@ProofCollection said:
It will be hard for me to choose HA to sell coins. I'll have to really feel that HA is the best place to get the highest bids and I think for most coins I deal with I'm better off consigning with dealers.
The real question we should be asking, what extra value are sellers going to get for an extra 2%?
Just my 2C but I will buy auction coins from dealers 1-3 years after the fact for less money. I have numerous examples of top quality coins which I paid much less for (ie Newman). All the dealers I know which have great reputations work on 10% or less buying and selling. They have already evaluated the coins and then I can take the next step in evlauating the purcharse. Work with the best dealers and auctions can't compete.
But....I love looking at the auction catalogues in hand. I have decades of catalogues I peruse from time to time and it's enjoyable.
@TimNH said:
That's the thing though, no one lives forever, you eventually have to sell (ok, maybe leave them as heirlooms but probably not), and these fees are the cost of being in the hobby.
That cost is irrelevant to me. For financial planning purposes, my collection is worth $0 and I consider anything spent on it to be gone, the same way it would be if I spent the money on lift tickets or greens fees. Whatever proceeds happen to be generated by its liquidation will be considered "found" money.
I understand other people have a different approach, and that's okay. My preference is to not collect coins whose cost I cannot afford to absorb as a complete loss. This allows me to enjoy my collection without worrying about what I'll eventually be able to sell it for. It would take all the fun out of the hobby for me if I were to concern myself over what I'll be able to sell a coin I'm thinking about buying for before I even own it. I know there are people here who do think about that sort of thing but again, that's okay- go with whatever works for you.
As far as how this fits into the topic of auction house fees and how they might affect what I can get for my coins, when the time comes for me to sell, the fees will be what they will be and I won't be losing any sleep over it.
Interesting concept. So if your house is robbed / coin collection stolen, and if you even chose the call the cops, they’d ask what’s the value, and you’d say zero.
@TimNH said:
That's the thing though, no one lives forever, you eventually have to sell (ok, maybe leave them as heirlooms but probably not), and these fees are the cost of being in the hobby.
That cost is irrelevant to me. For financial planning purposes, my collection is worth $0 and I consider anything spent on it to be gone, the same way it would be if I spent the money on lift tickets or greens fees. Whatever proceeds happen to be generated by its liquidation will be considered "found" money.
I understand other people have a different approach, and that's okay. My preference is to not collect coins whose cost I cannot afford to absorb as a complete loss. This allows me to enjoy my collection without worrying about what I'll eventually be able to sell it for. It would take all the fun out of the hobby for me if I were to concern myself over what I'll be able to sell a coin I'm thinking about buying for before I even own it. I know there are people here who do think about that sort of thing but again, that's okay- go with whatever works for you.
As far as how this fits into the topic of auction house fees and how they might affect what I can get for my coins, when the time comes for me to sell, the fees will be what they will be and I won't be losing any sleep over it.
Interesting concept. So if your house is robbed / coin collection stolen, and if you even chose the call the cops, they’d ask what’s the value, and you’d say zero.
Of course not. I said "For financial planning purposes...".
Numismatic auction houses are struggling. I can't blame any of them for increasing their prices. The Post Office does this. Like Heritage, I am still amazed a first class letter can arrived just about anywhere for what? .35 cents? So cheap!
@sanddollar said:
Numismatic auction houses are struggling. I can't blame any of them for increasing their prices. The Post Office does this. Like Heritage, I am still amazed a first class letter can arrived just about anywhere for what? .35 cents? So cheap!
Unless this was meant to be a joke and I missed it, I don't believe anything you wrote is even close to factual. Heritage isn't struggling and first class stamps cost 78 cents.
@pcgscacgold said:
The fee is part of what you are willing to pay. Doesn't really matter in the end. It does take away from the seller, unless they are big enough to get a cut of the BP.
I have seen this posted before, but it's not really true. If the buyer wants it they will bid more and fight over it regardless of the fees, over time they are willing to pay more and more even if they think they are not. Like saying you won't buy a fancy coffee because the price went up and next week you are buying three a day just like before the price increases.
No. It's definitely true. Some people are, perhaps, too ignorant to pay attention. But if i want to pay $100, I pay $100 whether there is 0% BP or 200%. In fact, I also subtract out the shipping.
The only people who should care are consignors.
It may be true for you and a few others but it's not true for everyone and it has nothing to do with ignorance either. How many times have you seen a member here post a newp and practically brag how buried they are but they "had to have it". That is not a dig at anyone but without a doubt there are people that will get into bidding wars because they must have it and the BP simply is not a concern. Granted this tends to be with really difficult to find material, but surely you can recall seeing posts like that for very common coins because of the color.
And if what you say is true and anyone with a brain cell is already backing out the BP now then what will another 2% matter anyway. If everyone is already doing it then this will not make any difference to the consignor since consignors have been losing all along. Which brings up an interesting question, if the consignors are and have been losing due to buyers backing out BP for years, why does anyone sell with Heritage? How many Heritage sellers do you know that are unhappy with the auction results because of buyers subtracting the BP when bidding?
Just out of curiosity how many top shelf coins or those with CAC beans are you winning with bids where you backed out the BP?
What you state is usually true for me due to the coins I buy. With the coins I've been buying for my primary collection in the past 15 years, it's play or get "locked out" because the chances of another decent coin showing up a second time in any reasonable timeframe are low or very low. Most of the coins I own in this series are dreck when it shows up. Many of the coins I own I've either seen one more or none close to comparable.
I would venture to say that less than 10% of HA's coins sold (and probably less than 3%) are "once in a decade" or "once in 5 year" type coins that you pay whatever you have to for if you want them. For the purposes of this thread I think those cases can be ignored.
And yet they are constantly calling it "feebay" and talking about the exorbitant fees...
People are funny.
It's the SELLERS who call it feebay. The BUYERS, not so much.
Einstein’s view of God was non-traditional and pantheistic, focusing on the harmony, order, and intelligibility of the cosmos rather than a personal deity. His quotes reveal a profound respect for the universe’s mysteries, a belief in rational laws, and a moral philosophy grounded in compassion and understanding, bridging science and spirituality.
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
@sanddollar said:
Numismatic auction houses are struggling. I can't blame any of them for increasing their prices. The Post Office does this. Like Heritage, I am still amazed a first class letter can arrived just about anywhere for what? .35 cents? So cheap!
Unless this was meant to be a joke and I missed it, I don't believe anything you wrote is even close to factual. Heritage isn't struggling and first class stamps cost 78 cents.
Okay, I Googled what you stated and yes, you are correct. I use the Forever Stamps and thought they were right around 35 cents each.
Regarding the struggling comment. If Heritage was already making a great living with the prior fees then why would they raise them?
Maybe so, but in my specialized collecting area, all FleaBay ever has is low-end swill. The good stuff I want is always at Heritage (and sometimes at Stacks or GC).
You never can find coin that appeals to you on ebay in your specialized collecting area that has been certified by a big 3 TPG? I mean, I've bought some really nice coins for my specialized collections on ebay, coins both raw and slabbed. I've found that the key to successful coin buying on ebay is to find the good sellers, not necessarily the lowest price sellers. It's entirely possible to buy quality coins on ebay that don't cost an arm and a leg. Diligence in the hunt is important to successful coin buying on ebay.
Einstein’s view of God was non-traditional and pantheistic, focusing on the harmony, order, and intelligibility of the cosmos rather than a personal deity. His quotes reveal a profound respect for the universe’s mysteries, a belief in rational laws, and a moral philosophy grounded in compassion and understanding, bridging science and spirituality.
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
Everyone wants to get a pay increase, year over year. Everyone wants to get bonuses.
A business, and its leaders, want to keep, or increase, their profit margins.
So, how do you do that?
Well, you sell more. If you can sell a lot more without increasing your expenses a lot, that may work and tide you over with the increases you want.
If you aren't getting the same volume, or at least aren't getting the same profit that you feel you need, and aren't getting more consignments that make up for it, then you increase your BP in this case.
It's a business. They have their projections they want to hit and are going to do what they feel they need to in order to hit them.
@Bochiman said:
Everyone wants to get a pay increase, year over year. Everyone wants to get bonuses.
A business, and its leaders, want to keep, or increase, their profit margins.
So, how do you do that?
Well, you sell more. If you can sell a lot more without increasing your expenses a lot, that may work and tide you over with the increases you want.
If you aren't getting the same volume, or at least aren't getting the same profit that you feel you need, and aren't getting more consignments that make up for it, then you increase your BP in this case.
It's a business. They have their projections they want to hit and are going to do what they feel they need to in order to hit them.
HA is trying to fatten up its profits for a PE buyout. The principals want to retire and cash out.
@pcgscacgold said:
The fee is part of what you are willing to pay. Doesn't really matter in the end. It does take away from the seller, unless they are big enough to get a cut of the BP.
I have seen this posted before, but it's not really true. If the buyer wants it they will bid more and fight over it regardless of the fees, over time they are willing to pay more and more even if they think they are not. Like saying you won't buy a fancy coffee because the price went up and next week you are buying three a day just like before the price increases.
No. It's definitely true. Some people are, perhaps, too ignorant to pay attention. But if i want to pay $100, I pay $100 whether there is 0% BP or 200%. In fact, I also subtract out the shipping.
The only people who should care are consignors.
It may be true for you and a few others but it's not true for everyone and it has nothing to do with ignorance either. How many times have you seen a member here post a newp and practically brag how buried they are but they "had to have it". That is not a dig at anyone but without a doubt there are people that will get into bidding wars because they must have it and the BP simply is not a concern. Granted this tends to be with really difficult to find material, but surely you can recall seeing posts like that for very common coins because of the color.
And if what you say is true and anyone with a brain cell is already backing out the BP now then what will another 2% matter anyway. If everyone is already doing it then this will not make any difference to the consignor since consignors have been losing all along. Which brings up an interesting question, if the consignors are and have been losing due to buyers backing out BP for years, why does anyone sell with Heritage? How many Heritage sellers do you know that are unhappy with the auction results because of buyers subtracting the BP when bidding?
Just out of curiosity how many top shelf coins or those with CAC beans are you winning with bids where you backed out the BP?
What you state is usually true for me due to the coins I buy. With the coins I've been buying for my primary collection in the past 15 years, it's play or get "locked out" because the chances of another decent coin showing up a second time in any reasonable timeframe are low or very low. Most of the coins I own in this series are dreck when it shows up. Many of the coins I own I've either seen one more or none close to comparable.
I would venture to say that less than 10% of HA's coins sold (and probably less than 3%) are "once in a decade" or "once in 5 year" type coins that you pay whatever you have to for if you want them. For the purposes of this thread I think those cases can be ignored.
I’m beginning to think heritage only wants once in a lifetime chance coins, and doesn’t wanna deal with the under $100,000 dreck. If they get 50-100 of these type of auctions per year, who needs a 1oz gold eagle in ms70 that the seller is going to net melt minus 22% to start with?
Layoff most of their staff, let AI write their descriptions on the unique coins, let the bigwigs reap the profits for the few dozen million dollar auctions they do.
You never can find coin that appeals to you on ebay in your specialized collecting area that has been certified by a big 3 TPG?
Even though I check it every day, I haven't bought anything for my primary collection off eBay in five years. Although, over that same time period, I have spent over six figures with Heritage and mid-five figures with Stacks and Great Collections.
@PerryHall said:
Don't forget that the BP is 0% on the BST Forum since you are cutting out the middleman.
This fact is a huge "missed opportunity" for many, especially for those who balk at the rising auction BP's. I'm surprised the BST is not used more frequently. Is there a particular reason why it's not that popular?? Has it gotten a "bad rap" unbeknownst to me?
@PerryHall said:
Don't forget that the BP is 0% on the BST Forum since you are cutting out the middleman.
This fact is a huge "missed opportunity" for many, especially for those who balk at the rising auction BP's. I'm surprised the BST is not used more frequently. Is there a particular reason why it's not that popular?? Has it gotten a "bad rap" unbeknownst to me?
I've done hundreds of great transactions on the BST but you have to be careful. Only buy from well-established members and get some references if in doubt. Don't hesitate to buy from new members here but only if they ship the coins for examination before payment is sent.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
To be honest, the change in Heritage charges will play a very small role in my current collecting plans. The $29 dollar minimum is exactly what it was before the change in percentage was made. 99% of my recent and more than likely 99% of my future auction items fall right around that window. I only need make a slight adjustment if the coin goes for more than $150. I doubt most collectors at my level are really going to care that much. James
@PerryHall said:
Don't forget that the BP is 0% on the BST Forum since you are cutting out the middleman.
This fact is a huge "missed opportunity" for many, especially for those who balk at the rising auction BP's. I'm surprised the BST is not used more frequently. Is there a particular reason why it's not that popular?? Has it gotten a "bad rap" unbeknownst to me?
I so wish this would take off, but as a buyer, there's nothing on there I want. Seems like just modern collectibles, MS slabs and bullion type coins. Please put a nice selection of crunchy Colonials and 1790s US stuff out there and I'm all over it!
@Bochiman said:
Everyone wants to get a pay increase, year over year. Everyone wants to get bonuses.
A business, and its leaders, want to keep, or increase, their profit margins.
So, how do you do that?
Well, you sell more. If you can sell a lot more without increasing your expenses a lot, that may work and tide you over with the increases you want.
If you aren't getting the same volume, or at least aren't getting the same profit that you feel you need, and aren't getting more consignments that make up for it, then you increase your BP in this case.
It's a business. They have their projections they want to hit and are going to do what they feel they need to in order to hit them.
It's a little different when the income is a commission based on sale price. When you start a business with that kind of pricing model you figure out what commission the market will bear and how much it costs to run your operation and your profit is the difference. The only real way to increase income is increase volume or increase the vig. HA's move signifies that they either think that what they offer is so superior that sellers will pay the higher fee or there just isn't enough competition.
@PerryHall said:
Don't forget that the BP is 0% on the BST Forum since you are cutting out the middleman.
This fact is a huge "missed opportunity" for many, especially for those who balk at the rising auction BP's. I'm surprised the BST is not used more frequently. Is there a particular reason why it's not that popular?? Has it gotten a "bad rap" unbeknownst to me?
I've done hundreds of great transactions on the BST but you have to be careful. Only buy from well-established members and get some references if in doubt. Don't hesitate to buy from new members here but only if they ship the coins for examination before payment is sent.
I'd never send a coin to a collector (not dealer) without receiving payment first. They can pay by Paypal to protect themself and depending upon the coin, I'd agree in advance to a return.
@GoldFinger1969 . What they are talking about is how on Great Collections the auction counts down to a final second and then that is it. Whoever has highest bid wins. If you ever follow a Heritage auction live they have a bidding window that counts down the final 4 or 5 seconds. If anyone places a valid cut bid and or a full bid the clock countdown starts all over again. sometimes the clock restarts multipl;e times. James
@seatedlib3991 said: @GoldFinger1969 . What they are talking about is how on Great Collections the auction counts down to a final second and then that is it. Whoever has highest bid wins. If you ever follow a Heritage auction live they have a bidding window that counts down the final 4 or 5 seconds. If anyone places a valid cut bid and or a full bid the clock countdown starts all over again. sometimes the clock restarts multipl;e times. James
@DisneyFan . I doubt it. My usual collecting interests fall in the under $500 range but my personal life dictates I pursue a slightly lower level of coin values. james
@PerryHall said: Don't forget that the BP is 0% on the BST Forum since you are cutting out the middleman.
Posted way back on page one, this seems to make sense but not always. I offered items there several months ago at very reasonable prices and got no response. I went to Stack’s where I paid my 5% and the buyers paid their 20% and I did very well. Most significantly, one item I offered at the BST for $2,300 sold at Stack’s for $3,400 to me.
I understand the logic expressed by members who figure the BP into their high bid and stop, I can’t see them winning many premium items.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
@Maywood said: @PerryHall said: Don't forget that the BP is 0% on the BST Forum since you are cutting out the middleman.
Posted way back on page one, this seems to make sense but not always. I offered items there several months ago at very reasonable prices and got no response. I went to Stack’s where I paid my 5% and the buyers paid their 20% and I did very well. Most significantly, one item I offered at the BST for $2,300 sold at Stack’s for $3,400 to me.
I understand the logic expressed by members who figure the BP into their high bid and stop, I can’t see them winning many premium items.
Don't forget that the BST Forum is FREE so if a coin doesn't sell there, it didn't cost you anything. Obviously, not every coin will find a buyer on the BST but it never hurts to try if you know what you need to get for your coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@Maywood said: @PerryHall said: Don't forget that the BP is 0% on the BST Forum since you are cutting out the middleman.
Posted way back on page one, this seems to make sense but not always. I offered items there several months ago at very reasonable prices and got no response. I went to Stack’s where I paid my 5% and the buyers paid their 20% and I did very well. Most significantly, one item I offered at the BST for $2,300 sold at Stack’s for $3,400 to me.
I understand the logic expressed by members who figure the BP into their high bid and stop, I can’t see them winning many premium items.
Don't forget that the BST Forum is FREE so if a coin doesn't sell there, it didn't cost you anything. Obviously, not every coin will find a buyer on the BST but it never hurts to try if you know what you need to get for your coin.
It would have "hurt" $1100 worth. Apparently it's not free...
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
How do you get 5% seller fee at Stacks ?
That's very appealing
As far as selling on BST here I forget to look often. And I find it odd but routine it seems that items sold thread gets emptied, devoid of info. I did buy an item once, excellent experience and seller left images and text up while it shipped.
Never bid against dealers and I have purchsed same items > @PerryHall said:
@Maywood said: @PerryHall said: Don't forget that the BP is 0% on the BST Forum since you are cutting out the middleman.
Posted way back on page one, this seems to make sense but not always. I offered items there several months ago at very reasonable prices and got no response. I went to Stack’s where I paid my 5% and the buyers paid their 20% and I did very well. Most significantly, one item I offered at the BST for $2,300 sold at Stack’s for $3,400 to me.
I understand the logic expressed by members who figure the BP into their high bid and stop, I can’t see them winning many premium items.
Don't forget that the BST Forum is FREE so if a coin doesn't sell there, it didn't cost you anything. Obviously, not every coin will find a buyer on the BST but it never hurts to try if you know what you need to get for your coin.
And yet they are constantly calling it "feebay" and talking about the exorbitant fees...
People are funny.
It's the SELLERS who call it feebay. The BUYERS, not so much.
Are you saying sellers aren't people?
C'mon you're just being silly. You know in your heart what I said is true. Why not just admit it? ebay is GREAT for buyers, especially buyers who are good at separating the wheat from the chaff.
Einstein’s view of God was non-traditional and pantheistic, focusing on the harmony, order, and intelligibility of the cosmos rather than a personal deity. His quotes reveal a profound respect for the universe’s mysteries, a belief in rational laws, and a moral philosophy grounded in compassion and understanding, bridging science and spirituality.
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
And yet they are constantly calling it "feebay" and talking about the exorbitant fees...
People are funny.
It's the SELLERS who call it feebay. The BUYERS, not so much.
Are you saying sellers aren't people?
C'mon you're just being silly. You know in your heart what I said is true. Why not just admit it? ebay is GREAT for buyers, especially buyers who are good at separating the wheat from the chaff.
I don't want to be Harsche, but you leave me no choice. You made a point that wasn't a counterpoint to something i said and you want me to agree with it? Yes, the people who complain about eBay fees are mostly sellers. But that doesn't make them right. There is NO RETAIL setting that can match ebay which is why they are still number one.
I've been almost exclusively an eBay seller for 28 years. So don't tell me ebay is only good for buyers. If that were true, there would be no buyers because there would be no sellers
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I noticed tonight that TONS of common Saints in low-60's grades (even with OGHs of various types)....all went off at $3,500 hammer prices. With the BP....$4,200. Which happens to pretty much be 96.75% (Saint gold content) at $4,330 spot gold.
And yet they are constantly calling it "feebay" and talking about the exorbitant fees...
People are funny.
It's the SELLERS who call it feebay. The BUYERS, not so much.
Are you saying sellers aren't people?
C'mon you're just being silly. You know in your heart what I said is true. Why not just admit it? ebay is GREAT for buyers, especially buyers who are good at separating the wheat from the chaff.
I don't want to be Harsche, but you leave me no choice. You made a point that wasn't a counterpoint to shutting i said and you want me to agree with it? Yes, the people who complain about eBay fees are mostly sellers. But that doesn't make them right. There is NO RETAIL setting that can match ebay which is why they are still number one.
I've been almost exclusively an eBay seller for 28 years. So don't tell me ebay is only good for buyers. If that were true, there would be no buyers because there would be no sellers
ebay is GREAT, not just good, for buyers who have learned how to separate the wheat from the chaff is what I said. The problem on ebay for the seller is that the seller, more often than not, has to ask stiff retail price on his quality coin that he had to pay up for to acquire, to get anything even resembling a profit for it. Sellers of, shall we say less than quality coins, don't really have this problem that the quality coin seller has. There are plenty of savvy buyers on ebay but there are also way too many shlock sellers there too.
Einstein’s view of God was non-traditional and pantheistic, focusing on the harmony, order, and intelligibility of the cosmos rather than a personal deity. His quotes reveal a profound respect for the universe’s mysteries, a belief in rational laws, and a moral philosophy grounded in compassion and understanding, bridging science and spirituality.
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
@GoldFinger1969 said:
I noticed tonight that TONS of common Saints in low-60's grades (even with OGHs of various types)....all went off at $3,500 hammer prices. With the BP....$4,200. Which happens to pretty much be 96.75% (Saint gold content) at $4,330 spot gold.
Wow......
Happens every week. Same with foreign gold, look at sovereigns in the Thursday foregin coin auctions. It sells for bullion price with the BP because PEOPLE KNOW HOW TO BACK OUT THE BP FROM THEIR BIDS, regardless of what some here believe.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@jmlanzaf said:
Happens every week. Same with foreign gold, look at sovereigns in the Thursday foregin coin auctions. It sells for >bullion price with the BP because PEOPLE KNOW HOW TO BACK OUT THE BP FROM THEIR BIDS, regardless of what >some here believe.
I just hadn't seen it like this in a LONG time...granted, I haven't been as dilligent in watching the weekly auctions in the last year or so....but I couldn't remember so many right on the nose and the same amount with that BP backed out even with all of them being in various OGHs.
Of course, given the coins were common, not unexpected given that buyers had alternatives as opposed to more difficult-to-obtain Saints.
What I want to know is....why are the SELLERS taking $3,500 (or a bit less) instead of going through other channels to get closer to the real retail gold melt price of ~$4,200 ?
@jmlanzaf said:
Happens every week. Same with foreign gold, look at sovereigns in the Thursday foregin coin auctions. It sells for >bullion price with the BP because PEOPLE KNOW HOW TO BACK OUT THE BP FROM THEIR BIDS, regardless of what >some here believe.
I just hadn't seen it like this in a LONG time...granted, I haven't been as dilligent in watching the weekly auctions in the last year or so....but I couldn't remember so many right on the nose and the same amount with that BP backed out even with all of them being in various OGHs.
Of course, given the coins were common, not unexpected given that buyers had alternatives as opposed to more difficult-to-obtain Saints.
What I want to know is....why are the SELLERS taking $3,500 (or a bit less) instead of going through other channels to get closer to the real retail gold melt price of ~$4,200 ?
It defies logic. I can easily get spot minus 3% for my less desirable pre 1933 gold. Granted, I live in California and have multiple options but still getting scalped $400-500 is excessive.
@jmlanzaf said:
Happens every week. Same with foreign gold, look at sovereigns in the Thursday foregin coin auctions. It sells for >bullion price with the BP because PEOPLE KNOW HOW TO BACK OUT THE BP FROM THEIR BIDS, regardless of what >some here believe.
I just hadn't seen it like this in a LONG time...granted, I haven't been as dilligent in watching the weekly auctions in the last year or so....but I couldn't remember so many right on the nose and the same amount with that BP backed out even with all of them being in various OGHs.
Of course, given the coins were common, not unexpected given that buyers had alternatives as opposed to more difficult-to-obtain Saints.
What I want to know is....why are the SELLERS taking $3,500 (or a bit less) instead of going through other channels to get closer to the real retail gold melt price of ~$4,200 ?
It defies logic. I can easily get spot minus 3% for my less desirable pre 1933 gold. Granted, I live in California and have multiple options but still getting scalped $400-500 is excessive.
You're assuming those are consignments. They are probably coins owned by Heritage outright. Heritage would advise consignors against putting bullion coins into an auction. Of course, some sellers take a chance anyway. But i think most of those coins are house owned.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@jmlanzaf said:
Happens every week. Same with foreign gold, look at sovereigns in the Thursday foregin coin auctions. It sells for >bullion price with the BP because PEOPLE KNOW HOW TO BACK OUT THE BP FROM THEIR BIDS, regardless of what >some here believe.
I just hadn't seen it like this in a LONG time...granted, I haven't been as dilligent in watching the weekly auctions in the last year or so....but I couldn't remember so many right on the nose and the same amount with that BP backed out even with all of them being in various OGHs.
Of course, given the coins were common, not unexpected given that buyers had alternatives as opposed to more difficult-to-obtain Saints.
What I want to know is....why are the SELLERS taking $3,500 (or a bit less) instead of going through other channels to get closer to the real retail gold melt price of ~$4,200 ?
The coins are probably owned by Heritage outright.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Comments
Nada
Just my 2C but I will buy auction coins from dealers 1-3 years after the fact for less money. I have numerous examples of top quality coins which I paid much less for (ie Newman). All the dealers I know which have great reputations work on 10% or less buying and selling. They have already evaluated the coins and then I can take the next step in evlauating the purcharse. Work with the best dealers and auctions can't compete.
But....I love looking at the auction catalogues in hand. I have decades of catalogues I peruse from time to time and it's enjoyable.
Interesting concept. So if your house is robbed / coin collection stolen, and if you even chose the call the cops, they’d ask what’s the value, and you’d say zero.
Of course not. I said "For financial planning purposes...".
Numismatic auction houses are struggling. I can't blame any of them for increasing their prices. The Post Office does this. Like Heritage, I am still amazed a first class letter can arrived just about anywhere for what? .35 cents? So cheap!
They are???
As long as they keep their shipping costs so reasonable. Oh, wait that's GC too.
Unless this was meant to be a joke and I missed it, I don't believe anything you wrote is even close to factual. Heritage isn't struggling and first class stamps cost 78 cents.
Philippians 4:4-7
I would venture to say that less than 10% of HA's coins sold (and probably less than 3%) are "once in a decade" or "once in 5 year" type coins that you pay whatever you have to for if you want them. For the purposes of this thread I think those cases can be ignored.
It's the SELLERS who call it feebay. The BUYERS, not so much.
Einstein’s view of God was non-traditional and pantheistic, focusing on the harmony, order, and intelligibility of the cosmos rather than a personal deity. His quotes reveal a profound respect for the universe’s mysteries, a belief in rational laws, and a moral philosophy grounded in compassion and understanding, bridging science and spirituality.
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
Okay, I Googled what you stated and yes, you are correct. I use the Forever Stamps and thought they were right around 35 cents each.
Regarding the struggling comment. If Heritage was already making a great living with the prior fees then why would they raise them?
You never can find coin that appeals to you on ebay in your specialized collecting area that has been certified by a big 3 TPG? I mean, I've bought some really nice coins for my specialized collections on ebay, coins both raw and slabbed. I've found that the key to successful coin buying on ebay is to find the good sellers, not necessarily the lowest price sellers. It's entirely possible to buy quality coins on ebay that don't cost an arm and a leg. Diligence in the hunt is important to successful coin buying on ebay.
Einstein’s view of God was non-traditional and pantheistic, focusing on the harmony, order, and intelligibility of the cosmos rather than a personal deity. His quotes reveal a profound respect for the universe’s mysteries, a belief in rational laws, and a moral philosophy grounded in compassion and understanding, bridging science and spirituality.
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
Everyone wants to get a pay increase, year over year. Everyone wants to get bonuses.
A business, and its leaders, want to keep, or increase, their profit margins.
So, how do you do that?
Well, you sell more. If you can sell a lot more without increasing your expenses a lot, that may work and tide you over with the increases you want.
If you aren't getting the same volume, or at least aren't getting the same profit that you feel you need, and aren't getting more consignments that make up for it, then you increase your BP in this case.
It's a business. They have their projections they want to hit and are going to do what they feel they need to in order to hit them.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
HA is trying to fatten up its profits for a PE buyout. The principals want to retire and cash out.
Thank you for this. Up to this point I thought my "postage stamps are 35 cents" was the most embarrassing comment.
@sanddollar said:
Regarding the struggling comment. If Heritage was already making a great living with the prior fees then why would they raise them.
Because they can.
I’m beginning to think heritage only wants once in a lifetime chance coins, and doesn’t wanna deal with the under $100,000 dreck. If they get 50-100 of these type of auctions per year, who needs a 1oz gold eagle in ms70 that the seller is going to net melt minus 22% to start with?
Layoff most of their staff, let AI write their descriptions on the unique coins, let the bigwigs reap the profits for the few dozen million dollar auctions they do.
You never can find coin that appeals to you on ebay in your specialized collecting area that has been certified by a big 3 TPG?
Even though I check it every day, I haven't bought anything for my primary collection off eBay in five years. Although, over that same time period, I have spent over six figures with Heritage and mid-five figures with Stacks and Great Collections.
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
HA is trying to fatten up its profits for a PE buyout. The principals want to retire and cash out.
A few years ago, Steve Ivy told me his goal is to live to be a 100-year-old coin dealer. He's not going anywhere. He loves the action too much.
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
This fact is a huge "missed opportunity" for many, especially for those who balk at the rising auction BP's. I'm surprised the BST is not used more frequently. Is there a particular reason why it's not that popular?? Has it gotten a "bad rap" unbeknownst to me?
WTB: Barber Quarters XF
I've done hundreds of great transactions on the BST but you have to be careful. Only buy from well-established members and get some references if in doubt. Don't hesitate to buy from new members here but only if they ship the coins for examination before payment is sent.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
To be honest, the change in Heritage charges will play a very small role in my current collecting plans. The $29 dollar minimum is exactly what it was before the change in percentage was made. 99% of my recent and more than likely 99% of my future auction items fall right around that window. I only need make a slight adjustment if the coin goes for more than $150. I doubt most collectors at my level are really going to care that much. James
I so wish this would take off, but as a buyer, there's nothing on there I want. Seems like just modern collectibles, MS slabs and bullion type coins. Please put a nice selection of crunchy Colonials and 1790s US stuff out there and I'm all over it!
It's a little different when the income is a commission based on sale price. When you start a business with that kind of pricing model you figure out what commission the market will bear and how much it costs to run your operation and your profit is the difference. The only real way to increase income is increase volume or increase the vig. HA's move signifies that they either think that what they offer is so superior that sellers will pay the higher fee or there just isn't enough competition.
I'd never send a coin to a collector (not dealer) without receiving payment first. They can pay by Paypal to protect themself and depending upon the coin, I'd agree in advance to a return.
What is meant for GC when the phrase "hard close" is used ?
Been years since bought/sold on Heritage
It's been years since I've had a HotPocket and a Dr Pepper, so yes, I feel you.
Clearly it’s been years since you’ve bought a postage stamp too.
Simple ... A lot on GC close the bidding at a specific time while others closes when not more bids arrive after the Auctioneer calls last call.
OMG ... My Mother was Right about Everything!
I wake up with a Good Attitude Every Day. Then … Idiots Happen!
@GoldFinger1969 . What they are talking about is how on Great Collections the auction counts down to a final second and then that is it. Whoever has highest bid wins. If you ever follow a Heritage auction live they have a bidding window that counts down the final 4 or 5 seconds. If anyone places a valid cut bid and or a full bid the clock countdown starts all over again. sometimes the clock restarts multipl;e times. James
Are you saying sellers aren't people?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
There is that much action with coins under $150?
@DisneyFan . I doubt it. My usual collecting interests fall in the under $500 range but my personal life dictates I pursue a slightly lower level of coin values. james
@PerryHall said: Don't forget that the BP is 0% on the BST Forum since you are cutting out the middleman.
Posted way back on page one, this seems to make sense but not always. I offered items there several months ago at very reasonable prices and got no response. I went to Stack’s where I paid my 5% and the buyers paid their 20% and I did very well. Most significantly, one item I offered at the BST for $2,300 sold at Stack’s for $3,400 to me.
I understand the logic expressed by members who figure the BP into their high bid and stop, I can’t see them winning many premium items.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
Don't forget that the BST Forum is FREE so if a coin doesn't sell there, it didn't cost you anything. Obviously, not every coin will find a buyer on the BST but it never hurts to try if you know what you need to get for your coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
It would have "hurt" $1100 worth. Apparently it's not free...
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
How do you get 5% seller fee at Stacks ?
That's very appealing
As far as selling on BST here I forget to look often. And I find it odd but routine it seems that items sold thread gets emptied, devoid of info. I did buy an item once, excellent experience and seller left images and text up while it shipped.
Never bid against dealers and I have purchsed same items > @PerryHall said:
C'mon you're just being silly. You know in your heart what I said is true. Why not just admit it? ebay is GREAT for buyers, especially buyers who are good at separating the wheat from the chaff.
Einstein’s view of God was non-traditional and pantheistic, focusing on the harmony, order, and intelligibility of the cosmos rather than a personal deity. His quotes reveal a profound respect for the universe’s mysteries, a belief in rational laws, and a moral philosophy grounded in compassion and understanding, bridging science and spirituality.
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
>
Yes, and the buyer also pays a fee.
I don't want to be Harsche, but you leave me no choice. You made a point that wasn't a counterpoint to something i said and you want me to agree with it? Yes, the people who complain about eBay fees are mostly sellers. But that doesn't make them right. There is NO RETAIL setting that can match ebay which is why they are still number one.
I've been almost exclusively an eBay seller for 28 years. So don't tell me ebay is only good for buyers. If that were true, there would be no buyers because there would be no sellers
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My favorite & the 1st place I look for something.
Zero buyer's premium
https://www.davidlawrence.com
(not affiliated)
My Saint Set
I noticed tonight that TONS of common Saints in low-60's grades (even with OGHs of various types)....all went off at $3,500 hammer prices. With the BP....$4,200. Which happens to pretty much be 96.75% (Saint gold content) at $4,330 spot gold.
Wow......
ebay is GREAT, not just good, for buyers who have learned how to separate the wheat from the chaff is what I said. The problem on ebay for the seller is that the seller, more often than not, has to ask stiff retail price on his quality coin that he had to pay up for to acquire, to get anything even resembling a profit for it. Sellers of, shall we say less than quality coins, don't really have this problem that the quality coin seller has. There are plenty of savvy buyers on ebay but there are also way too many shlock sellers there too.
Einstein’s view of God was non-traditional and pantheistic, focusing on the harmony, order, and intelligibility of the cosmos rather than a personal deity. His quotes reveal a profound respect for the universe’s mysteries, a belief in rational laws, and a moral philosophy grounded in compassion and understanding, bridging science and spirituality.
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
Happens every week. Same with foreign gold, look at sovereigns in the Thursday foregin coin auctions. It sells for bullion price with the BP because PEOPLE KNOW HOW TO BACK OUT THE BP FROM THEIR BIDS, regardless of what some here believe.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I just hadn't seen it like this in a LONG time...granted, I haven't been as dilligent in watching the weekly auctions in the last year or so....but I couldn't remember so many right on the nose and the same amount with that BP backed out even with all of them being in various OGHs.
Of course, given the coins were common, not unexpected given that buyers had alternatives as opposed to more difficult-to-obtain Saints.
What I want to know is....why are the SELLERS taking $3,500 (or a bit less) instead of going through other channels to get closer to the real retail gold melt price of ~$4,200 ?
It defies logic. I can easily get spot minus 3% for my less desirable pre 1933 gold. Granted, I live in California and have multiple options but still getting scalped $400-500 is excessive.
You're assuming those are consignments. They are probably coins owned by Heritage outright. Heritage would advise consignors against putting bullion coins into an auction. Of course, some sellers take a chance anyway. But i think most of those coins are house owned.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The coins are probably owned by Heritage outright.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.