not bring more then spot. Not sure if this is good for those that hold on to collection (less supply in future) or bad because the new folks only consider silver to be bullion.
While R&D is developing alternatives to silver, scaling that process so that it meets a significant portion of demand may take some time. My guess is the concern, and the reason for the major price increases, is what gets solar and battery manufacturers through the next few years. Consider solid state batteries. They’ve been in the discussion for at least five years but we’re only now seeing auto companies on the cusp of releasing solid state battery cars. China is protecting is silver supply. I don’t think this would be such a major issue if alternative was right around the corner.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
Great Collections has coin auctions ending every Sunday night. I am seeing $10/$20 Libs up to MS 63 selling where the seller is getting less than melt. Same with slabbed, graded $20 Saints. In most cases the buyers are getting these coins slightly below melt.
Certainly, many raw, common date gold coins are going to refiners.
As someone who actually made solar panels, by the hundreds per day, we did not use ANY silver.
We used CIGS
CIGS solar panels are a type of thin-film photovoltaic technology made from Copper Indium Gallium Selenide (CIGS) material, designed for high flexibility, light weight, and efficient low-light performance. They are ideal for curved surfaces, RVs, boats, and portable applications, often weighing significantly less than traditional, rigid crystalline silicon panels.
One of the biggest customers was the US Air Force, using hundreds of them on an used runway at Bagram AF base in Afghanistan. They had lots of generators requiring fuel that had to come via truck tankers from Pakistan. Lots of people died as these trucks were ambushed. Solar replaced the generators.
The true lifespan of those panels has yet to be proven.
With less silver in them (but still some silver), they may end up in landfills after their lifespan is over.
That silver might not ever be recovered.
The true lifespan of those panels has yet to be proven.
With less silver in them (but still some silver), they may end up in landfills after their lifespan is over.
That silver might not ever be recovered.
.
Or it will all be recycled. Funny how the target keeps moving in this discussion...
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The true lifespan of those panels has yet to be proven.
With less silver in them (but still some silver), they may end up in landfills after their lifespan is over.
That silver might not ever be recovered.
.
Or it will all be recycled. Funny how the target keeps moving in this discussion...
.
If the amount of silver is small, it may not be economical to ever recover it.
It is not at all unusual for a free-for-all discussion to go is all sorts of directions.
Comments
That could mean in theory that all non-certified (raw) coins as gold goes higher will be targeted for melting if a dealer or owner just wants the value right away rather than sell it to a collector. But the same could happen to even graded coins that once sold at premiums of 100-200% to the gold price !!
Refiners could be the buyer of last resort but the first place some go to sell.
There might not be as many gold refiners as silver...my LCS is seeking out a gold refiner for his jewelry needs that hails from Italy !
..> @jmlanzaf said:
.
The last time I held an old photograph, I could bend it quite easily.
Maybe you tried bending one that is in a glass frame ?
You seem to think that if it hasn't been demonstrated already, it is impossible. But techniques to improve solar cell efficiency and durability are being investigated all the time. There was a time when silicon-based solar cells had very low efficiency. But they were improved. I predict the same will occur with silver halide solar cells.
https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlehtml/2025/sc/d4sc07955h
.
Also this:
.
.
It would be nice if most of the silver could be removed from solar cells leaving a lot more for other use.
Solar cell efficiency is less than 25%. If this could be increased substantially it wouldn't matter if the cells required more silver. It might also be pointed out that improvement in the transmission of electricity could be hugely important and could well require more silver. Silver is a major component of most material research into room temperature superconductivity.
In other words solar could require twice as much silver per kw if it became more efficient.
Another thing about silver in solar cells is that this silver is recoverable like money in the bank. It doesn't use silver so much as it makes it work.
Most technological advancements in optics, electronics, electrical systems, and applications on surfaces to improve performance in many parameters are more likely to contain silver than any other element. More and more processes, objects, and products made by man will contain silver going forward. The question isn't aggregate demand today or tomorrow, but rather the direction of the trends.
I believe increasing silver usage is baked into the reality described by science itself. There's plenty of silver now and for the foreseeable future but it is likely to be rationed by price in ten or twenty years. That's when you want to own silver. In the meantime people are waking up to a situation where short sightedness caused vast amounts of the metal to be wasted turning it into trash like the silver foil that was sold right next to the aluminum foil in the supermarkets back in the 1960's. Nobody really tried very hard to economize when silver accounted for less than .01% of your costs with silver at $4 an ounce. A century of massive silver production is gone converted to trinkets that molder in landfills spread over the face of the earth by economies geared to greed, waste, and consumerism. Now we pay the piper and the piper accepts only silver.
Now you've really entered scientific fallacy. Old photographs aren't "silver halide". There no silver halide at all. It's washed away during development. But, to anticipate the next fallacy, film is flexible but it is also not "silver halide". It is small silver halide crystals in a gelatin matrix on a polymer backing. The polymer is flexible, the silver halide is not.
And, no, reducing silver halide to a latent silver image is not the same as collecting electrons in solar energy conversion. (Other than both start with absorbing light. )
And I never said that if it hasn't been done, it can't be done. There are, however, actual immutable laws of nature.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Old photos do retain as much as ~.1g of silver per square foot. I believe xRays are even higher.
Silver NOT silver halide. The latent image is silver. The silver halide is washed away during fixing, otherwise the photographs would not be light stable.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
A good article on substituting copper for silver in solar panels and some of the challenges.
https://investingnews.com/solar-panels-silver-copper/
Longevity has been one of the critical issues I've run into with respect to solar. Most manufacturers are looking for a 15-20 year minimum life expectancy. I don't know if copper has proven itself in that area with respect to solar (different challenges versus simple wiring).
I have always wondered what silver spot price would bring an end to many collections. It appears $100 has done that.
I have read a number of threads where people are saying they are selling it all to the refineries. I do understand that some refineries turn around and put 90% back into big dealer hands, but much is being melted. I don't think it will be as easy to replace collections if silver drops back down. I hate seeing the history/coins be destroyed. I hope many are able to hang onto things and enjoy the hobby a little longer.
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
It will just cause the price of copper which is even more ubiquitous to soar through the roof. At some price level, circulated Wheat cents and Indian cents would be melted too, but I suspect that would take a massive price spike (larger in proportion than occurred with silver).
.
I never stated that the halide is flexible. But panels made with silver halide (on a polymer substrate) can be flexible.
.
I just tried to do some rough calculations and checked with AI. Best guess is that 75ish percent of all existing Morgan’s are worth their melt value. For peace dollars, around 90%.
If silver stays at this level, or continues to increase, it seems logical that a ton will be melted.
>
You quite literally told me you could bend a photograph as evidence of flexible silver halide despite their being no silver halide in it.
Can you put silver halide on a polymer substrate. Sure. Can you use it for a solar energy panel? Probably only with lower efficiency. You can do it for photography but it's not so easy for solar energy collection because you have to conduct the electrons through the material. It's a totally different process.
Photography creates small pixels of silver so having isolated microcrystals of silver halide works fine. The electrons reduce to silver and they stay local. All of the chemistry is local and stays on the film.
Solar energy collection requires the electrons to transfer through the circuit to the device. If you put microcrystals of any semiconductor on a polymer, you could make it flexible and it would absorb light. (You can do it with silicon, you want to guess why they don't?) What you cannot easily do is conduct the electrons to rest of the circuit because you don't have electrical conductivity through the material.
Now, people have played with semiconductors in liquids. But they are easier to use if you keep the chemistry local, like splitting hydrogen in the matrix. (Google "fuel cells".) This can be used for "energy" collection more than electricity generation but, again, we're talking about different processes. The problem with using them for traditional solar cells to collect electricity is that the efficiency drops as the electrons are trapped by other processes as they try to make their way through the material.
Now, moving electrons in the conduction band of a semiconductor or through a metal occurs because of a continuous band of orbitals the electrons can move through. As soon as you break the continuity of either one, the electron needs a different pathway. You can do it, in some cases, with molecular carriers that diffuse to the collector plate, but molecular diffusion is much slower than electrical conduction. And the slower the process, the more losses you have to deal with because of defect traps, phonon coupling, etc. That is why we're still using silicon (mostly) even though heterojunctions have been experimented with since the 1980s.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@cladking @dcarr
And so the replacement of silver in PV begins:
https://www.pv-magazine.com/2026/01/20/dk-electronic-materials-customer-adopts-copper-paste-in-gw-scale-cell-production/
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I'm sure there are numerous processes that use more silver than necessary. This is expected that economies would change as a result of silver price. I haven't seen silver foil in the grocery stores in more than 60 years. The more anyone saves the more it leaves for the next guy.
You're probably right, earlier in year an 81-S in MS63 would go for about $65/70 when silver was around $30. Now over $100, melt is almost $80, guessing it would be hard to sell for over $80 even to the collector base, unless there was something unique about coin, i.e. PL, toning. Several Morgan semi-key dates below VF grade would also not bring more then spot. Not sure if this is good for those that hold on to collection (less supply in future) or bad because the new folks only consider silver to be bullion.
While R&D is developing alternatives to silver, scaling that process so that it meets a significant portion of demand may take some time. My guess is the concern, and the reason for the major price increases, is what gets solar and battery manufacturers through the next few years. Consider solid state batteries. They’ve been in the discussion for at least five years but we’re only now seeing auto companies on the cusp of releasing solid state battery cars. China is protecting is silver supply. I don’t think this would be such a major issue if alternative was right around the corner.
Great Collections has coin auctions ending every Sunday night. I am seeing $10/$20 Libs up to MS 63 selling where the seller is getting less than melt. Same with slabbed, graded $20 Saints. In most cases the buyers are getting these coins slightly below melt.
Certainly, many raw, common date gold coins are going to refiners.
As someone who actually made solar panels, by the hundreds per day, we did not use ANY silver.
We used CIGS
CIGS solar panels are a type of thin-film photovoltaic technology made from Copper Indium Gallium Selenide (CIGS) material, designed for high flexibility, light weight, and efficient low-light performance. They are ideal for curved surfaces, RVs, boats, and portable applications, often weighing significantly less than traditional, rigid crystalline silicon panels.
One of the biggest customers was the US Air Force, using hundreds of them on an used runway at Bagram AF base in Afghanistan. They had lots of generators requiring fuel that had to come via truck tankers from Pakistan. Lots of people died as these trucks were ambushed. Solar replaced the generators.
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The true lifespan of those panels has yet to be proven.
With less silver in them (but still some silver), they may end up in landfills after their lifespan is over.
That silver might not ever be recovered.
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Or it will all be recycled. Funny how the target keeps moving in this discussion...
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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If the amount of silver is small, it may not be economical to ever recover it.
It is not at all unusual for a free-for-all discussion to go is all sorts of directions.
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