@Higashiyama said: Selling a call can be thought of as limiting your upside in return for extra income.
Thank you. As far as I am concerned, the net result is not much different than simply taking out a smaller position than the one he just liquidated, in favor of a nominal income that's not going to be very significant with any kind of upward price movements.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Yesterday all Dec 2025 futures contracts had to be closed out. I took some snapshots of the Dec contracts back in the middle of Nov. There were 84,000+ open contracts in Nov and the price of silver was ~ $53. Assuming most were closed out these past few of days. Someone made a lot of money and someone lost a lot of money, even if the price dropped $8.
Extrapolating these numbers, that's a notional value of over $29 Billion (84,000 X 5,000 ozs. X $70) in physical silver for these contracts and assuming a 25% value increase from Nov, that a profit of $7B. Wow, not sure if the COMEX keeps the daily #'s but glad I copied the day back in Nov. The next big OI contract is March 2026.
@MsMorrisine said:
you don't rescue a bank that lost lots of money by doing repos (or reverse repos). a repo is a short term liquidity move. it doesn't cover losses.
a repo is also a loan that is paid back with interest. should an institution need to cover a loss, they don't take out a very temporary loan which involves paying more back
a failing institution would be either closed and assets sold or a buyer for the institution found
Lehman went bankrupt. qe saved others by putting money into institutions excess reserve balances at the fed res. qe and excess reserve balances add money to them not loaning a broke institution money on a very short term basis
You do use a repo to rescue a bank(s) from going under that has loan exposure to a bank that is going under. Repos help stop dominoes from falling. In this case you don't rescue a dead man, you rescue the guy who was his creditor.
that would be the fed window. repos are very short term loans
anyway... where's the first domino? it's not super secret when it has to file bankruptcy in court
@jmski52 said: @Higashiyama said: Selling a call can be thought of as limiting your upside in return for extra income.
Thank you. As far as I am concerned, the net result is not much different than simply taking out a smaller position than the one he just liquidated, in favor of a nominal income that's not going to be very significant with any kind of upward price movements.
In your example one would be drawing down principle. Thats different.
Not sure if 30% annualized return is considered "nominal".
The post said BOA was caught short 5.5 million ounces of silver. That's under half a billion.
Their capital is over $200 billion. Citibank's is about $175 billion.
This is ridiculous. It's like saying Elon Musk or Bill Gates are filing bankruptcy because someone heard they forgot their wallets and couldn't pay for $30 in gas.
Turns out in late 2025 Bank of America and Citi were net short 4.4 million ounces of silver, 5.5 times annual global mine supply. 60% of that supply goes to industrial demand. They weren't shorting a market, they were shorting a supply that does not exist. One way, besides a bank repo, to help bail them out is to bring the price back down. This is what happened on Monday. The fundamental thesis for Silver hasn't changed, but the ownership structure just got a lot cleaner.
Turns out in late 2025 Bank of America and Citi were net short 4.4 million ounces of silver, 5.5 times annual global mine supply. 60% of that supply goes to industrial demand. They weren't shorting a market, they were shorting a supply that does not exist. One way, besides a bank repo, to help bail them out is to bring the price back down. This is what happened on Monday. The fundamental thesis for Silver hasn't changed, but the ownership structure just got a lot cleaner.
@jmski52 said: Well, I took that money and bought 100oz of paper on yesterday's drop. So about $5 lower than sale. Then i sold a call option giving me 15% downside protection as well as potential 15% upside. And i have cash left over.
Fun & Games
I must admit that I've never traded options and see no reason to do so.
Explain what you mean when you say that you bought 100 oz. of paper. What kind of contract?
And, isn't selling a call option just like betting against your own position?
I've been selling covered calls (selling calls on securities you own) for many years. I personally think it's a cheat code. I sell short term out of the money calls. For example, I sell weekly calls of TSLA, usually around $20 out of the money (If stock at 470, my option strike price is around 490). For the hassle I collect I nice premium each week. The gain is capped, but I'm fine with that.
For example, I sell weekly calls of TSLA, usually around $20 out of the money (If stock at 470, my option strike price is around 490). For the hassle I collect I nice premium each week. The gain is capped, but I'm fine with that.
IF the trade went against you, what is your potential liability?
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@jmski52 asked “IF the trade went against you, what is your potential liability?”
Because he owns the stock the worst that can happen is that he is forced to sell at 490. So he loses upside beyond that, but there is no risk of a loss. It is a strategy I will likely pursue during retirement.
@jmski52 said: For example, I sell weekly calls of TSLA, usually around $20 out of the money (If stock at 470, my option strike price is around 490). For the hassle I collect I nice premium each week. The gain is capped, but I'm fine with that.
IF the trade went against you, what is your potential liability?
In the TSLA example, if the price at close on Friday is under 490 I keep the stock and the premium. If the stock is above 490 I typically buy back the option right before the market closes. By doing so you are not really paying any premium. If the stock drops the premium mitigates or covers the loss for the week. Say I received a $8.00 premium and the stock is at 492 before close. I buy the option back for $2, so for the week made $22 in appreciation, and $6.00 cash for the option premium.
The only time it's bad is if there is a massive price increase. You still make your $20 stock increase, plus a $7-$10 option premium, but miss out on the upside if the price goes over 500ish.
I'd say that you would need to go through some losses on the learning curve before becoming proficient, and even then you would have to be good at gauging the market.
I do much better in straight bullion with the larger trend moves - like right now.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@jmski52 said:
They aren't releasing the name of the bank, but it is supposedly confirmed that the bank didn't meet it's margin call at 2:00 AM last night and the Fed was forced to pump 34 billion into the repo market. The bank's position was liquidated at 2:47 AM.
Reported by David Parket via Eric Yeung this morning.
The pardon is for tyrants. They like to declare pardons on holidays, such as the birthday of the dictator, or Christ, or the Revolution. Dictators should be encouraged to keep it up. And we should be encouraged to remember that the promiscuous dispensation of clemency is not a sign of political liberality. It is instead one of those valuable, identifying marks of tyranny.
Charles Krauthammer
@derryb said:
Margin call requires quick cash. Why use your own money when you can cry "help" to the FED. Obviously the FED >saw a danger to the system.
It never happened. And banks are prohibited from speculating on PMs.
These websites you frequent just traffic in lies. Ignorant longs...they make up excuses for their losing positions or trades or stalled prices.
@coastaljerseyguy said:
I see nothing on the major business news wires, Bloomberg, Reuters or WSJ. Also $34B is not a lot for the FED to >pump into the overnight repo market. Hard to believe a bank going under would not get news headlines quickly.
That's because it's 100% BS. The article or related ones are saying the Top 7 or 8 banks are all in trouble.
@coastaljerseyguy said:
I see nothing on the major business news wires, Bloomberg, Reuters or WSJ. Also $34B is not a lot for the FED to >pump into the overnight repo market. Hard to believe a bank going under would not get news headlines quickly.
That's because it's 100% BS. The article or related ones are saying the Top 7 or 8 banks are all in trouble.
These people are frauds.
Even if BofA & Citi lost $34B on the contracts and borrowed from the Repo window it is because their cash management tries to keep only enough cash to meet 'normal' obligations. Cash doesn't earn you income or its minimal. It was too late to sell bonds, so you borrow the cash from the FED. Next day you sell the bonds and pay back the FED. Again $30B amongst these top banks is a big loss but nowhere near putting them out of business. Hopefully they're re-examine their trading strategies and stop messing with the markets. And better yet, some big boys lose their annual bonuses. BofA pays more in bonuses then this loss.
Do we have any legitimate confirmation outside of youtube regarding this alleged bank gutter short failure? THKS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Retiring at 55, what day is today?
Then why does one of the largest banks (JPM) get fine $920 Million for "spoofing" (manipulating) the precious metals market on the futures exchange?
These websites you frequent just traffic in lies.
Now this one?
@Higashiyama said:
Although it doesn’t change the point (ie, that JPM was fined for spoofing) it was $920 million not billion. $920 million is a big fine. $920 billion would have been humongous! 😃
typo corrected
When gold and silver move together, it signals the coming end of fiat money.
Although it doesn’t change the point (ie, that JPM was fined for spoofing) it was $920 million not billion. $920 million is a big fine. $920 billion would have been humongous! 😃
Looks like COMEX, with its vaults at record lows, is buying time with margin hikes before they find themselves in the March delivery meat grinder. With silver leveraged at 250:1, it is going to spell financial armageddon. In addition, multiple bank PM trading desks, via the futures market, have put their respective bank dangerously exposed due to unregulated rehypothication practices. Both COMEX and banks that trade on their exchange face a growing risk unless the spot price comes down. For them Revelation Day has arrived.
Rehypothecation is a financial practice where a broker or lender reuses a client's pledged collateral (in this case silver) as collateral for their own borrowing or trades, essentially creating multiple layers of leverage on the same asset to generate liquidity and lower costs. It creats significant risk if the intermediary fails with the client becoming an unsecured creditor for their original assets. It's common in margin lending, securities lending, and crypto, allowing for more efficient use of assets but drastically increasing systemic risk.
When gold and silver move together, it signals the coming end of fiat money.
Brokerage firms can rehypothicate SLV and miner stocks, not sure futures or options can be rehypothicated. Since firms pay in full when a customer buys on margin & puts up 50%, the B/D's deserve to lend out or even deliver those shares (140% of margin debt) when needed. B/D's don't put up any extra 'firm' money when a customer trades futures and meets the minimum initial margin requirement, so B/D's cannot touch those positions. That's stealing.
Such news would blow up the banking system create a run on the banks. If true, there is no wonder why the news and name of the bank are being treated as Top Secret. If true, my first choice is BoA followed by Citi. Both are big players in the silver futures market.
When gold and silver move together, it signals the coming end of fiat money.
Such news would blow up the banking system create a run on the banks. If true, there is no wonder why the news and name of the bank are being treated as Top Secret. If true, my first choice is BoA followed by Citi. Both are big players in the silver futures market.
Come on brother, I know you are intelligent man. Certainly, you don't believe this malarky? RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Retiring at 55, what day is today?
Such news would blow up the banking system create a run on the banks. If true, there is no wonder why the news and name of the bank are being treated as Top Secret. If true, my first choice is BoA followed by Citi. Both are big players in the silver futures market.
Come on brother, I know you are intelligent man. Certainly, you don't believe this malarky? RGDS!
I simply presented a rumor that asks an important question. Note that before I commented on the its ramifications I said "if true."
When gold and silver move together, it signals the coming end of fiat money.
BofA and Citi would have to lose more then $34B to be seized by the regulators. Plus there is no way this could be kept quiet from workers in the US Govt agencies and other futures market participants. Did they lose a bundle, probably.
Such news would blow up the banking system create a run on the banks. If true, there is no wonder why the news and name of the bank are being treated as Top Secret. If true, my first choice is BoA followed by Citi. Both are big players in the silver futures market.
Come on brother, I know you are intelligent man. Certainly, you don't believe this malarky? RGDS!
I simply presented a rumor that asks an important question. Note that before I commented on the its ramifications I said "if true."
If true it would be all over the news. There isn't some great conspiracy underway to keep a missed gutter margin call top secret. The world could care less if the gutter was $5 or $500 an ozt. Perhaps a few jewelers and the bunker crew. That's about it. THKS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Retiring at 55, what day is today?
The world could care less if the gutter was $5 or $500 an ozt.
Would they care if a major bank went under? LOL
Well, a major bank didn't go under. We can sit here and fantasize about the what ifs all day long. I prefer the real world. THKS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Retiring at 55, what day is today?
Misleading to say an institution has gone under for tapping the fed. Big banks (TBTF) do that routinely when their gambles go bad. Not so the rest of us, like trucking companies, when government calls you TBSS (too bad, so sad).
I'm hearing now that the bank was probably not an American bank, but either European or Chinese. The margin call did happen and a bank was unable to meet it, which means that their entire position was liquidated at a loss. We do know that much. A large liquidation would contribute to the subsequent drop in price.
Carry on.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
I checked stock prices of all the major US Banks and nothing big happened this week. Also per a recent CFTC Bank Participation report for Dec, its the non-US Banks that had the shorts. Not that BofA India or somewhere else in Asia could be the culprit. Don't doubt the US Banks transferred some of their shorts to their subs.
@jmski52 said:
I'm hearing now that the bank was probably not an American bank, but either European or Chinese. The margin call did happen and a bank was unable to meet it, which means that their entire position was liquidated at a loss. We do know that much. A large liquidation would contribute to the subsequent drop in price.
Carry on.
.
A forced liquidation of short positions could cause the run-up in price from about $70 to the $84 peak.
Once that buying was over, the price could certainly fall back to where it was.
Just a theory.
Or, perhaps some bank was deep underwater on some other position (not silver) and they were forced to liquidate their profitable long position in silver so as to cover other losses elsewhere.
Comments
New York Life, the largest US insurer is now saying that gold should be included in portfolios.
per maneco64
I knew it would happen.
@Higashiyama said: Selling a call can be thought of as limiting your upside in return for extra income.
Thank you. As far as I am concerned, the net result is not much different than simply taking out a smaller position than the one he just liquidated, in favor of a nominal income that's not going to be very significant with any kind of upward price movements.
I knew it would happen.
Yesterday all Dec 2025 futures contracts had to be closed out. I took some snapshots of the Dec contracts back in the middle of Nov. There were 84,000+ open contracts in Nov and the price of silver was ~ $53. Assuming most were closed out these past few of days. Someone made a lot of money and someone lost a lot of money, even if the price dropped $8.
Extrapolating these numbers, that's a notional value of over $29 Billion (84,000 X 5,000 ozs. X $70) in physical silver for these contracts and assuming a 25% value increase from Nov, that a profit of $7B. Wow, not sure if the COMEX keeps the daily #'s but glad I copied the day back in Nov. The next big OI contract is March 2026.
that would be the fed window. repos are very short term loans
anyway... where's the first domino? it's not super secret when it has to file bankruptcy in court
And downside protection.
I could also use the leftover cash from sale of physical to buy a call for more potential gain.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
In your example one would be drawing down principle. Thats different.
Not sure if 30% annualized return is considered "nominal".
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
sell that call and you get called away when it finally breaks out
Was the sold call in the money or out of the money when sold?
The post said BOA was caught short 5.5 million ounces of silver. That's under half a billion.
Their capital is over $200 billion. Citibank's is about $175 billion.
This is ridiculous. It's like saying Elon Musk or Bill Gates are filing bankruptcy because someone heard they forgot their wallets and couldn't pay for $30 in gas.
Annual global mine supply is about 800 million ounces, so 4.4 million is about 0.55 percent of that number, not 5.5 times annual global mine supply.
Margin call requires quick cash. Why use your own money when you can cry "help" to the FED. Obviously the FED saw a danger to the system.
When gold and silver move together, it signals the coming end of fiat money.
cry help?
this op is "rumored: bank gone under" not a margin call
@derryb
I think the chart is saying BofA is short 1,000 contracts of 1,000,000 ozs or short 1Billion ozs. That's a much bigger #.
Moz = millions of ounces
When gold and silver move together, it signals the coming end of fiat money.
I've been selling covered calls (selling calls on securities you own) for many years. I personally think it's a cheat code. I sell short term out of the money calls. For example, I sell weekly calls of TSLA, usually around $20 out of the money (If stock at 470, my option strike price is around 490). For the hassle I collect I nice premium each week. The gain is capped, but I'm fine with that.
For example, I sell weekly calls of TSLA, usually around $20 out of the money (If stock at 470, my option strike price is around 490). For the hassle I collect I nice premium each week. The gain is capped, but I'm fine with that.
IF the trade went against you, what is your potential liability?
I knew it would happen.
@jmski52 asked “IF the trade went against you, what is your potential liability?”
Because he owns the stock the worst that can happen is that he is forced to sell at 490. So he loses upside beyond that, but there is no risk of a loss. It is a strategy I will likely pursue during retirement.
Does he liquidate the stock that he owns then?
I knew it would happen.
In the TSLA example, if the price at close on Friday is under 490 I keep the stock and the premium. If the stock is above 490 I typically buy back the option right before the market closes. By doing so you are not really paying any premium. If the stock drops the premium mitigates or covers the loss for the week. Say I received a $8.00 premium and the stock is at 492 before close. I buy the option back for $2, so for the week made $22 in appreciation, and $6.00 cash for the option premium.
The only time it's bad is if there is a massive price increase. You still make your $20 stock increase, plus a $7-$10 option premium, but miss out on the upside if the price goes over 500ish.
in futures language that isn't used for options normally
490 is the contract price and at that price the other side of the contract "takes delivery"
it's an automated process: no action by account holder. the other side of the contract is randomly assigned by computer.
they exercise at .01 above or below the contract price
I'd say that you would need to go through some losses on the learning curve before becoming proficient, and even then you would have to be good at gauging the market.
I do much better in straight bullion with the larger trend moves - like right now.
I knew it would happen.
Correct. That's why I typically close the contract prior to expiration if it's in the money (or in danger of bumping over the line).
Big Banks Enjoy Stealth Bailouts – A DCReport Exclusive
https://www.dcreport.org/2025/12/29/n...
The pardon is for tyrants. They like to declare pardons on holidays, such as the birthday of the dictator, or Christ, or the Revolution. Dictators should be encouraged to keep it up. And we should be encouraged to remember that the promiscuous dispensation of clemency is not a sign of political liberality. It is instead one of those valuable, identifying marks of tyranny.
Charles Krauthammer
Good report by another citizen journalist. Thanks ADG. The shell game continues...........
I knew it would happen.
It never happened. And banks are prohibited from speculating on PMs.
These websites you frequent just traffic in lies. Ignorant longs...they make up excuses for their losing positions or trades or stalled prices.
That's because it's 100% BS. The article or related ones are saying the Top 7 or 8 banks are all in trouble.
These people are frauds.
Even if BofA & Citi lost $34B on the contracts and borrowed from the Repo window it is because their cash management tries to keep only enough cash to meet 'normal' obligations. Cash doesn't earn you income or its minimal. It was too late to sell bonds, so you borrow the cash from the FED. Next day you sell the bonds and pay back the FED. Again $30B amongst these top banks is a big loss but nowhere near putting them out of business. Hopefully they're re-examine their trading strategies and stop messing with the markets. And better yet, some big boys lose their annual bonuses. BofA pays more in bonuses then this loss.
Do we have any legitimate confirmation outside of youtube regarding this alleged bank gutter short failure? THKS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Retiring at 55, what day is today?
Then why does one of the largest banks (JPM) get fine $920 Million for "spoofing" (manipulating) the precious metals market on the futures exchange?
Now this one?
typo corrected
When gold and silver move together, it signals the coming end of fiat money.
Did JPM pay the fine or respond that banks are prohibited from speculating on PMs and thus could not possibly manipulate precious metals markets?
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
March of Time - 27 Centuries in Gold
https://coins.www.collectors-society.com/WCM/CoinCustomSetView.aspx?s=36590
Although it doesn’t change the point (ie, that JPM was fined for spoofing) it was $920 million not billion. $920 million is a big fine. $920 billion would have been humongous! 😃
Looks like COMEX, with its vaults at record lows, is buying time with margin hikes before they find themselves in the March delivery meat grinder. With silver leveraged at 250:1, it is going to spell financial armageddon. In addition, multiple bank PM trading desks, via the futures market, have put their respective bank dangerously exposed due to unregulated rehypothication practices. Both COMEX and banks that trade on their exchange face a growing risk unless the spot price comes down. For them Revelation Day has arrived.
Rehypothecation is a financial practice where a broker or lender reuses a client's pledged collateral (in this case silver) as collateral for their own borrowing or trades, essentially creating multiple layers of leverage on the same asset to generate liquidity and lower costs. It creats significant risk if the intermediary fails with the client becoming an unsecured creditor for their original assets. It's common in margin lending, securities lending, and crypto, allowing for more efficient use of assets but drastically increasing systemic risk.
When gold and silver move together, it signals the coming end of fiat money.
Brokerage firms can rehypothicate SLV and miner stocks, not sure futures or options can be rehypothicated. Since firms pay in full when a customer buys on margin & puts up 50%, the B/D's deserve to lend out or even deliver those shares (140% of margin debt) when needed. B/D's don't put up any extra 'firm' money when a customer trades futures and meets the minimum initial margin requirement, so B/D's cannot touch those positions. That's stealing.
At the money.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Did a major bank miss a margin call involving silver and was the bank seized by regulators?
Such news would blow up the banking system create a run on the banks. If true, there is no wonder why the news and name of the bank are being treated as Top Secret. If true, my first choice is BoA followed by Citi. Both are big players in the silver futures market.
When gold and silver move together, it signals the coming end of fiat money.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
When gold and silver move together, it signals the coming end of fiat money.
Come on brother, I know you are intelligent man. Certainly, you don't believe this malarky? RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Retiring at 55, what day is today?
I simply presented a rumor that asks an important question. Note that before I commented on the its ramifications I said "if true."
When gold and silver move together, it signals the coming end of fiat money.
BofA and Citi would have to lose more then $34B to be seized by the regulators. Plus there is no way this could be kept quiet from workers in the US Govt agencies and other futures market participants. Did they lose a bundle, probably.
If true it would be all over the news. There isn't some great conspiracy underway to keep a missed gutter margin call top secret. The world could care less if the gutter was $5 or $500 an ozt. Perhaps a few jewelers and the bunker crew. That's about it. THKS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Retiring at 55, what day is today?
Would they care if a major bank went under? LOL
When gold and silver move together, it signals the coming end of fiat money.
"if true."
COPPER is gutter !
Well, a major bank didn't go under. We can sit here and fantasize about the what ifs all day long. I prefer the real world. THKS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Retiring at 55, what day is today?
Misleading to say an institution has gone under for tapping the fed. Big banks (TBTF) do that routinely when their gambles go bad. Not so the rest of us, like trucking companies, when government calls you TBSS (too bad, so sad).
I like the way you always avoid answering questions that make you think. LOL
When gold and silver move together, it signals the coming end of fiat money.
I'm hearing now that the bank was probably not an American bank, but either European or Chinese. The margin call did happen and a bank was unable to meet it, which means that their entire position was liquidated at a loss. We do know that much. A large liquidation would contribute to the subsequent drop in price.
Carry on.
I knew it would happen.
I checked stock prices of all the major US Banks and nothing big happened this week. Also per a recent CFTC Bank Participation report for Dec, its the non-US Banks that had the shorts. Not that BofA India or somewhere else in Asia could be the culprit. Don't doubt the US Banks transferred some of their shorts to their subs.
.
A forced liquidation of short positions could cause the run-up in price from about $70 to the $84 peak.
Once that buying was over, the price could certainly fall back to where it was.
Just a theory.
Or, perhaps some bank was deep underwater on some other position (not silver) and they were forced to liquidate their profitable long position in silver so as to cover other losses elsewhere.
.