USA-Philippines 1909-S Peso S/S/S (Tripled S Variety)
PoormanUSPI
Posts: 9 ✭
Lately, we have acquired a USPI 1909-S Peso Coin graded by PCGS at MS63. It turned out to be the rare 1909-S/S/S (Tripled Mintmark) Variety. It was submitted to PCGS (via Walkthru) for attribution. It was returned as just an S/S. The S/S/S is totally different from S/S and you can tell them apart. You don't even need to be an expert to see the difference. We submitted the inquiry but PCGS Customer Service responded that their grading is correct. Told them we weren't questioning the grade but the variety attribution.
We have sent closeup photo of the coin mintmark, plus photos of the S/S/S in Coinfacts and owners of the variety in the Registry. But it seems that PCGS Customer Service didn't want to do some diligence. If the coin was attributed correctly, it would have been top pop and an excellent addition to Coinfacts photo database.
See the photo of the coin below. Cert 56585595 (Tripled S by Kyla). The 3 knobs on the top of the S are the classic indicators of the tripled S variety. It is very obvious. How can PCGS experts miss that? Why would customer service insist that it is correct. The other photos are from Coinfacts and the various collectors of the series in the registry. The last photo is an example of the S/S Variety. It doesn't have those 3 knobs on top.
If you agree with our claims, what should we do so that they coin can be graded correctly. We should be returning the coin for incorrect attribution but it would be a waste of money if PCGS insists that it is just an S/S.
Comments
There have been many unhappy accounts of improper variety attribution at PCGS, you are not alone. However, to answer your question of what to do, that is obvious. PCGS has told you to pound sand, you can:
1) spend lots of money resubmitting in hopes PCGS changes its opinion.
2) do nothing and live with the current opinion
3) send to NGC/CACG/ANACS and see what one or all of those say
I would sent to NGC but that is your call. This is assuming that NGC does recognize this variety, I suggest that you review NGC's variety plus list before you submit.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
One could call ngc if need be and ask them (email works as well) just saying
U.S. Philippines 1909-S/S/S. Quite a rare variety!
Personally I have had very very poor results with sending Collaborative evidence to PCGS to support my variety claims.
Photos , drawings ,explanations ,photo PCGS references Etc. even with their show expert advice to resubmit.
I am not sure they even look at them?
At NGC their variety expert told me once they get tons of Variety submittals from folks claiming all kinds of anomalies as varieties. They seem to be numb to every thing they see and the claims it seems.
I have spent way too much money making my cases.
My mentor was J.T. Stanton Author of Cherrypickers!! so I guess I know nothing.
Thank you for your comments. My coin has been graded and I think PCGS should just get the attribution right. The S/S are S/S/S are completely 2 different varieties. It would really not make sense to me if they can't even see the difference. And PCGS is even supposed to have the experts. :-(
Btw, this would look good in your registry. :-P
Thank you for your comment. NGC has been so far disappointing for me. The last time I sent an expensive coin they sent it back and suggested to have it conserved. I sent it to PCGS and it came back MS63. I'm glad I didn't send it back to NGC. NGC, btw, has the wrong variety posted in their Variety Plus. They posted the Tripled S as Doubled S. I think that is what the PCGS variety "specialist" based his variety on my coin on.
We lost a great NGC Philippine specialist when David Lange passed away.
He was a friend of mine and some one who was always helpful with USPI coins.
He once had a fabulous collection of USPI coins. sold it to another USPI enthusiast long ago, when he got married.
“If you agree with our claims, what should we do so that they coin can be graded correctly. We should be returning the coin for incorrect attribution but it would be a waste of money if PCGS insists that it is just an S/S.”
If I had to guess, you bought this coin for hundreds of dollars from a fairly recent auction I missed (without the S/S listed at the time) as I was out of the country. If I had seen the auction, you might not be having the “problem” you are having right now (I might be having the same problem). lol. Since YOU ASKED what your best strategy might be at this point- I’ll answer you. Sell the coin now for a RIDICULOUS profit. Take the money and run and move on to your next cherry-picking opportunity. And never look back! I’m just responding honestly to your “plea for help” here.
Cheers (and just my 2 cents)!
Wondercoin.
It would be nice seeing a wonderful collection up close. > @wondercoin said:
I guess I was the lucky one huh. You were out of the country, and I just got back. :-P Btw, how RIDICULOUS should the profit be? I am not selling for now. I wasn't cherry-picking, btw. It just so happened a friend invited me to see the items for auctions.
Not surprising. Similar situation keeps happening with a a series I collect. There were 3 versions of Soviet Union's 1980 Olympic Gold and Platinum sets; Regular finish, Proof finish and Matte finish. As you might expect, first 2 are easy to spot but for whatever reason, PCGS keeps assuming the matte coins are just the regular finish coins.
1st coin I sent in asking for matte designation, they slabbed as MS. I called and had the coin re-examined before it was even shipped back and they agreed and changed the designation to matte. Great!
2nd coin I sent in was also graded as MS by our hosts. Caught that one as well before shipment to me but this time PCGS told me that the designation is correct. I tried sending proof and pictures to no avail.
NGC has no issue recognizing these as matte (I cracked both out of NGC matte labeled holders).
It is always a great loss when an enthusiast of the USPI coin series passes away or relinquishes a collection because I feel that there are are only a handful who truly recognize the beauty and importance of the coins. :-(
I did try to tell them about the issue. I contacted customer service and sent photos. I contacted them twice, but I also got the same generic response twice. They didn't even bother to check the photos or do some diligence. They just keep sending a saved response. Very frustrating.
@PoormanUSPI
Customer Service is great when you finally get through but appears to be able to take notes and pass them along. in my case, I was told the 2nd coin went back to the grading room and they deemed it a regular issue (MS).
Here, be a judge:
A regular MS coin in an NGC holder:
My Matte coin in it's original NGC holder:
PCGS photo of my coin:
